posted
—PN2 clade (E3) bearers in the vicinity of the Sudanese-Central African Republic -Ugandan-Kenyan region give rise to E3a ~ between 21 and 18 ky ago [pending additional or new info]; E3b-M35* would have likely arose relatively earlier than E3a*[as evidenced by its near absence in some the populations that carry this], sometime prior to the Ogolian and the LGM period. At this time, it was likely the M78 derivative that came about ~ between 19 and 15 ky ago. It was also likely during this period, that some E3b-M35 variants spilled over to the "southwest Asia", which would be identified as E-M34. The E-M78* likely arose somewhere in the bidirectional-migration route between Northeast and sub-Saharan East Africa; this location was likely in the region straddling upper Egypt and Sudan of the eastern Sahara, amongst earlier E-M35 migrants from sub-Saharan East Africa. These M78 bearers were increasingly pressured to move further south due to progressive aridity, possibly as far as Uganda-Kenya and/or Tanzanian general region.
Europeans don't carry the ancestral clades bur "super subs"
Y-DNA haplogroup E probably arose in Northeast Africa, if one looks only at the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration. Today E* is found predominantly in Ethiopia. E1 and E2 are found in Northeast Africa, but surveys show E1 may actually be more prevalent in Mali than in its presumed region of origin. E4 is a minor subclade. E3 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two important sub-lineages, E3a and E3b. E3a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern Africa to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion. E3a is the most common lineage among African Americans. E3b probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. E3b clusters are seen today in Western Europe, the Balkans, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa. The Cruciani articles (references and links below) are indispensable resources for understanding the structure of this complicated haplogroup.
A caution on clade labels: Because knowledge of this branch of the Y-chromosome tree has advanced so quickly in the last few years, different clade labels can be found in current use for the same SNP-determined branch of the tree. For example, it is still common to see E3b1 and E3b2 used to distinguish between the M78 and M81 branches of the tree though greater resolution is now possible.
Also, STR-based distinctions in the M78 branch at one time permitted broad distinctions of alpha, beta, gamma and delta clusters. With the new SNPs reported in the 2006 and 2007 Cruciani studies, it has become possible to see that the alpha cluster, which is widely distributed in Europe, is strongly correlated with the V13 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a2; the beta cluster is strongly correlated with the V65 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a4; the gamma cluster correlates with the V32 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a1a; and the delta cluster tends to correlate with the V22 SNP (E3b1a3) though it includes some V12 haplotypes (E3b1a1) as well.
Paragroup E-M78 represents 74.5% of haplogroup E*, the highest frequencies observed in Masalit and Fur populations.
quote:
"The TMRCA of the European E-V13 chromosomes turns out to be 4.0–4.7 ky (under 2 different demographic expansion scenarios, see Subjects and Methods; 95% CI 3.5–4.6 ky and 4.1–5.3 ky, respectively)."
"Trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from northern Africa to Europe (mainly in the last 13.0 ky)"
"A single clade within E-M78 (E-V13) highlights a range expansion in the Bronze Age of southeastern Europe, which is also detected by haplogroup J-M12. "
Tracing past human male movements in northern/eastern Africa and western Eurasia: new clues from Y-chromosomal haplogroups E-M78 and J-M12.
AuthorsCruciani F, et al. Mol Biol Evol. 2007 Jun;24(6):1300-11. Epub 2007 Mar 10.
The downstreams.
Albania 27.5% Greece 27% Serbia 24% Macedonia 23% Cyprus 20% Bulgaria 16% Bosnia-Herzegovina 14.5% Portugal 12.5% Italy 11% Turkey 11% Austria 9% Belarus 9% Slovakia 9% Switzerland 9% Ukraine 8% France 7% Croatia 6% Czech Republic 6% Romania 6% Spain 6% Germany 5.5% Netherlands 4.5% Belgium 4% Poland 3.5% Slovenia 3% Denmark 2.5% Estonia 2.5% Russia 2.5% England 2% Ireland 2% Wales 2% Scotland 1.5% Finland 1% Lithuania 1% Norway 1% Sweden 1% Latvia 0.5% Iceland 0%
Subtyping of Y-chromosomal haplogroup E-M78 (E1b1b1a) by SNP
Here, we describe a system for the molecular dissection of haplogroup E-M78 (E1b1b1a), consisting of multiplex polymerase chain reaction and minisequencing of M78 and nine population-informative Y-SNPs (M148, M224, V12, V13, V19, V22, V27, V32, V65) in a single reaction.
E1b1b1a, subhaplogrouping for population-of-origin prediction, the distribution of E-M78 and its derived variants was determined in an Italian population sample (n = 326).
quote:Europeans and Eurasians are cold adapted, this is no secret the info is out there.
Not true.
The crural index of Yugoslavians or Serbs is higher or more 'tropical' than African-Americans and Khoisans.
What was your responce again to the study which showed this?
That Yugoslavs are ''black'' admixed.
LOL...
Irony that Jari goes around calling everyone else a troll, except you.
You are so predictable. lol
Lemme' repost this for ya'!
But of course, "some African Americans" have a relative high dosage of cold adapted West European admixture. Which makes it self-explanatory. Khoisans don't life in a tropical climate but in a steppe zone. The Southern tip of South Africa even has snow during the winter.
And on the other hand...we have "some whites" with tropical sub -Saharan African admixture. Which makes it self-explanatory.
So it is for your Yugoslavians with tropical sub-Saharan admixture.
Logic follows, in order to have tropical limbs you need to have tropical anscestry. You can't grow "tropical adapted limbs" in a cold region. Hence cold adapted limbs.
Simply put, in understandable ways for you, they have n*gger blood.
Here, we describe a system for the molecular dissection of haplogroup E-M78 (E1b1b1a), consisting of multiplex polymerase chain reaction and minisequencing of M78 and nine population-informative Y-SNPs (M148, M224, V12, V13, V19, V22, V27, V32, V65) in a single reaction.
Phylogeny of Y-chromosome haplogroups and their frequencies (%) in the examined populations. Nomenclature and haplogroup labelling according to the Y Chromosome Consortium (http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu/) updated according to Karafet et al. 32 *Paragroups: Y chromosomes not defined by any phylogenetic downstream-reported and -examined mutation. aIntrapopulation haplogroup diversity. The terminal markers of haplogroups E-V12 and E-V13 (V32 and V27, respectively) were typed but did not show any variation.
