posted
I made this topic to discuss HIV and the possibility it was sent by God. I saw people on another topic talking about HIV in Egypt, so I thought it might be a good idea to talk about it in terms of God/Allah. Please state your opinion on the subject.
Many christian fundamentalists and extreme conservatives, such as myself, believe so. I find it very difficult to believe that *just one* out of the thousands of monkies out there, and millions that have been around all throughout time, happen to not only have somthing in his blood that was the inevitable mutation of HIV, but also infect a human who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. The possibilities of that are like one and a trillion. Doesn't somthing sound a little fishy? It COULD NOT have been a radical coincidence.
The majority of the people that aquire HIV get it through breaking the will of The Lord God by having sex before marriage. I believe that this is God's way of saying "Hey, ya'll better cut with this behavior."
There are people that aquire HIV other ways. Some such as sharing needles, dentists that don't use clean tools, and spouses that cheat on them and get HIV then give it to them. If there was a study conducted on people who aquired HIV from somthing else other than sex that were asked stuff like "have you ever gravely sinned? have you ever had sex before marriage?" I'll bet 99% of the people would admit to either murder, sex, rape, stealing money, etc.
Posts: 4 | From: Houston, TX, United States | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Are you serious??? Yes, it is quite possible that AIDS came from a monkey who bit a guy, because the low chance still happens, given that life has been on Earth for a very long time (unless you believe in the bible age of the universe), then the probability grows with time, and it becomes inevitably high in the end. Plus we also helped increase the probability by clearing habitats and encroaching on the rainforest.
And what the hell do you mean everyone who contracted AIDS through needles is a murderer and stuff. How about babies born to moms with AIDS? And what sort of theory do you have for the very good people who get cancer?
posted
Vincent, if you belive that god created HIV, then you must believed he caused every single disease on this planet.
I have just one thing to say to you:
in your prayers tonight, would you kindly tell him...enough with the f***ing common cold? just get rid of that one altogether and finally lead us to the cure OR made it deadly. but stop teasing us with the aching feverish head, the sore throat, the dry cough... all it does it fill the world with annoying advert jingles pushing drugs that don't even cure the damn disease.
thank you.
[This message has been edited by ExptinCAI (edited 17 December 2004).]
posted
vincent-- your an idiot--- A true God would never punish people be saying they deserve AIDS. I guess people deserve cancer, diabetes too because they were bad people etc... AIDS has been around for 50 plus years ... and probably longer, just didn't know what it is. GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME ... I hope you dont have any kids.
Posts: 816 | From: On top of a dog house | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Vincent: The majority of the people that aquire HIV get it through breaking the will of The Lord God by having sex before marriage. I believe that this is God's way of saying "Hey, ya'll better cut with this behavior."
UN focuses on HIV / AIDS on International Women's Day
The United Nations marked International Women's Day by homing in on the link between HIV/AIDS and gender inequality. A UNAIDS report drew attention to the high infection rates among Asian women while the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan warned that women are on track to become the majority of HIV/AIDS sufferers worldwide.
HIV infection rates among Asian women have leaped 10 per cent in the last two years and are nearing rates among men, according to the Joint UN Program on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS) Deputy Executive Director Kathleen Cravero.
Marriage is proving a high-risk factor as a "culture of silence" prohibits women from protesting their husbands' extramarital affairs, she said. In Thailand,40 per cent of new infections are conveyed between spouses, 90 per cent of them from husband to wife.
Meanwhile, Annan warned that globally, women now represent half of all new HIV infections. Among people under age 24, girls and young women account for nearly two-thirds of HIV sufferers. In sub-Saharan Africa, women represented 58 per cent of those infected by the end of 2003. Worldwide, half of the 40 million people living with HIV/AIDS are women. "If these rates of infection continue, women will soon become the majority of the global total of people infected," Annan said.
Empowerment call
The secretary general cited poverty, sexual violence and a lack of empowerment to insist on condom use as culprits. The World Health Organization echoed Annan, saying financial dependence on men, sexual abuse and culturally acceptable promiscuity among men left women more vulnerable to the disease.
These and other factors render the "ABC" approach — abstain, be faithful and use condoms — too simplistic to work on its own, UN Population Fund (UNFPA) Executive Director Thoraya Obaid said. Curbing the toll of AIDS on women "means taking stronger action against rape and gender-based violence," she said. "It means speaking out against a system in some parts of the world in which women and girls can be inherited, and women themselves cannot inherit property. And it means ensuring universal access to reproductive health information and services."
UN Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM) Executive Director Noeleen Heyzer warned that the rapid escalation of infections among women — from 38 per cent 10 years ago to 50 per cent today — put women at the "epicentre" of the epidemic. The disproportionate burden AIDS places on women exacerbates the crisis, Heyzer said.
"The social impact of HIV/AIDS on women and girls is greater — they are the ones who assume the burden of care when family members are affected by the disease, putting severe constraints on their access to education, employment, food cultivation, and often treatment," Heyzer said, adding that rape and women's inability to refuse unwanted sex are "serious factors" in the epidemic's spread.
posted
How about the tbousands of men, women and children who got aids from receiving shots from those very generous white humanitarian doctors who saved money by not changing the needles? Had they sined? Why was their sin so great that they had to be 'punished' that way? Why is it that God disproportionaly 'punish' Africans? because they are wild pagan savages ??! seriously! OR is it that white people are so smart (and resourceful) that they 'cheated' God's punishment and started to wear condoms? (but still sining just as much, or even more)
------------------ "Whashing One's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral" -Freire-
quote:Originally posted by Vincent: I made this topic to discuss HIV and the possibility it was sent by God. I saw people on another topic talking about HIV in Egypt, so I thought it might be a good idea to talk about it in terms of God/Allah. Please state your opinion on the subject.
Many christian fundamentalists and extreme conservatives, such as myself, believe so. I find it very difficult to believe that *just one* out of the thousands of monkies out there, and millions that have been around all throughout time, happen to not only have somthing in his blood that was the inevitable mutation of HIV, but also infect a human who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. The possibilities of that are like one and a trillion. Doesn't somthing sound a little fishy? It COULD NOT have been a radical coincidence.
The majority of the people that aquire HIV get it through breaking the will of The Lord God by having sex before marriage. I believe that this is God's way of saying "Hey, ya'll better cut with this behavior."
