more pics on how south arabians distinguish by phenotype
mixed dravidian/aryan w/more closer dravidian look
horner type what they call kushen or kush found near the ocean areas and hadrumaut
the northern type Posted by AFRICA I (Member # 13222) on :
I don't really understand the purpose of your post...what are you trying to convey?
Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
More south arabian types:
Vedoidd influenced, looks like they could fit well in India.
Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
Yemeni with more traditional clothes, probably how the Sabaeans looked.
Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
Women with more south arabian traditional look (not saudi or northern arabia influenced)
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Abdul, your typical northern Arabs are much darker than those little girls on the magazines. Arab media only shows the lightest celebrities in movies or magazines. Lots of northern Arabic groups like Iraqis are a mixture of northern and southern Arabians. Many bedouins originate in Yemen.
Both the Lakhmids and Ghassanids were southern Arabian I believe. Both were kingdoms that ruled Iraq and Syria respectively.
Levantine Arabs have layers of southern Arabian and European ancestry. The same goes for Syrians,Palestineans,Jordanians and others. Although in the case of the Palestineans they might have southern European or African influence. Whatever ethnic group existed prior to Arab immigration also might be apart of the mixture.
Don't sterotype Yemenis either because you will find pale ones amongst them as well as combinations of dark and pale people in the same family. In places like Tihama you find African looking people with a very ancient African culture.
Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
quote:ausar: Many bedouins originate in Yemen.
Are you sure about this? Since almost all bedouins are nomads and Yemenis have always been a sedentary people. The bedouins were saudis and other gulf arabs, nomadic lifestyle is characteristics among these people unlike the Yemenites.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Yes,some bedouins around the Sinai and other regions claim Yemeni origin. Its possible that when the dam in southern Arabia broke many resorted to nomadic lifestyle. Check the origin of the ghassanids and Lkhmids in Syria and Iraq most claim Yemen as their homeland. Try to find a book entitled The Sons of Ishmael by GW Murray. The book is a little heavy on Victorian prejustice but it does reaccount both Arabized and non-Arabized bedouins living in Egypt,parts of the Levant and other regions.
Of course the orginal Qahtan Arabs were sedentary unlike the Bedouins.
Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
Remember Yonis is a self hating Somalian Muslim he would give his left testicle to look like and be an Arab. Hence his motivation(brain-washing).
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
im going to go with yonis on this one you are exactly correct yonis far as how s arabians especially see themselves. africa
quote:I don't really understand the purpose of your post...what are you trying to convey?
africa, the purpose was actually was a continuation of kmt for newbies when people were confusing how aome arabs, who have a non-mainstream view, view themselves. the other point was to demonstrate the various phentotype distro in the peninsula especially near coastal region that form entry/exit ways to different nations. ausar
quote:Abdul, your typical northern Arabs are much darker than those little girls on the magazines. Arab media only shows the lightest celebrities in movies or magazines. Lots of northern Arabic groups like Iraqis are a mixture of northern and southern Arabians. Many bedouins originate in Yemen
i agree 100 percent and those girls are not even arabs which is funny but the issue is that these old world regions were and are still traffic ways of humans with present day different phentotypes, and not just the homogenous look which i just find interesting. the major and initial point of the post was to prove that the areas closest to africa had at one particular point in time the color distinction of reds and blacks and that this was not just found on the african continent.
those pics are good yonis. alot of those girls look like some of teh mauretaninan girls and actually look like alot of sahrawis i met in s. morocco.
quote:Both the Lakhmids and Ghassanids were southern Arabian I believe. Both were kingdoms that ruled Iraq and Syria respectively.
yes and no lahkmids and ghassanids actually had northern and southern pop. distribution they never ruled these areas. they ruled areas adjacent to these particular areas and were operating as vassals to the existing empires running simultaneously. this is why the ghassanids were christian and the lakhmids more closer to the persian influences.
so please everybody to make myself more clear. the objective was not to stereotype but to merely convey that the looks of s. arabians come as such and that just like africans the arabians at one point distinguished people by the color coding of blacks and reds. that is it thank you
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
I am assuming that the purpose of this thread is to show the diversity of South Arabians alone, let alone Arabs in general.
And it is correct that many South Arabs look no different from Indians (light-skinned and dark-skinned types) as well as the African influenced populations.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Vida, please don't start name calling. You already been warned many times of this. If you disagree with a thread just refute it without insulting people.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ I think Vida is one of those who equates (confuses) Muslims with Arabized people.
Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*: Remember Yonis is a self hating Somalian Muslim he would give his left testicle to look like and be an Arab. Hence his motivation(brain-washing).
Stupid hoe, do you even know me? Who the hell are you to tell me what i think of myself? You think i need to learn anything of myself (or how i think of myself) from a lowlife potential prostitute like you??
This woman is really starting to get on my nerves even though i tried to show some restraint before.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yonis, the girl is just ignorant. Her rants remind me of Lion! who thought any African who is is Muslim must be Arabized.
And is it me, or does the boy above remind me of Indian actress and female icon Aishwarya Rai.
Posted by yazid904 (Member # 7708) on :
I was watching the R Kelly video 'I'm a Flirt" and there is a very beautiful girl that appears through out the video but she is last female to the right of the screen. She has reddish! hair and great legs. Her face resembls the above woman!
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis:
quote:Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*: Remember Yonis is a self hating Somalian Muslim he would give his left testicle to look like and be an Arab. Hence his motivation(brain-washing).
Stupid hoe, do you even know me? Who the hell are you to tell me what i think of myself? You think i need to learn anything of myself (or how i think of myself) from a lowlife potential prostitute like you??
This woman is really starting to get on my nerves even though i tried to show some restraint before.
I have told you guys before. This person is a European, here on this site to stir up trouble.
.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Djehuti, please refrain from mentioning posters that have been banned. Really there is no need for this and it just antagonizes these posters to return. You have been warned of this many times and I ask you to please stop.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis: Yemeni with more traditional clothes, probably how the Sabaeans looked.
The photos above - not posted by me - are obviously Iranic-Ethiopic mixtures and NOT representative of ancient Sabaeans-Himyarites who were the people which were first called Adites and "Ethiopians" in Arabia and Africa.
The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.
The sword dance of the Sabaean women mentioned by the Greeks is probably still practiced by the Afar women below who still occupy the Horn and the Yemen.
In Djibouti in the Horn of Africa (Gabidae are mentioned in ancient writings) on the Sabaeans
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: The photos above - not posted by me - are obviously Iranic-Ethiopic mixtures and NOT representative of ancient Sabaeans-Himyarites who were the people which were first called Adites and "Ethiopians" in Arabia and Africa.
Yes I thought the same thing too. They wouldn't be representative of the ancient populations in that region.
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
yeah i agree i gotta do a malcolm on this and say this was in my early days. kool beans dana. I was looking at the pics b-4 i even saw your commenst and thought man these people look like al-fars 4 real. then i remembered what muammar ghdaafi said at an arab summit " most of the people in the peninsula are of iranian descent there are a few arabs ,but most are iranian." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k3ZLken_xk&feature=related he says it at 5:17
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
There are many Liybans of Yemeni Origin one of my best friends is a Libyan of Yemeni Origin.
Ghdaafi is a flip flop guy all arabs know that those in the gulf are Iranians. There is a little community of Non Yemeni Iranians who live in Yemen they speak farsi and keep to themselves.
Northern Yemen was the first to become Muslim and follow the prophet. Northern Yemen is also the biggest mixture with Turks.
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
These South Arabian dudes look like the brown skinned Bronze-Age Semites write of the paintings of ancient Egypt.
Comparing ancient Assyrian reliefs of Arab with ancient Egyptians on Semites. Posted by NeferKemet (Member # 17109) on :
What is the signifigance of the thumb joint in the photo that says "also notice the thumb joint?"
My thumb joint is exactly like this.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Yonis: Yemeni with more traditional clothes, probably how the Sabaeans looked.
The photos above - not posted by me - are obviously Iranic-Ethiopic mixtures and NOT representative of ancient Sabaeans-Himyarites who were the people which were first called Adites and "Ethiopians" in Arabia and Africa.
The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.
The sword dance of the Sabaean women mentioned by the Greeks is probably still practiced by the Afar women below who still occupy the Horn and the Yemen.
In Djibouti in the Horn of Africa (Gabidae are mentioned in ancient writings) on the Sabaeans
As the Old Saying Goes As Divided as the Sabeans Bab Al Mandeeb The Gate of Tears
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: yeah i agree i gotta do a malcolm on this and say this was in my early days. kool beans dana. I was looking at the pics b-4 i even saw your commenst and thought man these people look like al-fars 4 real. then i remembered what muammar ghdaafi said at an arab summit " most of the people in the peninsula are of iranian descent there are a few arabs ,but most are iranian." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k3ZLken_xk&feature=related he says it at 5:17
Well that is not surprising what you say Qaddafi knows. He seems to be more up on early Arab heritage than other so-called Arabs. Even knew about some Arabs coming to America.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: These South Arabian dudes look like the brown skinned Bronze-Age Semites write of the paintings of ancient Egypt.
Comparing ancient Assyrian reliefs of Arab with ancient Egyptians on Semites.
The majority of photographs in your post look like Syrians. "White Syrians" are different than the "black Syrians" or Canaaniyya?Phoenicians/Keftiu etc. who originated in Arabia and were the original Semitic speakers and Arab culture. Early Syrians spoke semitic Hurrian and other dialects for the most part adopted by earlier Afro-Asiatic, i.e. Ethiopic populations.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: These South Arabian dudes look like the brown skinned Bronze-Age Semites write of the paintings of ancient Egypt.
Comparing ancient Assyrian reliefs of Arab with ancient Egyptians on Semites.
The majority of photographs in your post look like Syrians. Early semitic speakers were represented by more than one physical type. "White Syrians" are Eurasian different than the "black Syrians" or Canaaniyya/Phoenicians/Keftiu/Philistiu etc. who originated in Arabia and were the original Semitic speakers who were associated with Israelite and Arab culture. Early Syrians spoke semitic, Hurrian and other dialects some of which were for the most part adopted from earlier Afro-Asiatic, i.e. Ethiopic populations.
These same "white Syrian" related populations have since moved with their genes and culture southward into the Iranian and Arabian peninsula. There are similarly other bearded people portrayed with truly brown skins in King Tuts tomb and in other paintings. Some of those paintings of brown bearded men the people are called Fenkhu that is Phoenicians.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Such people in the above photos would have been called "red" by ancient Arabs.
Furthermore, if those men are brown what is this woman below in Yemen supposed to be.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: There are many Liybans of Yemeni Origin one of my best friends is a Libyan of Yemeni Origin.
Ghdaafi is a flip flop guy all arabs know that those in the gulf are Iranians. There is a little community of Non Yemeni Iranians who live in Yemen they speak farsi and keep to themselves.
Northern Yemen was the first to become Muslim and follow the prophet. Northern Yemen is also the biggest mixture with Turks.
I am sure Iranians have been infiltrating the Arabian peninsula for thousands of years at least since the Parthian era. Round headed people are found along the coasts in the early Christian era that were probably Iranian merchants. The crania and skeletal evidence of early Arabian peninsula show that they were predominantly people of African affiliation.
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
I agree totally dana there are many sirnames Al-Faris meaning Faris=Knight and Farsi=Iranian Persian language. U will find this sirname all over the arab world and it has even entered spain and mexics as Alvarez=Al-faris.
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
“Arabian” Arabic and old South Arabian are not partially that old Semitic languages in comparison to Akkadian and Eblaite 2800 BCE.
Arabic= 9th c. BC Sabaeans of Yemen — 9th to 1st c. BC Aksumites — 4th c. BC to 7th c.AD
From the most recent paper on the origin of Semitic. Furthermore, Eblaite (no Eblaite wordlists were available for our study), the closest relative of Akkadian and the only other member of East Semitic, was spoken in the Levant (specifically the northeast Levant or present-day Syria; Gordon 1997), which is also where some of the oldest West Semitic languages were spoken (Ugaritic, Aramaic and ancient Hebrew). The presence of ancient members of the two oldest Semitic groups (East andWest Semitic) in the same region of the Levant, combined with a possible long interval (100–3000 years) between the origin of Semitic and the appearance of Akkadian in Sumer, suggests a Semitic origin in the northeast Levant and a later movement of Akkadian eastward into Mesopotamia and Sumer (see figure 1 for a map of our proposed Semitic dispersals).
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: yeah i agree i gotta do a malcolm on this and say this was in my early days. kool beans dana. I was looking at the pics b-4 i even saw your commenst and thought man these people look like al-fars 4 real. then i remembered what muammar ghdaafi said at an arab summit " most of the people in the peninsula are of iranian descent there are a few arabs ,but most are iranian." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k3ZLken_xk&feature=related he says it at 5:17
Well that is not surprising what you say Qaddafi knows. He seems to be more up on early Arab heritage than other so-called Arabs. Even knew about some Arabs coming to America.
Most Arabs are Arabs in name only. The reality is that there is no single true "Arab" identity and most of that is only superficial through language and culture. The Arab world is fractured along kinship and clan ties and is not unified and has never been, since the beginning of Islam when various non Arab groups became part of Islam and became part of the "Arab" identity. The Europeans during the Crusades and Islamic period in Spain learned very well that the house of Islam was a house divided and therefore has and continues to use this to their advantage. This is a major reason why the end of the Ottoman Empire was an important event signaling the creation of the "Middle East" as a European geopolitical concept. It meant Europeans could fracture the "Arab world" and manipulate it to the advantage of "the West" without worrying about a strong unified power like the Ottomans.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Tigre woman of the Horn
Typical beauty or woman of a Tigre or Tigrinya type
Tigrai woman
Typical Tigre or Tigrinya man
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Before there was an Arab nationality there were the true Arabs. Syrians and Iranian eyewitnesses speak of and were very clear about what the Arabs looked like. Fair skin was "rare" among them and the Arabs called themselves "the blacks".
Today Syrians and Iranian and their descendants who've mixed with Arabians in the peninsula are called Arabs.
Doug - you posted this photograph of a typical North and Central Arabian man from a pure and famous Arab tribe up until the 16th to 18th centuries. I thank you.
Hawazin man with son
Related people were the Sulaym and their dozens of tribes Qays ibn Ailan, the Hawazin clans of Banu Rabiah, Kaab or Chub, Uqayl, Khafaja each described as tall and "muscular" and near black in color by colonialists and hundreds of their sub-clans occupied much of Central and North Arabia.
Woman of the Tarapin clan of the Rabiya
For more info on the Hawazin and Rabiah Kaab peoples go to
There is not a tribe of "Arabs" now fair that was not at one time described as black. And that goes for the tribes that entered Syria, Iraq and North Africa and the Iberian peninsula.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
I said ...Phoenicians/Keftiu etc. who originated in Arabia and were the original Semitic speakers and Arab culture. Early Syrians spoke semitic Hurrian and other dialects for the most part adopted by earlier Afro-Asiatic, i.e. Ethiopic populations.
I made a big mistake here I meant adopted FROM earlier Afro-Asiatic populations not "adopted by Afro-Asiatic populations". Someone should have corrected me.
Most "Semitic" dialects are found in Ethiopia/Eritrea. This is because it was among Ethiopians that the Afro-Asiatic dialects originated.
They and the Cushitic speakers to whom they are closely related are also the only people preserving the true early semitic culture of the Old Testament such as sacrificing goats on mountaintops, reading future from animal intestines (as the Amurru did), etc.
Due to the original land of Israel and the Canaani being in southern Arabia among the ancestors in Ethiopian royal genealogy are Cepheus, Dagon a deity known to the Philistines and Amorites (Amurat or Murad), Bursa (Birsha) and other kings of Canaan and the Amorites (Amurru). It is not impossible that their king Itopis is the same person as "Adapa" of early Babylonia considering the latter has said to mean man of 'Ad.
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
lol Race comparison Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^You're right minor, some just don't belong!
