posted
Correct me if I'm worng but are there not studies out that prove that these groups (Ethiopians) are spilt nearly 50/50 with Eurasians? With this study proving this why do you all still argue that these people are pure Africans, Do you all have any evidence to the contrary. Please don't bash me just answer the question and no I could not find a satisfying answer when I was searching the archives. At least not one in you all's case!
So are they pure unmixed Africans and can you prove this with pure evidence on your part.
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quote:Correct me if I'm worng but are there not studies out that prove that these groups (Ethiopians) are spilt nearly 50/50 with Eurasians
You are wrong, and stand corrected.
The good news for you however is that there are studies showing that Europeans are a mixture of Africans, Asians and indigenenes, such that they show as genetically intermediate between Africa and Asia:
Europeans show as a mixture of 1/3 African, and 2/3 Asian - European Geneticists, Cavelli Sforza.
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Chimu (white nord) is back. He is pointing to the Cavelli Sforza's "Ethiopian cluster" study but I recall reading past posts where Ausarianstein posted Keita's critique of it. Selective sampling can produce what the samplers want. Amazing since Ausarianstein himself is now prepared to accept similar genetic studies of "Levantine Jewry". But this seems to be a pattern on his side. Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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Ah, white Nord is back, and with another silly topic (click tha first link )
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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White Nord
A banned big lipped primate
Member # 14093
posted
"Tishkoff et al. (1996) Ethiopian populations experienced later periods of admixture which have played a major role in shaping the gene pool of Ethiopia, and its populations display both Eurasian and Sub-Saharan genetic influences."
"On the basis of historical, linguistic, and genetic data, it has been suggested that the Ethiopian population has been strongly affected by Caucasoid migrations since Neolithic times. On the basis of autosomal polymorphic loci, it has been estimated that 60% of the Ethiopian gene pool has an African origin, whereas ~40% is of Caucasoid derivation.... Our Ethiopian sample also lacks the sY81-G allele, which was associated with 86% and 69% of Senegalese and mixed-African YAP+ chromosomes, respectively. This suggests that male-mediated gene flow from Niger-Congo speakers to the Ethiopian population was probably very limited ... Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."
(Passarino et al. 1998)
"The present composition of the Ethiopian population is the result of a complex and extensive intermixing of different peoples of North African, Near and Middle Eastern, and south-Saharan origin. The two main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara, descended from Arabian conquerors, and the Oromo, the most important group among the Cushitic people. ... The genetic distance analysis showed the separation between African and non-African populations, with the Amhara and Oromo located in an intermediate position." (De Stefano et al. 2002)
"The occurrence of E*5 212 and E*5 204 alleles in two populations of the Mediterranean basin (Turkey and Italy) but not in West Africans can be explained by taking into account that the Ethiopian gene pool was estimated to be >40% of Caucasoid derivation (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). In addition, more recent phylogenetic analysis based on classical protein polymorphism (Tartaglia et al. 1996) and Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin."
(Scacchi et al. 2003)
These are the studies I'm talking about , How can they just be explained away Posts: 219 | Registered: Aug 2007
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Caucasoid,eh? And how much none-"caucasoid" influence do south-arabia, Balkan-Europe and Levant posses from the opposite direction? The pimp-juice have gone both ways you know. No single highway as you would wish, i'm sorry..
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Btw you're a "white nord" why do you even care? Your not from Balkan, Levant or southern Arabia. Shouldn't you be more concerned with the relationship your ancestors had with Siberians or Samer before engaging into a discussion of Horn Africans genetic makeup?
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White Nord
A banned big lipped primate
Member # 14093
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Btw you're a "white nord" why do you even care? Your not from Balkan, Levant or southern Arabia. Shouldn't you be more concerned with the relationship your ancestors had with Siberians or Samer before engaging into a discussion of Horn Africans genetic makeup?
Rather than questioning my motives why not just answer the question, If that's at all possible.
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Just regurgitation of discredited nonsense that has been dealt with ad nauseam.
For one, "caucasoid" is scientifically bankrupt. What makes a gene "caucasoid", and what are they?
Passarino et a. 1998 pooled Ethiopian groups from a sample taken at a hospital in Addis Ababa, which were mainly self-identified Amhara-speakers. This pooling obscured genomic pattern differentiations across intra-Ethiopic ethnic-lines.
Amhara groups seem to carry relatively more J haplotype bearing Y chromosomes than their Oromo counterparts, but even these appear to date back to some time in the Neolithic period.
Ethiopia is a big country, with at least some 80 different ethnic groups. In fact, it is one of the most diverse nations on mainland Africa. The bulk of these were not tested by Passarino; so, how you can reduce their gene pool to Passarino et al.'s findings, is beyond logic.
