posted
You're such a fake Bernardo aka Quetzalcoatl. Let's look at your publications :
Life and Death in the Templo Mayor by Eduardo Matos Moctezuma, Bernard R. Ortiz De Montellano (Translator), Thelma Ortiz De Montellano (Translator)
Offerings of the Templo Mayor by Leonardo Lopez Lujan, Bernard R. De Montellano, Lopez Luj, Thelma Ortiz De Montellano (Translator)
Tamoanchan, Tlalocan : Places of Mist by Alfredo Lopez Austin, Bernard R. Ortiz De Montellano (Translator) , Thelma Ortiz De Montellano (Translator) , Bernard R. De Montellano (Translator) , Thelma Ortiz De Montellano (Translator)
Aztec Medicine, Health, and Nutrition by Bernard R. Ortiz De Montellano
Except for the last book your other publications are translations of other peoples work. Your own book was published by Rutgers Press which has a vanity press component. This is also the Press where the Journal of African Civilization is published.
Being published by Rutgers Press, is no different from being published by lulu.com.
And I repeat, up to your retirement your only claim to fame was attacking Ivan and Hunter Adams. You banked many speaking engagements and published papers on this theme. Often the publications like Current Anthropology would not publish rebuttals of your work. So you moved into a fantasy world in which you believed everything you wrote was true.
That's why I like you being here. Here you show your ignorance in everyone of our debates now that you don't have Doug or Maat banning posters who dispute your garbage.
You are the fraud. Except for your dissertation you have nothing to show for orignal research.
quote: you have nothing to show for orignal research.
Clyde, distortion of FACTS, and pretty much fabrication of evidence, are far from original research.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Her academic reputation (fame) and her tenure were based on these books:
^ Nonsense. She had no *fame* and sold few books. She was a middling scholar who labored in obscurity.
The wiki description of her is perfectly accurate:
She has published on subjects including mythology, women in antiquity, Pindar, and fiction in ancient biography. **She has come to the attention of a wider audience through her criticism of the claims of Afrocentrism,** particularly in Not Out of Africa: How Afrocentrism Became an Excuse to Teach Myth As History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lefkowitz
^ Her other works are not even mentioned by name, because no one cares.
Tell us honestly if you've actually read her 'other works', or ever would, notwithstanding her infamous anti-afrocentric posturings and an ad hoc need to somehow validate her beyound the petty polemicisms of US right wing politcos? [ie- she is the sarah palin of academia]
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:re: jamie/Bernard/salsassin/etc. - You Great Deciever ....You.
^ I would say he is a significant gadfly to you, and an insignificant fly-speck to anyone else.
Again if you learn to temper your penchant for fabrication, and stop playing down to the lowest common denominator audience - he would be far less effective as and irritant to you.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:re: jamie/Bernard/salsassin/etc. - You Great Deciever ....You.
LOl, is that the same salsassin from youtube who thinks this guy is indigenous to Africa, and has no non-African admixture? The one who believes Ancient Egyptians also looked this??
quote:salsassin: Wrong. They have been mentioned as "super negroid" as stating that their faces have evolved farther in the direction that Negroid faces would go if the continued in the same pattern. Hence thry are not negroid. But that is irrelevant. They are not Black Africans, nor have they ever been considered as such. Negroid is a bone structure. Black is a skin tone or ethnic description. They are not interchangeable. The San have never belonged to a Black ethnic group, nor are they dark skinned, And they live in desert territiories out in the open. SO you are wrong there as well. As stated before, the San are in the same latitude distance from the Equator as North Africans. North Africans have shown Caucasoid (Not White) featres since the Pleistocene. They have been described as heterogenous in their skin tones. You claimed light skin could not exist in Africa. The San are ample evidence that they can without admixture. Thus, they corroborate the light skin in North Africans as a similar environmental capacity.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: You're such a fake Bernardo aka Quetzalcoatl. Let's look at your publications :
Life and Death in the Templo Mayor by Eduardo Matos Moctezuma, Bernard R. Ortiz De Montellano (Translator), Thelma Ortiz De Montellano (Translator)
Offerings of the Templo Mayor by Leonardo Lopez Lujan, Bernard R. De Montellano, Lopez Luj, Thelma Ortiz De Montellano (Translator)
Tamoanchan, Tlalocan : Places of Mist by Alfredo Lopez Austin, Bernard R. Ortiz De Montellano (Translator) , Thelma Ortiz De Montellano (Translator) , Bernard R. De Montellano (Translator) , Thelma Ortiz De Montellano (Translator)
Aztec Medicine, Health, and Nutrition by Bernard R. Ortiz De Montellano
Except for the last book your other publications are translations of other peoples work. Your own book was published by Rutgers Press which has a vanity press component. This is also the Press where the Journal of African Civilization is published.
Being published by Rutgers Press, is no different from being published by lulu.com.
Journal of African Civilizations is published by Transaction Publishers NOT Rutgers University Press, which has no "vanity press" components. My book went through peer review. As a matter of fact my translations were also peer reviewed because they were all published by University presses.
quote:And I repeat, up to your retirement your only claim to fame was attacking Ivan and Hunter Adams. You banked many speaking engagements and published papers on this theme. Often the publications like Current Anthropology would not publish rebuttals of your work. So you moved into a fantasy world in which you believed everything you wrote was true.
LOL. I'll put my publication list below and people can see what I published before my retirement in 1998. Let's see 2 papers in Science one a cover article, 2 publications in [B}Current Anthropology[/B], 2 in Ethnohistory, 3 in [BJ]ournal of the American Chemical Society[/B], 1 in American Anthropologist, 2 in Journal of Ethnopharmacology and 4 invited encyclopedia articles for starters. Not only peer reviewed but the leading prestigious journals.
quote: That's why I like you being here. Here you show your ignorance in everyone of our debates now that you don't have Doug or Maat banning posters who dispute your garbage.
You are the fraud. Except for your dissertation you have nothing to show for orignal research.
You Great Deciever ....You. .
Books
Ancient and Modern Medical Practices in Mesoamerica. Greeley, CO: Univ. of Northern Colorado.
Translator with T. Ortiz de Montellano of Alfredo López Austin, Human Body and Ideology. Aztec Physiological Concepts (Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 1988) 2 vol.
Aztec Medicine, Health, and Nutrition (New Brunswick: University of Rutgers Press 1990).
Translator with T. Ortiz de Montellano of Alfredo Lopez Austin, Myths of the Opossum: Pathways of Mesoamerican Mythology (Albuquerque: Univ. New Mexico Press, 1993).
Medicina, nutrición, y salud de los aztecas (Mexico: Siglo XXI, 1993). Spanish translation of 1990.
Translator with T. Ortiz de Montellano of Leonardo López Luján, The Offerings of the Templo Mayor of Tenochtitlan (Boulder: University Press of Colorado, 1994).
Translator with T. Ortiz de Montellano of Eduardo Matos Moctezuma, Life and Death at the Templo Mayor (Boulder: University Press of Colorado, 1995).
Translator with T. Ortiz de Montellano of Georges Baudot, Mexico and Utopia (Boulder: University Press of Colorado, 1996).
Translator with T. Ortiz de Montellano of Alfredo López Austin, The Rabbit on the Face of the Moon (Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 1996).
Translator with T. Ortiz de Montellano of Michel Graulich, Rituals and Myths of Ancient Mexico (Norman: Univ. of Oklahoma Press, 1997)
Translator with T. Ortiz de Montellano of Alfredo López Austin, Tamoanchan, Tlalocan (Boulder: University Press of Colorado, 1997).
Translator of Alfredo López Austin and Leonardo López Luján, The Indian Past of Mexico (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 2001).
Articles
METAL-AMMONIA REDUCTION OF NONCONJUGATED DIENES AND ENONES, J. Am. Chem. Soc.,89, 3365 (1967) with B.A. Loving, T.C. Shields and P.D. Gardner.
ANALYSIS OF PESTICIDE RESIDUES BY A DUAL-ELECTRON CAPTURE DETECTOR METHOD, J. Agric. Food Chem.,17, 264 (1969), with L. J. Purdue and J. Bryant.
REACTION OF 3-CYCLOHEXENYL RADICAL WITH NUCLEOPHILES, J. Am. Chem. Soc.,95, 5832 (1973), with D.Y. Myers, C.G. Stroebel and P.D. Gardner.
COUPLING OF RADICALS WITH NUCLEOPHILES: SCOPE OF THE REACTION, J. Am. Chem. Soc., 96, 1981 (1974), with D.Y. Myers, C.G. Stroebel and P.D. Gardner
THE STEPCHILDREN OF LAW AND ORDER, St, Mary's University Bulletin,4 (#1), 6 (1971).
JAILHOUSE POLITICS, J. Contemporary Law, 1, 30 (1974).
EMPIRICAL AZTEC MEDICINE, Science, 188, 215 (1975); REPRINTED in the following: Katunob, 9 (#3) (1976); N. Klein, Ed., Culture Curers and Contagion (San Francisco: Chandler Sharp, 1979).
AZTEC MEDICINE; FANCY OR FACT?, Student Osteopathic Medical Assoc. Publication, 5 (#2), 1 (1976).
UNA CLASIFICACION BOTANICA ENTRE LOS NAHUAS?, in X. Lozoya, Ed.,Estado Actual del Conocimiento de Plantas Medicas Mexicanas (Mexico: IMEPLAM, 1976).
CURANDEROS; SPANISH SHAMANS OR AZTEC SCIENTISTS?, Grito del Sol, 1 (#3), 21 (1976); REPRINTED in the following: La Raza Habla (New Mexico State University), 1 (#4), 1 (1976).
AZTEC CANNIBALISM; AN ECOLOGICAL NECESSITY?, Science, 200, 611 (1978).
THE RATIONAL CAUSES OF DISEASE AMONG THE AZTECS, Memoirs XLII International Congress of Americanists (Paris, September 1976), Vol. 6, 287 (1979); REPRINTED in Katunob, 10 (#2), 23 (1979).
MAGIC MYTH AND MINORITY SCIENTISTS,in Proceedings Society for the Advancement of Chicanos and Native Americans in Science (Boulder, Co: SACNAS, 1978) p. 62; REPRINTED in the following: ERIC, Resources in Education (1979); Grito del Sol, 4 (#2), 47 (1979).
THE SCIENTIFIC BASIS FOR AZTEC TREATMENT OF WOUNDS, in C. Viesca Trevino Ed., Estudios Sobre Etnobotanica y Antropologia Medica (Mexico: IMEPLAM, 1979), Vol. 3,p. 145.
DRUGS OF THE FUTURE: DRUGS OF THE PAST, a review essay of Medical Botany by N.H. Lewis and M.P.F. Elvin-Lewis, Reviews in Anthropology, 6 (#4), 425 (1979); REPRINTED in translation in Medicina Tradicional (Mexico), 2 (#8), 71 (1980).