Frequency (left) and variance (right) distributions of the main Y-chromosome haplogroups, I-M423, E-V13 and J-M241, observed in this survey. Frequency data are reported in Figure 2, variance data are relative to the examined microsatellite reported in the Supplementary Table S2. We acknowledge that interpolated spatial frequency surfaces should be viewed with caution because of sample size.41 Data from this study. Frequency and variance values were assigned to sample-collection places (dots). Population samples (geographically close) with less than five observations were pooled and the corresponding variance assigned to a middle position of the pooled sample locations. +Data from the literature.13, 23, 27, 28, 36, 45, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54
Y-DNA haplogroup E probably arose in Northeast Africa, if one looks only at the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration. Today E* is found predominantly in Ethiopia. E1 and E2 are found in Northeast Africa, but surveys show E1 may actually be more prevalent in Mali than in its presumed region of origin. E4 is a minor subclade. E3 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two important sub-lineages, E3a and E3b. E3a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern Africa to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion. E3a is the most common lineage among African Americans. E3b probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. E3b clusters are seen today in Western Europe, the Balkans, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa. The Cruciani articles (references and links below) are indispensable resources for understanding the structure of this complicated haplogroup.
A caution on clade labels: Because knowledge of this branch of the Y-chromosome tree has advanced so quickly in the last few years, different clade labels can be found in current use for the same SNP-determined branch of the tree. For example, it is still common to see E3b1 and E3b2 used to distinguish between the M78 and M81 branches of the tree though greater resolution is now possible. Also, STR-based distinctions in the M78 branch at one time permitted broad distinctions of alpha, beta, gamma and delta clusters. With the new SNPs reported in the 2006 and 2007 Cruciani studies, it has become possible to see that the alpha cluster, which is widely distributed in Europe, is strongly correlated with the V13 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a2; the beta cluster is strongly correlated with the V65 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a4; the gamma cluster correlates with the V32 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a1a; and the delta cluster tends to correlate with the V22 SNP (E3b1a3) though it includes some V12 haplotypes (E3b1a1) as well.
quote:
The third branch, the clade E3, defined by the mutation P2, is the only one that has also been observed in Europe and in western Asia, where it has generally been found at frequencies !25%
On the basis of the previously published phylogeny (Y Chromosome Consortium 2002; Jobling and Tyler- Smith 2003), the mutations M2/P1/M180, on the one hand, and M35/M215, on the other, further subdivide E3 in two monophyletic haplogroups: E3a and E3b. Both haplogroups are frequent in Africa (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002), although, to date, only E3b has also been observed in Europe (Semino et al. 2000) and western Asia (Underhill et al. 2000; Cinniog ̆ lu et al. 2004). Recently, it has been proposed that E3b originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded into the Near East and northern Africa at the end of the Pleis- tocene (Underhill et al. 2001)
(Hammer et al. 2000, 2001; Semino et al. 2000; Scozzari et al. 2001; Cinniog ̆lu et al. 2004).
Khaled K Abu-Amero et al.
quote:Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian PeninsulaFor the J, the West (37.5%) and Southeast (25.7%) regions have higher frequencies than the Central (17.6%) and North (16.3%) regions. Heterogeneity in the whole Peninsula is also significant .... being Saudi Arabia (21%) and Qatar (17.8%) the two countries with the highest J frequencies.
However,
This is mainly due to the comparatively high frequency of sub-Saharan lineages in Yemen (38%) compared to Oman-Qatar (16%) and to Saudi Arabia-UAE (10%). Most probably, the higher frequencies shown in southern countries reflect their greater proximity to Africa, separated only by the Bab al Mandab strait. However, when attending to the relative contribution of the different L haplogroups, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Yemen are highly similar for their L3 (34%), L2 (36%) and L0 (21%) frequencies whereas in Oman and UAE the bulk of L lineages belongs to L3 (72%).
Two potential migratory routes followed by modern humans to colonize Eurasia from Africa have been proposed. These are the two natural passageways that connect both continents: the northern route through the Sinai Peninsula and the southern route across the Bab al Mandab strait.
Recent archaeological and genetic evidence have favored a unique southern coastal route. Under this scenario, the study of the population genetic structure of the Arabian Peninsula, the first step out of Africa, to search for primary genetic links between Africa and Eurasia, is crucial.
The haploid and maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) molecule has been the most used genetic marker to identify and to relate lineages with clear geographic origins, as the African Ls and the Eurasian M and N that have a common root with the Africans L3.
"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
Under these suppositions, the Arabian Peninsula, as an obliged step between East Africa and South Asia, has gained crucial importance, and indeed several mtDNA studies have recently been published for this region [30-32]. However, it seems that the bulk of the Arab mtDNA lineages have northern Neolithic or more recent Asian or African origins....
The recent resolutions of the CDEF-M168 tripartite structure to the bipartite DE-YAP and CF-P143 [16, 31] extends the conversation regarding the early successful colonization of Eurasia. While several scenarios remain potentially possible the most parsimonious model is the most prudent. This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula, could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CF-P143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa. One DE-YAP* ancestor would have spread to Asia and evolved to haplogroup D while another DE-YAP* returned to northeast Africa and evolved into hg E. It is noteworthy that DE-YAP* has been detected at low frequency in Africa [37]. Again, this hypothesis has its mtDNA counterpart as it is well documented that, in the Palaeolithic, at least three clades (X1, U6, M1) derived respectively from the three main Eurasian macrohaplogroups (N, R, M) came back to North Africa from Asia [38-42].
The similarity of patterns of different mutants indicates some secondary expansions. It is also interesting to sum the distributions of different haplogroups descending from the same mutation, as for example D and E, which both descend from DE-YAP, the first mutation that split into the E branch that perhaps returned to Africa (or arose there), whereas the other branch, D, is found today mainly in the Himalayas and Japan.
quote:
Khaled K Abu-Amero et al.
Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
Two potential migratory routes followed by modern humans to colonize Eurasia from Africa have been proposed. These are the two natural passageways that connect both continents: the northern route through the Sinai Peninsula and the southern route across the Bab al Mandab strait.
Recent archaeological and genetic evidence have favored a unique southern coastal route. Under this scenario, the study of the population genetic structure of the Arabian Peninsula, the first step out of Africa, to search for primary genetic links between Africa and Eurasia, is crucial.
The haploid and maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) molecule has been the most used genetic marker to identify and to relate lineages with clear geographic origins, as the African Ls and the Eurasian M and N that have a common root with the Africans L3.
"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
quote:
Viktor Černý1 et al.
Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
Quote:
We use high-resolution genetic data to investigate the genetic and linguistic support for hypotheses concerning the population history in the Chad Basin. The mitochondrial L3f3 haplogroup is found almost exclusively in Chadic speaking populations and its TMRCA corresponds well with archaeological and linguistic dates of the proposed migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists from East or North East Africa to the Chad Basin.
Haplogroup L3f is defined by the coding variants
3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.
..."The youngest clade, L3f1b2, seems to be more frequent in the Middle East. L3f1a seems to be older (37,700 ± 10,000 YBP) than its sister sub-haplogroup L3f1b and is also less diversified. A few samples from Chad belong to these sub-haplogroups: two to L3f1a and one to L3f1b3."
"We then estimated pairwise FST genetic distances between populations (Additional file 4) and displayed these on a MDS plot (Figure 3). Interesting results are immediately evident – while Chadic populations form a relatively homogeneous group, the Cushitic populations split into two completely different clusters. The first group is composed of Horn of African populations, such as Ethiopian and Somali Cushitic populations, which are close to neighbouring Ethiopian Semitic speaking groups and relatively close also to Chadic people from the Chad Basin. The second Cushitic group is composed by more southern groups from Tanzania, i.e. Burunge and Iraqw, who occupy outlier positions even within the Afro-Asiatic MDS plot. In the MDS plot, geography is more strongly associated with genetic distance than is linguistic affiliation.
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The recent resolutions of the CDEF-M168 tripartite structure to the bipartite DE-YAP and CF-P143 [16, 31] extends the conversation regarding the early successful colonization of Eurasia. While several scenarios remain potentially possible the most parsimonious model is the most prudent. This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula, could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CF-P143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa. One DE-YAP* ancestor would have spread to Asia and evolved to haplogroup D while another DE-YAP* returned to northeast Africa and evolved into hg E. It is noteworthy that DE-YAP* has been detected at low frequency in Africa [37]. Again, this hypothesis has its mtDNA counterpart as it is well documented that, in the Palaeolithic, at least three clades (X1, U6, M1) derived respectively from the three main Eurasian macrohaplogroups (N, R, M) came back to North Africa from Asia [38-42].
The similarity of patterns of different mutants indicates some secondary expansions. It is also interesting to sum the distributions of different haplogroups descending from the same mutation, as for example D and E, which both descend from DE-YAP, the first mutation that split into the E branch that perhaps returned to Africa (or arose there), whereas the other branch, D, is found today mainly in the Himalayas and Japan.
Stanley H. Ambrose Department of Anthropology, University of Illinois,
Journal of Human Evolution (1998) 34, 623–651
Late Pleistocene human population bottlenecks, volcanic winter, and differentiation of modern humans
The cause, timing and location of bottleneck releases
If population release was due to the natural increase (logistic population growth) of disease-resistant populations following epidemics, then growth could have been relatively rapid, a function of the intrinsic rate of increase of disease-resistant popula-tions, and the duration of the bottleneck relatively brief. Its date could have been at any time, but would presumably have been relatively soon after the bottleneck. Release could have occurred wherever disease-resistant individuals survived.
If release was due to natural increase in founder population size after dispersing across land bridges or narrow straits (Lahr, 1996; Lahr & Foley, 1994) then release dates would vary from 70–50 ka for the early Australasian dispersal, to 45 ka for the second Levantine dispersal. In the epidemic and dispersal scenarios the dura-tion of the bottleneck would have been brief.
If bottlenecks were caused by the cold, arid climate of isotope stage 4 then their duration was approximately 10 ka and release could have been as late as 60 ka.
The failure of early modern humans to survive in the Levant during the early last glacial implies they were not yet physiologically and/or behaviorally well-adapted to cold climates and Palearctic environments, or at least not as well-adapted as neanderthals.
The Multiple Dispersals model (Figure 3) proposes that a population bottleneck occurred during oxygen isotope stage 6, when cold, dry climates caused isolation and differentiation of populations within Africa.
If bottlenecks were caused by the cold, arid climate of isotope stage 4 then their duration was approximately 10 ka and release could have been as late as 60 ka.
Global climate change could have reduced populations during the early last ice age, oxygen isotope stage 4
... As noted above, the replacement of modern humans by neander- thals in the Levant, suggests African modern humans were rather poorly-adapted to cold climates.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The recent resolutions of the CDEF-M168 tripartite structure to the bipartite DE-YAP and CF-P143 [16, 31] extends the conversation regarding the early successful colonization of Eurasia. While several scenarios remain potentially possible the most parsimonious model is the most prudent. This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula, could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CF-P143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa. One DE-YAP* ancestor would have spread to Asia and evolved to haplogroup D while another DE-YAP* returned to northeast Africa and evolved into hg E. It is noteworthy that DE-YAP* has been detected at low frequency in Africa [37]. Again, this hypothesis has its mtDNA counterpart as it is well documented that, in the Palaeolithic, at least three clades (X1, U6, M1) derived respectively from the three main Eurasian macrohaplogroups (N, R, M) came back to North Africa from Asia [38-42].
The similarity of patterns of different mutants indicates some secondary expansions. It is also interesting to sum the distributions of different haplogroups descending from the same mutation, as for example D and E, which both descend from DE-YAP, the first mutation that split into the E branch that perhaps returned to Africa (or arose there), whereas the other branch, D, is found today mainly in the Himalayas and Japan.
BJMG 11/2 (2008) 25-30 10.2478/v10034-008-0030-0
ALU INSERTION POLYMORPHISMS IN POPULATIONS OF THE SOUTH CAUCASUS
Litvinov S* et al.
Although it was not possible to determine a contribution of Neolithic farmers to the Caucasian gene pool, the principal component analysis showed clear differences between these populations and those of Europe, Siberia and Asia. No evidence of correlation between genetic and linguistic data in our populations was disclosed.
Armenians are a separate ethnic group, which originated from Neolithic tribes of the Armenian Uplands. In the 12th- 11th centuries BC...
However, we cannot exclude a Neolithic contribution to the contemporary gene pool. The possible reason for the absence of the frequency distribution gradient can be genetic drift, reinforced by isolation that could conceal the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasus populations [1,21].
While an Alu insertion marker does not have enough power of resolution to assess the contribution of the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasian gene pool, it clearly separates both South and North Caucasus populations (except Karanogays) from Siberian and Asian populations.
quote: C.L. Brace (2005): "If the late Pleistocene Natufian sample from Israel is the source from which that Neolithic spread was derived, there was clearly a sub-Saharan African element present of almost equal importance as the Late Prehistoric Eurasian element."
