If God forgives sinners if they are believers in him then how can he justify punishing non believers who have never sinned!!!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Here is my question again -
Where in the Bible does it say God punishes non-believers?
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: John 5: 24 look it up
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Here is my question again -
Where in the Bible does it say God punishes non-believers?
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: John 5: 24 look it up
You already have the answer above- John 5 above, and will be held to account for rejecting it on a day to come.
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If God forgives sinners if they are believers in him then how can he justify punishing non believers who have never sinned!!!
God forgives those who believe on the redemption accomplished by His son Christ Jesus. Redemption covers all past and future sins, as well as the responsible righteous who lived before Christ came. You are perfectly free to accept or reject this redemption. Just be aware of the consequences of your choice. If you reject this redemption, you will be held accountable, by the very same Christ, whom you reject now. And all responsible mankind has sinned- there is none perfect. Beleivers also sin. They do not come into final Judgement spoken of in Revelation, but must stand before the judgement seat of Christ to give account of their deeds. This is not a punitive judgment as in Revelation 20, but a sympathetic joint exploration of one's life- where they did right where they did wrong, where they improved. Rewards will be distributed according to one's works.(2 Corinthians 5: vs 10)
Believers never come into the awful final Judgment but they too must give account. They also do not escape consequences in life for their actions. a believer may drive drunk and kill someone. He will have to go to jail like everyone else and pay the price. He will not be exempt in this life. Angels will not descend from heaven to get him out of a prison cell. The price must be paid in the here and now, and he will have to give account for that incident on the other side.
But he does not come into everlasting judgment. That is reserved for those who reject the redemptive work of Christ. You will see God's power, if you reject his mercy at the present time, and you will have an eternity to contemplate the choice you made.
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Revelation: 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled, and place was not found for them. 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is that of life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books according to their works. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged each according to their works: 20:14 and death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 20:15 And if any one was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is your fate when you reject the current mercy of God. Laugh now, but once you pass beyond death's door, you will see His power. It will be a scrupulously fair judgment. All your thoughts and actions will be in the books- nothing hidden, and you will be judged, not in an arbitrary way, but according to your works. Remember, one of your works is that you rejected the salvation accomplished for all men through Christ.
Posts: 3 | From: usa | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: Jhn 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Here is my question again -
Where in the Bible does it say God punishes non-believers?
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: John 5: 24 look it up
You already have the answer above- John 5 above, and will be held to account for rejecting it on a day to come.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If God forgives sinners if they are believers in him then how can he justify punishing non believers who have never sinned!!!
God forgives those who believe on the redemption accomplished by His son Christ Jesus. Redemption covers all past and future sins, as well as the responsible righteous who lived before Christ came. You are perfectly free to accept or reject this redemption. Just be aware of the consequences of your choice. If you reject this redemption, you will be held accountable, by the very same Christ, whom you reject now. And all responsible mankind has sinned- there is none perfect. Beleivers also sin. They do not come into final Judgement spoken of in Revelation, but must stand before the judgement seat of Christ to give account of their deeds. This is not a punitive judgment as in Revelation 20, but a sympathetic joint exploration of one's life- where they did right where they did wrong, where they improved. Rewards will be distributed according to one's works.(2 Corinthians 5: vs 10)
Believers never come into the awful final Judgment but they too must give account. They also do not escape consequences in life for their actions. a believer may drive drunk and kill someone. He will have to go to jail like everyone else and pay the price. He will not be exempt in this life. Angels will not descend from heaven to get him out of a prison cell. The price must be paid in the here and now, and he will have to give account for that incident on the other side.
But he does not come into everlasting judgment. That is reserved for those who reject the redemptive work of Christ. You will see God's power, if you reject his mercy at the present time, and you will have an eternity to contemplate the choice you made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Revelation: 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled, and place was not found for them. 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is that of life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books according to their works. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged each according to their works: 20:14 and death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 20:15 And if any one was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is your fate when you reject the current mercy of God. Laugh now, but once you pass beyond death's door, you will see His power. It will be a scrupulously fair judgment. All your thoughts and actions will be in the books- nothing hidden, and you will be judged, not in an arbitrary way, but according to your works. Remember, one of your works is that you rejected the salvation accomplished for all men through Christ.
This is the whole point, the Fundamental foundation of Christianity is the Shedding of Jesus' blood as a sacrifical lamb, Thus an atonement for sins. This does not mean that we can do what ever we want, we must accept Christ as Savior and Son of God, and Door to the Father. To deny him his sacrifice means he will deny you to the Father and Angels despite his sacrifice for you. In order for Christ to be the Sacrifice he had to be the Son of God or the only Perfect Spirit that can trully be sacrificed. No ma, beast or angel on on Earth past or Present or Future is worthy to bear the burden Christ did. Christ has always done the will of the Father.
Thank you!!
Also with regards to unbelievers, the Most High is a Just Judge and will Judge accordingly. Some as crazy as it seems might have never heard of Christ, or even know the real Christ. The Father is a Just God. Christ was the Attonement for our sins to those who accept him and his dvinity and sacrifice.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
Well Christ says:
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Also in Rev.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So again it depends on what you consider unbelievers, someone who denies Christ or someone who has never heard of him..??