THE MESOAMERICAN CALENDAR: PHILOSOPHY AND COMPUTATIONS, Grito del Sol, 4 (#2), 47-73 (1979).
AZTEC SURVIVALS IN MODERN FOLK MEDICINE, Grito del Sol, 4 (#2), 11-26 (1979).
EL CANIBALISMO AZTECA, NECESIDAD ECOLOGICA?, Anales de Antropologia (Natl. Univ. of Mexico), XVI, 155 (1979).
LAS YERBAS DE TLALOC, Estudios de Cultura Nahuatl ( Natl Univ. of Mexico), 14, 287 (1980).
MINORITIES AND THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL MONOPOLY; ETHICAL AND POLITICAL ASPECTS OF THE INTERACTION OF TRADITIONAL MEDICINE AND SCIENCE, Grito del Sol, 5 (#2), 27 (1980); REPRINTED in J.V. Martinez and D. Marinez, eds., Aspects of Hispanic and American Indian Involvement in Biomedical Research (Bethesda, MD: SACNAS, 1982).
HOME EXPERIMENTS IN AN ADULT GENERAL EDUCATION PROGRAM, J. of College Science Teaching, 10 (#5), 297 (1981), with J.A. Anderson, D.R. Bowen, J.A. Juskevice and J.R, Woodyard.
ENTHEOGENS; THE INTERACTION OF BIOLOGY AND CULTURE, Reviews in Anthropology, 8 (#4), 339 (1981).
CIENCIA Y TECNOLOGIA PARA GRUPOS MINORITARIOS, Ingenieria (Natl. Univ. of Mexico), LI (#3), 60 (1981), with P. Pastor.
THE BODY DANGEROUS: PHYSIOLOGY AND SOCIAL STRATIFICATION, Reviews in Anthropology, 9(#1), 97 (1982).
COUNTING SKULLS: COMMENT ON THE AZTEC CANNIBALISM THEORY OF HARNER-HARRIS, American Anthropologist, 45, 403 (1983).
THE ANTIBACTERIAL PROPERTIES OF AN AZTEC WOUND REMEDY, J. of Ethnopharmacology, 8, 149 (1983), with J. Davidson.
SPANISH ORIGIN POPULATION IN DETROIT ( Detroit, MI: WSU Center for Urban Studies, MIMIC, 1984) with I. Salas.
BASES FOR THE CHOICE OF HERBAL MEDICINES IN OAXACA, MEXICO, J. of Ethnopharmacology, 13, 57-88 (1985), with C. Browner.
AZTEC MEDICINAL HERBS; EVALUATION OF THERAPEUTIC EFFECTIVENESS, in N.L. Etkin, Ed., Plants in Indigenous Medicine & Diet: Biobehavioral Approaches (Bedford Hills, NY: Redgrave, 1986), 113-127.
HERBAL EMMENAGOGUES USED BY WOMEN IN COLOMBIA AND MEXICO, in N. L. Etkin, Ed., Plants in Indigenous Medicine & Diet: Biobehavioral Approaches (Bedford Hills, NY: Redgrave, 1986), p. 32-47 (with C. Browner).
AZTEC SOURCES OF SOME MEXICAN FOLK MEDICINE, in R. Steiner, Ed., Folk Medicine: the Art and the Science (Washington, D.C.: American Chemical Association, 1986), p. 1-22.
EL CONOCIMIENTO DE LA NATURALEZA ENTRE LOS MEXICAS. TAXONOMIA in A. Lopez Austin, Ed., La Historia General de la Medicina en Mexico (Mexico: Academia Nacional de Medicina & UNAM, 1984), Vol. 1, p. 115-132.
LOS PRINCIPIOS RECTORES DE LA MEDICINA ENTRE LOS MEXICAS. ETIOLOGIA, DIAGNOSTICO Y PRONOSTICO, in A. Lopez Austin, Ed., La Historia General de la Medicina en Mexico (Mexico: Academia Nacional de Medicina & UNAM, 1984), Vol. 1, p. 159-170.
ETHNOPHARMACOLOGY in S. P. Parker, ed., McGraw-Hill Yearbook of Science and Technology 1988 (NY:McGraw-Hill, 1987)pp. 311-313.
REDUCTIONIST OR HOLISTIC MEDICINE: ITS ROLE IN LATIN AMERICA, in C. Viesca Trevino, Ed., Estudios de Antropologia Medica (Mexico: UNAM, 1986) Vol. 4, 115-137.
CAIDA DE MOLLERA: AZTEC SOURCES FOR A DISEASE OF SUPPOSED SPANISH ORIGIN, Ethnohistory, 34 (#4), 381-399 (1987).
IMPROVING THE SCIENCE AND MATHEMATIC ACHIEVEMENT OF MEXICAN AMERICAN STUDENTS THROUGH CULTURALLY RELEVANT SCIENCE, Eric Digest, EDO-RC- 88-07 (March 1988) with D.I. Marinez
A METHODOLOGY FOR CROSS-CULTURAL ETHNOMEDICAL RESEARCH, Cultural Anthropology , with A. Rubel and C. Browner Current Anthropology, 29, 681-702 (1988).
FALLEN FONTANELLE IN THE SPANISH SOUTHWEST: ITS ORIGIN, EPIDEMIOLOGY, AND POSSIBLE ORGANIC CAUSES, Medical Anthropology 10 (#4): 207-217 (1988) with M. Logan and R. Trotter.
ENSEÑANZAS QUE DERIVAN DEL USO DE YERBAS MEDICINALES EN OAXACA, MEXICO in Memorias 45o Congreso Internacional de Americanistas (Bogotá, Colombia, 1985). Patrones Cognitivos: Rituales y Fiestas de las Americas (Bogotá: Ediciones Uniandes, 1988), pp. 358-367. (with C.H. Browner).
REPLY TO: H.R. FABREGA, ON RESEARCH METODOLOGY FOR ETHNOMEDICINE, Current Anthropology, 30: 347-348 (1989) with C. H. Browner and A.J. Rubel.
SYNCRETISM IN MEXICAN AND MEXICAN-AMERICAN FOLK MEDICINE 1992 Lecture Series. Working Papers #5 (College Park: Department of Spanish and Portuguese, University of Maryland, 1989).
THE BODY, ETHICS, AND THE COSMOS: AZTEC PHYSIOLOGY, in D. Carrasco,Ed., The Imagination of Matter: Religion and Ecology in Mesoamerican Religious Traditions (Oxford: BAR International Series 515, 1989). 191-210.
MESOAMERICAN RELIGIOUS TRADITION AND MEDICINE, in L.E. Sullivan, Ed., Healing and Restoring; Health and Medicine in the World's Religious Traditions (NY: Macmillan, 1989) pp. 359-394.
GHOSTS OF THE IMAGINATION; JOHN BIERHORST'S TRANSLATION OF CANTARES MEXICANOS, New Scholar, 11, 35-46 (1989). Reprinted in Tlalocan (Mexico), 11, 469-482 (1989).
MULTICULTURAL PSEUDOSCIENCE: SPREADING SCIENTIFIC ILLITERACY AMONG MINORITIES. I. Skeptical Inquirer 16 (#1): 46-50, 1991. Reprinted in Kendrick Frazer, ed. Science, Knowledge, and Belief: Encounters with the Paranormal. Bufffalo, NY: Prometheus Books. 1998. IN PRESS
MAGIC MELANIN: SPREADING SCIENTIFIC ILLITERACY AMONG MINORITIES. II. Skeptical Inquirer 16 (#2): 162-166 1992.
AVOIDING EGYPTOCENTRIC PSEUDOSCIENCE: COLLEGES MUST HELP SET STANDARDS FOR SCHOOLS. Chronicle of Higher Education. March 22, 1992, B1-2.
PAIN: A MESOAMERICAN VIEW. Advances in Nursing Science, 15 (#1), 21-32 1992. (with T. Villaruel).
EL ANALYSIS COMPARATIVO DE SISTEMAS MEDICOS, In P. Sesia, ed. Medicina tradicional, herbolaria y salud comunitaria en Oaxaca. (Oaxaca: CIESAS\Gobierno del Estado de Oaxaca, 1992), pp. 223-263. (with C. H. Browner and A. Rubel).
AFROCENTRICITY, MELANIN AND PSEUDOSCIENCE. Yearbook of Physical Anthropology 36, 33-58 (1993).
PHARAOH WAS NO EINSTEIN. Newsday, July 9, 1995, pp. A36, 38, 39.
MULTICULTURALISM, CULT ARCHAEOLOGY, AND PSEUDOSCIENCE. In F. Harrold and R. Eve, eds., Scientific Creationism and Cult Archaeology (Ames: University of Iowa Press, 1995) pp. 134-151.
AFROCENTRIC PSEUDOSCIENCE: THE MISEDUCATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS. Annals of the New York Academy of Science. 775: 561-572 (1996)
THE DOGON REVISITED. Skeptical Inquirer, (Nov./Dec): 39-42 (1996).
ROBBING NATIVE AMERICAN CULTURES: VAN SERTIMA AND THE OLMECS. Current Anthropology (with Gabriel Haslip-Viera and Warren Barbour), 38(#3): 419-441 (1997).
THEY WERE NOT HERE BEFORE COLUMBUS: AFROCENTRIC DIFFUSIONISM IN THE 1990’S. Ethnohistory 44 (#2) 1997(with Gabriel Haslip-Viera and Warren Barbour): 199-234.
POST-MODERN MULTICULTURALISM. APS Forum Physics and Society Newslettter, 24 (#4): 3-5 (1997). Reprinted in American Physical Society News 7 (#1 January) 12 (1998).
ETHNOPHARMACOLOGY OF MEXICAN ASTERACEAE (COMPOSITAE), Annual Review of Pharmacology and Toxicology 38 :539-565 (1998)(with E. Rodríguez, M. Heinrich., M. Robles, J. West).
“BLACK WARRIOR DYNASTS”:L’AFROCENTRISME ET LE NOUVEAU MONDE. In Fauvelle, F.-X., Chretien, J.-P., Perrot, C.-H. (eds.). Afrocentrismes. L’histoire des Africains entre Égypte et Amérique, 249-270 Paris: Karthala (2000).
ETHNIC POLITICS AND THE FLIGHT FROM SCIENCE. Rocky Mountain Skeptic 17 (#5): 3-4 (September 2000); reprinted in Wonder een is gheen Wonder (Belgium) IN PRESS
DISEASE, ILLNESS AND CURING. The Archaeology of Ancient Mexico and Central America: An Encyclopedia. S.L. Evans and D. L. Webster, eds. New York: Garland Publishing. 2001.
MULTICULTURAL SCIENCE: WHO BENEFITS? Science Education 85: 77-79 (2001).
LA MEDICINA AZTECA. Storia della Sciezia, Sandro Petruccioli, ed. Vol II, pp. 1019-1026. Rome: Istituto della Enciclopedia Italiana. 2001.