"From the Mesolithic to the early Neolithic period different lines of evidence support an out-of-Africa Mesolithic migration to the Levant by northeastern African groups that had biological affinities with sub-Saharan populations. From a genetic point of view, several recent genetic studies have shown that sub-Sabaran genetic lineages (affiliated with the Y-chromosome PN2 clade; Underhill et al. 2001) have spread through Egypt into the Near East, the Mediterranean area, and, for some lineages, as far north as Turkey (E3b-M35 Y lineage; Cinniogclu et al. 2004; Luis et al. 2004), probably during several dispersal episodes since the Mesolithic (Cinniogelu et al. 2004; King et al. 2008; Lucotte and Mercier 2003; Luis et al. 2004; Quintana-Murci et al. 1999; Semino et al. 2004; Underhill et al. 2001). This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa, from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene, and diffused northward to the Levant and Anatolia beginning in the Mesolithic.
Indeed, the rare and incomplete Paleolithic to early Neolithic skeletal specimens found in Egypt - such as the 33,000-year-old Nazlet Khater specimen (Pinhasi and Semai 2000), the Wadi Kubbaniya skeleton from the late Paleolithic site in the upper Nile valley (Wendorf et al. 1986), the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt (Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens.
This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972; Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005), which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations). These results support the hypothesis that some of the Paleolithic-early Holocene populations from northeast Africa were probably descendents of sub-Saharan ancestral populations...... This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005).
In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005), in concordance with a process of demie diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
Nature 249, 120 - 123 (10 May 1974); doi:10.1038/249120a0
Barbed bone points from Central Sudan and the age of the “Early Khartoum” tradition
D. ADAMSON*, J. D. CLARK† & M. A. J. WILLIAMS‡
*School of Biological Sciences, Macquarie University, New South Wales 2113, Australia †Department of Anthropology, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720 ‡School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, New South Wales 2113, Australia
Barbed bone points, typical of those from the early Holocene settlement of “Early Khartoum”, have been found at three sites along the White Nile, south of Khartoum. The form of the fragments and the stratigraphy of the sites throw light on the environment and technology of the early settlements along this part of the Nile.
The site of Beisamoun is located in the western margins of the Hula Basin, c. 10 km south of Qiryat Shemona. A moderate Mediterranean climate and water resources in the immediate vicinity of the site, such as the ‘Enan and Agamon springs, were one of the major factors for establishing prehistoric settlements in this region, one of which was ‘Ein Mallaha, a major Natufian site in the Levant.
quote:Originally posted by huy60: Can you try to debunk each of these quotes?
From “Egypt Under the Pharaohs: A History Derived Entirely from the Monuments – Part One” (Heinrich Brugsch Bey)
quote:“The form of the skull – so at least the elder school teaches – as well as the proportions of the several parts of the body, as these have been determined from examining a great number of mummies, are held to indicate a connection with the Caucasian family of mankind.” (p. 8)
“The Egyptian language – which has been preserved on the monuments of the oldest time, as well as in the late-Christian manuscripts of the Copts, the successors of the people of the Pharaohs – in no way shows any trace of a derivation and descent from the African families of speech [...] the primitive roots and the essential elements of the Egyptian grammar point to such an intimate connection with the Indo-Germanic and Semitic languages” (p. 9)
“The first view of the Ethiopian monuments at once carries the conviction, that we can recognise in them no special quality beyond the rudest conception and the most imperfect execution of a style of art originally Egyptian. The most clumsy imitation of Egyptian attainments in all that relates to science and the arts, appears as the acme of the intellectual progress and the artistic development in Ethiopia.” (p. 11)
"The great mixture of tribes in their many branches [...] have on the monuments the common name of Nahasu. In the coloured representations they appear of a black or dark-brown complexion, with unmistakable Negro features, and with a thoroughly primitive and simple dress." (p. 12)
"On a tract of such an enormous extent there lived an almost countless number of tribes, whose original stock was that of a pure ancient African people, whom we meet with in those countries at the present day, the black or brown negro races called Nahasi on the monuments." (p. 330)
And then, ("The Ancient Egypt "Race" Issue") :
quote:Egyptians had a "medium tone"
The Ethiopians stain the world and depict a race of men steeped in darkness; less sun-burnt are the natives of India; the land of Egypt, flooded by the Nile, darkens bodies more mildly owing to the inundation of its fields: it it a country nearer to us and its moderate climate imparts a medium tone. – Manilius, Astronomica 4.724
Here the term Ethiopians (= Greek "burnt face", denoting very dark skin) refers to Africans inhabiting latitudes south of Egypt (Snowden, 1989). The term "Ethiopian," in that it was a broad category encompassing diverse ethnic groups of tropical Africa, was similar to a modern-day "racial" designation and roughly corresponded to what early anthropologists would have called "Negro." Yet classical writers, as exemplified by Manilius' quote above, clearly differentiated the Egyptians from "Ethiopians." Philostratus, for example, noted that a people living near the Nubian border were lighter than Ethiopians, and that Egyptians were lighter still.
Egyptians resembled Northern Indians
There are cases of Greco-Roman authors likening Egyptians' appearance to that of northern Indians, who generally do not look like black Africans. According to Arrian (Indica 6.9):
The appearance of the inhabitants is also not very different in India and Ethiopia: the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as they are black to look on, and their hair is black; only they are not so snub-nosed or woolly-haired as the Ethiopians; the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians physically.
Strabo confirms in Geography 15.1.13, in almost identical wording:
As for the people of India, those in the south are like the Aethiopians in color, although they are like the rest in respect to countenance and hair (for on account of the humidity of the air their hair does not curl), whereas those in the north are like the Egyptians.
Arrian and Strabo concur that the Egyptians resembled northern Indians – who are usually straight-haired and occasionally as light-skinned as southern Europeans – rather than the dark Dravidian types of southern India. Furthermore, although Arrian and Strabo differentiate Ethiopians from South Indians in terms of facial form and hair texture, they cite no such differences between the Egyptians and northern Indians.