There are people that aquire HIV other ways. Some such as sharing needles, dentists that don't use clean tools, and spouses that cheat on them and get HIV then give it to them. If there was a study conducted on people who aquired HIV from somthing else other than sex that were asked stuff like "have you ever gravely sinned? have you ever had sex before marriage?" I'll bet 99% of the people would admit to either murder, sex, rape, stealing money, etc.
i will put my openion in this subject in a points :-
1-i will remind all of us with food pyramid. (So illness and disecses is a nomral to reduce our numbers to make the earth source enough for the remain amount)
2-For sure god create HIV or who create everything including HIV. satan can't create anything
3-It will be always mistersies in human bodies and also disecse cause it is a message from god that whatever we knew and whatever we reach we still ignormant as it was before HIV it was Cancer.
4-it could be also a punish from god cause there is a versus in Quran telling :- (ÙóåóÑó ÇáúÝóÓóÇÏõ Ýöí ÇáúÈóÑøö æóÇáúÈóÍúÑö ÈöãóÇ ßóÓóÈóÊú ÃóíúÏöí ÇáäøóÇÓö áöíõÐöíÞóåõãú ÈóÚúÖó ÇáøóÐöí ÚóãöáõæÇ áóÚóáøóåõãú íóÑúÌöÚõæäó) ÓæÑÉ ÇáÑæã 41
and it means Alrom 41 *Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of (the meed) that the hands of men have earned. That (Allah) may give them a taste of some of their deeds: in order that they may turn back (from Evil).*
and that not only for HIV but also for OZON Layer, seas polution, cow maddness,.....etc the list is too big but we not return back
NB do u think if everyone have a safe relationship with his wife. could HIV spreaded like that. or it will be only limited to those who doing illegal relations.
Best Regards to all of u
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 18 December 2004).]
posted
A lot of people have acquired HIV infection which was NOT due to their sexual activity. Blood transfusions have been responsible for the spread of HIV into totally "innocent" people. HIV can also be acquired from a dirty or used razor. For example a razor used by a barber on an infected person can transfer to another. HIV virus can remain active for up to 7 days in dust, and a much longer period in a liquid. It can be transferred from urin, vomit or any body liquid from an infected to a non-infected person. It can be spread from infected surgical tools. It can be transferred from a towel used by an infected person, and there are many other ways for its transmission. Sexual transmission is the most common, but by no means the ONLY, mode of transmission. Charlie
Posts: 707 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I would just like to add one more thought on the Koran perspective. My understanding of God is that God is good. Now, my interpretation of the Koran is that NO EVIL CAN COME OUT OF GOOD, AND NO GOOD CAN COME OUT OF EVIL. Now, I am glad that ModAnwar has come into this debate, and I just wanted to put this "absolute" into the frame. Charlie
Posts: 707 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
so? god is evil - or there's no god at all as if he/she existed , why would he be so mean to what he/she created? to teach them to follow his/her rules and "do good" ? why the bother? why would you need to create humans and give them a hard time?what's the point? and how can you all ( most of you) believe in this nonsense?
Posts: 65 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by shariatolombat: so? god is evil - or there's no god at all as if he/she existed , why would he be so mean to what he/she created? to teach them to follow his/her rules and "do good" ? why the bother? why would you need to create humans and give them a hard time?what's the point? and how can you all ( most of you) believe in this nonsense?
Actually the existence of God is what makes sense of good and evil and without him good and evil would be such man made illusory
posted
The prophet Muhamed is I believe alleged to have said that he hated garlic, but this did not mean that garlic was in itself "bad". It was that he did not personally like it, so he referred to it as bad.
In principle at least, therefore, HIV is not in itself bad, but only its effect. Charlie
posted
Im Sorry sokarya_686@hotmail.com Maybe Im Not As Educated As Yourself On The Subject Of Aids.. Im Suprised To See You put
quote:HIV virus can remain active for up to 7 days in dust, and a much longer period in a liquid. It can be transferred from urin, vomit or any body liquid from an infected to a non-infected person. It can be spread from infected surgical tools. It can be transferred from a towel used by an infected person
No Im Not Taking the P*ss, I Like To Know Where U get Your information From, Ive Listened And Read On Prevention Of HIV And Ive Never Heard Of It Been Passed From A Towel or It Can Live Up To 7 Days..And Longer In Liquid, WHAT Like A River, Drinking Water???? Looks Like All The World Will Get Infected..
quote:Originally posted by shariatolombat: so? god is evil - or there's no god at all as if he/she existed , why would he be so mean to what he/she created? to teach them to follow his/her rules and "do good" ? why the bother? why would you need to create humans and give them a hard time?what's the point? and how can you all ( most of you) believe in this nonsense?
Dear shariatolombat, Allthough there is a big different in the example i will tell u and also (llellah almsal ela3ely)can u tell me why anyone have pets in his home? or why u love someone ? why the woman love her childs ? why the father pay for his childs ?...etc.
with the same way i will tell u no need for pets why i should take care of it. if so why i will have childs from begining ....etc .
with the same way i will ask u why any father punish his child when he made something wrong? what is the usefull of the values we learn while we childs....etc?
You have to answer in manything inside yourself first before u ask god why he create us
god give us a clear answer about that he create us to worship to him
(we llealah almsal ela3ely) why any king want the ppl glory him isn't the great king the creater better to glory him and worship to him allthough he needn't us cause he is the glory
and from the begining ask yourself who create us ,earth, sun, animals,...etc the list is too big.
if u lose beleive and u can't beleive in god imagine the earth king which is a creation from god why he do what he is doing in everything and then back and ask yourself what about the great creator
quote:Originally posted by Vincent: I made this topic to discuss HIV and the possibility it was sent by God. I saw people on another topic talking about HIV in Egypt, so I thought it might be a good idea to talk about it in terms of God/Allah. Please state your opinion on the subject. Many christian fundamentalists and extreme conservatives, such as myself, believe so. I find it very difficult to believe that *just one* out of the thousands of monkies out there, and millions that have been around all throughout time, happen to not only have somthing in his blood that was the inevitable mutation of HIV, but also infect a human who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. The possibilities of that are like one and a trillion. Doesn't somthing sound a little fishy? It COULD NOT have been a radical coincidence.
The majority of the people that aquire HIV get it through breaking the will of The Lord God by having sex before marriage. I believe that this is God's way of saying "Hey, ya'll better cut with this behavior."
There are people that aquire HIV other ways. Some such as sharing needles, dentists that don't use clean tools, and spouses that cheat on them and get HIV then give it to them. If there was a study conducted on people who aquired HIV from somthing else other than sex that were asked stuff like "have you ever gravely sinned? have you ever had sex before marriage?" I'll bet 99% of the people would admit to either murder, sex, rape, stealing money, etc.
