posted
So DNATribes has extended Africa into Arabia. I AM WAY AHEAD OF THEM. Extending Africa into Arabia then placing EEF IN Arabia. Slick.
Southern Arabia has always been Bantu Territory(SSA). North Arabia is the Sahara.
Don’t believe me?! The pictures!!.
Quote: "Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion, because there is a substantial fraction of ***UNINFORMATIVE** haplotypes in both samples" [QB][/QUOTE]
Arabians are 56% African. The other major compoenet is Indus Valley. ie the Harrapans. The Harrapans carry major EEF. Sources cited already. Indigneous Arabians are Africans.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yemeni has been occupied by SSA like people since the Paleolithic. Northern Arabia and the Levant by pre-Amazigh like poeple. Arabia is setup like continental Africa. That explains the morphology of SSA and North African types of the Natufians. The genetics, Morphology and geography makes sense.
===== Quote from the paper : - However, ******Yemeni****** sequences, IN CONTRAST to their clustering together with Ethiopian and Egyptian populations in the MDS plot (fig. 3), show GREATER AFFILIATION to haplotypes detected in Mozambique. The haplotype sharing with Mozambique accounts for 23% of the total and 49% of haplogroup L0–L5 lineages among Yemenis. The lack of M and N lineages in the Mozambique sample is the ONLY apparent factor that separates it from Yemenis in the MDS plot. It should be noted here that the percentage of shared lineages between Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion, because there is a substantial fraction of uninformative haplotypes in both samples. These include either matches or the lack of matches, both in northeastern and southeastern African populations, that probably reflect the incomplete sampling of Africa. Compared with Bantu speakers from southeastern Africa, the Ethiopian contribution to the Yemeni mtDNA pool can be considered relatively minor, since the shared haplotypes account for just 9% of the total variation.
=== the Ethiopian contribution to the Yemeni mtDNA pool can be considered relatively minor!!!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
To the Lurkers - what they are saying here is – once the sub-clades of the sex-related DNA hg-M and N is removed from the analysis, Yemeni are essentially Sub-Saharan Africans. This corroborates what DNATribes observed with autosomal SNP/AIM, that EEF met pre-SSA population occupying Arabia. Further, As stated above the Mazambique haplotypes are very similar to Yemeni BUT there are NOT informative, meaning, they SHARE the same source population. Neither are the ancestral population of each other. . Of course all this nullifies the so-called Swahali “slave trade”. LOL!!!!
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
HA! HA! HA! Yeah! Yeah! Ostrich head in the Sand Syndrome.
Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion! Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion! Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion!
Quote: "Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion, because there is a substantial fraction of ***UNINFORMATIVE** haplotypes in both samples" [/QUOTE]
quote:Originally posted by Manu: [QB] The Mozambique associated haplotypes are only due to the slave trade. Nothing else.
Why do you want to claim people who enslaved your kind en masse? Is this some sort of Stockholm Syndrome?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am sensing frantic desperation on your part. You started posting pictures to make a point. When a fraud runs out of ideas they resort to pictures, many are fake. Manu are afraud also?
Do me…no…do lurkers a favor. What is the source of the picture? Did you get it off a racist blog?
It reminds me of the picture Lioness posted awhile back which I disassembled. Posting pictures of “modern Turkish Arabs” slaving Africans does nothng for me. Really. Can you verify the authencity of the picture?
Is this on display in a Museum, Library , anywhere? Just curious.
Lioness can you post that picture of the child being sold in the Yemeni slave Market?
quote:Originally posted by Manu: Slave trade ancestry is not native to Arabia.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
You've mentioned running genomes through ADMIXTURE yesterday. I'm looking for someone with expertise in that area for a project you might be interested in given our discussion. Are you skilled with such software?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
Based on these analyses, we can propose a model for the spread of west Eurasian ancestry in southern and eastern Africa as follows. First, a large-scale movement of people from west Eurasia into Ethiopia around 3,000 y ago (perhaps from southern Arabia and associated with the D’mt kingdom and the arrival of Ethiosemitic languages ) resulted in the dispersal of west Eurasian ancestry throughout eastern Africa. This was then followed by a migration of an admixed population (perhaps pastoralists related to speakers of Khoe–Kwadi languages) from eastern Africa to southern Africa, with admixture occurring ∼1,500 y ago. Advances in genotyping DNA from archaeological samples may allow aspects of this model to be directly tested.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Yemeni has been occupied by SSA like people since the Paleolithic. Northern Arabia and the Levant by pre-Amazigh like poeple. Arabia is setup like continental Africa. That explains the morphology of SSA and North African types of the Natufians. The genetics, Morphology and geography makes sense.
===== Quote from the paper : - However, ******Yemeni****** sequences, IN CONTRAST to their clustering together with Ethiopian and Egyptian populations in the MDS plot (fig. 3), show GREATER AFFILIATION to haplotypes detected in Mozambique. The haplotype sharing with Mozambique accounts for 23% of the total and 49% of haplogroup L0–L5 lineages among Yemenis. The lack of M and N lineages in the Mozambique sample is the ONLY apparent factor that separates it from Yemenis in the MDS plot. It should be noted here that the percentage of shared lineages between Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion, because there is a substantial fraction of uninformative haplotypes in both samples. These include either matches or the lack of matches, both in northeastern and southeastern African populations, that probably reflect the incomplete sampling of Africa. Compared with Bantu speakers from southeastern Africa, the Ethiopian contribution to the Yemeni mtDNA pool can be considered relatively minor, since the shared haplotypes account for just 9% of the total variation.
=== the Ethiopian contribution to the Yemeni mtDNA pool can be considered relatively minor!!!
Late to the thread. So you are saying that sub-Saharan lineages in Arabia are not all due to the "slave trade" (cue marching unfortunates under hot sun), but go back for tens of millennia? (What's that paper cite again?)
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
But before you go. Can you help us all out? What is the source of that picture of those slaves?
Also I just finished reading the paper YOU posted on the Soqotra Cerny Et al. Being a "dumb ass" you did not read it before you posted it. Didn't you? SMH
I will break it down later.
@ Z-Man. The thread and paper is on ESR. You contributed to the thread. By Anastacia(sp).
quote:Originally posted by Manu: I'm out.
@xyyman you are just beyond retarded.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
@ Swenet. A better project will be to get hold of someone who can use software to process haplotypes. Many of the data packets are freely available on line. Example – This Soqotra paper Manu just referenced will be a great project to compare haplotypes with comtemporary populations. Some of the hg-L found in the Soqotra are unqiue, meaning this African line is very old. Just as what I referenced above. Meaning it is not found in continental Africa.
But more importantly is the yDNA J* found in the Soqotra populations. J* is the highest followed by hg-E (African). It looks like R-V88 is present also. J* has highest frequency in Sudan and mainland Yemen, Nubia region and Turkey. Based upon haplotypes the Hadrawat grouped with SSA. I will post more when I get time.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^OK will recheck that thread. Go get em man.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think that software thing is good, dienekes and all teh Euros use it, its time that we did. I am fully back and at full strength
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thinking African DNA in Arabia (Levant) is new is absurd and ridiculous.