Afrocentric misreadings of classical texts
The meaning of melas and melanochroes
In their efforts to paint the ancient Egyptians "black," Afrocentrists rely heavily on misreadings of ancient Greek and Roman literature – many of which stem from a severe misunderstanding of the historical use of color terms. In many ages and many cultures, descriptions of human complexion as "white," "brown" or "black" would correspond in modern usage to "fair," "tan" or "swarthy." According to the anthropologist Peter Frost (*):
This older, more relative sense has been noted in other culture areas. The Japanese once used the terms shiroi (white) and kuroi (black) to describe their skin and its gradations of color. The Ibos of Nigeria employed ocha (white) and ojii (black) in the same way, so that nwoko ocha (white man) simply meant an Ibo with a lighter complexion. In French Canada, the older generation still refers to a swarthy Canadien as noir. Vestiges of this older usage persist in family names. Mr. White, Mr. Brown, and Mr. Black were individuals within the normal color spectrum of English people. Ditto for Leblanc, Lebrun, and Lenoir among the French or Weiss and Schwartz among the Germans.
In the same vein, the Greek words melas and leukos when applied to skin color were usually equivalent to "swarthy" and "fair" rather than the racial terms "black" or "white" as Afrocentrists would prefer (see definition of melas in the online LSJ lexicon). There are numerous examples of this usage in Greek literature – one unequivocal example describes an aged Odysseus magically regaining his youth (Homer Odyssey 16.172-176):
With this, Athena touched him [Odysseus] with her golden wand. A well-washed cloak and a tunic she first of all cast about his breast, and she increased his stature and his youthful bloom. Once more he grew dark of color [melanchroięs], and his cheeks filled out, and dark grew the beard about his chin.
In describing the skin tone of Odysseus, Homer used the word melanchroięs – a form of the same word that other Greeks sometimes chose to describe Egyptians, and one that is the source of much Afrocentric misunderstanding. If taken literally, the word would mean "black-skinned"; however, it is clear from the context that Homer means "of swarthy complexion" rather than racially "black," and intends to describe Odysseus regaining his youthful color. Otherwise we would have to assume that during the process of rejuvenation Odysseus transformed into a black African! This despite the numerous ancient artistic portrayals of Odysseus as Greek-looking and certainly not "black" in any modern racial sense.
Likewise, when the ancient writers described Egyptians as melas or melanchroes, they almost surely meant "dark-complected" rather than literally "black." Any ambiguity in such descriptions can be resolved by noting that other classical writers such as Manilius specifically identified the Egyptians as medium in complexion rather than "black," and that the Egyptians portrayed themselves as lighter and finer-featured than their African neighbors to the south.
The Herodotus quote
Perhaps the most frequently cited Greek quote among Afrocentrists is that of Herodotus (Histories 2.104.2) describing Egyptians as well as Colchians of the Caucasus as "dark-skinned and woolly-haired." That the Egyptians were dark relative to Greeks is not surprising, considering that the same is true today. But Herodotus' description of Egyptian hair would, at first glance, appear to conflict with the physical evidence left by the Egyptians themselves – numerous mummies with hair still attached to the skulls showing more straight, wavy, or lightly curled hair types than "woolly." The only way to make the evidence consistent is to assume Herodotus spoke in a relative rather than absolute sense. That is, Egyptian hair was on average curlier than Greek hair and the tightly-curled ("woolly") hair type was found more often in Egyptians than in Greeks – as is true today. There is no reason to assume on the basis of Herodotus' words that all or even most Egyptians had "woolly" hair, nor that such hair found in Egyptians was as "woolly" as that of tropical Africans. Indeed, Herodotus himself mentions only "Ethiopians" – not Egyptians – as having the "woolliest hair of all men" (Herodotus Histories 7.70.1). Moreover, Herodotus' explanation that being melanchroes or oulotriches "indeed counts for nothing, since other peoples are, too" suggests that these adjectives did not apply exclusively to any one "race" of people.
An analogous example of a stereotype based on relative comparison comes from the medieval Arab scholar Ibn Butlan, who noted the Greeks as having "straight blond hair" and "blue eyes." Does this mean that all medieval Greeks had a Nordic appearance? Certainly not: it merely suggests that the blondhaired, blue-eyed type is more common among Greeks than Arabs and stood out more as a salient characteristic worthy of mention. The Arabs, like the Greeks, noted characteristics that were unusual in their own population and used these traits to typify the foreigners.
Interestingly, Herodotus mentions the Colchians as another group having "dark skin and woolly hair." Considering that the Colchians inhabited what is roughly modern-day Georgia in the Caucasus, it would seem that the vast majority of Colchians were most likely – and quite literally – Caucasian. Of course Afrocentric diehards might claim that Colchians too were black Africans, but such a theory runs into trouble when one considers the observations of Hippocrates, who wrote that the Colchians in Phasis "are large and corpulent in body. Neither joint nor vein is evident. They have a yellow flesh, as if victims of jaundice" (Hippocrates, Airs, Waters, Places 15). Nothing in Hippocrates' description suggests that Colchians look anything like sub-Saharan Africans and this further weakens the Afrocentric argument that Egyptians and Colchians must have looked like "blacks" on the basis of Herodotus' words.
Other ancient quotes cited by Afrocentrists
There are certain other quotes that some Afro-Egyptocentrists interpret in such a way as to conflict with other descriptions such as the ones at the top of this page. The interpretations have similar failings as the Herodotus quote. That is, (1) misconstruing melas and its variants as meaning racially "black"; (2) assuming certain traits mentioned in quotes are found in all or even most of the Egyptian population; and (3) assuming that when Egyptians do possess such traits, they are expressed nearly as strongly as in tropical Africans to the south. Using similar faulty methods, Afrocentrists might as well say Jews in the Middle Ages were "black" because Joseph ben Nathan in the 13th century quoted his father as saying "we Jews come from a pure, white source, and so our faces are black." Of course to do this would be to ignore the fact that in medieval Europe as in ancient Greece, black often meant "swarthy." Likewise, Afrocentrists could insist that 12th-century Turks were "black" on the basis of their being exaggerated as "blacker than pitch or ink" in the epic Chanson d'Aspremont. But we know on the basis of physical remains and ample pictorial evidence that neither the Jews nor Turks were actually "black" in medieval times.
Yep - it is very clear what Greeks meant by what they termed melanchroes Egyptians and Colchians.
Portrayal of Egyptians on a Greek vase
Nuff said.
“there are three tribes of Ethiopians: Hesperians, Garamantes and Indians” Isidore of Seville 6th century
(See IX ii 128.in The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, Stephen A. Barney, 2006, p. 199.
You lose.
1886 – “The fundamental character of the Egyptians in respect of physical type, language and tone of thought, is Negritic. The Egyptians were not negroes, but they bore resemblance to the negro WHICH IS INDISPUTABLE.” Found in - Ancient Egypt by George Rawlinson and Arthur Gilman, London, 1886, p. 24.