Posted by the lion (Member # 17353) on :
___BLACK______________________WHITE____________________ARAB Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
There is no Arab tribe today who were not originally described as black. This includes especially the the Azd "jet black and "akhdar", Baliy black Baliyun of Idrisi, Dossariyah Dawasir "tallest and blackest of the Arabs, Rabi'ah (Ka'b Muntafiq, Uqayl) "near black" complexion like Galla of Ethiopia, As'ad, Qays Ailan (Abs, Zubyan, Sulaym - black like lava, Hawazin)" , Shammar (from the Tayyi brother of Madhij in Yemen), Anaezah names now known by people Syrian/Iraqi and fair skinned people in the gulf.
Shammar Arab of Central Arabia whose ancestors came originally from Yemen and settled Central Arabia and moved into Syria
Other Shammar Arabs of the Nafud desert well known to have come from further north are the result of mixture with "white Syrians" i.e. "red" men like the Anayza and Ruwallah. The idea of the original Shammar from the Tayyi, Anayzah (from the Madhij "brother of Tayyi) once being fair-skinned was once considered "inconceivable" by their own black ancestors
The Arabs of the time of Muhammed and "the Arabs" of today are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
All original Arab tribes or the original Arabians are described by the Chinese, Iranians, Syrians and Iraqis as "near black" to black in color while those few that were fair in complexion who had mixed with servile people were said to have been "looking like slaves". That is leaving out the later European descriptions.
The Yemen was the area of a battles between Iranians (Ebna) "the red" and Arabs i.e. the blacks. The descendants of both of these people are modern Yemenites.
“The Arabs used to take pride in their darkness and blackness and they had a distaste for a light complexion and they used to say that a light complexion was the complexion of the non-Arabs”. Al Mubarrad 9th century
Sharqiyah man - The word Saracen is thought to be related to the name of his tribe
Who were the Saracens according to Romans who called them maddenoi, Palmyrenoi, Scenitae (the black Banu Haskun Kindites), Homeritae, (Himyarites) Maddenioi (the Ma'adi north of the Homeritae, etc. - "At this time also the Saracens, a race whom it is never desirable to have either for friends or enemies, ranging up and down the country, if ever they found anything, plundered it in a moment, like rapacious hawks ... Among these tribes, whose primary origin is derived from the cataracts of the Nile and the borders of the Blemmyae, all the men are warriors of equal rank; half naked, clad in colored cloaks down to the waist, overrunning different countries, with the aid of swift and active horses and speedy camels, alike in times of peace and war."
Hawazin man Baghid - the Hawazin ibn Mansur of the Qays ibn Ailan and Sulaym ibn Mansur are the typical or North Arabian tribes ("the Kushi of the tents of Kedar").
Other tribes of the Hawazin are described as tall near black and muscular in the Shott al Arab and Iran (Khuzestan) the complexion of Galla Ethiopians by Rawlinson. The Beni Amer Branch of the Rabiah were Qays tribes who had settled in Mesopotamia after the 8th century. The "tall" and "muscular" "near black" plaited haired Ka'b or Chab, al Muntafiq and Uqayl were their remnants.
Earlier tribes that had settled in Iraq and Syria were from the jet black Azd, Madhij and Kudha'a from the Yemen. These however had come to mix with the people there.
“A FAIR SKINNED ARAB IS SOMETHING INCONCEIVABLE OR UNTHINKABLE” - from Al Iqd Al Farid by Ibn Rabihu of Cordoba 11th on the statement of the Shuraiq al Qadi 7th c. a Madhij man (from the clan of Kahlan "brother of Himyar")
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: [QB] Tigre woman of the Horn
Typical beauty or woman of a Tigre or Tigrinya type
Tigrai woman
“a fair skinned Arab is something inconceivable or unthinkable.” Al Iqd Al Farid by Ibn Rabihu on the statement of the Shuraiq al Qadi Madhij Arabian (clan of Kahlan "brother of Himyar")
Typical ancient Himyarite chief - Typical Tigre or Tigrinya or Eritrean man.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Syrian bedouin or Arabs of "white Syrian" biological descent.
The early Arabs used the term "red" to describe the fair complexion of "non-Arabs" and their Arabized descendants. The phrase "red like a slave" is found in early Arab literature. This was of course before the Turks began bringing large numbers of sub-Saharan Africans into the Near East and North Africa.
Hence a 14th century Syrian said- “Red, in the speech of the people from the Hijaz, means fair-complexioned AND THIS COLOR IS RARE AMONGST THE ARABS. This is the meaning of the saying, ‘…a red man as if he is one of the slaves’. THE SPEAKER MEANT THAT HIS COLOR IS LIKE THAT OF THE SLAVES WHO WERE CAPTURED FROM THE CHRISTIANS OF SYRIA, Rome and Persia.” From Al Dhahabi of Damascus Syria, in Seyar ‘Alam al-Nubala’a, (Biography of Eminent Nobles) cited on p. 55, The Unknown Arabs, 2002, by Tariq Berry.
(The term "white Syrian" was used by Greeks and they were distinguished from people like the "Phoenicians" "Solymi" and Amalekites or Canaanite settlers from the Southern Hijaz and Yemenite area - known as "black Syrians".)
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Leo Minor: [qb] Thank you for posting the people who were named Saba and Qahtan and Himyar that sculpted these figurines. Their least modified remnants live in the Dawasir, Jizan and Tihamah, Wadi Beish and the country of the Jizzan and Mahra and Shahra.
Sa'id of Andalusia of the 11th century spoke about the Himyar and Kahlan great grandchildren of Saba descendants of Qahtan -
“Yemen was the home of the Qahtans and their place of glory from the time of Ya’rib ibn Qahtan until the destruction of Ma’rib and its surroundings during the reign of Shumar Yar’ish [also known as Tubba the Great], one of the kings of Himyar. This corresponds to the time of David – peace be upon him – one of the kings of Banu Israel, and to the time of Kykhsrru the Third, of the third dynasty of the kings of Persia; this was some 2,060 solar years after the Flood. Khuza’ah went into Makkah {Mecca] in the land of Tahamah. Wadi’ah, Yahmad, Khuzam, Jadyl, Malik, al-Haryth, and al-Atyk went into Amman and became known as the Azd of Amman. Masihah, Myda’an, Lahab, Amir, Yashkur, Bariq, Ali ibn Uthman, Shamran, al-Hujr ibn al Hind, and Daws went into al-Surat, which is a chain of mountains that cuts through the length of the peninsula from Yemen to the borders of al-Sham. Malik iby Uthman ibn Daws went into Iraq. Jafnah and Banu Muharriq ibn Amru ibn Amir and Quda’ah went into Al Sham.” From Science in the Medieval World Alok Kumar, Sema’an Salem.”
Like the Shamran most of the descendants of Saba and Qahtan are alive and well in their black skins.
The Jadyl now Jadhalin, Daws, Bariq, Ishkarah or Yashkur are modern clans of the Dawasir a branch of the Azd described as Shadeed al Udmah or jet black in color and akhdar (black) throughout Islamic history. They are called by colonialists as late as the 1800s century "the tallest and blackest" of the Arabs. (google books - Travels in Arabia by John Lewis Burkhardt).
The genealogy of el Harith also mentioned Harith son of (bin) Kab son of Abdella son of Malik son of Nasr El Azd son of el Ghawth son of Nabat son of Malik son of Zaid son of Kahlan son of Saba.
The al Atyk belonged to the Sulaym described as black as lava by Al Jahiz.
Al- Dawasir branched off from the Khaza'a and Ghassan or Banu Jafnah over 3000 years ago in Yemen and moved to the region around southern Tihamah and then Mecca and Medina in the time of Bariq el Azdi and Muzaykiyya (Moses).
Shahra with Kathir (Keturah) children from the Quda'a branch of the Himyar son of Saba son of Ya'rub son of Yashjub, son of Qahtan.
Shahra, Bahra, Mahra are mentioned in the Arab inscriptions as Quda'ah of Himyar. The Dawasir come from Azd of Ma'rib like Khazaah and Aus and Khazraj are all described as tall, black and huge and come from Kahlan "brother of Himyar".
Sargon of Akkad 2270 to 2215 BC Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ And? What does that have to do with Arabia, specifically southern Arabia?
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ And? What does that have to do with Arabia, specifically southern Arabia?
Sargon of Akkad was one the first historic recorded Semites of History...
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ That still does not change the fact that 'Semitic' is a language and perhaps culture NOT a phenotype. The Semitic language is a branch of the Afrasian phylum which originated in Africa as all its other branches are found therein. Do you deny that there are black Semites?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ And? What does that have to do with Arabia, specifically southern Arabia?
Sargon of Akkad was one the first historic recorded Semites of History...
... and thus one of the first Afro-Arab men recorded. The name Akkad is supposed to children or stock of Ad. Akkad is a name brought by the Afro-Asiatics to Mesopotamia. The Phoenicians named their towns Cadiz. Notice how even the Tuareg still call their towns Agades while the Cydmusii LibyoBerbers were the founders of Ghadames. Specialists in the semitic dialects should be able to tell us what the root stems from since early Akkadian was first translated by knowledge of Cushitic dialects. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: [qb] Sargon of Akkad 2270 to 2215 BC [IMG]ht
This sculpture of Sargon has been put up by Mike111 and others to prove the Akkad people were in fact Africans. Wearing a beard didn't make one necessarily Eurasiatic in the ancient world. Eurasiatics in the area of the period in fact had very prominent noses - Not Afro-Mediterranean or African-Asiatic ones. Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Man people I just don't see where Sargon looks African. He looks like any ordinary Asiatic man.
Peace
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: [QB] [QUOTE]
The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.
I am only going to say this one time,sabaeans did not colonized meroe.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Man people I just don't see where Sargon looks African. He looks like any ordinary Asiatic man.
Peace
Actually I think that was Leo's point. What Leo is trying to further suggest was that the people of Arabia were always Asiatic which is not the case. Arabia which is right next to Africa obviously had Africans as among its original inhabitants.
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
this thread is hilarious
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by kenndo:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: [QB] [QUOTE]
The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.
I am only going to say this one time,sabaeans did not colonized meroe.
The name Saba or Soba doesn't necessarily refer to Arabians Sabaeans Kenndo. Ethiopians who called themselves so most certainly did live there and in Arabia. Ask any archeologist and then get a grip.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor:
You can also post sculptures of ancient Abyssinians who look the same. Not sure what the images are supposed to suggest, did you want them to look like Nok figurines?
Ethiopians, Sabaeans and Himyarites were composed of the same people and Lyin'ess, Europeans nor any body else is going to change that, nor usurp the Afro-Arabian culture.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Man people I just don't see where Sargon looks African. He looks like any ordinary Asiatic man.
Peace
I agree and he could have clearly been Afro-Asiatic, since several waves of "black" Afro-Arabians including Amurath (Murad) have conquered the area of southern Mesopotamia until recently according to modern Iraqis.
Nice Info Dana, So what you are saying is that Iraqis are not afraid to speak the truth about there country.
If this is the case, then that throws another blow to the racist elites. I read what was posted in that thread you linked to. I just want the TRUTH of this world to come out and I hope the people realize that self hate and denial is not something to promote.
If the Mass(People) are going to change this world for the better and leave this world for the children in a good way, it starts with us uniting and respecting each other. Love hides a multitude of sins.
Peace
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: dana marniche
Nice Info Dana, So what you are saying is that Iraqis are not afraid to speak the truth about there country.
If this is the case, then that throws another blow to the racist elites. I read what was posted in that thread you linked to. I just want the TRUTH of this world to come out and I hope the people realize that self hate and denial is not something to promote.
If the Mass(People) are going to change this world for the better and leave this world for the children in a good way, it starts with us uniting and respecting each other. Love hides a multitude of sins.
Peace
I would say some of the better educated Iraqi's don't have an interest in hiding the history of their country or their own ancestors. Yemen, for example, was once a Persian colony and journalists over there also have made mention of that because people are still fighting in Yemen over the fact that many of the aristocracy descend from early Persians.
Somali woman
Sabaean woman
The features of the Sabaean figurines above and in Leos postings are very Tigrai/Eritrean/Ethiopian and even Somali in appearance. There are thousands of women in the Horn of Africa with the features of the sculpture, for example. I am sure with the many photos you have captured King you have already noticed this. No one can deny it. The hairstyles including cornrows are also the same today.
Tigre girls - the nose coming directly out of the forhead is typical of Tigre and many other Ethiopian/Ethiopian peoples and the ancient statuary of Sabaeans and Himyarites.
Sabaean ruler
Ancient Sabaean alabster with common Tigrai hairstyle
Typical Sabaean representation of a man late 1st millenium
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
Dana I am interested in your personal opinion. All three pictures represent Horner’s ,in your opinion do all three pictures represent pure Blooded Horners?
quote Dana: The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men. Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
the kushites of meroe were not colonized by Sabaeans.
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
I dont see were u get Pure blooded HOrner Leo U Tell me What is Not Pure about the Horn of AFrica mainly Sudan,Eritrea,Ethiopia,Djbouti,and Somalia u can even throw Yemen into this fold because they all look the same.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
sudan is not a part of the horn africa,and there is some differences when it comes to looks,depending on the country and ethnic groups you are talking about.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
checkmate
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: Dana I am interested in your personal opinion. All three pictures represent Horner’s ,in your opinion do all three pictures represent pure Blooded Horners?
quote Dana: The Sabaeans that colonized Meroe (Marwa) and the Blue Nile (Astaboras) were probably the Ethiopians that Herodotus called the tallest and blackest of men.
I'm personally not interested in giving opinions when it comes to biological facts. Actually there were several different black African populations in the neolithic period in east Africa and Arabia. Some people had long-headed narrow nosed extremely black peoples of Arabia and the Horn east Africa. They first appeared in the deserts in the Sahara and Arabia in the neolithic and are represented by such tall slender people as Rendili and Samburu (Elmenteitan, Olduvai groups). In Arabia some of these groups absorbed Sassanid Iranian peoples and Greco-Romans, Scyths before moving back into Africa and other peoples as the large bodied wide nosed, prognathic Ubaid people of Arabia (Umm an Nar) and the very small gracile Arabian groups sometimes called wrongly "Negritos" or "Austrics" represented by some of the Beja, Hijazi Arabians and found along other parts of the Arabian coast i.e. Shihu, Gara/Qara - have also mixed with each other and with non=African groups especially since the Christian era. Iranic peoples broaght a broader head form or cephalic index into the South Arabian area. All of the black groups mentioned especially the small ones were dolichocephalic and the small populations were similar to people of the Beja and ancient Egypt. Naturally, black southern Arabians and peoples of the Horn who have been in commercial contact with Greeks and Iranians since the time of Christ are going to show certain features less characteristic of other black Africans such as less kinky hair or browner skin. Also, diverse Black African and Afro-Asiatic populations have been been mixing amongst themselves in Arabia and the Horn and some moved back into the Horn and Kerma before the first millenium B.C. while others have been moving Eastward which is why you see a variety of types in ancient Nubia as well.
Some of the groups found on both sides of the Eritrean Sea in the ancient pre=Christian era were Hada or Hayda, Harim, Mahra, Bazin, Bashama'at, Saba, Kush, Sa'b, Kor'an, Makhir, Mukharib, Adtha'at, Yubir, Hubir, Atma'an, Amar, Begawi or Begui, Bishar, Madhiy, Abeshat, Bida'a or Bediyat, Bazin, Afar, Anak, Sambara, Lahaba, Falsa and Falasha, Hadahid to name just a few. This is because the vicinity of the southwest Arabia, Yemen and the Horn was once one cultural region. Archeologists have come to call this the Sabir culture, and its antecedents date back to at least the 3rd millenium B.C.
The peoples of the Horn are the result of ancient black populations moving back into Africa mixing with others of similar stock who had been settled there for thousands of years. The groups who have settled the Horn and Sudan were Semitic (Cushitic), i.e. Afro=Asiatic speaking, Nilotic speaking and Bantu speaking. So your question is not really relevant. None of these types was originally more black African than the other, although some descendants of the Axum and south Arabians have absorbed the blood of Iranians, Greeks, etc, after the time of Christ,the bulk of their ancestors belong to populations that have been living in Africa for thousands of years - represented by the Badarian, Amratian, Doian and Elmenteitan and other cultures.
