This is topic Egyptian soil is not black in forum Egyptology at EgyptSearch Forums.


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Posted by Tyrannosaurus (Member # 3735) on :
 






Notice the color of the river bank soil. It's brown in color, not black.

This is black soil:


 

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Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
 
Good catch
 

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Posted by KaBa Un Hru (Member # 4547) on :
 
The first picture is of Egypt but the second picture is in Hawaii...

Interesting ...
 

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Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 
If there is a target audience for the intro notes, it ought to be those who insist that the Kemetyw's ethnic/national reference to "black", is towards the soil of the Nile.

Kemetyw considered themselves to be generally 'black' or 'dark skinned' people and revered the color of 'black', which was considered to be what was there before anything came to being [as is the case in the "boundless primeval water"], according to their cosmological concepts, and marks the ETERNAL state of existence. In otherwords, when people ask why on earth black people would call themselves black, when they are clearly surrounded by other blacks of different nationality...the answer is, 'black' was revered or sacred to the Kemetyw. This is of course, a regurgitation of what I stated earlier elsewhere time and again, and more recently in the following guise:

The Sun embodies:

Regeneration via its cyclic rise and setting , and is the cause of liveliness at the same time through its light. Thus, while the positioning of the Sun vis-à-vis the earth is cyclic, it marks the temporary phases of the interplay of light and dark. Darkness in itself however, is in a non-random state, and is ETERNAL, while light [actually the product of disorderly/random dispersion of photons from the source of emission (Energy source), like the Sun], is a TEMPORARY phase.

I tend to think of the Pharaonic concept of the "living" king’s identification with Heru [the son of Ausar], and the passed away king’s identification with Ausar [the father of Heru], as being correlated to the aforementioned cyclic nature of sunrise and sunset, whereby the living king represents the temporary "light" phase of life, while the dead one is in its eternal [and peaceful] "dark" state in the Nederland or dwt, and that this is a process that was envisioned to keep going [reoccurring events of life, in the same manner as the suns cycles vis-à-vis the earth] in cycles; i.e. for every ruler who passed away, there will be a replacement by a living counterpart. Heru thus represents the temporary phase of the king’s soul, while Ausar, represents the eternal phase of the king’s soul…

…The primeval waters:

According to the writings of the Egyptians, there was a time when neither heaven nor earth existed, and when nothing had being except the **boundless primeval water**, which was, however, **shrouded with thick darkness**. In this condition the primeval water remained for a considerable time, notwithstanding that it contained within it the germs of the things which afterwards came into existence in this world itself. - Budge

For more, see:Looking beneath & beyond the Kemetic viewpoint of "life"

^^...all taken from: Colour veneration

The Kemetyw viewpoint of 'black' and 'dark' would best be approximated as being quite the OPPOSITE of that held in the Eurocentric concept of the so-called "West", where people refer to themselves as "white" and revere the color of 'white' or 'light'.
 

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
It wouldn't surprise me if there were somewhere in mdw ntr a reference to black soil, ie 'ta kem' in mdw ntr, since black is so common and referenced in literal and indirect forms, black cats, black people, black bulls, black faces, black communities, black sea, black books, etc..

But we can't say this, as no specific reference to black soil in mdw ntr has ever been produced.

The very rarity or nonexistence of specific reference makes clear the contrived fallacy of attempting to sublimate the meaning of black, to the word soil.

Black people, black cats, black faces, black bulls and black community makes sense in the context of direct reference to skin color.

As referenced in the Coptic: Anok ang ou Keme' nefer.

I am Black and beautiful.

Black Sea and Black Books are sensible as and indirect reference to the Black community.

The original Kemetic name of the "Red Sea" was the Black Sea.

You can actually understand the black vs. red dichotomy that runs throughout Kemetic culture quite well through this term, as all that is meant is that he sea is viewed as belong to the keme' [blacks] or the deshre' [reds].

It is analogous to the conflicting reference to the Japan Sea vs. China Sea, which Korea wants renamed as the East Sea.
 

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Posted by Inmybackgarden. (Member # 13388) on :
 
As im learning im aware that Kemetic is meaning (black ).Can it also be referred im see to witchcraft(Ancient Egyptian magic)..
 

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Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
 
Inmybackgarden wrote:

quote:

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As im learning im aware that Kemetic is meaning (black ).Can it also be referred im see to witchcraft(Ancient Egyptian magic)

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From what I have read, the ancient Egyptians did not have a concept equivalent to western notions of witchcraft or even magic. To the ancient Egyptians what many would percieve as magic was simply a tradition associated with creation. The ancient Egyptians called this Heka which reflected back to the time of creation.
 

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Posted by Myra Wysinger (Member # 10126) on :
 
Egyptian Magic Figurine



'Magical figurines were thought to be more effective if they incorporated something from the intended victim, such as hair, nail-clippings or bodily fluids.

Curses

Though magic was mainly used to protect or heal, the Egyptian state also practised destructive magic. The names of foreign enemies and Egyptian traitors were inscribed on clay pots, tablets, or figurines of bound prisoners. These objects were then burned, broken, or buried in cemeteries in the belief that this would weaken or destroy the enemy.

