posted
I know many ofwore wigs but I dont think the majority did.
dont some of these styles look similar to the way ancient egyptians portrayed there hair?
Posts: 229 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jul 2007
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wow fascinating! I always thought most of it was natural. but then again. This looks kinda similar to this
Im sorry for posting this i didn't know it was already discussed before and I coudnt find anything on the search engine. i know you guys hat that.
Posts: 229 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
^ It's okay. This topic hasn't been discussed much, only a few times. It's only when a topic has been discussed too many times that it becomes annoying to create a thread about it again.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Somali have been converted to Islam hundred years ago, Somali women don't have that kind of hairstyle unlike many East African women.Bear in mind that Somali are among the most devout Muslims in East Africa for hundred years...
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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^ What you say makes no sense. Just because a people are Muslim does not mean that the women no longer wear their traditional hairstyles. It's true that as Muslim women, they wear hijab, but that doesn't mean they entirely stopped styling their hair or the custom of braiding. In fact, I have seen many pictures of Somali women wearing not only their traditional hairstyles but even their traditional pre-Islamic attire on special occasions.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Trust me...their hairstyle has been modified...if you look at Somali from Ogaden...they are more authentic in term of hair style...it's pretty much similar to the Afar: Muslim cover their heads...but Afar are less conservative than Somali, they kept their African traditions...Beside that Somali are more mixed with Arab Yemeni, so they kind of lost a little bit their African heritage compare to the Afar who are usually darker...
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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You are right but your post doesn't contradict what I said they are the most conservative Muslims and are quick to flee from their African heritage compare to other East Africans...there is a large amount of proofs in ES that you witnessed...Oromo who are muslims, Tigre people don't claim an Arab origin unlike some clans in Somalia:Darod and Issaq who constitute like 40% of all Somalis...Somali have more close relationships with Yemeni than any other group to the point than 2 main clans claim an Arab origin...unlike most muslim East Africans...anyway genetics is there to prove it...They have the highest amount of West Asian genes among cushitic speakers...By the way they are a minority among cushitic speakers, so what we observe with Somali is not common among other cushitic speaking people of East Africa...I don't make any judgment, it's their history... P.S: Why do you think an Ethiopian who must be Amhara(Yom) view himself as a Black African and Yonis who is a Somali Darod doesn't want to be associate with the Black attribute but is OK with the African attribute...even though 99.9999% of human beings view him as a Black African including Yemeni(Somali are sometime called Enta Himar Aswad: you are a black donkey, that's in Yemen). Ask yourself this question. This is not him, it's cultural, he's not alone...a lot of Somali, elders , young people think like him...that reminds me of some guys in Sudan...How do you reconcile the fact that other native Africans view you as Black and your point of view...That's not Yonis point of view it's the point of view of many Somali, especially the ones from the North: Darod and Issaq who are the only Somalis who claim some Arab ancestry...So what Yonis says it's mainly a Northern Somali point of view....
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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^ You seem to be confusing Islamization with Arabization. Just because a people convert to Islam does not mean they claim Arab ancestry or adopt Arab culture save those elements prescribed by Islamic practices. There are many Muslims, not just in Africa, but around the world who still maintain their old traditions. The Somalis are no exception.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Google up Darod, Issaq...they constitute like 40% of Somali...please do that, do some research...don't be lazy...Yonis is Darod...
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Djehuti ignore him, of his 375 posts 374 contain the word Somali accompanied by theories on how they think,sleep,internet,walk,dress
their full of his personal emotions and their old and boring
about the Saints myths i think my compatriot makes a strong point regarding these myths when he compares them with other Somali myths;
There are 114 historic mountains scattered in the Doi belt that have religious significance to the Reewiin Society. On the top of each mountain there are burial sites for holy men where annual pilgrimages,syaro are still made by the local people. The names of these holy men are Islamic and Arabic like owul Qasim at the peak of Bur Haybe, next to owul Qasim there is the tomb of Abdulqadir Al-Jilani and not far from those two tombs, there is a cave site for Abka Eden iyo Abbay Haawa(Adam and Eve). About 60 miles Northeast of Bur Haybe there is Bur Gerwiine; there are the tombs of the four holy Ahmeds and holy woman Edeegow known to the local people as Affarta Emed Osobka yaala Abay Edeegow Shanaayti(the four Ahmeds and Edeego that are burried in the Virgin land). It is also striking to find in the interriver region the popular cult of women saints which is alien to the male chauvinists of the world of Islam. In addition to Abay Edeegow of Bur Gerwiine there are the shrines of Imbiyow Hassan Diinow in Abdurug and Dada Ma Siti in Barawa just to mention a few. Evidently the number of the historic mountains is drawn from the 114 Q'uranic surahs(or chapters). The local tradition holds that these mountains migrated from Arabia with their shrines- Ali Jimale Ahmed -Islam in Somali History: Fact and Fiction
Saints migrating to Somalia?...well since there at it, heck they might aswell take their own mountains and shrines with them in the process eh?