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Without Christ we would have no cover for our sins.
As Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin
So we see that Jesus is saying that people have to believe in Him and know that He is the mediator between us and God. Also Jari said right when he said that our rightousness is like filthy rags to God. We can never do enough Good to please God thats why we needed Jesus and what he did was suffer for ALL peoples sins, He died for the believers and the NonBelievers. His ressurrection showed that he Won the Battle over Death then in Matthew 28, he tells his followers to go out and teach and baptize in the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. So Jesus was more then a prophet.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by KING: Without Christ we would have no cover for our sins.
As Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin
So we see that Jesus is saying that people have to believe in Him and know that He is the mediator between us and God. Also Jari said right when he said that our rightousness is like filthy rags to God. We can never do enough Good to please God thats why we needed Jesus and what he did was suffer for ALL peoples sins, He died for the believers and the NonBelievers. His ressurrection showed that he Won the Battle over Death then in Matthew 28, he tells his followers to go out and teach and baptize in the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. So Jesus was more then a prophet.
Peace
100% correct King!! Thanks!!
Jesus was the Son of God, the sacrificial lamb, and the living word. He was beyond a prophet.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
Well Christ says:
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Also in Rev.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So again it depends on what you consider unbelievers, someone who denies Christ or someone who has never heard of him..??
What passage does this material from Revelation come from?
You have not answered the question. Billions of people have existed that had no knowledge of Christ before or after his birth. Are claiming that God will punish these people simply because they failed to know of Jesus.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by KING: Without Christ we would have no cover for our sins.
As Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin
So we see that Jesus is saying that people have to believe in Him and know that He is the mediator between us and God. Also Jari said right when he said that our rightousness is like filthy rags to God. We can never do enough Good to please God thats why we needed Jesus and what he did was suffer for ALL peoples sins, He died for the believers and the NonBelievers. His ressurrection showed that he Won the Battle over Death then in Matthew 28, he tells his followers to go out and teach and baptize in the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. So Jesus was more then a prophet.
Peace
If Jesus died for both Believers and non-Believers how can anyone be punished.
Moreover, if Jesus took away our sins, why do we still have people that commit sins, that were erased by the death and resurrection of Jesus?
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
Well Christ says:
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Also in Rev.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So again it depends on what you consider unbelievers, someone who denies Christ or someone who has never heard of him..??
What passage does this material from Revelation come from?
You have not answered the question. Billions of people have existed that had no knowledge of Christ before or after his birth. Are claiming that God will punish these people simply because they failed to know of Jesus.
All people prior to Christ were Judged accordingly, Of course Christ had not shed his blood so how can they be blamed. Are you really this futile Clyde...
Acts 17:30-31
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
As far as the passage its Rev. 21:8
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by KING: Without Christ we would have no cover for our sins.
As Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin
So we see that Jesus is saying that people have to believe in Him and know that He is the mediator between us and God. Also Jari said right when he said that our rightousness is like filthy rags to God. We can never do enough Good to please God thats why we needed Jesus and what he did was suffer for ALL peoples sins, He died for the believers and the NonBelievers. His ressurrection showed that he Won the Battle over Death then in Matthew 28, he tells his followers to go out and teach and baptize in the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. So Jesus was more then a prophet.
Peace
This passage also said that Jesus declared "and teach them to observe all the commands I gave you".
Jesus made it clear that everyone should be forgiven--no matter the sin they perpetrated because To Jesus "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and put it into practice" (Luke 8:21).
You see Jesus did not demand punishment-his concern was teaching people to love their enemies, be generous and compassionate (Luke 6:27-49). This is the way of the righteous who follow the example of Jesus and God because by following their path "You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked" (Luke 6:35).
This passage makes it clear that according to the Son of Man [Jesus] one, becomes a Son of God, when they are obedient and true to God.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Acts 17:30-31
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
This statement was not made by Jesus or God. This was Paul's interpretation of events.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
You have already seen plenty of verses, and you clearly know what they mean. But you are perfectly free to reject the warning given in these scriptures. Just remember that you will have to face the power of God when you are held accountable for your choice. Here's yet *another* set of scriptures below. On the Last Day, you cannot claim that you were not warned..
Second Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Thessalonians
"1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; "
Daniel: 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Romans: 2:4 or despisest thou the riches of his goodness, and forbearance, and long-suffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads thee to repentance? 2:5 but, according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, treasurest up to thyself wrath, in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 2:6 who shall render to each according to his works: 2:7 to them who, in patient continuance of good works, seek for glory and honour and incorruptibility, life eternal. 2:8 But to those that are contentious, and are disobedient to the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there shall be wrath and indignation..
quote: Originally posted by Jari:
Well Christ says: But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Also in Rev.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So again it depends on what you consider unbelievers, someone who denies Christ or someone who has never heard of him..?? [/B]
There are those who have never heard of Christ, but if they be righteous, then the atoning work of Christ covers them for eternity. The call is His not man's. There are certain universal laws of that make up the human conscience- expressed differently in various traditions, but they are there. Humans know that murder is wrong, or rape, or theft, or incest... Romans shows this..