In major temples, priests and priestesses performed a ceremony to curse enemies of the divine order, such as the chaos serpent Apophis - who was eternally at war with the creator sun god. Images of Apophis were drawn on papyrus or modelled in wax, and these images were spat on, trampled, stabbed and burned. Anything that remained was dissolved in buckets of urine. The fiercest gods and goddesses of the Egyptian pantheon were summoned to fight with, and destroy, every part of Apophis, including his soul (ba) and his heka. Human enemies of the kings of Egypt could also be cursed during this ceremony.

'This kind of magic was turned against King Ramesses III by a group of priests, courtiers and harem ladies. These conspirators got hold of a book of destructive magic from the royal library, and used it to make potions, written spells and wax figurines with which to harm the king and his bodyguards. Magical figurines were thought to be more effective if they incorporated something from the intended victim, such as hair, nail-clippings or bodily fluids. The treacherous harem ladies would have been able to obtain such substances but the plot seems to have failed. The conspirators were tried for sorcery and condemned to death.

Protection

Angry deities, jealous ghosts, and foreign demons and sorcerers were thought to cause misfortunes such as illness, accidents, poverty and infertility. Magic provided a defence system against these ills for individuals throughout their lives.

Stamping, shouting, and making a loud noise with rattles, drums and tambourines were all thought to drive hostile forces away from vulnerable women, such as those who were pregnant or about to give birth, and from children - also a group at risk, liable to die from childhood diseases.

Supernatural fighters, such as the lion-dwarf Bes and the hippopotamus goddess Taweret, were represented on furniture and household items. Their job was to protect the home, especially at night when the forces of chaos were felt to be at their most powerful.

Bes and Taweret also feature in amuletic jewellery. Egyptians of all classes wore protective amulets, which could take the form of powerful deities or animals, or use royal names and symbols. Other amulets were designed to magically endow the wearer with desirable qualities, such as long life, prosperity and good health. [Source]


.
 

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Posted by Evergreen (Member # 12192) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
Inmybackgarden wrote:

quote:

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As im learning im aware that Kemetic is meaning (black ).Can it also be referred im see to witchcraft(Ancient Egyptian magic)

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From what I have read, the ancient Egyptians did not have a concept equivalent to western notions of witchcraft or even magic. To the ancient Egyptians what many would percieve as magic was simply a tradition associated with creation. The ancient Egyptians called this Heka which reflected back to the time of creation.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
Myra, excellent finding, though I wish you could post it here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
To Jaime: Going twice...

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Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 
^ Nile valley dirt is not any different than Indus Valley or Tigress-Euphrates so there is no point is looking for pictures of dark dirt which can be found virtually anywhere.

What is needed as a starter are actual references from primary text to black soils of the river valley.

Anyone care to provide them?


It's not hard to believe that such reference should exist for any riverine civilisation, though it would not negate in any way the Kemetians referring to themselves as Blacks, espcially in contexts where their skin is dark in the iconography.

However - no evidence has been provided for any Kemetic text reference to claimed black soil..

Therefore there is not even the most threadbare evidence to provide contextual basis for the claim.

As for this....


Again, look at the fertile dark dirt.

Sorry, but I see Black People., and so do you.

Actually the men shown are darker than the dirt referenced, so why are you pretending you can't grasp this and whom are you trying to convince, yourself?

They are Black because 'they' are Black, just like the Kemetu.

That's the point unintentionally made.

Trying to pawn Kemetic Blackness off on the land always leads to such self defeating contradictions.
 

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Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
[Q] ^Indeed, the Egyptians saw 'magic' as a power any living being with a spirit is capable of. In fact, evidence shows that magic was once widely practiced in many parts of the world than it is now. This is still seen today in parts of Asia where where it believed if one cultivated enough spiritual powers one is capable of powerful magic, and it is used by shamans or priests.

Inmybackgarden, you should know that "black-magic" is a term coined by Europeans to describe evil or devious forms of magic which runs counter to the Egyptian/African association of black with positive aspects.

Myra, excellent finding, though I wish you could post it here. As usual, you guys have strayed from the topic at hand which is the color of Egypt's soil.

T-rex is wrong about there being no black soil as during the flood seasons, the banks recieve silt. However there is the good point that even then it is not abundant enough for the whole country to be called 'black'! [/Q]

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quote:

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Originally posted by rasol:


As for this....


Again, look at the fertile dark dirt.

Sorry, but I see Black People., and so do you.

Actually the men shown are darker than the dirt referenced, so why are you pretending you can't grasp this and whom are you trying to convince, yourself?

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^ Still lol-ing at the anti-Kemitic mullato-centrist trying to convince himself that those men look at the soil and -see black- but look at their own faces.... and 'cannot'.

So they call themselves 'blacks', but not because they are....


The dark-depths that people go to out justify their fear of Blackness.
 

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Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 
Any photos of Nile "black soil"?
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
The only pic I could find with a clear picture of the silt was what T-rex posted

quote:

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Originally posted by Tyrannosaurus:

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^ You can see the dark or 'black' silt deposit along the banks.
 

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Posted by Willing Thinker {What Box} (Member # 10819) on :
 
:Great and inmportant Euro psuedo-Bible-priest voice: ^Behold! Nation of the black soil!

:end voice:

However, seriously, rasol's right; really all one needs is text.

Now, to take heed, and bump up bortha Takruri's thread.
 

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