On the surface of our Th lymphocytes there's a CD4 receptor. HIV virus has a gp120 protein, which is the key to our receptor. It lets the virus get inside a lymhpocyte, rewrite RNA to DNA and so on...
People who can't be contracted with HIV have genetically modified CD4 receptor. THey may have sex with contracted people, use drugs, syringes, needles and nothing will happen, cause their immunology system will eventually phagocytose HIV viruses as they can't get into our cells.
So what about those people? Does it mean that God modified their receptors??? They are not honest people but "God won't punish them" with AIDS. Meanwhile honest or innocent people (like children) get contracted, ex. during blood transfusion or when contracted woman is pregant. How can you explain this?
posted
Hello DJ, I worked as a counsellor for the Terence Higgins Trust in london for 4 years. The AIDS virus is rather like a seed, it is not a "living" organism as such and remains dormant until "activated" I dont want to get too technical, but I am sure with your skill on the computor you can easily check the information out. With regard to living in a river, thats not what I meant. The virus will remain in body liquid, for example in semen contained within a condom for more than 7 days provided it remains liquid. It will also remain in urin. Normal autoclaving or steaming of towels does not inactivate it. That is why it became illegal in the UK to have rollertowels which were all replaced with disposable paper towels or blowers. For the same reason barbers were not allowed to do 'neck shaves" with a common razor, a practice which persists in Egypt nevertheless.
Posts: 707 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Hello Melfenien, I have the feeling you are not particularly going to like my post here because It does not go along with your point of view, and is more in line with ModAnwar.
It is very difficult to explain in a short answer, but short it will have to be. If there is only One God and He is the Only Creator of Everything, then logically HIV must have come from him - where else?
We perhaps percieve it as "bad" because we do not like its effect, but that does not mean it is bad in itself. If that were so, then no good would come from it, and there is much good that has come from HIV. For example there have been major breakthroughs in cancer research, and the discovery of DNA and so on.
We think of death as a bad thing. That also came from God, did it not? Now death in itself is not a bad thing, and although it is bad for the one who has to die, it is "good" for many other reasons. For example it is good for anyone inheriting money and property. It is good for the carpenters who make the coffins, the undertakers, the florists, the earth into which we are lain and for the room we make for others being born. As much as I dont want to have to die, there are many who will benefit from it for many reasons, and on balance it is a good thing when I have to go
quote:Originally posted by MohdAnwar: Dear shariatolombat, Allthough there is a big different in the example i will tell u and also (llellah almsal ela3ely)can u tell me why anyone have pets in his home? or why u love someone ? why the woman love her childs ? why the father pay for his childs ?...etc.
with the same way i will tell u no need for pets why i should take care of it. if so why i will have childs from begining ....etc .
with the same way i will ask u why any father punish his child when he made something wrong? what is the usefull of the values we learn while we childs....etc?
[b]You have to answer in manything inside yourself first before u ask god why he create us
god give us a clear answer about that he create us to worship to him
(we llealah almsal ela3ely) why any king want the ppl glory him isn't the great king the creater better to glory him and worship to him allthough he needn't us cause he is the glory
and from the begining ask yourself who create us ,earth, sun, animals,...etc the list is too big.
if u lose beleive and u can't beleive in god imagine the earth king which is a creation from god why he do what he is doing in everything and then back and ask yourself what about the great creator
Best Regard to u [/B]
If god is almighty , why would he need to be glorified by his creation? how odd is that? A very long time ago, god was sitting somehwere on a cloud in the universe and got bored...two zillion years with nobody to glorify him, so he decided to create humans in order to force them to glorify him and make them miserable..then , he decided they weren'; glorifying him enough as they were apes , so he sent them prophets to teach tem how to glorify him, one prophet after another in a a period of 5 thousand years ( seems very little to me considering what scientists believe is the age of our earth)...so where was he before that? creating other creatures on some other planet? or sitting there, just beeing bored? Come one Mohamed , think. Untie your imagination and think for yourself once, without limiting yourself to what you have been taught. What would you have done if you were born in some tribe in the deep south american forest? created by god..ok, but where are the prophets then? they didn't even know that the americas existed..or is it stated subtly also in one of your holy books?
posted
Have you ever thought that out of 5/6 billion ( I do not know the number) inhabitants on this earth , there are only 3 billion ( maybe) who follow your so called "recognized" religions? What about the rest? why did god's messengers never get to them? did he miss something? Can't you see that religions have been invented by man - to explain the un-explainable and then control other men?
I do not know who created this world, I have no idea, but that doesn't mean I have to believe in a religion because they have an answer...I don't believe their answer, it's full of contradictions and stuff that doesn't make sense.
How could jesus be born from a virgin? how could moses cut through the red sea? how could mohamed do the israa wel meerag? religions need gala gala to impress humans, I don't believe in that stuff. sorry.
posted
hi i just want to start by saying how disturbed i am by so many of the comments people have written.firstly hiv has been proved to have come from monkeys but they are not to sure of the exact method as its true it may have come from a bite but also when they kill these animals there is alot of blood around which if it comes into contact with an open cut it can transmit , they also used to eat these infected animals so this is also another option. and to say that the people deserve the disease ,i dont know what to say to that i wouldn,t wish that on my worst enemy i would like to know what the woman and children that have been raped had done to deserved it and the people that had blopod transfutions and vactionations had done to deserve it. secondly i would like tosay that hiv is very weak and doer not live out side the human body it is impossible to catch from a towel or from urine and to the person that said they worked for the terence higens trust in london i take it that the reason that your not working there now is that you dont know the first thing about hiv. try checking out this web page http://www.chiveessex.fsnet.co.uk/living_with_an_hiv.htm thats about all i have to say if anyone wants to question what i have said please do your research first the internet is a wonderfull thing
Posts: 70 | From: australia | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by shariatolombat: and who says so? why limit yourself to this statement?
Sharia, Without God there wont be such a thing as objective when it comes to what's "good" or "evil".The DOs and DON'Ts will be matter of personal opinions.Why would I or you have to subscribe to specific belief just because the majority do? Saddam and his gang believed they were doing good job and in the absence of objective moral valuse the difference between us and Saddam will be no more than difference of opinions like our differences about what color we like to wear or what kind of food we love.
Goodness like self sacrifice and preventing murder could be no more than biological evolution to help species to survive this life but it does not make sense for someone to believe this and stil want to die for the future of the group which are no more than some natural acidental products that will perish soon anyway and all you have and can have is your present time.why would you care about others and choose to do things which conflicts with your self interest?