THE HUMAN BODY. D. Carrasco, ed. Oxford Encyclopedia of Mesoamerican Cultures, vol II, pp. 23-27 Oxford: Oxford University Press. 2001
GOOD VERSUS BAD CULTURALLY RELEVANT SCIENCE: AVOIDING THE PITFALLS (with Cathleen C. Loving) In M.S. Hines, ed. 2003. Multicultural Science Education: Theory, Practice, and Promise 147-166 N.Y: Peter Lang.
PLANT EVIDENCE FOR CONTACT BETWEEN AFRICA AND THE NEW WORLD. Posted electronically- http://www.thehallofmaat.com. June 2004.
MAGIA MEDICINAL AZTECA.. Arqueología Mexicana XII (#69): 30-33 2004.
MEDICINA Y SALUD EN MESOAMERICA Arqueologia Mexicana XIII (#74) 32-37 (2005)
Here is a review of my book
Author(s): Alfred W. Crosby Reviewed work(s): Aztec Medicine, Health, and Nutrition by Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano Source: Isis, Vol. 83, No. 3 (Sep., 1992), p. 470
quote:Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano. Aztec Medicine, Health, and Nutrition. xviii + 308 pp., illus., tables, apps., bibl., index. New Brunswick, N.J./London: Rutgers University Press, 1990. $40 (cloth); $15 (paper). This book will probably stand for years to come as the most important secondary source on its subjects. The author spends the first chapters setting the subject into a context of what we know and can surmise about the Aztecs' culture, religion, and agriculture, and, as well, about their epidemiology and nutrition relative to the latitude, altitude, and carrying capacity of the Basin of Mexico. He goes on to discuss the Aztec view of disease, its causes and cures. There are appendixes-very helpful for those interested in further research-on the nutritional values of the standard items of the Aztecs' diet and on the empirical value of their medicinal herbs. The book ends with folk medicine today, and its blend of pre- Columbian and Spanish (mostly humoral) traditions. All of these matters are controversial, from the size of the population of Meso- America when Cort6s disembarked to the ethnic origin of a given therapy offered by curanderos today. Several of the most prestigious among our experts on sixteenthcentury Mexico estimate that the Aztecs were so numerous on the eve of the conquest that malnutrition was common, so much so that they practiced cannibalism for the sake of protein as much as ritual. Bernard Ortiz de Montellano carefully analyzes all available data, referring many times to the most recent medical and nutritional research, and judges that the population was not pressing upon the carrying capacity of the area and that the people there were well nourished and quite healthy. His arguments are sophisticated, reasonable, and convincing. So, unfortunately, are the arguments of those who disagree: the historical data are not plentiful or clear. My own assessment of pre-Columbian Indian populations depends largely on whom I have read last (a pitiful admission). The central part of the book is devoted to Ortiz de Montellano's specialty, a subject on which we do have a good deal of information: the ancient and contemporary indigenous medicine of central Mexico. This discussion, in Mexico as everywhere else, involves considerable information about alleged supernatural influences. One cannot discuss the attitudes to and the treatment of leprosy in medieval Europe without reference to Christianity, and one cannot consider any number of Mexican physical and mental disorders without reference to Tlaloc, Tepoztecatl, and the like. This section of the book provides some valuable mindbroadening exercise for Europeans and Euro-Americans. The Aztec tonalli, for instance, is sort of like but a good deal unlike the Judeo-Christian soul. When the Aztecs divided up their universe for consideration and manipulation, they did not do so as we do-nor do contemporary Mexican Indians. The book ends with a fascinating and quite convincing chapter on the survival of pre-Columbian elements in Mexican folk medicine today and, as well, on the presence therein of elements borrowed from European tradition. Syncretism in medicine, as in all else, is the rule in the mestizo land of Mexico. ALFRED W. CROSBY
posted
As I said before Quetzalcoatl you made your name on the backs of Ivan and Hunter the articles in Current Anthropology, Ethnohistory and American Anthropologist discussed Afrocentrism.
You were a nobody until you pimped Afrocentrism. This is the only work you will be remembered for.
quote:
MULTICULTURAL PSEUDOSCIENCE: SPREADING SCIENTIFIC ILLITERACY AMONG MINORITIES. I. Skeptical Inquirer 16 (#1): 46-50, 1991. Reprinted in Kendrick Frazer, ed. Science, Knowledge, and Belief: Encounters with the Paranormal. Bufffalo, NY: Prometheus Books. 1998. IN PRESS
MAGIC MELANIN: SPREADING SCIENTIFIC ILLITERACY AMONG MINORITIES. II. Skeptical Inquirer 16 (#2): 162-166 1992.
AFROCENTRICITY, MELANIN AND PSEUDOSCIENCE. Yearbook of Physical Anthropology 36, 33-58 (1993).
PHARAOH WAS NO EINSTEIN. Newsday, July 9, 1995, pp. A36, 38, 39.
MULTICULTURALISM, CULT ARCHAEOLOGY, AND PSEUDOSCIENCE. In F. Harrold and R. Eve, eds., Scientific Creationism and Cult Archaeology (Ames: University of Iowa Press, 1995) pp. 134-151.
AFROCENTRIC PSEUDOSCIENCE: THE MISEDUCATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS. Annals of the New York Academy of Science. 775: 561-572 (1996)
THE DOGON REVISITED. Skeptical Inquirer, (Nov./Dec): 39-42 (1996).
ROBBING NATIVE AMERICAN CULTURES: VAN SERTIMA AND THE OLMECS. Current Anthropology (with Gabriel Haslip-Viera and Warren Barbour), 38(#3): 419-441 (1997).
THEY WERE NOT HERE BEFORE COLUMBUS: AFROCENTRIC DIFFUSIONISM IN THE 1990’S. Ethnohistory 44 (#2) 1997(with Gabriel Haslip-Viera and Warren Barbour): 199-234.
POST-MODERN MULTICULTURALISM. APS Forum Physics and Society Newslettter, 24 (#4): 3-5 (1997). Reprinted in American Physical Society News 7 (#1 January) 12 (1998).
“BLACK WARRIOR DYNASTS”:L’AFROCENTRISME ET LE NOUVEAU MONDE. In Fauvelle, F.-X., Chretien, J.-P., Perrot, C.-H. (eds.). Afrocentrismes. L’histoire des Africains entre Égypte et Amérique, 249-270 Paris: Karthala (2000).
ETHNIC POLITICS AND THE FLIGHT FROM SCIENCE. Rocky Mountain Skeptic 17 (#5): 3-4 (September 2000); reprinted in Wonder een is gheen Wonder (Belgium) IN PRESS
MULTICULTURAL SCIENCE: WHO BENEFITS? Science Education 85: 77-79 (2001).
GOOD VERSUS BAD CULTURALLY RELEVANT SCIENCE: AVOIDING THE PITFALLS (with Cathleen C. Loving) In M.S. Hines, ed. 2003. Multicultural Science Education: Theory, Practice, and Promise 147-166 N.Y: Peter Lang.
PLANT EVIDENCE FOR CONTACT BETWEEN AFRICA AND THE NEW WORLD. Posted electronically- http://www.thehallofmaat.com. June 2004.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: As I said before Quetzalcoatl you made your name on the backs of Ivan and Hunter the articles in Current Anthropology, Ethnohistory and American Anthropologist discussed Afrocentrism.
You were a nobody until you pimped Afrocentrism. This is the only work you will be remembered for.
My “fame” or “infamy” from papers on Afrocentrism extends only to Afrocentrics. Mainstream scholars don’t particularly care. The fact of the matter is that neither Ivan van Sertima nor Clyde Winters has made an impact on mainstream Olmec or Mesoamerican studies. Therefore, there is very little credit in writing critiques. Here is some empirical data Neither Van Sertima nor Clyde Winters is mentioned in the index or the bibliographies of the following:
Collections of essays on the Olmecs
Stark, B. L. and P. J. Arnold, eds. 1997 Olmec to Aztec Tucson: University of Arizona Press.
Clark, J. E. and M. E. Pye, eds. 2000 Olmec Art and Archaeology in MesoamericaNew Haven: Yale University Press
Guthrie, J. 1995 The Olmec World Ritual and Rulership Princeton, NJ: The Art Museum, Princeton University
Benson, E. P. and B. de la Fuente, eds. 1996 Olmec Art of Ancient Mexico Washington: National Gallery of Art
Clark, J. E. ed. 1994 Los Olmecas en Mesoamerica Mexico: El Equilibrista
Texts on the Olmecs
Pool, C. A. 2007 Olmec Archaeology and Early Mesoamerica Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Diehl, R. A. 2004 The Olmecs. America’s First Civilization NY: Thames & Hudson Does not mention Winters and Van Sertiima is only mentioned negatively.
p. 63
quote:The second set of sculptures contains three ColossalHeads placed in a line oriented east to west. David Grove believes they proclaim La Venta’s divine nature personified in its deified ruler, a very appropriate theme for the entrance to the dynastic center. Ivan van Sertima and other “Afrocentric” writers have recently tried to “prove” that the Olmecs were migrants from Africa with the false claims that Matthew W. Stirling found the heads gazing eastwards toward their African homeland. In reality, Stirling clearly stated that all three faced north.
General surveys Mesoamerica No mention of Van Sertima or Winters in bibliography
Evans, S. T. 2004 Ancient Mexico & Central America NY: Thames & Hudson (BOM book)
Lopez Austin, A. and L. Lopez Lujan 2001 Mexico’s Indigenous Past Norman: Univ. Oklahoma Press. [BOM book]
Coe, M. D. and R. Koontz 2002 Mexico. From the Olmecs to the Aztecs 5th ed. NY: Thames & Hudson [BOM cannibal]
Reviews
No mention of Van Sertima or Winters in bibliography
Grove, D. C. 1997 “Olmec Archaeology: A Half Century of Research and Its Accomplishments,” Journal of World Prehistory 11(1); 51-101
Diehl, R. A. 2000 “The Precolumbian Cultures of the Gulf Coast,” in Adams, R. E. W. and MacLeod, M. J. 2000 The Cambridge history of the Native Peoples of the Americas Vol. 11, part 1, pp. 156-197. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Joyce, R. A. and J.S. Henderson 2001 “Beginnings of Village Life in Eastern Mesoamerica,” Latin American Antiquity 12 (1); 5-24
Flannery, K. V. and J. Marcus 2000 “Formative Mexican Chiefdoms and the Myth of the ‘Mother Culture,” Journal of Anthropological Archaeology 19: 1-37
Winters is not mentioned in the following
Olmec writing
Meluzin, S. 1992 “The Tuxtla Script: Steps toward Decipherment Based on La Mojarra Stela 1,” Latin American Antiquity 3(4): 283-297
Macri, M. J., and L. M. Stark 1993 A sign catalog of the La Mojarra script San Francisco: Pre-Columbian Art Research Institute Monograph 5
Kaufman, T. and J. Justeson 2004 “Epi-Olmec,” in Woodard, R. D. ed. The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the World’s Ancient Languages, pp.1071-1108 Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Houston, S. D. and M.D. Coe 2003 “Has Isthmian Writing Been Deciphered?” Mexicon 25: 151-161
In books debunking Afrocentrism and/or pseudoarchaeology Van Sertima is mentioned, but not Winters’ linguistic, Olmec, Mayan etc. claims. Only one Winters’ paper is cited and it is one he is qualified to write about Winters, C. 1994 “Afrocentrism: A Valid Frame of Reference,” Journal of Black Studies 25: 170-190
Williams, S. 1991 Fantastic Archaeology Philadelphia: University Pennsylvania Press (VS)
Feder, K. L. 1999 Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries. Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology, 3rd 3Mountain View, CA: Mayfield Publishers (VS)
Fagan, G. G. 2006 Archaeological Fantasies London: Routledge (VS)
Berlinerblau, J. 1999 Heresy in the University. The Black Athena Controversy and the Responsibilities of American IntellectualsNew Brunswick: Rutgers University Press VS)(Winters 1994)
Howe, S. Afrocentrism. Mythical Pasts and Imagined HomesLondon:Verso (VS)(Winters 1994)
Davies, N. 1979 [Voyagers to the New World[/B] Albuquerque: Univ. new Mexico.