Ethiopia has been found to be 'intermediate', primarily because non-African gene pools are a subset of an East African population, and to a lesser extent, secondary to *bi-directional* gene flow between the African Horn and its neighbours. In other words, it is a region genetically composite of deep-rooted lineages that are rare outside of the African continent and more downstream mutations that are common in both Africa and elsewhere - hence, the intermediate location.
Certain maternal haplogroups that are common in "south west Asia" occurred as rare subtypes in Ethiopian samples, like those associated with haplogroup N1 and M1. Some haplogroups like say, M1, have in the past been erroneously referenced as "Eurasian" by some authors, when there is little to no evidence to suggest so.
Posts: 233 | Registered: Apr 2007
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Ah, white Nord is back, and with another silly topic (click tha first link )
It was nothing but crap presented on that thread once again.
First and for most the yth spreading around this forum that M1 is African in origin needs to be dispelled
Gonzalez et al (2007) found that...
quote:The coalescence age of the African haplogroup M1 is younger than those for other M Asiatic clades. In contradiction to the hypothesis of an eastern Africa origin for modern human expansions out of Africa, the most ancestral M1 lineages have been found in Northwest Africa and in the Near East, instead of in East Africa.
quote:This study provides evidence that M1, or its ancestor, had an Asiatic origin. The earliest M1 expansion into Africa occurred in northwestern instead of eastern areas; this early spread reached the Iberian Peninsula even affecting the Basques.
Mitochondrial lineage M1 traces an early human backflow to Africa. BMC Genomics 2007 9, 8
Krings et al 1999 in a study of gene flow analysis along the Nile valley found;
As for the East Africans a study touted around this forum alot is the Gurna population study which also proves that the population is not homogenous as you people claim.
quote:The Gurna sample presents an Fst () range from 0 (with Upper Egypt) to 0.10867 (with Berber) (except with the outgroup Fst of 0.56) (Appendix IIa). These relatively low values place Gurna as being as similar to Near Eastern populations as to Sudanese and sub-Saharan populations.
On the other hand, the Dinka and Kenyan populations were clearly different from Near Eastern populations (Palestinian, Syrian, Bedouin, Druze and Turkish) with Fst values ranging from 0.13 to 0.23 (Appendix IIa). The Dinka and Kenyan populations show differences with the Berber population too (Fst = 0.19 and 0.17 respectively).
Studies on Egpytians.
Hamdy et al 2003. Genotype and allele frequencies of TPMT, NAT2, GST, SULT1A1 and MDR-1 in the Egyptian population. British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology 55
quote:The Gurna area could be the meeting point of two independent waves of migration from the Near East and from sub-Saharan Africa, as suggested by the central position of the Gurna population in the unrooted NJ tree and the genetic and the nucleotidic diversity of the analysed populations. The presence in the Gurna gene pool of haplogroups found in Near Eastern populations but absent in sub-Saharan ones (like U4), and haplogroups found in sub-Saharan populations but only sporadically present in Near Eastern ones (like L1), reinforces this observation.
quote:In conclusion, the present study showed that the Egyptians have a relatively low frequency of TPMT mutant alleles. Only six out of 200 Egyptian individuals (3.00%) carried a variant TPMT allele (TPMT*3A or TPMT*3C).
posted
^ white nord dishing out bogus genetic studies as ausarianburg does with those on ashkenazi. lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
What Wanking Nord's need to do is stop wanking over Africans, and defend the turf they're loosing elsewhere.
(..looks like I've started a bit of trouble ... and no, I don't have anything to do with that thread, but another ... lol medit. girl is Italian/Greek/English btw)
quote:The coalescence age of the African haplogroup M1 is younger than those for other M Asiatic clades. In contradiction to the hypothesis of an eastern Africa origin for modern human expansions out of Africa, the most ancestral M1 lineages have been found in Northwest Africa and in the Near East, instead of in East Africa.
quote:This study provides evidence that M1, or its ancestor, had an Asiatic origin. The earliest M1 expansion into Africa occurred in northwestern instead of eastern areas; this early spread reached the Iberian Peninsula even affecting the Basques.
Mitochondrial lineage M1 traces an early human backflow to Africa.
The above bolded is completely un-substantiated, even according to your own study.
Krings et al 1999 in a study of gene flow analysis along the Nile valley found;
As for the East Africans a study touted around this forum alot is the Gurna population study which also proves that the population is not homogenous as you people claim.
Who has claimed this?
quote:The Gurna sample presents an Fst () range from 0 (with Upper Egypt) to 0.10867 (with Berber) (except with the outgroup Fst of 0.56) (Appendix IIa). These relatively low values place Gurna as being as similar to Near Eastern populations as to Sudanese and sub-Saharan populations.
