quote:If I were not convinced before, I am convinced now that Black folks have lost their minds! To think that Barack Obama is going to advocate issues that disproportionately impact the African-American community when he has turned his back on these issues throughout his campaign is laughable! Why should we elect a Black man who will not stand up for us, when he clearly told a Latino-American crowd in Texas -- as he was pandering for their votes -- that he was the candidate for Latino-Americans? Barack would never state the same for African-Americans, yet we, with low self-esteem, are so starved for representation, that we keep running after this man as if he is our savior. I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for? A symbol can't do nothing but represent different things to different people. I'll take courage, strength of character, strong leadership, good policies, proven track record, and a bias for action anyday over symbolism! All in all, if Black folks can't hold Barack's feet to the fire during the campaign, we can forget getting anything out of him during a Barack presidency. The man has turned his back on his own pastor of 20 years. . .what do you think who will do for you? Stay tuned for more of the same during a Barack presidency.
What a hypocrite, coward and a chickenshit!! he is, that Barak Obama !!! Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE!!! Ease up. If a half-white man is to be President this is the only position he can take.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
No black man could EVER become the President of the United States of Amerikkka UNLESS he turns his back on the black race. This demonstration with Obama and Rev. Wright is solely intended for Obama to demonstrate his submission to the white race, by publically denouncing the man he clearly knows well and is very close to. I'd say, like Rice and Thomas, he is performing with glowing whiteness. Some blacks are amoured with the idea of a black american president, and that alone. It's the PNS (Plantation Negro Syndrome).
Posted by Masonic Rebel (Member # 9549) on :
Still if Elected I believe Obama will be a Great American President, for one I like his Health Care Plan.
Rev. Wright is cool with me personally I like him a leader who follow the Black Liberation ideology.
true to the tradition
Posted by Obenga (Member # 1790) on :
One cannot be FOR black people and be president of the USA.......you can be FOR white people because they are the dominant culture.
Blacks in positions of power in the Govt do not have power to help blacks....they have power to do what the dominant society has empowered them to do.......which is to serve them.
You cant look to Govt to fix anything anyway....groups fix internal problems by themselves....as it should be....control should be internal if the group seeks to be successful.
Wright said Barack is a politician and must say certain things if he wishes to get elected.......Barack shares some of the same views as Wright does.....he simply cannot be as open about them and expect to win anything in politics.
Barack's usefulness is as a positive image to those young black males who can identify with him and use it to empower themselves to achieve.
If he was elected, which I believe he wont be, do we really expect significant positive change for Black America because the president is Black?
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by Obenga: Wright said Barack is a politician and must say certain things if he wishes to get elected.......Barack shares some of the same views as Wright does.....he simply cannot be as open about them and expect to win anything in politics.
Barack's usefulness is as a positive image to those young black males who can identify with him and use it to empower themselves to achieve.
On point brother! Real talk!!
Posted by davieschristopher (Member # 15225) on :
I, for one, would be very happy to see Barack become president. He has a phenomenal views on MANY subjects. I AM NOT RACIST. I do believe, because America is so dimwitted and racist and shallow, he would have alot of beef with USA. He will be assassinated as soon as he will be elected. Once again, I'M NOT RACIST! The KKK and Mafia and other ****-head groups won't let it happen. It makes me sick to admit it, but it is true. This is America, and if you want someone dead, it will happen. I do believe he would be a great president though.
Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
quote:One cannot be FOR black people and be president of the USA.......you can be FOR white people because they are the dominant culture.
Blacks in positions of power in the Govt do not have power to help blacks....they have power to do what the dominant society has empowered them to do.......which is to serve them.
You cant look to Govt to fix anything anyway....groups fix internal problems by themselves....as it should be....control should be internal if the group seeks to be successful.
Wright said Barack is a politician and must say certain things if he wishes to get elected.......Barack shares some of the same views as Wright does.....he simply cannot be as open about them and expect to win anything in politics.
Barack's usefulness is as a positive image to those young black males who can identify with him and use it to empower themselves to achieve.
If he was elected, which I believe he wont be, do we really expect significant positive change for Black America because the president is Black?
^ Exactly. Some of the posters here are simply not *getting it*.
They don't understand politics. Politics is the art of public perception.
Obama understands this. So otherwise not denouncing Rev. Wright, at least publicly(even though he may be right on most issues) is basically taking a political "nosedive".
The fact is, white America is by and large still very racist even though it doesn't like to admit it. Which is why they *reacted* the way they did to the so-called Wright controversy.
But what Rev. Wright is saying has been said and *is* being said in black churches all around the country. It is nothing new at all. White America is quite ignorant of this fact. They are "surprised" and appalled at the conditions, they historically, have created.
Posted by davieschristopher (Member # 15225) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mmmkay:
quote:One cannot be FOR black people and be president of the USA.......you can be FOR white people because they are the dominant culture.
Blacks in positions of power in the Govt do not have power to help blacks....they have power to do what the dominant society has empowered them to do.......which is to serve them.
You cant look to Govt to fix anything anyway....groups fix internal problems by themselves....as it should be....control should be internal if the group seeks to be successful.
Wright said Barack is a politician and must say certain things if he wishes to get elected.......Barack shares some of the same views as Wright does.....he simply cannot be as open about them and expect to win anything in politics.
Barack's usefulness is as a positive image to those young black males who can identify with him and use it to empower themselves to achieve.
If he was elected, which I believe he wont be, do we really expect significant positive change for Black America because the president is Black?
^ Exactly. Some of the posters here are simply not *getting it*.
They don't understand politics. Politics is the art of public perception.
Obama understands this. Otherwise not denouncing Rev. Wright (even though he may be right on most issues) is taking a political "nosedive".
The fact is, white America is by and large still very racist even though it does'nt like to admit it. Which is why they *reacted* the way they did to the so-called Wright contrevesy.
But what rev. wright is saying has been said and *is* being said in black churches all around the country. It is nothing new at all. White america is ignorant of this fact. They are "surprised" and appalled at the conditions, they historically, have created. Amazing.
So true! I am an American and not proud of it (to a point!). We think that we can just go and get into other peoples **** like we own it! I hate this part of America. When we admit that we are ignorant, than we can have a black president. Until than(which will be a never thing) we continue on with people like Bush! Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote: I'll take courage, strength of character, strong leadership, good policies, proven track record, and a bias for action anyday over symbolism! ...All in all, if Black folks can't hold Barack's feet to the fire during the campaign, we can forget getting anything out of him during a Barack presidency. The man has turned his back on his own pastor of 20 years
quote:Arwa wrote: What a hypocrite, coward and a chickenshit!! he is, that Barak Obama !!!
Unlike you Arwa (the real chickenshit (or more like chikenhead) Barack and his campaign leaaders don't follow mere emotions in their road to the white house, but i'm sure they put alot of emphasize on statistics, public opinion and other relevant material for aid. And we all know that "blacks" make only some ten or fifteen percent of the total U.S population. Do you think it would be wise for him to only speak about "black this" or "black that" and then have the slightest of chance to conquer the white house? Maybe you want him join the line and become the next Jessie jackson or Al sharpton? Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Yonis2 err umm Bananas and Onions wrote:
quote: And we all know that "blacks" make only some ten or fifteen percent of the total U.S population.
Bananas and Onions, AAs are the only reason he's where he's at. In primaries he loses all of the other demographics except AAs who in many cases makes up half of the democratic primaries. His range with whites in primaries is in the 20% to low 40% range.
Caucases are buy a bus and pay people to vote. So him receiving 2,000 to 8,000 votes in dumpwater states like Idaho where most of his delegates are coming from are meaningless.
He's winning states that vote republican anyway.
But why am I trying to explain something so complex as democracy to a SoSmalie?
HAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHA!!!!
Democracy is like Raid to you guys. It sends you running like _ _ _ _ _ _ _
HAHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Posted by davieschristopher (Member # 15225) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Yonis2 err umm Bananas and Onions wrote:
quote: And we all know that "blacks" make only some ten or fifteen percent of the total U.S population.
Bananas and Onions, AAs are the only reason he's where he's at. In primaries he loses all of the other demographics except AAs who in many cases makes up half of the democratic primaries. His range with whites in primaries is in the 20% to low 40% range. Only reason Republicans are is that they don't lose their jobs when Bush is gone though.
Caucases are buy a bus and pay people to vote. So him receiving 2,000 to 8,000 votes in dumpwater states like Idaho where most of his delegates are coming from are meaningless.
He's winning states that vote republican anyway.
Posted by davieschristopher (Member # 15225) on :
^^^^Wrong Place^^^^ Only reason Republicans are is that they don't lose their jobs when Bush is gone though.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
davieschristopher wrote:
---------------------- ----------------------
Look Frosty, don't post while you're high on meth.
Posted by davieschristopher (Member # 15225) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: davieschristopher wrote:
---------------------- ----------------------
Look Frosty, don't post while your high meth.
So sorry, let me get sober...LOL...I just misplaced the text. Can't people fukk up once in awhile? LOL
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Democracy is like Raid to you guys. It sends you running like _ _ _ _ _ _ _
HAHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
You mean like how the republicans leave you stranded and helplesss when a hurricane hits you.
HAHHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Posted by Charlie Bass (Member # 10328) on :
For once the Bass agrees with all in this thread, the Bass has compületely lost all respect for Barack Obama. Its true, America will never let a black man be president, thats just the reality Uncle Obama has to face. If he lets the crackers manipulate him into denoucing his pastor, whats next? Denouncing every black person that the crackers don't like for the sake of pleasing racist crackers who act and appear to be colorblind and non-racist?
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Obenga:
One cannot be FOR black people and be president of the USA.......you can be FOR white people because they are the dominant culture.
Interesting observation.
quote:Wright said Barack is a politician and must say certain things if he wishes to get elected.......Barack shares some of the same views as Wright does.....he simply cannot be as open about them and expect to win anything in politics.
He was stating the obvious, but it's for ALL POLITICIANS IN GENERAL!
Truth is, it's truth, but he didn't need to say it.
I'd be upset if I was Obama too.
I've thought about this scenario myself - me, in a position of power, and black critics.
No, he didn't need to denounce Right, but I understand him.
Because on the other hand he could not defend him (especially and at all the first time) without being accused of 'apologizing for him'.
We pretty much share all the same views and so I KNOW Obama should not be preceived as 'wanting to do anything harmful to whites' which the media is trying to portray.
I think he just wants to (and justly) improve our lot. However things may not be as they seem here - everyone and they momma knew that in order for him to have any chance he needed the black vote. And it's usually likely to sway one way or the other.
For the black people saying he's all politics:
He is right and being frank when he says that neither the pastor nor his tirade represent black America nor what black America is about.
I've actually been a part of a more progressive (with respect to blacks) church, and it was a black run church with a number of white members, but the best thing was I didn't sense any uppity-ness or snooty-ness in that house of God.
For the white conservative Obama haters:
The founding fathers were attached to an increasingly racist culture, and had racists peers among them, but they still had good ideas (America and its government).
Don't harp on nor defend ( ) an out of context comment and analogy and especially don't call the "Rome" part racist when white Americans weren't even being attacked, America's system was.
Hell , maybe he shouldn't of been speaking politics during his sermon but sometimes you speak other things during sermons AND I know plenty of white boys who've expressed the same opinion (America's government is corrupt).
If you don't want to vote for him, don't. But don't trip over such a pitiful stumbling block. Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
As I said. ANY half-white person that wants to be President HAS to take the same position as Obama. It is fact because non-white people are a minority. He has to appeal to the white majority. Most non-white issues are not white issues.
And the title of the thread is disrespectful!! This should be moved to another thread. Although the discussion is OK.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
You know the boy has openly courted Latinos, Hispanics or whatever you call them. He has openly courted Jews also.
But you low self-esteem saps are okay with him blatently avoiding African American issues because you and he thinks it will make him too "black" whatever that means.
You believe this country is racist, therefore this half-breed Kenyan has to have 87% to 95% AA support while openly pushing them aside so that he can get elected by white people who hate AAs.
You people are so beatdown and such an inferiority complex, that the above actually makes sense to you.
By some strange coincidence he does get elected to president, if he wants a second term or for his vice president to get elected he's going to have to continue pushing you aside and basically say, **** you.
And you dumb fucks are okay with it.
What has he stated that he was going to do for AAs specifically?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
You don't get it do you? Look at the church he attended for 20yrs. Look at his wife. Look at who he associated with for throughout his adult life. . . when he came of age. What makes you think he doesn't care about black people. Point is he cares about white people all the same. WHY?????