Fingerhut, E. R. 1994 Explorers of Pre-Columbian America? The Diffusionist-Inventionism ControversyClaremont, CA:Regina (VS)
Fritze, R. H. 1993 Legend and Lore of the Americas Before 1492 Denver, CO;ABC-CLIO (VS)
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Interesting that the vultures of black research and black exploitation is so profitable. Smh we just don't see how VALUABLE we are.
Posts: 152 | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
LOL, did you believe the whites on this site are here because they CARE about Africa and African resource. They wish to be the future Mary Lefkowitz and write something more then 100 people actually read.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: The fact of the matter is that neither Ivan van Sertima nor Clyde Winters has made an impact on mainstream Olmec or Mesoamerican studies.
Fact is Van Sertima did show you up as the lying scum you are de Montellano. Your only shield is the establishment. And we know from the likes of Lefkowitz et al. that having such a shield doesn't = sound scholarship.
posted
My most lasting achievement in Olmec studies was popularization of the authentic name the Olmec called themselves in books, newspaper articles and websites.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: My most lasting achievement in Olmec studies was popularization of the authentic name the Olmec called themselves in books, newspaper articles and websites.
You base your claim on a Post-Classic MAYA claim from Tozzer 1941 But the cite refers to the Tutul Xiu NOT the "Xi'.
Second point-- of the list you presented the only "mainstream" cite is the article by thomas Maugh in the LA Times. Maugh uses the Olmec=Xi but does not attribute it to you or any one else.I know maugh is wrong, but just to be surr I emailed Michael Coe see below
quote: From: OlmecC To: bortiz@ Subject: Re: Olmecs =Xi? Date: Dec 8, 2008 8:35 PM Hi Bernard --
That's baloney! (to give it a polite name). Where did this guy get the notion that the Olmec called themselves "Xi"?
That's a new one to me. Makes one wonder about these so-called science writers.
Best,
Mike
Sorry to intrude again but I saw a claim that the Olmecs called themselves "Xi". I don't think so but an article by Thomas Maugh, who writes for Science, also makes the claim
posted
I don't know why you keep trying to imply I have not made any presentations before professional organizations. I have presented papers on the Olmec at many national antropological meetings.
Winters, Clyde.(1997). The decipherment of the Olmec writing. 74th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Milwaukee. April.
____________.(1998). Jaguar kings: Olmec Royalty and religious leaders in the first person. 75th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Kansas City, Missouri. April.
___________.(1998). The Olmec Religion. 75th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Kansas City, Missouri. April.
____________.(1999). Olmec symbolism in Mayan Writing. 76th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Chicago, Illinois. April.
____________.(1999). Harappan origins of Yogi. 74th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Chicago, Illinois. April.
____________.(1999). Olmec voices: The syllabic signs. 98th Annual Meeting of the American Anthropological Association . Chicago, Illinois. November.
This shows how people like you and Coe are working overtime to attempt to get people to ignore my work but the people are recognizing my work anyway.
.
quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: My most lasting achievement in Olmec studies was popularization of the authentic name the Olmec called themselves in books, newspaper articles and websites.
You base your claim on a Post-Classic MAYA claim from Tozzer 1941 But the cite refers to the Tutul Xiu NOT the "Xi'.
Second point-- of the list you presented the only "mainstream" cite is the article by thomas Maugh in the LA Times. Maugh uses the Olmec=Xi but does not attribute it to you or any one else.I know maugh is wrong, but just to be surr I emailed Michael Coe see below
quote: From: OlmecC To: bortiz@ Subject: Re: Olmecs =Xi? Date: Dec 8, 2008 8:35 PM Hi Bernard --
That's baloney! (to give it a polite name). Where did this guy get the notion that the Olmec called themselves "Xi"?
That's a new one to me. Makes one wonder about these so-called science writers.
Best,
Mike
Sorry to intrude again but I saw a claim that the Olmecs called themselves "Xi". I don't think so but an article by Thomas Maugh, who writes for Science, also makes the claim
quote:Clyde: but the people are recognizing my work anyway.
Yea as pseudo science, and nothing more. Lol
You're not an Afro-centrist, rather an pseudocentrist. Because when we have people like you Clyde, then we will always be brushed off as nothing more than crazy Afro-centrsts. All anyone has to do is read your nonsense, and they dismiss everything. Please stop, or atleast make a REAL correlation, because your distortion of genetics and anthropology are seriously becoming more and more pseudoscientific by the day.
If you actually made sense, I would be glad to promote your work.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Yea as pseudo science, and nothing more.... All anyone has to do is read your nonsense, and they dismiss everything. Please stop, or atleast make a REAL correlation, because your distortion of genetics and anthropology are seriously becoming more and more pseudoscientific by the day
^ is this a confession on your part whiskey? Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Yea as pseudo science, and nothing more.... All anyone has to do is read your nonsense, and they dismiss everything. Please stop, or atleast make a REAL correlation, because your distortion of genetics and anthropology are seriously becoming more and more pseudoscientific by the day
^ is this a confession on your part whiskey?
I've already intellectually beaten you down, you copycatting unoriginal jackass. When will you get off my nuts?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: I don't know why you keep trying to imply I have not made any presentations before professional organizations. I have presented papers on the Olmec at many national antropological meetings.
Winters, Clyde.(1997). The decipherment of the Olmec writing. 74th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Milwaukee. April.
____________.(1998). Jaguar kings: Olmec Royalty and religious leaders in the first person. 75th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Kansas City, Missouri. April.
___________.(1998). The Olmec Religion. 75th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Kansas City, Missouri. April.
____________.(1999). Olmec symbolism in Mayan Writing. 76th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Chicago, Illinois. April.
____________.(1999). Harappan origins of Yogi. 74th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Chicago, Illinois. April.
____________.(1999). Olmec voices: The syllabic signs. 98th Annual Meeting of the American Anthropological Association . Chicago, Illinois. November.
This shows how people like you and Coe are working overtime to attempt to get people to ignore my work but the people are recognizing my work anyway.
I'm sure Mike Coe is far too busy doing anthropology to bother trying to "get people to ignore your work." If "people are ignoring your work" they are doing it on their own. If anything, what I do is to try to get people to know about your work
What I wrote about above was the fact that your ideas were not making an impact in academic publications on the Olmec and Mesoamerica in general.
As you know, but perhaps other readers don't, is that presentations at meetings are not peer reviewed and are not published. BTW were your presentations poster sessions or part of arranged sessions? If they were arranged sessions, what were the titles of the sessions and the other papers?
If you are so proud of your work on the Mande, Olmec, etc., why aren't these papers listed on the vita you post at work? Here is the vita you post at Governor's State University:
Academic Credentials: Ph.D. Loyola University, 2000, Educational Psychology Minors: Research Methods; Special Education; Curriculum and Instruction M.S. Chicago State University, 1994, Education - Special Education M.A. University of Illinois, 1973, Social Science B.A. University of Illinois, 1973, Sociology/History
Research Interests: Brain-based learning, educational linguistics and student attributions
Publications and Presentations: Books: Career Development Activies for Language Arts and Social Studies (6th Grade Social Studies Lessons). Chicago: Chicago Public Schools, 1998. Structured Curriculum Handbook A Resource Guide for Grade Six Social Science First Semester. Chicago: Chicago Public Schools, 1999. Expecting More: Program of Study Grades 9& 10 Social Science. Chicago: Chicago Board of Education, 1997. Expecting More: Program of Study Grades 6, 7& 8 Social Science. Chicago: Chicago Board of Education, 1998.
Recent Articles:
Brain based learning and special education. In Thomas E. Deering (Ed.), Teacher Education (pp.128-167), Anu Books, Shivaji Road, Meerut India (ISBN: 81-85126-91-7). Popular culture, critical pedagogy and the African American Print Media". In James J Van Patten (Ed.) The future of Education Issues & Trends (pp.164-184), Anu Books, Shivaji Road, Meerut India (ISBN: 81-85126-102-7) Emotion, neurobiological learning and classroom instruction, Research Journal of Philosophy and Social Science,No.1-2, pp.23-34.
Recent Presentations: Computer Savvy:Parent Attitudes Towards Technology, Poster Presentation: Illinois Technology Conference for Educators, February 28 (2003), Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois. Using technology for problem based social studies projects. Presentation: Illinois Technology Conference for Educators, February 28 (2003),Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois. A Walk Down Memory Lane: Exploring Community History via the Standards. Presentation: Connections Conference, April 16, 2003.Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois. Informed Insight:Parental Attitudes toward technology. Presentation: AERA 2003 Annual Meeting, April 2003. Chicago, Illinois. Clyde Winters, A Walk Down Memory Lane. Presentation Creative Classrooms 2003. September 2003. Chicago, Illinois. Mi Casa,Su Casa:The role of Latino Social Service Centers as an Adjunct to Professional Counseling, September 2003. University of Illinois, Urbana, Illinois. Intimate Voices: Teacher Emic and Etic views of ESL. Midwest Philosophy of Education Society Annual Conference. November 2003, Chicago State University: Chicago, Illinois.
Why don't you list the Afrocentric agenda as a part of your "research agenda" and your list of publications would be much longer if you listed all your other publications.
BTW is "University lecturer" a tenured position?
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: I don't know why you keep trying to imply I have not made any presentations before professional organizations. I have presented papers on the Olmec at many national antropological meetings.
Winters, Clyde.(1997). The decipherment of the Olmec writing. 74th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Milwaukee. April.
____________.(1998). Jaguar kings: Olmec Royalty and religious leaders in the first person. 75th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Kansas City, Missouri. April.