“The Egyptians, though healthy, large and robust were clumsy in their forms and course in their features. Like other African tribes they were woolly haired, flat-nosed and thick lipped, and if not absolutely black were very near it in color. From the Publication “ Specimens of Ancient Sculpture Society of Dilettanti Vol 1,
Checkmate!
On the Kahanim of Khaibar
“At the end of eight days we found a mountain [Khaibar] which appeared to be ten or twelve miles in circumference, in which mountain there dwell four or five thousand Jews, who go naked or six spans, and have a feminine voice, and ARE MORE BLACK THAN ANY OTHER COLOUR. They live entirely upon the flesh of sheep, and eat nothing else. They are circumcised and confess that they are Jews; and if they can get a Moor into their hands, they skin him alive.” pp. 14-15 (1997) The Itinerary of Ludovico di Varthema of Bologna from 1502 to 1508 translated from the original Italian by John Winter Jones.
“Know that the land of Egypt when the Mussulmans entered it, was full of Christians, but divided amongst themselves in two sects, both as to race and religion.
The one part was made up of men about the court and public affairs, all Greek, from among the soldiers of Constantinople, the seat of government of Rum; their views as well as their religion, were all of them Melkite; and their number was above 300 000, all Greeks.
The other portion was the whole people of Egypt, who were Qibt, and were of mixed descent; among whom one COULD NOT DISTINGUISH QIBT FROM ABYSINIAN< NUBIAN OR ISRAELITE; and they were all Jacobites." From Al Maqrizi family from Baalbek, "History of the Copts and of their Church.” 14th century
Don't tell us the ancients couldn't distinguish Greeks and other fairskinned Mediterraneans from blacks.
Your case is closed.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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"In summary, the information available on individual groups in Ethiopia and North Africa is fairly limited but sufficient to show that they are all separate from sub-Saharan Africans and that North Africans and East Africans (Ethiopian and neighbors) are also clearly separate. Estimation of admixture by standard methods (Guglielmino-Matessi et al., in prep.) has given values of about 60% African and 40% Caucasoid, using sub-Saharan Africans as African “parents” and Southwest Asians as Caucasoid parents. Because very similar results are obtained using North Africans as Caucasoid parents, it is difficult to tell whether Southwest Asians or North Africans contributed the Caucasoid genes. Perhaps both did. Using the simple Fst approach discussed in chapter 1 for calculating admixtures, average gene frequencies from Nilotic speakers as prototypes of African ancestors, as well as gene frequencies of North Africans averaged for the five groups of table 3.6.1 as Caucasoid ancestors, one obtains 53% of African (and 47% Caucasoid) contribution for Tigre, 57% for Amhara, 56% for Cushitic."
"Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians, indicating that placement of these individuals in a ‘Black’ cluster would be an inaccurate reflection of the genetic structure. Only 24% of the Ethiopians are placed in the cluster with the Bantu and most of the Afro-Caribbeans; however, 21% of the Afro-Caribbeans are placed in a cluster with the West Eurasians (presumably reflecting genetic exchange with Europeans)."
Good sources.
Have you noted all the afronuts can do in return is spam charts created in windows paint tool by Zaharan (who has no credentials). LMAO.
Windows paint they think is a valid source.
lol. It's old info, science has developed with much better ways to narrow down on locus and satellite loci. Which gives better insight in what has happend or may has occurred. Besides that the old data is just a set of biased samples, without the story of the locals in phylogene or even in personal geneology.
So of course now it's understood that these populations had a commercial economic trade culture with people from the surrounding area, given away the relation with Yemeni and Omani populations who closely relate to and with Horn and Nilo-Saharan populations. Hence why these populations look similair. It's these genetic sequences they took and looked at as "Eurasian".
The second study is showing discrepancies in alleles the give away to this is the ununiperal in frequencies of this locus spanning over a large area and within different populations who historically had no contact or connection, that's what it's about. It doesn't speak of autosomals or proves distribution, although in some cases it may have have occurred like in some Afro-Caribbeans. And even this is uncertain as they say in the paper. Because we know that some Afro-Caribbeans have been sampled as genetically close to Horn people. The reason for this is due to early pastoralists, migrationsts from the Horn into parts of West Africa.
Zarahan has shown more recent studies which highly dispute the older data. Which wasn't as developed yet and was based on biased samples. This is the part you can't comprehend.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Y-DNA haplogroup E probably arose in Northeast Africa, if one looks only at the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration. Today E* is found predominantly in Ethiopia. E1 and E2 are found in Northeast Africa, but surveys show E1 may actually be more prevalent in Mali than in its presumed region of origin. E4 is a minor subclade. E3 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two important sub-lineages, E3a and E3b. E3a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern Africa to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion. E3a is the most common lineage among African Americans. E3b probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. E3b clusters are seen today in Western Europe, the Balkans, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa. The Cruciani articles (references and links below) are indispensable resources for understanding the structure of this complicated haplogroup.
A caution on clade labels: Because knowledge of this branch of the Y-chromosome tree has advanced so quickly in the last few years, different clade labels can be found in current use for the same SNP-determined branch of the tree. For example, it is still common to see E3b1 and E3b2 used to distinguish between the M78 and M81 branches of the tree though greater resolution is now possible. Also, STR-based distinctions in the M78 branch at one time permitted broad distinctions of alpha, beta, gamma and delta clusters. With the new SNPs reported in the 2006 and 2007 Cruciani studies, it has become possible to see that the alpha cluster, which is widely distributed in Europe, is strongly correlated with the V13 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a2; the beta cluster is strongly correlated with the V65 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a4; the gamma cluster correlates with the V32 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a1a; and the delta cluster tends to correlate with the V22 SNP (E3b1a3) though it includes some V12 haplotypes (E3b1a1) as well.
Last but not least, let me just play along with your little rant.
So why don't we see a high frequency distribution and variety of Hg E into Asia? Rather, all over Asia!
The burden is on you!