Posts: 275 | From: .. | Registered: Aug 2006
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First of all Darod and Issaq were pure somalis even though some later muslim clerics tried to make them arabs so to come closer to the prophet. But they were somali patriarchs, you should take these islamists with a grain of salt. For the most time things are based on religious issues, i even hear indonesians and chinese muslims on north east china claim descendants from Yemen, so just to claim relationship to the prophet.
I personnaly don't buy any of this BS since i'm not that religious. But i can trace my ancestry back quite far so i don't discredit it totally like the sub-clan of mine. I can for instance trace names of my paternal lineage atleast untill the 15th century using 40 years as interval betweeen two names (generation). This is something we learn through our grandmother when we are very young, like my grandfathers name his fathers name, his father's father's name etc untill the point it's not known, some can make it to the 14th-13th century. It can also connect different families, like when we intersect through same ancestral siblings and during which period, very effective. Many of these are written in arabo/somali script, but majority are memorized through grandmothers, and these grandmas always do their duty correctly.
quote:Yonis who is a Somali Darod doesn't want to be associate with the Black attribute but is OK with the African attribute...even though 99.9999% of human beings view him as a Black African including Yemeni(Somali are sometime called Enta Himar Aswad: you are a black donkey, that's in Yemen).
Never heard of "Enta Himar Aswad". You think i give a damn on what Yemeni call somalis? Who are they, fucking little Eritrea whooped their ass on the two days war where they had to appeal to the Hague court in Europe so to intervine against the "Eritrean agression".
If Somalia as a united force went to war with Yemen i'm quite sure that land would be barren today. They might feel we owe them since southern Moqdishu somalis flee to their country due to the insecurity and turmoil there, but they know in the future they are gonna be very dependent on the horn when things settles.
Thats why they are already planning to build a bridge between Aden and Djibouti (across the gulf of aden). Most of the finance will come from Yemen and these oil rich countries, in particular Dubai.
quote:P.S: Why do you think an Ethiopian who must be Amhara(Yom) view himself as a Black African and Yonis who is a Somali Darod doesn't want to be associate with the Black
Why should i identify as "black"? I doubt even Yom himself identifies as "black". Why would he, i see no logic in it? Do you as kikuyu identify as "black" outside this board, I really don't think so? on second thought maybe you would.
Posts: 1420 | Registered: May 2005
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Ask any guy from Djibouti who went to Yemen for enough time or lived there. They are very familiar with that term, but I think it's just a teasing... P.S: I'm not a kikuyu(your obsession with Bantu), I don't view myself as Black within an African context, but I feel Black, view myself as Black and I think it's healthy since 99.999% of the world view me as Black. But I understand that in some cultures including Yonis and maybe others in Horn it is not a well defined identity. Which is quite strange since their lighter neighbors (Yemeni) view them as Black. I'm not blaming anybody like Rasol, it's part of the culture, and I think your right, but there are few Ethiopians that I know who are more at ease with being viewed as Black compare to Somali. But Yonis is correct, there is also a bunch who don't want to be associated with that term. Maybe it's related to the hue of skin, since many Horners are lighter than the average African. I don't know.