My point is early elongated and Abyssinians or other Africans further south didn't get their extremely narrow or refined nose shapes and symmetrical faces from Iranians or Greeks. it is a type that has been represented in Africa since the Saharan Neolithic. There are also other people of probable Niger= Congo speaking origin who have settled in East Africa such as the modern Nuba of Sudan for example whom are a mesocephalic people that may have little to do with the ancient Noba. Populations move, amalgamate and sometimes adopt names and languages, Africa was no more static than anywhere else. Contrary to Afro-centered fears or wants and Eurocentered nuttiness, no one dark skinned sub-Saharan population type is any more black African than the other although some have obviously absorbed the blood of non-Africans or non-Afro-Asiatic i.e. Hamito-Semitic peoples - especially since the start of the early Christian era. Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
Dana I am interested in an academic source that Arabians and Ethiopians have specific Iranian linage’s which are verifiable via DNA.
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
*edit*
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
the modern noba are mix of nubians and other speakers.some are clearly from the nile valley,some are nubians from other regions of the sudan,and others are not nubians at all.
Posted by iateyourheadphones (Member # 17951) on :
Ethiopians and Other Hoa population do indeed share simmilarites to those ancient sabean groups,culture mixture between indeed occur.
compare these ethiopians, they share simmalar features to modern day arabs.
groups like the Amhara and Tigray tend to have these arab/sabean features.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
If they first evolved in Africa why are they called "arab/sabean features"? Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
Ancient Himyarite coins from Yemen.
Interesting is that they show men with long hair and a headband.
Posted by iateyourheadphones (Member # 17951) on :
@anguishofbeing
The modern day ethiopians are not in the same cluster with the first Africans that left Africa 70,000 years ago, the current day ethiopians are a people of ancestry from Yemen too the Mediterranean.
The only groups in Ethiopia that have a connection with the first Africans are the Omo people (they make up only 2%) while the Amhara and Tigray are a people of ancestry from ancient Yemeni groups.
Groups like the Khoisan are the other groups of people who are also closely related to the first Africans.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: Ancient Himyarite coins from Yemen.
Interesting is that they show men with long hair and a headband.
First of all I see what are possibly braids in his hair second Sabaean coins in any case are said to have been "Athenian style" copies, we don't know when these coins were from, if they were Seres or other coins in Arabia, third long braids don't necearrily mean Iranian, fourth the site says ANONYMOUS.
Last - you keep posting pictures of peoples and places from tribes in Yemen and elsewhere that were once called "black".
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by iateyourheadphones: Ethiopians and Other Hoa population do indeed share simmilarites to those ancient sabean groups,culture mixture between indeed occur.
compare these ethiopians, they share simmalar features to modern day arabs.
groups like the Amhara and Tigray tend to have these arab/sabean features.
The man at the top Marcus has typical Sabean and Amharic features. If you are saying Sabeans are Arabs that's fine but those are features are somewhat different than those of Syrians and Iranians who colonized the Yemen and have intermingled with the Sabaean, i.e. speaking people there.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Leo Minor: [QB] [IMG] Did you find out what part of Arabia the man depicted at Persepolis came from. Interesting that the Iranians of that period aren't portrayed with straight hair.
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
Dana I am still interested in an academic source that Arabians have specific Iranian linage’s which are verifiable via DNA especially in Yemen.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: Dana I am still interested in an academic source that Arabians have specific Iranian linage’s which are verifiable via DNA especially in Yemen.
Actually - I am not - because Iranians (Sassanid, Seres, Carmathian), Greeks, Turks, Armenian and Caucasian concubines and many other Eurasiatic peoples who have come as merchants and slaves to southern Arabia have contributed to the population there which was originally African. So I would be more interested in knowing how some of these people especially the ones that are still speaking both Persian and Arabic are linked to Eurasiatics in general. Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
If I understand you correctly you have no academic evidence via DNA to underline your statements?
Also in your personal opinion what "original" Y-DNA/mtDNA did Arabs have?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: If I understand you correctly you have no academic evidence via DNA to underline your statements?
Also in your personal opinion what "original" Y-DNA/mtDNA did Arabs have?
What statements are you speaking of the fact that Iranians and TURKS came to the YEMEN and settled there?! Well actually I am pretty sure there is some out there but that is not my interest.
The Sabaean dna can be found with the people still speaking the ancient south Arabian dialects Mahra, Qarra, Shahra, etc. I haven't done special research into what the Sabaean dna is, but I'm sure it doesn't have much close link to ancient Iranians, Greeks, Byzantines or Medieval Turks who have settled the area. I'm sure its more related to that of the Somalis and Amharas.
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
A guy from youtube mailed me this; a German expert on old South Arabian who is actively researching in Yemen claims Sabaeans are immigrants from the Levant. “Which I myself don’t really believe”
For the period before there is hardly any from South Arabia, and especially no related news. Sometime around 1200 BC. migrated as a Nebes preferred hypothesis, proto-Sabeans from the Palestinian-Syrian region. In writing and language, he finds "quite striking similarities" between the Levant and south-west Arabia. The new residents from the north brought "urban knowledge" with - for example, a sophisticated stone technology - and took over the centuries hydraulic technology of the locals. On the first steps towards Empire and Volkwerdung there is no news. The Sabaean civilization appear suddenly and fully mature. In any event logs in the 8th Century BC from the southwest corner of Arabia an expansive territorial state, which negotiates with the world Assyria on trade routes. -Prof. Dr. Norbert Nebes-
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Sabaean culture has now been traced back to the Sabir culture which goes back to the 4th millenium BC. Sabir culture. Why would you past a url for an article in German. U will have to translate it first.
And here are a few good articles about the ancient Persians and their descendants in Yemen and Arabia from the Yemen Times.
-Irgendwann um 1200 v.Chr. wanderten, so Nebes bevorzugte Hypothese, die Proto-Sabäer aus der palästinensisch-syrischen Region ein.-
Sometime around 1200 BC. migrated as a Nebes preferred hypothesis, proto-Sabeans from the Palestinian-Syrian region.
Posted by Leo Minor (Member # 17443) on :
Statue 1st century BC. Aden Nationalmuseum,Yemen
Mummy 5th century BC. Sana University Museum,Yemen Posted by Doctoris Scientia (Member # 17454) on :
There's evidence for a movement of Africans into Yemen, this is also supported by genetics,Yemeni populations plot in proximity to indigenous African populations. Another possibility is the existence of an indigenous dark skinned population with physical and genetic commonality in regard to Africans, while being indigenous to Southern Arabia. Ancient Yemeni populations were routinely recognized as "Aethiopians" or "Kushites" in the Roman-Greeco world among others.
"In the 5th century AD the Himyarites, in the south of Arabia, were styled by Syrian writers as Cushaeans and Ethiopians."
Coastal/Northern Saharan North Africans according to the most relavent and likely accurate study in regard to Africans, i.e. the Tishkoff 2009 study, are AT LEAST ~50% African but likely even more in that the Saharan/Dogon either indicates indigenous North African ancestry and/or Eurasian ancestry.
The general Yemeni population would likely fare very similar results in comparison to North Africans. And in regard obviously African peoples in Tihama (Western Yemen and Southwestern Saudi Arabia), Hadhramaut (Southern Yemen), and Socotra (Somalia but politically apart of Yemen). Central and Northern Yemen are much more ambiguous.
It is a common misconception that "pure" Africans with no Eurasian ancestry can only have the stereotypical "negroid" looks or features while blacks who have such narrow or 'fine' features such as the Ethiopians in the pictures above have Eurasian ancestry.
This misconception is of course FALSE and has been debunked by modern anthropology since at least the 40s by Franz Boas and was confirmed within the last decade via population genetic studies. Such studies have been presented here in this forum for God knows how many times but it is countless! The truth is that craniofacial features are the most diverse anatomical traits in the human species and you cannot associate narrow noses and thin lips with Eurasian populaces no more than you can associate broad noses and everted lips with African ones. Furthermore, since Africa is the birthplace of the human species, African populations are the oldest in the planet and therefore possess the most genetic diversity. Since they possess the most genetic diversity, why is it not so hard to believe they also possess the greatest phenotypic diversity as well??
Jean Hiernaux The People of Africa 1975 p.53, 54
"In sub-Saharan Africa, many anthropological characters show a wide range of population means or frequencies. In some of them, the whole world range is covered in the sub-continent. Here live the shortest and the tallest human populations, the one with the highest and the one with the lowest nose, the one with the thickest and the one with the thinnest lips in the world. In this area, the range of the average nose widths covers 92 per cent of the world range:
only a narrow range of extremely low means are absent from the African record. Means for head diameters cover about 80 per cent of the world range; 60 per cent is the corresponding value for a variable once cherished by physical anthropologists, the cephalic index, or ratio of the head width to head length expressed as a percentage....."
Although the passage above from Hiernaux is from the 70s, his findings still hold up to this day and remain undisputed.
This is the reason why racial terms like "caucasoid" or "negroid" are debunked and do not really exist. How can a "caucasoid" race be defined by facial features like high thin nosese and thin lips when such traits are found in various populations around the globe having nothing to do with the Caucasus or Europe?? The same is true for "negroid".
The false concept of "caucasoid" was used to explain not on the features of peoples in the Horn region of Africa but even as far south as Kenya and Tanzania. This is why you find old literature referring to an early i.e. prehistoric presence of "caucasians" in those regions of Sub-Sahara. Even in people in West Africa like the Wodaabe and people in Central Africa like the Ba-Tutsi were labeled as "caucasian" by ignorant white explorers and colonizers!
^ The Eurasian aboriginals above display "negroid" morphology yet they are not Africans.
By the way, the main difference between the 'fine' features of African types and those of Southwest Eurasians is that the former tend to have straight noses while the latter tend to have bent or stereotypical so-called 'hooked' noses associated with Jews and northern 'Arabs'.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor:
I should also point out that it is a well known historical fact that not only did the Sabaeans have trade contacts with Mesopotamia but that they also adopted some artistic and architectural styles from Mesopotamians. This explains the alabaster figures like the ones above show certain Mesopotamian motifs though again such facial features need not be attributed to non-black peoples.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: This misconception is of course FALSE and has been debunked by modern anthropology since at least the 40s by Franz Boas
Where did Franz Boas debunk the "true negro" stereotype?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ In his latest works where he realizes that cranio-facial traits are too diverse within populations to be used to categorize populations. His thesis that 'race' is purely arbitrary and subjective is what revolutionized modern anthropology and debunked the old Blumenbach model. Unfortunately many of his peers merely tried to work around this fact and tried newer approaches of perpetuating the Blumenbach notions.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor:
I should also point out that it is a well known historical fact that not only did the Sabaeans have trade contacts with Mesopotamia but that they also adopted some artistic and architectural styles from Mesopotamians. This explains the alabaster figures like the ones above show certain Mesopotamian motifs though again such facial features need not be attributed to non-black peoples.
Right Djehuti - and anyone who has seen or lived among Eritraean- Ethiopian peoples knows that these faces including the hair are strikingly like the Amhara-Tigrai-Gurage.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ In his latest works where he realizes that cranio-facial traits are too diverse within populations to be used to categorize populations. His thesis that 'race' is purely arbitrary and subjective is what revolutionized modern anthropology and debunked the old Blumenbach model. Unfortunately many of his peers merely tried to work around this fact and tried newer approaches of perpetuating the Blumenbach notions.
**Where** did Franz Boas debunk the "true negro" stereotype?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ He debunks that and all other racial types in his book Race, Language, and Culture (1940) which is based on even earlier studies like his Changes in the Bodily Form of Descendants of Immigrants in 1911.
Why do I get the feeling that your skepticism is based on nothing more than the fact that he's Jewish? You are aware that Boas worked closely with many great African Americans and was one of the first white Westerners to point out Africa's cultural achievements and advanced civilizations that refute racist claims of African inferiority.
But no doubt your Jew-frightened ass will make up something to defame the man. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leo Minor: Dana I am not trying to be sarcastic but you can contact the Univ.-Prof. Dr. Norbert Nebes himself. http://www.uni-jena.de/Norbert_Nebes.html
-Irgendwann um 1200 v.Chr. wanderten, so Nebes bevorzugte Hypothese, die Proto-Sabäer aus der palästinensisch-syrischen Region ein.-
Sometime around 1200 BC. migrated as a Nebes preferred hypothesis, proto-Sabeans from the Palestinian-Syrian region.
Leo - I don't see anything sarcastic in what you are saying. But that is not some new theory - that has been the theory all along.
As I have said archeologists believe that the Southern or Afro- Arabian culture is now much older than originally believed so that now it is probably more likely that such peoples colonized Syro Palestine. However, if you are suggesting the Kena'ani, Amlukh and Fenkhu from the Eritrean Sea who lived in Palestine-Syria were not Afro-Arabians and black you are absolutely incorrect.
As I been mentioning in my posts these tribes are living under their ancient names and in their black skins in the Yemen, Central Arabia and even northward in Syria/Palestine and Iraq.
You are not getting the picture, Leo, or you haven't read the posts. The black people known as the children of SHEM, like those of Ham and Japhet that settled Syria once occupied the Arabian peninsula which was considered the eastern part of black Africa or "Ethiopia" among Syrians until very recently.
The black Syrians or Cana'an ARE LIVING UNDER THEIR ANCIENT NAMES although some clans DISPLAY TRAITS OF THE FAIR SKINNED NON-BLACK PEOPLE THEY HAVE MIXED MAINLY AFTER THE COMING OF THE SASSANIDS. The Kana'aniyyah (Canaanites) were and are mainly living in their lowland south of Mecca and of course settled in Palestine in ancient times WHERE SOME STILL LIVE.
The second group described as "jet black" (in various hadiths) are the Azd (chilren of the Sid/Set peoples whose totem was the lion God "Asad"). They were also likely the Al YASIR or Yisra'el of Old Testament tradition - and their leader Muzaikiyyah who left Marib (the Moses of Meriba - Exodus 17) is also described in the Hadiths of the Quran as "jet black" (though in one hadith he is set to have had lank hair).
According to the Old Testament of the Bible the Kenaani or Canaanites included peoples called: the Amalekite, Midianite, Kenaz, the Hiwite or Hivites, Amorite, Zibeon, Hamdan, and the Edomite, etc. I have several times now shown how these people lived and live in the lowland of the Banu Kana'an a region far south of Mecca in the Asir Tihama and in Yemen and how and when they colonized Syria-Palestine in the middle of the second millenium B.C.an area occupied by those whom the Greeks later called "WHITE SYRIANS". This migration of "when the Canaanites spread abroad" likely deals with the movement of the Hyksos. i.e. Meluhha people from Hijaz.
Let us go over again who these people WERE AND ARE.
THE MIDIANITES
According to the Bible, Madi'an and Madan were children of Keturah through Abraham. Their siblings included Jokshan and Zimran/Samran among others. I have posted a photograph of the Bait Kathir children and of the Maddhij and a video of the rather black modern Banu Samran/Shimron - in the modern European Hebrew accent - who are posted on Tariq Berry's site came to be called Kuthi or Kuthaniyya in Syrian and European Jewish writings.
Jokshan - Scholars know that the Jokshan or Kushan/Kishon were the Kassanitae or Kasandreis of Greek writers also known as the black or "Akhdar" Ghassan (or House of Jafnah i.e. Jephuneh) in Syrian and Arabic writings (CHRISTIANS) - a branch of "the black" Azd of Yemen who had settled in Hijaz.