Commentary by a Somali person and other posters in regard to this subject.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor posted 26 February, 2011 06:23:
Saudi Arabian Y-Chromosome diversity and its relationship with nearby regions
"Around 14% of the Saudi Arabia Y-chromosome pool is typical of African biogeographic ancestry"
"Global male inputs from Sub-Saharan Africa and Asia across Iran, not the Levant, into the Arabian Peninsula have been estimated in this study, as 13.4% and 16.6% from both source areas respectively. Recent mtDNA studies on the same Arabian Peninsula countries [7-9,12] have confirmed a notable female-driven sub-Saharan African input with a mean value around 15% for all the Peninsula, although frequencies as high as 60% have been detected in Hadramawt populations of Yemen"
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer posted posted 26 February, 2011 09:11:
Forgot to ask why you find this information interesting, upon citing data for Somali and Arabian samples? I take it that it has to do with "diversity"? If so, it just goes to prove my point that the Somali are a relatively conservative cultural group, with little genetic exchange with groups considered to be outsiders. Look at even the Bantu-speaking groups living amongst them; very little genetic exchange with them. Arabian samples have attained this diversity, because they have been a recipient of more exogenous gene flow than the Somalian counterpart. They (Arabian samples) had been impacted by multiple demic diffusions events over the course of history than that by which the Somalian territory would have been exposed to. Look at the Arabian samples, they have E markers ranging from western African (M2, or M33, for instance), coastal north/Maghrebi (e.g. M81), to eastern African (e.g. M78, M35* or M329) and Balkan or Anatolian/Turkish (e.g. V13) sources -- different territories. Somali population only provides a snapshot of African diversity and looks to be a derivative of a bottle-necked population [likely from eastern Sahara, initially], i.e. proto-Cushitic speaking group, which homogenized and underwent ethnogenesis to become the distinctive Somali-speaking community it is known today.
quote:Originally posted by IamNomad posted 26 February, 2011 10:22: The Explorer
You may ask THE LIONESS where are they now these Arabs in Somalia 7th 8th century? Today’s so called Arabs who are mixed with Somalis are less then %1 in Somalia. all of them are around in South Somalia and live in few cities and if you ask most are recent arrivals infect Persian and Indians have lived Somalia and traded longer than Arabs in Somali but no one mentions why? just to make any African civilisation foreign.
Adan city in Yemen the old days Somali traders out numbered Arabs and now most population have Somali Mix and many Adan population speak Somali as second language up to now but no one mentions because African achievement outside Africa is not important or better they can explain away or hide it all together.
The Popular History of Arabs setting trading cities in Somalia is simply wishful thinking and made up like the rest of African History. Unfortunately no one challenges or asks proof.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer posted 26 February, 2011 08:03:
That frequency of recent African ancestry was downplayed. Everything from hg A to hg E should have been rendered markers of recent African ancestry, which adds up to 19.74% for the Saudi Arabian sample.
Abu-Amero et al.'s work in my opinion is only useful for its reference table, so that one can see what markers were actually detected in the populations sampled.
They say irresponsible things like hg DE-YAP* being a "non-African" uniparental haplogroup, and then go onto say moments later, that the clade was detected at low frequencies in Africa...
It is noteworthy that DE-YAP* has been detected at low frequency in Africa [37].
They say this is noteworthy, yet they apparently forgot to note it. Fact is that DE-YAP* was not figured in any of their samples and these upstream marker have only been identified in African and southeast Asian populations [not surprisingly, the two regions that have populations rich with YAP+ markers], with Africans showing up far more frequencies. How then it mystically becomes a non-African uniparental haplogroup is beyond me. This is what they say...
This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CFP143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa.
We are supposed to ignore the place where DE-YAP* actually exists and is most frequent, and assume a region with 0 frequency as the marker's place of origin. Hilarious. In any case, we are asked to assume that CT-M168 bearer was on the continent with its sister clade B-M60, wherein while the ancestral B carrier was more than happy to beget descendants on the continent, CT-M168 carrier somehow decided it was best to go outside of Africa, beget hg DE-YAP* "nearby but outside" of the continent, and then return. LOL. I'm not sure these folks take a second look at what they are narrating.
I wouldn't put too much stock in E markers designated with the * sign, because the authors' sequencing resolution is not comprehensive. For instance, E* could well have been an E1b marker which wasn't tested, or it could have been an E1b2 marker, which too was not tested here. Likewise, the intra-phylogenetic resolution for their E1b1a*, E1b1b*, E1b1b1a1*, E1*, E2* et al. markers was not sufficient enough to just assume that these are all upstream or "underived" markers.
quote:Originally posted by The Old Doctoreposted 26 February, 2011 12:38:
Explorer and everybody else confused about the Lionesses ramblings about the Beta Israel being 20-30% "Eurasian". She's misinterpreting Tishkoff et al. 2009 and 2010. She's getting the figures from the unsupervised Global Structure run, which were not used by Tishkoff as the final results for the African and African Diaspora populations. The supervised African run is the more "accurate" STRUCTURE run in regard to the entire study.
The Saharan cluster is a mixed African-Eurasian cluster, that can be found among the Mozabite and northerly Northeast African groups at moderate frequencies. Due to bidirectional gene-flow between Africa and Eurasia. Meaning Western Eurasians are also likely going to possess this component at similar frequencies.
The Mozabite are 50% Saharan
The Northerly Northeast African groups are:
Eastern Sudanese Beja: 21% Saharan Eritrean Beni-Amer: 18% Saharan Northern Ethiopian Beta-Israel: 17% Saharan
The Saharan cluster is a mixed cluster so if you would evenly split the cluster into it's African and Eurasian components.
The Mozabite would be 75% African The E. Sudanese Beja would be 90% African The Eritrean Beni-Amer would be 91% African and the northern Ethiopian Beta-Israel would be 92% African
The Somali don't cluster with the above populations to the greatest extent. They are more closer to the Oromo and Rendille populations sampled by Tishkoff, all of whom were tested to be 100% African.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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The recent resolutions of the CDEF-M168 tripartite structure to the bipartite DE-YAP and CF-P143 [16, 31] extends the conversation regarding the early successful colonization of Eurasia. While several scenarios remain potentially possible the most parsimonious model is the most prudent. This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula, could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CF-P143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa. One DE-YAP* ancestor would have spread to Asia and evolved to haplogroup D while another DE-YAP* returned to northeast Africa and evolved into hg E. It is noteworthy that DE-YAP* has been detected at low frequency in Africa [37]. Again, this hypothesis has its mtDNA counterpart as it is well documented that, in the Palaeolithic, at least three clades (X1, U6, M1) derived respectively from the three main Eurasian macrohaplogroups (N, R, M) came back to North Africa from Asia [38-42].