Men also have testimony of God in creation, its magnificence and power, and how it sustains life from the air to the water. all human cultures know these things and have some religious sensibility, some connection or seeking after the transcendent. Men have plenty of opportunity to do the right thing, but too often choose not to. Romans 1 lays this out. Thus, the Final Judgment is according to one;s works. Your works will be compared against what your conscience knew to be wrong, and what men know to be the universal testimony to God in creation. It will be a perfectly fair judgment. One can indeed say he never heard of Christ, but his works will be compared to those universal laws every human culture knows, and against the things his conscience knew was right and wrong. It is quite possible that the blood of Christ can cover some distant soul who never heard of him. But that would be up to God, who knowing every thought and action, can make the perfect judgment.
Keep in mind also that each is judged "according to his works." A mass murderer like Adolf Hitler will not receive the same judgment as a habitual petty criminal. Everything is measured in perfect proportion and a perfect judgment rendered. There are people who may have lied and cheated a little bit but have been basically good people. They will get credit for the good they have done. But if the have heard of Christ and reject Him, then they will be cut off from the presence of God eternally.
Since God is the source of all light, goodness and love, think of one being cut off, forever, for eternity, from the source of all goodness and love. It will be a condition of utmost desolation.
Various religious traditions warn about a time of accountability after death in their own way- from the Greeks with their Hades, to various Egyptians fearful about the journey to the other side and the need for protection, to the Buddhists with their warnings about karma, to various tribal religions warning about wandering spirits that have no rest. In their own way, all these human traditions sense that there is something beyond death, and warn men to get ready for accountability.
Many laugh now and wave aside these warnings, but that day is coming once death's door is crossed. If they have not accepted the death of Christ and believed on his saving work, then they will have to face power, and their ultimate end is an eternity without hope.
Men can accept mercy now, or face power then. Choose wisely.
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Romans 1:17 for righteousness of God is revealed therein, on the principle of faith, to faith: according as it is written, But the just shall live by faith. 1:18 For there is revealed wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety, and unrighteousness of men holding the truth in unrighteousness. 1:19 Because what is known of God is manifest among them, for God has manifested it to them, 1:20 -- for from the world's creation the invisible things of him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things that are made, both his eternal power and divinity, -- so as to render them inexcusable. 1:21 Because, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but fell into folly in their thoughts, and their heart without understanding was darkened: 1:22 professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of corruptible man and of birds and quadrupeds and reptiles. 1:24 Wherefore God gave them up also in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies between themselves: 1:25 who changed the truth of God into falsehood, and honoured and served the creature more than him who had created it, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile lusts; for both their females changed the natural use into that contrary to nature; 1:27 and in like manner the males also, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their lust towards one another; males with males working shame, and receiving in themselves the recompense of their error which was fit. 1:28 And according as they did not think good to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind to practise unseemly things; 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil dispositions; whisperers, 1:30 back-biters, hateful to God, insolent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 1:31 void of understanding, faithless, without natural affection, unmerciful; 1:32 who knowing the righteous judgment of God, that they who do such things are worthy of death, not only practise them, but have fellow delight in those who do them.
Posts: 3 | From: usa | Registered: Jul 2010
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Jesus made it clear that everyone should be forgiven--no matter the sin they perpetrated because To Jesus "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and put it into practice" (Luke 8:21).
No he did not make clear that everyone would be forgiven. You have no basis for saying that save your own assertion. If everyone would be forgiven why does he warn about the judgement to come in John 3:16, "he that beleiveth in me shall not perish" or why does he warn in Matthew 25 of those separated for life eternal and those separated for judgment? Why does he say: 25:46 "And these shall go away into eternal punishment, and the righteous into life eternal."
It is clear you do not know the scriptures, and simply assert what seems good in your own eyes.
You see Jesus did not demand punishment-his concern was teaching people to love their enemies, be generous and compassionate (Luke 6:27-49). This is the way of the righteous who follow the example of Jesus and God because by following their path "You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked" (Luke 6:35).
You quote Luke 6, but are careful not to quote the end of Luke 6, where Jesus warns of desolation for those that do not hear His words. It directly contradicts your notion that everything will be hunky-dory, and all will be saved. 6:47 Every one that comes to me, and hears my words and does them, I will shew you to whom he is like. 6:48 He is like a man building a house, who dug and went deep, and laid a foundation on the rock; but a great rain coming, the stream broke upon that house, and could not shake it, for it had been founded on the rock. 6:49 And he that has heard and not done, is like a man who has built a house on the ground without a foundation, on which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the breach of that house was great.
It is clear that he warns of a judgment to come for those who proceed through this world without the foundation of having their souls saved. Your error is a typical one- selective quotes in isolation, often clearly misinterpreted, while also ignoring the total context of Jesus's words and works within those quotes and within other gospels.
You know quite well what Jesus is saying. No need to pretend. However you do not want to accept it, and so seize on your own interpretation to give yourself an out from the clear words of scripture. Wriggle as you will, you cannot escape. The testimony of the scriptures is clear. If you reject the person of the Christ and his redemptive work, you will come into everlasting judgement, as Christ himself warns. You can accept this salvation now, or face His power later in judgment.
Posts: 3 | From: usa | Registered: Jul 2010
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Was it Jesus? No… No true Hebrew or Jew considers Jesus as the Messiah.
Jesus did not claim to be the messiah.