Jafnah/Jephuneh the KENIZZITE i.e. of the tribe of KENAZ - ACCORDING TO THE OLD TESTAMENT - was the father of Caleb whose daughter Achsa married Othni'el. These were according to the OLD TESTAMENT the First Judges of the Kingdom of ALL Israel Yisra'el or El Yasir. (See Israel, Mizraim and Cana'an in Context - Parts I and II; and See the Bible Came from Arabia )
(Salibi’s, The Bible Came from Arabia identified the area of the Asir and Tehama as the land of Kush still skirted by the Gihon or Wadi Juhan stream today the main stream of the Wadi Bisha - the other parts corresponding to Canaan and Israel and Samaria. P. 175-176. )
Just in case people have not understood what was just written above - the children of Keturah, a people of Canaan, Edom and Samaria whose leaders were Hobab, Aaron (Harun/Amran), Reuel (El Ar'awi), Jeter/Ithran, Jethro/Yathrib, etc. ARE LIVING IN THEIR BLACK SKINS IN ARABIA.
THE AMALEKITES
I have written over and over about the Meluchha or Melukkha who were the PEOPLE FROM KANA'AN CALLED AMALEKITES. , “The tribe of Amalek were descended from Amalek the son of Eliphaz the son of Esau, though some of the oriental authors say Amalek was the son of Ham the son of Noah, and others the SON OF AZD the son of Sem.” p. 6 The Koran by George Sale.
They are usually mentioned with the Canaanites or as Canaanites or Edomites. Thus we have in one book of the Bible, 'Then the Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in those hills came down and attacked them and chased them as far as Hormah. - Numbers 14:45"
According to the founder of Sumerian studies Samuel Kramer the land of Meluhha was “the place of black men” in the Akkadian dialect(see The Sumerians, p.277).
In the late Assyrian era, some of the Banu Amlukh/Meluchha are still left near Egypt/Kamit in northern Arabia and the Arabian land of Musri/Musrah. The Amalekites or "stock of Ad" - as they were also called- are mentioned in numerous Arabic texts and are said to be a tribe of the Mahra people by el Hamdani of the 9th century. They are tall, black and builders of great megalithic buildings, towns and dams in Arabia. Thus the Sabaeans are also mentioned as "men of stature" stature in the Hebrew Bible.
Amalekites are also by tradition the giants "Jababirah' or "Ghebers" who ruled Syria.
Peoples of the tribe of Amlukh still lived in the Yemen according to 19th century colonialists as I have mentioned more than a few times and according to Arab tradition are the Adite king shepherds who once ruled Saba, Himyar and Hijaz and settled Syria, the Aegean and north Africa under THEIR LEADERS (among whom were) Cathim, Darim, Qiyan, Ashish (Sheshi), Ianhu (Janus), Wa'il, Qabus, Khamudei, Samud or Thamud, Shedad, Lokhman, etc.
Josephus refers to the Amalekites as "the Phoenician shepherds". These are the Fenkhu with their Byblos ships as painted tall,slender and dark brown in in ancient Egyptian paintings, like their Philistine brethren.
Philistine of the Aegean "remnants of the Anakim of Canaan"
The clans of the Mahra still include the Samud'at (Thamud/Tsamud) the ancient inhabitants of the Hijaz who settled around Duma'at Jandal in Jordan.
Just in case people have not understood what was just written above - the Amalekites the perennial enemies of Yisra'el who fought against Joshua, Caleb (Banu Kalb) and Jefunneh (Jafnah) or AMLUKH of the RU'AYN - ARE THE ADITES REPRESENTED BY THE MAHRA, tall and black Mahra bin Hamdan or Haidan from the Qudha'a branch of the HIMYARITES. They are found in THEIR NEAR BLACK SKINS IN SOUTHERN ARABIA AND SOMALIA TODAY>
THE MODERN ISRAELITES and EDOMITES, i.e. CANAANITES - HAMDAN (BANU HAMDAN) , DISHAN (JASHAYN), ESHBAN (BASHMAN), KANA'AN, KENAZ (KENZIR'AT), AMORITE (MORAD, etc.
Abu’l Feda born in the 13th century in Damascus refers to Mahra as "the son of Hamdan". (See Abd al Kader a Poem in Six Cantos, Viscount Maidstone, 2004.)
As I have stated over and over, one of the main tribes of the Mahra are the Qunays (Kenaz) according to Arab authros. They are today called Kenzir'it. The Mahra descendants of the Himyarites share many clan names with the Dawasir remnants of Azd who come from Himyars brother Kahlan.
The Gazeteer of the Persian Gulf a colonialist work lists the many names of the Dawasir tribes. The modern Banu Hamdan tribe are descendants in part of the Dawasir people living in CENTRAL ARABIA whom I have said colonialists have called "tallest and blackest of the Arabs". -Thus Swissman John Lewis Burkhardt wrote in 1829, “the Dowasir are said to be very tall men and almost black.” Some Dawasir or Dosari like the Hamdan however have mixed with the Iranians with whom they were allied in the early part of the Islamic era. In fact some Dawasir still speak Persian and look it as well.
The Ad-Dawasir claim descent from the Azd - a jet black people who settled in the Sara'at mountains of the Asir and the area of their ancestor "ZAHRAN" AND IN THE WADI BISHA where the names of their towns and places have remained in place and whom we have shown are the Adites who settled at Marib and built the dam there under their leader "Lokman".
The name Dawasir perhaps not by coincidence is is from the phrase el-da Yasir and is plural from Dthu Shari (Asher) among them are the tribes of Banu YAM (Jamin/Benyamin of the tribe of Judah), Ishkara or Ashaqir (Issachar -son of Jacob and Leah), Makhir/Makharam (Makir - first born son of Menasseh son of Joseph and Asenath of Misra), Barik/Bariq el Azdi(Barak) and the names of other tribes of this apparently early Israelite/Canaanite peeople.
For more information on the Azdite origins of the Israelites read part I and II of Israel, Mizraim, and Canaan IN CONTEXT
The tribe of Moab is also represented among the Dawasir in the Banu Ajlani - whose ancestor was Ajlan or "Eglon". Eglon in the Old Testament was the king of Moab who suppressed Yasir'el in the time of the Judges. "He was the head of the confederacy of Moab, Ammon and Amalek in their assault..."
BARAK a Dawasir tribe - The movement of the Banu Barik (mentioned above by Upton) is closely intertwined with the Biblical story of the “torrent of Kishon” or Gassan, the brook “near Zabid”. Barak is credited with defeating the Canaanite (Banu Kenaani) army of Sisera from which comes the name of modern Sirr Zahra in Jizan (see Kamal Salibi, The Bible Came from Arabia).
Judges 4:7 of the Bible reads: “And I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin’s army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand’?” Judges 4:15 "When Barak attacked, the LORD threw Sisera and all his chariots and warriors into a panic. Sisera leaped down from his chariot and escaped on foot…"
See Israel Mizraim and Canaan in Context Part I for more on Bariq el Azdi.
Other Canaanite/"Edomite" tribes are the Dawasir tribe of Bashman (whom Tabari says were also called Sanbar and Yashbin) and identified as the Eshban of a tribe of Canaanites mentioned by Ibn Qutayba..
Bathran or Badran a tribe of teh Dawasir - whom Tabari says was called Yathrib. Tahash was called Shadud and Masha, the Dawasir tribe of Jabir was Achbar ("father of the Jinns" also known as Ghebers, Kabiri, Jabaren). The following are also Dawasir tribal names i.e. tribes descended from the Azd mentioned in the GazeteerL: El Qamah(Kamwal), Hemamah (Hemam), Nahadh (Nahath), Ja'halim (Jaalam), Al Ufaysan (Eliphaz), Umar ( Omar), Dawas or Daus (Jeush), Ayyan ( Aia/ Aya/ Ashja), Hannah (Anah), Daham or Dahman (Taman/Teman), Kana'an (Cana'an), Nadir (Nadr bin Kanaan) Ghanm (Ghanim bin Nadr bin Kana'an).
Also found among the Dawasir are the tribe of Qainan (Cainan) Mahl ( Mahal'aleel) and Hanish and Nahish (Enosh) all children of Set.
In addition the tribe of Zibeon is called Zabyan, Dhibyan or Dhubyan in Arabic texts and is represented by the small black Janaba.
After the 7th century B.C. Babylonians or Chaldeans - a people known to the Greeks as "Kushites" and very likely a people from the Banu Khalid of southern Arabia ( as I have explained previously), invaded the Canaanite people in Hijaz which included Judaea (Yhwd or land of Hud and Wadd i.e. "the lions whelp") and after the exile these people came back into the Hijaz and Syria where they founded the new Yerusalim in the post-exilic state of Yisra-el.
Now all of these people are still living under their ancient names in their black bodies in Arabia and Africa in fact some in Syria and Iraq. The Kanaanites are still called Kana'ani In southern Arabia , among the Dawasir and in Israel in Jericho, and Samran, Maddhij, living in Yemen and in Syria (Israel/Palestine). I provided the video link of the land of Samran in Yemen so that everyone can see what these people looked like and why the Midianite ethnonym Kushi and Kuthi" for the Shimron/Samaritans came to mean black.
These tribe of Canaanites came from the "lowland" a region far south of Mecca in Yemen and colonized the area occupied by those whom the Greeks called "white Syrians". To get another picture of what the Canaanites looked like we go to the description of the Hudhail living today between Mecca and northward to Taif.
The tribe of Kana'an is said to have come from the Khuzaimah (Kedemah?). Khuzaimah's brother is Hudhail or Hatheyl. Charles Doughty in his 1888 book, Travels in Arabia Deserta, describes the Hudhal whom he calls “Hatheyl” living in the mountains between Mecca and al-Ta’if to the north and in the Marr al Zahran - including the Laheyan clan of Hatheyl (anciently known as Lihyan founders of the ancient Lihyanite dynasty). He calls them a people whose “SKINS WERE BLACK AND SHINING”. (see p. 535).
Thus the ancestors of the Kanaanites and their own tribes are still black in Arabia. We thus also know what the Banu Lihyan or Lihyanites of ancient Dedan looked like. The name of the Banu Lehyan actually comes from Lehi the Israelite of Jerusalem looked like 600 B.C. who fought against the Philistines.
We also know what the Philistines looked like from the fact that they were descended from "the Anakim of Kana'an" which the Bible identifies as the people called Emim (Umayma) a tribe of the "black" Azd called Banu Bahilah. We are also told in the Old Testament of the HEBREW Bible that the Emim, Amorim, Nephilim and Amalekites were OF THE SAME STOCK. Deuteronomy 2:10, Numbers 13:33 It thus not surprising that one of the Dawasir tribes are known today as Banu Nifal. p. 393
We also have the tribes of Sa'ab and Sheb mentioned. Hmmm now this sounds mighty familiar.
Thus, I am wondering where are all these white Canaanites and lost tribes of Israel that were supposed to have be located in Palestine and moved southward to found Yemenite Kingdoms. The notion itself is ridiculous as all of the names of the tribes and their towns are today found in southern Arabia and could only have been brought there mainly after the Babylonian exile since many of the places didn't exist in the archeological record before that time.
The skeletons of ancient Palestine show that a dolichocephalic Afro-Mediterranean did once live there, but were pushed out after the 9th century B.C. and went fleeing apparently into North Africa and into the Aegean where there skeletons reappear at places like Carthage and Cadiz.
Such "BLACK SYRIAN" people were related to the Solymi (Banu Salim) who had founded Yerusalim in both southern Arabia and Syria, the Masikh (Mashek), an Azd people who probably also moved up the Euphrates founded Cattpadukia and Kizzuwatna and other places which are variations of the name Keftiu in and around the Mediterranean. These were in fact the ORIGINAL SONS OF JAPHET.
Needless to say the fair-skin people around the Mediterranean today ARE THE MOST BRACHYCEPHALIC IN THE WORLD. These people were later prosyletized by the original people of Judah (the land of Wadd or Wahid), i.e. the true remnants of the Israelites in Hijaz.
Sculpture from Lihyanite (Banu Lehyan)Kcivilization in Jordan
Sabaean woman of Yemen far to the south of Liyan bearing the characteristically symmetrical refined features of one "Ethiopian" type 5th c. B.C.
Children of the Kathir (Keturah) and Shahra ( a Mahra descended group claiming descent from Ad)
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's Midianite wife Zipporah of the Kenite tribe is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely". Of course these are just two of many examples of blacks in the "Holy Land". Careful analysis of Jewish scriptures easily reveals all of this.
Dana, what do you make of Ausar's past quote below?
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Abdul, your typical northern Arabs are much darker than those little girls on the magazines. Arab media only shows the lightest celebrities in movies or magazines. Lots of northern Arabic groups like Iraqis are a mixture of northern and southern Arabians. Many bedouins originate in Yemen.
Both the Lakhmids and Ghassanids were southern Arabian I believe. Both were kingdoms that ruled Iraq and Syria respectively.
Levantine Arabs have layers of southern Arabian and European ancestry. The same goes for Syrians,Palestineans,Jordanians and others. Although in the case of the Palestineans they might have southern European or African influence. Whatever ethnic group existed prior to Arab immigration also might be apart of the mixture.
Don't sterotype Yemenis either because you will find pale ones amongst them as well as combinations of dark and pale people in the same family. In places like Tihama you find African looking people with a very ancient African culture...
Yes,some bedouins around the Sinai and other regions claim Yemeni origin. Its possible that when the dam in southern Arabia broke many resorted to nomadic lifestyle. Check the origin of the ghassanids and Lkhmids in Syria and Iraq most claim Yemen as their homeland. Try to find a book entitled The Sons of Ishmael by GW Murray. The book is a little heavy on Victorian prejustice but it does reaccount both Arabized and non-Arabized bedouins living in Egypt,parts of the Levant and other regions.
Of course the orginal Qahtan Arabs were sedentary unlike the Bedouins.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's wife Zipporah is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely[/i]".
However, the Song of Songs is not written in the time of Solomon and the name "Kushi" or Kushan didn't originally mean black, but came to mean black in Syria, like Nabit and Kuthi or "Samaritan". There is also of course a tradition that Solomon was black. Solomon was an Israelite and the earliest Israelites Rabbis in Syria claim Shem was " black " Shihor.
Hence Rabbi Eliezar living in the first century calls Shem "black and beautiful". While the medieval David from the tribe of Reuben who came to Europe from Khaibar says his town was region of Chabor of the Bible the land located north of Israel which the Yehud were settled after their capture by Assyrians.
"near which Tiglath-pileser, and afterwards Shalmanezer located portions of the captive Israelites." 2 Kings 17:6 18:11.
Thus, "the name Hara is inserted between Chabor and the river of Gozan " Dictionary of the Holy Bible 1832 Augustine Calmet. This is the el-Hara of Arabia land of the Black Sulaym and Hawazin bin Mansur (or Manasseh).
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
"The Assyrians obliterated the kingdom of Israel in 721 B.C.E., deporting 27,000 citizens and replacing them with a more malleable population.
"The Assyrian leader Sennacherib decisively defeated the Cushites and then captured and looted forty-six walled cities in Judah. the city called Jerusalem was apparently by the outbreak of a plague that struck the Assyrian.
The new king of Judah, Manasseh (ca. 687-642 B.C.) accommodated the pagan cults to the extent of permitting human sacrifice. "
The tribe of Manasse'ir or Mansur is not surprisingly the people from whom the tribe of were Reuben was closely related.
The "Cushi" are the Midianites called otherwise Kush or Jokshan in Chronicles and Habbakuk.
There is also a tribe of al-Rubbaniyan mentioned as belonging to Azd clan of Ghafiq in early Islamic times. p. 92 The Yemen in Early islam
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's Midianite wife Zipporah of the Kenite tribe is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely". Of course these are just two of many examples of blacks in the "Holy Land". Careful analysis of Jewish scriptures easily reveals all of this.
Dana, what do you make of Ausar's past quote below?
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Abdul, your typical northern Arabs are much darker than those little girls on the magazines. Arab media only shows the lightest celebrities in movies or magazines. Lots of northern Arabic groups like Iraqis are a mixture of northern and southern Arabians. Many bedouins originate in Yemen.
Both the Lakhmids and Ghassanids were southern Arabian I believe. Both were kingdoms that ruled Iraq and Syria respectively.