I am sure he loves his mom and the grandparents who nurtured him. Don't ask/force him to take sides.
He is in a unique position to bring this country "together" not racially but politically. After 8-yrs of fear, hate, war, divisiveness. And also rational enough to reach out ot the rest of the world.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: As I said. ANY half-white person that wants to be President HAS to take the same position as Obama. It is fact because non-white people are a minority. He has to appeal to the white majority. Most non-white issues are not white issues.
And the title of the thread is disrespectful!! This should be moved to another thread. Although the discussion is OK.
True. Half breeds enjoy a status a level above blacks in America. One could become President IF they embraced their white side and neglected, or even better yet, humiliated their black side.
To those who attempt to pass off America's policies on, The System, realize it was not the system that agreed 80% to go to war with Iraq. This was directly opposite to US black opinion, who responded 80%+ against the war. Strange because that's about the same white/black split on O.J.'s innocence.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: You know the boy has openly courted Latinos, Hispanics or whatever you call them. He has openly courted Jews also.
But you low self-esteem saps are okay with him blatently avoiding African American issues because you and he thinks it will make him too "black" whatever that means.
You believe this country is racist, therefore this half-breed Kenyan has to have 87% to 95% AA support while openly pushing them aside so that he can get elected by white people who hate AAs.
You people are so beatdown and such an inferiority complex, that the above actually makes sense to you.
By some strange coincidence he does get elected to president, if he wants a second term or for his vice president to get elected he's going to have to continue pushing you aside and basically say, **** you.
And you dumb fucks are okay with it.
What has he stated that he was going to do for AAs specifically?
I totally agree, and have said this since day one. Obama has made some seriously LARGE campaign promises to Jews and whites. At AIPAC, he promised Jews that if elected, he'd continue to fund them the 100s of billions in Aid. He also implied that he would run and beat up on Iran on their behalf, as well as continue support for using US tax dollars to assist Russian Jews in education, migration and employment.
He has made "gestures" to hispanics and merely implies the premise of "hope" to blacks. What has he promised blacks? Not one thing.
From where I'm sitting, I'd take a commitment of 100s of billion dollars/Year in funding/Aid, over a whisper of implied hope any day of the week.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I thought the current USA president Baby Bush was the first Chimpanzee to be president thus proving any anthro has a shot at the White House!
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: From a commentator: Dominique , April 30, 2008
quote: If I were not convinced before, I am convinced now that Black folks have lost their minds!
[And as proof that the commentator's mind is already lost.]
I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for? A symbol can't do nothing but represent different things to different people.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
alTakruri wrote:
quote: I thought the current USA president Baby Bush was the first Chimpanzee to be president thus proving any anthro has a shot at the White House!
[And as proof that the commentator's mind is already lost.]
Well maybe he did not vote for Bush last time and is stating his position for the present day. Try to intelligently comprehend for once, if its possible.
Posted by Obenga (Member # 1790) on :
We cant look for change or help from a politician of any colour.
We must understand that White supremacy has that covered.......If Obama gets up there with his dark skin and starts talking about the problems facing black america and what he is going to do about it his candidacy is OVER.
White supreamcy will recognize the threat and deal with it post haste. He only got this far by playing the game and showing White society what it wants to see from a black candidate........a black male who will serve their needs and as a tasty side order remove white guilt at the same time because they have proved they are not racist by voting for a black man.
Has no one noticed in cyberspace how often posts appear claiming racism is dead because a black man can get this far so it proves something?
Change will come from the ground up, pycho-cultural change is whats needed for the group to make progress and embrace it's potential.
Black leaders who help lead us to a positive future will not be elected officials because they cannot speak openly to us about the truth of our reality.....white supremacy will not allow that.....look at the reaction to the open talk from Rev Wright.
The effort from white society to demonize this man when he is speaking truth is the white supremacist reaction to a threat.......a black man with the ear of the entire culture speaking truth is a threat....a threat they are moving quickly to deal with in short order.
Mainstream media is dealing with what he cant prove, the Aids issue and a short out of context clever soudbite about damming America.......he has said so much more than that that no one in the mainstream is actually trying to debunk, because they cant.....they are demonizing him to make sure we do not accept his message.
Change has to come with cultural change at the ground level......Education and Black images that are so influential need to be instructional in placing Black at the center of our cultural reality and not the white supremacist version of our perception of self and group that is causing us to operate the way dominant white society wants us to behave so as to remain anything but a threat to their hegemony.
On the contrary we support their perception of themselves as superior by behaving the way they are programming not just us to behave but the whole non-white world.
We sit here calling Obama a Tom......sorry but the self hating blacks that are playing on our TV and walking around our areas reinforcing self hate are the Toms.....we got self hating black hip hop artists and black movie stars programming us everyday on being anti-education and pro-criminal, anti- black and pro-white ....they are doing this unawares and we are following unawares and it's killin us.
Not all black hip hop artist and not all black movie stars.....but far too many of 'em enough to give more power to a negative slave/colonial mentality that already had too much power over our psychosocial development before they got up their in front us.
Recognize what white supremacy is and all you can take from black elected officals is that they are a more a postive image of what our young people need to see than a black self hating hip-hop artist promoting our dislike of our african features and sending a message of high education being something not for black males.
If we are looking to black elected officials to get us out of this we are toast.......WE have to look to ourselves period.
Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
^ This guy is hilarious.
Posted by davieschristopher (Member # 15225) on :
It is true.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I thought the current USA president Baby Bush was the first Chimpanzee to be president thus proving any anthro has a shot at the White House!
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: From a commentator: Dominique , April 30, 2008
quote: If I were not convinced before, I am convinced now that Black folks have lost their minds!
[And as proof that the commentator's mind is already lost.]
I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for? A symbol can't do nothing but represent different things to different people.
Just shows how slow you are. You musta forgot about Nixopn, Reagan, and Bush, Sr. You are as much a fool as I suspected.
Posted by Ausarian (Member # 13266) on :
Rev. Wright did the 'unspeakable' on the following fronts:
1)Speak of America's track record for state-sanctioned "terorrism" both domestically and internationally. E.g. - From historic domestic or state-sanctioned acts of terror against Native Americans, Blacks, Hispanic, Italians and other groups perceived to be 'non-White' or 'true-Whites', unions, and dissidents of imperialistic local and foreign policies to unleashing weapons of mass destruction on the people of Japan, Germany, Korea, Vietnam, etc and presiding over colonial-style occupations as those in Iraq and Afghanistan.
def: Terrorism - The systematic use of terror, esp. as a means of coercion - courtesy of Merriam Webster Dic.
There is also a saying, that terrorism usually starts at home.
2)Speak of social divisions along class and the need for social justice. E.g. - historic social divisions which have seen the living standards of the most oppressed segments of the society fare comparatively less than those of the other segments; for instance, the relatively more overt systematic racism of the past has ensured socio-economic disparaties between 'Whites' and 'Blacks'/'non-Whites' along ethnic lines to this day, while the income gap between the rich and poor gets ever wider - that is to say, the thin social layer of the rich [transcending ethnicity] get richer and larger social layer of the poor [transcending ethnicity] get poorer.
Truth be told, the big business corp mass media and the ruling elite [transcending ethnicity] would "assasinate" [whether physically or character-wise] anyone who is perceived to be guilty of the above mentioned, regardless of their skin color. Rev Wright just so happens to be the main one of the moment, because of his apparent ties to a presidential candidate.
And yes, Rev Wright is right about Obama being just another politician, whom he intends to put to task if elected - as he said, because then the Obama presidency would quite likely be part or a continuity of the very system that he is criticizing...and Obama's recent denounciation of Rev Wright is a clear indicator of this. He is pandering to his ruling 'elite' social base, to assure them that the speak of 'change' is nothing more than empty campaign 'populist' rhetoric to get him elected, but that he is no radical for real social change. It is also a tacit reassurance to the said social base, of his abilility to make "tough decisions" and hence, the "ruthlessness" deemed necessary to be the Comander-in-chief of the United States.
In short - Obama is really the status quo - NOT change - whose appeal is to put a "new face" [whether it is being a relatively unknown newcomer to the scene, or for his "exotic" characterizations] on the "image-tattered" U.S. imperialism both domestically and abroad.
The sad part of all this in Obama's efforts, is that there real concern in some quarters of the Democractic party that he could well turn out to be just another "Ducacus" - hence, Clinton's argument about Obama's "electability" and insistence on staying in the race.
Posted by samegy (Member # 15090) on :
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: From a commentator: Dominique , April 30, 2008
quote:If I were not convinced before, I am convinced now that Black folks have lost their minds! To think that Barack Obama is going to advocate issues that disproportionately impact the African-American community when he has turned his back on these issues throughout his campaign is laughable! Why should we elect a Black man who will not stand up for us, when he clearly told a Latino-American crowd in Texas -- as he was pandering for their votes -- that he was the candidate for Latino-Americans? Barack would never state the same for African-Americans, yet we, with low self-esteem, are so starved for representation, that we keep running after this man as if he is our savior. I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for? A symbol can't do nothing but represent different things to different people. I'll take courage, strength of character, strong leadership, good policies, proven track record, and a bias for action anyday over symbolism! All in all, if Black folks can't hold Barack's feet to the fire during the campaign, we can forget getting anything out of him during a Barack presidency. The man has turned his back on his own pastor of 20 years. . .what do you think who will do for you? Stay tuned for more of the same during a Barack presidency.
What a hypocrite, coward and a chickenshit!! he is, that Barak Obama !!!
How does this make him a hypocrite and/or a self-hating black person? The man is bi-racial anyway. He is what he is and that's it. Why is there this constant attempt of putting people in a box? You want him to split himself in half? I don't understand this. This kind of ignorant mentality keeps division amongst races. Many black Africans and black people from the Carribean don't have this sort of inferiority & victim mentality like how African-Americans do. They are very confident in who they are and don't focus on this kind of stupidity.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
The Carribean is like a beach front plantation for white folk. They go there and have blacks cater to their every need including wiping their asses if they desired. They had the same planned for Cuba, but at least Cuba fought back. That's not a victim mentality in the carribean. That's the step beyond, at acceptance. The very last phase of Stockholm syndrome.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The Carribean is like a beach front plantation for white folk. They go there and have blacks cater to their every need including wiping their asses if they desired. That's not a victim mentality. That's the step beyond at acceptance. The very last phase of Stockholm syndrome.
That is not true. You are fabricating things. Now you sound stupid and uneducated. You have never travelled, have you? I can tell.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
I've traveled much more and seen many things then you. Last time in the carribean I saw many old white women there paying brothers for sex on the beach. They looked like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Obenga: Change will come from the ground up, pycho-cultural change is whats needed for the group to make progress and embrace it's potential.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ausarian: Rev. Wright did the 'unspeakable' on the following fronts:
1)Speak of America's track record for state-sanctioned "terorrism" both domestically and internationally. E.g. - From historic domestic or state-sanctioned acts of terror against Native Americans, Blacks, Hispanic, Italians and other groups perceived to be 'non-White' or 'true-Whites', unions, and dissidents of imperialistic local and foreign policies to unleashing weapons of mass destruction on the people of Japan, Germany, Korea, Vietnam, etc and presiding over colonial-style occupations as those in Iraq and Afghanistan.
def: Terrorism - The systematic use of terror, esp. as a means of coercion - courtesy of Merriam Webster Dic.
There is also a saying, that terrorism usually starts at home.
2)Speak of social divisions along class and the need for social justice. E.g. - historic social divisions which have seen the living standards of the most oppressed segments of the society fare comparatively less than those of the other segments; for instance, the relatively more overt systematic racism of the past has ensured socio-economic disparaties between 'Whites' and 'Blacks'/'non-Whites' along ethnic lines to this day, while the income gap between the rich and poor gets ever wider - that is to say, the thin social layer of the rich [transcending ethnicity] get richer and larger social layer of the poor [transcending ethnicity] get poorer.
Truth be told, the big business corp mass media and the ruling elite [transcending ethnicity] would "assasinate" [whether physically or character-wise] anyone who is perceived to be guilty of the above mentioned, regardless of their skin color. Rev Wright just so happens to be the main one of the moment, because of his apparent ties to a presidential candidate.
co-sign.
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: alTakruri wrote:
quote: I thought the current USA president Baby Bush was the first Chimpanzee to be president thus proving any anthro has a shot at the White House!
[And as proof that the commentator's mind is already lost.]
Well maybe he did not vote for Bush last time and is stating his position for the present day. Try to intelligently comprehend for once, if its possible.