The Messiah means a political leader in the spirit of Moses who will come and rebuild the lost nation.
The coming of the Messiah was first promised by Moses, when he reminded Israel that they would lose the path of righteousness, and fall into the hands of their enemies, but that in the end, another Mosiac figure would arise to liberate them from mental and physical enslavement, and rededicate them back to the path of righteousness. See Deuteronomy Chapter 30 verses 1 – 20.
Who was Jesus?:
As you all believe already, Jesus was an unfortunate victim of human sacrificial rites; whose blood was supposedly shed to forgive the sins of so-called christians. Weird ritual..eucharisti the eating of the flesh and blood of the dead victim. Greco-Romani pagan-blood rites.
What kind of saviour are the Romans asking people to accept? We know that their victim Jesus was killed so unjustly, without sin nor offence; and yet noone, no authority, not even the saving grace of magic, could save Jesus, the saviour and the liberator? What kind of Romantique idiocy lies in such convoluted logic.
Classical Constatine con-artistry; and his gang of imposters created a horror at the council of Nicae.
Who was Mohammed?:
Was Mohammed the Messiah? No,..no true Ethiopian or Muur considers Mohammed as the messiah.
Mohammed claimed to be a prophet in the lines of the biblical prophets. He never claimed to be the saviour nor the messiah.
Consequently we know that Mohammed was not the messiah, but he prophesied of the Messiah, the Mosiah, or the Madhi.
Who then is your true Messiah Black Hebrews?
There was a man born to in the late 19th century when colonialism, jim crowism, had completed the de-humanization of the great Noble and Ancient Muurs of the House of Israel in Greater Ethiopia otherwise known as the so-called Blacks.
Marcus Garvey is the messiah, because by his words and his works, the black nation of Israel is being rebuilt day by day, politically and economically.
By the works and words of Marcus Garvey, we are freed by mental, spiritual and physical oppression at the hands of those who stole our nations, our bodies and our cultures.
Marcus Garvey gave us back Africa when he blew the first trumpet….chanting Africa for Africans at home and abroad. And the wicked melted away from Africa when the trumpet sounded!
Marcus Garvey is the father and inspirator of a thousand liberation movements and philosophies, including the Garveyites, Rastafari, the Moorish Science Temple of America, the Nation of Islam, the 5 percenters, Black Panther, African National Congress of South Africa, United Gold Coast Conference of Ghana, National Congress of Nigeria and Cameroons, the Southern Leadership Christian Congress of the Americas, and so forth and so on.
Indeed Marcus Garvey is the father, the founder the messiah. Follow Marcus Mosiah Garvey.
Even his middle name Mosiah given to him at birth, by his mother, which meant Messiah foretold of his place in the Black cosmogony.
Follow Marcus Mosiah Garvey, the man all the prophets since Moses foretold. Follow him everyday, do the righteousness that he taught…and ye shall be liberated, freed, from mental and spiritual oppression.
Hear oh Israel, Marcus Mosiah Garvey is the one!
And who is Haile Selassie?
Selassie I is the ever resurrecting King whose coming was prophesied in the book of Revelation Chapter 5 verse 5: “the Lion of Judah and the Root of David” who would be the “King of Kings” Revelations 19 verses 16.
He was in the beginning, is now and is without end! Melchizedek, the King of Salem!
Take a check and realign your thoughts ye Black Nobles… take a stock.
posted
This is not an issue of selective quotes. It concerns studying Jesus words and finding truth rather than following a religious dogma-absent the teachings of Jesus. This is supported by Jesus in Luke 6:
6:47 Every one that comes to me, and hears my words and does them, I will show you to whom he is like. 6:48 He is like a man building a house, who dug and went deep, and laid a foundation on the rock; but a great rain coming, the stream broke upon that house, and could not shake it, for it had been founded on the rock. 6:49 And he that has heard and not done, is like a man who has built a house on the ground without a foundation, on which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the breach of that house was great.
Luke 6:47 makes it clear that one obtains proper guidance when they “come to me [Jesus], and hears my words and does them”.Since the words of Jesus should guide us redemption has nothing to do with being a Christian.
Zlylr instead of talking about the “words” spoken by Jesus you talk about redemption.
Zlylr
quote:
It is clear that he warns of a judgment to come for those who proceed through this world without the foundation of having their souls saved. Your error is a typical one- selective quotes in isolation, often clearly misinterpreted, while also ignoring the total context of Jesus's words and works within those quotes and within other gospels.
You know quite well what Jesus is saying. No need to pretend. However you do not want to accept it, and so seize on your own interpretation to give yourself an out from the clear words of scripture. Wriggle as you will, you cannot escape. The testimony of the scriptures is clear. If you reject the person of the Christ and his redemptive work, you will come into everlasting judgement, as Christ himself warns. You can accept this salvation now, or face His power later in judgment.
Redemption comes from the word redeem:”to buy,recover; to make amends or atone”. Jesus never said he came to redeem mankind or atone for anything.
Jesus came to show us what was right and wrong according to JESUS words. Thus Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin”.
In other words John 15:22 makes it clear that, the teachings of Jesus does not allow us to be blind to what is right and wrong [sin]. Jesus gave his disciples a simple mission. Jesus declared "and teach them to observe all the commands I gave you".