Oh! While researching Yemen. Here is something I came across. To those who question - Arabia is an extension of Africa!!! It has always known. DNATribes is not disclosing anything new. They are confirming what I have been saying 3 years now. Arabia is an extension of Africa. How inprotant are the Bediouns.
Zanetti et al AUG2014
Quote:
The results indicate SIGNIFICANT genetic differences between Bedouins and General Jordanians (p= 0.038) from the 18 markers. Whereas Bedouins show a close genetic proximity to North African, General Jordanians appear genetically as more similar to other Middle East populations. In general, the data of this study are consistent with the hypothesis that Bedouins have had an important role in the peopling of Jordan and constitute the ****ORIGINAL*** substrate of the current population.
However, migration into Jordan in recent years likely has contributed to the diversity among current Jordanian population groups.
---
Think Ottoman Turks as the new migrants(J2)
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
AFRO-ASIATIC URHEIMAT WAS ACCAD AND SUMERIA. AFAR JEWISH BIBLICAL NAME= OPHIR The GOLD OF OPHIR(Job 28:16,psalms 45:9,prov 1:9) was the most valued gold in ancient times.The location of ophir is eritrea which used to be afar(ophir) region before they were displaced by TIGRAY(HIMYARITES),biblical name HAVILLAH migrating from yemen,before yemen they used to live near afghanistan,later to syria near TIGRIS RIVER.SABAEANS were proto-maasai,they influenced the culture of afar,somali(dedan) and oromo(sheba) people whom were colonised by sabaeans while in yemen.
AMHARA BIBLICAL NAME HATTU/HITTITES egyptology name SEA PEOPLE THEY entered libya as sea people,migrated to meroe later to modern ethiopia shoa region.they joined forces with tigray axumites.
sea people warrior amhara warrior
the sea people headress,sword,spear,round shield is exactly the ones used by amhara,they had initially tried to enter egypt via suez canal,later they used the sea,entered libya,meroe(meru),later ethiopia,in meroe they mingled with bantu meru people,thats why kikuyu,meru people have little amounts of mtDNA N1a and U6,thats were amhara have little L2a.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, well, well. It appears the troll Manu is back. I would take you more seriously if you didn't cite Dienekes the dinosaur. And you're still claiming the ancient Egyptians as 'Eurasians'. LOLPosts: 26236 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
PROTO-MAASAI(SEBA) AND PROTO-KALENJIN(RAAMAH) CULTURAL INFLUENCE ON AFAR(OPHIR),SOMALI(DEDAN) AND OROMO(SHEBA) AFAR WOMEN JEWELLERY MAASAI WOMEN JEWELLERY SAMBURU WOMEN JEWELLERY RENDILLE WOMEN JEWELLERY THE SO-CALLED AFRO-ASIATIC CUSHITES WERE BASICALLY NILOTES WHO INTERMARRIED WITH SEMITES This intermarriage occurred in ancient accad.This is evident,from the way most cushites have adopted semitic lower numerals(1-8) in their numbers,while maintaining their former nilotic upper numerals(9-1000). 4 KALENJIN SUBTRIBES NUMERALS
MAASAI LOWER NUMERALS 1) obo 2) aare 3) okuni 4) oonguan 5) imiet 6) Ile 7) oopishana 8) isiet 9) oondo 10) tomon
KALENJIN-OROMO UPPER NUMERALS(9-1000). As you will see all Oromo lower numerals (1-8),are semitic in origin.but all the upper numerals(9-1000) of Oromo are nilotic Kalenjin in origin.They all include kalenjin lower numerals. KALENJIN-OROMO UPPER NUMERALS Sakal/sogool=Sakal - 9 Taman=Kudhan - 10 Taman ak agenge - 11 : Tiptem=digdem - 20 Tiptem ak agenge - 21 : Sosom -soddoma 30 Sosom ak agenge -31 : Artam - Afurtama40 Artam ak agenge - 41 : Konom - Shantama50 Konom ak agenge - 51 : Tamanwogik Lo - 60 Tamanwogik Lo ak agenge - 61 : Tamanwogik tisap - 70 Tamanwogik tisap ak agenge - 71 : ... sisiit - 80 ... sisiit ak agenge - 81 : ... sogool -sogoltama 90 ... sogool ak agenge - 91 : bogol - Bogol 100 bogol ak agenge 101 : bogol aeng' - 200 : bogol somok - 300 MAASAI UPPER NUMERALS MAINTAINED BY SOMALI AND OROMO. This influence occured when proto-axumite/proto-maasai ANCIENT SABAEANS colonised Yemen and the whole of southern arabia.The Sabaeans Nilotic maa-ancestors colonised the Nilo-semitic SHEBA(oromo),OPHIR(afar),DEDAN(somalis) and HAVILLAH(Tigray & Tigrinya).This colonisation occured when these tribes were still living in Yemen and south arabia. OROMO-SOMALI-MAASAI NUMERALS. Tomon 10 Tomon o obo 11 Tomon o aare 12 Tomon o okuni 13 Tomon o oofigwan14 Tomon o nabo 11 Tomon o are 12 Tomon o uni 13 Tomon o ofigwan 14 Tomon o imyet 15 Tomon o ille 16 Tomon o oopishana 17 Tomon oo naapishana 18 Tomon o isyet 19 Tomon o oudo Tomon oo naudo 20 Tigitam 20 Tigit&m o obo TigitSm o nabo 21 Osom or 'N-domoni uni 23 Artam or 'N-domoni oSgwan24 Onom or 'N-domoni 'myet 25 Onom oo tomon or 'N-domoni 'lie 26 Onom oo tigitam or 'N-domoni naapishana 27 Onom oo 'n-domoni uni or 'N-domoni 'eyet 28 Onom o artain or 'N-domoni naudo 29
Somalis and oromo have adopted semitic lower numerals but have maintained their nilotic upper numerals.maasai and kalenjin have maintained both their nilotic upper and lower numerals.
BIBLICAL EVIDENCE(Genesis 10:6,7) ; SONS OF HAM; 1)CUSH/KUSH=NILOTES(NILO-SAHARAN) 2)MIZRAIMS=PYGMIES & WEST AFRICANS(Niger congo A) 3)PHUT=KHOISAN 4)CANAAN=BANTUS(Niger congo B)
Actually these are also the four main languages spoken in Africa.Considering the fact Afro-asiatic e.g Chadic,Amazigh,Cushitic are NILOTIC CONTINUITY.a proven fact.
SONS OF KUSH(NILOTES) 1)SEBA=Maa-speakers(sabaeans) e.g maasai,samburu,lotuko group 2)HAVILLAH=Tigray and Tigrinya group 3)SABTAH=Nuer,dinka,shilluk,anuak,luo peoples group 4)RAAMAH=Kalenjin,datooga & Omotic group. 5)SABTECHA=Nuba,Turkana,karamajong,Toposa group. 6)NIMROD=Dravidians.