I know he's not going to respond to your post, he probably didn't even notice it but...
I AM offended by you insulting the most informed denizen of this forum. Your father (if you have one) is not a 5th of the man he is. He is a God as far as YOU are concerned. Didn't your parents teach you any manners?
I HOPE YOU'RE SORRY FOR WHAT YOU'VE SAID. YOU SHOULD APOLOGISE. Posted by Snidely Whiplash (Member # 15126) on :
it isn't about submitting to whitey its about submitting to patriotism
he has to prove he is patriotic and his color only makes him have to prove that more - also because of his muslim family background
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mmmkay: ^ This guy is hilarious.
And you're just too stupid. You should keep quiet.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Wow!! I always thought everyone is going gaga over Obama but after reading this thread I changed my mind!
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by samegy: [QUOTE] Many black Africans and black people from the Carribean don't have this sort of inferiority & victim mentality like how African-Americans do. They are very confident in who they are and don't focus on this kind of stupidity.
I'm calling divisive bullshit on this one. All Africans: Continential, Carribean or American, have pretty much the same problems.
As a "Continental African", I'm very proud of the progresses being made by the "African American" branch of the family.
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by samegy:
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The Carribean is like a beach front plantation for white folk. They go there and have blacks cater to their every need including wiping their asses if they desired. That's not a victim mentality. That's the step beyond at acceptance. The very last phase of Stockholm syndrome.
That is not true. You are fabricating things. Now you sound stupid and uneducated. You have never travelled, have you? I can tell.
It's the sam same egyguy. He's back on his bullshit game.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!. . .
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I've traveled much more and seen many things then you. Last time in the carribean I saw many old white women there paying brothers for sex on the beach. They looked like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
When put into context, Obama's screams of American identity and patriotism sound hollow. This is because for the last 300 years, blacks have been beat down, shot at, burnt, raped and disfigured for the right to be an American or Patriots. Yet today, blacks are still outside of the mainstream of American political, economic and social life. Therefore, his antics are mere window dressing and a charade of fake patriotism. It masks the fact that blacks since Crispus Attucks have DIED in the cause of being fully called American, but they are STILL not fully part of the mainstream of American corporate, political, economic and social life. In fact many of the black "patriots" from world war II are only JUST NOW getting their just rewards. Therefore, being willing to DIE for America and suffer the ABUSE of not being WHITE does not make one a patriot. In fact, at some point, blacks have to STOP being willing to take ABUSE, as Obama's antics are a form of self ABUSE, from a system that REALLY DOESN'T WANT THEM. That isn't patriotic, it is FOOLISH and Obama's actions are evidence of this.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
Hm little note on the side: Sheila E turned already 50! Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily:
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
Hm little note on the side: Sheila E turned already 50!
Between Sheila and Marie Shriver/Brittany Spears, I'd pick Sheila.
Posted by Grumman f6f (Member # 14051) on :
F aallll the candidates that have run for president since the country was founded including up to the present. Now what, all you Einsteins? Who's right in their positions now?
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box):
quote:Originally posted by Obenga: Change will come from the ground up, pycho-cultural change is whats needed for the group to make progress and embrace it's potential.
double co-sign.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
I'm right of course. My position on the election, Obama, Rudy G, Hillary, McCain and Ron Paul has never wavered from day 1. What you see here are many people playing catch up (yet, still missing huge chunks of interconnected data) on analysis I've presented from the very beginning.
In fact, I know how the finals will proceed and what lays instore for the next 4-8 years. Trends are very easy to see and very predictable.
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
^let us in on that information brother please.
Cheers.
Posted by yazid904 (Member # 7708) on :
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I've traveled much more and seen many things then you. Last time in the carribean I saw many old white women there paying brothers for sex on the beach. They looked like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
It will depend on which part of the Caribbean you are talking about because there are far too many diverse islands being talked about as if they were all the same. They are all islands! Haiti, Puerto Rico and USVI cannot be spoken of in the same breath as if they were similar.
I do know there are some European women who go to some islands for sexual fun and enjoyment but that is different from the economic benefit derived from the tourism industry that is the money maker for many islands.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Aw poor baby. Did I bruise your feelings? Good! Now go buy yourself a sense of humour and be reassured that if a chimp can make president an chump like you can be a 5 star general under such a chimps command.
Anyway, Reagan co-starred with a chimp but looks more like a rat, Nixon resembled and elephant more than any other beast, while Baby Bush is the spitting image of a chimpanzee if not of as high an IQ level.
You however do not approxiamate the features of a wildebeest as your closet associates all say about you. No, not at all. And they are very unkind to say so. No, not unkind to you but unkind to the wildebeest.
Truth to tell you mirror no animals image. But they were close in chosing the wildbeest because the one thing in nature closest to you is a wild ox fart.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I thought the current USA president Baby Bush was the first Chimpanzee to be president thus proving any anthro has a shot at the White House!
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: From a commentator: Dominique , April 30, 2008
quote: If I were not convinced before, I am convinced now that Black folks have lost their minds!
[And as proof that the commentator's mind is already lost.]
I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for? A symbol can't do nothing but represent different things to different people.
Just shows how slow you are. You musta forgot about Nixopn, Reagan, and Bush, Sr. You are as much a fool as I suspected.
Posted by yazid904 (Member # 7708) on :
There is a logical syllogistic deception in the argument and sadly truth in that pronouncement of
quote:when he clearly told a Latino-American crowd in Texas -- as he was pandering for their votes -- that he was the candidate for Latino-Americans? Barack would never state the same for African-Americans, yet we, with low self-esteem, are so starved for representation, that we keep running after this man as if he is our savior. I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for?
and still the chimpanzee would never win because it is "black"!
Black Americans are the conscience and soul of USA but many are too addicted to the Democratic party!
Here is the scientific argument: Have all 3 candidates say to each community, Hispanic/Latino, women, gays, guns and bitter people, African Americans, etc that they will be helped by x candidate. If a 'black' candidate every says that to an AA audience, he will automatically LOSE because of the bias against said community!!!! Calling it as I see it!
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Chimps have pink skin and a chimp already won and is in the White House right now.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Is this why so many blacks from the Caribbean excell in Black America? When playing cards a certian hand is called West Indian landlord and his Black American renters.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The Carribean is like a beach front plantation for white folk. They go there and have blacks cater to their every need including wiping their asses if they desired. They had the same planned for Cuba, but at least Cuba fought back. That's not a victim mentality in the carribean. That's the step beyond, at acceptance. The very last phase of Stockholm syndrome.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Aw poor baby. Did I bruise your feelings? Good! Now go buy yourself a sense of humour and be reassured that if a chimp can make president an chump like you can be a 5 star general under such a chimps command.
Anyway, Reagan co-starred with a chimp but looks more like a rat, Nixon resembled and elephant more than any other beast, while Baby Bush is the spitting image of a chimpanzee if not of as high an IQ level.
You however do not approxiamate the features of a wildebeest as your closet associates all say about you. No, not at all. And they are very unkind to say so. No, not unkind to you but unkind to the wildebeest.
Truth to tell you mirror no animals image. But they were close in chosing the wildbeest because the one thing in nature closest to you is a wild ox fart.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I thought the current USA president Baby Bush was the first Chimpanzee to be president thus proving any anthro has a shot at the White House!
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: From a commentator: Dominique , April 30, 2008
quote: If I were not convinced before, I am convinced now that Black folks have lost their minds!
[And as proof that the commentator's mind is already lost.]
I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for? A symbol can't do nothing but represent different things to different people.
Just shows how slow you are. You musta forgot about Nixopn, Reagan, and Bush, Sr. You are as much a fool as I suspected.
No, you couldn't touch my feelings. They are much to high a height for you to transend.
I believe it is you who have the hurt feeling with your weak assessment of Bush and his agenda. chimpanzee? Chump? Surely an educated fellow such as yourself can generate something more potent then this.
I'm dissappointed, but not at all surprised.
You are no more then one of millions of unconscious collaborators operating in the dark. No wonder you repeatedly stump your toe. Open a curtain, turn on a light, light a candle and let the light illuminate your path. Then you might realize that Bush, Jr. was planned well in the time of Reagan and perhaps before. Open your mind and let some air in. It's seems to be pretty stagnant up in there. Chimps. LOL!
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Is this why so many blacks from the Caribbean excell in Black America?
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The Carribean is like a beach front plantation for white folk. They go there and have blacks cater to their every need including wiping their asses if they desired. They had the same planned for Cuba, but at least Cuba fought back. That's not a victim mentality in the carribean. That's the step beyond, at acceptance. The very last phase of Stockholm syndrome.
Yo fool. The operative phrase is, "IN black America "
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Empty rhetoric. Get up offa that thing and go assist community endeavors for betterment.
And don't forget to get that sense of humour!
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
OH!! Oops, sorry, will try harder to do better next time. OK boss?
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: alTakruri wrote:
quote: I thought the current USA president Baby Bush was the first Chimpanzee to be president thus proving any anthro has a shot at the White House!
[And as proof that the commentator's mind is already lost.]
Well maybe he did not vote for Bush last time and is stating his position for the present day. Try to intelligently comprehend for once, if its possible.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
Yes, and all this speech about Chimps is enlightening, how? Or, was that supposed to pass for some form of joke? If so, you have a Bob Hope/Ben Stein like sense of humor.
LOL, I'm laughing at that.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Wright's pettiness for 15 minutes of fame hurt Obama's candidacy. Despite any good Wright has done for upwardly mobile blacks in Chitown, reissuance posturing will never make him a Malcolm X.
Better had he stifled up and allowed the mulatto his shot at the presidency. Crabs in a barrel tendacies plague the USA blacks.
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Wow!! I always thought everyone is going gaga over Obama but after reading this thread I changed my mind!
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Damn Gigalos making off with the Clampet clan oil money. Geez, it's a business not a relationship, and those brothers also get the finest babes the great white race has to offer (can't see what's going on behind the rented doors of the wealthy and their sex parties where even husbands rent the gigalos (sometimes 2 at a time to **** their wives while they take a seat light a cigar and watch).
It's just a business. Business is business.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!. . .
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I've traveled much more and seen many things then you. Last time in the carribean I saw many old white women there paying brothers for sex on the beach. They looked like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Damn Gigalos making off with the Clampet clan oil money. Geez, it's a business not a relationship, and those brothers also get the finest babes "the great white race" has to offer (can't see what's going on behind the rented doors of the wealthy and their sex parties where even husbands rent the gigalos (sometimes 2 at a time to **** their wives while they take a seat light a cigar sip good island rum and watch).
It's just a business. Business is business.
But really do we need to pit one set of blacks against the other Mr Black Radical Rhetoric Spouter (aka meninarmer)? Haven't learned beyond divide and conquer yet but you want to judge the consciousness of your betters. Tsk, tsk.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!. . .
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I've traveled much more and seen many things then you. Last time in the carribean I saw many old white women there paying brothers for sex on the beach. They looked like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
The funniest thing about the whole thing:
1) Most AAs don't know Obama's stand on issues. 2) Most know more about what Wright said or what Wright should or shouldn't do than anything else about Obama's campaign.
What is Obama's policy platform and how does it represent such RADICAL change from what we currently have?
If the ONLY concern people have about Obama's campaign or Obama as a candidate is what Rev. Wright said or did not say, then America deserves what is about to happen to them in the next 8 years.
WHY should blacks blindly vote for this man just because he is black? What is in it for them? Politics is all about what's in one's own best interest. How will Obama as president improve the plight of blacks in America? Will it bring about better schools? Safer streets? More health care? Better infrastructure? Rebuild the Ninth Ward? So what is in it for blacks to go all out and fight tooth and nail for this man as the first black president? Or is this all about symbolism and blacks just being happy with a black man as president. Heck, if that is all that this is about, then there was ALREADY a black president in Bill "Bubba" Clinton. And what did HE do for black folks? Blacks have had mayors of almost every big city in America over the last 30 years and what has THAT done for them? Wilson Goode dropped bombs on West Philadelphia. Marion Barry was caught with crack and relected multiple times. Ray Nagin sat back and watched his OWN PEOPLE drown and still hasn't done anything to bring back the Ninth ward. So if ANYTHING blacks should have learned that JUST being BLACK does not mean a politician will FURTHER the interests of black folks. The fact that all this support for Obama is boiling down to simplistic support of "symbolism" only means that blacks in America will CONTINUE to be under served by the system they live in politically. It also means that the Condoleeza Rices's and Colin Powells as glorified affirmative action babies, symbolic figureheads of black progress who HAVE DONE NOTHING to help black folks in America and that black faces are no longer alone as trophy toys in the window of the American store front that don't represent REAL CHANGE over and above symbolic value in their black skin.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Yes, but the American public loves a spectacle and though Obama not Wright is the candidate surrogacy will win the easily persuaded sensationalist reactionary.