Levantine Arabs have layers of southern Arabian and European ancestry. The same goes for Syrians,Palestineans,Jordanians and others. Although in the case of the Palestineans they might have southern European or African influence. Whatever ethnic group existed prior to Arab immigration also might be apart of the mixture.
Don't sterotype Yemenis either because you will find pale ones amongst them as well as combinations of dark and pale people in the same family. In places like Tihama you find African looking people with a very ancient African culture...
Yes,some bedouins around the Sinai and other regions claim Yemeni origin. Its possible that when the dam in southern Arabia broke many resorted to nomadic lifestyle. Check the origin of the ghassanids and Lkhmids in Syria and Iraq most claim Yemen as their homeland. Try to find a book entitled The Sons of Ishmael by GW Murray. The book is a little heavy on Victorian prejustice but it does reaccount both Arabized and non-Arabized bedouins living in Egypt,parts of the Levant and other regions.
Of course the orginal Qahtan Arabs were sedentary unlike the Bedouins.
Actually I think it is a highly accurate view and way ahead of its time. He knows that most of the people in Arabia that are fair-skinned are the result of mixing. Today there are many tribes in which you will find fully dark-skinned Arabs and fully light skinned. This goes for the Yemen and northern Arabia. It also can be said of individual clans and families.
All one has to do is look at the tribe of Shammar as a good example. One group descends from Shammar Arabs that lived a long time in Syria before coming back into Arabia.
Then there are darker skinned Shammar who look not much different than some Somali tribes.
Although indigenous Arabians hardly modified can be found this peninsula is probably more mixed or intermingled than even the same latitutdes in North Africa has been.
Its also why I posted the article on the Montefiq and Ka'b Arabs written a few years ago by "the Arab Press" copyrighted in 2008.
“There are two main categories of blacks in Iraq, mostly in the south, who total about 300,000: those of East African origin, numbering around 100,000; and those of who are Arab and originate from the Hejaz, claiming to be descended from the Prophet Muhammad, who moved to this country mostly in the 1750s and 1980s. The latter are mostly from the Muntafek tribe to which 'Abdul-Mahdi belongs. But both groups used to be far more numerous in the past centuries, many of them having inter-married with the locals and thus the colour of their skin has since been changed ..."
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
However the idea that the Al Muntafiq or Montefik are recent and descendants of Muhammed must be a newly promoted tradition. in the time of the colonialists who were calling them the complexion of "Galla" of Abyssinia and "near black" they were claiming origin from the Ka'b tribes who came from Central Arabia beginning around the 10th century A.D.. The genealogy is Muntafiq bin Uqayl bin Ka'b bin Amer bin Za'za'a of the Qays Ailan (Mudar tribes).
As I think you mentioned previously many Arabs like to claim descent from Muhammed. its usually a few families that may have come from the Meccans.
According to most Arab historians including a work by Qalqashandi, “the Muntafiq were related to the Uqaylids both tracing their lineage to Amir bin Sa’sa’a” (See The Buwayhid Dynasty in Iraq 334 H./945 to 403 H./1012 by John Donohue, p. 221. fn75, 2003.) The genealogy of the Muntafiq ibn Uqayl ibn Ka’b ibn Rabi’a ibn Amir ibn Sa’sa ibn ibn Mo'awiyah ibn Bakr ibn Hawazin bin Mansour bin Ekrama bin Khafsa bin Qais Ailan ibn Mudher (or Muzar ).
The settlement of the Muntafiq and other branches of Uqayl (Ka’ab or Cha’b Arabs) has been fairly well documented, “…historians noted the reemergence in the 17th century of the Muntafiq as one of the powerful tribal confederations of southern Iraq, originally the latter had been an ancient times an imara (tribal principality) whose Shaikhly house the Shabib family were reputed to be Meccan, had ruled as masters of Basra and al Ahsa (eastern Arabia) from as early as the 13th century, albeit not uninterruptedly..” (from The Politics of Regional Trade in Iraq, Arabia and the Gulf” 1745-1900 by Hala Mundhir Fattah, 1997, p. 29).
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's Midianite wife Zipporah of the Kenite tribe is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely". Of course these are just two of many examples of blacks in the "Holy Land". Careful analysis of Jewish scriptures easily reveals all of this.
I would not be surprised if there were blacks among the Hebrews themselves. Israel lies between Africa and the Near East, so we would expect the Israelites to be an intergrade between black Africans and Middle Easterners.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's Midianite wife Zipporah of the Kenite tribe is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely". Of course these are just two of many examples of blacks in the "Holy Land". Careful analysis of Jewish scriptures easily reveals all of this.
I would not be surprised if there were blacks among the Hebrews themselves. Israel lies between Africa and the Near East, so we would expect the Israelites to be an intergrade between black Africans and Middle Easterners.
Not necessarily.
THE AMALEKITES
I have written over and over about the Meluchha or Melukkha who were the PEOPLE FROM KANA'AN CALLED AMALEKITES. , “The tribe of Amalek were descended from Amalek the son of Eliphaz the son of Esau, though some of the oriental authors say Amalek was the son of Ham the son of Noah, and others the SON OF AZD the son of Sem.” p. 6 The Koran by George Sale.
They are usually mentioned with the Canaanites or as Canaanites or Edomites. Thus we have in one book of the Bible, 'Then the Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in those hills came down and attacked them and chased them as far as Hormah. - Numbers 14:45"
According to the founder of Sumerian studies Samuel Kramer the land of Meluhha was “the place of black men” in the Akkadian dialect(see The Sumerians, p.277).
In the late Assyrian era, some of the Banu Amlukh/Meluchha are still left near Egypt/Kamit in northern Arabia and the Arabian land of Musri/Musrah. The Amalekites or "stock of Ad" - as they were also called- are mentioned in numerous Arabic texts and are said to be a tribe of the Mahra people by el Hamdani of the 9th century. They are tall, black and builders of great megalithic buildings, towns and dams in Arabia. Thus the Sabaeans are also mentioned as "men of stature" stature in the Hebrew Bible.
Amalekites are also by tradition the giants "Jababirah' or "Ghebers" who ruled Syria.
Peoples of the tribe of Amlukh still lived in the Yemen according to 19th century colonialists as I have mentioned more than a few times and according to Arab tradition are the Adite king shepherds who once ruled Saba, Himyar and Hijaz and settled Syria, the Aegean and north Africa under THEIR LEADERS (among whom were) Cathim, Darim, Qiyan, Ashish (Sheshi), Ianhu (Janus), Wa'il, Qabus, Khamudei, Samud or Thamud, Shedad, Lokhman, etc.
Josephus refers to the Amalekites as "the Phoenician shepherds". These are the Fenkhu with their Byblos ships as painted tall,slender and dark brown in in ancient Egyptian paintings, like their Philistine brethren.
Philistine of the Aegean "remnants of the Anakim of Canaan"
The clans of the Mahra still include the Samud'at (Thamud/Tsamud) the ancient inhabitants of the Hijaz who settled around Duma'at Jandal in Jordan.
Just in case people have not understood what was just written above - the Amalekites the perennial enemies of Yisra'el who fought against Joshua, Caleb (Banu Kalb) and Jefunneh (Jafnah) or AMLUKH of the RU'AYN - ARE THE ADITES REPRESENTED BY THE MAHRA, tall and black Mahra bin Hamdan or Haidan from the Qudha'a branch of the HIMYARITES. They are found in THEIR NEAR BLACK SKINS IN SOUTHERN ARABIA AND SOMALIA TODAY>
THE MODERN ISRAELITES and EDOMITES, i.e. CANAANITES - HAMDAN (BANU HAMDAN) , DISHAN (JASHAYN), ESHBAN (BASHMAN), KANA'AN, KENAZ (KENZIR'AT), AMORITE (MORAD, etc.
Abu’l Feda born in the 13th century in Damascus refers to Mahra as "the son of Hamdan". (See Abd al Kader a Poem in Six Cantos, Viscount Maidstone, 2004.)
As I have stated over and over, one of the main tribes of the Mahra are the Qunays (Kenaz) according to Arab authros. They are today called Kenzir'it. The Mahra descendants of the Himyarites share many clan names with the Dawasir remnants of Azd who come from Himyars brother Kahlan.
The Gazeteer of the Persian Gulf a colonialist work lists the many names of the Dawasir tribes. The modern Banu Hamdan tribe are descendants in part of the Dawasir people living in CENTRAL ARABIA whom I have said colonialists have called "tallest and blackest of the Arabs". -Thus Swissman John Lewis Burkhardt wrote in 1829, “the Dowasir are said to be very tall men and almost black.” Some Dawasir or Dosari like the Hamdan however have mixed with the Iranians with whom they were allied in the early part of the Islamic era. In fact some Dawasir still speak Persian and look it as well.
The Ad-Dawasir claim descent from the Azd - a jet black people who settled in the Sara'at mountains of the Asir and the area of their ancestor "ZAHRAN" AND IN THE WADI BISHA where the names of their towns and places have remained in place and whom we have shown are the Adites who settled at Marib and built the dam there under their leader "Lokman".
The name Dawasir perhaps not by coincidence is is from the phrase el-da Yasir and is plural from Dthu Shari (Asher) among them are the tribes of Banu YAM (Jamin/Benyamin of the tribe of Judah), Ishkara or Ashaqir (Issachar -son of Jacob and Leah), Makhir/Makharam (Makir - first born son of Menasseh son of Joseph and Asenath of Misra), Barik/Bariq el Azdi(Barak) and the names of other tribes of this apparently early Israelite/Canaanite peeople.
For more information on the Azdite origins of the Israelites read part I and II of Israel, Mizraim, and Canaan IN CONTEXT
The tribe of Moab is also represented among the Dawasir in the Banu Ajlani - whose ancestor was Ajlan or "Eglon". Eglon in the Old Testament was the king of Moab who suppressed Yasir'el in the time of the Judges. "He was the head of the confederacy of Moab, Ammon and Amalek in their assault..."
BARAK a Dawasir tribe - The movement of the Banu Barik (mentioned above by Upton) is closely intertwined with the Biblical story of the “torrent of Kishon” or Gassan, the brook “near Zabid”. Barak is credited with defeating the Canaanite (Banu Kenaani) army of Sisera from which comes the name of modern Sirr Zahra in Jizan (see Kamal Salibi, The Bible Came from Arabia).
Judges 4:7 of the Bible reads: “And I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin’s army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand’?” Judges 4:15 "When Barak attacked, the LORD threw Sisera and all his chariots and warriors into a panic. Sisera leaped down from his chariot and escaped on foot…"
See Israel Mizraim and Canaan in Context Part I for more on Bariq el Azdi.
Other Canaanite/"Edomite" tribes are the Dawasir tribe of Bashman (whom Tabari says were also called Sanbar and Yashbin) and identified as the Eshban of a tribe of Canaanites mentioned by Ibn Qutayba..
Bathran or Badran a tribe of teh Dawasir - whom Tabari says was called Yathrib. Tahash was called Shadud and Masha, the Dawasir tribe of Jabir was Achbar ("father of the Jinns" also known as Ghebers, Kabiri, Jabaren). The following are also Dawasir tribal names i.e. tribes descended from the Azd mentioned in the GazeteerL: El Qamah(Kamwal), Hemamah (Hemam), Nahadh (Nahath), Ja'halim (Jaalam), Al Ufaysan (Eliphaz), Umar ( Omar), Dawas or Daus (Jeush), Ayyan ( Aia/ Aya/ Ashja), Hannah (Anah), Daham or Dahman (Taman/Teman), Kana'an (Cana'an), Nadir (Nadr bin Kanaan) Ghanm (Ghanim bin Nadr bin Kana'an).
Also found among the Dawasir are the tribe of Qainan (Cainan) Mahl ( Mahal'aleel) and Hanish and Nahish (Enosh) all children of Set.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ He debunks that and all other racial types in his book Race, Language, and Culture (1940) which is based on even earlier studies like his Changes in the Bodily Form of Descendants of Immigrants in 1911.
Again, you are nothing but a bluff. Boas talks about "Mediterranean types" and "Negros" [dark skin, frizzly hair and flat nose - sounds familiar? ] and says they are a race "set off clearly" from whites with their straight and wavy hair and "high nose". So again, please cite the page/section where he specifically addresses the true negro stereotype and debunks it.
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That the Land of Midian was inhabited by black people can be seen in Hebrew scriptures describing the Midianites as 'kushim' or blacks. Those who are familiar with the Bible would know that Moses's Midianite wife Zipporah of the Kenite tribe is described as black and was chastised for it in many interpretations. So too was the Shulamite bride as described in the 'Song of Songs' which in its accurate translation says "I am black and comely". Of course these are just two of many examples of blacks in the "Holy Land". Careful analysis of Jewish scriptures easily reveals all of this.
I would not be surprised if there were blacks among the Hebrews themselves. Israel lies between Africa and the Near East, so we would expect the Israelites to be an intergrade between black Africans and Middle Easterners.
Based on what? Hebrews weren't the only population in the Levant, so a post-Natufian presence of blacks in the Levant, which is almost certainly a fact, wouldn't have to mean they were present in significant numbers among the Hebrews.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
^ ah yes, every once in a while the so-called liberal whites [and Asians] expose themselves. Mary skirts around the Hebrews and cites blacks among "others" while Brandon wouldn't be "surprised" to find blacks among Hebrews. Where else would they be? lol
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
^I take it you are skeptical about black hebrew claims as well?
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
why?
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
^Sometimes it's hard to distinguish your sarcasm from being actually opposed to a given viewpoint
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: yeah i agree i gotta do a malcolm on this and say this was in my early days. kool beans dana. I was looking at the pics b-4 i even saw your commenst and thought man these people look like al-fars 4 real. then i remembered what muammar ghdaafi said at an arab summit " most of the people in the peninsula are of iranian descent there are a few arabs ,but most are iranian." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k3ZLken_xk&feature=related he says it at 5:17
Wow - Abdulkarem I just saw this. Interesting perspective on a man the West has tried to make into a crazy man. Now with all the whacko people I am finding live in America I don't know what to believe anymore.
I wonder how these smiling people felt when Qaddafi said 80% of the people in the Gulf were Iranian. I think it wanted to say the entire people but added that the royal family were not. Looking out at the audience at a sea of TurkoIranian faces he was probably wondering where the heck all the Arabs had gone.LOL!
I don't know what all these Middle Easterners were laughing at either - except for I guess that all realized a lot of what he was saying was true.
Interesting that he acknowledged Spain was occupied "unjustly" by the Arabs.
"Cheyney was friends with Sadam Hussein?!" Probably true and reminds me of when i was in Paris once around 1983 and some Iranians told me the U.S was trading with Iran when in fact the U.S. newspapers were saying they the U.S. was having nothing to do with Iran. A few months after i came home the Oliver North scandal broke out here and it was found certain government officials the U.S. had been involved with military trade with Iran all that time.
I'm sure that the U.S. has been a major part of the problems going on in the Middle East with all of its lies and manipulations.
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
Qaddafi is saying that those in the persian gulf which is really the arabian gulf have all become Iranian elite Bahrain,Dubai,United Arab Emirates these are really Shia kings Iranian decent even some Iraqi are of Iranian decent especially those of Abbasidi.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Qaddafi is saying that those in the persian gulf which is really the arabian gulf have all become Iranian elite Bahrain,Dubai,United Arab Emirates these are really Shia kings Iranian decent even some Iraqi are of Iranian decent especially those of Abbasidi.
And it has been this way for several hundred years. The ruling castes of many parts of Arabia are of Iranian and even Turkish descent and I'm not sure why some people on this forum find that so hard to believe.