___________.(1998). The Olmec Religion. 75th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Kansas City, Missouri. April.
____________.(1999). Olmec symbolism in Mayan Writing. 76th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Chicago, Illinois. April.
____________.(1999). Harappan origins of Yogi. 74th Annual Meeting Central States Anthropological Society, Chicago, Illinois. April.
____________.(1999). Olmec voices: The syllabic signs. 98th Annual Meeting of the American Anthropological Association . Chicago, Illinois. November.
This shows how people like you and Coe are working overtime to attempt to get people to ignore my work but the people are recognizing my work anyway.
I'm sure Mike Coe is far too busy doing anthropology to bother trying to "get people to ignore your work." If "people are ignoring your work" they are doing it on their own. If anything, what I do is to try to get people to know about your work
What I wrote about above was the fact that your ideas were not making an impact in academic publications on the Olmec and Mesoamerica in general.
As you know, but perhaps other readers don't, is that presentations at meetings are not peer reviewed and are not published. BTW were your presentations poster sessions or part of arranged sessions? If they were arranged sessions, what were the titles of the sessions and the other papers?
If you are so proud of your work on the Mande, Olmec, etc., why aren't these papers listed on the vita you post at work? Here is the vita you post at Governor's State University:
Academic Credentials: Ph.D. Loyola University, 2000, Educational Psychology Minors: Research Methods; Special Education; Curriculum and Instruction M.S. Chicago State University, 1994, Education - Special Education M.A. University of Illinois, 1973, Social Science B.A. University of Illinois, 1973, Sociology/History
Research Interests: Brain-based learning, educational linguistics and student attributions
Publications and Presentations: Books: Career Development Activies for Language Arts and Social Studies (6th Grade Social Studies Lessons). Chicago: Chicago Public Schools, 1998. Structured Curriculum Handbook A Resource Guide for Grade Six Social Science First Semester. Chicago: Chicago Public Schools, 1999. Expecting More: Program of Study Grades 9& 10 Social Science. Chicago: Chicago Board of Education, 1997. Expecting More: Program of Study Grades 6, 7& 8 Social Science. Chicago: Chicago Board of Education, 1998.
Recent Articles:
Brain based learning and special education. In Thomas E. Deering (Ed.), Teacher Education (pp.128-167), Anu Books, Shivaji Road, Meerut India (ISBN: 81-85126-91-7). Popular culture, critical pedagogy and the African American Print Media". In James J Van Patten (Ed.) The future of Education Issues & Trends (pp.164-184), Anu Books, Shivaji Road, Meerut India (ISBN: 81-85126-102-7) Emotion, neurobiological learning and classroom instruction, Research Journal of Philosophy and Social Science,No.1-2, pp.23-34.
Recent Presentations: Computer Savvy:Parent Attitudes Towards Technology, Poster Presentation: Illinois Technology Conference for Educators, February 28 (2003), Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois. Using technology for problem based social studies projects. Presentation: Illinois Technology Conference for Educators, February 28 (2003),Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois. A Walk Down Memory Lane: Exploring Community History via the Standards. Presentation: Connections Conference, April 16, 2003.Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois. Informed Insight:Parental Attitudes toward technology. Presentation: AERA 2003 Annual Meeting, April 2003. Chicago, Illinois. Clyde Winters, A Walk Down Memory Lane. Presentation Creative Classrooms 2003. September 2003. Chicago, Illinois. Mi Casa,Su Casa:The role of Latino Social Service Centers as an Adjunct to Professional Counseling, September 2003. University of Illinois, Urbana, Illinois. Intimate Voices: Teacher Emic and Etic views of ESL. Midwest Philosophy of Education Society Annual Conference. November 2003, Chicago State University: Chicago, Illinois.
Why don't you list the Afrocentric agenda as a part of your "research agenda" and your list of publications would be much longer if you listed all your other publications.
BTW is "University lecturer" a tenured position?
You're full of it as usual. You can not present a paper at a conference unless is is reviewed by your peers before it is allowed on the program. These presentations were all papers, not posters.
The programs are on-line if you desire further details.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [Q]You're full of it as usual. You can not present a paper at a conference unless is is reviewed by your peers before it is allowed on the program. These presentations were all papers, not posters.
The programs are on-line if you desire further details.
.
Not only have I presented a number of times at different national meetings (Am Anthropological Association, Am. Assoc, for the Advancement of Science) not regional meetings like the Central States-- where my graduate students went to practice, but I organized sessions. They are NOT "peer reviewed" like journal articles and they are not published.
I would love to see the URLs of these sessions. I looked and could not get the AAA 1999 Meeting Abstracts on line for example.
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by akoben: ^ did you debate van sertima at those "national meetings" bernard?
As I pointed out earlier my academic reputation was made before I wrote about Van Sertima. Most of the papers presented at these meetings dealt with my work on Aztec medicine.
I did do some presentations on "Afrocentric science" but there wasn't enough interest in the Anthropological Association to get the African-Olmec connection on the program although I organized and proposed a session on this.
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by akoben: I never asked you about your condescending proposal of "Afrocentric science". Did you debate Van Sertima, yes or no?
especially after he showed you up as a slimy lying weasel.
As I have repeatedly shown here, to adequately deal with claims such as Winters' and Van Sertima's requires extensive research to find and document accurately what sources actually say. This means that the proper way to "debate" is in writing.
As to who has been exposed. One of many possible examples
Van Sertima 1998 Early America Revisited regarding our 1997 paper G. Haslip-Viera, B. R. Ortiz de Montellano and W. Barbour, "Robbing Native American Cultures: Van Sertima and the Olmecs," Current Anthropology, 38 (#3): 419-441 (1997) says:
quote: p. 138 VS LIE SEVEN “They indulge in an even more vicious dishonesty with regard to cotton, claiming that I said ‘Old World cottons came to America with a fleet of Nubians circa 700 B.C.’ I never linked cotton transfer to Nubian contact.”
What we actually wrote (1997: 429) says
quote: “Van Sertima (1976: 180-191; 1992) argues based on Stephens (1966), that cotton seeds would not float and retain their viability long enough to cross the Atlantic or the Pacific, although they could make journeys of up to 1000 miles. He then argues that the "seeds of the African diploid cotton could not [emphasis original] have drifted by themselves across the ocean but had to come to the New World in the hands of African men.... that African man, bearing cotton, made a drift journey to the Americas in the fourth millennium B. C. (Van Sertima 1976: 190)." [footnote 28].
footnote 28 says
quote: It is hard to see how a purely conjectural cotton-bearing voyage (from where?, or on what conceivable vessel?) in the 4th millennium B.C. supports or proves Egypto-Nubian contact in 700 B.C.”
What an honest scholar would do would be to actually go to Van Sertima's book They Came Before Columbus p. 180-191 especially p. 190 And to our paper p. 429 AND footnote 28 and see who is quoting accurately.
Further, in the 1997 paper we proved that Van Sertima's claims that Africans brought cotton to the New World were erroneous
quote: p. 437 Recent work on cotton completely eliminates any possibility of human involvement in the hybridization of New World cotton. Wendel and co-workers (Wendel 1989,Percy and Wendel 1990, Wendel and Albert 1992) have proved that the hybridization of diploid African cottons and diploid New World cottons resulting in the tetraploid cottons found in the New World, claimed as evidence for diffusion, took place before the emergence humans, 1 to 2 million years ago.
Van Sertima does not mention this.
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Look man, don't talk rubbish. Academics do open debates as well as writing. You just don't want to suffer the same fate that Sephen Howe, Mary Lefkowitz and Rogers suffered. You don't want to be exposed as the lying weasel you are. So you prefer to hide behind the establishment to twist, lie, insult and block free and objective exchange of ideas.
Nice nit picking by the way, but you were linking it to the Egypto-Nubian contact in 700 B.C. but p. 190 he was not. And you are accused of even bigger omissions. In any event he revised a lot of his work in Early America Revisited. Do you still see ancient Egypt as not black? You still have racist nineteenth century Coonian views on "true negroes" and what not? Do yo still think tools were too blunt to make straight noses etc? Or was that Coe.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: Why don't you list the Afrocentric agenda as a part of your "research agenda" and your list of publications would be much longer if you listed all your other publications.
BTW is "University lecturer" a tenured position?
Lecturer is not a tenured publication.
I don't list all of my publications because there is not enough room in the format of the Faculty List.
Below is a list of my publications in Educational Psychology, Research Methods, and Learning. One of my major interest is Brain Based Learning.
PUBLICATIONS Books Clyde Winters, Brain Based Learning and Special Education, Shivaji Road, Meerut (India): Anu Books,2004.
_____________, Career Development Activies for Language Arts and Social Studies (6th Grade Social Studies Lessons). Chicago: Chicago Public Schools, 1998.
_____________, Structured Curriculum Handbook A Resource Guide for Grade Six Social Science First Semester. Chicago: Chicago Public Schools, 1999.
______________, (Program of Study Committee).Expecting More: Program of Study Grades 9& 10 Social Science. Chicago: Chicago Board of Education, 1997.
______________, (Program of Study Committee).Expecting More: Program of Study Grades 6, 7& 8 Social Science. Chicago: Chicago Board of Education, 1998.
I participated in the development of the second edition of: A.A. Glatthorn, F. Boschee, and B.M. Whitehead, Curriculum Leadership: Strategies for development and Implementation (see: pg.xxiv).
Articles
Clyde A. Winters,"Contemporary Trends in Traditional Chinese Islamic Education". INTERNATIONAL REVIEW OF EDUCATION, 30(4):475 479. ___________________. 1987. "Koranic Education and Militant Islam in Nigeria". INTERNATIONAL REVIEW OF EDUCATION, 33(2):171 185. ___________________. 1987b. "Traditional and contemporary Trends in Chinese Muslim Education",MUSLIM EDUCATION QUARTERLY ,4(4):52 65. ___________________. 1988. "Contemporary Trends in Chinese Muslim Education". MUSLIM EDUCATION QUARTERLY,4(4):52 65.
___________________. 1988b. "ISLAMIZATION AND EDUCATION IN MUSLIM CHINA".THE MUSLIM WORLD LEAGUE JOURNAL, 15:18 23. ___________________. 1988c. "Psychology Test and Black Police Recruits",LABOR LAW JOURNAL, 39(9):634 636. ___________________. 1988d. "Police Quotas", CHICAGO TRIBUNE,9 December,Sec.1, p.26.
___________________. 1989. "Psychology Test, Suits and Minority Applicants", THE POLICE JOURNAL,LXll (l):22 30.
__________________. 1989b. "Chicago Female Police", THE POLICE JOURNAL,LXll (2):136 142. __________________. 1990. "Problems of Variance in the Utility of the MMPI in the Selection of Metropolitan Police",THE POLICE JOURNAL,LXlll (2):121 128.