But as trite as it sounds, if you better the boat you better the passengers, even those in the brig.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
alTakruri wrote:
quote: Is this why so many blacks from the Caribbean excell in Black America? When playing cards a certian hand is called West Indian landlord and his Black American renters.
No matter how much your fake yamaka wearing ass wants to fantasize, their miniscule wealth doesn't compare to AAs. Your wanna be jew, jew ass should stick to whining, bitching, and moaning about them berber bitches not wanting your dirty ass.
Either that or stick to chasing around after those flat assed, flat chested "HOT Indonesian chicks". <LOL, LOL, LOL>
And here's some advice for you fake kike sahel mushmouth ghetto ass...
You're supposed to put your draws on after you wash your boodie, not before. Now go take your dirty ass a bath and try to get it right this time.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
So? Anyway, she might've had one of them brothers. Notice how gleefully she marvels over "the black one" in her song Toybox. Besides that, (and I know you didn't say it) how does one make a white woman out of Sheila Escoveda? She's the most AA redbone looking Mexican chick I ever saw.
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily:
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
Hm little note on the side: Sheila E turned already 50!
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The funniest thing about the whole thing:
1) Most AAs don't know Obama's stand on issues. 2) Most know more about what Wright said or what Wright should or shouldn't do than anything else about Obama's campaign.
What is Obama's policy platform and how does it represent such RADICAL change from what we currently have?
If the ONLY concern people have about Obama's campaign or Obama as a candidate is what Rev. Wright said or did not say, then America deserves what is about to happen to them in the next 8 years.
WHY should blacks blindly vote for this man just because he is black? What is in it for them? Politics is all about what's in one's own best interest. How will Obama as president improve the plight of blacks in America? Will it bring about better schools? Safer streets? More health care? Better infrastructure? Rebuild the Ninth Ward? So what is in it for blacks to go all out and fight tooth and nail for this man as the first black president? Or is this all about symbolism and blacks just being happy with a black man as president. Heck, if that is all that this is about, then there was ALREADY a black president in Bill "Bubba" Clinton. And what did HE do for black folks? Blacks have had mayors of almost every big city in America over the last 30 years and what has THAT done for them? Wilson Goode dropped bombs on West Philadelphia. Marion Barry was caught with crack and relected multiple times. Ray Nagin sat back and watched his OWN PEOPLE drown and still hasn't done anything to bring back the Ninth ward. So if ANYTHING blacks should have learned that JUST being BLACK does not mean a politician will FURTHER the interests of black folks. The fact that all this support for Obama is boiling down to simplistic support of "symbolism" only means that blacks in America will CONTINUE to be under served by the system they live in politically. It also means that the Condoleeza Rices's and Colin Powells as glorified affirmative action babies, symbolic figureheads of black progress who HAVE DONE NOTHING to help black folks in America and that black faces are nothing more than trophy toys in the window and don't represent REAL CHANGE.
What you say is absolutely true in all areas. What you are obseving are merely symptoms of the mis-direction and confusion of the "worldwide" black mind which infects blacks in Africa, the carribean, as well as America.
Simply put; Blacks have no plan. This is apparent with Obama, as well as with the invasion of Northern Africa. There exists no cohesive structure or primary objective to anything that we do on a pervasive global scale. We have black politicians, black clergy, black police, black bankers, but no explicit common agenda they work towards other then personal survival.
The single most and largest objective in place is from the work of one primary division which has set it's sights on integration and assimilation. This is the Obama crowd. You need to understand that black males were never overwhelmingly supportive of Obama's campaign. This has less to do with any simple, crabs-in-a-barrel explanation, but rather the fact that Obama has never spoken to the needs of black men and has always appeared as a trojan horse.
In short, Obama really isn't important for anything other then symbolic content. What is important is the recognition and compelling need for blacks to establish something remotely resembling, a plan. A plan that specifically addresses black needs and ignores everything else.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
And excell they do because of instead of polishing up on black radical rhetoric they learned the skills neccessary for national infrastructure back home in the islands where they are the majority and thus lack the minority mentality of mighty morons like you.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Is this why so many blacks from the Caribbean excell in Black America?
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The Carribean is like a beach front plantation for white folk. They go there and have blacks cater to their every need including wiping their asses if they desired. They had the same planned for Cuba, but at least Cuba fought back. That's not a victim mentality in the carribean. That's the step beyond, at acceptance. The very last phase of Stockholm syndrome.
Yo fool. The operative phrase is, "IN black America "
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Yay. It's good to laugh. Stuffed shirts like you need do it much much more often and regularly.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Yes, and all this speech about Chimps is enlightening, how? Or, was that supposed to pass for some form of joke? If so, you have a Bob Hope/Ben Stein like sense of humor.
LOL, I'm laughing at that.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
What black countries in the Carribean are doing so great? Carribean countries some of the poorest in the world, most notably Haiti, but others are not doing that much better.
So now we can ignore all of that and focus on a hand full of Caribs in America who have "made it"?
No wonder so many accept the Obamas, Condoleezas and Powells of the world.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Damn pana what'd I do to you? And don't jealous because femmes less than half my age gravitate to me (not me running after them). Be a sun not a son and you'll have a multiplanetary solar system dizzily spinning around you in all their diversity too!
BTW -- I have a Yamaha not a yarmulke.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: alTakruri wrote:
quote: Is this why so many blacks from the Caribbean excell in Black America? When playing cards a certian hand is called West Indian landlord and his Black American renters.
No matter how much your fake yamaka wearing ass wants to fantasize, their miniscule wealth doesn't compare to AAs. Your wanna be jew, jew ass should stick to whining, bitching, and moaning about them berber bitches not wanting your dirty ass.
Either that or stick to chasing around after those flat assed, flat chested "HOT Indonesian chicks". <LOL, LOL, LOL>
And here's some advice for you fake kike sahel mushmouth ghetto ass...
You're supposed to put your draws on after you wash your boodie, not before. Now go take your dirty ass a bath and try to get it right this time.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: And excell they do because of instead of polishing up on black radical rhetoric they learned the skills neccessary for national infrastructure back home in the islands where they are the majority and thus lack the minority mentality of mighty morons like you.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Is this why so many blacks from the Caribbean excell in Black America?
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: The Carribean is like a beach front plantation for white folk. They go there and have blacks cater to their every need including wiping their asses if they desired. They had the same planned for Cuba, but at least Cuba fought back. That's not a victim mentality in the carribean. That's the step beyond, at acceptance. The very last phase of Stockholm syndrome.
Yo fool. The operative phrase is, "IN black America "
Obviously we have a mismatch on what we both consider "success". If I were looking at life as you, I've become "successful" years ago. It seems to me, your idea of "EXCEL" is through integration/assimilation, and continued subjugation. This is ok for boys, but not a place for real men. America's black are comprised of blacks from all around the globe. Depending on their backgrounds, environment, experiences, they will either choose the path of least resistance, integration, or they will endeavor to create an expanded worldview by addressing real solutions to the many and numerous black problems which assimilation does not. DOn't be mad and defensive. Just open your eyes and grow stronger.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
We're mismatched altogether.
You spout empty internet rhetoric like a bitter mint. I work with real people toward mutual betterment.
End of story. Hope you get the moral.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
LOL, Rhetoric & Betterment, that must be your favorite song, and the only one in your collection. My song is, A man without a plan, is no man at all.
At least I don't have to ask if Sheila E has ever been with a black man. Jeez, the lady used to play for Marvin Gaye, and George Duke! What a dunce...but I'm not mad atcha!
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
And no wonder all you can do is fuss and fume about who to you is the alpowerful white man and how we're powerless to do anything other than be the dupes pawns and victims of your mighty white gods on earth able to quash any other peoples designs for themselves anywhere on earth.
Yeah, the white man's got a god complex and your kind gave it to him, Almighty God Whitey.
What's in your in eye that you can't see, in Bob's words, "we forward in this generation triumphantly."
Forget White Bogeyman why don't you "emancipate yourself from mental slavery." Your whitey god almighty can't. None but ourselves can free our minds."
Forget about him and wringing over his history and "Wont you help to sing Dese songs of freedom? - cause all I ever had: Redemption songs - All I ever had: Redemption songs: These songs of freedom, Songs of freedom."
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: What black countries in the Carribean are doing so great? Carribean countries some of the poorest in the world, most notably Haiti, but others are not doing that much better.
So now we can ignore all of that and focus on a hand full of Caribs in America who have "made it"?
No wonder so many accept the Obamas, Condoleezas and Powells of the world.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: No man at all.
The title of the autobiography of your empty rhetorical lack of a life.
Betterment begins with self, and radiates outwards to others. To achieve betterment of self, one must first understand and acknowledge the dynamics of what it is he/she is addressing.
We are all demented and transformed by our "black" experiences, but the difference is; some understand this and spend a lifetime correcting and compensating, while others stay fitted in entrophy, consuming the addictive dopant in larger quantities while wallowing in their pride in their second rate imitation of their masters. The circles of power are filled with the latter.
What we have "here", is the black world in microcosm. Two dialectically opposed points of view on how to "better" ourselves and our people.
One chooses subjugation via assimilation (you), while the other chooses, social/finacial/industrial sovereignty. This is the divide we see in blacks in America, as well as Africa and the Carribean.
Who is right? I (standing with Garvey/Malcohm/King) choose the path of maximum resistance. It is an almost impossible goal, mainly due to the divide. However, the benefits are infinitely rewarding.
You (and Dubois/Obamaites) choose the path of least resistance and has the minimum benefit, Integration.
Who is right?
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: And no wonder all you can do is fuss and fume about who to you is the alpowerful white man and how we're powerless to do anything other than be the dupes pawns and victims of your mighty white gods on earth able to quash any other peoples designs for themselves anywhere on earth.
Yeah, the white man's got a god complex and your kind gave it to him, Almighty God Whitey.
What's in your in eye that you can't see, in Bob's words, "we forward in this generation triumphantly."
Forget White Bogeyman why don't you "emancipate yourself from mental slavery." Your whitey god almighty can't. None but ourselves can free our minds."
Forget about him and wringing over his history and "Wont you help to sing Dese songs of freedom? - cause all I ever had: Redemption songs - All I ever had: Redemption songs: These songs of freedom, Songs of freedom."
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: What black countries in the Carribean are doing so great? Carribean countries some of the poorest in the world, most notably Haiti, but others are not doing that much better.
So now we can ignore all of that and focus on a hand full of Caribs in America who have "made it"?
No wonder so many accept the Obamas, Condoleezas and Powells of the world.
I spoke of the economic situation of black countries in the Carribean not being that great and all you talk about is a bunch of nonsense. I wasn't attacking you, as opposed to pointing out the fact that a couple successful blacks in America does not make any group better off, whether African, African American, Caribbean or anywhere else. If that was the case, then continental Africa would be doing SUPER based SOLELY on the fact that Africans in the U.S. do better than the native Africans who have been there a while. Bottom line, it really doesn't mean much in the big picture.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
He's upset with me for speaking against groups unfavorable to real black progress. So, now he's on an emotional and destructive war path.
It really is about, The Big Picture, and that's what many Pro-Obama blacks don't get or see.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Then you truly are a fool and a nitwit who has not the sense to build upon what his betters have founded for him.
Those who want to learn how to go about empowering black communities will click the links, buy the books, study and analyze their design and blueprints, and move beyond rhetoric to actually doing something positive for African peoples at home and abroad.
There's a reason why GOOGLE comes up blank when querying "altakruri madhubuti site:egyptsearch.com" but worthless roorag by you pops right up.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Sorry, but I don't click on trojan traps.
Betterment begins with self, and radiates outwards to others. To achieve betterment of self, one must first understand and acknowledge the dynamics of what it is he/she is addressing.
We are all demented and transformed by our "black" experiences, but the difference is; some understand this and spend a lifetime correcting and compensating, while others stay fitted in entrophy, consuming the addictive dopant in larger quantities while wallowing in their pride in their second rate imitation of their masters. The circles of power are filled with the latter.
What we have "here", is the black world in microcosm. Two dialectically opposed points of view on how to "better" ourselves and our people.
One chooses subjugation via assimilation (you), while the other chooses, social/finacial/industrial sovereignty. This is the divide we see in blacks in America, as well as Africa and the Carribean.