There is nothing in these words saying teach the people of my resurrection—he said “teach them to observe all the commands I gave you”.
Jesus made it clear that everyone should be forgiven--no matter the sin they perpetrated because to Jesus "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and put it into practice" (Luke 8:21).
You see Jesus did not demand punishment-his concern was teaching people to love their enemies, be generous and compassionate (Luke 6:27-49). This is the way of the righteous who follow the example of Jesus and God because by following their path "You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked" (Luke 6:35).
This passage makes it clear that according to the Son of Man [Jesus] one, becomes a Son of God, when they are obedient and true to God.
There is nothing in the teachings of Jesus about atoning for any sins. He makes it clear that once you know the truth you must abandon sin and do good.
Jesus talked about becoming a “Son of God”—the reward of those who follow his teachings—his words. This is why everyone is saved when they live a righteous life and do good. Jesus’ teachings make it clear that we have nothing to atone for—once we know the truth as taught by his teachings—his words we become a “ Son of God” due to our good behavior.
You are a hypocrite. Talking about the alleged “redemptive work” of Jesus has no relationship to the reality of Jesus’ teachings—his words found in the Bible. You look at what he taught not the opinion of a man.
You follow the religion of Paul—not Jesus. You are bound by the words of Paul—not Jesus.
It is Paul who talks about redemption. Paul was not a disciple. Jesus in his own words told his disciples to teach his “commands” to the people—not atonement. There was no atonement necessary because it was Jesus’ words that give one the foundation to live by once they are heard and taught. You see you can not be judged unless you know the truth.
Thus Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin”.
In fact no one who knew Jesus accepted Paul’s teaching so he took them to West where the people ignorant of Jesus’ teaching thought what Paul taught was the teachings of Jesus.
I believe in Jesus and his teachings. Teachings which talk about renewal—not atonement. What you say about “redemptive work” of Jesus is not based on the teachings of the “Son of Man”.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
They can not produce such a verse because if you don't know the teachings of Jesus you are ignorant of sin.
Thus Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin”.
Thusly we learn, your sins are cloaked without the teaching of Jesus. This is why people who don't know Jesus before he came into the world on up to today can not be punished for what they do not know.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Dr. Winters, you must be taught the teachings of Jesus, otherwise, you cannot be judged. How can one be judged of things he/she has not been entrusted with?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
They can not produce such a verse because if you don't know the teachings of Jesus you are ignorant of sin.
Thus Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin”.
Thusly we learn, your sins are cloaked without the teaching of Jesus. This is why people who don't know Jesus before he came into the world on up to today can not be punished for what they do not know.
On African Redemption Let Africa be our guiding Star, OUR STAR OF DESTINY.
How dare anyone tell us that Africa cannot be redeemed, when we have 400,000,000 men and women with warm blood coursing through their veins? The power that holds Africa is not Divine. The power that holds Africa is human, and it is recognized that whatsoever man has done, man can do.
All of us may not live to see the higher accomplishment of an African Empire so strong and powerful, as to compel the respect of mankind, but we in our life-time can so work and act as to make the dream a possibility within another generation.
Wake up Ethiopia! Wake up Africa! Let us work towards the one glorious end of a free, redeemed and mighty nation. Let Africa be a bright star among the constellation of nations.
No one knows when the hour of Africa’s Redemption cometh. It is in the wind. It is coming. One day, like a storm, it will be here. When that day comes all Africa will stand together.
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: Dr. Winters, you must be taught the teachings of Jesus, otherwise, you cannot be judged. How can one be judged of things he/she has not been entrusted with?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
They can not produce such a verse because if you don't know the teachings of Jesus you are ignorant of sin.
Thus Jesus said in the bible:
John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin”.
Thusly we learn, your sins are cloaked without the teaching of Jesus. This is why people who don't know Jesus before he came into the world on up to today can not be punished for what they do not know.
Afronut we already answered this, people who have never heard of Christ are converd by his sacrifice, people Who know about him but Deny him before men and choose to unbelieve will be Denied by Christ before the Father and will suffer the second death.
Christ and only save you if you accept him.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Afronut we already answered this, people who have never heard of Christ are converd by his sacrifice, people Who know about him but Deny him before men and choose to unbelieve will be Denied by Christ before the Father and will suffer the second death.
Christ and only save you if you accept him.
If you knew this why did you ask the stupid question to Muslims how you going to make it into heaven.
You are a hateful person interested in promoting disunity among mankind.If this was not true you would not be trying to spread the idea that only Christians will get to heaven. This was the same myth taught by racist whites that heaven was only for whites. Shame on you.
Every body knows that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet of God. They also believe in his teachings fool.
Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
You have not studied the words of Jesus.Jesus never said anything about redemption. This idea of atonement was made up by Paul.
You are a hypocrite. You follow the religion of Paul, not the teachings of Jesus.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
^ no Paul actually revealed a more liberal form of Christianity than what the Jews were practicing at the time. Christianity at the time was practicing Jewdaic culture and Paul separated culture (the beggardly elements) from the spritiucal aspect of Christianity. It is what allowed Christianity to spread throughout the world without necessarily requiring fundamental cultural changes. Islam and Judaism require fundamental cultural changes.