SONS OF RAAMAH(proto kalenjin rmT) 1)SHEBA=Oromo 2)DEDAN=Somali.
DNA EVIDENCE The oldest Y E3b clades are found in NILOTES,while the younger clades are found in afro-asiatic cushites e.g OLDER E3B CLADES NILOTIC; E-M215 and E-M35(maasai),E-V68 in 'nilotic from kenya'(kalenjin)AND FUR,E-V12(NUER),E-M78*(NUBA&MASALLIT),E-M293(DATOGA) YOUNGER E3B CLADES CUSHITIC E-V22(SOMALIS),E-V32(OROMO).
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
Eurocentric scholars in desperate attempt to paint the SABAEANS as semitic,have claimed all the civilisation brought to yemen by the nilo-semitic HIMYARITES known as HAVILLAH in bible.these Himyarites migrated from regions near TIGRIS river in Iranian plateau to yemen then to Eritrea and Ethiopia and today are known as TIGRAY or TIGRINYA people,they together with AGAW who initially were oromo clan started AKSUMITE EMPIRE,they displaced the proto-maasai(sabaeans) who lived there,near afar region(ophir) of eritrea and ethiopia. The so-called 'Sabaean moon god' is actually TIGRAY Moon god Ilmukah or Ilumguh,worshiped by TIGRINYA and TIGRAY before they introduction of christianity to axum 2000 years ago.The moon goddess Astarte, or Ashtart, whom they called Astar, which means "womb." The giver and destroyer of life,was also worshiped by TIGRAY,thats why her temple is also found in tigray region of ethiopia. Astar was Queen of Heaven and Mother of all Deities. Arriving from heaven as a ball of fire, and accompanied by a lioness, she was pictured with horns, and a disc of the sun above her forehead. Oromo(sheba)and sabaeans(maasai)worshiped the sun ENKAI(ENKI)by maasai and WAAQA by oromo. In the Kebra Negast, the Queen tells Solomon,
"We worship the sun...for he cooketh our food, and moreoever he illumineth the darkness, and removeth fear; we call him 'our King,' and we call him 'our Creator'....And there are others among our subjects.... some worship stones, and some worship trees, and some worship carved figures, and some worship images of gold and silver."(2) The queen of SHEBA was an Oromo woman.SHEBA was OROMIA which initially was located in yemen but they entered ethiopia during the Assyrian expansion period.The somalis(dedan)entered the horn during the persian expansion era,that is there are still somali clans left behind in yemen even today. The so-called ARABIAN temple at MARIB was bult by Tigray HIMYARITES before they later relocated to eritrea escaping persian expansion in yemen.in eritrea they displaced afar(ophir),maasai(seba)and oromo(sheba). Geez script was a product of TIGRAY SCRIPT aka SOUTH ARABIAN/SABAEAN and AMHARA(HATTU/HITTITE)SCRIPT brought by amhara migrating from libya and meroe as SEA-PEOPLE.These amhara hittites now coptic christians came and settled in ethiopia SHOA region claiming descent from solomon.They started the SOLOMONID DYNASTY of ethiopia and changed the kingdom name to ABSYNIA.the bible in genesis 10,makes it clear the hittites are descendants of canaan(bantus),descandants of HAM(ancestor of all africans).these bantu hittites mixed with semitic elamites,and were in league with them,that is why they were hated by egyptians. amhara are canaanite bantu hittites who mixed with Elamites,jews,syrians,and later in ethiopia they mixed with maasai,tigray and oromo. BANTU DNA OF AMHARA Y DNA E-M329 a descendant of E-V38,both E-M329 and E-M2 are descendants E-V38. The bible makes it clear,hittites are descended from canaan who is descendend from HAM(father of all africans). AMHARA BANTU PHENOTYPE - - - - - EVER wondered why amhara are usually shorter,broader and have kinky hair more than other ethiopians,except the nilotes?their extreme lightskin is as result of semitic mixture,mostly jewish and elamite.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
| IP: Logged |
quote:BIBLICAL EVIDENCE(Genesis 10:6,7) ; SONS OF HAM; 1)CUSH/KUSH=NILOTES(NILO-SAHARAN) 2)MIZRAIMS=PYGMIES & WEST AFRICANS(Niger congo A) 3)PHUT=KHOISAN 4)CANAAN=BANTUS(Niger congo B)
Actually these are also the four main languages spoken in Africa.Considering the fact Afro-asiatic e.g Chadic,Amazigh,Cushitic are NILOTIC CONTINUITY.a proven fact.
SONS OF KUSH(NILOTES) 1)SEBA=Maa-speakers(sabaeans) e.g maasai,samburu,lotuko group 2)HAVILLAH=Tigray and Tigrinya group 3)SABTAH=Nuer,dinka,shilluk,anuak,luo peoples group 4)RAAMAH=Kalenjin,datooga & Omotic group. 5)SABTECHA=Nuba,Turkana,karamajong,Toposa group. 6)NIMROD=Dravidians.
SONS OF RAAMAH(proto kalenjin rmT) 1)SHEBA=Oromo 2)DEDAN=Somali.
How can NC A/B have DIFFERENT ancestors (If we're going by the bible) ? That doesn't make any sense at all. Secondly, so-called "Bantus" have cultural customs which are more in common with Shem compared to any descendants of Ham (Such a certain groups calling their god "Yah-Ab/Abé" meaning, "Yah is our father" , circumcision (not that unique, but still) , fringes/tassels on the border of their garments, called "tzitzit" in modern Hebrew, and "Tsitsiy" in bantu (the tsetse-fly also lives in the fring(es), hence its name, and you have other common words such as "Ben" ("son" in Hebrew) is "bena/bana" (son in Lingala, Kikongo etc) , water in Hebrew is "Mayim" (the "m" at the end is silent, it's pronounced like "my") in lingala it's "mayi" , in Oshiwambo its "Omeya" in Arabic it's "Maya" , and so forth) .
There's a closer connection between Africa & Arabia (and I know that Arabia is just an extension of North(east) Africa, really.) than most people like to acknowledge
Posts: 117 | From: Earth | Registered: Feb 2014
| IP: Logged |
There's a closer connection between Africa & Arabia (and I know that Arabia is just an extension of North(east) Africa, really.) than most people like to acknowledge
Since North African countries are part of the Arab League, speak the Arabic language (or Semitic languages aka ethio-semitic languages) and practice a religion, Islam, which originated in Arabia. I think the connection is more than acknowledged, it's a fact which happens to also be acknowledged. Many populations in North Africa, including Horn Africa, most possibly because of religion, like to trace their genealogy to Arabia.