In other words,If you believe that things like muder and rape are evil independantly of whether some people believe so or not and things like Love and courage are good regardless if some people believe the same or not then you simply believe in objective source of mmorals and this will lead us to what is the foundation of such objectivity or the source ?
Hope I was clear...
[This message has been edited by Troubles101 (edited 19 December 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by shariatolombat: Have you ever thought that out of 5/6 billion ( I do not know the number) inhabitants on this earth , there are only 3 billion ( maybe) who follow your so called "recognized" religions? What about the rest? why did god's messengers never get to them? did he miss something?
how old are u ?
did u stay all the life in the earth to know if there was a prophet in the previous ages or not. anyway there is a clear wording in Quran that god will never punish if he didn't send a messanger. and even if god didn't want to send a messanger on them. so it is god willing but for sure as u said above someone create this world and he still watching it or everything will not be in the same system as it is now
quote:Originally posted by shariatolombat: Can't you see that religions have been invented by man - to explain the un-explainable and then control other men?
I think u know a lot of scince more than our prophet mohamed (PBUH) . explain to me and make a book like Quran with all this scince evidence inside it then said as u saying that it is invented by man. if u don't know the scinece evidence inside Quran tell me and i will give a lot of sites about that.
and another thing why any man would say to other man don't make sex else marriage. don't kill. don't steal,....etc u don't see it is good values or u don't like this values or u may be u consider it **** .
quote:Originally posted by shariatolombat: I do not know who created this world, I have no idea,
but for sure u know that someone created the world u don't know him but u sure that someone created the world.
and with a simple meaning when someone give u a flower u thank him when someone give u a car u would very greatfull and u may thank him everyday and do what he wish. what about who give u yourself and give u all the food and water and all that. u don't see we must say to him thanks un every min. whatever he was and to say thanks every min it means to worship to him
quote:Originally posted by shariatolombat: but that doesn't mean I have to believe in a religion because they have an answer...I don't believe their answer, it's full of contradictions and stuff that doesn't make sense.
i will give u a rule (never generalize) u will never know everything. beside give me one contradiction in Quran. i think u never tried to learn Islam and if u did that it was from corrupted sources.
quote:Originally posted by shariatolombat: How could jesus be born from a virgin? how could moses cut through the red sea? how could mohamed do the israa wel meerag? religions need gala gala to impress humans, I don't believe in that stuff. sorry.
Sabah el fol.
u really make me laugh so much. u don't see that man already did what u see it is very strange it is the reproduction. u can get a human from only a woman no need for man (wa llelah almsal ela3ley).and we already go to space and go to moon so what u saying is already done by man. what about god who give everything its properties and who create everything. can't he do more than man?.
just think in as u said that someone created that world and from time to time he took some ppl (dead). so think when his order come to take u. what u will tell him
Best Regards to u
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 20 December 2004).]
posted
In the simplest language, HIV virus is like a pollen grain which remains dormant until it is activated by a certain blood cell which it attaches itself to. It can only be transferred with blood contact, so if there is a "deposit" of infected body fluid on a towel, it can be transferred to another individual through a cut in the hand or anywhere else there might be a cut.
In the same way it can remain on a surgical instrument until such times as that instrument is used on somebody else.
Its transmission by sexual contact is by far the most usual. Theoretically there is NO safe sex where there is any exchange of body fluids. There are "carriers" who can pass it on to someone else who can develop full blown AIDS. The symptoms of HIV infection can imitate many other diseases, and without a blood test is not obvious.
There are sites to look into all these questions and answers. I only give a very brief general overview to some of the questions posed on this board. Just type in aids Hiv into your search engine, and do the sensible thing then you can educate yourself with the truth and you dont need this board at all. Charlie
posted
Dear Aussiemat, I have read your post and also looked at the e.mail you proffered. Now this is completely untrue. A lot of these posters have been put out into the third world where AIDS is a major problem and where they want to calm people down about looking after their sick relatives.
Please, people, totally disregard this advice. It is completely and utterly wrong. Please instead go to a proper "medical" site.
Just to finish, "kissing" an infected person is NOT safe if there are sores around or in the mouth. People with HIV very often have Herpes l or 2, that is cold sores around the mouth (l) or genitals (2). Mouth ulcers also transmit the disease.
Vomit and urin can contain the virus, and contact through a small cut on the finger or hand or elsewhere, WILL transmit the virus.
Dont be fooled by this complacency. The advice in your post is totally unfounded and utterly irresponsible. The Aids virus is not a bacteria,think of it as a pollen grain which only needs the right conditions to germinate it.
posted
Dear Sharialombat, I know you have said you dont believe in religion, but you did pose a question, about Jesus being born a virgin. I can answer that it is not physically possible for anyone to be born a virgin in a "literal" sense. However, this "birth" as such is not "literal" but "allegorical" This is to say, one needs to look at the hidden meaning behind the obvious. When one does this, then it is quite possible to say "Jesus was born of a virgin" and understand what it means. Charlie
Posts: 707 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: Dear Sharialombat, I know you have said you dont believe in religion, but you did pose a question, about Jesus being born a virgin. I can answer that it is not physically possible for anyone to be born a virgin in a "literal" sense. However, this "birth" as such is not "literal" but "allegorical" This is to say, one needs to look at the hidden meaning behind the obvious. When one does this, then it is quite possible to say "Jesus was born of a virgin" and understand what it means. Charlie
I don't Charlie. Aren't we supposed to believe that some angel's "breath" started the whole birth process or something? Isn't it meant to be a physical birth from some spirit? What I know is that without a spermatozoid , a physical , real one, then no birth can take place...has she copulated with Joseph or not ?
quote:Originally posted by MohdAnwar: Dear,shariatolombat i could adjust myself in any wavelenght u want. just tell me what wave and i will talk in with it.
but if u want to close the discusion it is yours
habibi, we speak a totally different language, you have been brought up not to question anything but to believe blindly in what has been taught to you. I haven't. There is no way we can meet anywhere. Your answers to my posts are obvious, we are wasting our time.
What difference does this make? why do you need to know my age? or is it because you need to prove that you are older and therefore wiser? too easy ya Mohamed.
did u stay all the life in the earth to know if there was a prophet in the previous ages or not. anyway there is a clear wording in Quran that god will never punish if he didn't send a messanger. and even if god didn't want to send a messanger on them. so it is god willing but for sure as u said above someone create this world and he still watching it or everything will not be in the same system as it is now
Who says so? why do you limit yourself to what you have been taught to believe ? what if this world is running on it's own? Regarding other prophets...pre-abraham..no mention of them anywhere as far as I know? Or were ellati wel ezza prophets too?