On the other hand, the Dinka and Kenyan populations were clearly different from Near Eastern populations (Palestinian, Syrian, Bedouin, Druze and Turkish) with Fst values ranging from 0.13 to 0.23 (Appendix IIa). The Dinka and Kenyan populations show differences with the Berber population too (Fst = 0.19 and 0.17 respectively).
And?
quote:Studies on Egpytians.
Hamdy et al 2003. Genotype and allele frequencies of TPMT, NAT2, GST, SULT1A1 and MDR-1 in the Egyptian population. British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology 55
quote:The Gurna area could be the meeting point of two independent waves of migration from the Near East and from sub-Saharan Africa, as suggested by the central position of the Gurna population in the unrooted NJ tree and the genetic and the nucleotidic diversity of the analysed populations. The presence in the Gurna gene pool of haplogroups found in Near Eastern populations but absent in sub-Saharan ones (like U4), and haplogroups found in sub-Saharan populations but only sporadically present in Near Eastern ones (like L1), reinforces this observation.
quote:In conclusion, the present study showed that the Egyptians have a relatively low frequency of TPMT mutant alleles. Only six out of 200 Egyptian individuals (3.00%) carried a variant TPMT allele (TPMT*3A or TPMT*3C).
Is this what 'white nord' ideology has been reduced to?
Modern anthropology have now forced 'white nords' to obsess over things that were the result of 'negros' and even 'sand-negroes'?
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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Don't mean to derail the topic but. Earlier in another thread you posted that Jesus was not the only begotten son of God. You got it from the "Horses Mouth" as you said. Could you please elaborate for me. When you said this this stuck in my mind and just wanted to know how true your facts are. So if you could please answer the question.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: Alive can you give some data that definitively says that M1 is African?
Why?
It has been stated ad-nauseum that we haven't yet found out where the M haplogroup was derived, let alone East African M1.
The provided studies that people have apparently failed to read (even people who used them in a citation) state that no ancestral M1 has been found.
"Although two mtDNA lineages with an African origin (haplogroups M and N) were the progenitors of all non-African haplogroups, macrohaplogroup L (including haplogroups L0-L6) is limited to sub-Saharan Africa." - Tishkoff and Kivisild 2006
posted
Ana M. Gonzalez et al. published a paper on M1 expansions, 9 July 2007, and a few things about it immediately jumped at me; I lay these out shortly following the abstract below, which is there to put potential viewers of this page on "the same page" so to speak, as far as the synopsis of the paper is concerned:
Abstract:
Mitochondrial lineage M1 traces an early human backflow to Africa
Ana M Gonzalez , Jose M Larruga , Khaled K Abu-Amero , Yufei Shi , Jose Pestano and Vicente M Cabrera
The complete article is available as a provisional PDF. The fully formatted PDF and HTML versions are in production.
Background The out of Africa hypothesis has gained generalized consensus. However, many specific questions remain unsettled. To know whether the two M and N macrohaplogroups that colonized Eurasia were already present in Africa before the exit is puzzling. It has been proposed that the east African clade M1 supports a single origin of haplogroup M in Africa. To test the validity of that hypothesis, the phylogeographic analysis of 13 complete mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences and 261 partial sequences belonging to haplogroup M1 was carried out.
Results The coalescence age of the African haplogroup M1 is younger than those for other M Asiatic clades. In contradiction to the hypothesis of an eastern Africa origin for modern human expansions out of Africa, the most ancestral M1 lineages have been found in Northwest Africa and in the Near East, instead of in East Africa. The M1 geographic distribution and the relative ages of its different subclades clearly correlate with those of haplogroup U6, for which an Eurasian ancestor has been demonstrated.
Conclusions This study provides evidence that M1, or its ancestor, had an Asiatic origin. The earliest M1 expansion into Africa occurred in northwestern instead of eastern areas; this early spread reached the Iberian Peninsula even affecting the Basques. The majority of the M1a lineages found outside and inside Africa had a more recent eastern Africa origin. Both western and eastern M1 lineages participated in the Neolithic colonization of the Sahara. The striking parallelism between subclade ages and geographic distribution of M1 and its North African U6 counterpart strongly reinforces this scenario. Finally, a relevant fraction of M1a lineages present today in the European Continent and nearby islands possibly had a Jewish instead of the commonly proposed Arab/Berber maternal ascendance.
-Abstract ends-
MY Response To Ana M. Gonzalez et al.
*First, a quick synopsis of the samplings, with regards to where the n=261 M1 bearing samples come from, aside from the 588 participants mentioned in one of the tables [table 2] in the study:
From my assessment of the table, it comes from the following numbers:
A total of 50 Europeans detected for M1. A total of 154 for Africans. A total of 28 Asians, barring 8 unknown Arabian haplotypes. And a total of 29 Jews, who were lumped together from the various continents. The sum of the above totals, amount to 261 "known" M1 lineages.