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
^ You guys are beginning to stray off topic here. And everyone is right about you AFRICA -- you do make generalizations and allegations about African peoples, especially Somalis. The Somali posters in here have already called you out on that. I suggest you quit while you can. `
quote:Originally posted by Macawiis_Bile_Nigiish: ...about the Saints myths i think my compatriot makes a strong point regarding these myths when he compares them with other Somali myths;
There are 114 historic mountains scattered in the Doi belt that have religious significance to the Reewiin Society. On the top of each mountain there are burial sites for holy men where annual pilgrimages,syaro are still made by the local people. The names of these holy men are Islamic and Arabic like owul Qasim at the peak of Bur Haybe, next to owul Qasim there is the tomb of Abdulqadir Al-Jilani and not far from those two tombs, there is a cave site for Abka Eden iyo Abbay Haawa(Adam and Eve). About 60 miles Northeast of Bur Haybe there is Bur Gerwiine; there are the tombs of the four holy Ahmeds and holy woman Edeegow known to the local people as Affarta Emed Osobka yaala Abay Edeegow Shanaayti(the four Ahmeds and Edeego that are burried in the Virgin land). It is also striking to find in the interriver region the popular cult of women saints which is alien to the male chauvinists of the world of Islam. In addition to Abay Edeegow of Bur Gerwiine there are the shrines of Imbiyow Hassan Diinow in Abdurug and Dada Ma Siti in Barawa just to mention a few. Evidently the number of the historic mountains is drawn from the 114 Q'uranic surahs(or chapters). The local tradition holds that these mountains migrated from Arabia with their shrines- Ali Jimale Ahmed -Islam in Somali History: Fact and Fiction
Saints migrating to Somalia?...well since there at it, heck they might aswell take their own mountains and shrines with them in the process eh?
This whole 'Saints' tradition is very much a pre-Islamic African custom. The same practice is found in rural parts of Egypt and Sudan, where the people would make pilgrimages to the gravesites of these saints. There is one graveyard of saints in northern Sudan, where newly married women would make a pilgrimage to the graves, especially of female saints, and sit on them and pray for fertility.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:This whole 'Saints' tradition is very much a pre-Islamic African custom.
quote:The names of these holy men are Islamic and Arabic like owul Qasim at the peak of Bur Haybe, next to owul Qasim there is the tomb of Abdulqadir Al-Jilani and not far from those two tombs, there is a cave site for Abka Eden iyo Abbay Haawa(Adam and Eve).
You are confusing us Djehuti with your generalizations.
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
^ It is not confusing if you know about cultural evolution. Many traditional customs and practices often become synchronized with new or introduced customs and beliefs. Hence many ancient African traditions are synchronized into introduced Christian or Islamic practices and often adopt Christian or Muslim connotations.
What I said is not a generalization but fact, unlike YOU.
Now, are you going to quit with the silliness and get back to the topic of this thread or what? Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nefar: I know many ofwore wigs but I dont think the majority did.
dont some of these styles look similar to the way ancient egyptians portrayed there hair?
From what I have seen many Ancient Egyptian skulls have their hair intact, so while they did wear wigs I don't think it was all that customary to favor wearing a wig with a shaven scalp over natural hair.
Does anyone have a source for the Ancient Egyptians preferring wigs OVER natural hair?
The women in those pictures appear to have natural braids and hairstyles to me.
Saying the Ancient Egyptians wore extensions and wigs on occasion and saying it was their custom to shave their head and wear false hair all the time are too very different statements.
Posts: 1203 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ Most Egyptians shaved their heads clean and wore wigs for several reasons, the main one was hygenal such as lice prevention. Another reason was for comfort-- it feels better to have a shaven head in the hot climate. And another reason is hairstyling convenience-- its easier to change wigs then to spend long periods having your hair dressed.
But other than that there were exceptions of Egyptians keeping their natural hair. Such as the gentleman below.
There are even texts describing Egyptians getting their natural hair plaited and dressed.
quote:Originally posted by Nefar: wow fascinating! I always thought most of it was natural. but then again. This looks kinda similar to this
Yes they look similar, but notice the Egyptian women have hair that appears to go past their shoulders. In actuality most Egyptians usually don't have hair that long which is why they either wore wigs or extensions.
And according to Ausar, there are women in rural Egypt who today still wear extensions.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
There is perhaps some relation, but it's not that close, given that Ancient Egyptians mainly wore wigs, while wigs are basically unheard of in East Africa (aside from baboon mane wigs worn by some Oromo groups by the warrior class and Oromo-influenced Shewans).