Arab League member countries (its' an old map with South Sudan): Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
LEDAMA sez: BIBLICAL EVIDENCE(Genesis 10:6,7) ; SONS OF HAM; 1)CUSH/KUSH=NILOTES(NILO-SAHARAN) 2)MIZRAIMS=PYGMIES & WEST AFRICANS(Niger congo A) 3)PHUT=KHOISAN 4)CANAAN=BANTUS(Niger congo B)
Caanan in Bible text refers to the Levantine/Israel /Palestinian area not any "Niger-Congo." Mizraim in Bible text refers to Egypt, not "Pygmies" or West Africans. You simply do not know what you are talking about and if you are trolling to parody a bogus strawman "Afrocentrist", your game simply isn't plausible- but rather dumb. No one is being fooled.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah, racist past historians always liked to acknowledge the connection between Western Asia and Ancient Egypt since this was the basis of their hamitic/dynastic race pseudo-scientific endeavors. It's the connections between black/Sub-Saharan Africans, including AEians, they liked to keep quiet about. Nowadays, most scientists agree that Ancient Egypt mostly grew from an indigenous African process with the accent on 'indigenous'. It was not migrants from Western Asia or Europe who came to Africa to create the AEian civilization (even if some level of tradings must have existed even in those ancient times) but mostly indigenous Africans related to each others through their common origin in Northeastern Africa (Y-DNA haplogroup A, B and E carriers, MtDNA L).
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Manu: Yemenite Jews who are the real ancient Yemenis have no Bantu associated maternal lineages.
The Arabs are recently mixed mongrels.
Welcome to Egyptsearch,
quote:"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
Under these suppositions, the Arabian Peninsula, as an obliged step between East Africa and South Asia, has gained crucial importance, and indeed several mtDNA studies have recently been published for this region [30-32]. However, it seems that the bulk of the Arab mtDNA lineages have northern Neolithic or more recent Asian or African origins....
--Khaled K Abu-Amero et al. (2008) Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
quote: Haplogroup L3f is defined by the coding variants
3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.
--Viktor Černý1 et al. (2009) Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
quote: The word Arab is of uncertain meaning; when and by whom this people (or these peoples) began to be called Arabs is unknown. The earliest sources where the term Arab appeared the first time are the Hebrew Scriptures of the post-exilic period, namely, during the rebuilding of the Temple under the Persian Empire (Nehemyah 2:19 - 5th century b.c.e.), and is applied in a vague manner probably to some Nabatean tribes. In the same period, also the Greek historian Herodotus mentions the Arabs, apparently in reference to the Yemenite tribes.
There are some earlier records, Akkadian and Assyrian sources that mention the "Aribi", a tribe of the desert that may be connected with the Ishmaelites, but there is not any certainty that such term has even any relationship with the word Arab. Indeed, the term "Arabia" is Greek, as well as Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc. and its probable etymology may be of Semitic origin: 1) 'arabah = steppe, wilderness; 2) 'ereb = mixture of peoples. Both terms are appropriate to them.
Wherever Arabs have conquered, the lands became deserted; the Arabian peninsula itself was not so dry, and Yemen had an irrigation network that allowed the land to be fruitful before Northern Arabs invaded and subdued the Sabean kingdom.
[...]
quote: Most of them were displaced by the Assyrians and emigrated, contributing to the formation of other peoples in India, Central Asia and Europe. Nevertheless, the Kurds are partially descendant of the Subarian/Hurrians, mixed with other elements, and therefore having right to claim a national home in the area - but their land was given to others that arrived many centuries after them: Turks and Arabs.
[...]
quote:The Arab scholars distinguish Arabians as descending from two different stocks: the "original" Arabs ('aribah), whose forefather was Qahtan -Yoqtan- and are the Yemenite group of tribes, and the "arabized" peoples of the north (musta'aribah), whose forefather is said to be Adnan, allegedly an Ishmaelite.
quote: Caanan in Bible text refers to the Levantine/Israel /Palestinian area not any "Niger-Congo
yes the palestinian area was known as canaan,but the name canaan originated from the partriach CANAAN,son of HAM(father of all africans)Gen 10:6.when the bible say 'they of ham used to live in canaan' it means africans used to live in canaan 1 Chronicles 4:40.the partriach canaan was the father of bantus.he was buried in palestine therefore the land was named canaan after him.Cush was buried near afghanistan,there the land,hindu-kush was named after him,his children nilotes entered africa and bult cush and egypt.the partriach MIZRAIM was buried in egypt,the land was named MISIRI after him.That is why egyptians worshiped pygmy deities e.g Ptah and bes.they consider the pygmies aborigines of the land.The pygmies are associated with the BADARIAN culture.
LOL! These people were never part of the Abyssinian kingdom and had no contact with Amharas and Tigrays.
You are a clown.
It's all a bit more complex,
Origin of the Arabs – Encyclopeadia Britannica 1902
Origin of the [Pure] Arab Race
The origin of the Arab race, like that of most others, can only be matter of conjecture; no credit can be attached to the assertions, evidently unbased on historical facts, of those authors who, building on the narrow foundation of Hebrew records, have included the entire nation under the titles of Ismael and Joktan; and Mahometan testimony on these matters can have no more weight than the Jewish, from which it is evidently derived. Setting, therefore, these vague and half-poetical traditions aside, the first certain fact on which to base our investigations is the ancient and undoubted division of the Arab race into two branches, the “Arab,” or pure; and the “Mostareb,” or adscititious.
The geographical limits of both branches have already been sufficiently indicated. A second fact is, that everything in pre-Islamitic literature and record-the only reliable authorities in such a case, as preserved to us in the Hamasa, the Kitab-el-Aghanee, the writings of Musaoodee and Abul Feda, the stories of Antarah or Mohalhet, and the like-concurs in representing the first settlement of the “pure” Arabs as made on the extreme south-western point of the peninsula, near Aden, and thence spreading northward and eastward over Yemen, Hadramaut, and Oman.
A third is the name Himyar, or “dusky,” given now to the ruling class, now to the entire nation; a circumstance pointing, like the former, to African origin.
A fourth is the Himyaritic language-now, indeed, almost lost, but some words of which have been preserved either in proper names or even in whole sentences handed down. They are African in character, often in identity. Indeed, the dialect commonly used along the south-eastern coast hardly differs from that used by the Somawlee Africans on the opposite shore; but later intermixture of blood and constant intercourse may have much to do with this.
Fifthly, it is remarkable that where the grammar of the Arabic, now spoken by the “pure” Arabs, differs from that of the north, it approaches to or coincides with the Abyssinian. Now, it is well known to philologists that grammatical inflections are a much more abiding and intimate test of origin than separate nouns or even verbs. Sixthly, the pre-Islamitic institutions of Yemen and its allied provinces-its monarchies, courts, armies, and sergs-bear a marked resemblance to the historical Africo-Egyptian type, and even to the modern Abyssinian.
Seventhly, the physical conformation of the pure-blooded Arab inhabitants of Yemen, Hadramaut, Oman, and the adjoining districts-the shape and size of the head, the slenderness of the lower limbs, the comparative scantiness of hair, and other particulars- point in an African rather than an Asiatic direction.