*With regards to the authors claim about M1 or its ancestor, having had an Asiatic origin, the following comes to mind:
The authors of the study at hand, themselves admit that they haven't come across M1 ancestor in either south Asia or southwest Asia. They also take note of its highest diversity in Ethiopia and east Africa. Yet through the shaky premise of their M1c expansion time frame estimations, they build a conclusion around it, by tying it to a dispersal(s) "parallel" to that of U6 - another African marker whose immediate common recent ancestor, namely proto-U6, appears to be elusive thus far.
Well, they wouldnt be the only ones who have failed to come across any proto-M1 ancestor in southwest and south Asia [Indian Subcontinent mainly]:
Based on the high frequency and diversity of haplogroup M in India and elsewhere in Asia, some authors have suggested (versus [3]) that M may have arisen in Southwest Asia [16,17,31]. Finding M1 or a lineage ancestral to M1 in India, could help to explain the presence of M1 in Africa as a result of a back migration from India. Yet, to date this has not been achieved [15], this study). Therefore, one cannot rule out the still most parsimonious scenario that haplogroup M arose in East Africa [3]. Furthermore, the lack of L3 lineages other than M and N (indeed, L3M and L3N) in India is more consistent with the African launch of haplogroup M. On the other hand, one also observes that: i) M1 is the only variant of haplogroup M found in Africa; ii) M1 has a fairly restricted phylogeography in Africa, barely penetrating into sub-Saharan populations, being found predominantly in association with the Afro-Asiatic linguistic phylum a finding that appears to be inconsistent with the distribution of sub-clades of haplogroups L3 and L2 that have similar time depths. Mait Metspalu et al.
So, while they acknowledge the highest "frequencies and diversities" of M1 particularly in Ethiopia, and generally in East Africa., the authors base their claims about origins on their expansion estimations of M1c derivatives, presumably predominant in northwest Africa rather than east Africa, and its relative sporadic distribution in 'Europe' and 'Southwest' Asia. They attempt to buttress this, by invoking an initial parallel expansion of M1 and U6 "ancestor" lineages into north Africa via the Nile Valley [from "southwest Asia"], then an expansion from northwest Africa this time around, of U6 and M1 derivatives northward into Europe and then eastward into "southwest" Asia via the Nile Valley corridor in the Sinai peninsula, presumably with a few derivatives making their way into sub-Saharan east Africa, where they then underwent some expansion, to give rise to yet another, but later, dispersal from there into "southwest Asia" and hence, accounting for the 'majority' of M1 lineages in "southwest Asia" being east African derivatives than the north African [M1c] counterparts.
*Furthermore,
The authors gather that their observations correlate with that of other researchers, namely Olivieri et al. To this extent, they put forth that Olivieri et al.s M1b corresponds to their M1c, the formers M1a2 corresponds to their M1b, and the formers M1a1 corresponds to their M1a. They go onto to add that the coalescence ages arrived by the two research group [that of Olivieri et al. and that of the present authors] also correlate. The present authors note that their coalescence time for M1c (25.7 +/- 6.6 ky) overlaps with Olivieri et al.s coalescence time for M1b (23.4 +/- 5.6). Similarly, they note that their coalescence age for M1a (22.6 +/- 8.1ky) falls within that of Olivieri et al.s age for M1a1 at 20.6 +/- 3.4ky. However, this makes way for great discrepancy between the said authors and Olivieri et al., whereby their coalescence age for M1b at 13.7 +/- 4.8ky falls quite short of the latters age for M1a2 at 24 +/- 5.7ky. Not only are the subgroup nomenclatures distinct, but this latter discrepancy makes an unsubtle difference, so as to no longer render M1c to be older than M1b, but rather, either place M1c at an age a bit younger or on par with the latter, which should be otherwise according to the present study. Though, by their own admission, the present authors favor Olivieri et al.s methods over their own:
As our calculations are based only on three lineages and that of Olivieri et al on six, we think that their coalescence time estimation should be more accurate than ours. In fact, when time estimation is based on the eight different lineages (AFR-K143 is common to both sets) a coalescence age of 20.6 +/- ky is obtained.
*But if there is any indication about the tenuous nature of the above thesis, without going into other known details about M1, it would be this alternative viewpoint they came up with:
The alternative idea entertained by the authors, is one where M1 could actually be an autochthonous northwest African lineage, which spread northward into Europe and eastward to "Southwest Asia" and east Africa. Again, to be followed by a yet later dispersal from east Africa, likely sub-Saharan east Africa, particularly the Ethiopian populations.
