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{Thought, thats common knowleadge that the kouri statues and doric columns possibly derived from ancient Egyptian models. Whats contested is the Egyptian origin of the philosophy of the Greeks,and people making claims Aristotle plgarized his works from Egyptian works}
Thought Writes:
I am not certain anything is common knowledge with Horemheb. Again my position rests more on the African influences on Greek culture in general, not on individual persons.
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Josephus wrote his work, "Against Apion", and he severely chastized those who deify the Greek culture and hold it up as the Preeminent. Here is what he said.
. And now, in the first place, I cannot but greatly wonder at those men, who suppose that we must attend to none but Grecians, when we are inquiring about the most ancient facts, and must inform ourselves of their truth from them only, while we must not believe ourselves nor other men; for I am convinced that the very reverse is the truth of the case. I mean this, - if we will not be led by vain opinions, but will make inquiry after truth from facts themselves; for they will find that almost all which concerns the Greeks happened not long ago; nay, one may say, is of yesterday only. I speak of the building of their cities, the inventions of their arts, and the description of their laws; and as for their care about the writing down of their histories, it is very near the last thing they set about. However, they acknowledge themselves so far, that they were the Egyptians, the Chaldeans, and the Phoenicians (for I will not now reckon ourselves among them) that have preserved the memorials of the most ancient and most lasting traditions of mankind; for almost all these nations inhabit such countries as are least subject to destruction from the world about them; and these also have taken especial care to have nothing omitted of what was [remarkably] done among them; but their history was esteemed sacred, and put into public tables, as written by men of the greatest wisdom they had among them. But as for the place where the Grecians inhabit, ten thousand destructions have overtaken it, and blotted out the memory of former actions; so that they were ever beginning a new way of living, and supposed that every one of them was the origin of their new state. It was also late, and with difficulty, that they came to know the letters they now use; for those who would advance their use of these letters to the greatest antiquity pretend that they learned them from the Phoenicians and from Cadmus; yet is nobody able to demonstrate that they have any writing preserved from that time, neither in their temples, nor in any other public monuments. This appears, because the time when those lived who went to the Trojan war, so many years afterward, is in great doubt, and great inquiry is made, whether the Greeks used their letters at that time; and the most prevailing opinion, and that nearest the truth, is, that their present way of using those letters was unknown at that time. However, there is not any writing which the Greeks agree to he genuine among them ancienter than Homer's Poems, who must plainly he confessed later than the siege of Troy; nay, the report goes, that even he did not leave his poems in writing, but that their memory was preserved in songs, and they were put together afterward, and that this is the reason of such a number of variations as are found in them. (3) As for those who set themselves about writing their histories, I mean such as Cadmus of Miletus, and Acusilaus of Argos, and any others that may be mentioned as succeeding Acusilaus, they lived but a little while before the Persian expedition into Greece. But then for those that first introduced philosophy, and the consideration of things celestial and divine among them, such as Pherceydes the Syrian, and Pythagoras, and Thales, all with one consent agree, that they learned what they knew of the Egyptians and Chaldeans, and wrote but little And these are the things which are supposed to be the oldest of all among the Greeks; and they have much ado to believe that the writings ascribed to those men are genuine.
3. How can it then be other than an absurd thing, for the Greeks to be so proud, and to vaunt themselves to be the only people that are acquainted with antiquity, and that have delivered the true accounts of those early times after an accurate manner? Nay, who is there that cannot easily gather from the Greek writers themselves, that they knew but little on any good foundation when they set to write, but rather wrote their histories from their own conjectures? Accordingly, they confute one another in their own books to purpose, and are not ashamed. to give us the most contradictory accounts of the same things; and I should spend my time to little purpose, if I should pretend to teach the Greeks that which they know better than I already, what a great disagreement there is between Hellanicus and Acusilaus about their genealogies; in how many eases Acusilaus corrects Hesiod: or after what manner Ephorus demonstrates Hellanicus to have told lies in the greatest part of his history; as does Timeus in like manner as to Ephorus, and the succeeding writers do to Timeus, and all the later writers do to Herodotus (3) nor could Timeus agree with Antiochus and Philistius, or with Callias, about the Sicilian History, no more than do the several writers of the Athide follow one another about the Athenian affairs; nor do the historians the like, that wrote the Argolics, about the affairs of the Argives. And now what need I say any more about particular cities and smaller places, while in the most approved writers of the expedition of the Persians, and of the actions which were therein performed, there are so great differences? Nay, Thucydides himself is accused of some as writing what is false, although he seems to have given us the exactest history of the affairs of his own time. (4)
The Greek culture ought to be demythologized from the minds of Westerners at all cost.