___________________. 1991. "Informal Assessment of Special Needs Adults and K W L Plus in Correctional Education". ADULT EDUCATION Connection 4(3):5. ___________________. 1991b. "Hispanics and Policing in Chicago and Cook County, Illinois". THE POLICE JOURNAL, LXlV (l):71 75. Mathews,M &________. 1992. Bibliotherapy and the Life centered curriculum for Offender populations in prison, Yearbook of Correctional Education, pp. 61-68. ___________________. 1993. "A Theoretical Model for Correctional Education in the U.S.". THE POLICE JOURNAL,LXVI (2):211-219. -----------------, et al. 1993. "The Role of a Computer-Managed Instructional System's Prescriptive Curriculum in the Basic Skills Areas of Math and Reading Scores for Correctional Pre-Trial Detainees". THE JOURNAL OF CORRECTIONAL EDUCATION, 44(1):10-19. ----------------.1993. "The Therapeutic use of the Essay in Corrections", JOURNAL OF CORRECTIONAL EDUCATION,44(2):58-61. ----------,et al..1993. "An Education Policy for Large Jail Programs:A Case Study". THE JOURNAL OF CORRECTIONAL EDUCATION, 44, (3): 124-133. -------------------.1993. "Making Math Easy for the Unique Learner".ADULT & CONTINUING EDUCATION TODAY,XXIII (10):5.
------------------.1994. "Non-Standard English and Reading". ERIC Clearinghouse on Reading, English and Communication. ED 358 438. 13 pp. __________________.1994. "The Application of Neurobiological Research in Special Education Instruction". Special Issue: Knowledge Production and Educational Change for Democratic Renewal, PART II: Implications for Educational Policy: Transforming Educational Practice. Thresholds in Education, 20 (2 & 3), 36-42.
_________________.1995a. "Inmate Opinions Towards Education and Participation in Prison Education Programmes". The Police Journal, LXVII, 39-50.
_________________.1995b. IACEA Survey of correctional educators. Keeping Pace, (Newsletter Illinois Adult and Continuing Educators Association,Inc.) 13 (1), Spring, p.15.
________________.1995c. Neurobiological Learning and Adult Literacy, ERIC Clearinghouse on Reading & Communication Skills. ED 385 740.
________________.1995d. Gang's, Drugs and Violence. Teacher's Guide. Chicago: Gangs, Drugs and Violence Prevention Consultants. ________________.1996a. "Adult Math Learning Difficulty Among Offender Students". The Criminologist 20, (2), 75-80.
_________________.1996c. "The Effects of Never-married Parenthood on Offender Non-marital Fatherhood". Police Journal LXIX (3), 262-265.
________________.1996d. "Adult Learning and Multisensory Teaching. ERIC Clearinghouse . ED 393 966. 16p.
________________.1996e. Concentrations of Poverty and Urban Gangs. The Criminologist, 20 (4), 217-228.
________________.1996f. Foundations of the Afrocentric Ancient History Curriculum, The Negro Educational Review, XLVII (3-4), 214-217.
________________.1997. Learning Disabilities, Crime, Delinquency, and Special Education Placement. Adolescence , 32 (126), 451-62. _______________. 1998. Urban American youth and correctional education.The Criminologist, 22(1), 15-20.
_____________. 1998a.Ebonics and special education placement. The Negro Educational Review, 19 (1-2), 83-86. ____________. 1998b.Communication theory and its implication for teaching and offender rehabilitation. The Criminologist, 22 (3),131-136. ___________.1998.Dewey, correctional education and offender habilitation.Police Journal, 59(6), 341-348.
___________.2000."Making math easy for the learning disabled adolescents: Neurobiology and the use of math manipulatives. Review Journal of Philosophy and Social Science, 25 (1&2), 58-68.
___________.2000. Neurological Basis Cognition, Emotion and Classroom Instruction. Research Journal of Philosophy and Social Sciences, 25 (1&2), 39-44.
___________.2002. Brain based learning and special education. In Thomas E. Deering (Ed.), Teacher Education (pp.128-167), Anu Books, Shivaji Road, Meerut India (ISBN: 81-85126-91-7).
____________.2003. Popular culture, critical pedagogy and the African American Print Media". In James J Van Patten (Ed.) The future of Education Issues & Trends (pp.164-184), Anu Books, Shivaji Road, Meerut India (ISBN: 81-85126-102-7)
____________.(2003). Emotion, neurobiological learning and classroom instruction, Research Journal of Philosophy and Social Science,No.1-2, pp.23-34.
____________.(2005). Teaching matters: Phonological Brain based teaching methods and reading improvement. Research Journal Philosophy & Social Science, 31 (1-2), 33-46.
____________.(2005). Dewey and the organization of learning on the World Wide Web. In Midwest Philosophy of Education Society: Proceedings of Midwest Philosophy of Education Society Annual Conferences 2001-2003, (ED.) O. Jagusah, D. Smith, A. Makedon (pp. 565-575). Author House, Bloomington, IN. 47403.
____________.(2005). Predator or Victim:The role of correctional education, offender habitation and democracy. In Midwest Philosophy of Education Society: Proceedings of Midwest Philosophy of Education Society Annual Conferences 2001-2003, (ED.) O. Jagusah, D. Smith, A. Makedon (pp. 576-593). Author House, Bloomington, IN. 47403.
_____________.(2005). Infusing an international curriculum in the Division of Education.Paul Keys (Ed.), Globalization and Education:The University in the Interdependent World of the Twenty-First Century (pp.13-18). Occasional Papers. International Colloquium Governors State University May 2004. University PK., Illinois: Governors State University.
_____________.(2006). E-Pedagogy and the Student Social Science Research Community. Review Journal of Philosophy and Social Science, 31, 1&2, 75-104.
___________(2007).Ignite Student Learning:Insights from a Neurologist and Classroom Teacher, in the TCRecord , 16 February 2007.
____________(2007).Planning for Disaster Education Policy in the Wake of Hurricane Katrina, Multicultural Education,15(2) (2007): 39-42
CONFERENCE PRESENTATIONS
"Learning Disabilities and Correctional Education",13th Annual Illinois Adult and Continuing Education Association (IACEA), March 27,1992. Oak Brook, Illinois.
"Making Math Easy for the Learning Disabled",Partnerships for Literacy X Conference, February 3,1993. Chicago, Illinois.
"One + One= Success: Hands On Math for Adult Learners", 14th Annual IACEA Conference, March 23, 1993. Springfield, Ill.
"Creating High Interest Reading Materials for the Older ABE Student",2nd Annual Adult Learning Skills Program Conference, April 17, 1993. Chicago.
"Communication Theory and Its Implications for Teaching and Offender Rehabilitation", International Correctional Education Association 48th Annual Conference, July 13,1993 . Chicago.
"The Applications of Neurobiological Research to Special Education Instruction", 3rd Annual Research Symposium, Thresholds in Education Foundation, October 8,1993. Northern Illinois University, Dekalb, Illinois.
"Enriching the Multicultural World and U.S. History Curriculum" , Multicultural Forum, The Chicago Teachers Union, February 22, 1995. Chicago, Illinois.
"The Potential of the Neurobiological Knowledge Base on the Education of Individuals with Learning Disabilities, 17th International Conference on Learning Disabilities, October 27, 1995. Chicago.
"Resources on Islam in Central Asia", Resources for Central Asian Studies workshop on Contemporary Methodologies, May 19, 1996. Ohio State University: Middle East Studies Center. Columbus Ohio.
"Egyptian Tour", Creative Classrooms. September 27, 1997. Chicago Foundation for Education. Chicago Illinois.
"Biblioconscientization and Multicultural Literacy", 19th International Conference on Learning Disabilities, October 25, 1997. Arlington, Virginia.
"A Multicultural/ Global View of Good Teaching", Education and Social Transition in a Global Society, November 1, 1997. Midwest Comparative and International Education Society Conference. University of Illinois. Urbana, Illinois.
"Vygotsky, Biblioconscientioustization and the role of training Pre-Service teachers in the Social Transition of Contemporary Students in a Global Society", November 2,1997.Midwest Comparative and International Education Society Conference . University of Illinois. Urbana, Cognition, Dewey, and the Organization of Teacher Education and Small Schools", Midwest Philosophy of Education Society Annual Conference: November 7, 1998. Loyola University Chicago. "Cognition, Dewey and the organization of teacher education in Small Schools", Midwest Philosophy of Education Society, 7 November 1998, Loyola University, Chicago.
"Dewey Correctional education, and Offender habilitation", Midwest Philosophy of Education Society, 6 November 1998, Loyola University, Chicago.
"Brain-based methods for teaching math", CPS 5th Annual Miniconference Under the Umbrella, 22 January 1999, Malcolm X College, Chicago.
"Olmec Symbolism in Mayan Writing", Panel: Mexico and Guatemala: Invented Traditions and Abiding Symbols. Central States Anthropological Society, 16 April 1999, Chicago.
"Harappan Origins of Yoga", Panel Religion and the Sacred Self. The Anthropology of Religion Section of the AAA, 17 April 1999, Chicago.
"Young People Accessing Future Careers", Connections’99, 20 April 1999, Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles, Illinois.
"The potential impact of the neurobiological knowledge base in the Education of the Learning Disabled", Roundtable: Brain and Education, American Educational Research Association, 23 April 1999, Montreal, Canada.
"Wings to the World of Social Studies", Area VII Hub Technology Leadership & Mentors Conference,24 September, Chicago,Illinois.
"Corey H Inclusion and School Change", 21st International Conference on Learning Disabilities, 16 October 1999, Minneapolis, Minnesota.
"Wings to the Afrocentric Internet World", Chicago Public Schools Rising to the Challenge Annual Professional Development Conference, Navy Pier, 29 October 1999, Chicago, Illinois.
"Rocket to Success", ICE Educational Technology Conference '99, 12 November 1999, Naperville, Illinois. "Music Across the Ages", Creative Classroom 2000 Workshop: September 9, 2000.
"Internet to Teach Community History", Illinois Education and Technology Conference: October 16, 2000. Springfield , Illinois.
"The Sky's No Limit:Students making their Own Business", Illinois Education and Technology Conference: October 16, 2000. Springfield , Illinois.
"Motivations behind Inmate Participation in Correctional Education Programs", Mid-Western Educational Research Association Conference: October 26, 2000, Chicago, Illinois.
Clyde Winters,Computer Savvy:Parent Attitudes Towards Technology, Poster Presentation: Illinois Technology Conference for Educators, February 28 (2003), Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois.
Clyde Winters, Using technology for problem based social studies projects. Presentation: Illinois Technology Conference for Educators, February 28 (2003),Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois.
Clyde Winters, A Walk Down Memory Lane: Exploring Community History via the Standards. Presentation: Connections Conference, April 16, 2003.Pheasant Run Resort, St. Charles Illinois.