Eighthly, the general habits of the people,-given to sedentary rather than nomade occupations, fond of village life, of society, of dance and music; good cultivators of the soil, tolerate traders, moderate artisans, but averse to pastoral pursuits-have much more in common with the inhabitants of the African than with those of the western Asiatic continent.
Lastly, the extreme facility of marriage which exists in all classes of the southern Arabs with the African races; the fecundity of such unions; and the slightness or even absence of any caste feeling between the dusky “pure” Arab and the still darker native of modern Africa-conditions different from those obtaining almost everywhere else-may be regarded as pointing in the direction of a community of origin. Further indications are afforded both by local tradition and actual observation; but they are of a nature to be scarcely appreciable, except by those whom long familiarity has rendered intimate with the races in question; besides, the above are, for average criticism, sufficient.
Origin of Mustareb Race (The so-called white/caucasian Tartar Arabs)
It is harder to determine with precision the origin of the “adscititious” or “Mustareb” Arabs, and the circumstances under which they first peopled their half of the peninsula. Though in physical, mental, and lingual characteristics they offer too marked an affinity with the Arabs of the south to allow of any supposition except that of ultimate unity, so far as the stock is concerned; yet they present many and important divergences from them, and these divergences, whatever their nature, have all an Asiatic impress of their own.
Such are their pastoral tendencies and proneness to nomade life; such the peculiarities of their idiom, drawing near to the Hebrew; such the strong clannish feeling, joined with a constant resistance to anything like regal power or settled comprehensive organization ; such even the outward and physical type.
Time after time we may observe-in their history, their literature, their institutions or the absence of them, their past, their present-traits now Hebrew, now Syrian, now Chaldaean, now even Tatar; though the groundwork of the whole is undoubtedly identical with the Arab of the south.
The probability, faintly indicated by tradition, is that at an early, indeed an absolutely pre-historic period, this branch of the Arab race, emigrating eastward, passed into Asia- not like their congeners, at the southern, but at the northern or isthmal extremity of the Red Sea; them pursued their inland way to the plains of Mesopotamia and Chaldaea, and perhaps even further; and after a long sojourn in these lands, during which they acquired the modifications, mental and physical, which distinguish them from their southern and more unchanged brethren, returned westward to the land already partly occupied by their kinsmen.
This return would not be effected all at once, but by band after band, according to the pressure exercised on them by Iranian or Turanian neighbours, a fact witnessed to by many of the northern pre-Islamitic traditions, as found in Ibn-Atheer, Tabreezec, and others; while the well-known Ishmaelitic mythos, recorded alike in Hebrew and in Arab chronicles, probably points to the last batch of “adscititious” Arab immigrants, the special clan from which the family of Koreysh and the Prophet had origin.
Once established on the same soil, the two branches would naturally early manifest a tendency to unite, sufficient in time to produce a tolerable identity both of language and of usages; while the superinduced modifications of character and manners may well have originated the rivalry and even enmity between the Arabs of the north, or “Keysees,” and those of Yemen, which, under various forms, has never ceased down to our own time.
quote: Caanan in Bible text refers to the Levantine/Israel /Palestinian area not any "Niger-Congo
yes the palestinian area was known as canaan,but the name canaan originated from the partriach CANAAN,son of HAM(father of all africans)Gen 10:6.when the bible say 'they of ham used to live in canaan' it means africans used to live in canaan 1 Chronicles 4:40.the partriach canaan was the father of bantus.he was buried in palestine therefore the land was named canaan after him.Cush was buried near afghanistan,there the land,hindu-kush was named after him,his children nilotes entered africa and bult cush and egypt.the partriach MIZRAIM was buried in egypt,the land was named MISIRI after him.That is why egyptians worshiped pygmy deities e.g Ptah and bes.they consider the pygmies aborigines of the land.The pygmies are associated with the BADARIAN culture.
I'm not sure if I interpreted you off, but the word "MIZRAIM" means "Egypt" in Hebrew.
Here is a image of what an ancient Philistine and bordering people looked like.
Located at the National Museum of Egypt, Cairo. 2nd floor.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
As usual, great post by TP. Always on point. Would be good to highlight the relevant sections, nevertheless. This support the genetic data. It seems like Hadramawt, Yemen and other areas is a reflection of South Saharan Africa but as Kivilsild et al pointed out through mtDNA, the connection goes back to Paleolithic times. DNATribes made the exact same suggestion through their studies with SNP. South Saharan types existed in the Arabian Peninsular prior to the migration of Neolithic farmers into the region. The only controversy is that the study you quoted suggested, through anthropology, that although the Northern Arabian were originally also Africans they migrated to points further East then back-migrated to Northern Arabia.
The genetic data do NOT support that hypothesis. The genetic data supports- The indigenous Northern Arabians are indeed admixed with Neolithic Africans/EEF(and my personal belief new-comers Ottomans). As the paper I posted and you also referenced shows that some Horners/Great Lakers have a greater affinity to Northern Arabians(and of course Maghrebians) than those in the Yemen area. The geographic pattern support the SNP and Haplogroup pattern of the second OOA wave through the Levant and NOT Yemen.
I figured that out already, and DNATribes also, as posted in their EEF/ANA map!!! This is not rocket science.
QUOTE ==== Seventhly, the physical conformation of the pure-blooded Arab inhabitants of Yemen, Hadramaut, Oman, and the adjoining districts-the shape and size of the head, the slenderness of the lower limbs, the comparative scantiness of hair, and other particulars- point in an African rather than an Asiatic direction. Eighthly, th….. Lastly, the extreme facility of marriage which exists in all classes of the southern Arabs with the African races; the fecundity of such unions; and the slightness or even absence of any caste feeling between the dusky "pure" Arab and the still darker native of modern Africa-conditions different from those obtaining almost everywhere else-may be regarded as pointing in the direction of a community of origin. +
Origin of Mustareb Race
It is harder to determine with precision the origin of the "adscititious" or "Mustareb" Arabs. . Though in physical, mental, and lingual characteristics they offer too marked an affinity with the Arabs of the south.
their present-traits now Hebrew, now Syrian, now Chaldaean, now even Tatar
extremity of the Red Sea; them pursued their inland way to the plains of Mesopotamia and Chaldaea, and perhaps even further; and after a long sojourn I these lands, during which they acquired the modifications, mental and physical, which distinguish them from their southern and more unchanged brethren, RETURNED WESTWARD to the land already partly occupied by their kinsmen.
====
As Sergi said, the EurAfrican has an African origin, even the peoples of Mesopotamia. They are all Neolithic Africans.