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by shariatolombat:
Can't you see that religions have been invented by man - to explain the un-explainable and then control other men? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think u know a lot of scince more than our prophet mohamed (PBUH) . explain to me and make a book like Quran with all this scince evidence inside it then said as u saying that it is invented by man. if u don't know the scinece evidence inside Quran tell me and i will give a lot of sites about that.
I don't believe in evidence in the Qur'an. I've read tons of sites about it but to me it is all very shallow. Look at an ink stain on a piece of paper, I will see it ressembles a building, you will see it as an aeroplane, others will see it as a bird..if you need to find evidence in anything...you can.
and another thing why any man would say to other man don't make sex else marriage. don't kill. don't steal,....etc u don't see it is good values or u don't like this values or u may be u consider it **** .
These are human values, values that have been formed over long centuries of social interaction..I am a non believer but I don't kill nor steal..Do you think that these values are not applied in south american , african or asian tribes who have not received any religious rules known to you?do they kill and steal all the time?
no need to use **** words too, no need to be aggressive about it.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by shariatolombat: I do not know who created this world, I have no idea, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
but for sure u know that someone created the world u don't know him but u sure that someone created the world.
No I do not know , and I am not sure, so I will not follow blindly.
and with a simple meaning when someone give u a flower u thank him when someone give u a car u would very greatfull and u may thank him everyday and do what he wish. what about who give u yourself and give u all the food and water and all that. u don't see we must say to him thanks un every min. whatever he was and to say thanks every min it means to worship to him
No, I do not need to worship anybody or anything, sorry - it just doesn;t work for me this way.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by shariatolombat: but that doesn't mean I have to believe in a religion because they have an answer...I don't believe their answer, it's full of contradictions and stuff that doesn't make sense. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i will give u a rule (never generalize) u will never know everything. beside give me one contradiction in Quran. i think u never tried to learn Islam and if u did that it was from corrupted sources.
Who decides what sources I have learnt Islam from? the only difference between you and me is that I question what I have been taught..you don't ; does that make me corrupt?or does it make you simple-minded?
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by shariatolombat: How could jesus be born from a virgin? how could moses cut through the red sea? how could mohamed do the israa wel meerag? religions need gala gala to impress humans, I don't believe in that stuff. sorry. Sabah el fol.
u really make me laugh so much. u don't see that man already did what u see it is very strange it is the reproduction. u can get a human from only a woman no need for man (wa llelah almsal ela3ley).and we already go to space and go to moon so what u saying is already done by man. what about god who give everything its properties and who create everything. can't he do more than man?.
No, what are spermatozoids for then? and we do not go to space or the moon riding on a winged horse do we? and again, I do not believe there is a god so "giving" properties etcc..does not apply, does it? and what makes you laugh, wiseman?
just think in as u said that someone created that world and from time to time he took some ppl (dead). so think when his order come to take u. what u will tell him
I won't tell him anything as I'll be dead and eaten by worms ( like you) and I will not believe in something under threat of going to hell or paradise - If you god needs to threaten you with what comes next , then he cannot be that almighty , can he?
Best Regards to u
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 20 December 2004).]
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sokarya_686@hotmail.com Member Posts: 34 Registered: Dec 2004 posted 20 December 2004 04:32 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the simplest language, HIV virus is like a pollen grain which remains dormant until it is activated by a certain blood cell which it attaches itself to. It can only be transferred with blood contact, so if there is a "deposit" of infected body fluid on a towel, it can be transferred to another individual through a cut in the hand or anywhere else there might be a cut. In the same way it can remain on a surgical instrument until such times as that instrument is used on somebody else.
Its transmission by sexual contact is by far the most usual. Theoretically there is NO safe sex where there is any exchange of body fluids. There are "carriers" who can pass it on to someone else who can develop full blown AIDS. The symptoms of HIV infection can imitate many other diseases, and without a blood test is not obvious.
There are sites to look into all these questions and answers. I only give a very brief general overview to some of the questions posed on this board. Just type in aids Hiv into your search engine, and do the sensible thing then you can educate yourself with the truth and you dont need this board at all. Charlie
quote:What difference does this make? why do you need to know my age? or is it because you need to prove that you are older and therefore wiser? too easy ya Mohamed.
Nothing of what u imagine I am just want to tell u that u convinced with only what u see but u don't think in the previous ages which u never saw . and by the way I am not old as u think and I know the wisdom don't need old age.
quote:Who says so?
Quran say so that there is some prophets we not knowing about them and god didn't mention them in Quran
quote: why do you limit yourself to what you have been taught to believe ?
Give me another alternative that convince me and I can be with u but don't give me a sick mind thoughts
quote: what if this world is running on it's own? Regarding other prophets...pre-abraham..no mention of them anywhere as far as I know? Or were ellati wel ezza prophets too?
If u are really thinking. U must know that everything must be have a reason for it. So the only thing that u can say that there is a hidden power that operate that world and this hidden power is (GOD). But to say it work with its own it is non-sense beside can u tell me why could be a young man died without any reason?.
quote:I don't believe in evidence in the Qur'an. I've read tons of sites about it but to me it is all very shallow. Look at an ink stain on a piece of paper, I will see it ressembles a building, you will see it as an aeroplane, others will see it as a bird..if you need to find evidence in anything...you can.
I think u only believe in science so I will tell u one scientific evidence and search for it and then u will know all what u saying is non-sense (moon swra) swrat alkamar.
quote:These are human values, values that have been formed over long centuries of social interaction..I am a non believer but I don't kill nor steal..Do you think that these values are not applied in south american , african or asian tribes who have not received any religious rules known to you?do they kill and steal all the time?
U think that but it is wrong or why Lout ppl god send them lout, other who was cheating in balance,…etc in a previous post we were talking about that in some tribes the woman can marry more than one man (if u don't know Lout ppl i can tell u about him)
quote:no need to use **** words too, no need to be aggressive about it.
U could replace it with non-sense
quote:No I do not know , and I am not sure, so I will not follow blindly.
Who tell u to follow anyone. U have a mind and it tell u someone create u and create everything so search until u find the true or with another wording u have to know why u are in this world or u come by chance.
quote:No, I do not need to worship anybody or anything, sorry - it just doesn;t work for me this way.
That same exactly as someone give flowers to some ppl. some will say thanks and other will say nothing what u think in both of those i think anyone will say the ppl who say thanks are good and others are bad. that's it simply
quote:Who decides what sources I have learnt Islam from? the only difference between you and me is that I question what I have been taught..you don't ; does that make me corrupt?or does it make you simple-minded?