[This message has been edited by BigMix (edited 21 March 2005).]
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Super car. Imhotep did NOT transmit ANY knowledge to the Greeks. Even the sites you posted did not claim that. All of the Greek work in medicine was done BEFORE the invasion and conquest of Egypt, which came late in the classical period. We do not even know what Imhotep knew and neither did the Greeks. This is the kind of careless scholarship that characterizes those who try to make this Greek/Egyptian connection.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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What is careless is the Professor's attempt to debate by misdirection.
Supercar stated:
quote:the Greeks even worshipped Egyptian gods at their own free will and admiration shatters your ideas about Greece. Do the research on Imhotep, the God of Medicine, and you'll see what I mean
Prof. H responded:
quote: The Greeks did not worship Egyptian gods SC, thats crap
Since it appears that you can't do a search on your own, start with the above links. If you want a list on this, I'll gladly provide you one.
Professor H responds:
quote:Super car. Imhotep did NOT transmit ANY knowledge to the Greeks. Even the sites you posted did not claim that. . This is the kind of careless scholarship that characterizes those who try to make this Greek/Egyptian connection.
What was originally at issue was whether the Greeks worshipped Imhotep as a God as documented by Supercar:
Worshipped widely throughout Egypt, he even had a flourishing cult in Greece where he was identified with Asclepius, another deified man and the god of healing.
Professor H cannot counter this fact [or any other] and so attempts to deflect with a different argument about specific medical knowledge of Imhotep passed on to the Greeks, which was not the point in contention to begin with.
Sloppy work Professor. And typical of you I might add.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 21 March 2005).]
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The Greeks did travel, to say that Greece could only have been significantly influenced by the Egyptians after they conquered Egypt is an erroneous assumption.
Brazil is influenced by America and Brazil has never been invaded by America.
What is careless is the Professor's attempt to debate by misdirection.
Supercar stated: What was originally at issue was whether the Greeks worshipped Imhotep as a God as documented by Supercar:
Worshipped widely throughout Egypt, he even had a flourishing cult in Greece where he was identified with Asclepius, another deified man and the god of healing.
Professor H cannot counter this fact [or any other] and so attempts to deflect with a different argument about specific medical knowledge of Imhotep passed on to the Greeks, which was not the point in contention to begin with.
Sloppy work Professor. And typical of you I might add.
Covered appropriately enough; I couldn't have put it better.
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Super Car said that Inhotep was deified after the conquest. The sources he gave said the same thing. If he is implying that Inhotep influenced Greece then how? Where? We don't have any idea what Inhotep knew? How in the world did he influence the frickin Greeks....? That he had a cult based on an Egyptian myth does not mean he was worshiped by the Greeks in general. Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Super Car said that Inhotep was deified after the conquest. The sources he gave said the same thing. If he is implying that Inhotep influenced Greece then how? Where? We don't have any idea what Inhotep knew? How in the world did he influence the frickin Greeks....? That he had a cult based on an Egyptian myth does not mean he was worshiped by the Greeks in general.
You have truly lost it, haven't you? You are saying that ancient Egyptians day dreamed about the Greek word "Imouthes", whom they identified with Asclepius. LOL
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Super Car...you are nearly incoherent....Imhotep a man about who very little is known. In the area of medicine almost nothing of what he knew is known, not to us , not to the Greeks. Either he influenced the Greeks or he did not....is that a hard concept for you to grasp??? IF HE DID,,,then how? That is the subject of this thread. You have been making the ignorant claim that Greek culture was influenced by AE. Now either show me how Imhotep influenced the Greeks or drop the argument. Its just more mindless crap used to justify a position that is 'looney tunes.'
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Super Car...you are nearly incoherent....Imhotep a man about who very little is known. In the area of medicine almost nothing of what he knew is known, not to us , not to the Greeks. Either he influenced the Greeks or he did not....is that a hard concept for you to grasp??? IF HE DID,,,then how? That is the subject of this thread. You have been making the ignorant claim that Greek culture was influenced by AE. Now either show me how Imhotep influenced the Greeks or drop the argument. Its just more mindless crap used to justify a position that is 'looney tunes.'
If you can open up that narrow mind of yours for once, and ask yourself the following question, you'll perhaps do yourself some service:
Why would the Greeks identify Imouthes (as they called him) with Asclepius, if they didn't know about him? Just because a lonely reactionary such as yourself *today* don't know much about him, doesn't mean that the Ancient folks didn't.
Horemheb, do you ever bother to read. It is apparent that you lack knowledge of both the Greeks and the Kemetians. Have you ever even read about Imouthes/Imhotep, other than the links I had provided earlier? I think not!
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