Clyde Winters,Informed Insight:Parental Attitudes toward technology. Presentation: AERA 2003 Annual Meeting, April 2003. Chicago, Illinois. Clyde Winters, A Walk Down Memory Lane. Presentation Creative Classrooms 2003. September 2003. Chicago, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, Mi Casa,Su Casa:The role of Latino Social Service Centers as an Adjunct to Professional Counseling, September 2003. University of Illinois, Urbana, Illinois.
Clyde Winters , Intimate Voices: Teacher Emic and Etic views of ESL. Midwest Philosophy of Education Society Annual Conference. November 2003, Chicago State University: Chicago, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, Using Computers to prepare exceptional children For the World of Work, February 2004. Illinois Technology Conference for Educators, Pheasant Run, St.Charles, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, Student Attitudes on Hands –on Science. February 2004. Illinois Technology Conference for Educators, Pheasant Run, St.Charles, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, Teaching for Substance: Brain based Teaching and Special Students, 2004 Connections Conference, April 2004, February 2004, Pheasant Run, St.Charles, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, Brain based teaching: Back to the Basics. 2005 Illinois Technology Conference for Educators. Pheasant Run, St.Charles, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, A sociocultural view of technology and learning:Coming to grips with the digital divide.Technology & Knowledge in an Open Society, February 2005, Berkeley, California.
Clyde Winters, Teacher self-efficacy and emotional intelligence, 2005 Midwest Philosophy of Education Society, November 2005, National Louis University, Chicago, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, From Chaos to Order: Coping with educational challenges after natural disasters or a terrorist attack. Illinois Association of Teacher Educators 35th Annual Fall Conference, November 2005, Eastern Illinois University, Charleston, Illinois.
Clyde Winters,Race and Identity:Ancient relations between Africans and Mexicans.Vernacular Colloquium 2005. October 2005, The Universidad de las Americas Puebla, Puebla, Mexico.
Clyde Winters, Keepin’ it Real: Using Technology in Concert with Emotional Intelligence and Empathy to Promote Student Achievement. IL-TCE: Illinois Computing Educators 2006 Conference.March 3,2006, Pheasant Run Resort & Convention Center, St. Charles, Illinois.
Clyde Winters,Flamin’ Hots and Soda Pop: Addressing Issues of Obesity in the Schools. IL-TCE: Illinois Computing Educators 2006 Conference.March 3,2006, Pheasant Run Resort & Convention Center, St. Charles, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, Using Emotion to Motivate Students to Learn. 2006 Connections Conference. April 12,2006. Crowne Plaza Hotel, Springfield, Illinois.
Clyde Winters,Teacher Perspectives on Global Education.Poster Session 1. IL-TCE: Illinois Computing Educators 2007 Conference.March 2,2007, Pheasant Run Resort & Convention Center, St. Charles, Illinois.
Clyde Winters, Using Computers in the implementation of Differentiated Instruction in the Intermediate Classroom. IL-TCE: Illinois Computing Educators 2007 Conference.March 2,2007, Pheasant Run Resort & Convention Center, St. Charles, Illinois.
Clyde Winters,Planning for Disaster. American Educational Research Association, 2007 Annual Meeting. April 9,2007. Chicago, Illinois.
quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: I would love to see the URLs of these sessions. I looked and could not get the AAA 1999 Meeting Abstracts on line for example.
Here is the Program
Note that the program says "Reviewed by archaeology Division".
quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: Why don't you list the Afrocentric agenda as a part of your "research agenda" and your list of publications would be much longer if you listed all your other publications.
BTW is "University lecturer" a tenured position?
Lecturer is not a tenured publication.
I don't list all of my publications because there is not enough room in the format of the Faculty List.
Below is a list of my publications in Educational Psychology, Research Methods, and Learning. One of my major interest is Brain Based Learning.
[list] [*]PUBLICATIONS Books Clyde Winters, Brain Based Learning and Special Education, Shivaji Road, Meerut (India): Anu Books,2004.
_____________, Career Development Activies for Language Arts and Social Studies (6th Grade Social Studies Lessons). Chicago: Chicago Public Schools, 1998.
_____________, Structured Curriculum Handbook A Resource Guide for Grade Six Social Science First Semester. Chicago: Chicago Public Schools, 1999.
______________, (Program of Study Committee).Expecting More: Program of Study Grades 9& 10 Social Science. Chicago: Chicago Board of Education, 1997.
______________, (Program of Study Committee).Expecting More: Program of Study Grades 6, 7& 8 Social Science. Chicago: Chicago Board of Education, 1998.
I participated in the development of the second edition of: A.A. Glatthorn, F. Boschee, and B.M. Whitehead, Curriculum Leadership: Strategies for development and Implementation (see: pg.xxiv).
Articles
Clyde A. Winters,"Contemporary Trends in Traditional Chinese Islamic Education". INTERNATIONAL REVIEW OF EDUCATION, 30(4):475 479. ___________________. 1987. "Koranic Education and Militant Islam in Nigeria". INTERNATIONAL REVIEW OF EDUCATION, 33(2):171 185. ___________________. 1987b. "Traditional and contemporary Trends in Chinese Muslim Education",MUSLIM EDUCATION QUARTERLY ,4(4):52 65. ___________________. 1988. "Contemporary Trends in Chinese Muslim Education". MUSLIM EDUCATION QUARTERLY,4(4):52 65.
___________________. 1988b. "ISLAMIZATION AND EDUCATION IN MUSLIM CHINA".THE MUSLIM WORLD LEAGUE JOURNAL, 15:18 23. ___________________. 1988c. "Psychology Test and Black Police Recruits",LABOR LAW JOURNAL, 39(9):634 636. ___________________. 1988d. "Police Quotas", CHICAGO TRIBUNE,9 December,Sec.1, p.26.
___________________. 1989. "Psychology Test, Suits and Minority Applicants", THE POLICE JOURNAL,LXll (l):22 30.
__________________. 1989b. "Chicago Female Police", THE POLICE JOURNAL,LXll (2):136 142. __________________. 1990. "Problems of Variance in the Utility of the MMPI in the Selection of Metropolitan Police",THE POLICE JOURNAL,LXlll (2):121 128.
___________________. 1991. "Informal Assessment of Special Needs Adults and K W L Plus in Correctional Education". ADULT EDUCATION Connection 4(3):5. ___________________. 1991b. "Hispanics and Policing in Chicago and Cook County, Illinois". THE POLICE JOURNAL, LXlV (l):71 75. Mathews,M &________. 1992. Bibliotherapy and the Life centered curriculum for Offender populations in prison, Yearbook of Correctional Education, pp. 61-68. ___________________. 1993. "A Theoretical Model for Correctional Education in the U.S.". THE POLICE JOURNAL,LXVI (2):211-219. -----------------, et al. 1993. "The Role of a Computer-Managed Instructional System's Prescriptive Curriculum in the Basic Skills Areas of Math and Reading Scores for Correctional Pre-Trial Detainees". THE JOURNAL OF CORRECTIONAL EDUCATION, 44(1):10-19. ----------------.1993. "The Therapeutic use of the Essay in Corrections", JOURNAL OF CORRECTIONAL EDUCATION,44(2):58-61. ----------,et al..1993. "An Education Policy for Large Jail Programs:A Case Study". THE JOURNAL OF CORRECTIONAL EDUCATION, 44, (3): 124-133.
I just found it interesting that you did not list your Afrocentric research as one of your research areas.
All these publications and no tenure Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: I would love to see the URLs of these sessions. I looked and could not get the AAA 1999 Meeting Abstracts on line for example.
Here is the Program
Note that the program says "Reviewed by archaeology Division".
This is peer review.
Quetzalcoatl You Great Deciever.....You.
.
Thanks. it wasn't on line. What was your talk about? Do you have the abstract available. Did you read the "Olmec signs" in Mande using Vai script?
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by akoben: Look man, don't talk rubbish. Academics do open debates as well as writing. You just don't want to suffer the same fate that Sephen Howe, Mary Lefkowitz and Rogers suffered. You don't want to be exposed as the lying weasel you are. So you prefer to hide behind the establishment to twist, lie, insult and block free and objective exchange of ideas.
You misunderstand what I've tried to do. What I want to do is to publish articles in as prestigious referred journals as I can because that gives them academic credibility. My intended audience are Mesoamerican scholars to provide them with copiously documented rebuttals of inaccurate claims. Most working Mesoamerican scholars don't have the time or inclination to do the labor intensive work of digging up all the obscure and/obsolete references. Researching and publishing about Mesoamerica is what provides academic rewards and credit. As I mentioned before, there is little academic credit to what I do in this area. My problem, for example, with regard to Winters' work is that I haven't been able to figure out where to publish it. It was hard enough to get Current Anthropology to publish our Van Sertima article and, furthermore, most journals will not give me the number of pages that would be needed. Eventually, it may have to be a book, if I can convince an academic press.
quote:Nice nit picking by the way, but you were linking it to the Egypto-Nubian contact in 700 B.C. but p. 190 he was not. And you are accused of even bigger omissions. In any event he revised a lot of his work in Early America Revisited. Do you still see ancient Egypt as not black? You still have racist nineteenth century Coonian views on "true negroes" and what not? Do yo still think tools were too blunt to make straight noses etc? Or was that Coe.
We were not "linking Egypto-Nubian" the exact opposite we said that the argument about African cotton did not provide evidence of a trip in 700 BC.
Van Sertima did revise his argument. He shifted the date of the contact with the New World because the colossal Olmec heads had been dated to 1100 BC and thus would have been made several hundred years BEFORE the presumed contact at 700 BC. However, this causes a different problem. Egypt had not erected pyramids for several hundred years by 1100 and could not have been the model for Mesoamerican pyramids. Van Sertima had argued that by 700 BC there were Nubian pyramids as models.
Van Sertima also introduced new material but it was also problematic for instance, from a different publication of mine:
guanín Van Sertima (1995; 1998:3-4) claims that Columbus described an African artifact in the journals of his 3rd voyage.(5)
quote:Columbus wanted to find out what the Indians of Española had told him, that there had come from the south and the southeast, Negro people, who brought those spear points made of a metal which they call guanin, of which he had sent samples to the king and queen for assay which [sic] was found to have 32 parts- 18 of gold, 6 of silver, and 8 of copper (Thacher 1903-1904: vol. 2, 380).(6)
Van Sertima continues,
quote: “The proportion of gold, silver, and copper alloys were found to be identical with spears being forged at that time in African Guinea. Apart from the eyewitness testimony of the Native Americans, here is incontestable metallurgical evidence from Europeans themselves (their meticulous assays establishing the identical proportions of metal alloys in the spears found in the Caribbean and the spears made in Guinea) (Van Sertima 1998: 3).”