Who is right? I (standing with Garvey/Malcohm/King) choose the path of maximum resistance. It is an almost impossible goal, mainly due to the divide. However, the benefits are infinitely rewarding.
You (and Dubois/Obamaites) choose the path of least resistance and has the minimum benefit, Integration.
Who is right?
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
I foresaw this rift between alTakruri and meninarmer/Doug. Three exceptional Africans who see the same problem but different solutions.
alTakruri's solution is to act. Meninarmer/Doug's solution is to re-act. I am a student of both approaches. It's sort of like the immutable relationship between architecting (quality) and engineering (quantity). Both are utilised in the building of any system.
Personally, I think both solutions provide the complete yin-yang solution. BUT, in the construction of any system, architecting must occur before engineering so alTakruri's message is more imperative.
my 2 cents.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
You don't have the foggiest. Without asking me particulars, you'll never know my views. But as infantile as your political knowledge and black consciousness is, it's impossible for you to see beyond the neat little "either or" categories you were taught to the larger wholistic overview of life's entirety or as John Coltrane taught "it all has to do with it"
While you've focused on your ego in a meninarmer vs alTakruri rhtorical outpouring I've directed members and lurkers and surfers alike to sources that will inspire and forever change their lives. But you're too megalomaniacal to even visit the sites less lone analyze the proven works of your betters.
You're living proof of the stagnant level maintained by those who refuse to learn from and build upon what the foregoing generations giants have bestowed and start all over from square one thus aiding the oppressor keep a leading edge as he moves on to succeeding squares.
I mean in rhetorical display you are so ignorant and unstudied that you don't even realize King was an integrationist totally unlike Garvey or Malcolm. But to you it sounds good to link them and imagine yourself as great as either of them.
Lemme tell you. You ain't no Garvey. Garvey was a prophet sent from the Eternal. Men of his calibre of greatness aren't sent very often which is why the most successful leaders look to them for their own patterns without the ego of imagining they stand alongside a Garvey or an Elijah Muhammed, etc. You couldn't as much as tie their laces so don't equate your rantings to their aphorisms and statements on anything or anybody.
You are nothing and nobody meninarmer. You are bereft of deeds of community action. You are simply a rhetorical reactionary playing radical revolutionary rebel without a clue.
When you have works in the real community of black people wrking for and achieving empowerment in life's immediate day to day issues come back and teach reality.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Sorry, but I don't click on trojan traps.
Betterment begins with self, and radiates outwards to others. To achieve betterment of self, one must first understand and acknowledge the dynamics of what it is he/she is addressing.
We are all demented and transformed by our "black" experiences, but the difference is; some understand this and spend a lifetime correcting and compensating, while others stay fitted in entrophy, consuming the addictive dopant in larger quantities while wallowing in their pride in their second rate imitation of their masters. The circles of power are filled with the latter.
What we have "here", is the black world in microcosm. Two dialectically opposed points of view on how to "better" ourselves and our people.
One chooses subjugation via assimilation (you), while the other chooses, social/finacial/industrial sovereignty. This is the divide we see in blacks in America, as well as Africa and the Carribean.
Who is right? I (standing with Garvey/Malcohm/King) choose the path of maximum resistance. It is an almost impossible goal, mainly due to the divide. However, the benefits are infinitely rewarding.
You (and Dubois/Obamaites) choose the path of least resistance and has the minimum benefit, Integration.
Who is right?
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: You don't have the foggiest. Without asking me particulars, you'll never know my views. But as infantile as your political knowledge and black consciousness is, it's impossible for you to see beyond the neat little "either or" categories you were taught to the larger wholistic overview of life's entirety or as John Coltrane taught "it all has to do with it"
While you've focused on your ego in a meninarmer vs alTakruri rhtorical outpouring I've directed members and lurkers and surfers alike to sources that will inspire and forever change their lives. But you're too megalomaniacal to even visit the sites less lone analyze the proven works of your betters.
You're living proof of the stagnant level maintained by those who refuse to learn from and build upon what the foregoing generations giants have bestowed and start all over from square one thus aiding the oppressor keep a leading edge as he moves on to succeeding squares.
I mean in rhetorical display you are so ignorant and unstudied that you don't even realize King was an integrationist totally unlike Garvey or Malcolm. But to you it sounds good to link them and imagine yourself as great as either of them.
Lemme tell you. You ain't no Garvey. Garvey was a prophet sent from the Eternal. Men of his calibre of greatness aren't sent very often which is why the most successful leaders look to them for their own patterns without the ego of imagining they stand alongside a Garvey or an Elijah Muhammed, etc. You couldn't as much as tie their laces so don't equate your rantings to their aphorisms and statements on anything or anybody.
You are nothing and nobody meninarmer. You are bereft of deeds of community action. You are simply a rhetorical reactionary playing radical revolutionary rebel without a clue.
When you have works in the real community of black people wrking for and achieving empowerment in life's immediate day to day issues come back and teach reality.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Sorry, but I don't click on trojan traps.
Betterment begins with self, and radiates outwards to others. To achieve betterment of self, one must first understand and acknowledge the dynamics of what it is he/she is addressing.
We are all demented and transformed by our "black" experiences, but the difference is; some understand this and spend a lifetime correcting and compensating, while others stay fitted in entrophy, consuming the addictive dopant in larger quantities while wallowing in their pride in their second rate imitation of their masters. The circles of power are filled with the latter.
What we have "here", is the black world in microcosm. Two dialectically opposed points of view on how to "better" ourselves and our people.
One chooses subjugation via assimilation (you), while the other chooses, social/finacial/industrial sovereignty. This is the divide we see in blacks in America, as well as Africa and the Carribean.
Who is right? I (standing with Garvey/Malcohm/King) choose the path of maximum resistance. It is an almost impossible goal, mainly due to the divide. However, the benefits are infinitely rewarding.
You (and Dubois/Obamaites) choose the path of least resistance and has the minimum benefit, Integration.
Who is right?
Feel better? This is nothing new. I've had white people call me names before, shoot at me, try to helm my businesses up, spy on me, even try to run me over in their cars. Guess what, I'm still here.
LOL, been there/done that, you can't hurt my feelings, and I'm sorry if I hurt yours.
Good luck with your endeavors, and I hope your Obama makes it to the primary. Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Yeah you right. And, there's even more to it than yin-yang. Neither of our viewpoints is even one out of 360°. More like -- so to speak -- a tangent off an angle of x degree.
Applying wholistic analysis one can only conclude there is no one right way there are tangent of a 90° angle right ways. Even ones that seemingly contradict those held most dearly to ones way of thinking.
quote:Originally posted by HORUS^*^: I foresaw this rift between alTakruri and meninarmer/Doug. Three exceptional Africans who see the same problem but different solutions.
alTakruri's solution is to act. Meninarmer/Doug's solution is to re-act. I am a student of both approaches. It's sort of like the immutable relationship between architecting (quality) and engineering (quantity). Both are utilised in the building of any system.
Personally, I think both solutions provide the complete yin-yang solution. BUT, in the construction of any system, architecting must occur before engineering so alTakruri's message is more imperative.
my 2 cents.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
It appears then that you as an American are not going to vote in your presidential election. Very black reactionary radical revolutionary of you.
He's not my Obama but he'd sure in hell be better for blacks than Clinton (except for the foolish set of those who call the white man that belonged to a country club that excluded blacks -- he claimed he didn't know no blacks were allowed there, guess he never looked at the people playing golf all around him -- the first black president and thus assume Hillary would be the first female black president). Or do you suppose Mc Cain has any interest of blacks in mind?
If you were man (mind) enough to ask you may learn what my views on Obama are instead of playing psychic and projecting a fantasy of your contriving onto me.
All you know is my opinion on Wright's media heyday.
BTW - my endeavors have nothing to do with luck. It's all about skills and honing them through implementation not endlessly jaw jacking.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
Good luck with your endeavors, and I hope your Obama makes it to the primary.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by HORUS^*^: I foresaw this rift between alTakruri and meninarmer/Doug. Three exceptional Africans who see the same problem but different solutions.
alTakruri's solution is to act. Meninarmer/Doug's solution is to re-act. I am a student of both approaches. It's sort of like the immutable relationship between architecting (quality) and engineering (quantity). Both are utilised in the building of any system.
Personally, I think both solutions provide the complete yin-yang solution. BUT, in the construction of any system, architecting must occur before engineering so alTakruri's message is more imperative.
my 2 cents.
Actually I have my own view on things concerning Obama.
It boils down to the fact that Obama is being trumped up because both he and Ms. Clinton are a desperate attempt to placate voters into thinking that they are getting "change" in the White House. Sorry, but they are appealing to emotionalism in women and blacks for a woman or black president. They are pushing drugs because Obama and Clinton are nothing but the quick fix high to keep the population tuned out to the major issues coming down the pike and the fact that the TRUE power in government ALREADY has a blueprint in place for what is going to happen over the next 8 years. Who is president doesn't really matter. But the system NEEDS the people to THINK they really have a voice. They CAN'T allow the voters to become TOO disenfranchised in the political system. Therefore, Obama and Clinton are the PERFECT way to PLACATE the voters and soothe them over, even as the system CONTINUES to ride rough shod over them.
If you really want to know where some of the this comes from, look at the Council Of Foreign relations. It is a veritable who's who of media and corporate big wigs. Such a combination of media and corporations cannot be GOOD for foreign policy, yet this group is very influential in determining the direction of American foreign policy and these is but ONE of the examples of how America is TRULY run and WHO runs it.
Not to mention that Leonid Brzezinski is Obama's chief foreign policy adviser and the man who CREATED the Mujehhedin and Taliban in the first place as well as a founding member of the Trilateral Commission.
Anything in brackets in the quote below, I have added for elucidation:
quote: Because the situation is ill-structured (black civilisation), the goal cannot be optimization (i.e. Doug/meninarmer's approach). The architect seeks satisfactory and feasible problem-solution pairs. Good architecture and good engineering are both products of art and science, and a mixture of analysis and heuristics. However, the weight will fall on heuristics and "art" during architecting.
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: From a commentator: Dominique , April 30, 2008
quote:If I were not convinced before, I am convinced now that Black folks have lost their minds! To think that Barack Obama is going to advocate issues that disproportionately impact the African-American community when he has turned his back on these issues throughout his campaign is laughable! Why should we elect a Black man who will not stand up for us, when he clearly told a Latino-American crowd in Texas -- as he was pandering for their votes -- that he was the candidate for Latino-Americans? Barack would never state the same for African-Americans, yet we, with low self-esteem, are so starved for representation, that we keep running after this man as if he is our savior. I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for? A symbol can't do nothing but represent different things to different people. I'll take courage, strength of character, strong leadership, good policies, proven track record, and a bias for action anyday over symbolism! All in all, if Black folks can't hold Barack's feet to the fire during the campaign, we can forget getting anything out of him during a Barack presidency. The man has turned his back on his own pastor of 20 years. . .what do you think who will do for you? Stay tuned for more of the same during a Barack presidency.
What a hypocrite, coward and a chickenshit!! he is, that Barak Obama !!!
What chickenshit this crabbish propaganda is. These selfish, race-obsessed loons somehow can't get it through their egotistical heads what Obama represents and what his candidacy signifies. If it isn't a degenerate bucket crab like Rev. Wright, then it's somebody else trying to undermine unity with their black separatist, Marcus Garvey nonsense trying to be applied to 21rst century politics. Old dinosaur mentality from these old civil rights arm chair activists with no solutions other than to sabotage the only viable black candidate in history and only person inherently opposed to today's establishment. Somebody with the least experience in Washington and someone who can get young people engaged, as opposed to a polarizing harlot and some 71 year old republican who never wants to leave a war we should have never started and who thinks the future of our economy is dependent exclusively on his capitalist based theme of government non-actions. Get the hell out of here with this rubbish! There is no stopping this movement so haters need to deal with it and get over it now.
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
I posted my last post because alTakruri once said to me "our house in not fully built" by which he meant Black civilisation still needs to be architected. Whites have a fully built house and go about the business of optimization/engineering. We as Blacks cannot do that - lol, there is nothing to optimize!
We must first build. And this requires first architects of relevant institutions, then engineers to fill in the details.
I cannot claim to be as wise as you guys lol I'm not even 30 yet. BUT, my day job is as a software architect so this philosophy is very clear in my mind.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by HORUS^*^: I foresaw this rift between alTakruri and meninarmer/Doug. Three exceptional Africans who see the same problem but different solutions.
alTakruri's solution is to act. Meninarmer/Doug's solution is to re-act. I am a student of both approaches. It's sort of like the immutable relationship between architecting (quality) and engineering (quantity). Both are utilised in the building of any system.