The genetic pattern of yDNA J2 supports a historical, maybe Ottoman, influence in the region. What am I talking about? J2 has great frequency ONLYy in the port cities of Africa, as far as Morrocco, including Cairo. Unlike J1 which is widespread through out Africa showing Paleolithic presence.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
1. The author is suggesting that “pastoralism’ separates Northern Arabians from the southern Arabians. Southern being agriculturalist while Northerners being pastoralist, with an Arabia origin. Pastoralism also have an African/EEF origin!!!. 2. The presence of South Saharan types and North African types in the Natufians in the Levant makes absolute sense since both populations existed in Arabia. 3. Gonzalez (?)et al 2014. Levant Neolithic farmers carried mtDNA L and H along with K. The hg-K haplotypes were similar to those found in Yemen…. and Turkey 4. Remember that Turkey carry a high frequency of mtDNA L.
Obviously as many authors have stated. An older population occupied region from Yemen to Turkey and was eventually pushed out by another population carry R0/H.
This is not rocket science.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
^ Source for a high L in Turkey? How do you reconcile the your idea of recnent Africna origin of Natufian when looking at their limb proportions data?
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
@trol pAtrol#ish gibril-smh..slow people. I KNOW MIZRAIM MEANS EGYPT OKAY What i am saying is that the land was named after the patriach MIZRAIM(hebrew),MISIRI(nilotic&bantu),MISRI(arabic),MUSURI(persian),a son of HAM(father of all black africans).MIZRAIM died and was buried in egypt that is why africans called the land MISIRI.khoisan and pygmies are the first africans to enter egypt via the suez canal,but the pygmies were the first africans to settle in the north east africa region,before later migrating to central africa and cameroon forest,due to the incoming nilotic migration from the south,all nilotes entered africa via the horn of africa root,the nilotes that remained in mesopotamia mixed with semites,that is why i believe the AFRO-ASIATIC URHEIMATis Accad and Sumer.Those bantus and nilotes that mixed with pygmies were also called MIZRAIM aka BADERIANS.That is why all ethnicities of OLD kingdom egypt,between first dynastyand third intermediary period, that came into contact with these proto egyptians had pygmy DNA Y haplogroup B-M60 and mtDNA L1b/c.E.g,nuba,kalenjin,nubians,karamajong,turkana,nuer,dinka,copts.Except Yoruba,igbo,akan,ashanti,mande who are old kingdom bantus that had bottle-necked these pygmy population,marrying their women,hence preserving these proto-pygmy language mixed with bantu VOLTA-NIGER CONGO.Egyptians worshiped bes and ptah as their oldest deities,infact the name PTAH in both egyptian and kalenjin means 'god of the beginning'. EGYPTIAN BES [IMG], EGYPTIAN PTAH AND BES(Egypt oldest gods) . The only nilotes that didn't mix with bantus but mixed with khoisan are eastern nilotes(maasai,samburu)Y Haplogroup A-M13.Western nilotes e.g dinka,luo,turkana,acholi mixed with both khoisan and pygmies that is why they have both A-M13 and B-M60.SOUTHERN NILOTES(y e-v68,e-m78)e.g kalenjin and datooga mixed with pygmies(B2a) and bantus(E3a) in ancient egypt,but when they migrated south after assyrian invasion of egypt they mixed with maasai in western ethiopia acquiring A-M13 and E-M35.somalis(E-V22)and Oromo(E-V32) were still in yemen.ALL nilotes have E3b,that means E3b is a nilotic clade,afro-asiatic cushitic are nilotes from yemen and arabia,who entered africa after persian expansion,they have A-M13 due to maasai(sabaean)colonisation,they don't have B2a like other nilotes because they never came into contact with pygmies,their language is a mixture of nilotic and semitic,because of the semitic expansion in the middle east,that forced these nilo-semites into africa.they have mtDNA L3 and L4 like nilotes,Younger clades of Y E3b,unlike nilotes who carry Older clades of E3b.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Manu: ^^^ @Amun-Ra, So, you believe that the isolated Rendille of Kenya got their West Eurasian mtDNA 30% I1, HV, N1, K etc from Ethiosemites 3,000 years ago? http://www.isita-org.com/jass/Contents/2008%20vol86/12_Castri.pdf LOL! These people were never part of the Abyssinian kingdom and had no contact with Amharas and Tigrays. You are a clown.
rendile warriors The rendille were a Somali clan assimilated by maasai and samburu,especially samburu.The name RENDILLEin somali is pronounced REER-NDILLE which is translated to 'house of Ndille'in somali language. when maasai warriors were pushed south by Aksumites e.g Tigray,agaw and nothern oromo,they migrated south towards ogaden region of ethiopia,others migrated west into sudan(lotuka) mixing with karamajong.Those that migrated south(samburu),encountered somali migrants from yemen,who pushed maa people,further west toward lake turkana.At lake turkana,samburu encountered other maasai migrating from eastern sudan and western ethiopia.The maa-name for lake turkana is Basso Narok, which mean't 'Great Water'. later maa people entered kenya,kerio valley.
Posts: 306 | From: Kenya | Registered: Dec 2013
| IP: Logged |
quote: quote:BIBLICAL EVIDENCE(Genesis 10:6,7) ; SONS OF HAM; 1)CUSH/KUSH=NILOTES(NILO-SAHARAN) 2)MIZRAIMS=PYGMIES & WEST AFRICANS(Niger congo A) 3)PHUT=KHOISAN 4)CANAAN=BANTUS(Niger congo B)
Actually these are also the four main languages spoken in Africa.Considering the fact Afro-asiatic e.g Chadic,Amazigh,Cushitic are NILOTIC CONTINUITY.a proven fact.
SONS OF KUSH(NILOTES) 1)SEBA=Maa-speakers(sabaeans) e.g maasai,samburu,lotuko group 2)HAVILLAH=Tigray and Tigrinya group 3)SABTAH=Nuer,dinka,shilluk,anuak,luo peoples group 4)RAAMAH=Kalenjin,datooga & Omotic group. 5)SABTECHA=Nuba,Turkana,karamajong,Toposa group. 6)NIMROD=Dravidians.
SONS OF RAAMAH(proto kalenjin rmT) 1)SHEBA=Oromo 2)DEDAN=Somali.
How can NC A/B have DIFFERENT ancestors (If we're going by the bible) ? That doesn't make any sense at all. Secondly, so-called "Bantus" have cultural customs which are more in common with Shem compared to any descendants of Ham (Such a certain groups calling their god "Yah-Ab/Abé" meaning, "Yah is our father" , circumcision (not that unique, but still) , fringes/tassels on the border of their garments, called "tzitzit" in modern Hebrew, and "Tsitsiy" in bantu (the tsetse-fly also lives in the fring(es), hence its name, and you have other common words such as "Ben" ("son" in Hebrew) is "bena/bana" (son in Lingala, Kikongo etc) , water in Hebrew is "Mayim" (the "m" at the end is silent, it's pronounced like "my") in lingala it's "mayi" , in Oshiwambo its "Omeya" in Arabic it's "Maya" , and so forth) .