Ok here a question who create us? And why we were created ? and why anyone died? and where we go after we died?
quote:No, what are spermatozoids for then?
yesterday There was a two page in AHRAM newspaper talking about reproduction so look and try to increase your knowledge about the modern science may be that make u believe.
quote:and we do not go to space or the moon riding on a winged horse do we?
Did u saw Dinosaurs or the roc. the sciences told us about them and the roc was a animal and it was flying. So why u think the horse can't fly in previous ages or why u don't think it is one of the creature u don't know and do u know all the creature in the other plantes (look in some of Darone theories and by the way i don't beleive in all of it there is some things logic and other not logic)
quote:and again, I do not believe there is a god so "giving" properties etcc..does not apply, does it? and what makes you laugh, wiseman?
Ok when the man invent anything he give it a properties and u can click right click in your mouse and u will see a word properties in the menu. so everything must have a properties and a policy to work in a systemic way and even not in systemic way
quote:I won't tell him anything as I'll be dead and eaten by worms ( like you) and I will not believe in something under threat of going to hell or paradise - If you god needs to threaten you with what comes next , then he cannot be that almighty , can he?
That why god give the brain for everyone to have his own choice to believe or to not believe and we have a date in Ywan elkiama
Best Regards to u
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 20 December 2004).]
posted
Dear Shariatolombat, Try to view Jesus as two persons, there is Jesus "the man" and Christ, "the son of God" Now "Christ" is the "Word" (of God). As such the "word" becomes a "spirit", the Holy Spirit since it is the essence of God.
If you were to look in the Bible or the Koran, you will find that the Angel Gabriel who is himself an "angelic being" "blew" into Mary "The Word" which interpreted is "Christ" or the "Divine Word of God". This, then, becomes Mary with "Christ" within. In other words Mary does not now simply have her human or physical nature, she has within her "Christ" which we would call Marys "Divine Nature. Mary now has two natures - her Human Nature and her Divine Nature.
As such, she is now capable of passing on to her children, not only her Human Nature but also her Divine Nature. When she had her son he was called Jesus (Human Nature) Christ (Divine Nature). This could be referred to in ourselves as our "lower nature" and our "higher nature" or our bad side and our good side,however you want to look at it.
Now, the sense of all this from a Christian aspect is that later on Jesus Christ shows us how we can achieve personal salvation (however you want to interpret that is up to you at this stage) by denying the desires of the lower nature and concentrating on our higher nature, in other words to achieve goodness over badness, which we are told will lead to our happiness.
The physical Jesus could only have been born in a normal way, by the normal "methods" of conception. Now, some people dont believe in his physical form at all, nor in his physical existance on this earth. Others believe literally that he was a physical person as well as a "divine" person. That is personal choice.
Not all Christians would accept the above interpretation because they are "literal Christians" as opposed to "spiritual Christians". I am one of the latter and believe therefore in the "allegorical" or "symbolic" interpretation.
If you understand why I say and you want any other interpretations, ressurection etc. let me know. Hope this explains things in a way you can understand. Charlie
Scientific errors and the myth of embryology in the Koran:
In an effort to show the scientific accuracy of the Koran, Muslim's are quick to bring up the claim of embryology revealed in stunning accuracy, before man discovered for himself. Muslims love to tell the story of how professor Keith L. Moore, the former anatomist at the University of Toronto, was impressed with the Koran’s embryological information.
However many Muslim are completely unaware that all of the information in the Qur'an about embryology had already been revealed many different times, centuries before hand. Furthermore, some of the information is scientifically inaccurate.
But don't take my word for it, early Muslim doctors, like Ibn-Qayyim, were first to blow the whistle when they saw the Koranic material, mirrored a Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD. In 1983 Basim Musallam, Director of the Centre of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Cambridge concluded, "The stages of development which the Qur'an and Hadith established for believers agreed perfectly with Galen's scientific account....There is no doubt that medieval thought appreciated this agreement between the Qur'an and Galen, for Arabic science employed the same Qur'anic terms to describe the Galenic stages" (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 54) In other words when it comes to embryology the Qur'an merely echoes the scientific knowledge man had already discovered 450 years earlier.
Samuel ha-Yehudi was a 2nd century Jewish physician, and one of many with an interest in embryology . The embryo was called peri habbetten (fruit of the body) and develops as golem (formless, rolled-up thing); shefir meruqqam (embroidered foetus - shefir means amniotic sac); 'ubbar (something carried); v'alad (child); v'alad shel qayama (noble or viable child) and ben she-kallu chadashav (child whose months have been completed). (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 77)
J. Needham spent almost 60 pages in his book "A history of embryology", discussing ancient Greek, Indian and Egyptian embryology, than in less than 1 page he dismisses the entire Arabic tradition by concluding that "Arabic science ... was not of great help to embryology". After listing some of the verses in the Qur'an about embryology he dismisses them as "a seventh-century echo of Aristotle and the Ayer-veda" . (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 82), in other words a mixture of Greek and ancient Indian teachings.
And what about professor Keith L. Moore, once at the University of Toronto, who Muslims love to quote as a scientist who saw the light of the Koran? If you buy Moore’s latest sixth edition University textbook called "The developing human", he actually directs his readers to read an essay by Basim Musallam, who we just quoted. who shows that the Koran merely echoes what Greek doctor "Galen" wrote 450 years earlier. It seems Dr. Moore is not as impressed today. (B. Musallam, The human embryo in Arabic scientific and religious thought, in, G. R. Dunstan (ed.) (University of Exeter Press, 1990) The human embryo: Aristotle and the Arabic and European traditions, pp. 32-46)
An extraordinary passage from the writings of the medieval philosopher Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya shows how heavily the later Arabic writers depended upon the Greek doctors; in one continuous discourse (Ibn Qayyin (Damascus, 1971) Tuhfat: Tuhfat al mawdud bi ahkam al-mawlud, pp. 254-291) the words of Hippocrates explain the Qur'an and Hadith, and the latter are used to explain Hippocrates:
"Here is someone writing a medical account who includes Hippocrates (bold type), the Qur'an and Hadith (bold italics), commentaries on them (italics) and his own thoughts (normal type) in one and the same paragraph. Of course the intelligentsia of Muhammed's time would have been familiar with both Greek and Indian medicine: "Hippocrates said ... 'some membranes are formed at the beginning, others after the second month, and others in the third month ...' That is why God says, 'He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, by one formation after another in three darknesses'. Since each of these membranes has its own darkness, when God mentioned the stages of creation and transformation from one state to another, He also mentioned the darknesses of the membranes. Most commentators explain: 'it is the darkness of the belly, and the darkness of the womb, and the darkness of the placenta' ... Hippocrates said, 'The ears are opened, and the eyes, which are filled with a clear liquid.' The Prophet used to say, 'I worship Him Who made my face and formed it, and opened my hearing and eyesight' etc. etc"" (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 56).