Personally, I think both solutions provide the complete yin-yang solution. BUT, in the construction of any system, architecting must occur before engineering so alTakruri's message is more imperative.
my 2 cents.
alTakruri definitely has the better argument..
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Doug there's no common ground for us to even begin a discussion. Your stance is based on measuring up to "the white man." My stance is from progressive development vs stagnation or retrogression.
To you, every advancement black people anywhere have made since the age of European imperialism amounts to nothing at all.
Sorry I just can't deal with such a defeatist frame of reference.
We just are so opposite that I can't even see where your comment about some few Caribes in the USA having "made it" has to do with what I said. It's not about a few spectacular success stories it's about entire groups having the skills and mentality to run all the day to day hands on stuff imperative to the hum drum of living.
For example who knows the in and outs of road or highway construction in the islands. It's not the redlegs. But in the USA those crews are damn near all white.
I hope this gives you some small idea of where I was trying to come from and since maybe I did personally attack you instead of your modus operandi Doug I apologise to you because in the end after all this time I consider you a colleague and I have the greatest admiration of the research skills you displayed in uncovering all that info about the indigenous blacks of Asia and educating me where I was lacking in knowledge.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: What black countries in the Carribean are doing so great? Carribean countries some of the poorest in the world, most notably Haiti, but others are not doing that much better.
So now we can ignore all of that and focus on a hand full of Caribs in America who have "made it"?
No wonder so many accept the Obamas, Condoleezas and Powells of the world.
. . . .
I spoke of the economic situation of black countries in the Carribean not being that great and all you talk about is a bunch of nonsense. I wasn't attacking you, as opposed to pointing out the fact that a couple successful blacks in America does not make any group better off, whether African, African American, Caribbean or anywhere else. If that was the case, then continental Africa would be doing SUPER based SOLELY on the fact that Africans in the U.S. do better than the native Africans who have been there a while. Bottom line, it really doesn't mean much in the big picture.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: [q] It appears then that you as an American are not going to vote in your presidential election. Very black reactionary radical revolutionary of you.
Unfounded Assumption #1: Yet another invalid conclusion
He's not my Obama but he'd sure in hell be better for blacks than Clinton (except for the foolish set of those who call the white man that belonged to a country club that excluded blacks -- he claimed he didn't know no blacks were allowed there, guess he never looked at the people playing golf all around him -- the first black president and thus assume Hillary would be the first female black president). Or do you suppose Mc Cain has any interest of blacks in mind?
Unfounded Assumption #2: Yet another invalid conclusion
If you were man (mind) enough to ask you may learn what my views on Obama are instead of playing psychic and projecting a fantasy of your contriving onto me.
All you know is my opinion on Wright's media heyday.
If I cared, I would have asked. I didn't ask, therefore....
BTW - my endeavors have nothing to do with luck. It's all about skills and honing them through implementation not endlessly jaw jacking.
yada, yada, yada. OK, you win, I take it back. Will await to see your architected plan. It should be quite amusing seeing that you process information so poorly and have trouble with concepts outside of a very limited range.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by meninarmer: [q]
Good luck with your endeavors, and I hope your Obama makes it to the primary. [/q]
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Doug there's no common ground for us to even begin a discussion. Your stance is based on measuring up to "the white man." My stance is from progressive development vs stagnation or retrogression.
To you, every advancement black people anywhere have made since the age of European imperialism amounts to nothing at all.
Sorry I just can't deal with such a defeatist frame of reference.
We just are so opposite that I can't even see where your comment about some few Caribes in the USA having "made it" has to do with what I said. It's not about a few spectacular success stories it's about entire groups having the skills and mentality to run all the day to day hands on stuff imperative to the hum drum of living.
For example who knows the in and outs of road or highway construction in the islands. It's not the redlegs. But in the USA those crews are damn near all white.
I hope this gives you some small idea of where I was trying to come from and since maybe I did personally attack you instead of your modus operandi Doug I apologise to you because in the end after all this time I consider you a colleague and I have the greatest admiration of the research skills you displayed in uncovering all that info about the indigenous blacks of Asia and educating me where I was lacking in knowledge.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: What black countries in the Carribean are doing so great? Carribean countries some of the poorest in the world, most notably Haiti, but others are not doing that much better.
So now we can ignore all of that and focus on a hand full of Caribs in America who have "made it"?
No wonder so many accept the Obamas, Condoleezas and Powells of the world.
. . . .
I spoke of the economic situation of black countries in the Carribean not being that great and all you talk about is a bunch of nonsense. I wasn't attacking you, as opposed to pointing out the fact that a couple successful blacks in America does not make any group better off, whether African, African American, Caribbean or anywhere else. If that was the case, then continental Africa would be doing SUPER based SOLELY on the fact that Africans in the U.S. do better than the native Africans who have been there a while. Bottom line, it really doesn't mean much in the big picture.
I never said there was a common ground. I think Horus said that.
The simple fact is I only posted my point of view on Obama. My view stands alone and is mine alone. What other people think and feel is theirs and theirs alone.
All this extraneous empty rhetoric is useless and provides nothing in terms of insight for those who want to understand how "the system" works and how it works against black folks.
If you believe the system works, then so be it.
I believe that any system works and works best for those who create, control and maintain it. Barack Obama as candidate or president DOES NOT represent control or maintenance of the social, political, economic or military system and certainly NOT for black folks. NO president does. A president is a figurehead and nothing more. The point here being that Americans and people in general need to learn and understand how the system REALLY WORKS and who REALLY controls it, instead of relying on spoon fed drama and dehydrated, shaped and formed fact food bites given to them by the media. It is almost CERTAIN not to have ANY nutritional or intellectual value and may ACTUALLY lead to retardation.... For blacks the issue seems to be not so much as ever hoping to CONTROL "the system" for the ultimate betterment and improvement of black life world wide (which should be the goal), but to at least be PART of the existing system and get a GOOD SEAT at the table. Well, that sounds good, but at the end of the day, that really does NOTHING to ensure that YOUR INTERESTS are promoted and supported by the powers that be. In fact, it means that your interests are SUBVERTED to the goal of just being in the game, whether "the game" is really working in the best interest of blacks folks overall or not. This game being played by Obama is not new and is the same game that allowed a black woman to rise and become the Secretary of State, who CERTAINLY does not make ANY EFFORT to even PRETEND to represent BLACK FOLKS in any way, shape or form as that would THREATEN her position, even though she is a CHILD of the civil rights struggle. I am sure that NOBODY would claim that her actions and the policies of the POLITICAL SYSTEM that she SUPPORTS as secretary of state reflect ANYTHING NEAR the types of agendas and policies that would be indicative of the civil rights movement.
And the last point that is most important is that for those who feel strong, independent and confident in their own abilities, this issue about Obama, Reverend Wright and the presidency is a non starter. The fact that any such discussion turns into base level arguments and silly rhetoric only exposes the amount of DESPERATION and LACK of confidence that is ACTUALLY felt throughout the black community, despite all the denials and posturing to the contrary. If one is confident in THEIR OWN ability to make change in THEIR OWN lives, then such desperation and bitterness would not be so evident. But since MANY are afraid to admit that things have NOT worked out for the best in MANY ways for blacks, they maintain an attitude of defiance and pride, even though by all statistical measures things are going BACKWARDS for blacks, not only in America but world wide. It is only when one looks at reality in the face and stops trying to HIDE from it, that REAL CHANGE can begin. However, "the system" in many ways promotes itself as the SOLUTION, when in reality it CREATES many of the problems it SUPPOSEDLY wants to solve. That is why Obama is needed, as well as Clinton, because they represent HOPE AD FAITH and BELIEF in a system that is BANKRUPT to the core. Therefore, buyer beware.
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
^WHAT do you YOU think is the SOLUTION?
Posted by Novel (Member # 14348) on :
Forget the present options allowed the plebes of democracy.
WE should act as saboteurs against the Beast.
You bright and passionate people are arguing over what is best for Babylon, and its civizens.
Let this one regional part of it continue burning!
Vote in the worst candidate and allow the United States to continue implosion under feckless leadership.
Remember, from ashes...good things grow.
This course will require more courage and endurance than most people are willing to find within themselves.
I consider it as the only solution to change the current status quo, and not choosing a Chamberlain named Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton.
Supporting the present Panoptic Civilization is ultimately self-defeating. Working for its survival is risking survival of those men and women who would have real change for better in the world, and truth as the dominant force in an individual’s life.
Food and gasoline prices are rising high enough to generate popular anger against the government...that is good.
The American people need to wake up and realize what so many others around the world have been suffering.
Posted by samegy (Member # 15090) on :
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I've traveled much more and seen many things then you. Last time in the carribean I saw many old white women there paying brothers for sex on the beach. They looked like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
I don't think you have travelled much. You think that they do that only in the Carribean? If the men accept, then it is because they WANT TO. White people paying for sex occurs in every country, even in European countries. White people pay for sex with white prostitutes in America. This is not a good argument.
Posted by samegy (Member # 15090) on :
quote:Originally posted by HORUS^*^:
quote:Originally posted by samegy: [QUOTE] Many black Africans and black people from the Carribean don't have this sort of inferiority & victim mentality like how African-Americans do. They are very confident in who they are and don't focus on this kind of stupidity.
I'm calling divisive bullshit on this one. All Africans: Continential, Carribean or American, have pretty much the same problems.
As a "Continental African", I'm very proud of the progresses being made by the "African American" branch of the family.
Not all black people have the same problems. Call it whatever you want but it is what it is. Why everthing has to be black this and black that for everything and putting people in boxes? Are you really an African? Do you have the same culture? No. Do black people have the same culture as African Americans? No (except for the ones who were colonized by the Brits). Neither (generally speaking) walk around with this big chip on their shoulder feeling so bad about themselves (and I am only referring to african americans who always concentrate on the issue on race). Say that you are an "continental african" to a real black african person with their african culture and you will see their reaction and they will laugh (if not in front of you, it will be behind your back). You will know whether there is not a division or not.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
This is not important, and it matters not how well you think I've traveled. The point is, The carribean and blacks there are doing no better off then blacks in the US, Africa, Haiti, The UK, or the Dominican Republic.
My guess is, the best place socially/economically for blacks in this point in time is probably, Canada. But that's just my personal opinion, based on my travels there. Others may see things there I have not and disagree. It's all based on what your perception is about what you feel you need to succeed.
Posted by samegy (Member # 15090) on :
"The carribean and blacks there are doing no better off then blacks in the US, Africa, Haiti, The UK, or the Dominican Republic."
This is not true. Many cannot wait to go back to their home because they know they will have a better life back at home (and I am NOT referring to the islands that were colonized by the Brits). They don't focus on the topic of race and talk about whether ancient Egypt was really black or not. They don't care about this. Whether it is true or not, they would say, "Really" then go right back to their lives. Black people are not the only people who have been discriminated against. Ethiopians discriminate against each other by tribe. In Iraq, it's the Kurds. Let's not forget centuries and centuries of the Jews being discriminated against. Even whites discriminated against each other in America (Irish vs English). There have been improvements in America. There isn't anymore slavery here (but unfortunately many are still slaves in their minds). There isn't segregation anymore. There are black millionaires. Look at Oprah who is a billionare and has so much influence. Who would think that a man who is half African could become a president candidate? Things will improve even more in time. Even in the white house under the power of Bush, who has been referred to as a "chimp" in this thread (and I am not a republican nor support Bush), has selected competent blacks for very good positions in the White House that NO previous president has done.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
^ You obviously haven't met my cook. {God..does she make great Callaloo!} She's from the islands and is a regular Angela Davis. She looks like her too. Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by HORUS^*^: ^WHAT do you YOU think is the SOLUTION?
The solution is for blacks to begin working on building their OWN networks of support and advancement that DO NOT depend promises and lies from a political system that largely does nothing for them. And at the same token, demand MORE of the black politicians who ARE in office, who often take advantage of their SKIN COLOR to get elected, but do NOTHING for those that voted for them in the first place.
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by HORUS^*^: ^WHAT do you YOU think is the SOLUTION?
The solution is for blacks to begin working on building their OWN networks ...
Isn't this what alTakruri is promoting? as opposed to complaining?
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Who is complaining? I said that Obama is no savior for black folks and does not represent change for a system that has done NOTHING for black folks over the last 300 years, even WITH black politicians at various levels. I could count the number of truly PROGRESSIVE black politicians who actually DID something for their communities on one hand. My favorite being Harold Washington of Chicago.