As far as this stupid statement you put here: Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
Actually Jesus said you are of your father Satan.
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
----------------------------------------
Basically people who reject Christ are not of God. So Muslims are in a gray area. They believe in the virgin birth, the resurrection of Christ and his return.
Here is the problem with Islam that is the same problem with Catholicism and Judaism: its a religion of works.
Yet salvation is by faith through grace lest any man should boast. You cannot work your way into heaven. There is nothing you can do to please God without faith. There is no act or sacrifice that makes God pleased without the right heart.
Basically its not about what we do but about what we acknowledge that God has done. If you can't acknowledge God's supreme sacrifice then I don't see how you are acknowledging God.
I think the story of Christ is an undeniable. First, there is no such human concept of God throughout man's history. All human created stories of God have the same fundamental human flaws. The story of Christ is the only one in which God himself submits to persecution. What kind of God in history has allowed himself to be put through what Jesus went through? It is a completely foreign concept to all other religions. If you read all the other religions that all make perfectly human sense. They all fit our concepts of good and evil etc etc. Only Christianity crosses over into a plane of non-human thinking. Love thine enemies, do good unto those that persecute, turn the other check and give to even those that you dispise.
^ all other religions are an Eye for an Eye religion except for Christianity.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Afronut we already answered this, people who have never heard of Christ are converd by his sacrifice, people Who know about him but Deny him before men and choose to unbelieve will be Denied by Christ before the Father and will suffer the second death.
Christ and only save you if you accept him.
If you knew this why did you ask the stupid question to Muslims how you going to make it into heaven.
You are a hateful person interested in promoting disunity among mankind.If this was not true you would not be trying to spread the idea that only Christians will get to heaven. This was the same myth taught by racist whites that heaven was only for whites. Shame on you.
Every body knows that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet of God. They also believe in his teachings fool.
Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
You have not studied the words of Jesus.Jesus never said anything about redemption. This idea of atonement was made up by Paul.
You are a hypocrite. You follow the religion of Paul, not the teachings of Jesus.
As I said your childish attept to attack a dead man, Paul, My the most high bless his soul , shows your ignorance. The Early Church Fathers like Peter attest to Paul being a legit desciple and not changing anything other than preaching to Gentiles(YOU) so if were not for Paul and his ministry the Gospel would not have spread like Christ prophecied.
Also we have manuscripts and fragments that can basically reconstruct the Bible as it stands today. Nothing was changed by Paul and the Early Church Fathers attest to this.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: ^ no Paul actually revealed a more liberal form of Christianity than what the Jews were practicing at the time. Christianity at the time was practicing Jewdaic culture and Paul separated culture (the beggardly elements) from the spritiucal aspect of Christianity. It is what allowed Christianity to spread throughout the world without necessarily requiring fundamental cultural changes. Islam and Judaism require fundamental cultural changes.
As far as this stupid statement you put here: Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
Actually Jesus said you are of your father Satan.
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
----------------------------------------
Basically people who reject Christ are not of God. So Muslims are in a gray area. They believe in the virgin birth, the resurrection of Christ and his return.
Here is the problem with Islam that is the same problem with Catholicism and Judaism: its a religion of works.
Yet salvation is by faith through grace lest any man should boast. You cannot work your way into heaven. There is nothing you can do to please God without faith. There is no act or sacrifice that makes God pleased without the right heart.
Basically its not about what we do but about what we acknowledge that God has done. If you can't acknowledge God's supreme sacrifice then I don't see how you are acknowledging God.
I think the story of Christ is an undeniable. First, there is no such human concept of God throughout man's history. All human created stories of God have the same fundamental human flaws. The story of Christ is the only one in which God himself submits to persecution. What kind of God in history has allowed himself to be put through what Jesus went through? It is a completely foreign concept to all other religions. If you read all the other religions that all make perfectly human sense. They all fit our concepts of good and evil etc etc. Only Christianity crosses over into a plane of non-human thinking. Love thine enemies, do good unto those that persecute, turn the other check and give to even those that you dispise.
^ all other religions are an Eye for an Eye religion except for Christianity.
Osirion its not that Muslims believe in Christ and his Virgin Birth, they according to my Thread Don't accept that he died for our sins and deny that he is the Son. When we pray we must pray to the Father in the name of Christ, we must accept Christ's sacrifice in order to be covered by the blood and we must be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Muslims don't accept this so its not a "Gray Aera" at all. They won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven according to Christ.
John 3: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: I think the story of Christ is an undeniable. First, there is no such human concept of God throughout man's history. All human created stories of God have the same fundamental human flaws. The story of Christ is the only one in which God himself submits to persecution. What kind of God in history has allowed himself to be put through what Jesus went through? It is a completely foreign concept to all other religions. If you read all the other religions that all make perfectly human sense. They all fit our concepts of good and evil etc etc. Only Christianity crosses over into a plane of non-human thinking. Love thine enemies, do good unto those that persecute, turn the other check and give to even those that you dispise.
^ all other religions are an Eye for an Eye religion except for Christianity.
First of all I pray that all the evil you send forth for me falls back on you a thousand times.
This is the most stupid statement I have ever heard. How do you expect someone with a mind to believe that God, would allow himself to experience "persecution" by the people He created .