A possible one would be in the hairstyle of children. Ancient Egyptians shaved the head save for a lock of hair on the head. It tended to be on the side and braided, however, while among Ethiopians & Eritreans, it is more commonly at the front and less often braided (braided styles do exist, though; other styles include a mohawk, three tufts of hair w/one in front and one on each side, etc.). Both Semitic and Cushitic highlanders have this style; although most Afars braid their hair and keep it long, I've noticed that some have related styles, but with braids around the side. The Afars with this style seem to be the closest to the ancient Egyptian one. I'm not sure if this is a case of choice, or a subgroup of the Afar.
Statue of Ancient Egyptian youth w/sidelock:
Afar girls in Ethiopia:
Afar boy with braided lock:
Oromo girl w/ braided lock:
Sidama boy:
Amhara boy:
(there are more examples of each style for each ethnic group in the highlands + Afar, but only 8 images per post allowed)
As for long hair & adults, braids are typical. This is the northern Tigrayan style:
Ancient Aksumite depiction:
-------------------- "Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega. Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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BTW, I consider myself Black, but I consider myself Ethiopian first, of course. Dislike for the term among some Horners isn't solely due to variations in skin color.
BTW, here's another image of the same small Afar village (Kesem, Ethiopia) with a child with locks & other children vs. adults w/Afros:
The little girl sort of looks like Gallagher with her haircut and reddish-brown (not Henna) hair
posted
Wow. Those are really lovely pictures. Hair styles in Egypt, as you know, go way back. Here are some below in the red blocks in pictures 4 through 7:
quote:Yonis:I doubt even Yom himself identifies as "black". Why would he, i see no logic in it?
quote:Yom:BTW, I consider myself Black, but I consider myself Ethiopian first, of course. Dislike for the term among some Horners isn't solely due to variations in skin color.
On top of not being black, Yonis is also a liar. By the way Yom, when you say "isn't solely due to variations in skin color." What else might cause the dislike is it the fact that term is associated with broad faced African? Because there was an incident in the States during segregation when few Somali didn't want to sit in the back of the bus because they didn't view themselves as Black. Well at the end, although genuinely surprised, they had to sit in the back.
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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The women in those pictures appear to have natural braids and hairstyles to me.
Saying the Ancient Egyptians wore extensions and wigs on occasion and saying it was their custom to shave their head and wear false hair all the time are too very different statements.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Most Egyptians shaved their heads clean and wore wigs ...
But other than that there were exceptions of Egyptians keeping their natural hair.
...
In actuality most Egyptians usually don't have hair that long which is why they either wore wigs or extensions.
quote:Originally posted by Yom: ... given that Ancient Egyptians mainly wore wigs, ...
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Africa: Because there was an incident in the States during segregation when few Somali didn't want to sit in the back of the bus because they didn't view themselves as Black. Well at the end, although genuinely surprised, they had to sit in the back.
Source please? There was no significant somali community in the states during the 60's, let alone in the southern states with jim crow laws and such Now who's a liar?
quote:alTakruri: I've read all your opinions but so far haven't seen any documentation to back up the premise of an all pervasive wig wearing Egyptian society.
Well maybe not all but atleast the elite wore wigs, also the commoners popularized this practice.
Egyptian wigs
quote: Wigs, which the Egyptians were very fond of, not only allowed for ornate hair decorating, but also helped the ancient Egyptians with cleanliness, protected the (shaved) scalp from the sun and kept the head cool and also prevented that modern-day scourge—head lice, according to Fletcher. She writes, "Our research has turned up the world’s oldest head lice, which bedeviled an Egyptian from Abydos about 5000 years ago."
posted
We know they wore wigs. Many cultures wore and wear wigs. Shoot, it's even a booming industry today. That doesn't mean all Egypt went baldy and then over domed with a wig.
Hair allows for ornate hair decorating. Hair protects the natural hair growing scalp from the sun. Wooly hair permits ventilation and cooler than straight hair. Why would a wig be cooler than nappy/kinky hair? African lice are adapted to traverse oval cross sectioned hair.
So why Egypt a baldy nation while the rest of the continent bearing the same conditions isn't?
I need documentation indicative of Egypt being a baldy nation preferably from the egyptians themselves.
Notice the art of Egypt's soldiery at the barber's. They obviously have their natural hair going on.