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
quote:And it has been this way for several hundred years. The ruling castes of many parts of Arabia are of Iranian and even Turkish descent and I'm not sure why some people on this forum find that so hard to believe.
because of the programming of the colonialist. MOst of the world feed off the colonial methodology. they quote their scholars and apply their methods of logic and rulings. IF you go to the colonized countries you will see remnants of colonialism their from the government system to the school textbooks. this benefits the ruling elite. keeps the masses at bay too., hence the declination of the civilizations the sudan(africa) use to boast. one of the goals of the colonialist was to divide the arab world. Look at who are teh main contributors and authors to the berber movemens in north africa, the authors and contributors to african movements in the sahara and the sahel, same with the kurds,turks,etc.. this is why even alot of afrocentrist need everything to originate in africa. they are really a reactionary group just like the european identity is a reaction to the muslim occupation of the main arteries of the european continent. what this colonial rule does is limit the movements of the so-called "african groups". they come up with all kinds of excuses like far traveling but have no problem believing in arab, persian, assyrian, greek, phonecian, and mongolian massive migrations(china to baghdad to roman provinces?). they believe in the present "arab" look as being the standard ,even originally, although the textual arabic evidences are more clear and in your face they point still to present day representations like a witch-hunting villager. yet they have no problem with the american population not being representative of the original populous. so this only works in the west but not in the preceeding civilizations.
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
quote:I wonder how these smiling people felt when Qaddafi said 80% of the people in the Gulf were Iranian.
dont think that all the rulers are uneducated like the yemeni president. they are often very schooled and quite the carriers of info.[/quote]
quote:Interesting perspective on a man the West has tried to make into a crazy man.
of course. same in the arab world . they say he says things not applicable. they mean not applicable to their policies meaning their pockets. he has oil and manhood so his influence on people must be thwarted with statements like " he is crazy" "he does not know what he is talking about". in reality behind the closed doors to the public and behind the seas for westerners, they cant refute him with knowledge but only ignore him. the things he say is a thorn in their throats sometimes. aswani said
quote:Qaddafi is saying that those in the persian gulf which is really the arabian gulf have all become Iranian elite Bahrain,Dubai,United Arab Emirates these are really Shia kings Iranian decent even some Iraqi are of Iranian decent especially those of Abbasidi.
he is not saying it. he is reiterating what your prophet(as) said, non-verbatim
quote:لقد روى زيد بن اسلم أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم رأى رؤيا وقصها على أصحابه ، فقال رأيت غنما سوداء خالطتها غنم بيض ، فتأولتها ان العجم يدخلون الاسلام فيشتركونكم في أنسابكم ، واموالكم ، فتعجبوا من ذلك ، فقال : العجم يدخلون بلادنا يا رسول الله ! فقال : أي ، والذي نفسي بيده لو أن الدين تعلق بالثريا لنالته رجال من العجم ، واسعدهم به أهل فارس
zaid bin aslam narrates that the prophet had a dream saying i saw black sheep and white sheep mixing with them(black sheep). it was interpreted that the non-arabs would enter islam and share(with the arabs) in their lineages(blood lines) and their wealth. the audience became shocked over this and asked ARE THE NON-ARABS to ENTER INTO OUR LAND. the messenger said (i swear)by the one in which my soul is in his hand that if the religion was situated in tharia(a star) the men from non-arabs would take it and the most contributing to it(the religion) would be the people of persia. Now for those who have a inkling of islamic history would know the last part of the interpretation is evidently correct as is stated by ibn khaldun that the majority of the arab scholars, whether religious or worldly, were or non-arab origins and this is because the arabs focused on ruling and not academia.
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
excerpts of a speech given by qadhafi in kano,nigeria .translation found in tariq's book "unknown arabs"
quote:ان اجدادكم عرب اتو من اليمن منذ اكثر من خمسة آلاف سنة الى هذه البقاع ، العرب هم الذين وصلوا الى افريقيا وهم الذين استوطنوا افريقيا وهم الذين سموا (قانا) التي يسمونها (غانا) . (قانا) هذه جنة هذه كلمة عربية . لانها جنة (وغينية) جنينة جنة صغيرة والعرب هم الذين اطلقوا هذه التسميات ، وصلوا الى المحيط الاطلسي ، واستوطنوا هذه الديار ، اصلكم عرب وأهلكم عرب وانتم قبائل عربية .
القبائل اليمنية التي هي موجودة الآن على خط الاستواء . إن قبائل الهوسا هي قبائل (الحاسة) الموجودة في ليبيا وفي النيجر وفي نيجيريا وفي افريقيا ، وان لغة الهوسا هي لغة عربية قديمة ، وأن اللغة السواحلية هي لغة عربية ، وان قبائل الفولاني هي قبائل عربية ، وان قبائل يورب اى اوروبا بمعنى عروبة هي قبائل عربية ، وان قبائل التبو وقبائل القرعان عربية ، والزغاوة عربية ، والتوارق عربية ، وكل هذه القبائل التي تسكن من جنوب الجزيرة العربية الى المحيط الاطلسي في الصحراء هذه كلها قبائل عربية وامريكا تعرف هذا . ان المؤرخون الغربيين يعرفون هذا وبالتالي يريدون تدمير الجنس العربي والعنصر العربي . ان الذي يشن الآن هو حرب بالاضافة الى انها صليبية هي حرب عنصرية عرقية ضد العنصر . ضد العرق العربي ، ضد السامية لان العرب هم الساميون
quote:Your forefathers were Arabs from Yemen who settled here over five thousand years ago. The Arabs arrived in Africa, settled in Africa and gave the name of jana to what today is called Ghana. Jana, an arabic word, means a small paradise. The Arabs gave all the names you hear when they reached the atlantic Ocean. Your origins are Arab and so are your kith and kin. You are the yemeni tribes residing now on the equator. The hausa tribe is the hausa tribe you find in libya, in niger, and in nigeria. The hausa language is an ancient arabic language as is swahili. The fulani is an Arab tribe and so is the yoruba, or euroba meaning arabism,the tibbu and kor'raan is an arab tribe, the zaghawa is an arab tribe and the tuareq. All the tribes inhabiting the sahara from the south of teh arabian peninsula to the atlantic are arab and america knows this, the western historians knows this and that is why they wish to annihilate these people. the war being waged at the present is not only a crusade but also a racist ethnic war against arab ethnicity, against semites because Arabs are semitic.
(words of Miskeen Al Darimi- 7th century AD.) أنا مسكين لمن يعرفني – لوني السمرة – ألوان العرب
"I am Miskeen-for those who know me! My color is dark-the color of the Arabs!" Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: excerpts of a speech given by qadhafi in kano,nigeria .translation found in tariq's book "unknown arabs"
quote:ان اجدادكم عرب اتو من اليمن منذ اكثر من خمسة آلاف سنة الى هذه البقاع ، العرب هم الذين وصلوا الى افريقيا وهم الذين استوطنوا افريقيا وهم الذين سموا (قانا) التي يسمونها (غانا) . (قانا) هذه جنة هذه كلمة عربية . لانها جنة (وغينية) جنينة جنة صغيرة والعرب هم الذين اطلقوا هذه التسميات ، وصلوا الى المحيط الاطلسي ، واستوطنوا هذه الديار ، اصلكم عرب وأهلكم عرب وانتم قبائل عربية .
القبائل اليمنية التي هي موجودة الآن على خط الاستواء . إن قبائل الهوسا هي قبائل (الحاسة) الموجودة في ليبيا وفي النيجر وفي نيجيريا وفي افريقيا ، وان لغة الهوسا هي لغة عربية قديمة ، وأن اللغة السواحلية هي لغة عربية ، وان قبائل الفولاني هي قبائل عربية ، وان قبائل يورب اى اوروبا بمعنى عروبة هي قبائل عربية ، وان قبائل التبو وقبائل القرعان عربية ، والزغاوة عربية ، والتوارق عربية ، وكل هذه القبائل التي تسكن من جنوب الجزيرة العربية الى المحيط الاطلسي في الصحراء هذه كلها قبائل عربية وامريكا تعرف هذا . ان المؤرخون الغربيين يعرفون هذا وبالتالي يريدون تدمير الجنس العربي والعنصر العربي . ان الذي يشن الآن هو حرب بالاضافة الى انها صليبية هي حرب عنصرية عرقية ضد العنصر . ضد العرق العربي ، ضد السامية لان العرب هم الساميون
quote:Your forefathers were Arabs from Yemen who settled here over five thousand years ago. The Arabs arrived in Africa, settled in Africa and gave the name of jana to what today is called Ghana. Jana, an arabic word, means a small paradise. The Arabs gave all the names you hear when they reached the atlantic Ocean. Your origins are Arab and so are your kith and kin. You are the yemeni tribes residing now on the equator. The hausa tribe is the hausa tribe you find in libya, in niger, and in nigeria. The hausa language is an ancient arabic language as is swahili. The fulani is an Arab tribe and so is the yoruba, or euroba meaning arabism,the tibbu and kor'raan is an arab tribe, the zaghawa is an arab tribe and the tuareq. All the tribes inhabiting the sahara from the south of teh arabian peninsula to the atlantic are arab and america knows this, the western historians knows this and that is why they wish to annihilate these people. the war being waged at the present is not only a crusade but also a racist ethnic war against arab ethnicity, against semites because Arabs are semitic.
(words of Miskeen Al Darimi- 7th century AD.) أنا مسكين لمن يعرفني – لوني السمرة – ألوان العرب
"I am Miskeen-for those who know me! My color is dark-the color of the Arabs!"
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: excerpts of a speech given by qadhafi in kano,nigeria .translation found in tariq's book "unknown arabs"
quote:ان اجدادكم عرب اتو من اليمن منذ اكثر من خمسة آلاف سنة الى هذه البقاع ، العرب هم الذين وصلوا الى افريقيا وهم الذين استوطنوا افريقيا وهم الذين سموا (قانا) التي يسمونها (غانا) . (قانا) هذه جنة هذه كلمة عربية . لانها جنة (وغينية) جنينة جنة صغيرة والعرب هم الذين اطلقوا هذه التسميات ، وصلوا الى المحيط الاطلسي ، واستوطنوا هذه الديار ، اصلكم عرب وأهلكم عرب وانتم قبائل عربية .
القبائل اليمنية التي هي موجودة الآن على خط الاستواء . إن قبائل الهوسا هي قبائل (الحاسة) الموجودة في ليبيا وفي النيجر وفي نيجيريا وفي افريقيا ، وان لغة الهوسا هي لغة عربية قديمة ، وأن اللغة السواحلية هي لغة عربية ، وان قبائل الفولاني هي قبائل عربية ، وان قبائل يورب اى اوروبا بمعنى عروبة هي قبائل عربية ، وان قبائل التبو وقبائل القرعان عربية ، والزغاوة عربية ، والتوارق عربية ، وكل هذه القبائل التي تسكن من جنوب الجزيرة العربية الى المحيط الاطلسي في الصحراء هذه كلها قبائل عربية وامريكا تعرف هذا . ان المؤرخون الغربيين يعرفون هذا وبالتالي يريدون تدمير الجنس العربي والعنصر العربي . ان الذي يشن الآن هو حرب بالاضافة الى انها صليبية هي حرب عنصرية عرقية ضد العنصر . ضد العرق العربي ، ضد السامية لان العرب هم الساميون
quote:Your forefathers were Arabs from Yemen who settled here over five thousand years ago. The Arabs arrived in Africa, settled in Africa and gave the name of jana to what today is called Ghana. Jana, an arabic word, means a small paradise. The Arabs gave all the names you hear when they reached the atlantic Ocean. Your origins are Arab and so are your kith and kin. You are the yemeni tribes residing now on the equator. The hausa tribe is the hausa tribe you find in libya, in niger, and in nigeria. The hausa language is an ancient arabic language as is swahili. The fulani is an Arab tribe and so is the yoruba, or euroba meaning arabism,the tibbu and kor'raan is an arab tribe, the zaghawa is an arab tribe and the tuareq. All the tribes inhabiting the sahara from the south of teh arabian peninsula to the atlantic are arab and america knows this, the western historians knows this and that is why they wish to annihilate these people. the war being waged at the present is not only a crusade but also a racist ethnic war against arab ethnicity, against semites because Arabs are semitic.
(words of Miskeen Al Darimi- 7th century AD.) أنا مسكين لمن يعرفني – لوني السمرة – ألوان العرب
"I am Miskeen-for those who know me! My color is dark-the color of the Arabs!"
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
quote:
he is not saying it. he is reiterating what your prophet(as) said, non-verbatim
quote:لقد فارس
zaid bin aslam narrates that the prophet had a dream saying i saw black sheep and white sheep mixing with them(black sheep). it was interpreted that the non-arabs would enter islam and share(with the arabs) in their lineages(blood lines) and their wealth. the audience became shocked over this and asked ARE THE NON-ARABS to ENTER INTO OUR LAND. the messenger said (i swear)by the one in which my soul is in his hand that if the religion was situated in tharia(a star) the men from non-arabs would take it and the most contributing to it(the religion) would be the people of persia. Now for those who have a inkling of islamic history would know the last part of the interpretation is evidently correct as is stated by ibn khaldun that the majority of the arab scholars, whether religious or worldly, were or non-arab origins and this is because the arabs focused on ruling and not academia.
i read this in Tariq's book Abdulkarem except for the part that said "the men from non-arabs would take it and the most contributing to it(the religion) would be the people of persia." Is that part of the original?
(By the way, I am not Muslim).
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3: [qb] [QUOTE]
quote:لقد فارس
I do believe based on archeological evidence of tomb types, skeletal types, ethnonyms and associated myths that there was more than one wave that brought certain African peoples from the Arabian peninsula and such names as Ghana, Yarub, Akan, etc. These names in fact are said to be Yerah and Akan is also Achan, Qanadi or Ganad in the Arabian tradition.
The people of Yemen such as the Shamran (Zimran) look exactly like many West Africans and the Umm an Nar culture in Arabia shows that large bodied Negroids did look more like Akan peoples then like Cushitic or more gracile peoples. This is why I am not averse to the belief and myths among some West Africans that many of their ancestors had roots in Canaan, the river Firat and the Yemen which is also where the Firat (Euphrates), Tigris, Gihon and Pison are located.
The Umm an Nar belonged to the Mesopotamian Eridu and Obeid/Ubaid culture which may have originated with the Natufians.
There was also movement of the ancient and modern Arabian peoples of Azd, Dawasir and Mahra known as Mahra, Harim, Sabi, Saba, Kur'an, Heber, Makir/Makharam or Mukharab, Alam, Bashama, Mashek/Masaka, Hada, Afar, Hadoram, Ja'afran, Jabir, Badran, Bahran, Shushu, Begui, Bayzan, Ziyan, Shafan, Simbar and Maddhij back into Africa through the Horn and all of these names are still found among the Somali, Beja, Cushites, Nilo-Saharan, Tuareg and Ethiosemitic speakers. They are also mentioned as being of Yemenite and Canaanite descent by peoples like Josephus, Cleodemus, Judaeus, Procopius, etc. These ethnonyms are also those of the ancient rulers of Arabia or Saba and Himyar.
However - the bulk of these people who were part of these pre-Islamic migrations from Arabia had emigrated to the Arabian peninsula during the neolithic and Bronze Age eras from Africa. Hence Ammianus Marcelinus calls even the bedouin - a people from the cataracts of the Nile in Nubia, and some of these people in Arabia claim a remote origin in Africa.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
All of this emigrating back into Africa however occured long before the peninsula was called Arabian - although the people called Yarab or Iarob (considered to be Old Testament Yerah), of course, already bore the name. The time period of these migrations back into Africa mainly date from 1700 to 1100 B.C.
This is when populations of Tihama culture are known to have appeared in Africa and when Kerma shows strong connections with Bronze Age Umm an Nar culture.
The ancestors of the very tall nomadic groups that appear in the Syro-Arabian deserts could not have been much different in appearance then the modern Wodabe (Fulani) or Masai. The ancient Sembridae that appeared in the time of Psammetichus were said to be Jews and Aramaean speakers and had caste of young warrior called incidently el Moreinu much like the modern Masai and Samburu.