There's a closer connection between Africa & Arabia (and I know that Arabia is just an extension of North(east) Africa, really.) than most people like to acknowledge
Yes ,there are hebrew words in bantu,because hebrews were slaves in egypt.egypt consisted of many african ethnicities and bantus(hyksos) were part of them.Egyptianised hyksos Bantu canaanites were called TA-SETI(she-of seti).pharaoh RAMASES II of 19th dynasty had hyksos roots,even his father RAMASES I was a worshiper of SETH/SETI(egyptian dog deity),he was named/initiated SETI(he-of seti).when hyksos bantu immigrants from canaan,entered egypt,escaping semitic expansion of the palestine(edomites,ishmaelites,midianites,ammonites,moabites),they did not obey egypt martriachal law,hence were considered foreigners,they ruled 14th,15th,and 17th dynasties of egypt as foreigners.The kalenjin theban wasetians continued with 16th dynasty which fought with the hyksos dynasties.It was the proto-kalenjin pharaoh AMASIS of 18th dynasty that chased these bantus from egypt,except TA-MERU(she-of AMERU(Amorites)who settled in heriopolis,later MEROE(MERU) and TA-SETI(she-of seti)who settled in syene(aswan).SETI or SETH is the egyptian dog deity.both TA-SETI and TA-MERU were egyptianised bantus.pharaoh Ramses II was a Ta-seti bantu pharaoh,who had hyksos bantu roots,his father Ramses I was a worshiper of SETH/SETI,there he was called SETI(he-of seti).Ta-meru bantus were loyal to theban wasetian egyptians(proto-kalenjin)and both worshiped the same deities e.g ASIS,HATHOR(yator in kalenjin)and AMUN(amoni in kalenjin).SEMITES who took bantu hyksos land in canaan were edomites today are palestinians of gaza strip,they took the land of the dogon people of west africa,who are the biblical PHILISTINES(philistim) Topic: DESCENDANTS OF ANCIENT PHILISTINES TODAY IN WEST AFRICA. ,ishmaelites and midianites(bedouins) today are arabs of saudiarabia.later migrated to egypt,sudan,algeria,libya and qatar during RASHIDUN CALIPHATE.Ammonites and moabites are today's Jordanians took part of amorite lands.other parts of amorite/AMERU lands would be taken later by jews.known to egyptians as TA-SHEMU(she-of shem) web page: ANCIENT AMORITES MIGRATED TO AFRICA.. ALL JEWISH GROUPS HAVE AFRICAN ANCESTRY After the persian invasion of egypt,some jews followed the TA-MERU bantus(ameru,abakuria,mwila,herero,mijikenda,ngoni,shona) up the nile to great lakes region and south africa.These jews today are called LEMBA.In swahili/mijikenda bantu,LEMBA or KI-LEMBA means TURBAN,that means the lemba jews were levites wearing turbans.other jews migrated to west africa with RETH/RETEHU west african bantus(igbo,yoruba,ashanti,akan),towards TA-NETJER(she-of niger)land.one biblical evidence showing us even the cities jews dwelt in egypt is Jeremiah 44:1
quote:44 The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the Jews which dwell in the land of Egypt, which dwell at Migdol, and at Tahpanhes, and at Noph, and in the country of Pathros, saying,
.
remember egypt was made up of different african ethnicities therefore it was called LAND OF HAM(land of africans),psalms 105:23
quote: 23 Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.
and psalms 106:22
quote:22 Wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red sea.
.Egypt is also called TARBANACLES OF HAM(Tents of africans).In Psalms 78:51
quote: 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:
.Ham son of noah was the father of all africans.SHEM son of noah was the father of all SHEMITIC(semitic)and asiatic people including mongoloids,JAPHET son of noah was the father of all white caucasians. EGYPT WAS A CONFEDERATION OF AFRICAN TRIBES. ISaiah 19:13
quote:13 The princes of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof .
. DIFFERENT KINGS AND PRINCES IN EGYPT. Jeremiah 46:25
quote:25 The Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saith; Behold, I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods , and their kings ; even Pharaoh, and all them that trust in him:
. KINGDOMS OF EGYPT Isaiah 19:2
quote:2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom .
posted
As I said. The Bantu expansion, as “recorded” NEVER occurred. Don’t believe me?! Here!! As I said many times. Bantus in West Africa are the youngest of Africans. The Bantu Expansion is another lie to disassembly and confuse the relationship amongst Africans. .
======= Bidirectional gene flow between Central and Eastern Africa in the Early Holocene and low genetic input of East African mtDNA lineages into Bantu populations before their expansion South - Silva Marina 1, Farida
SEPT 2014
The Bantu expansion had a major impact in Africa, with consequences both at cultural and genetic levels. It started in the region of Cameroon and Nigeria less than 5 thousand years ago (5 ka) [1) and it is thought to have taken two main routes into South Africa: (1) throughout the west through Angola around 3.5 ka and (2) towards the Great Lakes in East Africa, reaching the region of Uganda about 2.5 ka, where they stayed for a few hundred years, expanding later into the south, having reached Mozambique by 1.8 ka [1], The latter (Eastern route) is of particular interest to study potential crossings between migrants and local central populations during the period in which the Bantu people were stationed in the Great Lakes region. Regarding L2 haplogroup, despite its Western origin, it is nowadays very frequent also in Eastern and Southern Africa. Considering this pattern, L2 movements been POSTULATED to be related to the Bantu expansion. However, a previous analysis based on HVS-J (Hypervariable segment s) of mtDNA showed that the expansion to the East might have occurred MUCH EARLIER, during the improvement of environmental conditions in the early Holocene (around 10 to 12 ka). The present study aims to reconstruct the phylogeny of L2 haplogroup, in order to provide insights on the complex net of migrations that occurred in Africa in the last thousand years. We sequenced 50 mitogenomes representative of the haplogroup diversity across Africa (with focus on East Africa), which were combined with more than 500 sequences available in online databases. Phylogenetic reconstruction was performed using parsimony, maximum likelihood and Bayesian inference, employing different molecular clocks (including a whole-genome clock corrected for purifying selection and a synonymous dock) [2]. Our phylogenetic analysis of complete mtDNA L2 sequences indicates that lineages in Southern Africa DIFFER from the ones in East Africa and cluster directly with Central/West African lineages at a recent time scale. On the other hand, lineages in the East seem to be **MUCH **older, suggesting that L2 most probably arrived in the East earlier than the Bantu expansion, in Early Holocene, when climate conditions improved and gene flow across Central Africa was probably frequent l3 J. The same pattern is observed in haplogroup L0a, but in an opposite direction. L0a had its origin in the East (being today common in the South) and moved to Central Africa also during the improvement of climatic conditions [4]. Similarly, south lineages of LOa do NOT seem to be related with those in the East. These evidence, together with the absence of Eastern typical haplogroups (L4, L5, L6, L3h, L3i) in the South, suggest that Bantu permanence in East Africa did not result in admixture with local populations and the population that migrated South had almost entirely ancestry in a Central African mtDNA gene pool. We concluded that two different independent major expansions were associated to haplogroup L2: an initial, and more ancient migration (during the Early Holocene) and potentially driven by climatic improvement around 10 to 12 ka (when L2lineagcs arrived in East Africa) and, more recently, the Bantu Expansion, that took L2 towards the South.