And this royal lady is having her braids done. If she was a wiggy why would she sit there when the wig could be put on a dummy head and braided? Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Myra Wysinger: Boy with Plait Himba, Namibia, Africa (see note at bottom)
Photo from the book Hair in African Art and Culture, Edit by Roy Sieber and Frank Herreman, The Museum for African Art, New York, 2000. Photo dated: Anneliese Scherz, 1940's
Royal Child with Plait; New Kingdom Ancient Egypt
NOTE:
The Republic of Namibia is a country in southwestern Africa, on the Atlantic coast. It is bordered by Angola and Zambia to the north, Botswana to the east, and South Africa to the south.
The San are generally assumed to have been the earliest inhabitants of the region. San rock paintings are among the oldest forms of art found on the African continent.
posted
AFRICA I, will you please stop with your generalized nonsense and ridiculous claims, and get back to the topic!!
As for Yom, excellent pics illustrating the commonality in Egyptian children's hairstyles with East Africans. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The Himba definitely have locked hair similar to ancient Egyptian youths, but the distance seems too great to make any cultural connection by way of transmittance or common inheritance.
Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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^ Perhaps the common origin between them lies in the distant prehistoric past.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Yom: There is perhaps some relation, but it's not that close, given that Ancient Egyptians mainly wore wigs, while wigs are basically unheard of in East Africa...
They maybe unheard of in East Africa, but they are a common cultural item in West Africa! Even Chiek Anta Diop gives excellent examples of wig attire from among his people, the Wolof of Senegal. I have seen several other pictures of various other peoples from West Africa bearing wigs. Many of these wigs are made from plant material and give the wearer the same 'straight haired' look seen in ancient depictions of Egyptians in wig attire.
Does anyone here have any of these pics, either from Diop or some other source?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Yom: There is perhaps some relation, but it's not that close, given that Ancient Egyptians mainly wore wigs, while wigs are basically unheard of in East Africa...
They maybe unheard of in East Africa, but they are a common cultural item in West Africa! Even Chiek Anta Diop gives excellent examples of wig attire from among his people, the Wolof of Senegal. I have seen several other pictures of various other peoples from West Africa bearing wigs. Many of these wigs are made from plant material and give the wearer the same 'straight haired' look seen in ancient depictions of Egyptians in wig attire.
Does anyone here have any of these pics, either from Diop or some other source?
Maybe wig-wearing is a Saharan custom.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
^ My thoughts exactly. Given that these wigs were made of soft organic fibers that are perishable, it's understandable that remains of such items are almost impossible to find.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Hey, Myra! It seems like we've been missing you a little while.
But as far as this topic goes, do you have any photos of West African wigs-- either those examples from Diop or more recent photos of West African groups sporting wigs, preferably both??
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Hey, Myra! It seems like we've been missing you a little while.
But as far as this topic goes, do you have any photos of West African wigs-- either those examples from Diop or more recent photos of West African groups sporting wigs, preferably both??
I went on vacation for a month to Los Angeles. Thanks for asking. Good luck in your studies.
I do have some interesting photos of coiffures from Africa.
Woman with coiffure in the form of a crest with ornaments and comb. Igbo, Nigeria, West Africa
Two women whose braids have been lengthened to their ankles through the use of sinew (eefipa) extensions, Mbalantu of Wambo group, Namibia, Africa (South Africa)
Photo: M.Schettler, 1940's
Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Two girls from Tigray, Northern Ethiopia with traditional hairstyles.
-------------------- "Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega. Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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What's striking about Africans, is although they are the most diverse linguistically, physically and culturally, I noticed some commonality in the rasta hairstyle and other hairstyles, whether among the Himba, AE, Afars, Massai, Tutsi, Fulani and some other groups, although they all live in many areas of Africa, would it be possible that it developed thousand years ago in the Sahara where Africans dispersed?
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I know of several good examples of traditional West African wigs, including the 'straight hair' looking ones from several books, but I have yet to have them scanned.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ Wow, Agluza. Where do you get these great comparative photos?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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What you say makes no sense. Just because a people are Muslim does not mean that the women no longer wear their traditional hairstyles. It's true that as Muslim women, they wear hijab, but that doesn't mean they entirely stopped styling their hair or the custom of braiding. In fact, I have seen many pictures of Somali women wearing not only their traditional hairstyles but even their traditional pre-Islamic attire on special occasions.
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`![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Now who's a liar?
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AFRICA I, will you please stop with your generalized nonsense and ridiculous claims, and get back to the topic!!
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