Later movements probably included some of the West African and southern African Jews from the Yemen. The name of the Sembridae is likely related to that of the Wa-Sambara Jews of East Africa. And the ancient Sinbar (Tabari says they were also called Yashbin or Eshban or modern Basman) of the Yemen.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ I don't buy any of it. It is obvious all of these claims of Yemeni-Arab ancestors are just Arabization Ashraf nonsense used by West African Muslims to elevate their status as closely related to the prophet. Many African Muslims from North African Berbers to even Swahili coast Bantus do this. What archaeological evidence that supports such assertions exist anyway?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Djehuti cold bodied dana dane
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
First it needs to be made clear "Arab" is a name of an ancient Himyarite tribe historically known as the Aribi and later known as Yarab or Yarub. Most of the traditions related to Canaanites have nothing to do with being Muslim. The primary religion of the Yoruba and Akan is not Muslim.
Also, the fact that there was movement of certain populations of Sabaean (Yemenite) origin back into the Horn has already been established archeologically and in part corresponds to Josephus mention of the tribes of Keturah/Hagar being the Trogodyte Ethiopians.
There is also a strong connection that has been noted between certain cultures of Nubia and the Horn to earlier cultures in Arabia as I have mentioned previously - some of which were and are occupied by exclusively Negroid people as opposed to so'called "Hamito-semitic" looking ones.
I will repost some of the information later. But a good start is - The Sabaean Inscriptions at Adi Kaweh - Evidence Supporting the Narrative of the Sheba-Menelik Cycle - by Bernard Leeman.
Secondly - the Berber and Tuareg and genealogy myths that relate to coming from Yemen and the second Sanhaja wave being derived from Yemen date from Roman times, not Islamic, and are recorded by Procopius and others who speak of "Indian" ancestry of the Moors and their leader "Herakles" (Melukhh Karith/ Harith). "India Minor" was of course the name of the Homeritae, Somalia (Berbera) and Abyssinians (Axumites) at the time.
It has been noted since colonial times, the tomb types of the Tuareg are found in East Africa and Yemen as are many of their tribal names including and especially "Mazikes", Maghira/Makhora, Afours, Iforas or Afar, Inneg or Anag. There can be little question that these camel nomads were and are all one and the same people and that they are among the "Ethiopians" once occupying the coasts of North Africa or "sundered in twain".
Philo Judaeus mentioned that there were at least a million "Judaeans" in Egypt in his day. It is well known that Aramaean Jews called Sembridae were settled in the time of Psammetichus in Elephantine. There are many scholarly references to this that can be published.
Many of the archeological evidences are related to rock art, tomb types, physical anthropology and the "Phoenician" (Cana'anite ) or South Arabian architecture and stelae and other cultural evidence in ancient Sahel and Saharan sites.
I have been planning to write an article on all of the connections at a later time but I will just mention a few evidences:
From a recent article on the Garamantes - The Libya's Forgotten Desert Kingdom - written by Louis Werner Vol 55 Number 3, May June 2004 "The steep pitch of some 100 salt-brick funerary pyramids resembles counterparts in Sudan at Meroë, and stelae under the monuments resemble those of the Phoenicians,...:
Certain customs and cultures of ancient Israel and Cananites have been noted by more than a few scholars as identical to those found in certain West and Central African areas. Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa: African-centred and Canaanite-Israelite - Dierke Lange is just one of the latest texts speaking of these connections which have nothing to do with Islamicization.
This means that either Africans adopted an entire cultural system from pre-Islamic Hebrew/Canaanites or there was absorption of Afro-Asiatics "Hebrew/Canaanites" on some level in pre-Islamic times.
Unfortunately, many people think of the ancient Phoenicians and Aram as other than the black Arabians still called Hadahid, Shamran, Kana'an and Aus (Uz) and Araimah (Aram). Some of these movements from the Hijaz Tihama (Yemen) are undoubtedly traceable in the Berber and Tuareg tombs,others in the hausa and Garamantian area.
This doesn't mean all Africans came from Arabia (Eastern Ethiopia) but that there was definite movement of groups of these "Eastern Ethiopians" that have contributed to sub-Saharan African populations is not at all far-fetched.
Just as the Celts can be traced through their iron age movements from much further East so can some Africans. Sub-Saharans were not as static or monolithic as most believe on some unconscious level.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: From a recent article on the Garamantes - The Libya's Forgotten Desert Kingdom - written by Louis Werner Vol 55 Number 3, May June 2004 "The steep pitch of some 100 salt-brick funerary pyramids resembles counterparts in Sudan at Meroë, and stelae under the monuments resemble those of the Phoenicians,...:
Certain customs and cultures of ancient Israel and Cananites have been noted by more than a few scholars as identical to those found in certain West and Central African areas. Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa: African-centred and Canaanite-Israelite - Dierke Lange is just one of the latest texts speaking of these connections which have nothing to do with Islamicization.
This means that either Africans adopted an entire cultural system from pre-Islamic Hebrew/Canaanites or there was absorption of Afro-Asiatics "Hebrew/Canaanites" on some level in pre-Islamic times.
You are assuming that it was the Hebrews who were the influencing party, but could it not have been the Africans instead? Recall that the Egyptians, who shared the same Saharan heritage as many West and Central Africans, once conquered much of the Levant. Very likely Egyptian influence on Levantine cultures is responsible for many of the cultural similarities between Africans and Levantines that you cite.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Very possible Truthcentric going back to alteast Pepi I and Pepi II and more likely before then Dana:quote; From a recent article on the Garamantes - The Libya's Forgotten Desert Kingdom - written by Louis Werner Vol 55 Number 3, May June 2004 "The steep pitch of some 100 salt-brick funerary pyramids resembles counterparts in Sudan at Meroë, and stelae under the monuments resemble those of the Phoenicians,...: Certain customs and cultures of ancient Israel and Cananites have been noted by more than a few scholars as identical to those found in certain West and Central African areas. Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa: African-centred and Canaanite-Israelite.
Ta-Seti the first state had direct contacts with the Levant before Kmt was a unified state and made expeditions to the west smiting the Temeh,and much later under the chiefdom of Yam they were still smiting the poor Temeh during the time of Pepy II
His majesty now sent me a third time to Yam; I went forth from [...] upon the Uhet road and I found the chief of Yam going to the land of Temeh to smite Temeh as far as the western corner of heaven. I went forth after him to the land of Temeh and I pacified him, until he praised all the gods for the king's sake. http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/harkhuf.htm Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: From a recent article on the Garamantes - The Libya's Forgotten Desert Kingdom - written by Louis Werner Vol 55 Number 3, May June 2004 "The steep pitch of some 100 salt-brick funerary pyramids resembles counterparts in Sudan at Meroë, and stelae under the monuments resemble those of the Phoenicians,...:
Certain customs and cultures of ancient Israel and Cananites have been noted by more than a few scholars as identical to those found in certain West and Central African areas. Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa: African-centred and Canaanite-Israelite - Dierke Lange is just one of the latest texts speaking of these connections which have nothing to do with Islamicization.
This means that either Africans adopted an entire cultural system from pre-Islamic Hebrew/Canaanites or there was absorption of Afro-Asiatics "Hebrew/Canaanites" on some level in pre-Islamic times.
You are assuming that it was the Hebrews who were the influencing party, but could it not have been the Africans instead? Recall that the Egyptians, who shared the same Saharan heritage as many West and Central Africans, once conquered much of the Levant. Very likely Egyptian influence on Levantine cultures is responsible for many of the cultural similarities between Africans and Levantines that you cite.
As I have said several times before the Hebrews and the Africans ARE ONE. The Saharan and AFRICAN heritage of early Levantine NEGROES is also WELL ESTABLISHED since NATUFIAN TIMES until the the 19th century when Hijaz was still "universally called EAST AFRICA". "The Hebrews" are known under their same names of 3,000 years ago in their black skins in Arabia. I have named these people more than once on Egyptsearch.
Arabia and Africa are continents occupied at one time almost exclusively BY BLACK PEOPLE!
Shamran/Zimran of Yaman (i.e. the Samarians) video below.
Abraham and Keturah's children and grandchildren - Midy'an, Madan, Zimran, Jazar (Khazraj), Asshurim, Afar, Jafar, Judadas and dozens of other tribes are said to have been established in Africa when Josephus and other Romans were there.
Are you telling me these Negroes could not have come back into Africa as Josephus and others said they did and added to the other populations there?
I am sorry that you have a hard time believing that Hebrews were Negroes and that the latter have lived many places outside of Africa - but that's the way it was.
In fact there goes Flava Flav at around 2:03 -2:10.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:As I have said several times before the Hebrews and the Africans ARE ONE.
This is beside the point.
quote:Are you telling me these Negroes could not have come back into Africa as Josephus and others said they did and added to the other populations there?
Why dont you address Brandons post head on? Are you assuming that it was the Hebrews who were the influencing party? If so what evidence you have?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:As I have said several times before the Hebrews and the Africans ARE ONE.
This is beside the point.
quote:Are you telling me these Negroes could not have come back into Africa as Josephus and others said they did and added to the other populations there?
Why dont you address Brandons post head on? Are you assuming that it was the Hebrews who were the influencing party? If so what evidence you have?
Influencing what - anguish, the myths about their origins?
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Go back to Brandon's post and address it.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Go back to Brandon's post and address it.
I already did - anguish.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
No you did not. Are you assuming that it was the Hebrews who were the influencing party? If so what evidence you have?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: No you did not. Are you assuming that it was the Hebrews who were the influencing party? If so what evidence you have?
I asked you "party" influencing what?!
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Culture.
quote:Very likely Egyptian influence on Levantine cultures is responsible for many of the cultural similarities between Africans and Levantines that you cite.
Do you agree? If not why?
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Qaddafi is saying that those in the persian gulf which is really the arabian gulf have all become Iranian elite Bahrain,Dubai,United Arab Emirates these are really Shia kings Iranian decent even some Iraqi are of Iranian decent especially those of Abbasidi.
And it has been this way for several hundred years. The ruling castes of many parts of Arabia are of Iranian and even Turkish descent and I'm not sure why some people on this forum find that so hard to believe.
Because of the way Arabs are depicted in the MSM and popular culture from video games to movies. The Egyptian film industry even casts the lightest people they can find. Until people see more footage of more rural Arabs that don't make it to TV screens...some will find it hard to believe.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ This makes Arab media no different from that of India, however I can't help but notice the glaring difference that at least Indian and indeed Western media offers some glances into how the majority of the population looks like even in the rural areas as opposed to Arabia where most of what we see comes from urban areas those communities inhabited by the fair-skinned elites. That the rural populaces were so well hidden from the media, I was genuinely surprised to see that BBC video about the refugee situation in the Tihama showing all those black people.
To Dana, I have to agree with Brandon. The influence you speak of seems to be the other way around-- African influence in the Levant. I think you have taken too much of Salibi's work. I approve of Salibi trying to expose Arabia's black identity and history, but he goes too far when he suggests that various ancient cultures in Africa are of Arab descent.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Hence I made mention of PepyI and II having colonizing the area and seeding it with Kemitic out post and culture,even the earlier Ta-setians had direct contact.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Yes, Levant was merely a Kemitic out-post in terms of culture. Something Mary hates to admit.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL Sorry but May isn't here. You are dealing with Djehuti. And you still fail to prove that Levantine culture is Kemetic in origin. Kemetic influence in one degree or another is NOT Kemetic derived. I know you hate to admit that batty lad, but who cares. Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ LOL Sorry but May isn't here.
Yes she is. She's been here promoting fake Jew liberals like Boas and flip flopping all over the place. Even Great Jew is amazed by her flip flipping. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ No she isn't. You need to accept reality for a change and not your delusions that everyone who debunks your ass in this forum is "Jewish". Again you are dealing with I, Djehuti. By the way, there is nothing "fake" about Boas. His work revolutionized modern anthropology as we know it and refutes racial typological thinking. He has even made great contributions to the African American community as well as Africanist scholarship, but of course your WHITE liberal pretending to be black, british buggered, self knows nothing of this. I suggest you seek psychiatric help, and not necessarily a "Jew". Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
WAHAHAHHA
Again, Mary, show me where he "debunked" the "true negro" stereotype. Was it the part where he writes about Mediterranean types and shyt? ..."refutes racial typological thinking" lol
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ I told you, he refutes race typology in his books like Race, Language, and Culture, The Measurement of Differences Between Variable Quantities, and "Changes in the Bodily Form of Descendants of Immigrants". How about you look those works up, instead of denying them based on your hatred of Jews.
By the way Boas, compares the prejudice and hatred of blacks to that of Jews which is why he worked very hard with black leaders to spur civil rights for blacks and all peoples of color.
Again you're talking to Djehuti. My, you must fear Lefkowitz alot to assume that I or others in this forum are her. I wonder what would happen if she did contact you. What? Pee in your pants? LOL
Your Jew-fright has really become the end of you.
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
quote:This makes Arab media no different from that of India, however I can't help but notice the glaring difference that at least Indian and indeed Western media offers some glances into how the majority of the population looks
there are indians who are as dark as a dinka but u dont see them in the movies. u see a few dark brown but that is it. this is all of the british-spanish colonies, even in the Philippines of all places. a quote from a blog entitled "Beautiful Filipina Actresses"
quote:Let me differ with you here. Not because most of them are not lovely, but because they also represent what is acceptable as beautiful in the Philippines:
1. If your skin is on the light side, that is deemed decidely more beautiful than darker skin, which, incidentally, is the true color of the filipina without spanish, american or chinese blood strains;
2. If the face, and especially the nose - which is more beautiful thinner than the characteristic "flat" nose of most indigenous filipinos - then that is deemed more beautiful. Again, however, this doesn't represent the more ethnically true filipina;
3. There are other differences regarding body type where thin and tall is deemed more lovely than short and slightly stockier, and size of breasts, where larger is deemed more desirable than the typical size, small.
conversation recorded from general people in "yahoo answers" question reads
quote:Are Filipino's racist against dark skinned people? I'm a Native American and have dark Red Skin and get mistaken for Filipino a lot.......but I've noticed the many Filipino's have dark skin themselves....but seem to discriminate against darker skinned people.......especially "Blacks".....I have Black friends and they seem to have similar experiences.............any opinions?
answer follows
quote:It's not only Philipino's it's Mexican's too. They think that if you call them dark, you are saying they are black. They think being black is some kinda crime or something. They make fun of dark people all the time.? When they work out if the sun all summer they get real dark too. So, when they are making fun of dark people they are making fun of themselves. This I don't understand at all? Alot of people don't like their race, who are they to be making fun of anyone??? Not all Mexican's do it, but mostly the one's born in Mexico do for sure! Source(s): My husband is from Mexico and he used to do this all the time, and his friends from Mexico, all born & raised in Mexico all do the same.
WOW!! and this is talking about their own people who would not be considered dark by many,so COULD IMAGINE WHAT THESE PEOPLE GO THROUGH Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Culture.
quote:Very likely Egyptian influence on Levantine cultures is responsible for many of the cultural similarities between Africans and Levantines that you cite.
Do you agree? If not why?
First off -I never mentioned anything about Levantine influence with relatiohship to the Hebrews. I'm sorry that you have not understood that the Kana'anites and Hebrews live today in southern Arabia under their ancient names and had for probably a thousand years before these people from the Arabian side of the Red Sea moved to Syria and back into Africa.
Most of the people I am talking about moved by way of the Red Sea from Yemen - where people named Keturah (Keturah), Kana'an, Hubir, Hud have always lived - back into Africa.
I am sorry people still think based on European misinterpretations of the Old Testament that that most of these people eft and made some migration to Syria, but I can assure you that based on archeological evidence they did not.
Taif, Medina and Khaibar were about the farthest North most of these people ever got. Lachich, Sinai, Fanikha, Futayma (Pithom), Ra msses and Mt. Horeb etc are all place names in southwest Arabia today. And as I have shown the people names of the Hebrews are still there as well.
I guess I will have to post some pages from, The Bible Came from Arabia.
I do believe also that many of the rulers of the Yemen were of Nubian and Egyptian origin (based on the Ethiopian King list) just as the Hyksos (Amlukha) kings Sheshi, Nakhi and certain later Egyptian "pharoahs etc.were of Yemenite origin, i.e. from the lowland of Kena'ana.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I told you, he refutes race typology in his books like Race, Language, and Culture, The Measurement of Differences Between Variable Quantities, and "Changes in the Bodily Form of Descendants of Immigrants".