The Koran says in16:4 "He has created man from a sperm-drop", but this was understood about 2000 years before the Koran, for the Bible says, "Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother." (Genesis 38:9) That man was created from dust is recorded in Gen 2.
Scientific errors related to embryology are contained in the Koran. In 86:6-7 the Koran says, "He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs". This echoes the scientific error of Hippocrates who believe semen originates from all the fluid in the body, starting from the brain down the spinal chord, before passing through the kidneys and finally the testicles into the penis. (Hippocratic Writings, Penguin Classics, 1983, p. 317)
posted
The earliest complete Koran manuscript in existence in museums today are hundreds of years after Muhammad died:
The Muslim false claim:
"In other words: two of the copies of the Qur’an which were originally prepared in the time of Caliph `Uthman, are still available to us today and their texts and arrangement can be compared, by anyone who cares to, with any other copy of the Qur’an, be it in print or handwriting, from any place or period of time. They will be found to be identical." (Von Denffer, Ulum al-Qur’an, p 64)
The truth:
Although Muslims proclaim they have a Koran that dates to the time of Muhammad, the Reality is different.
Two ancient copies of Koran that are in existence are the Samarqand MSS is in Tashkent, and the MSS housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul. What many Muslim's do not know, is that because these two manuscripts were written in a script style called "Kufic", practicing Muslim scholars generally date these manuscripts no earlier than 200 years after Muhammad died. Had these two manuscripts been compiled any earlier, they would have been written in either the Ma'il or Mashq script style. John Gilchrist, in his book, "Jam' Al-Qur'an" came to this same conclusion. (John Gilchrist, Jam' Al-Qur'an, Jesus to the Muslims, 1989)
Now we do have one ancient copy of the Koran written in the Ma'il style of script, that is housed in the British Museum in London (Lings & Safadi 1976:17,20; Gilchrist 1989:16,144). But scholar Martin Lings, who was not only a practicing Muslim, but also a former curator for the manuscripts of the British Museum, dates this manuscript at 790 AD, making it the earliest. On the other hand Yasir Qadhi notes one Islamic Masters/PhD scholar who believes the Samarqand MSS is the ‘most likely candidate for the original’.
It is unknown, even by Muslims that authorities will not release photographs of the ancient Topkapi manuscript in Istanbul and so there are no known studies on it. This is why the Muslim apologist, M. Saifullah had to state "Concerning the Topkapi manuscript we are not aware of studies done it." (Who's Afraid Of Textual Criticism?, M. S. M. Saifullah, 'Abd ar-Rahman Squires & Muhammad Ghoniem) What is in this manuscript that Muslims are afraid to let the world see? After all in Qur'an 2:111 it says "Produce your proof if you are truthful."
Even the earliest fragmentary manuscripts of the Koran are all dated no earlier than 100 years after Muhammad died.
Add to this the fact that there is no archeological evidence dated at the time when Muhammad was alive, by way of artifact, manuscript or inscription has ever been found were Muhammad is actually referred to as "a prophet".
If you don’t believe me, listen to faithful Muslim, Ahmad Von Denffer, in his book, Ulum al Quran, in a chapter called, Old Manuscripts Of The Qur'an, "Most of the early original Qur'an manuscripts, complete or in sizeable fragments, that are still available to us now, are not earlier than the second century after the Hijra. [or 800 AD] The earliest copy, which was exhibited in the British Museum during the 1976 World of Islam Festival, dated from the late second century.' However, there are also a number of odd fragments of Qur'anic papyri available, which date from the first century." (Grohmann, A.: Die Entstehung des Koran und die altesten Koran- Handschriften', in: Bustan, 1961, pp. 33-8)
Scientific errors and the myth of embryology in the Koran:
In an effort to show the scientific accuracy of the Koran, Muslim's are quick to bring up the claim of embryology revealed in stunning accuracy, before man discovered for himself. Muslims love to tell the story of how professor Keith L. Moore, the former anatomist at the University of Toronto, was impressed with the Koran’s embryological information.
However many Muslim are completely unaware that all of the information in the Qur'an about embryology had already been revealed many different times, centuries before hand. Furthermore, some of the information is scientifically inaccurate.
But don't take my word for it, early Muslim doctors, like Ibn-Qayyim, were first to blow the whistle when they saw the Koranic material, mirrored a Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD. In 1983 Basim Musallam, Director of the Centre of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Cambridge concluded, "The stages of development which the Qur'an and Hadith established for believers agreed perfectly with Galen's scientific account....There is no doubt that medieval thought appreciated this agreement between the Qur'an and Galen, for Arabic science employed the same Qur'anic terms to describe the Galenic stages" (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 54) In other words when it comes to embryology the Qur'an merely echoes the scientific knowledge man had already discovered 450 years earlier.
Samuel ha-Yehudi was a 2nd century Jewish physician, and one of many with an interest in embryology . The embryo was called peri habbetten (fruit of the body) and develops as golem (formless, rolled-up thing); shefir meruqqam (embroidered foetus - shefir means amniotic sac); 'ubbar (something carried); v'alad (child); v'alad shel qayama (noble or viable child) and ben she-kallu chadashav (child whose months have been completed). (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 77)
J. Needham spent almost 60 pages in his book "A history of embryology", discussing ancient Greek, Indian and Egyptian embryology, than in less than 1 page he dismisses the entire Arabic tradition by concluding that "Arabic science ... was not of great help to embryology". After listing some of the verses in the Qur'an about embryology he dismisses them as "a seventh-century echo of Aristotle and the Ayer-veda" . (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 82), in other words a mixture of Greek and ancient Indian teachings.