The similarity of patterns of different mutants indicates some secondary expansions. It is also interesting to sum the distributions of different haplogroups descending from the same mutation, as for example D and E, which both descend from DE-YAP, the first mutation that split into the E branch that perhaps returned to Africa (or arose there), whereas the other branch, D, is found today mainly in the Himalayas and Japan.
Regarding the "Paleolithic back migration hypothesis" on mtDNA. That's another discussion. For that matter. After all it's a "hypothesis"! lol
Factual is the recorded history of Saqalibas and Mamluks. However, your Eurocentric scholars did not mention it even one time I their "scientific" rant. Isn't that odd?lol
Here at ES we don't follow Eurocentric doctrine like zombies.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by huy60: Can you try to debunk each of these quotes?
Other ancient quotes cited by Afrocentrists
There are certain other quotes that some Afro-Egyptocentrists interpret in such a way as to conflict with other descriptions such as the ones at the top of this page. The interpretations have similar failings as the Herodotus quote. That is, (1) misconstruing melas and its variants as meaning racially "black"; (2) assuming certain traits mentioned in quotes are found in all or even most of the Egyptian population; and (3) assuming that when Egyptians do possess such traits, they are expressed nearly as strongly as in tropical Africans to the south. Using similar faulty methods, Afrocentrists might as well say Jews in the Middle Ages were "black" because Joseph ben Nathan in the 13th century quoted his father as saying "we Jews come from a pure, white source, and so our faces are black." Of course to do this would be to ignore the fact that in medieval Europe as in ancient Greece, black often meant "swarthy." Likewise, Afrocentrists could insist that 12th-century Turks were "black" on the basis of their being exaggerated as "blacker than pitch or ink" in the epic Chanson d'Aspremont. But we know on the basis of physical remains and ample pictorial evidence that neither the Jews nor Turks were actually "black" in medieval times.
Before I forget.
Turks, Ottomans weren't described as or considered black/ Moors. Or whatever the hell you try to claim! However, the Ottomans were familiar with the real Moors/ blacks! All across the Sudanic belt, into Northwest Africa. African soldiers were considered fierce.
Etymology of the word:
schvartze
"black person" (somewhat derogatory), 1961, from Yiddish, from schvarts "black" (see swarthy). Perhaps originally a code word to refer to black servants when they were within earshot, as Ger. cognate Schwarze apparently was in the mid-19c.:
swarthy 1580s, unexplained alteration of swarty (1570s), from swart + -y (2).
The man with the beard is referred to as swarthy. In the traditional Jewish context.
You are clearly retarded and lack knowledge!
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Huy, if your reading this, it should be apparent by now who the real erroneous and wrong ones are as well as who is deranged and nutty. You can in here inquiring 'Afrocentrists', but let's be clear Egypt is IN AFRICA. Thus, to be 'Afrocentric' about Egypt makes as much sense as being 'Eurocentric' when it comes to Greece or 'Orientalist' when it comes to China. Not all of us here even identify as 'Afrocentric' or are even black or of African descent at all! I myself am Asian and my original purpose in this forum is to learn about ancient Egypt not so much as discuss 'race', however the more Egypt's African identity becomes apparent the more Eurocentric nutcases degrade the topic back to 'race'. Again I am not Afrocentric but truthcentric as another forum member describes himself who happens to be WHITE. You can see how desperate the racist losers are when they want to not only white-wash Egypt but Nubia as well and even other peoples in Sub-Sahara because of the relations they bear with the Egyptians!! This is no joke. The Euronut white racists are going overload with their supremacy claims.
Not only is Egypt African, but we even have evidence showing that Africans have expanded beyond Africa into the Levant, Arabia, and southern Europe. It is these findings that have aggravated white racists even more which is why we have to work harder to overturn the racialist rubbish.
Posts: 26300 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by huy60: Regarding the study cited in the first chart posted by Troll patrol, Mathilda37 has a good post on it.
lol At some rubbish blog by some old Brithish woman. LMAO!
quote:Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: a new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature.
Raxter MH, Ruff CB,
Abstract
Trotter and Gleser's (Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 10 (1952) 469-514; Trotter and Gleser: Am J Phys Anthropol 16 (1958) 79-123) long bone formulae for US Blacks or derivations thereof (Robins and Shute: Hum Evol 1 (1986) 313-324) have been previously used to estimate the stature of ancient Egyptians. However, limb length to stature proportions differ between human populations; consequently, the most accurate mathematical stature estimates will be obtained when the population being examined is as similar as possible in proportions to the population used to create the equations. The purpose of this study was to create new stature regression formulae based on direct reconstructions of stature in ancient Egyptians and assess their accuracy in comparison to other stature estimation methods. We also compare Egyptian body proportions to those of modern American Blacks and Whites. Living stature estimates were derived using a revised Fully anatomical method (Raxter et al.: Am J Phys Anthropol 130 (2006) 374-384). Long bone stature regression equations were then derived for each sex. Our results confirm that, although ancient Egyptians are closer in body proportion to modern American Blacks than they are to American Whites, proportions in Blacks and Egyptians are not identical. The newly generated Egyptian-based stature regression formulae have standard errors of estimate of 1.9-4.2 cm. All mean directional differences are less than 0.4% compared to anatomically estimated stature, while results using previous formulae are more variable, with mean directional biases varying between 0.2% and 1.1%, tibial and radial estimates being the most biased. There is no evidence for significant variation in proportions among temporal or social groupings; thus, the new formulae may be broadly applicable to ancient Egyptian remains.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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You are a hypocrite. You get irate when Whites try to claim AE or any other African civilization but you have no problem with your Black racist ilk claiming every dang part of White history & White groups as Black. Even going as far as claiming to be the real indigenous Europeans and we have no homeland.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Troll Patrol,
You are a hypocrite. You get irate when Whites try to claim AE or any other African civilization but you have no problem with your Black racist ilk claiming every dang part of White history & White groups as Black. Even going as far as claiming to be the real indigenous Europeans and we have no homeland.
When and where have I claimed white history? LOL
Be very specific in this, Trump supporter.
BY THE WAY WHITES HAVE CLAIMED ANYONES CIVILIZATION AND HISTORY, ALL OVER THE GLOBE. LONG BEFORE ANY BLACK OR PERSON OF COLOR EVEN HAD THE CHANGE TO CLAIM A "WHITE CIVILIZATION" OR HISTORY.
See, as usually you are dense and make no sense. Lying Nazi!
Modern day Europeans homeland is at Asia Minor, the place from where your First Lady originated. This is what WHITE scientists say. So gain, why don't you bother them with your nonsense?
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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