*The limitations inherent in solely relying on hypervariable segment motifs:
The status quo hasn't changed, not withstanding the hype about the supposed older expansion timeframes from M1c derivatives, predominant in Northwest Africa, according to their study. The authors rely heavily on the hypervariable region of the mtDNA, which even they themselves don't seem to put much faith on, as demonstrated by their noting of the need to proceed cautiously, given that random parallel mutations are known to occur across distinct macro-haplogroups and sub-clades. They also note how hypervariable nature of the control region, can lead to misleading calculations from erratic mutations, as demonstrated by the M1a2 they put forth, leading them to omit them in their lineage coalescence analysis.
*Another thing that hasn't been relayed through this study, is this:
The coding regions transitions are likely to change relatively slower than those of hypervariable segments, and hence, likely to remain intact within a clade. To assist in determining which clade to place a monophyletic unit, key coding region transitions have to be identified. In the case of M1, we were told:
We found 489C (Table 3) in all Indian and eastern-African haplogroup M mtDNAs analysed, but not in the non-M haplogroup controls, including 20 Africans representing all African main lineages (6 L1, 4 L2, 10 L3) and 11 Asians.
These findings, and the lack of positive evidence (given the RFLP status) that the 10400 C->T transition defining M has happened more than once, suggest that it has a single common origin, but do not resolve its geographic origin. Analysis of position 10873 (the MnlI RFLP) revealed that all the M molecules (eastern African, Asian and those sporadically found in our population surveys) were 10873C (Table 3). As for the non-M mtDNAs, the ancient L1 and the L2 African-specific lineages5, as well as most L3 African mtDNAs, also carry 10873C.
Conversely, all non-M mtDNAs of non-African origin analysed so far carry 10873T. These data indicate that the **transition 10400 C-->T, which defines haplogroup M**, arose on an African background characterized by the ancestral state 10873C, which is also present in four primate (common and pygmy chimps, gorilla and orangutan) mtDNA sequences. Semino et al.
...which is significant, as other M lineages are devoid of M1 coding region motifs, not to mention the M1 HVS-I package. The above does demonstrate, how M lineages likely arose on an African 'background' by single-event substitutions in the designated African ancestral counterparts. The ancestral transition of 10873C is substituted by 10873T in non-African non-M haplogroups, while the 10400C transition was substituted in M lineages by 10400T.
Furthermore,...
The 489C transition, as noted above and can be seen from the diagram, is peculiar to the M macrohaplogroup, again suggestive of unique event mutations characterizing the family:
The phylogenetic location of the mutations at nt 489 and 10,873 (arrow) was predicted by our analysis. The seemingly shared mutation at nt 16,129 (by G, Z and M1) is very likely an accidental parallelism. The ancestral states 10400C, 10810C and 10873C are fixed in L1 (as analysed so far) and are present in the ape sequences.
The 16129 sharing across the M1 haplogroups, seems to be one of those instances of random parallel mutation, recalling Chang Sun et al.'s observations of random parallel mutations of certain transitions across the M macrohaplogroup.
We also know that "southwest Asian" and "European" M1 lineages are derivatives of African counterparts, and the same is true for southwest Asian non-M1 affiliated M lineages from south Asia:
Compared to India, haplogroup M frequency in Iran is marginally low (5.3%) and there are no distinguished Iranian-specific sub-clades of haplogroup M. All Iranian haplogroup M lineages can be seen as derived from other regional variants of the haplogroup: eleven show affiliation to haplogroup M lineages found in India, twelve in East and Central Asia (D, G, and M8 ) and one in northeast Africa (M1)
Indian-specific (R5 and Indian-specific M and U2 variants) and East Asian-specific (A, B and East Asian-specific M subgroups) mtDNAs, both, make up less than 4% of the Iranian mtDNA pool. We used Turkey (88.8 ± 4.0%) as the third parental population for evaluating the relative proportions of admixture from India (2.2 ± 1.7%) and China (9.1 ± 4.1%) into Iran. Therefore we can conclude that historic gene flow from India to Iran has been very limited.
With that said, Semino et al.'s older study still remains strong, the way I see it:
haplogroup M originated in eastern Africa approximately 60,000 years ago and was carried toward Asia. This agrees with the proposed date of an out-of-Africa expansion approximately 65,000 years ago10. After its arrival in Asia, the haplogroup M founder group went through a demographic and geographic expansion. The remaining M haplogroup in eastern Africa did not spread, but remained localized up to approximately 10,000-20,000 years ago, after which it started to expand. Semino et al.
Elsewhere, I've also talked about some 'basal' M-like lineages in Africa; for instance, at least one of such was identified in the Senegalese sample.