It fails on logic—because if God saw fit he would make us all believe, but he allows us to choose disbelief or belief. As a result, he did not have to allow himself to “experience persecution” to teach us anything.
You have not studied the scripture God and Jesus were two separate entities. Thus we read in Matthew 27:46
quote: And about the ninth hour , Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli,Eli, lama sabachthani?”, that is “My God, my God, why have you deserted me?”
If Jesus was God, why would he be praying to himself to find out why he deserted himself. This is illogical. And point to a tradition of your own making and that of other fools of your ilk.
You claim redemption and atonement is the law when Jesus’ who you claim to follow never made this a commandment in his teachings. This is a teaching of Paul, your real master—not the Son of Man:Jesus.
In Matthew 22:34-40, Jesus gives us the Greatest Commandment of All
quote:
“But when the Parisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees they go together and to disconcert him, one of them put a question. “master, which is the greatest commandment of the Law?”. Jesus said, “You must love the Lord your God with all your Heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This the greatest and the first commandment. The second resembles it: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.. On these two commandments hang thw whole LAW, and the Prophets also”.
There is no mention here of redemption and atonement. If we are to follow the words of Jesus as he taught us; Why should we listen to a fool like you, putting words into Jesus mouth he never uttered?
In fact Jesus did not want to suffer for anyone if he had anything to do with it. Thus in Luke 22:41-42, Jesus prayed
quote: Then he [Jesus] withdrew from them, about a stone’s throw away, and knelt down and prayed. “Father”, he said, “if you are willing take this cup away from me. Nevertheless, let your will be done not mine”.
Here we see that Jesus did not want to die on the cross for anyone. He preferred to live. But, if he must die he did so as an obedient follower of Lord God.
If Jesus believed in atonement and the redemptive power of his death he would have sought this out willingly, instead of asking Lord God to “take this cup away from me”.
Osirion you are truly stupid. This stupidity is probably the result of you only knowing what your leaders taught you instead of reading the Good Book, to see what Jesus really said.
You and Jari can pat each other on the back and believe you are right but ,as I have shown throughout this debate, what you teach is not reflected in the words of Jesus and recorded in the Bible.
posted
First of all I pray that all the evil you send forth for me falls back on you a thousand times.
There is no mention here of redemption and atonement. If we are to follow the words of Jesus as he taught us; Why should we listen to a fool like you, putting words into Jesus mouth he never uttered?
Just call me Jari wrote:
quote:
Osirion its not that Muslims believe in Christ and his Virgin Birth, they according to my Thread Don't accept that he died for our sins and deny that he is the Son. When we pray we must pray to the Father in the name of Christ, we must accept Christ's sacrifice in order to be covered by the blood and we must be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Muslims don't accept this so its not a "Gray Aera" at all. They won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven according to Christ.
Muslims probably don’t believe in sacrifice because Jesus never believed in sacrifice as a way to show faith in God.
In fact Jesus did not want to suffer for anyone if he had anything to do with it. Thus in Luke 22:41-42, Jesus prayed
quote: Then he [Jesus] withdrew from them, about a stone’s throw away, and knelt down and prayed. “Father”, he said, “if you are willing take this cup away from me. Nevertheless, let your will be done not mine”.
Here we see that Jesus did not want to die on the cross for anyone. He preferred to live. But, if he must die he did so as an obedient follower of Lord God.
If Jesus believed in atonement and the redemptive power of his death he would have sought this out willingly, instead of asking Lord God to “take this cup away from me”.
Since Jesus did not want to die on the cross, the alleged Muslim teachings you cite are in conformity to the teachings of Jesus.
Jari , I have shown throughout this debate, what you teach is not reflected in the words of Jesus and recorded in the Bible.
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
Well Christ says:
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Also in Rev.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So again it depends on what you consider unbelievers, someone who denies Christ or someone who has never heard of him..??
What passage does this material from Revelation come from?
You have not answered the question. Billions of people have existed that had no knowledge of Christ before or after his birth. Are claiming that God will punish these people simply because they failed to know of Jesus.
Like myself, I believe that every child at age 8-10 ask themselves this exact same question. Once they answer it they understand immediately that Christianity is a CON game, illogic rules the roost and only those who refuse to use their brains are susceptible to this contradictory belief system filled with pagan rituals and myths.
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
How can He punish you??
God has limits to his forgiveness, like when you sin becuase anyone say: "Bah, he will forgive me all the time, I can sin everytime, everywhere", or I don't give about God punishment"", or also whne the sin is to heavy to forgive.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
How can He punish you??
God has limits to his forgiveness, like when you sin becuase anyone say: "Bah, he will forgive me all the time, I can sin everytime, everywhere", or I don't give about God punishment"", or also whne the sin is to heavy to forgive.
Cite some specific material to comment on. Right now you are only giving your opinion.
For example , what sins did God say He does not forgive?
posted
No sin against the holy spirit is forgiven. NEVER!
What this means if you have come to know about God through accurate knowledge of his word, repent and get baptised and then turn around and go back to sin. There is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 10:26-31Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Afronut we already answered this, people who have never heard of Christ are converd by his sacrifice, people Who know about him but Deny him before men and choose to unbelieve will be Denied by Christ before the Father and will suffer the second death.
Christ and only save you if you accept him.
If you knew this why did you ask the stupid question to Muslims how you going to make it into heaven.
You are a hateful person interested in promoting disunity among mankind.If this was not true you would not be trying to spread the idea that only Christians will get to heaven. This was the same myth taught by racist whites that heaven was only for whites. Shame on you.
Every body knows that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet of God. They also believe in his teachings fool.
Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
You have not studied the words of Jesus.Jesus never said anything about redemption. This idea of atonement was made up by Paul.
You are a hypocrite. You follow the religion of Paul, not the teachings of Jesus.
Well said Dr. Clyde!
Keep Posting I love your work.
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
I have fought back and forth with Jari and King and many other Christians who daily plagarize the Bible by adding passage(or their own words in passages) to try and redeem this fake religion called Christianity. Btw, something that is forbidden in the Bible in the book of Revelations. No matter how much evidence you post against these Christian Crusaders the more they repeat the same contradicting passages as evidence to logical reasoning and facts. Like I said in many of the post that I have had about the flaws in Christianity, Jesus did not say half of the things that Christians preach everyday in the church. And the stories from Genesis, throughout the old testament jump around so much that you hardly know who or where you are in the story. Like in my post about the story of Abraham. If you read my post you can actually see where the Bible contradicts itself in the story of who was supposed to be blessed by Abraham, and that is all the way in the beginning of the book.
Its apparent to me, that most Christians dont even read the Bible, even though the Bible that they read today, is not the actual Bible but only someone elses interpretation or translation of the actual text.
No Christian that I have encountered here on egyptsearch, have actually read the original text of the Bible in its original form. They have no clue where Christianity even originated from, nor can they prove that any of its authors actually wrote the Bible that they claim to know. This is something I see among alot of people in America. They have no clue what the Bible actually say, and probably will never take the effort to learn, if not just for their own salvation.
But I must have forgot; Jesus died for their Salvation, so they can do or say no wrong!
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
How can He punish you??
Clyde, this is how it goes down. After you die you stand before God and he goes over your life. If there are some sins you haven't been repentant of he asks you if you want to be forgiven. If you answer honestly "yes" you are forgiven and enter heaven. But if you answer "no" or your "yes" is insincere you go to hell. That's how it goes down.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
How can He punish you??
Clyde, this is how it goes down. After you die you stand before God and he goes over your life. If there are some sins you haven't been repentant of he asks you if you want to be forgiven. If you answer honestly "yes" you are forgiven and enter heaven. But if you answer "no" or your "yes" is insincere you go to hell. That's how it goes down.
Lol............................
See what I mean Dr.Winter. Wonder where she got that from.
Btw if Jesus died for our sins, why are people still in jail for sinning? I thought all sins where forgiven if you beleive in Christ.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cite some specific material to comment on. Right now you are only giving your opinion.
For example , what sins did God say He does not forgive?
What sin is too heavy for God to forgive?
God does not forgive blasphemy, and he said by jesus thhat every can be forgiven but not blasphemy, becuase he will not be forgiven on this century neither the next
A heavy sin that could be forgivable, but to a less extent is killing, but also is a great possibility for it to be unforgiven, because a life is hardly to be returned and repaired and only God who gave life and get it back.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cite some specific material to comment on. Right now you are only giving your opinion.
For example , what sins did God say He does not forgive?
What sin is too heavy for God to forgive?
God does not forgive blasphemy, and he said by jesus thhat every can be forgiven but not blasphemy, becuase he will not be forgiven on this century neither the next
A heavy sin that could be forgivable, but to a less extent is killing, but also is a great possibility for it to be unforgiven, because a life is hardly to be returned and repaired and only God who gave life and get it back.
^Boy who you playing with Wont you back that thang up.
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
The Bible! Which translation? There are like 1,000 of them. I know you have never read the originals.
Well as my friend always says, if you dont have nothing stand on in the first place, how can someone blame you for falling for everything.
Posts: 55 | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
How can He punish you??
Clyde, this is how it goes down. After you die you stand before God and he goes over your life. If there are some sins you haven't been repentant of he asks you if you want to be forgiven. If you answer honestly "yes" you are forgiven and enter heaven. But if you answer "no" or your "yes" is insincere you go to hell. That's how it goes down.
posted
I had a near death experience and that's what went down. I got sent back to earth. He also told me the Bible doesn't cover everything and some of it was outdated. We both laughed.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I'm still waiting for a verse where God says he will punish the unbelievers. So far, no one has provided that.
no, there is not a verse wehere he says he will punish unbelievers, but he punishes evil-doers(and an unbeliever is not an evil-doer, but one who doesn't believe in him)
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cite some specific material to comment on. Right now you are only giving your opinion.
For example , what sins did God say He does not forgive?
What sin is too heavy for God to forgive?
God does not forgive blasphemy, and he said by jesus thhat every can be forgiven but not blasphemy, becuase he will not be forgiven on this century neither the next
A heavy sin that could be forgivable, but to a less extent is killing, but also is a great possibility for it to be unforgiven, because a life is hardly to be returned and repaired and only God who gave life and get it back.
Blashemy against the Holy spirit...not just "Blasphemy" but Blasphemy against the holy spirit.
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