That is not complaining. That is a statement of MY perspective on American politics.
Like I said, people who are frustrated are FRUSTRATED because they KNOW that blacks are STILL struggling to achieve true progress and betterment. But some would like to posture and pretend that this isn't the case, hence a lot of empty rhetoric.
If something is a problem then noting it isn't complaining, it is the first step towards FIXING it. IGNORING it only prolongs the problem. And for too long black folks have been IGNORING the reality that they must BUILD THEIR OWN as opposed to wasting all their time trying to become glorified WHITE AMERICANS in black face.
The debate between integrationists and nationalists among blacks is not new. These ideas are old and have been around for a long time. Again, trying to lump this into a Al Takrur vs Doug M kind of debate is a sign of a seriously LACKING of understanding of the issues and dynamics among black folks in America as well as the diaspora and an example of the rhetoric that is spewed because SOME people are to PROUD to admit that things ain't as perfect as they want them to be.
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
^Um, I never said you were complaining though I can see how you might have thought I implied that. All I said was, alTakruri proposes solutions for nation building.
I am actually a "nationalist" and not an "integrationist" which means I believe that until we start building African institutions - on the LAND of Africa or ONLINE, we're just going round in circles.
Additionally, I think Africans also have a claim to that land of America so there could be some sort integration possibilities there but in an equal sense - not the bullshit that's actually been going on. Personally, I don't care about America though African-Americans should. My focus is on Nigeria/West-Africa.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Supercar/Mystery Solver/Ausarian/Troll Shredder/Ban Master:
[...]and Obama's recent denounciation of Rev Wright is a clear indicator of this. He is pandering to his ruling 'elite' social base, to assure them that the speak of 'change' is nothing more than empty campaign 'populist' rhetoric to get him elected, but that he is no radical for real social change. It is also a tacit reassurance to the said social base, of his abilility to make "tough decisions" and hence, the "ruthlessness" deemed necessary to be the Comander-in-chief of the United States.
In short - Obama is really the status quo - NOT change - whose appeal is to put a "new face" [whether it is being a relatively unknown newcomer to the scene, or for his "exotic" characterizations] on the "image-tattered" U.S. imperialism both domestically and abroad.
The sad part of all this in Obama's efforts, is that there real concern in some quarters of the Democractic party that he could well turn out to be just another "Ducacus" - hence, Clinton's argument about Obama's "electability" and insistence on staying in the race.
In his denunciation of the [manchurian?] candidate, I wonder whether Supercar understands the following, whether he has become victom to a conspirationist mentallity, or whether he can state why Obama "is" the status quo [and nothing more?]:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Wright's pettiness for 15 minutes of fame hurt Obama's candidacy. Despite any good Wright has done for upwardly mobile blacks in Chitown, reissuance posturing will never make him a Malcolm X.
Better had he stifled up and allowed the mulatto his shot at the presidency. Crabs in a barrel tendacies plague the USA blacks.
Before Bass master says anything:
I say this not because of any beef or haterism towards Supa, I actually have great respect for Supa, along with Doug, al, rasol, Dje, Obenga, and others.
I just wonder how Supe knows that Obama is the status quo.
Ok, familiars (familiars to others in the system) surround him, but don't they have to?
And, in a nation that just voted for Bush II because he said he was a Christian, and, as a republican would fight for US,
how can one expect even a well intended individual to not denounce what are surely to be deemed "anti-american" remarks?
Not that the people decide, but yet and still, he had to denounce the remarks.
I don't know the 'truth' in it, but someone on the 'tube told me:
quote:Originally posted by HORUS^*^: Meninarmer/Doug's solution is to re-act. I am a student of both approaches. It's sort of like the immutable relationship between
One could say that to catch a fellow's moving arm, elbow, or fist, punch them in the stomach and subdue them ...
... is ... to be pro -active.
And I agree, in the sense that pro- means positive, I would agree that even to counter attack is to be pro-active.
I'd never buy the "be pro-active" and "not re-active" sayings otherwise.
To be proactive to me, entails survival, while reacting is just.. reacting.
When people stopped chasing the heards and berries and cultivated and bred them, they became pro-active.
If you see impending doom or injury, of course reaction is necissary: but the goal is to find some way, to not only suspend it, but to reverse the situation/survive as well.
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: alTakruri definitely has the better argument..
co-sign.
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata:
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: From a commentator: Dominique , April 30, 2008
quote:If I were not convinced before, I am convinced now that Black folks have lost their minds! To think that Barack Obama is going to advocate issues that disproportionately impact the African-American community when he has turned his back on these issues throughout his campaign is laughable! Why should we elect a Black man who will not stand up for us, when he clearly told a Latino-American crowd in Texas -- as he was pandering for their votes -- that he was the candidate for Latino-Americans? Barack would never state the same for African-Americans, yet we, with low self-esteem, are so starved for representation, that we keep running after this man as if he is our savior. I would elect a chimpanzee for President if the chimpanzee was going to advocate and push for policies that would help the middle and low income and underserved people in this country. What do we need a symbol for? A symbol can't do nothing but represent different things to different people. I'll take courage, strength of character, strong leadership, good policies, proven track record, and a bias for action anyday over symbolism! All in all, if Black folks can't hold Barack's feet to the fire during the campaign, we can forget getting anything out of him during a Barack presidency. The man has turned his back on his own pastor of 20 years. . .what do you think who will do for you? Stay tuned for more of the same during a Barack presidency.
What a hypocrite, coward and a chickenshit!! he is, that Barak Obama !!!
What chickenshit this crabbish propaganda is. These selfish, race-obsessed loons somehow can't get it through their egotistical heads what Obama represents and what his candidacy signifies. If it isn't a degenerate bucket crab like Rev. Wright, then it's somebody else trying to undermine unity with their black separatist, Marcus Garvey nonsense trying to be applied to 21rst century politics. Old dinosaur mentality
rofl!!!!
I see you love that old Asian crab basket addage (according to someone I know, an Asian lady told them the saying, and said that 'blacks were like [the] crabs in a basket).
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Damn Gigalos making off with the Clampet clan oil money. Geez, it's a business not a relationship, and those brothers also get the finest babes the great white race has to offer (can't see what's going on behind the rented doors of the wealthy and their sex parties where even husbands rent the gigalos (sometimes 2 at a time to **** their wives while they take a seat light a cigar and watch).
It's just a business. Business is business.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!. . .
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I've traveled much more and seen many things then you. Last time in the carribean I saw many old white women there paying brothers for sex on the beach. They looked like Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies, but them brothers walked around like they had Shelia E.
Naw bruh, it's called: Mon-ey.
But on the serious side I was shocked and amazed to have found out about this secret white fetish as I got older.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
The point I am making is that my position is not about trying to "compete" in ideologies. That is silly. NOBODY owns black empowerment ideologies. I cannot claim to be some great black thinker and ideologue who invented black nationalist thought. The point is that most Africans in America don't even know who Garvey was or anything about the integrationist versus nationalist struggle, even thought THAT STRUGGLE is STILL having a profound impact on the day to day lives of blacks to this day. Just as Nkruma's struggle for nationalism is still a profound factor in the struggle for the improvement of the lives of Africans TO THIS DAY.
Posted by HORUS^*^ (Member # 11484) on :
^I get it.
Blacks who wan't a resolution within the system versus Blacks who wan't a resolution outside the system (by this I mean Blacks who want to build a NEW Blacks-oriented system).
I am on the side of the latter as the former does not appeal to me as a Nigerian. I don't want to have a high paying job within Exxon-Mobil in Nigeria, I want US to own our own oil and the companies that commercialise it.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
^I think the former, ie, "blacks who want a resolution within the system" probably just want a resolution or otherwise are in the minority.
Can't imagine too many blacks being all that in love with the system.
Most probably opt with or without the system, nationalist if we need it.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
Black republicans are a (growing) minority, but they are Pro-system. Many of the TV and radion personalities are pro-system. Randell Robinson (see video above) is very successful (TransAfrica), but just relinquished his American citizenship and moved to Saint Thomas. Steve Wonder moved to Africa, and many more wealthy blacks have migrated out of the country also.
Last time in Paris, I was amazed at the large number of US blacks I met from Chicago (Jazz club), Detroit (Soul Food diner), Baltimore (Musician) who've moved to France and opened small businesses. They say they like their new lives and they'll never return.
My girlfriend's father, a jazz musician, just moved to Holland, never to return. A friend I grew up with, a member of P-Funk, just moved to Paris, never to return. http://www.myspace.com/mudbone2
I believe the majority of US blacks are pro-system, simply because many do not understand how the system works. For example, how they pay taxes and receive no representation, and how those tax dollars are used to implement the very systems and programs that are deployed to contain and oppress them.
I think if more US blacks had the means, many more would simply abandon the US and it's racism.
Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
quote:Originally posted by HORUS^*^:
quote:Originally posted by Mmmkay: ^ This guy is hilarious.
And you're just too stupid. You should keep quiet.
That comment was aimed at argyle's previous post guy, but Obenga posted before me.
Just a clear up.
In any case I fully agree with Obenga's post.
Posted by Jo Nongowa (Member # 14918) on :
Obenga's posts on this thread have been thoughtful, informed and incisive.
Posted by Ausarian (Member # 13266) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box):
quote:Originally posted by Supercar/Mystery Solver/Ausarian/Troll Shredder/Ban Master:
[...]and Obama's recent denounciation of Rev Wright is a clear indicator of this. He is pandering to his ruling 'elite' social base, to assure them that the speak of 'change' is nothing more than empty campaign 'populist' rhetoric to get him elected, but that he is no radical for real social change. It is also a tacit reassurance to the said social base, of his abilility to make "tough decisions" and hence, the "ruthlessness" deemed necessary to be the Comander-in-chief of the United States.
In short - Obama is really the status quo - NOT change - whose appeal is to put a "new face" [whether it is being a relatively unknown newcomer to the scene, or for his "exotic" characterizations] on the "image-tattered" U.S. imperialism both domestically and abroad.
The sad part of all this in Obama's efforts, is that there real concern in some quarters of the Democractic party that he could well turn out to be just another "Ducacus" - hence, Clinton's argument about Obama's "electability" and insistence on staying in the race.
In his denunciation of the [manchurian?] candidate, I wonder whether Supercar understands the following, whether he has become victom to a conspirationist mentallity, or whether he can state why Obama "is" the status quo [and nothing more?
...Before Bass master says anything:
I say this not because of any beef or haterism towards Supa, I actually have great respect for Supa, along with Doug, al, rasol, Dje, Obenga, and others.
I just wonder how Supe knows that Obama is the status quo.
Ok, familiars (familiars to others in the system) surround him, but don't they have to?
And, in a nation that just voted for Bush II because he said he was a Christian, and, as a republican would fight for US,
how can one expect even a well intended individual to not denounce what are surely to be deemed "anti-american" remarks?
Not that the people decide, but yet and still, he had to denounce the remarks.
I don't know the 'truth' in it, but someone on the 'tube told me:
The onus is actually on you to demonstrate through facts why you assume Obama represents some radical change in American politics?...because of his "skin color"?
Let me give you a few basic pointers, that any simpleton in politics would grasp:
- Just research the people handling the Obama campaign from 'behind the scenes' and explain to me how they represent radical change in the American political establishment.
— Just research the campaign financers *outside* of modest donations of ordinary Obama supporters. Explain to me, how these financers stand for radical change in the American political establishment.
— Just research Obama's voting record on the funding of the Iraq war, while he tells his supporters that he's always been against this war, and explain the inconsistency.
— Just research Obama's campaign staff member's contact with the Canadian ambassador to the U.S., reassuring the Canadian government that Obama's public speaking out against NAFTA [in campaign trails in Ohio and like places, where NAFTA is blamed for massive job losses] is just empty campaign rhetoric <<wink, wink>> not to be taken seriously, and demonstrate to me that this is the "new kind of politics" that Obama publically espouses to his supporters.
— Just research Obama's claim to bring troops home immediately, while his campaign staff—including himself—on other occasions say that the troop withdrawal will actually take longer, and that there would still be presence of US troops in Iraq, presumably to "defend the US embassy'. Read the follow quotes from Obama, in the "Foreign Affairs" monthly publication dated to July 2007, and demonstrate to me, how this is a "new kind of politics" in American foreign policy, and therefore represents change:
“To see American power in terminal decline is to ignore America’s great promise and historic purpose in the world.”