Am. J. Hum. Genet., 66:1362-1383, 2000
mtDNA Variation in the South African Kung and Khwe and Their Genetic Relationships to Other African Populations
"The Asian mtDNA phylogeny is subdivided into two macrohaplogroups, one of which is M. M is delineated by a DdeI site at np 10394 and an AluI site of np 10397. The only African mtDNA found to have both of these sites is the Senegalese haplotype AF24. This haplotype branches off African subhaplogroup L3a (figs.2 and3), suggesting that haplogroup M mtDNAs might have been derived from this African mtDNA lineage..."
The relevant representation in this recap diagram:
^The 10397 transition is shown in the L3-M linkage, while 10394, which should show up as positive [as exemplified in the above extract] in the M macrohaplogroup, shows up negative in the linkage between L3 and non-M affiliated lineages.
**^To put the above compilation into perspective, and keep it simple, the point is this:
Semino et al.'s demonstration of certain characteristic basic coding transitions of the M super-haplogroup [not including the key coding region motifs unique to the M1 family], springing directly from African ancestral motifs, don't require that M1 has to have a proto "non-African" M1, whereas an Asian origin of M1 would necessitate an Asian proto-M1 lineage that would explain the relatively young expansion ages of M1 and lack of descendancy from pre-existing Asian M lineages. This hasn't been achieved either by the present study or ones prior to it.
Getting to the gist:
Basal M mtDNA ~ between c. 60 - 80 ky ago
And then, M1 ~ between ~ c. 10 - 30 ky ago
The studies I posted, suggest that the basal motifs characteristic of the M macrohaplogroup arose in Africa, anywhere between 60 - 80 ky ago [since they would have likely been in the continent by the time of the 60 ky ago or so OOA migrations] . Sometime between 60 ky and 50 ky ago [some sources place it between 75 - 60 ky ago], these L3 offshoots were carried outside of Africa, amongst early successful a.m.h migrations, which resulted in the populations now living in the Indian-subcontinent, Melanesia and Australia who have these lineages. Not all the basal African L3M lineages, as Semino et al. convincingly put it, left the continent, as indicated by the basal L3a-M motif detected in Senegal, M1 diversity in Africa, particularly East Africa, both M1 and other M lineages detected in Ugandan samples, and lack of descendancy of M1 from older-coalescent Asian macrohaplogroup. Rather, it appears that the basal L3M lineages which remained in Africa, underwent a relatively limited demographic intra-African expansion until relatively recently, i.e. between 10 - 30 ky ago, compared to the Asian L3M derivatives, which underwent major expansions, naturally within the quantitatively smaller founder immigrant groups, i.e. the founder effect.
M1 is likely the culmination of relatively more recent demographic expansions of basal L3M lineages in the African continent, with M1 derivative being a successful candidate, in what could have possibly involved other derivatives which might not have expanded to the same level intra-continentally, and subsequently, extra-continentally as well.
M1 has strongly been correlated with the upper Paleolithic expansion of proto-Afrasan groups across the Sahara to coastal north Africa, and further eastward via the Sinai peninsula.
posted
Wow!!! Ausarianburg didn't take this same critical analysis re the Hammer et al study! LMAO You Talmudic apologist!Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
^ Thats funny because you are over 200, and honestly, apart from showing your panties, defending your boyfriend rasolowitz and complaining about getting your as kicked on a James Watson site (how dumb is that!) I can't see what you have substantially contributed.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: ^ Thats funny because you are over 200, and honestly, apart from showing your panties, defending your boyfriend rasolowitz and complaining about getting your as kicked on a James Watson site (how dumb is that!) I can't see what you have substantially contributed.
^ The difference is troll, that it took me *2* years to get over 200. You just registered like a less than a month ago lol.
Go away.
Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
You know ... six more months from the end of this one, he will have aquired the number of posts I have now (a number I took over two years to aquire) if he keeps up this pace.
To be fair, Mmmkay, (<- lol I sound like Mr. Mackey), I have had times where I stopped posting completely, and you definitely have.
I think lately what many have been trying to do is revive the forum. I had started to try, but it's starting to seem more and more impossible.
Just checked out TNV, they do have some good stuff going on there.
And just for clarity akoben, Mmmkay purports to be a guy, his posted picture:
posted
Just because Supercar's anti-hitler and your not, doesn't make him Jewish, "a-dolphhitler-koben".
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Just because Supercar's anti-hitler and your not, doesn't make him Jewish, "a-dolphhitler-koben".
It makes him anti-black. Blames us for our underdevelopment, names himself after a retard teacher from a Jewish propaganda cartoon known for anti-black stereotyping and fascination with human excrement. Why should I not see him as the sick little pro-Jewish troll he is?
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
That Supercar's anti-black and pro Jewish is the funniest thing you've ever said, troll.
He acknowledges what's what, that's what.
Yes, colonialism and it's neo are to blame, but also to blame is the fact that African leaders didn't base their infrastructure where they should have - in the fundamentals, the continent's strengths: farming and agriculture.