And what about professor Keith L. Moore, once at the University of Toronto, who Muslims love to quote as a scientist who saw the light of the Koran? If you buy Moore’s latest sixth edition University textbook called "The developing human", he actually directs his readers to read an essay by Basim Musallam, who we just quoted. who shows that the Koran merely echoes what Greek doctor "Galen" wrote 450 years earlier. It seems Dr. Moore is not as impressed today. (B. Musallam, The human embryo in Arabic scientific and religious thought, in, G. R. Dunstan (ed.) (University of Exeter Press, 1990) The human embryo: Aristotle and the Arabic and European traditions, pp. 32-46)
An extraordinary passage from the writings of the medieval philosopher Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya shows how heavily the later Arabic writers depended upon the Greek doctors; in one continuous discourse (Ibn Qayyin (Damascus, 1971) Tuhfat: Tuhfat al mawdud bi ahkam al-mawlud, pp. 254-291) the words of Hippocrates explain the Qur'an and Hadith, and the latter are used to explain Hippocrates:
"Here is someone writing a medical account who includes Hippocrates (bold type), the Qur'an and Hadith (bold italics), commentaries on them (italics) and his own thoughts (normal type) in one and the same paragraph. Of course the intelligentsia of Muhammed's time would have been familiar with both Greek and Indian medicine: "Hippocrates said ... 'some membranes are formed at the beginning, others after the second month, and others in the third month ...' That is why God says, 'He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, by one formation after another in three darknesses'. Since each of these membranes has its own darkness, when God mentioned the stages of creation and transformation from one state to another, He also mentioned the darknesses of the membranes. Most commentators explain: 'it is the darkness of the belly, and the darkness of the womb, and the darkness of the placenta' ... Hippocrates said, 'The ears are opened, and the eyes, which are filled with a clear liquid.' The Prophet used to say, 'I worship Him Who made my face and formed it, and opened my hearing and eyesight' etc. etc"" (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 56).
The Koran says in16:4 "He has created man from a sperm-drop", but this was understood about 2000 years before the Koran, for the Bible says, "Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother." (Genesis 38:9) That man was created from dust is recorded in Gen 2.
Scientific errors related to embryology are contained in the Koran. In 86:6-7 the Koran says, "He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs". This echoes the scientific error of Hippocrates who believe semen originates from all the fluid in the body, starting from the brain down the spinal chord, before passing through the kidneys and finally the testicles into the penis. (Hippocratic Writings, Penguin Classics, 1983, p. 317)
quote:Originally posted by salama: [QUOTE]Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: [B]The prophet Muhamed is I believe alleged to have said that he hated garlic.
What..???
I'm familiar with that Hadith.He disliked the smell of garlic and asked the companions not to eat it before the prayers as it would annoy both men and angels.He also disliked lizard meat which some arab ate.
The prophet as human had his own likes and dislikes. but this doesn't mean this kind of food is haram.
posted
If I aquired HIV through a blood transfusion or some other way, I would go around f***ing every girl that wasn't an american. We have too many HIV infectants here in america. I think we need more to spread over in places like England. Yeah! That'd be the first place I'd travel if I got HIV.. To jolly ol' England mate! They need more HIV over there..
After England, I think I'd go to Ireland. I'd like to infect a few Irish girls.. Oh yeah!
Oh.. and then I'd go to Egypt
Posts: 4 | From: Houston, TX, United States | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
vincent i think your head needs to be checked out, are you sure you were not dropped on it when you were a child. i dont even want to imagine what kind of person would try to spread such a thing the world if fucked up enough, people like you need to be locked up and through away the key i just hope to god that you are sterile as we dont need people like you breeding and by the way i dont come from any of the countries you mentioned
quote:Originally posted by TDP: Yawn yawn...what an asshole!
Posts: 70 | From: australia | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
your a sicko vincent... its also a crime in the USA to deliberately infect people with HIV. Who the hell are you to judge others and give others a death sentence... may karma run over your dogma
Posts: 816 | From: On top of a dog house | Registered: Sep 2004
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Dear, Here an Advise 1-come to Egypt and that if u are not Egyptian (i don't know when u can come but let us say tomorrow)
2-learn arabic i mean the (right arabic) that would take from u (mmmmmm.... about 4 years)
3-Learn how to recitation Quran that cause arabic could be more than one meaning in the same word depend in the sentense and in the shapes above it (mmmmmm...that would take about another 2 years)
4-Read the famouse explination of Quran (Tabary, Galalein, Ibn Kaseir, El-kortoby) and that would take from u (mmmmm.. 7-10 years don't know according to your mind).
5-Bring a group of Doctors then ask them about your point that u think it is false in Quran and what its scientific explination to compare with what u read
6-When u not found anything and be sure of this versus it is right go to al-azhar or tell me to take u to it and they will accept u as a muslium after u see the mircales of quran insha'allah
but i don't know how old are u anyway islam not limited to young ppl
what u saying above:-
1-U say that quran didn't bring a new thing in the embryology and it is not a scientific evidence cause someone already know that before mohamed (PBUH). i would ask u did Quran said (here it is a scientific evidence or the muslium did that) it is not a scientific evidence for god it is for us so even someone know that before Quran so what? what that proves ?? nothing it may be prove that the musliums scientest fall in a historical error and the error not in Quran. (that if i suppose what u saying is right and i don't think so but i will review that.and if u didn't accpet this scientific evidence the Quran is filled with hunderd ot it. now explain to me this versus and how it is not scientific evidence.
the explination [1] The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder
did god say here it is a scientific evidence no the scientest saw that the moon was divided to two parts when they made a soil analysis in some parts of the moon
so how mohamed (PBUH) knew that
do u think mohamed (PBUH) invent a ship and went to the moon and then back and wrote the Quran.
2- u saying that Quran have a scientific error in the versus of swrat eltarek .about how ppl createtion . refer to my first suggestion to u to study Quran and that would not take more than 16 years to understand the versus in arabic langauge to be sure of what u writing cause i read those explination and it is filled with meaning and i don't know Abocrat theory to compare with. but if u look before this versus in same swra. versus no 1,2,3 there is a scienfitc evidence talking about astrophysics see it and try to prove it is wrong .
3-what u wrote in second post i didn't get what u want to say so please clarify but please stop pasting from another site and if u have this site give me the link and i will look at it and see what u want to show.
4-By the way to be muslium don't need this 16 years it need to work your mind and it may took 1 month if u are god mind.
Best Regards to u
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 21 December 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by Vincent: If I aquired HIV through a blood transfusion or some other way, I would go around f***ing every girl that wasn't an american. We have too many HIV infectants here in america. I think we need more to spread over in places like England. Yeah! That'd be the first place I'd travel if I got HIV.. To jolly ol' England mate! They need more HIV over there..
After England, I think I'd go to Ireland. I'd like to infect a few Irish girls.. Oh yeah!
Ok, forget " christian" - but keep "fundamentalist" sicko. Your jesus birth explanation is nice but frankly I can't be bothered with any religion but thanks anyway.
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