LOL You lying evasive sack of shyt. We are back to square one and your dumbass not being able to quote where addresses the stereotype and "debunk" it. Well I wont be chasing your lying flip flopping ass over the place. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL typical frustration leading to ad-hominem cursing. I expect nothing less from a pathetic loser fag who spends his whole life in fear of Jews. Where did I lie or evade? Of course I didn't. I cited the books where it is found. I personally don't have the books with me to give the exact quote and page number, but I did read some pages from his 'Race and Culture' book years ago to know that he refutes racial typology. And even if I did provide the actual quote and page number, I doubt it will do anything to change your attitude about him as it is him being Jewish and not his work that you have a problem with.
Therefore, you b|tchass like lyingass will be on ignore like the mentally degenerate troll that you are.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
quote:This makes Arab media no different from that of India, however I can't help but notice the glaring difference that at least Indian and indeed Western media offers some glances into how the majority of the population looks
there are indians who are as dark as a dinka but u dont see them in the movies. u see a few dark brown but that is it. this is all of the british-spanish colonies, even in the Philippines of all places. a quote from a blog entitled "Beautiful Filipina Actresses"
quote:Let me differ with you here. Not because most of them are not lovely, but because they also represent what is acceptable as beautiful in the Philippines:
1. If your skin is on the light side, that is deemed decidely more beautiful than darker skin, which, incidentally, is the true color of the filipina without spanish, american or chinese blood strains;
2. If the face, and especially the nose - which is more beautiful thinner than the characteristic "flat" nose of most indigenous filipinos - then that is deemed more beautiful. Again, however, this doesn't represent the more ethnically true filipina;
3. There are other differences regarding body type where thin and tall is deemed more lovely than short and slightly stockier, and size of breasts, where larger is deemed more desirable than the typical size, small.
conversation recorded from general people in "yahoo answers" question reads
quote:Are Filipino's racist against dark skinned people? I'm a Native American and have dark Red Skin and get mistaken for Filipino a lot.......but I've noticed the many Filipino's have dark skin themselves....but seem to discriminate against darker skinned people.......especially "Blacks".....I have Black friends and they seem to have similar experiences.............any opinions?
answer follows
quote:It's not only Philipino's it's Mexican's too. They think that if you call them dark, you are saying they are black. They think being black is some kinda crime or something. They make fun of dark people all the time.? When they work out if the sun all summer they get real dark too. So, when they are making fun of dark people they are making fun of themselves. This I don't understand at all? Alot of people don't like their race, who are they to be making fun of anyone??? Not all Mexican's do it, but mostly the one's born in Mexico do for sure! Source(s): My husband is from Mexico and he used to do this all the time, and his friends from Mexico, all born & raised in Mexico all do the same.
WOW!! and this is talking about their own people who would not be considered dark by many,so COULD IMAGINE WHAT THESE PEOPLE GO THROUGH
Abdul, don't get me started on my people! I am more than well aware of the colorism and color prejudice that goes on in the Philippines. I've been to the country 4 times, and I still get shocked and disgusted by the advertisements for skin lightening like on bill boards, radio, and especially the horrendous commercials on TV or the fact that they have skin lightening 'centers'! As if having dark skin is a condition that has to be treated. It's true, the Philippines has been colonized much more mentally than physically. The Spanish presence in the Philippines was never as great as it was in Latin America but their legacy of 'fair is better' lingers on along with some sexist notions.
And yes, unfortunately there is still discrimination against the Aetas (aboriginals, called 'Negritos' by the Spaniards) of the Philippines. The only Aetas I've seen were on TV and they usually get comedic roles.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: but I did read some pages from his 'Race and Culture' book years ago to know that he refutes racial typology.
LOL "some pages". He does not refute the "true negro" stereotype. You are a liar. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: but I did read some pages from his 'Race and Culture' book years ago to know that he refutes racial typology.
LOL "some pages". He does not refute the "true negro" stereotype. You are a liar.
Anguish - I don't know what your beef with Jews is or if you are palestinian or something. But what is absolutely certain is that the most progressive people in the world and in the U.S. are found among THE JEWS. Granted many Zionists and Zionist lovers in Syria/Palestinwe and the U.S. are racist aside from engaging in NAZI like tactics and criminality. That doesn't tar all European Jews.
There is nobody going to tell me that the most progressive, humane and humanistic people in Europe and in the West are not presently among THE EUROPEAN JEWS.
AND THANK GOD THEY EXIST otherwise we'd only have Euronuts of various types living today!
Some of my heroes are the jewish people Euronuts love to hate, Noam Chomsky, Julius Rosenwald, William Loren Katz, Kuntzler, and many others and now Alan Grayson - who have kept the West focused on Social Justicse issues.
There is no question that there are two extremes in the European Jewish community with regards to social justice issues in the U.S. and around the world. In fact the only way you will learn about the racist basis of Zionism is from Jewish Professors.
Regardless of the dark diabolical elements amongst the Jewish community especially in Israel, trying to attack or create hatred for a people who make up a small minority of the world's population which has been harassed and isolated for thousands of years is in my view cowardly, lowly and irresponsible - as well as equally evil.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
What does all this have to do with the fact that no where does Boas debunk the true negro stereotype? I mean really?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
Anguish - the real question is what does being Jewish have to do with being fake, liberal or flipfopping if Boaz did indeed do it. You obviously see some connection as shown by your statements.
"Yes she is. She's been here promoting fake Jew liberals like Boas and flip flopping all over the place. Even Great Jew is amazed by her flip flipping. "
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
He is Jewish, he is a fake liberal. I will not say otherwise until I see evidence otherwise.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
I asked what's the connection. Why avoid the question.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Question was based on a fallacy. Where did I say being Jewish is connected to flip flopping etc?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Question was based on a fallacy. Where did I say being Jewish is connected to flip flopping etc?
So what is it based on why throw the word Jew or Jewish in there if it isn't relevant to your discussion.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
You got the wrong target. It was Mary who threw in his Jewishness and his liberal politics with the NAACP.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
No anguish - its you who keeps pounding on the matter and linking it Boaz's jewishness to being a fake and flip flopper. Let us not be Snake like and weasel out of this.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Yep, figured as much. If he were Turkish or German and I had done the same I doubt you would be so hypersensitive, Judeophile. he he he
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: Yep, figured as much. If he were Turkish or German and I had done the same I doubt you would be so hypersensitive, Judeophile. he he he
Actually I don't believe you Judeophobe. ha, ha, ha you'd have to post where you've did this before. Anyway I'm done talking about your hatreds.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Dana, you waste your time and energy arguing with a Judeophobe. Anguishedofbeing is merely anguished of being Jew-frightened. Notice that anyone who argues against him (let alone debunks him) gets accused of being a "Jew". One guy who has made excellent contributions to this forum but no longer posts here, was even accused of being a "Jew" when he decimated 'Anguished' in several threads too many, even though he was a BLACK South African. He does this all the time. He even refers to me as "she" and "her" and calls me "Mary" because he thinks I am Mary Lefkowitz. LMAO
Obviously you are dealing with a psychopath who sees "Jewish" enemies everywhere, yet I doubt he is able to get anywhere near a Jew without running away screaming or pissing his panties.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Anguish - I don't know what your beef with Jews is or if you are palestinian or something. But what is absolutely certain is that the most progressive people in the world and in the U.S. are found among THE JEWS. Granted many Zionists and Zionist lovers in Syria/Palestinwe and the U.S. are racist aside from engaging in NAZI like tactics and criminality. That doesn't tar all European Jews.
There is nobody going to tell me that the most progressive, humane and humanistic people in Europe and in the West are not presently among THE EUROPEAN JEWS.
AND THANK GOD THEY EXIST otherwise we'd only have Euronuts of various types living today!
Some of my heroes are the jewish people Euronuts love to hate, Noam Chomsky, Julius Rosenwald, William Loren Katz, Kuntzler, and many others and now Alan Grayson - who have kept the West focused on Social Justicse issues.
There is no question that there are two extremes in the European Jewish community with regards to social justice issues in the U.S. and around the world. In fact the only way you will learn about the racist basis of Zionism is from Jewish Professors.
Regardless of the dark diabolical elements amongst the Jewish community especially in Israel, trying to attack or create hatred for a people who make up a small minority of the world's population which has been harassed and isolated for thousands of years is in my view cowardly, lowly and irresponsible - as well as equally evil.
Thankyou, Dana! Many people like the great Jew-frightened-ass love to bring up how 'racist' Jews are forgetting that Jewry is not monolithic and that not even all Jews are white or of European descent! And even among those of European descent, the vast majority of them are NOT racist and acknowledge to do so would go against their very beliefs which is why Jews were the single subgroup of whites that has done the MOST to end racism and bring about civil rights for all peoples of color, especially blacks!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeingajewfrightenedsissy: Yep, figured as much. If he were Turkish or German and I had done the same I doubt you would be so hypersensitive, Judeophile. he he he
WRONG. You see unlike YOU it does not matter to us what his origin, religion, or creed is.
quote: You got the wrong target. It was Mary who threw in his Jewishness and his liberal politics with the NAACP.
Again I Djehuti not "Mary" only threw that in when you questioned what I stated about him. I could just sense the skepticism in you writing and logically deduced that the only reason you felt this way was because he was a Jew. To "throw" it out there was only to make YOU throw out your irrational hate and prejudice. And of course, IT WORKED. Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
Will we ever see you produce that quote or a section of a book where the Jew Boas debunks the "true negro" stereotype"? Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yes, once I find the book that shows his findings that racial typology is invalid. Of course.
Will we ever see you NOT so hateful and fearful of Jews. Answer: NEVER! Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes, once I find the book that shows his findings that racial typology is invalid. Of course.
translation: dont hold your breath WAWAWAHAHAHAHAHA
aren't you tired of being exposed as a focking fraud Mary?
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Dana, you waste your time and energy arguing with a Judeophobe. Anguishedofbeing is merely anguished of being Jew-frightened. Notice that anyone who argues against him (let alone debunks him) gets accused of being a "Jew". One guy who has made excellent contributions to this forum but no longer posts here, was even accused of being a "Jew" when he decimated 'Anguished' in several threads too many, even though he was a BLACK South African. He does this all the time. He even refers to me as "she" and "her" and calls me "Mary" because he thinks I am Mary Lefkowitz. LMAO
Obviously you are dealing with a psychopath who sees "Jewish" enemies everywhere, yet I doubt he is able to get anywhere near a Jew without running away screaming or pissing his panties.
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Anguish - I don't know what your beef with Jews is or if you are palestinian or something. But what is absolutely certain is that the most progressive people in the world and in the U.S. are found among THE JEWS. Granted many Zionists and Zionist lovers in Syria/Palestinwe and the U.S. are racist aside from engaging in NAZI like tactics and criminality. That doesn't tar all European Jews.
There is nobody going to tell me that the most progressive, humane and humanistic people in Europe and in the West are not presently among THE EUROPEAN JEWS.
AND THANK GOD THEY EXIST otherwise we'd only have Euronuts of various types living today!
Some of my heroes are the jewish people Euronuts love to hate, Noam Chomsky, Julius Rosenwald, William Loren Katz, Kuntzler, and many others and now Alan Grayson - who have kept the West focused on Social Justicse issues.
There is no question that there are two extremes in the European Jewish community with regards to social justice issues in the U.S. and around the world. In fact the only way you will learn about the racist basis of Zionism is from Jewish Professors.
Regardless of the dark diabolical elements amongst the Jewish community especially in Israel, trying to attack or create hatred for a people who make up a small minority of the world's population which has been harassed and isolated for thousands of years is in my view cowardly, lowly and irresponsible - as well as equally evil.
Thankyou, Dana! Many people like the great Jew-frightened-ass love to bring up how 'racist' Jews are forgetting that Jewry is not monolithic and that not even all Jews are white or of European descent! And even among those of European descent, the vast majority of them are NOT racist and acknowledge to do so would go against their very beliefs which is why Jews were the single subgroup of whites that has done the MOST to end racism and bring about civil rights for all peoples of color, especially blacks!
I agree and, actually - I am noticing every conversation he enters ends up being something with the word Jew in it. It's a shame we have so many people on a forum about history with some kind of political or nationalist axe to grind which only gets in the way of anyone accepting what they say, and in the way of them learning what is factual and incontrovertible evidence. It really gets exhausting just conversing with such people.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: and in the way of them learning what is factual and incontrovertible evidence.
Yes, I like that, "factual and incontrovertible evidence". Ok lets have it. Where is the factual and incontrovertible evidence that the Jew Boas debunks the "true negro" stereotype?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: I agree and, actually - I am noticing every conversation he enters ends up being something with the word Jew in it. It's a shame we have so many people on a forum about history with some kind of political or nationalist axe to grind which only gets in the way of anyone accepting what they say, and in the way of them learning what is factual and incontrovertible evidence. It really gets exhausting just conversing with such people.
It's called neuroses, all trolls have them. In the case of Anguished, he is a judeophobe. But you're right there is no getting anywhere with such people who can't accept fact over their own irrational biases and fears. Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
I've already accepted the fact that you misrepresented Boas' work. Not because he was Jewish you have to go make up shyt about him Mary. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL. I misrepresent nothing, you dishonest cocksucker. If you want to get into Boas, go ahead and start another thread. In the mean time this thread is about South Arabian types.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
No Mary, you're the one sucking Jewish dicks as all you do is go around misrepresenting their work. Franz Boas is just your latest client.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: and in the way of them learning what is factual and incontrovertible evidence.
Yes, I like that, "factual and incontrovertible evidence". Ok lets have it. Where is the factual and incontrovertible evidence that the Jew Boas debunks the "true negro" stereotype?
First of all I wasn't talking with regard to your argument with with, Djehuti. I hope you are not black American, anguish, because your hatred of Jews is really unfathomable and frankly - scary. Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
so is your undying love for white Jews. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Nobody in here loves Jews anymore than any other group of people, but it's obvious your hatred and overall fear of Jews has gotten the better of you long time ago. It is rather pathetic really. Why look how you stray from the actual topic of this forum and dedicate about a dozen posts on Jews alone when I bring up one expert who happens to be Jewish! LOL Thus, considering your obsession with Jews, one might ask do YOU secretly have a thing for them?!
Now again, the topic of this thread is South Arabian types. If you want to discuss Boas, please do so in another thread although you've failed to prove how anything I said about him and his work is a lie. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: so is your undying love for white Jews.
And you can include white Iranians, Turks. Americans and Germans too! Certainly don't want to give the wrong impression here. I have met some very nice Iranians and I hear the country is very beautiful ecologically - speaking. Good for tourism. Probably like the Switzerland of the Middle East. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
I found out that the Hadorab and the Hadoram or Hadramis (ancient Adramitae of Saba or southern Arabia), but learned that the later term for them further north is Djurham only this past couple of years.
This means essentially there were originally no south Arabian types and that both North and South were occupied by the same people among whom were the Hadorab Bedja and Tigrai related Sabaeans.
The idea that Arabia was a region ethnically distinct from Africans is a recent one that dates from sometime in the last several centuries.
This is why everything is of the Nile was called Arabia by the Greeks in the time of Strabo and Diodorus.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: so is your undying love for white Jews.
And you can include white Iranians,
I luv em too!
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing: so is your undying love for white Jews.
And you can include white Iranians,
I luv em too!
I don't get it. There was no image. What was the link for anguish. Now I have to go to bed with images of two teenagers being beaten by a mob in my head. Not to mention the women buried alive in Baluchistan. Thanks! Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
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Tigre girls - the nose coming directly out of the forhead is typical of Tigre and many other Ethiopian/Ethiopian peoples and the ancient statuary of Sabaeans and Himyarites. 
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I'm sure its more related to that of the Somalis and Amharas.
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you'd have to post where you've did this before. Anyway I'm done talking about your hatreds.
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