But if you will, continue in your un-cited and un-substantiated claims.
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): That Supercar's anti-black and pro Jewish is the funniest thing you've ever said, troll.
He acknowledges what's what, that's what.
Yes, colonialism and it's neo are to blame, but also to blame is the fact that African leaders didn't base their infrastructure where they should have - in the fundamentals, the continent's strengths: farming and agriculture.
But if you will, continue in your un-cited and un-substantiated claims.
^ Wow, you fired off your gun too fast. lol
No not supercar, the very attractive (leg and panty) Mmmmkay...I thought my post would have left no doubt who I was refering to.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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posted
^ tell you what, hows about giving me a lap dance in those pink panties of yours while the theme song for south park plays in the background..."friendly faces everywhere!!!" lol
you stupid negro
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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...my name is mmmkay and i love jewish propaganda cartoons with old black stereotypes. i think africans whine too much, all they have to do is just start businesses and think positive thoughts and everything will be fine!
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ Excellent post.
Well we still need to wait and see from Geneticists where M originates from so don't get your hopes up yet. If people on this site are going to slaves to white scientist's studies there is no need to come to your OWN conclusion just to fit what you want to believe.
Don't mean to derail the topic but. Earlier in another thread you posted that Jesus was not the only begotten son of God. You got it from the "Horses Mouth" as you said. Could you please elaborate for me. When you said this this stuck in my mind and just wanted to know how true your facts are. So if you could please answer the question.
Peace
Sorry I got sidetracked by the resident idiot here.
You'll have to refresh my memory as to what you are talking about. I'm not sure what your referring to.
Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: ^ tell you what, hows about giving me a lap dance in those pink panties of yours while the theme song for south park plays in the background..."friendly faces everywhere!!!" lol
you stupid negro
While I odn't agree with everything M says, South Park's cool, bro, you need to chill out~
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: there is no need to come to your OWN conclusion just to fit what you want to believe.
Of course not.
So, there's no need to come to the conclusion that M1 originated anywhere outside of Africa.
quote:Originally posted by akoben08: ^ tell you what, hows about giving me a lap dance in those pink panties of yours while the theme song for south park plays in the background..."friendly faces everywhere!!!" lol
posted
Origin of Ethiopian genetic heterogeneity posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 | 5 comments | No trackbacks In agreement with previous research, a new study observes the intermediate position of Ethiopians between Sub-Saharan Africans (Negroids) and Western Eurasians (Caucasoids); genetic heterogeneity of Ethiopians is found to be the result of admixture:
However, the reduction in Tn diversity does suggest that a population bottleneck occurred in Ethiopia, associated with a major out of Africa expansion(s), which parallels the conclusion made by Tishkoff et al. (1996) from analysis of the CD4 locus. Certainly our data are not incompatible with the argument from Tishkoff et al. (1996) that an element of the contemporary Ethiopian population may be descendants of the ancestral population that spawned the migration out of Africa. We also argue, however, that in addition to this early bottleneck event, later periods of admixture have played a major role in shaping the gene pool of Ethiopia, and its populations display both Eurasian and Sub-Saharan genetic influences.
These results confirms what I have stated on several occasions in the past, about the three major elements in the East African population, e.g.,:
Thus, it appears that a large fraction of present-day East African mitochondrial ancestry is derived from different populations than the ones that spawned non-Africans. This element is probably responsible for the introduction of the Negroid type in the region, which now forms a major element in the population, together with the pre-Negroid East Africans and more recent Caucasoid arrivals from across the Red Sea.
Annals of Human Genetics (OnlineEarly)
Ethiopia: between Sub-Saharan Africa and Western Eurasia
A. Lovell et al.
Summary
Ethiopia is central to population genetic studies investigating the out of Africa expansion of modern humans, as shown by Y chromosome and mtDNA studies. To address the level of genetic differentiation within Ethiopia, and its relationship to Sub-Saharan Africa and Eurasia, we studied an 8kb segment of the X-chromosome from 72 chromosomes from the Amhara, Oromo and Ethiopian Jews, and compared these results with 804 chromosomes from Middle Eastern, African, Asian and European populations, and 22 newly typed Saharawi. Within Ethiopia the two largest ethnic groups, the Amhara and Oromo, were not found to be statistically distinct, based on an exact test of haplotype frequencies. The Ethiopian Jews appear as an admixed population, possibly of Jewish origin, though the data remain equivocal. There is evidence of a close relationship between Ethiopian and Yemenite Jews, likely a result of indirect gene flow. Within an African and Eurasian context, the distribution of alleles of a variable Tn repeat, and the spread of haplotypes containing Africa-specific alleles, provide evidence of a genetic continuity from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Near East, and furthermore suggest that a bottleneck occurred in Ethiopia associated with an out of Africa expansion. Ethiopian genetic heterogeneity, as evidenced by principal component analysis of haplotype frequencies, most likely resulted from periods of subsequent admixture. While these results are from the analysis of one locus, we feel that in association with data from other marker systems they add a complementary perspective on the history of Ethiopia
Dipartimento di Genetica e Microbiologia, "A. Buzzati Traverso," Universita di Pavia, Pavia, Italy.