Even though our primary focus is on the Olmec period, we need to briefly deal with Van Sertima’s claims that guanín is an artifact. Van Sertima presents the claim of identity between African and New World alloy spears as if it were a continuing paraphrase of the quote from Columbus. In fact, neither Thacher, Las Casas, Columbus nor anyone else says anything about African gold spears, their analysis, or their identity with the gold alloy from the New World.(7) Van Sertima asserts this identity with no evidence whatsoever. This complete lack of evidence disposes of his claim, but we will discuss the matter briefly. Copper/gold and copper/gold/silver alloys are not distinguished from each other and are referred to generically as tumbaga.(8) Guanín is a word in Arawak, the language of the inhabitants of Hispaniola, not Mandingo and was, therefore, not imported. Rivet and Arsandaux (1946: 60 ff.) show that in many Arawakan languages words like guanín or guani and words resembling karakoli, in Carib languages, designate tumbaga alloys. In his discussion of this issue, Van Sertima relies on the Afrocentric hyperdiffusionist Harold Lawrence, not on Columbus and the early chroniclers. Lawrence (1987) claims that "Mandinga traders” from West Africa made “several” voyages to the Americas after 1300 and established colonies in Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Venezuela, and the island of St. Vincent. In any case alloys in Africa were not the same as Columbus’ guanín. Lawrence, Van Sertima’s source, cites Bosman (1967) for the composition of gold alloy objects (though not spear heads). For comparison, Moche tumbagas are also provided (Lechtman 1988). The composition is given in percentages to facilitate comparison. gold copper silver Columbus-guanin56% 25% 19%
Guinea 50% 25% 25%
Guinea 65% 17.2% 17.2%
Mochica 31% 60% 10%
Moche 68% 13% 19%
Moche 67% 11% 22%
The proportions of this ternary alloy vary so widely that a particular composition is not an identifying marker.(9) Columbus found natives trading all kinds of objects (not just spear points) made from guanín in the whole region of Central America and Venezuela (Morison 1942: 265, 589). This was to be expected, because copper/gold and copper/silver/gold alloys were first made by the Moche culture of Peru about A.D. 100 (Lechtman, Erlij, and Barry 1982) and eventually diffused through the New World reaching Western Mexico about A.D. 1200 (Hosler 1994: 127). There is no need to posit diffusion of this alloy to the circum-Caribbean region from Africa because gold/copper/silver alloys were being made in neighboring South America 1400 years before Columbus’ journey.
Notes 5-9; (5) Morison (1963: 259) says that Bartolomé de Las Casas made an abstract of the journal of the Third Voyage. This manuscript was first printed in full by De Lolis in Raccolta I ii 1-25 and “so far as I can ascertain, the only English translation published is an unreliable one in Thacher... [This is the source used by Van Sertima].” An abstract of a scribe’s report of statements from Christopher Columbus is not quite the equivalent of a “controlled archaeological dig” in evaluating an artifact. (6) Thacher is not quoted correctly- it should read- “... he thought to investigate the report of the Indians of this Española who said that there had come to Española from the south and south-east, a black people, who have the tops of their spears made of a metal which they call ‘guanin’ of which he had sent samples to the Sovereigns to have them assayed, when it was found that of 32 parts, 18 were of gold, 6 of silver, and 8 of copper.” It is also problematic that Thacher was used (presumably because that is what Wiener used) when a better and more accessible translation (Morison 1963: 263) was available. (7) Why Africans would limit themselves to bring soft gold tipped spears to the New World is beyond us. Africans smelted iron and steel by 600 B.C. in Tanzania (Schmidt and Childs 1995; Schmidt 1996), and iron tools reached West Africa 2000 years ago, fueling the Bantu explosion that populated Central Africa (Diamond 1994). Columbus and his editor, Bartolomé de Las Casas, were convinced that Africans had not come to the Americas because the two continents were too distant from each other (Morison 1963: 271; Thacher 1903-04: vol. 2, 392-393). (8) Tumbaga is a Sanskrit loan word for copper which came to the New World via Tagalog (Philippines) and Spanish, and in turn, copper/gold alloys taken to the Far East by the Spanish were called tumbaga (Blust 1992). (9) Rivet and Arsandaux (1946: 48-59) found tumbaga objects with a gold content ranging from 11% to 81% and copper ranging from 18% to 87%>
bibliography
Blust, R. 1992. “Tumbaga in Southeast Asia and South America,” Anthropos 87: 443- 457. Bosman, W. 1967 [1705]. A New and Accurate Description of the Coast of Guinea. London: Frank Cass & Co. Diamond, J. 1994. “How Africa Became Black,” Discover (February): 72-81. Hosler, D. 1994. The Sounds and Colors of Power. The Sacred Metallurgical Technology of Ancient West Mexico. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. Lawrence, H. 1987. “Mandinga Voyages Across the Atlantic,” in African Presence in Early America. edited by I. Van Sertima. 55-81. New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Books. Lechtman, H. 1988. “Tradition and Styles in Central Andean Metalworking,” In The Beginning of the Use of Metals and Alloys, ed. R. Maddin. 344-378. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. Lechtman, H., A. Erlij, and E. J. Barry. 1982. “New Perspectives on Moche Metallurgy: Techniques of Gilding Copper at Loma Negra, Northern Peru.” Antiquity. 47: 3-30. Morison, S.E. 1942. Admiral of the Open Sea. A Life of Christopher Columbus. Boston: Little Brown. ---- trans. and ed. 1963. Journals and Other Documents on the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus New York:The Heritage Press. Rivet, P. and H. Arsandaux. 1946. La Métallurgie en Amérique Précolombienne. Paris: Institut d’Ethnologie, Musée de l’Homme. Schmidt, P. R., ed. 1996. The Culture and Technology of African Iron Production. Gainesville, FL: University Press of Florida. Schmidt, P. R. and S. T. Childs. 1995. “Ancient African Iron Production,” American Scientist 83: 524-533. Thacher, J.B. 1903-1904. Christopher Columbus. His Life, His Works, His Remains. NY: G.P. Putnam’s Sons. Van Sertima, I. 1998. Early America Revisited. New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers.
Posts: 833 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: I would love to see the URLs of these sessions. I looked and could not get the AAA 1999 Meeting Abstracts on line for example.
Here is the Program
Note that the program says "Reviewed by archaeology Division".
posted
Fijans aren't from East Africa. You black people have no business wanting Fijans to be from East Africa. Those people belong to Asian stock so get over it.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Fijans aren't from East Africa. You black people have no business wanting Fijans to be from East Africa. Those people belong to Asian stock so get over it.
And the difference is??
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: ^^And why are Fijians not from Africa?
Remind me again??
Lion!
Such a stupid fvcking question. Fijans aren't from Africa and never came from Africa you stupid afrocentrist. Why do you want them to be from Africa. Everyone that is from Africa is still found in Africa. Fijans language, culture, heritage, genetic markers, have nothing to do with Africa.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Fijans aren't from East Africa. You black people have no business wanting Fijans to be from East Africa. Those people belong to Asian stock so get over it.
And the difference is??
You aren't asking me the difference between Asian and African?
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: ^^And why are Fijians not from Africa?
Remind me again??
Lion!
Such a stupid fvcking question. Fijans aren't from Africa and never came from Africa you stupid afrocentrist. Why do you want them to be from Africa. Everyone that is from Africa is still found in Africa. Fijans language, culture, heritage, genetic markers, have nothing to do with Africa.
Such an ignoramus! Having eyes yet blind!
Poor thing!
Lion! Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: ^^And why are Fijians not from Africa?
Remind me again??
Lion!
Such a stupid fvcking question. Fijans aren't from Africa and never came from Africa you stupid afrocentrist. Why do you want them to be from Africa. Everyone that is from Africa is still found in Africa. Fijans language, culture, heritage, genetic markers, have nothing to do with Africa.
Such an ignoramus! Having eyes yet blind!
Poor thing!
Lion!
Get over it. Fijans aren't African if you are black from African descent you have no business wanting them to be African. You are a fvcking sad soul.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Bettyboo Quote: "Everyone that is from Africa is still found in Africa. Fijans language, culture, heritage, genetic markers, have nothing to do with Africa."
I am assuming that you are just having a bad day, and tomorrow you will remember that just as Whites in the Americas, are still White Central Asians, even though they got to the Americas by way of Europe. So too are Blacks who no longer live in Africa, still Black and African. Hope you feel better soon.
BTW - Do you know what a Fijian looks like?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: ^^And why are Fijians not from Africa?
Remind me again??
Lion!
Such a stupid fvcking question. Fijans aren't from Africa and never came from Africa you stupid afrocentrist. Why do you want them to be from Africa. Everyone that is from Africa is still found in Africa. Fijans language, culture, heritage, genetic markers, have nothing to do with Africa.
Such an ignoramus! Having eyes yet blind!
Poor thing!
Lion!
Get over it. Fijans aren't African if you are black from African descent you have no business wanting them to be African. You are a fvcking sad soul.
Your boyfriend must be out of town.. or you ran out of your medications? Which one?
Lion! Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Bettyboo Quote: "Everyone that is from Africa is still found in Africa. Fijans language, culture, heritage, genetic markers, have nothing to do with Africa."
I am assuming that you are just having a bad day, and tomorrow you will remember that just as Whites in the Americas, are still White Central Asians, even though they got to the Americas by way of Europe. So too are Blacks who no longer live in Africa, still Black and African. Hope you feel better soon.
BTW - Do you know what a Fijian looks like?
Get over it. Fijans aren't African and they look nothing like Africans. You have no business wanting to be African. Their culture and language and genetic markers are different and distanced from Africa. I guess we can say everyone in the whole world is African going by your logic. Just get over it...fijans aren't African people and if you are African descent you have no business wanting them to be African.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Bettyboo Quote: "Everyone that is from Africa is still found in Africa. Fijans language, culture, heritage, genetic markers, have nothing to do with Africa."
I am assuming that you are just having a bad day, and tomorrow you will remember that just as Whites in the Americas, are still White Central Asians, even though they got to the Americas by way of Europe. So too are Blacks who no longer live in Africa, still Black and African. Hope you feel better soon.
BTW - Do you know what a Fijian looks like?
Get over it. Fijans aren't African and they look nothing like Africans. You have no business wanting to be African. Their culture and language and genetic markers are different and distanced from Africa. I guess we can say everyone in the whole world is African going by your logic. Just get over it...fijans aren't African people and if you are African descent you have no business wanting them to be African.
Huh huh? Somebody still has a wicked hangover from a bad family-christmas get together...
Bettypoop, didja kill some family member over the hols??? Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
There is a large bodied population of African-appearance on Fiji who claim African descent. They make up the indigenous Fijians and look like the people where Julius Nyrere was from. This group is related to African or Negroid element on nearby Tonga and probably also to early Hawaiians, like Kamehameha.
One wonders if these people were not responsible for bringing the pyramids and pyramid technology to the South Pacific and Central America.
Fijian women
Samoan woman
Fijians built pyramid-like homes also "built on a pyramid base".
Early painting or rendition of Tonga "step pyramid"
Pyramid like structures are found in the South Pacific as well as the winged sun-disk symbolism.
-------------------- D. Reynolds-Marniche Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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