“We must use this moment both to rebuild our military and to prepare it for the missions of the future. We must retain the capacity to swiftly defeat any conventional threat to our country and our vital interests. But we must also become better prepared to put boots on the ground in order to take on foes that fight asymmetrical and highly adaptive campaigns on a global scale.”
“[The US] must harness American power to reinvigorate American diplomacy. Tough-minded diplomacy, backed by the whole range of instruments of American power—political, economic, and military—could bring success even when dealing with long-standing adversaries such as Iran and Syria.”
“The Pentagon cannot certify a single army unit within the United States as fully ready to respond in the event of a new crisis or emergency beyond Iraq; 88 percent of the National Guard is not ready to deploy overseas.”
“We must make clear that we seek no permanent bases in Iraq. We should leave behind only a minimal over-the-horizon military force in the region to protect American personnel and facilities, continue training Iraqi security forces, and root out Al Qaeda.”
“It is time for our civilian leaders to acknowledge a painful truth: we cannot impose a military solution on a civil war between Sunni and Shiite factions. The best chance we have to leave Iraq a better place is to pressure these warring parties to find a lasting political solution. And the only effective way to apply this pressure is to begin a phased withdrawal of US forces.”
“I will not hesitate to use force, unilaterally if necessary, to protect the American people or our vital interests whenever we are attacked or imminently threatened.”
“To renew American leadership in the world, we must first bring the Iraq war to a responsible end and refocus our attention on the broader Middle East. Iraq was a diversion from the fight against the terrorists who struck us on 9/11, and incompetent prosecution of the war by America’s civilian leaders compounded the strategic blunder of choosing to wage it in the first place.”
On Israel...
“Our starting point must always be a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel, our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy. That commitment is all the more important as we contend with growing threats in the region—a strengthened Iran, a chaotic Iraq, the resurgence of Al Qaeda, the reinvigoration of Hamas and Hezbollah. Now more than ever, we must strive to secure a lasting settlement of the conflict with two states living side by side in peace and security. To do so, we must help the Israelis identify and strengthen those partners who are truly committed to peace, while isolating those who seek conflict and instability.”
On Iran...
“[T]he big question is going to be, if Iran is resistant to these pressures, including economic sanctions, which I hope will be imposed if they do not cooperate, at what point are we going to, if any, are we going to take military action?”
“I hope it doesn’t get to that point. But realistically, as I watch how this thing has evolved, I’d be surprised if Iran blinked at this point.”
“With the Soviet Union, you did get the sense that they were operating on a model that we could comprehend in terms of, they don’t want to be blown up, we don’t want to be blown up, so you do game theory and calculate ways to contain. I think there are certain elements within the Islamic world right now that don’t make those same calculations.”
On Pakistan...
“I think there are elements within Pakistan right now—if Musharraf is overthrown and they took over—I think we would have to consider going in and taking those bombs out, because I don’t think we can make the same assumptions about how they calculate risks.” [the sort of "calculations" being talked about in the citation immediately above]
On market and economic issues, taken from his "The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream",...
“that is not all that I am.... I believe in the free market, competition, and entrepreneurship, and think no small number of government programs don’t work as advertised.... I think America has more often been a force for good than for ill in the world; I carry few illusions about our enemies, and revere the courage and competence of our military.”
Obama makes this adoration for "free market clear, in a speech at Cooper Union in Manhattan "before a select Wall Street audience":
“I do not believe that government should stand in the way of innovation, or turn back the clock to an older era of regulation.”
Elsewhere, i.e. in his "The Audacity of Hope":
“All of which may explain why, as disturbed as I might have been by Ronald Reagan’s election in 1980...I understood his appeal.... Reagan spoke to America’s longing for order, our need to believe that we are not simply subject to blind, impersonal forces but that we can shape our individual and collective destinies, so long as we rediscover the traditional virtues of hard work, patriotism, personal responsibility, optimism, and faith.”
On social welfare programs, from the same book...
“We should also acknowledge that conservatives—and Bill Clinton—were right about welfare as it was previously structured: By detaching income from work, and by making no demands on welfare recipients other than a tolerance for intrusive bureaucracy and an assurance that no man lived in the same house as the mother of his children, the old AFDC [Aid to Families with Dependent Children] program sapped people of their initiative and eroded their self-respect. Any strategy to reduce intergenerational poverty has to be centered on work, not welfare.”
Clinton for her part, tried to capitalize on the following revelation, so as to show voters just how ordinary a politician Obama was:
Pressed by an interviewer on the BBC’s “Hardtalk” program, Power said: "You can't make a commitment in March 2008 about what circumstances will be like in January of 2009," adding that the Obama plan was a "best-case scenario" that he "will revisit when he becomes president." - Los Angelos times; March 8, 2008.
On China, he says:
“The Chinese are everywhere throughout Africa. They are building roads . . . bridges . . . government buildings . . . hospitals.”
“We’re not doing that because we don’t think it is important and, over time, that’s going to have an enormous impact on us,”
---
Essentially, what I get from these quotes, is that Mr. Obama isn't really the 'anti-war' candidate that he publically promotes himself to be; he is essentially complaining about the failed policies—not the idea of waging war against the Iraqis on dubious premises—which have resulted in the bogging down of the U.S. military in Iraq and hence, tying down the "overstretched" military in the event that the U.S. wants to wage imperialistic wars elsewhere to protect its "national interests".
Don't know about you, but the above seems pretty much like the same "old politics" of Washington to ensure that US hegemony maintained, and henceforth, use of military threat to ensure unchallenged control over the world's natural resources deemed important to the "national interests" of American ruling elite and financial oligarchy; but hey, since Obama's campaign doesn't represent the "status quo", what-box will demonstrate to us how these citations of Obama represent radical change in Washington politics.
To put it in his own terms, with regards to the so-called “phased redeployment”:
“protecting our interests in the region, and bringing this war to a responsible end.”
"[if]the Iraqis are successful in meeting the thirteen benchmarks for progress laid out by the Bush Administration,” then, “this plan also allows for the temporary suspension of the redeployment”
And on Fox News,...
Fox’s Chris Wallace: “Senator, this week President Bush named David Petraeus, the commander of US forces in Iraq, to be the head of Central Command.... Will you vote to confirm his nomination?”
Obama: “Yes. I think Petraeus has done a good tactical job in Iraq. I think as a practical matter, obviously, that’s where most of the attention has been devoted from this administration over the last several years.”
“My hope is that Petraeus would reflect that wider view of our strategic interests.”
— Remember the following, on Israel...
“Our starting point must always be a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel, our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy. That commitment is all the more important as we contend with growing threats in the region—a strengthened Iran, a chaotic Iraq, the resurgence of Al Qaeda, the reinvigoration of Hamas and Hezbollah. Now more than ever, we must strive to secure a lasting settlement of the conflict with two states living side by side in peace and security. To do so, we must help the Israelis identify and strengthen those partners who are truly committed to peace, while isolating those who seek conflict and instability.”
Now read, from Middle East Times, dated to Feb 01, 2008:
"...staunch support of Israel came as a surprise to one of Obama's old supporters, Ali Abunimah, who runs the pro-Palestine Electronic Intifada Web site.
"Over the years since I first saw Obama speak I met him about half a dozen times, often at Palestinian and Arab-American community events in Chicago, including a May 1998 community fundraiser at which Edward Said was the keynote speaker," Abunimah recalled.
"In 2000, when Obama unsuccessfully ran for Congress I heard him speak at a campaign fundraiser hosted by a University of Chicago professor. On that occasion and others Obama was forthright in his criticism of U.S. policy and his call for an even-handed approach to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
"The last time I spoke to Obama was in the winter of 2004 at a gathering in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood. He was in the midst of a primary campaign to secure the Democratic nomination for the United States Senate seat he now occupies. But at that time polls showed him trailing. As he came in from the cold and took off his coat, I went up to greet him. He responded warmly, and volunteered, 'Hey, I'm sorry I haven't said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I'm hoping when things calm down I can be more up front.'"
...which is consistent with the following, from Los Angelos Times, April 10, 2008:
the warm embrace Obama gave to Khalidi, and words like those at the professor's going-away party, have left some Palestinian American leaders believing that Obama is more receptive to their viewpoint than he is willing to say.
Their belief is not drawn from Obama's speeches or campaign literature, but from comments that some say Obama made in private and from his association with the Palestinian American community in his hometown of Chicago, including his presence at events where anger at Israeli and U.S. Middle East policy was freely expressed.
At Khalidi's 2003 farewell party, for example, a young Palestinian American recited a poem accusing the Israeli government of terrorism in its treatment of Palestinians and sharply criticizing U.S. support of Israel. If Palestinians cannot secure their own land, she said, "then you will never see a day of peace."
One speaker likened "Zionist settlers on the West Bank" to Osama bin Laden, saying both had been "blinded by ideology."
Obama adopted a different tone in his comments and called for finding common ground. But his presence at such events, as he worked to build a political base in Chicago, has led some Palestinian leaders to believe that he might deal differently with the Middle East than either of his opponents for the White House.
"I am confident that Barack Obama is more sympathetic to the position of ending the occupation than either of the other candidates," said Hussein Ibish, a senior fellow for the American Task Force on Palestine, referring to the Israeli presence in the West Bank and Gaza Strip that began after the 1967 war. More than his rivals for the White House, Ibish said, Obama sees a "moral imperative" in resolving the conflict and is most likely to apply pressure to both sides to make concessions.
"That's my personal opinion," Ibish said, "and I think it for a very large number of circumstantial reasons, and what he's said."
Aides say that Obama's friendships with Palestinian Americans reflect only his ability to interact with a wide diversity of people, and that his views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have been consistent. Obama has called himself a "stalwart" supporter of the Jewish state and its security needs. He believes in an eventual two-state solution in which Jewish and Palestinian nations exist in peace, which is consistent with current U.S. policy.
Obama also calls for the U.S. to talk to such declared enemies as Iran, Syria and Cuba. But he argues that the Palestinian militant organization Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip, is an exception, calling it a terrorist group that should renounce violence and recognize Israel's right to exist before dialogue begins. That viewpoint, which also matches current U.S. policy, clashes with that of many Palestinian advocates who urge the United States and Israel to treat Hamas as a partner in negotiations...
In interviews with The Times, Khalidi declined to discuss specifics of private talks over the years with Obama. He did not begrudge his friend for being out of touch, or for focusing more these days on his support for Israel -- a stance that Khalidi calls a requirement to win a national election in the U.S., just as wooing Chicago's large Arab American community was important for winning local elections.
Khalidi added that he strongly disagrees with Obama's current views on Israel, and often disagreed with him during their talks over the years. But he added that Obama, because of his unusual background, with family ties to Kenya and Indonesia, would be more understanding of the Palestinian experience than typical American politicians.
"He has family literally all over the world," Khalidi said. "I feel a kindred spirit from that."
Demonstrate to us, what-box, how this represents "change" in Washington style politics and radical social change.
— Just go through Obama's response to the sound bytes of his pastor the first time around there was media barrage on the issue, about never having heard those messages in the 20 years or so that he's had associations with the pastor, and attending the church. "A new kind of politics", and "change", eh what-box?
Last Monday, Rev. Wright had repeated just about everything we had heard in the sound bytes that prompted Obama to make that so-called "race-relations" speech, but it is only now that he decides to throw the man under the bus?! The only difference now, is that Mr. Wright correctly pointed out that Obama's just another politician, hence not really an agent of true change.
— Go ahead and produce a list of Obama's track record in the Senate and notable accomplishments in U.S. politics, and demonstrate how these represent radical "change" to the status quo.
— As a matter of fact, *besides health care* and the issue of applying "carrot-and-stick diplomacy" with countries like Iran and Cuba, can you list **significant** differences between Hillary Clinton's overall political philosophy and that of Barack Obama's. If not, then why pick Obama, as opposed to Clinton; and does this mean, that Clinton too is agent of radical "change" of U.S. politics?
Attend to these requests, and then we can deal with other details of "change" that you intend to demonstrate about Obama's candidacy.
It's always a good idea to make sure you do adequate research before you take on the politically-affluent folks!
Posted by Arwa (Member # 11172) on :
Ausarian ,
Thank you, thank you!
You are a true treasure on this topic, and it is nice to have you here.
To others, sorry I left the discussion, I had some work to do.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
true to the tradition
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I do believe he would be a great president though.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
) an out of context comment and analogy and especially don't call the "Rome" part racist when white Americans weren't even being attacked, America's system was.![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
but looks
Besides that, (and I 
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