====
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Some of you guys may be more “knowledgeable than me on what is “documented” in the history books. But the lies, as written in these books, are slowly being exposed.
Maybe someone can help me out here. With the little research I have done, I have my doubts there existed an autochronous “Phoenician Civilization”. “Phoenicians” never travelled the sea building Ports and cities. The evidence is I am gathering shows that many of these cities were built by indigenous peoples of those lands.
.Maybe someone will talk me off the ledge. Tell me I am wrong. But more pointedly, provide the evidence.
But, I know now that I am right about the Bantu Expansion.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh! And Lioness. How do you think they surmised that the East African Bantus are older than the West African Bantus? Tic! Toc! Haplotype comparison within L0a and L2. See, they will disclose the information when they want to.
This is not rocket science.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: ] As I said. The Bantu expansion, as “recorded” NEVER occurred. Don’t believe me?! Here!! As I said many times. Bantus in West Africa are the youngest of Africans. The Bantu Expansion is another lie to disassembly and confuse the relationship amongst Africans. .
======= Bidirectional gene flow between Central and Eastern Africa in the Early Holocene and low genetic input of East African mtDNA lineages into Bantu populations before their expansion South - Silva Marina 1, Farida
SEPT 2014
The Bantu expansion had a major impact in Africa, with consequences both at cultural and genetic levels. It started in the region of Cameroon and Nigeria less than 5 thousand years ago (5 ka) [1) and it is thought to have taken two main routes into South Africa: (1) throughout the west through Angola around 3.5 ka and (2) towards the Great Lakes in East Africa, reaching the region of Uganda about 2.5 ka, where they stayed for a few hundred years, expanding later into the south, having reached Mozambique by 1.8 ka [1], The latter (Eastern route) is of particular interest to study potential crossings between migrants and local central populations during the period in which the Bantu people were stationed in the Great Lakes region. Regarding L2 haplogroup, despite its Western origin, it is nowadays very frequent also in Eastern and Southern Africa. Considering this pattern, L2 movements been POSTULATED to be related to the Bantu expansion. However, a previous analysis based on HVS-J (Hypervariable segment s) of mtDNA showed that the expansion to the East might have occurred MUCH EARLIER, during the improvement of environmental conditions in the early Holocene (around 10 to 12 ka). The present study aims to reconstruct the phylogeny of L2 haplogroup, in order to provide insights on the complex net of migrations that occurred in Africa in the last thousand years. We sequenced 50 mitogenomes representative of the haplogroup diversity across Africa (with focus on East Africa), which were combined with more than 500 sequences available in online databases. Phylogenetic reconstruction was performed using parsimony, maximum likelihood and Bayesian inference, employing different molecular clocks (including a whole-genome clock corrected for purifying selection and a synonymous dock) [2]. Our phylogenetic analysis of complete mtDNA L2 sequences indicates that lineages in Southern Africa DIFFER from the ones in East Africa and cluster directly with Central/West African lineages at a recent time scale. On the other hand, lineages in the East seem to be **MUCH **older, suggesting that L2 most probably arrived in the East earlier than the Bantu expansion, in Early Holocene, when climate conditions improved and gene flow across Central Africa was probably frequent l3 J. The same pattern is observed in haplogroup L0a, but in an opposite direction. L0a had its origin in the East (being today common in the South) and moved to Central Africa also during the improvement of climatic conditions [4]. Similarly, south lineages of LOa do NOT seem to be related with those in the East. These evidence, together with the absence of Eastern typical haplogroups (L4, L5, L6, L3h, L3i) in the South, suggest that Bantu permanence in East Africa did not result in admixture with local populations and the population that migrated South had almost entirely ancestry in a Central African mtDNA gene pool. We concluded that two different independent major expansions were associated to haplogroup L2: an initial, and more ancient migration (during the Early Holocene) and potentially driven by climatic improvement around 10 to 12 ka (when L2lineagcs arrived in East Africa) and, more recently, the Bantu Expansion, that took L2 towards the South.
==== [/QB]
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Originally posted by xyyman: [b] As I said. The Bantu expansion, as “recorded” NEVER occurred. Don’t believe me?! Here!! As I said many times. Bantus in West Africa are the youngest of Africans. The Bantu Expansion is another lie to disassembly and confuse the relationship amongst Africans.
Clarify this XYZ. What do you mean never occurred as recorded and why? Give more detail.. The reference you post says there was an expansion. And if there was no expansion what is your alternative scenario?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
No! The author is stating the literature/as recorded proposes a Bantu Expansion. That is his "starting pointing". He starts with that assumption and set about to prove or disprove it. However his data is showing there was NOT a movement of Bantus from West Africa to East Africa.
He concluded that there is no genetic evidence of Bantus migrating from Cameroon/Nigeria to East Africa. Infact the Bantu speakers of East Africa are much much older than West Africans.
There is no alternative scenarios. This latest(2014) study corraborates all the previous studies I cited.
The Bantu Expansion never occured....as recorded in history books. It is all BS.
Reading and comprehension
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Originally posted by xyyman: [b] As I said. The Bantu expansion, as “recorded” NEVER occurred. Don’t believe me?! Here!! As I said many times. Bantus in West Africa are the youngest of Africans. The Bantu Expansion is another lie to disassembly and confuse the relationship amongst Africans.
Clarify this XYZ. What do you mean never occurred as recorded and why? Give more detail.. The reference you post says there was an expansion. And if there was no expansion what is your alternative scenario?
The author you reference is one in a long line of authors who reitorate the pre-Bantu antiquity of L2 outside of West Africa. How else would it be in PPN and Fezzan aDNA?
*Scratching my head* What exactly is it that you deem so revolutionary and newsworthy here in regards to orthodox Bantu migration theory?
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ok. I will bite. What is the genetic signature of the Bantu Expansion?
thread slowly now. ....you now what you are in for.
Educate us...no..me
Quote from the paper: L2 movements been POSTULATED to be related to the Bantu expansion.
reading comprehension. I expect better from you.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote: It is all BS.Reading and comprehension
The author you reference is one in a long line of authors who reitorate the pre-Bantu antiquity of L2 outside of West Africa. How else would it be in PPN and Fezzan aDNA?
*Scratching my head* What exactly is it that you deem so revolutionary and newsworthy here in regards to orthodox Bantu migration theory?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I try to make these post idiot proof by bolding relevant sections. But yet I get these dumb questions and challenges.
What don't you understand by "postulated to be the signature of Bantu Expansion." SMH.
You are probably a Art or Writer major. Science and logic is NOT your strong point.
So educate me...and the author. What is the genetic signature of the Bantu Expansion.
@ Lioness. I will read and followup on that NEW paper. It looks like they are using SNP/AIM and NOT haplotypes comparison. And you know what that leads to.....
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic