quote:Originally posted by Firewall: This person forgets that whites were raceswapped too in the comicbook shows and movies with asians,blacks etc..
In fact in the eternals movies sersi was race swapped and in the comics she was original white,now she is eastasian looking in the mcu and east asian now in the comics.
Yes, some classic DC figures have also changed color, like Batwoman and Robin who originally were white
The new batwoman was not raceswapped and the white one was still in the show. She is just a new batwoman character. The white one is Kate kane. The black one is Ryan Wilder and she is in the comics now because of the show.
There was another black batwoman years ago in a batman animated movie as well but she was not kate kane. Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman 2003.
Now the female robin shown in the picture above is a raceswapped Carrie Kelley. She is white in the comics,animation etc..but black in the live action dc show gotham knights.
Posts: 2643 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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^ All this race-swapping which by the way only goes in one direction of black-painting is at best lazy. At worst it is a very subtle or subliminal form of white supremacy. That's because they don't think there is any value to original black characters of which there are plenty of. They only value black characters who derive their identity from white originals.
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Now they managed to drag also the Nazlet Khater man into the debate about Hollywoods casting of actors to play ancient Egyptians
quote: Hollywood need to change which actors play Ancient Egyptians
African Egyptians looked more like Lawrence Fishburne than Christian Bale
One commenter thinks it a stretch to let Nazlet Khater represent all ancient Egyptians
quote: Extremely deceptive article. This individual is not from the Nile valley, where the ancient Egyptian agricultural society began in the neolithic era. This is a hunter-gatherer from 30,000 years ago and was found in a totally different part of what is modern day Egypt. Having said that, ancient Egyptians did not look like Christian Bale either
This is laughable considering that Nazlet Khater far predates anything remotely predynastic Egyptian let alone historical dynastic Egyptians. Considering that NK's skull (and not some imagined reconstruction) looks blatantly Sub-Saharan one could get an obviously black person to play the part but for what purpose??
quote: In the specific case of Cleopatra the makers of the TV series Rome maybe got it better by depicting Cleopatra as light skinned and the local Egyptians as more dark skinned
Look, regardless of whatever theories there may be of Cleopatra having mixed indigenous ancestry. The point was she as a Ptolemy was overall Macedonian so if they were to choose an outright white person for the role that wouldn't be an actual example of white-washing.
This is why I said if Jada Pinkett Smith had picked the actress Adele James to portray an actual indigenous queen instead of a Macedonian one, it would make more sense even if the Afrangi complain.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26853 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: he new batwoman was not raceswapped and the white one was still in the show. She is just a new batwoman characters. The white is Kate kane. The black one Ryan Wilder and she is in comics now because of the show.
Now the female Robin shown in the picture above is a raceswapped Carrie Kelley. She white in the comics,animation etc..but black in the live action dc show gotham knights.
Yes I saw the Batwoman TV series.
Seems they also changed the sexual preferences of Batwoman, both the white and black ones in the TV series Batwoman. There was a time long ago when her highest desire was to marry Batman. Times change.
Batwoman, Batman and Robin in Detective comics 1956
Ironically Batwoman was created to:
quote: She was created by writer Edmond Hamilton and artist Sheldon Moldoff under the direction of editor Jack Schiff, as part of an ongoing effort to expand Batman's cast of supporting characters. Batwoman began appearing in DC Comics stories beginning with Detective Comics #233 (1956), in which she was introduced as a love interest for Batman in order to combat the allegations of Batman's homosexuality arising from the controversial book Seduction of the Innocent (1954).
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ All this race-swapping which by the way only goes in one direction of black-painting is at best lazy. At worst it is a very subtle or subliminal form of white supremacy. That's because they don't think there is any value to original black characters of which there are plenty of. They only value black characters who derive their identity from white originals.
I agree to that, there are so many untold stories about Black people, both real and imagined, they could make films of. For example a film about Meroitic queen Amanirenas who fought the Romans. Or other films from "Nubia" (Kerma, Napata, Meroe). The Nile valley was not only ancient Egypt.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 3058 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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I think the race swapping needs to slow down when comes to telling real stories like egypt,greece vikings etc..and even fantasy /sci-fi ones well but original characters are shown as well.
The problem is certain stories that were told had whites characters in mind so when those stories are told now(little mermaid,superman etc,) they feel they have to be diverse as much as possilbe to the point of even race swapping.
For example i saw in a chat a week ago when talking about the new cast for superman and lois in the new upcoming superman movie that someone was upset they got white actors again to play them and not only that if they will be straight or lgbt.
So you have certain folks who are not white that were pushing for race swapping etc..and i think that was original cause or mess in the first place. Either way even when the original poc characters or women are shown and push there will be folks upset as well.
The problem their are just folk who don't want poc or women push or to have any leading roles.
Here some talk about from cbr.
by KidStranglehold
quote: I OFFICIALLY take back everything I said about Marvel's diversity push. With them giving non-white characters titles that use to belong to white characters. For example the Hulk or Iron man. Before I thought it was lazy on Marvel's push when they should be pushing the minority characters they ALREADY HAVE But... JESUS CHRIST..... Reading through Comicvine that site has become the comicbook site for alt righters. I hope Marvel keeps doing what they are doing to make these clowns angry. Who needs readers like them? I'm sorry of this post is dramatic. Lastly you can tell its not just about white characters turning non-white. No they just dont wanna see non-white characters at all! With them constantly complaining about the Black Panther film. http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?596-The-Minority-Report!-Diversity-In-The-MU/page257 _________________ Sutekh quote- Indeed, it was the early 'diversity push' that resulted in the creation of characters like Storm and Cyborg that led to the biggest sales numbers seen in my lifetime, and, I'm sure, there was some Archie Bunker-type complaining about why there had to be a black person shoved down their throat on the Teen Titans or X-Men. http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?100159-Generations-The-Thunder-REVIEW-and-SPOILERS/page9 _________________ Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post Sure, MM totally didn't seem like an afterthought, that's why for 50 years he didn't get a single long-lasting standalone book. Compare MM's treatment over the years to the way even the "secondary" original members like Aquaman or Flash have been treated and he starts to looks like an afterthought very fast. You're correct about Marvel, as compared to DC's treatment of Cyborg, they absolutely treated minority characters like Sam or Miles much better, but often at the expense of their "classic" characters and alienated lots fans in the process. In any event, Cyborg could "fit" the JL just as good as J'onn did, as long as DC made the effort to do so. It's just a shame they seemingly didn't give it much thought sooner than they did. I'm also curious what would happen post-Rebirth. Is Vic still going to be a founding JL member, Wally did remember him when he was trapped in the speed force. If his TT past is restored, would they just put him in the Titans book and bring J'onn back to the JL. _______________ Quote Originally Posted by BradleyFan I prefer Marvel's way to DC's way any day of the week. Comic fans will always be upset about something being changed from the status quo. And if you add a nonwhite character to the mix, they'll get even more upset. When Cyborg was first brought onto the Justice League, people said over and over again that his inclusion was "forced" and "stupid" and DC was just trying to be PC, and those were the exact same comments that people said about Miles, and Sam Wilson and and Kamala Kahn, and all the other nonwhite heroes. The difference between Cyborg and the others? The others were pushed to the forefront and supported regardless of Comic fans' disapproval. People are going to have a problem with nonwhite heroes, no matter how you introduce them. And if you work to ensure that you're customer base is comfortable with these new nonwhite heroes, the property you're trying to support won't get any support at all. Marvel may have alienated some fans, but I like that they're working hard to make their property inclusive. Honestly, if those comic fans don't want these minority heroes taking the mantles of established white heroes, they should be the ones buying books like Cyborg... Cyborg a-k-a Vic Stone Appreciation Cyborg-(a-k-a-Vic-Stone)-Appreciation-REDUX!!!!!!/page159
The above goes for non comicbook stuff as well,but you get the point.
Posts: 2643 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote: Let's keep mind there are eternals who are diverse(i seen the marvel wiki list) but most of the most known ones before the new recent comics and mcu movie were not poc and women.
The eternals who are diverse and less known before recent comics and the new movie could have replaced the more known ones who are not women and poc but they decide not to that and they change the race/gender swap some of more famous ones.
They did that for some of the inhumans royal family in the inhumans show but they are inhumans who are women and poc who are not in royal family in comics.
DC has done more race and gender swapping in comics and live action then marvel by the way(rebooting characters over and over again etc..)
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I Edited my last two posts on the last page and Some more talk below.
quote: Quote Originally Posted by penthotal View Post Actually, the fact that they choose to use their biggest brands to tell these stories shows how serious they are about it. A Thor or Iron Man book will always sell more than a New Character one, so the run will last longer and more readers will be exposed to the character, helping it acquire a larger fanbase.
Also, media wouldn't care the same way for New Black / Female Character while they talk extensively about a black Cap or female Thor, this way the 259.700.000 americans that don't read comic books get to know of the existence of these characters, and someone maybe even start buying them. From a commercial and communication point of view it's the most solid plan they could have come up with, and no company is allowed to make their business plans without thinking about economics and communication, it's just how the world works.
It's not even true they don't believe in original diverse characters, there are pushing a lot of them. Black Panther, Power Man & Iron Fist, Nighthawk, Moongirl and Devil Dinosaur, Ms. Marvel, Squirrel Girl, Hellcat, Mockingbird etc. I think forum readers are a bit exaggerated in their reactions to this matter, honestly. So we had a year and half of Sam Cap before having both of them. We will have a couple of years of Jane as Thor before having both of them. Peter and Miles always coexisted and nobody has been left without their favorite hero. The same will happen with Tony Stark and Riri. The two Wolverine book have both good sales, while the original Wolverine was burn out as a character and failed three relaunch in a row, when it will come back it will it will probably able to make decent sales again.
In the long run, Marvel strategy seems to be more sensible than the one proposed by fans and it's not like it will take decades to have both original and legacy characters coexist, we are almost already there. And nobody is forcing anyone, everyone remains free of buying the book they like and ignore the others. _____________ Quote Originally Posted by nnelg View Post It is because it is? That is funny. So its okay to complain about a character being replaced as long as you don't mention the reason for the change? Considering the real problem is with the people complaining about the lack of diversity NOT BUYING the books they claim they want. Guess who are buying Wolverine, Thor, Hulk, Captain America and soon the new Ironman books? The fans of Logan, Thor, Bruce Banner, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark. Where was this support for diversity when Storm, Warmachine! Sif and all of the other "non white males" titles that Marvel kept trying to sell for years? It obviously wasn't there otherwise those books wouldn't have been canceled.
How many times did Warmachine get canceled? I guess if Marvel would've renamed him Ironman people would have been on the bandwagon. So if I am to understand you correctly we(fans of Marvels most popular characters) are supposed to prop the diversity agenda up with our wallets but not complain about things we do not like? Have you ever been to a comic shop? If you had you would know the people complaining are the ones buying the books they are complaining about. The only titles that I mentioned that I am not buying are Thor(shit writing) and Ironman(always hated Stark).
I said it before fans complained when Dick(white) replaced Bruce as Batman. They complained when Eric Masterson(white) replaced Thor. They complained when Bucky(white) replaced Steve as Captain America. Go to a Comic shop an look through the stack of the person complaining the most and loudest. 9 times out of 10 you'll find the books that he/she's complaining about. I stopped complaining about Thor when I stopped buying it. Go look at my post and you will see. I miss reading Thor.I think some Jurgens or Simonson is in order. So get off your high horse everything isn't about race. And there is obviously a diversity agenda. One of the best books Marvel is publishing is Sam Wilson: Captain America. Why can't it be called Falcon? I think it is so they can brag about a male black character in a ongoing.
I also think the book wouldn't last a year without the words Captain America on the cover. Oddly enough one of the worst books is Steve Rogers. Nazi-Cap? __________________ Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post And that's the entire point, the comic book readers have been having a stranglehold when it comes to minority representation. They were preventing new characters from being given success, which kept the comic book superhero appearing towards one demographic, like it was back to the 1940's. So marvel was stuck with a dilemna, have their comic book field continue to look like we were back in the 1940's, or do something about it to reflect modern society. Combine that with the fact that Marvel is making visual media of television and movies, where diversity is not only encourage, but almost expected, and you have the problem that marvel was is.
So Marvel found a loophole, they realized that legacy diverse characters based off of mainstream franchises has a greater degree of success then new characters, due to the familiarity of the franchise. So Marvel decided to use that loophole, and now we have the greatest degree of diversity in the MU since the MU debuted. This not only allows them to reflect the modern world like they want, it allows them to be more future proof as the American demographic landscape continues to shift to a non-white demographic. In the end, it's no different than any other company attempting to adapt to a quickly changing landscape.
So you can't say it isn't about race, and then say it's a diversity agenda. If it's a diversity agenda then it is about race (not just race but race is included), and if it isn't a diversity agenda then it isn't about race. But you can't have both. It's like saying isn't about race, but it's obviously a Affirmative Action. They are intertwined, and can't be separated.
With that said, no one is disputing that they are pushing towards diversity. But people want to put a negative spin on it as if only with "diversity" is it an agenda. Everything Marvel created is an Agenda, it's a marketing aspect to reach different audiences as much as possible to guarantee success as a business. I put it to you this way, if the MU was created just now, and not in 1940s plus you best believe all the characters would not be looking the way they do now. Why was pretty much all characters white males? Because the demographic of that time was primarily white males with many containing racist attitudes. The chance of Captain America being the success he is now if he was created at that time as a non white male would be slim to none. So what did Marvel do? Marvel had an "agenda" the agenda to reach the white demographic.
So everything marvel does, is pandering. Everything marvel does, is agenda based. They are a business. Period. So to be mad that the current agenda that they have doesn't fully reflect your taste shows the privilege that people enjoy. As the common statement goes "To those who are privilege, equality starts to look like oppression."
So as mentioned before, it's perfectly fine to be mad at your character being removed. That's understandable, but to be mad over the fact that Marvel is trying to even the playing field by not having almost all white characters literally dominating the mainstream marvel atmosphere shows it's bigotry. ________________________ by mathew101281 All superhero comics are pandering on some level, always have been. Pandering is why Batman has like ten books on the shelves at any given time. Pandering is why fishnets are suddenly adequate attire for crime fighting. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/93/e9/bf93e924a4fefce44f4fdd8d81774808.jpg Pandering is how an ordinary human in a flying rodent costume can stand up to gods and demigods on a consistant basis and regularly come out on top. Pandering is why Hulk is a monster, but She-Hulk is a fitness model.
Like i said in other post the above goes for non comicbook stuff as well,but you get the point.
Posts: 2643 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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^ No, the problem is rooted in the neo-marxist concept of inversion whether it be critical race theory and thus black-painting original white characters or critical gender theory thus turning original male characters female.
It's implied white supremacy as well as male supremacy.
Posts: 26853 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Why Race-Swapped Characters are Not the Whole Story | READUS 101
quote: Why Race-Swapped Characters are Not the Whole Story || The debate of race swapping popular characters, also known as racebending, and making an original character instead has been a hot debate among fandoms for years and has made it into modern media. However, what seems to be the main problem when it comes to race swapped and original characters is the amount of thought and concern from those who create them for film and television. And those race swapped characters in question are usually white creators.
Black Washing Ain’t a Thing but Whitewashing is Alive and Thriving
quote: The term “Blackwashing” has been floating around the internet as of late. “Blackwashing” is supposed to represent the erasure of a white character from a piece of fiction being cast as a Black character. When a white character is cast as Black there ain’t thing taken aware or erased from the character, there is no harm done. However, when a Black or Poc character gets whitewashed harm is most definitely being caused.
Tiffie Starchild breaks down the harm that whitewashing has done in media and Hollywood for years. Oh yes, Tiffie has got the time today to learn ya real quick while Blackwashing ain’t even a thing and how whitewashing is thriving and needs to be stopped cause it ain’t cute.
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In this this article anthropologist Yasmin Moll proposes that Hollywood could make a film about one of the Nubian queens instead of Cleopatra, whose life has been filmed so many times already
quote: Ironically, however, the show misses an opportunity to educate both American and Egyptian audiences about the unambiguously Black queens of ancient Nubia, a civilization whose history is intertwined with Egypt’s. As an anthropologist of Egypt who has Nubian heritage, I research how the stories of these queens continue to inspire Nubians, who creatively retell them for new generations today.
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^ The term "black-washing" is a nonsensical term by reactionary whites. You can't wash something "black". The accurate term is black-painting. And it is nothing more than white-supremacy in black-face parading as "diversity". Those responsible are actually saying blacks have no value in being original characters but have to be rip-offs or tokens of original white characters.
Notice, they don't do with with Asians at least not the extent they are doing with blacks. That's because these whites view blacks as their pets and pet projects.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26853 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Yes, it seems that Hollywood (and other western enterprises) see original black characters as not interesting, and maybe not profitable. Instead they black paint white figures like Ariel or Jarl Haakon instead.
Would be interesting if they would dare to make films and TV series about historical black characters like Piankhy, or black fantasy figures like the Nigerian super hero Power man.
For a long time one has heard rumours of a film about king Taharqa, or a film about Toussaint Louverture, but these films have not materialized, at least not in American version.
However the French actually made a film about Toussaint
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There are folks that will believe it's about white supremacy and others that will not agree with that or that take. There are others that believe it could be combination of varied stuff and white supremacy could just happen to be mixed in there and others that do not agree with that either.
Here is my take.
There are still films with original poc and women characters and they are still being made and they have made the most money on average in the past and still do now.
Original black characters and other poc and women that are not gender bent are profitable and films with original poc and women characters are still being made by black,whites,women etc..
Gender swapping and race swapping more consistency more the other way is more recent,so it's not been happening that long and in the past it was once in awhile, to none.
Now in more recent times it's about increasing diversity but not being as risk taking as they need to be and still trying to make profit on characters that are the well known enough as well but risk does happen and original characters are still being shown.
Note- Little mermaid is flopping so it making a profit argument goes out the widow for the big screen.
Anyway will make it's money back down the road not on big screen because it's closer to breaking even.
Posts: 2643 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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Seems the French have a somewhat different approach to making films with African themes. As for example the animated childrens film about Kirikou, built on West African folklore.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ All this race-swapping which by the way only goes in one direction of black-painting is at best lazy. At worst it is a very subtle or subliminal form of white supremacy. That's because they don't think there is any value to original black characters of which there are plenty of. They only value black characters who derive their identity from white originals.
Honestly, as a White dude, it doesn't really hurt me at all when a fictional character who was originally portrayed as White gets race-swapped in a reboot or remake. It's not like we've ever had a dearth of heroes in Hollywood movies and other media representing us. I can understand being sick of Hollywood's current addiction to brand recognition, and of course we need more new stories with new characters. However, I can't say I necessarily give a damn if they decide to make an established character a person of color the next time they do decide to reboot a property.
For example, I have little interest whatsoever in the new Little Mermaid remake, as the live-action Disney remakes in general tend to be soulless, underwhelming cash grabs. But is it really that big a deal if they cast a Black woman as Ariel? Her being Black is hardly the main problem with that movie in my opinion.
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^ I know people in California who have connections to Hollywood types and they told me directly that their agenda is to just to black-paint characters because original black characters are not valuable (to them). They are not even interested in writing any stories about Africa because their views of African culture are uh let's say 'Tarzan' stereotypes.
If that isn't racist, then I don't know what is.
More to the topic, if Jada would have used the actress Adele James to portray any other Egyptian queen but Cleopatra and hired dark-skinned Baladi and Coptic women like in this Egyptian colorism ad there wouldn't be an issue.
Posts: 26853 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I know people in California who have connections to Hollywood types and they told me directly that their agenda is to just to black-paint characters because original black characters are not valuable (to them). They are not even interested in writing any stories about Africa because their views of African culture are uh let's say 'Tarzan' stereotypes.
If that isn't racist, then I don't know what is.
Honestly, if that’s for real, then holy shit, it is pretty racist like you said.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I know people in California who have connections to Hollywood types and they told me directly that their agenda is to just to black-paint characters because original black characters are not valuable (to them). They are not even interested in writing any stories about Africa because their views of African culture are uh let's say 'Tarzan' stereotypes.
If that isn't racist, then I don't know what is.
More to the topic, if Jada would have used the actress Adele James to portray any other Egyptian queen but Cleopatra and hired dark-skinned Baladi and Coptic women like in this Egyptian colorism ad there wouldn't be an issue.
OMG I agree so much with this good post. I never liked "race swapping" in movies especially comics. Like making Spiderman Black(though Miles is a good character) because it always had racist undertones. They never promoted Black Marvel characters like Storm, Luke Cage and many others like that because like you said they don't see them as valuable. It took a VERY VERY long time for them to promote Black panther yet at the same time they WONT recast T'Challa!
More importantly they'll put Black characters in TV shows like Viking KNOWING it will bait racists and Black ppl will be the target but would NEVER make a movie or TV show based on an African civ.
Posts: 1932 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Well they have shown movies about modern african civilization like south africa etc..but so we have not seen movies dealing with african civilizations in the past except certain selected one like egypt and carthage or made up ones.
Blade is being rebooted,sam wilson is having a movie and he might lead the avengers movies coming and the war-machine series will not be movie. So more original black lead mcu movies are coming out and shuir while now a black panther is still not a gender swap hero and she had her own movie.
When storm comes in to mcu she will get more of the push then she got at fox marvel.
T'Challa was kinda recast if watch post credits. It's simlie to how they did jimmy olsen in smallville when he was killed. His little brother was called jimmy olsen too plus nate moore a black man did not want a normal recast for varied reasons. Luke cage had a show and was shown in other other netflix mcu shows and had really big role,but that was shows were marvel entertainment, not marvel studios. Plus this happen only recently or past few years. Marvel Gets Punisher, Jessica Jones Rights Back from Netflix The last of The Defenders (and Punisher) are back at Marvel. https://www.ign.com/articles/marvel-gets-punisher-jessica-jones-rights-back-from-netflix
Ike Perlmutter's attempt to make Inhumans as MCU X-Men was pointless after all (My rant) (self.marvelstudios)
submitted 2 years ago by Vin13ish
You know, Inhumans was a pet project for Ike Perlmutter, he always wanted Inhumans to be MCU X-Men and he only greenlit both Black Panther and Captain Marvel under one condition that Inhumans be part of Phase 3 but he inference Marvel Studios too many time with Age of Ultron, Kevin Feige has enough of his shit and told Disney to removed Ike Perlmutter and his goons from being involved with any future MCU film and Ike took Inhumans to Marvel's TV Side so that show get made early before Black Panther and Captain Marvel and what happened?
Quote Originally Posted by HollowSage View Post I said Hollywood makes movies they think people want to see. I didn’t say they were always right. In fact they are often wrong and that’s why they have to look at what works and what doesn’t. If a movie exec thinks something is a good idea but audiences reject it then it’s killed and they try something else. Audiences have the final vote with their wallets. If audiences decided in large numbers that they wanted art house movies then studios would push out art house movies until people were sick of them.
ed2962 quote- Sure, but even at Marvel, it's no secret that the Black Panther and Black Widow movies were vetoed for years by Ike Pearlman and these weren't art house movies. Ike just thought they couldn't sell despite the fact that the general public were asking for them. It wasn't until Ike got moved to another position that we got BP and Captain Marvel and then BW. These movies were hits. Ike didn't want to make them because he didn't want to make them. Now think about how many other movies don't get greenlit because a studio head thinks, "Oh, this isn't interesting to me, therefore no one else is interested in it." The "let's run it up the flagpole and see who salutes" attitude ended long ago.
Jack The Tripper quote- Listen man, I'm just stating info that is readily available on the internet re Perlmutter. I'm making no illegitimate defences of Feige. The facts are that he wasn't in full control of Marvel Studios until around 2015, and even then he was answering to Bob Iger officially. It isn't fair to dump full blame on him for lack of diversity when he has infamously had to answer to notoriously problematic CEO Ike Perlmutter. The reason that Black Widow is only getting a solo film now is because of Perlmutter, the reason Iron man 3's main villain was Aldrich Killian and not Maya Hansen was because of Perlmutter. I'm literally giving you a timeline of when Feige stopped answering to Perlmutter. In 20152016, Perlmutter no longer had control over the movies - THAT is why Captain Marvel was announced after Wonder Woman. Stop ignoring comments just to fit your own narrative.
Marvel Studios' Black Widow Teaser {REACTION!!} Scott Daniels
quote: Disney CEO Ike Pulmutter blocked Kevin Feige from making Captain Marvel and Black Panther movies because he felt they wouldn't be successful. When Kevin Feige became president of Marvel studios he green-lighted Black Panther and Captain Marvel, Kevin feige recently went on record saying that he wanted to introduce other minority characters sooner but he was blocked. That's why we're just now getting a Black Widow movie.
quote- Scott Daniels Keep in mind women are not minorities and black panther is not a citizen of the u.s. in the mcu so he is not a minority.Just the word poc instead of minority since they are the majority worldwide anyway.
Miles will be having his own live action movie from sony and he is not black peter parker,so he is not race swapped just like i wilk not call race swapping if john green lantern gets a movie.
Of course IT will be a show with hal in the dcu. DC is even worse because so far no poc leads will be in dcu movies so far. It's batman,superman,supergirl etc all over again,so far.
Posts: 2643 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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Why It Seems Every New Black Character is Met With Controversy
quote: An essay about the challenges of introducing diversity in film How does living in a society monopolized by white characters impact someone's imagination? In literature, for instance, readers often assume that protagonists are White people. "Many authors take specific care to describe the skin tone of non-white characters while not doing the same for their white counterparts," a strategy that portrays black characters as unusual, out-of-the-ordinary, or exotic. Another impact on our imagination can be found in the film industry, where White audiences often react negatively to learning a Black person is selected to play a part initially played by a White person. Racism has a way of crippling the imagination and as a result, diversifying characters in a society where whiteness is seen as the default is often met with controversy.
Well-written stories are retold in different ways over time, and this has always been the case. For example, at least 36 films portraying Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet have been created, and at least 12 films depicting the Grimm brothers' Cinderella. Indeed, there are many differences among these portrayals. Still, when a casting director decides the actress should be Black, as opposed to White, there is a much different reaction than when a character's hair or eye color changes from one rendition to another. For instance, some critics "ridiculed" Brandy for playing Cinderella in a 97' film that featured Whitney Houston as her fairy godmother. Despite the film's success and lasting impact, many were initially resistant to accepting their diverse cast as legitimate.
“ Variety described Whitney Houston’s Fairy Godmother as “a frightening caricature, one certain to send the kids scurrying into Mom’s lap.” And the New York Times called it “a cobbled-together ‘Cinderella’ for the moment, not the ages.”
What critics of diversity often misunderstand is their obsession with "traditonal" is often rooted in anti-Black bias. Many characters were initially portrayed as white, not because they had to be, but because of the racial culture surrounding the production of a film. For instance, even though Disney started producing movies in the 1930s, they've only released one film featuring a Black princess so far, Princess Tiana, in the Princess and the Frog in 2009. Given the company's desire to reproduce many of its older films, they've added black characters to movies like the Little Mermaid and Peter Pan and Wendy because keeping the race of cast members "traditional" would only perpetuate the notion that white characters should be the default. Black people are undoubtedly capable of acting, singing, dancing, and playing fictional characters. So, why is there so much pearl-clutching every time a Black actor is cast for a role that a White person once played? Because white supremacy thrives by centering whiteness, and including diverse characters in previously whites-only storylines disrupts that narrative.
The suggestion that changing a character's race somehow diminishes that character is tinged with racism. For instance, when Disney announced that Yara Shahidi would play the role of Tinkerbell, the usual critiques came raining down. Some boycotted the movie altogether because they decided to cast a Black woman. In contrast, others called it "unnecessary." Still, others suggested swapping the race of characters is a way writers avoid originality, implying that casting a Black person was a lazy marketing strategy to get attention. In contrast, others swore their complaint had nothing to do with race; they were just upset the new Tinkerbell didn't have blonde hair. Finally, some gave examples of changing some of the few Black Disney characters, like Princess Tiana or T'Challa, from Black to White, seemingly trolling the post. While many supported a Black woman cast as Tinkerbell, others seemed to dread and anticipate some racist responses.
You can't say on the one hand, "we don't need to change the race of characters because race doesn't matter," and also try to assert that "it's offensive or nontraditional to include diverse characters," because, spoiler alert, if you didn't care about race, you wouldn't be obsessed with keeping white characters white or view non-white characters as nontraditional. If American society started with racial groups on an even footing, then race-swapping wouldn't be necessary because Black people would already be equitably represented in literature and films. However, including black characters in old stories is a way of changing the narrative. Some people want to know why they see more Black characters these days, why the new Little Mermaid and Tinkerbell characters will be played by Black actresses, or why Denzel Washington played Macbeth. The answer is simple — diversity is the best tonic for the white-dominated film industry.
Comic book writer Chuck Dixon complained about "race-swapping" in modern entertainment. "Aren't there any interesting African American characters on their own? Aren't there any characters who build upon that heritage? That build upon that history in a positive way?" Yes, Dixon, thanks for asking. There are many positive stories we can tell about Black Americans, and there are filmmakers who are in the process of creating those stories, and many more already exist. No one has to lecture Black people about the numerous stories we have and how valuable, engaging, and captivating they are. "Black folks come from a long line of storytellers, and we seek out the stories that shed light on who we are in this country." Dixon's upset that Black people are invested in telling their own stories and becoming part of stories they were previously omitted from.
Critics like Dixon also failed to consider that early Black Americans were systematically enslaved, stripped of their surnames and status, and prohibited from using their original African languages. Instead, they were required to learn and speak the language of their masters. Thus, successfully passing down pre-colonial stories amongst Black Americans is limited by the brutal racism they endured. So, claiming Black people don't have their own stories to tell is not only racist, but it also perpetuates the myth of white mediocrity.
How the abundance of white characters in the film industry impacts your imagination and expectations for what protagonists should look like really depends on your worldview. If you believe that previous filmmakers were right to select all-white casts and characters, you will likely protest any attempt to include Black characters now. But, if you believe that Black people should have always had a seat at the table, you're likely to celebrate the inclusion of Black characters in the modern era. Boycotting a movie because a Black character will be a protagonist is decidedly racist and exposes the way bigotry restricts and binds the imagination. Research conducted at the University of Southern California suggested that out of high-grossing films, very little progress has been made in terms of "portraying more characters from non-white racial and ethnic identities."
quote: Note- There are plenty of black characters under disney but if means few lead black movie roles,then will be true of the past but not now and upcoming,and more so for tv that will not be true.
She is incorrect to say/write that thier are few black characters under disney these days from tv to movies,comics,cartoons etc..(i think she might be talking about movies but even then she is wrong)of course she does say things are changing and becoming more diverse as well,from disney etc...
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Another take. The Incoherent Backlashes to Black Actors Playing 'White' Superheroes
FEBRUARY 20, 2014
quote: Comics have a history of altering characters' races and ethnicities, but outcry over Michael B. Jordan's next role illustrates that, in American racism, only certain differences matter.
Michael B. Jordan has been cast as Johnny Storm in the new Fantastic Four movie. For many prospective viewers, that announcement will raise the question that any announcement of a Michael B. Jordan movie raises: Will he be shirtless, and for how much screen time? Other superhero fans, though, are distracted by less wholesome concerns. Johnny Storm, they have noticed, is white. Michael B. Jordan is black. How, they wonder, can this be?
The outcry over interracial casting here appears to be much more muted than the stir over Idris Elba's role as Heimdall in the Thor franchise, which provoked boycott threats. Still, I've seen people on Twitter talking about how the casting will "ruin" the franchise. I'm not going to link because I'm leery of shaming people that way on a mainstream site, but if you look around you can find them without too much trouble. (Niki Cruz has rounded up some of the response, with names redacted, here.) This echoes earlier controversies in which a campaign to get Donald Glover cast as Spider-Man met with racially fraught backlash, while the casting of Amandla Stenberg as Rue in The Hunger Games provoked angry social media whining.
People say they object to black casting because it's untrue to the original source material, and a betrayal of the characters—a claim that seems particularly dicey in the case of The Hunger Games, where Rue is black in the original novel. But even in the case of the Fantastic Four, where Jack Kirby and Stan Lee did in fact make the team white, the plea to be faithful to the founding seems to raise a lot of questions.
After all, it's not like there's been one, true, unwavering Fantastic Four over the decades. The Thing was originally drawn by Jack Kirby as a lumpy mess; it took a while for him to settle down into the more-streamlined orange form fans know and love. Sue Storm at first could only turn invisible; it was some time before she developed the invisible force fields that made her useful in a fight. For that matter, She-Hulk replaced the Thing on the team for a while. And then there was a popular series where the Fantastic Four turned into zombies. Comics are serial soap-opera fantasies; people change costumes, grow blue fur, die, grow a third eye, come back to life, are replaced by a clone and turn to the dark side. Nothing stays the same. Why, then, is this particular, relatively minor alteration in canon seen as a betrayal?
You could argue that racial difference is more noticeable, or different in kind, than plot-driven death or blue fur or zombiefication. But then, how account for the fact that in the comics characters like Iron Man, Spider-Man, and Green Lantern have, at various times, been black? More, certain changes in racial background or casting seem to provoke little comment. No one, as far as I'm aware, has complained about Scarlett Johansson's casting as the Black Widow on ethnic grounds. Yet Johansson’s background is Jewish. The original Black Widow, Natalia Romanova, has what appears to be an ethnic Russian name; there was no indication that she was originally supposed to be Jewish. Given the anti-Semitism in Cold War Russia, a Jewish ethnic identity would in context be a significant alteration to the character. Why, then, do people care about Storm, but nobody cared about Romanov?
"Fans often seem to believe that if a character is changed from white to black, they will no longer be able to identify with that superhero."
The answer is obvious enough. American racism holds that only certain racial differences matter. Jews, Italians, Eastern Europeans, Irish—all those people are white and can play one another with nary an eyebrow raised. Nobody is worried about whether Sue Storm has exactly the mix of Irish, German, and French-Canadian ancestry as Kate Mara, who has been cast to play her. For that matter, no one would say a thing if the actors cast to play Sue and Johnny, sister and brother, came from different ethnic backgrounds and didn't look much alike. It's only when one is black and one is white that you need to start worrying about family logistics. (And yes, you can find folks doing that on Twitter as well—because getting turned into living fire by cosmic rays is an everyday thing, but adoption is weird.)
"Fans often seem to believe that if a character is changed from white to black, they will no longer be able to identify with that superhero" Aaron Kashtan, a postdoctoral fellow at Georgia Tech who teaches a course on transmedia storytelling, wrote in an email to me. Kashtan adds that this is an example of "unconscious or overt racism"—a point underlined by the fact that the barriers to identification are so clearly arbitrary. Certain different people—Jews, or Irish, or folks with a hide made of orange rock—can be points of identification. Others, especially African-Americans or anyone with dark skin, can't. The issue here isn't staying true to the original. The issue is racism.
Kashtan points out as well that staying true to the original is in itself not easily separable from racism. "Superhero comics were developed in the cultural context of '60s America," he says, "where it was just normal for all the characters to be white. When Stan Lee included a black character, Gabe Jones, in Sgt. Fury and the Howling Commandos, he actually had to tell the color separators that this character was supposed to be black, because the default assumption was that every character would be white." Kashtan adds that, "This default assumption of whiteness is no longer acceptable."
That's a good thing. Hopefully, Fantastic Four will be a hit in part because of Michael B. Jordan (shirtless or not); Hollywood will continue to put African-American superheroes on screen, and eventually folks won't feel any more need to grumble than they did when that non-Kryptonian Henry Cavill was cast as Superman.
Noah Berlatsky edits the online comics-and-culture website The Hooded Utilitarian and is the author of the book Wonder Woman: Bondage and Feminism in the Marston/Peter Comics, 1941-48.
quote: Here we get Rippa getting ripped apart. What is the difference between characters introduced back in the day and now? THE INTERNET, MARKETING. LOL
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I posted this in the other thread awhile ago.
Who Is the Sentry? Steven Yeun's Rumored Thunderbolts Role, Explained
quote:
Rumors suggest Steven Yeun's role in Marvel's Thunderbolts will be the Sentry, a relatively recent hero whose arrival often portends catastrophe. One of the biggest projects in the works for Phase Five of the Marvel Cinematic Universe is Thunderbolts, a loose adaptation of the comic series of the same name, which will see a handful of the MCU's previous villains team up under the leadership of unscrupulous CIA director Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine. Details of the story are being kept under wraps thus far, but it has been confirmed that Harrison Ford will take over the role of Thaddeus Ross from the late William Hurt, while Ayo Edebiri and Steven Yeun have been cast in unknown but significant roles.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I know people in California who have connections to Hollywood types and they told me directly that their agenda is to just to black-paint characters because original black characters are not valuable (to them). They are not even interested in writing any stories about Africa because their views of African culture are uh let's say 'Tarzan' stereotypes.
If that isn't racist, then I don't know what is.
More to the topic, if Jada would have used the actress Adele James to portray any other Egyptian queen but Cleopatra and hired dark-skinned Baladi and Coptic women like in this Egyptian colorism ad there wouldn't be an issue.
Yeah,that doesn't make any sense. If Black race swapping is some master plan by elite whites,why not use Hispanics? If the numbers are accurate,they outnumber Black people in the U.S and the higher ups in Hollywood could select between Native, Black people, Mulatto/Mestizos and "spicy whites."
It makes no sense say Black people have no value so that's why would don't get African based movies then switch white characters to Black people. That's a conflicting statement. Also,the picture in your link sucks.
Posts: 1125 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Thereal: Yeah,that doesn't make any sense. If Black race swapping is some master plan by elite whites,why not use Hispanics? If the numbers are accurate,they outnumber Black people in the U.S and the higher ups in Hollywood could select between Native, Black people, Mulatto/Mestizos and "spicy whites."
It makes no sense say Black people have no value so that's why would don't get African based movies then switch white characters to Black people. That's a conflicting statement. Also,the picture in your link sucks.
Its even worse than that, because 'black culture' is the face of popular entertainment from America all over the world. Yet black people don't get most of the money from it, as opposed to white owned studios. So the hypocrisy is literally all over the place. Not to mention some of the most popular modern artists in Egypt are rapping as well. Should black people call that cultural appropriation?
And as far as Africa goes, a lot of fantasy in games over the last few decades have been openly harvesting African cultural elements. Even though you may not be aware of this unless you actually know African history and are aware of these elements. I can name numerous examples but it is in many games from World of Warcraft weapons and attribute suffixes based on animal names (similar to African stafffs associated with animal spirit attributes) to Elden Ring with scarabs and others. So they have no problem harvesting African culture for ideas that "have value" such as any of the numerous collections of African weapons in European collections. Yet when it comes time to tell a fictional story directly using Africans as characters or characters based on African identity it is a problem.
So yes, these people are just racist and the bigger problem is most Africans in Hollywood and most African Americans are not doing much better. Most of them are in it for a check and have no problem being tokens as long as they get paid. They never promote or create any African based content or characters of their own even though they are supposedly in a "creative industry". Yet they will whine and complain about "lack of representation"..... even though that has existed for decades now. And lets not get into how rap has descended into the depths of coonery and vaudeville sambo acts. Totally sh*tting on the late 80s and early 90s conscious rap era, paid for and promoted by the industry.
The reality of "woke" Hollywood is that it is a PR stunt by white executives in Hollywood to pretend to care about black people. But it is all about fictional characters not actual real positions of authority behind the scenes. White executives and creators are allowed to lose hundreds of millions of dollars on movies and tv series nobody likes. Yet these same people are scared to give less money to fund new stories and characters created by black writers, artists and directors. The whole point of diversity is to have diverse people in positions throughout the company as writers, producers, showrunners, creative executives and so forth. It is not simply about changing the skin color of a fictional character. Yet again, most black actors who claim to be activists are only activists when they get paid to say whatever these studios tell them to say. They never actually push for true diversity where it counts and they never create their own Hollywood studios to make their own content. I mean there are multiple nascent movie/entertainment studios across Africa, they should be able to work with Americans to build their own fantasy and fictional characters and brands across the diaspora. But nope. They just want to be the black version of some white character.... which is pathetic. And certainly Africans should not have to get permission to do a story about ancient African history from Europeans or anybody else who does not identify as African, whether it be KMT, Sudan, the Sahara, West Africa, South Africa or anywhere else.
Some of the best films about African history have been made by African yet they are largely unknown in the west, such as Cheddo, by Ousmane Sembene:
Women, Actors of Color Better Represented in 2019 Films, Study Finds
quote:
In a study released Tuesday, the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative examined the 100 top-grossing films of 2019 and found that there was a notable improvement in the representation of both actors of color and females.
Despite the lack of actors of color nominated at the 2020 Oscars, 2019 was a year of positive change for inclusion in popular movies.
Research from the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative examined the 100 top-grossing films of 2019 and found that there was a notable improvement in the representation of both actors of color and females.
Last year, 31 of the top 100 films featured an underrepresented lead or co-lead, which is up from the 27 films in 2018 and 13 films in 2007. Meanwhile, 16 of those films had an underrepresented female as the lead or co-lead. The number is a drastic improvement from the 11 movies in 2018 and one film in 2007 led by underrepresented females.
Women and girls were also better represented in film during the past year. The report found that 43 of the top 100 films had a female lead or co-lead, which marks a 13-year high. In 2018, 39 films had a female lead or co-lead, while only 20 movies starred female characters back in 2007.
Despite the historic high, the percentage is still below the female population according to the U.S. Census, which is 51 percent, while 47 percent of movie tickets are sold to women in North America.
The stats prove that women of color are now better represented in films, though the inclusive stars are often overlooked during awards season. The 2020 BAFTA Awards nominated only white actors, while Cynthia Erivo is the only performer of color nominated at the upcoming Oscars.
“It is clear that Hollywood is taking steps to create more inclusive stories and that those films are connecting with audiences,” wrote Stacy L. Smith, founder of the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, in the report. “Yet there is also a very obvious disconnect between what sells tickets and what garners awards, (and that) points to a systemic bias at cultural institutions like the BAFTAs or the Academy Awards.”
She continued, “After another year in which the major studios increased their output of films with female and underrepresented leads or co-leads, it is critical to recognize that talent is not limited by gender or race/ethnicity.”
Walt Disney Studios outperformed its competitors by earning $4.1 billion for its female-driven content, which is more than four times as much as the next highest-grossing distributor Universal Pictures with $893 million. Disney also earned $2.7 billion for its films with underrepresented leads. The number is almost twice as much as Universal’s earnings, which was $1.5 billion.
Universal championed women and underrepresented actors during 2019. The studio distributed nine movies starring females and eight featuring lead actors of color, which is more films with female or underrepresented lead actors than any other studio.
Smith found that “studios are putting money behind inclusion and the box office is responding in kind.”
Despite the increase of females onscreen, the report called for more female directors. Only 12 of 2019’s top-grossing films were helmed by women. The stat follows the criticism of female directors being shut out of major awards shows including the Oscars and Golden Globes.
Lulu Wang for The Farewell, Lorene Scafaria for Hustlers, Greta Gerwig for Little Women, Marielle Heller for A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood and Olivia Wilde for Booksmart were among the female directors who have been overlooked this awards season.
“As the number of films starring women continues to increase, it is critical that women get the opportunity to tell these stories — as well as those with male leads,” wrote Smith.
The report concluded by stating that film is on par with television in regards to the number of stories being told about girls and women for the first time in over a decade.
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Here is another study that came out this year.
Par 1 UCLA’s “Hollywood Diversity Report 2022. UCLA’s Hollywood Diversity Report Documents “Enormous Gains” By Women & People Of Color, But Latinx Representation Still Lags
quote: Hollywood movies are more ethnically diverse than ever according to a new report from UCLA, which found that women and people of color “have made enormous gains” over the past decade in their share of leading roles in top-performing films.
UCLA’s “Hollywood Diversity Report 2022,” released Thursday, found that the percentage of leading roles played by people of color in last year’s top 200 films has nearly quadrupled since 2011; that their share of writing credits has more than quadrupled; and that their percentage of directing jobs has nearly tripled.
It also found that the percentage of women in leading roles has nearly doubled over the last decade; that their share of writing credits has more than doubled; and that the percentage of women directors has increased by more than fivefold over the past decade.
The report, co-authored by UCLA sociologists Dr. Darnell Hunt and Dr. Ana-Christina Ramón, is the latest indication that inclusion efforts by Hollywood’s unions and employers – with pressure from the Motion Picture Academy and the press – are working, though it notes that more work still needs to be done for women and minorities to achieve parity in front of and behind the camera.
See the full report here.
“Following the significant advances for people of color and women in 2020, both groups made small gains, or at least held their ground, relative to their white and male counterparts in 2021,” the report says. “As a result, both groups enjoyed proportionate representation among film leads and top film roles for the second year in a row.”
Even so, some minority groups fared better than others. The report notes that African Americans, who make up 13.4% of the U.S. population, were “slightly overrepresented” in leading film roles (15.5%) last year. Latinx creatives, on the other hand, who make up 18.7% of the population, “remain extremely underrepresented” in all the major film categories surveyed, accounting for just 7.1% of leads, 7.7% of overall cast, 5.6% of writers and 7.1% of directors.
Share of All Film Roles, by Race, 2021 (n=1,944)
The report found that multiracial persons, who make up 10.2% of the population, were at “proportionate representation” among film leads in 2021, constituting 10.3% of film leads.
Asian Americans, who account for 6% of the population, got 5.6% of the leading roles, while Native Americans, who make up 1.3% of the population, got only 0.4% of the leading roles. Native Americans, the report says, “remain virtually invisible in Hollywood, making up less than one percent of each job category tracked.”
People of Middle Eastern & North African (MENA) descent, who account for approximately 0.9% of the population, didn’t get any leading roles at all in the top-performing films last year, though they did make up 1.1% of overall cast, 2.8% of writers and 1.6% of directors.
Female actors, meanwhile, failed to reach parity with their male counterparts among white, Black, Asian and MENA actors in 2021, which the report says, “is likely related to the fact that decisions about which film projects will be greenlighted – and which stories will be told – are still overwhelming made by white men.”
Overall, however, women have made great strides over the past decade, according to the survey, which looked at the top 200 theatrical – and all major streaming – English-language films released in 2021.
“Like people of color, women have made enormous gains over the course of this report series in their share of top film leads,” the report says. “Women accounted for 47.2% of film leads in 2021, virtually unchanged from the 47.8% evident in 2020 but nearly double the share the group posted in 2011 (25.6%).”
Women also posted gains among the ranks of directors and writers, though they remain underrepresented despite significant progress in recent years. “Since the previous report, women have inched forward relative to their male counterparts among the directors of top Hollywood films,” the report says. “Women claimed 21.8% of these critical positions in 2021, up just slightly from 20.5% in 2020.
Between 2011, the first year examined in this report series, and 2021, women’s share of directors increased more than fivefold – from 4.1% to 21.8%. Despite these significant gains, women remained underrepresented by a factor of more than two-to-one in this employment arena in 2021.”
Women’s share of the writer credits rose to 33.5% in 2021, an increase of more than seven percentage points over the 26% they posted for 2020. “This increase continues an upward trend for women screenwriters evident over the course of this report series. Indeed, women’s share of screenwriters in 2021 was more than double the 14.1% figure observed in 2011. Still, women would have to increase their 2021 share by nearly 20 percentage points to reach parity with men in this employment arena.”
Hunt, dean of the social sciences at UCLA and co-author of the report, said that “In 2020, minorities reached proportionate representation for the first time when it comes to overall cast diversity in films, and that held true in 2021. We suspect this is at least somewhat due to the outsize impact of the number of films we analyzed that were released direct-to-streaming. We also think this dual-release strategy is probably here to stay and could have a lasting impact on diversity metrics in front of and behind the camera in the future as studios think about how to finance content for different platforms.”
Audiences are also becoming increasingly diverse. “The minority share of the U.S. population is growing by nearly half a percent each year,” the report notes. “Constituting nearly 43% of the U. S. population in 2021, people of color will become the majority within a couple of decades.”
The report found that eight of the top 10 theatrically released films in 2021 featured casts that were greater than 30% minority, and that for the first time since researchers began tracking, the majority of Oscar-winning films from 2020 were helmed by directors of color and featured minority leads.
“Looking at last year, every time there was a big movie that exceeded expectations or broke a record, we see that between 53%-60% of opening weekend audiences were people of color,” said co-author Ramón. “People essentially were risking their lives to go the movies during a pandemic. For people of color and especially for Latino families, theaters provided an excursion when mostly everything was shut down. In a sense, people of color really kept the studios afloat the past couple of years. Studios should consider them to be investors, and as an investor, they should get their return, in the form of representation.”
“In 2021, diversity in front of the camera did not equate to more opportunities behind the camera for filmmakers who are women and people of color,” Ramón said. “They continue to receive less financing, even when they make films with white leads. Most of these filmmakers are relegated to low-budget films. The chronic underinvestment in women and people of color creates limited opportunities for them to showcase their talents to a wider audience.”
Looking at directors from the top films of 2021, 21.8% were women and 30.2% were people of color. In writing roles, 33.5% were women and 32.3% people of color. These were both incrementally steady gains over 2020.
“The final frontier is really behind the camera for women of color,” Ramón said.
The report found that of the 76 minority directors of 2021’s top films, just 23 were women. Black, Latino and multiracial women were outpaced by at least 2-to-1 by men from those groups. Asian and Native American women directors achieved parity with Asian and Native American men, though their numbers remain very small. Just nine Asian American men and eight Asian American women directed top-performing films last year. One Native American woman and one Native American man were in the 2021 directing data.
White women are also still greatly outnumbered by white men in the directing category – 32 total women compared to 143 men last year. And there was only one trans woman director in 2021’s crop of top films.
And as the percentage of people of color in key areas has increased, so too has the white percentage decreased. The white share of all top film roles dropped to 56.9% in 2021, down from 58% in 2020. “As a result, whites were slightly underrepresented among featured film roles in 2021,” the report says.
FIGURE 5: Share of Film Directors, by Race, 2021 (n = 252)
FIGURE 3: Share of Film Writers, by Race, 2021 (n=251)
Considering each minority group separately, African Americans accounted for 9.5% of the directing jobs; Latinx 7.1%; Asian 6.7%, multiracial 4.4%, and Native Americans 0.8%. All were underrepresented compared to their share of the population.
The white share of writers of Hollywood’s top films also declined again since last year’s report, down from 74.1% in 2020 to 67.7% in 2021. The report notes that “almost all individual minority groups remained underrepresented last year, with African Americans receiving 10.4% of the writing credits; Latinx 5.6%; Asian 4%; multiracial 8.8%; and Native American 0.8%.
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Part 2 UCLA’s Hollywood Diversity Report Documents “Enormous Gains” By Women & People Of Color, But Latinx Representation Still Lags
quote: The trend towards diversity is also being reflected at the Academy Awards in the wake of the #OscarsSoWhite campaign.
“Findings from this report document that the groundbreaking collection of diverse nominees for the 2021 Oscar ceremony also resulted in an unprecedented number of diverse award winners,” the report says. “Indeed, English-language films with relatively diverse casts, directors of color, and leads of color gained considerable ground at the 93rd annual Academy Awards compared to the year before. Most notably, the majority of Oscar-winning films from 2020 were helmed by directors of color and featured minority leads, both firsts over the course of this report series. For women, however, the picture was mixed. While women directors treaded water relative to their male counterparts in helming Oscar-winning films, films with women leads fell further behind among Oscar-winning films.”
In its conclusion, the report says that its findings “document that increasingly diverse audiences continued to flex their muscles at the box office and on streaming platforms in 2021, driving domestic ticket sales for the top 10 theatrical releases and accounting for a disproportionate share of the audiences for the top 10 streaming releases. Findings also show that diverse audiences, now market anchors in the film sector, clearly preferred diverse content. That is, the lion’s share of the most highly rated films among diverse households in 2021 – and increasingly among White households and viewers 18-49 – featured casts that were at least 30 percent minority.
“Following our conclusion in the previous report, Hollywood would benefit greatly from embracing 2021’s (re)affirmation of the bottom-line possibilities associated with major advances on the diversity front – particularly in a sector reordered by the ascendance of streaming platforms. People of color constituted nearly 43% of the U.S. population in 2021, and their share is increasing by about half a percent a year. This trend, combined with diverse audiences’ heavy engagement with original, streaming film content, underscores the importance of diversity as a first-order business imperative for the film industry.”
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I was looking up pictures of Egyptian actors, and I came across this dude, Haitham Zaki. Damn shame he died back in 2019. He looks more like my image of a typical ancient Kemetian than a lot of the other people who get to be major actors in modern-day Egypt.
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^ No surprise there. The Egyptian movie industry is like other movie industries are run by the elites of that respective country that being the Afrangi. So while colorism is huge problem, even if there is an occasional dark skinned actor or actress most likely he or she still has Afrangi ancestry.
To Firewall.
The comic book industry today is more racist than it was back then. Instead of creating original black characters or other characters of color they would rather black-paint white characters. This is because the comic book industry has been hijacked by Hollywood who we know is racist. Even the new DEI (diversity) quotas are a joke. It's nothing more than affirmative action on steroids. They don't care about quality of work anymore and by the way, LGBTQIAS+ get more priority than any person of color. Whatever just happened to meritocracy and hiring crew based on their abilities. Unfortunately it's a fact that most people who work in filming and staging happened to be white it's not due to racism. As far as acting. Instead of black-painting, why not film movies based original black characters? I'm telling you black-painting is a form of white supremacy. They're simply saying black characters only have value if based on white ones.
As far as Hollywood's racism in general, this is why blacks and other people of color who are concerned about getting their stories told should go independent. as Hollywood is know suffering from their far-left communist 'woke' agenda. Independent movie companies can now make more money but spending less money than these major corporations. Look at the SAG strikes happening.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26853 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I don't agree and i don't agree that Hollywood and comicbook industry is more racist today but racism is still there. This i do agree that more poc in america need to have more Independent movie companies and comicbook companies but so i don't see it as a either or and original characters are still being push. So like i said it's not a either or and race bend characters and original ones are being shown more.
In fact overall there still original characters still being created more then race bend white ones.
The Hollywood need to be push more to do the right things and more Independent companies need to be created,and both has been and is happening. Anyway my views and past posts still stand.
Posts: 2643 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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THE FLASH Second Week Box Office Is AWFUL! HUGE BOMB!
quote: androlibre9661 quote- Its a mix of Super Hero fatigue.....and wokeness fatigue. ...and the fans being shit on by the people making these movies. Its a mix of three....do the percentages any way you want but those are the factors as I see them.
shillbill1299 quote- Define WOKE...and please, take you time doing it
androlibre9661 quote- @shillbill1299 In general, Extreme liberal/progressive political and social ideology. More specifically, In the context of movies/TV, I'd define it as injecting the agenda of extreme liberal/progressive political and social ideological messaging into every project in the form of forced diversity casting and agenda based symbolism presented as the achievement and purpose of the projects in lieu of character development, plot development, story arc and overall entertainment.
shillbill1299 quote- @androlibre9661 actually it's a term used by Black Americans since the '60s basically meaning to "be aware"...being aware of your surroundings, being aware of your culture, being aware of people doing harm to you. Now that term has been so gentrified and bastardized to now it's a catch all phrase for anything someone doesn't like. And also now when that term is used is usually code speak for "Black". It has nothing to do with anything politically or any type of agenda. Remember it was only a few years ago when everyone was saying "SJW" when it was something that they didn't like, now it's "WOKE". Can't make this stuff up. Now not only does it sounds corny but also racist too.
quote: 1monki quote- Diversity is no more "forced" than a lack of diversity is forced. Case in point, the original Number 1 from the first Star Trek pilot. The first in command of the Enterprise was a woman. The suits in the mid-60s weren't having any of that, so they "forced" her off the bridge. So you could say that the diversity currently seen in films and TV represents the removal of the force that kept them out in the past
Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider quote- "Forced diversity" is generally a term employed by people who can't spell out in clear, unambiguous terms what "natural diversity" would look like in the first place. Hell, if you wanna be cynical, in a sense, all diversity is forced because the people and demographics that still retain most of the sociopolitical, economic, and cultural power in America would rather not include or promote voices and perspectives from outside said demographics if they can get away with it. Even with that in mind, though, the reality is that entertainment studios have willfully walked away from billions of dollars in potential profits, simply because they saw stories that not only included, but centered voices and perspectives historically left out of the "mainstream" of American society and culture as "simply not marketable enough."
Quote Originally Posted by Redjack everyone who is using the term "forced diversity" (and not being ironic with it or using it the way i just did) is telling you they're a racist without having the balls to claim it. the end.
Men In Black and Dark Phoenix - Major Box Office Flops
quote:
Neil Philp8 hours ago The Woke Agenda has killed Star Wars cinematically and it WILL kill the MCU if they keep going with it
Schlock Jocks26 minutes ago @Neil Philp Marvel was always "woke", it's just that back then people weren't as thin skinned about nonwhites as they are now.
Jumanji Joe9 hours ago @Dani Implying, Disney had to pay for most of tickets to save poor Brie from being the flop queen.
Dani9 hours ago @Jumanji Joe LOL, you bought into that retarded conspiracy theory, huh. 😂
Jim Johnson4 hours ago @Dani why do you care? Are you getting paid for it? Lol if so then you should be kissing Disneys butts for buying all of those ghost theaters and ghost seats throughout the world for you.
Schlock Jocks26 minutes ago @Jim Johnson There weren't any ghost screenings.
Schlock Jocks25 minutes ago @Jim Johnson Nope, no ghost screenings. That's just Alt-Right propaganda.
quote: Quote Originally Posted by tliscord View Post The idea that referencing the woke agenda is somehow not racist, not misogyny, is incredibly disturbing. This cannot be said enough. And you can’t be on both sides of this issue. Many of us are sick of hearing such garbage.
Quote Originally Posted by tliscord View Post This should enlighten those predisposed to using the term wokeness as derivative
As far as Hollywood's racism in general, this is why blacks and other people of color who are concerned about getting their stories told should go independent. as Hollywood is know suffering from their far-left communist 'woke' agenda. Independent movie companies can now make more money but spending less money than these major corporations. Look at the SAG strikes happening.
If they need assistance financing such independent projects they could maybe ask the French to assist them, since France sometimes are making the films that Hollywood doesn´t. France has also many times helped sponsor African films.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 3058 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Here’s where Hollywood’s efforts to improve diversity really stand in 2022
quote: Ahead of the annual Academy Awards ceremony, the attention in Hollywood turns to the lack of diversity in the entertainment industry. Ever since #Oscarssowhite trended in 2015 and 2016 when there were no people of color nominated for the 20 acting nominations each of those years, the industry has been reckoning with how a lack of diversity in front of and behind the camera is, among other things, a missed business opportunity. UCLA just released its annual Hollywood Diversity Report to address gender and racial diversity gaps, and efforts to close them.
The UCLA study found that women held the gains they’ve made on-screen, representing 47% of film leads and 42% of actors. Women and people of color have made progress in the key, powerful roles of director and film writer, but are still vastly underrepresented. Women are less than 22% of directors and 33% of film writers. And both male and female people of color represent 30% of directors and 32% of film writers.
“There’s a lot more work that needs to be done, particularly for women of color,” says Ana-Christina Ramon, UCLA’s director of research and civic engagement. “They again lag behind, in getting those major jobs as directors of top films.”
A ripple effect This lack of diversity at the top has a ripple effect across productions: the study found that films written or directed by women last year had casts that were significantly more diverse than those written or directed by white men. But the study also found that women and people of color have a harder time raising financing for a film, and when they do, raise less funding for their films – they’re more likely to helm a film with a budget of less than $20 million than white men are.
“There is definitely this inequitable system that’s working against women. When you have a higher budget, you can obviously do a lot more and [the film] is definitely going to get a lot more marketing, more backing from the studio,” says Ramon.
All this data, Ramon says, points to a massive opportunity for Hollywood: films with more diverse casts perform better at the box office. Eight of the top 10 theatrically-released films in 2021 featured casts that were greater than 30% minority, while films with less than 11% minority actors were the lowest box-office performers.
With attention to that data (and a 2021 McKinsey study about the $10 billion opportunity in addressing anti-Black bias), Hollywood’s been taking steps to address these gaps. Another factor driving change: The Academy set representation and inclusion standards for films to qualify for the 2024 awards.
These standards address on-screen representation, themes and narratives – films can qualify if they either have a lead actor from an underrepresented racial or ethnic group, 30% of secondary and minor roles from at least two underrepresented groups, or a storyline or subject matter centered on an underrepresented group. Films must also meet certain criteria in terms of the diversity of creative leadership and project teams, marketing, as well as the production company’s access to opportunities.
Studios are already starting the process of measurement to address the transparency disclosures, and working to ensure they already meet those standards. And they’re doing so by working with a number of nonprofits.
Creating a pipeline for diverse talent
One of those organizations, Free The Work, helps place diverse talent on movie sets, working with nearly 10,000 companies that hire and 13,500 creators. It also helps companies understand the diversity on their sets to accurately assess their representation, to be able to submit an independently-verified assessment of a production’s diversity.
“What we try to do is actually bring these underrepresented creators who are amazing storytellers and super talented to the forefront, and say, this is just somebody you haven’t discovered yet. This is somebody you haven’t met yet. You could be discovering the next Spike Jonze The next Spike Lee,” says Free The Work Executive Director Pamala Buzick.
One woman who has found jobs through Free The Work’s platform is writer and director Maureen Bharoocha. The film school graduate listed her availability on Free the Work’s platform when she wanted to get into the industry, and since then has directed a range of content, from “Jimmy Kimmel Live!”, to a Jonas Brothers special, to a thriller that aired on Lifetime — and is now directing features.
Studios, increasingly, seem to agree. Warner Media’s Chief Inclusion Officer Christy Haubegger said, “Diversity is not the moral thing to do. Diversity is going to be how we win, especially in a global marketplace. Where we’re trying to go directly to consumers and appeal to them around the world.”
The Academy explained its initiative to push the studios to embrace greater diversity in the next few years with this statement: “Our values at the Academy are based on the belief that arts and sciences, including the arts and sciences of filmmaking, thrive from diversity. This belief, coupled with our mission to recognize and uphold excellence in the motion picture arts and sciences, inspire imagination, and connect the world through the medium of motion pictures, requires a commitment to representation, inclusion and equity. There are so many stories that need to be told and have not yet been told – we want to encourage this across the industry.”
posted
I add more views etc... above in my recent posts.
Anyway i do think we should get back on topic or more back on topic.
Gift of the Nile - History of Africa with Zeinab Badawi [Episode 3]
quote: Zeinab Badawi’s quest to uncover the history of Africa takes her to Egypt where she explores the most famous civilisation on the continent that of the ancient Egyptians.
Zeinab takes you beyond the usual coverage of the pharaohs, mummies and pyramids and examines the controversial question of who the ancient Egyptians actually were.
What was their ethnicity? What made such a great civilisation possible and how did the ancient Egyptians order their society? And she is also allowed to capture on film the mummy and treasures of the famous boy king Tutankhamun.
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I add more views etc... above in my recent posts.
Anyway i do think we should get back on topic or more back on topic.
Gift of the Nile - History of Africa with Zeinab Badawi [Episode 3]
quote: Zeinab Badawi’s quest to uncover the history of Africa takes her to Egypt where she explores the most famous civilisation on the continent that of the ancient Egyptians.
Zeinab takes you beyond the usual coverage of the pharaohs, mummies and pyramids and examines the controversial question of who the ancient Egyptians actually were.
What was their ethnicity? What made such a great civilisation possible and how did the ancient Egyptians order their society? And she is also allowed to capture on film the mummy and treasures of the famous boy king Tutankhamun.
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Btw, it seems not that the Egyptians protested against The Rock as King Scorpion in The Mummy Returns?
Especially the scenes in the beginning of the film, from the ancient war, were rather cool.
Did you see the video above link i posted? Gift of the Nile - History of Africa with Zeinab Badawi [Episode 3]
And what do you think if you did see it? and in the video black egyptians are being shown as well.
Posts: 2643 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Firewall: I add more views etc... above in my recent posts.
Anyway i do think we should get back on topic or more back on topic.
Gift of the Nile - History of Africa with Zeinab Badawi [Episode 3]
quote: Zeinab Badawi’s quest to uncover the history of Africa takes her to Egypt where she explores the most famous civilisation on the continent that of the ancient Egyptians.
Zeinab takes you beyond the usual coverage of the pharaohs, mummies and pyramids and examines the controversial question of who the ancient Egyptians actually were.
What was their ethnicity? What made such a great civilisation possible and how did the ancient Egyptians order their society? And she is also allowed to capture on film the mummy and treasures of the famous boy king Tutankhamun.
I know. I saw watch the whole thing before i posted here. I am watching the egypt one right now and i will finish the axumite one after or later.
Speaking of the axumite civilization the amhara people were not the ones to create it. I was going talk about it in the new axumite thread earlier but i will talk about here.
I am learning more and more what happen to the axumites is what happen to the kushites, and other groups claiming those civilizations like the nubians,black arabs and some others in northeast and east africa claiming kush but most of the black arabs of sudan and the nubians are closet groups to people/civilization of kush.
Tigrayans,Tigrinyas and Tigre are the closest to the axumites, not the amhara but the amhara would be the next closest but none of them are ethnic axumites. They are gone just like kushites.
Tigrayans
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The Tigrayans trace their origin to early Semitic-speaking peoples whose presence in the region may date back to at least 2000 BC.[8] According to Edward Ullendorff, the Tigrinya speakers in Eritrea and Tigray are the authentic carriers of the historical and cultural tradition of ancient Aksum.[9] He regards the contemporary Tigrayans to be the successors of the Aksumite Empire.[10]
posted
Zeinab Badawi is herself Sudanese. Her series is very interesting. I have not seen the whole series yet, just about Egypt and Kush, but I will watch the other episodes too.
I remember one time watching another series about African history on TV. It was made by Basil Davidson. I see it is also on YouTube. Here is part one:
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Seems that Jada Pinkett Smiths daughter Willow Smith also annoyed some North Africans
quote: The 21-year-old, released a preview of her new novel, which she wrote with author Jess Hendel where she stated that, “the Amazigh are dangerous on their best day. They have little regard for anyone who doesn’t worship the Muslim god—and even their own tribes are always at war with one another.” The book follows two young women, an African warrior named Yafeu and a Viking princess, Freydis, who encounter both Muslim and Amazigh characters throughout the story. “The Amazighs aren’t some ancient mythical people, we’re very much real and alive and she’s basically portraying us as this harmful stereotype of barbaric savages,” wrote one Twitter user.” while another said: “Why do we get portrayed YET AGAIN as savages?”
The Amazigh people community as well as many social media users across the globe condemned the preview of the book, deeming it offensive and very defamatory for such a peaceful people like the indigenous Amazigh of North Africa, and urged for the book to be edited or re-written before its made available for purchase.
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