Seventy-seven Ethiopians were investigated for mtDNA and Y chromosome-specific variations, in order to (1) define the different maternal and paternal components of the Ethiopian gene pool, (2) infer the origins of these maternal and paternal lineages and estimate their relative contributions, and (3) obtain information about ancient populations living in Ethiopia. The mtDNA was studied for the RFLPs relative to the six classical enzymes (HpaI, BamHI, HaeII, MspI, AvaII, and HincII) that identify the African haplogroup L and the Caucasoid haplogroups I and T. The sample was also examined at restriction sites that define the other Caucasoid haplogroups (H, U, V, W, X, J, and K) and for the simultaneous presence of the DdeI10394 and AluI10397 sites, which defines the Asian haplogroup M. Four polymorphic systems were examined on the Y chromosome: the TaqI/12f2 and the 49a,f RFLPs, the Y Alu polymorphic element (DYS287), and the sY81-A/G (DYS271) polymorphism. For comparison, the last two Y polymorphisms were also examined in 87 Senegalese previously classified for the two TaqI RFLPs. Results from these markers led to the hypothesis that the Ethiopian population (1) experienced Caucasoid gene flow mainly through males, (2) contains African components ascribable to Bantu migrations and to an in situ differentiation process from an ancestral African gene pool, and (3) exhibits some Y-chromosome affinities with the Tsumkwe San (a very ancient African group). Our finding of a high (20%) frequency of the "Asian" DdeI10394AluI10397 (++) mtDNA haplotype in Ethiopia is discussed in terms of the "out of Africa" model.
quote: Certainly our data are not incompatible with the argument from Tishkoff et al. (1996) that an element of the contemporary Ethiopian population may be descendants of the ancestral population that spawned the migration out of Africa.
^ This is correct.
The rest is just trollbait noisemaking from Dienekes and other pseudos, which is why you're not creating the desired fanfare, white nerd.
Let us know when you manage to cough up and answer.....
quote: The good news for you however is that there are studies showing that Europeans are a mixture of Africans, Asians and indigenenes, such that they show as genetically intermediate between Africa and Asia:
Europeans show as a mixture of 1/3 African, and 2/3 Asian - European Geneticists, Cavelli Sforza.
quote: Certainly our data are not incompatible with the argument from Tishkoff et al. (1996) that an element of the contemporary Ethiopian population may be descendants of the ancestral population that spawned the migration out of Africa.
^ This is correct.
The rest is just trollbait noisemaking from Dienekes and other pseudos, which is why you're not creating the desired fanfare, white nerd.
Let us know when you manage to cough up and answer.....
quote: The good news for you however is that there are studies showing that Europeans are a mixture of Africans, Asians and indigenenes, such that they show as genetically intermediate between Africa and Asia:
Europeans show as a mixture of 1/3 African, and 2/3 Asian - European Geneticists, Cavelli Sforza.
Please stop showing that damn diagram I'm not talking about Europeans I'm talking about East Africans. Only one of those studies came from Dienekes. My God you people act like your scared of the truth that these peoples are indeed a mixture of black and White (or near Easterners). How many damn studies do I need to post to confirm this fact. One after another simply states that these people are a mixture stop lying to yourselfs and accept the studies for what they prove!
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^ His point is that both contemporary East Africans and Euros show admixture white nerd. Cavelli Sforza has already been exposed by Keita et al. These contemporary genetic studies say nothing for ancient east African especially Egyptian racial make up, which I know is where you want to take this argument. You are showing same desperation as Khazar pseudo scientists in trying to "prove" they are from Levantine Jewry, they managed to fool Ausarianstein though. lol But you are more pathetic, it's wide stretch, and so is your agenda.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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White Nord
A banned big lipped primate
Member # 14093
quote:Originally posted by akoben08: ^ His point is that both contemporary East Africans and Euros show admixture white nerd. Cavelli Sforza has already been exposed by Keita et al. These contemporary genetic studies say nothing for ancient east African especially Egyptian racial make up, which I know is where you want to take this argument. You are showing same desperation as Khazar pseudo scientists in trying to "prove" they are from Levantine Jewry, they managed to fool Ausarianstein though. lol But you are more pathetic, it's wide stretch, and so is your agenda.
How in the Hell can you be sure that they haven't always been mixed and thank you. Someone finally having the ballz to admit that this group has signifigant admixture.
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