quote:

---

I am aware that the Lemba have much Cohen in them, but there is no evidence of them ever being in the levant or being from Mesopotamia so maybe thats a good start to their Tom foolery and specious claims to the Bible stories

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
Well the problem with this question is that there are no such thing as Isrealites in history only in the bible so it is hard to answer. If you are a believer in the Bible it will be difficult for you to accept this.

I am aware that the Lemba have much Cohen in them, but there is no evidence of them ever being in the levant or being from Mesopotamia so maybe thats a good start to their Tom foolery and specious claims to the Bible stories.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
Here's something from wikipedia about African Jews...take it for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Africa

---

I actually read up on that, pretty intrusting stuff, especially about the Nigerian Jews, I thought pre-colonial, especially southern, Nigeria was pretty isolated from the mediterranean world, at least with regards to religion. Guess I was wrong, lol....... Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
Well the problem with this question is that there are no such thing as Isrealites in history only in the bible so it is hard to answer. If you are a believer in the Bible it will be difficult for you to accept this.

I am aware that the Lemba have much Cohen in them, but there is no evidence of them ever being in the levant or being from Mesopotamia so maybe thats a good start to their Tom foolery and specious claims to the Bible stories.

---

You're contradicting yourself. The genetic evidence proves they have a relation with those groups in the Levant...what are you talking about. The question you're probably thinking is, "have they always been Black"...I say yes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obelisk_18:
Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants

---

quote:

---

the cohen haplotypes come from Middle eastern arab type people and there is no evidence of the Lemba being in the Levant

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
The Lemba are convert Jews that have nothing to do with Isrealites or anything in the Bible

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
Well the problem with this question is that there are no such thing as Isrealites in history only in the bible so it is hard to answer. If you are a believer in the Bible it will be difficult for you to accept this.

I am aware that the Lemba have much Cohen in them, but there is no evidence of them ever being in the levant or being from Mesopotamia so maybe thats a good start to their Tom foolery and specious claims to the Bible stories.

---

You're contradicting yourself. The genetic evidence proves they have a relation with those groups in the Levant...what are you talking about. The question you're probably thinking is, "have they always been Black"...I say yes.

---

No the cohen haplotypes come from Middle eastern arab type people and there is no evidence of the Lemba being in the Levant.

They probably received these genes during Phonecian period and involvement in South Africa and thier gold mines. Remember the Lemba practiced inbreeding for quite a while hence the high frequency of cohen in black South Africans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obelisk_18:
Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants

---

Yes indeed. Big Pimping, in a medieval sort of way! haha

Vida,
You got the era mixed up. Mining in South Africa is a recent event and the Phoenicians, the stuff is off the map! What do Phoenicians have to do with Cohanim unless of course they possess the same gene in Southern Africa!!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

No the cohen haplotypes come from Middle eastern arab type people and there is no evidence of the Lemba being in the Levant.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

No the cohen haplotypes come from Middle eastern arab type people and there is no evidence of the Lemba being in the Levant.

---

What did you think the Lemba Buba clan were referring to, if not ancestry from "southwest Asia"? They are talking about their 'ancestry', not themselves.

BTW, can you tell us about how the Lemba came to adopt their "Jewish" traditions.

---

Ok, so why don't African Americans CLAIM their Scottish, Welsh and Irish ancestory and then go all the way to say Scotts, Welsh and Irish people are black lol?

The original people with this Cohen weren't black so for Lemba to claim they are from the original Isrealites is rediculous.

But I don't know; African Americans have always loved to claim how "mixed" they are and their non African ancestory so I guess loser negros don't just exist in the Americas and East Africa, but now South Africa too

It is not looking to good for the black race..oops I mean people *sniff*.

Not only that; these people seperate themselves from other AFricans and claim they built everything in southern Africa which is a LIE and they say their noses is different than other Africans and would only mix with Asians and not other blacks. So **** these piece of **** Lembas.

The only reason African Americans even care about these people is because they believe in this silly Bible and want this fake spook God to exist and grant certain people privelages, yet these Lemba are discriminated by the other Jews LMAO go figure. Where is your GOD now!!
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
Vida,
Are you chemically dependent? Where are you sources for the statements that you made? You just ramble on about nothing and seem to be interested in topics but then go off on a tangent about God-knows-what? DNA doesn't lie. You seem to be a proponent of this White supremacy nonsense thinking that Black people have this innate desire to align themselves somehow with White/lighter-skinned people. As if this is the ultimate form of validation. If you were truly a native Black African, you would have no desire to do this. The Lemba are Hebrews not Jews. Furthermore, if you were truly African, you would know that we are identified by our family groups/tribes (I hate that word). It was never about skin color. Before you post, please THINK about what it is you want to say, noting that sometimes it is better not to say anything at all and just READ. Stop trying to make this very intellectual message board a freak show.
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 
http://www.haruth.com/JewsLemba.html

Right here babe.

1. You need to address what I said and or refute it.

2. I don't understand what you mean about DNA doesn't lie because I never said it did.

3. I am not a native African I am third generation African American, all of my grand parents came to this country in the 40's. I am as American as an African can get and I know African American pseudo culture and history to a TEE. I don't look nor seem any differen't than them for survival purposes and I speak 6 dialects of jive lmao!!!!!!!!!

4. There are not such thing as Hebrews or Isrealites in history.

5. You need to think before you speak "sista guurl"
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
You speak jive indeed!!!! I never said that you said DNA testing was a lie. The reason that I brought up DNA is because there has been genetic testing done to prove/back up what the Lemba say about being Hebrews/Israelites. There is no such thing as Jews in history. Remember the letter 'J' doesn't show up in the Torah. So those groups of people didn't consider themselves 'Jewish'. Did you even watch the video at the beginning of the thread? Until you do, then we can talk.
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 
Yes I watched it and I saw how they tried to sabatoge the building that EVERYONE knows the Shona did by themselves.

There are no such thing as Hebrews or Isrealites in history.

Their dna shows that they have middle eastern "cohen" haplotype which is only 15,000 years old and is definetly not of black people.

So at best all they are doing is connecting themsevles to Western Asian/Middle Eastern people...big deal!

Do you African Americans make a big deal about being connected to British peoples other then when purporting to have "good hair" lol?
 

---

Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

Do you African Americans make a big deal about being connected to British peoples other then when purporting to have "good hair" lol? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

yet these Lemba are discriminated by the other Jews LMAO go figure. Where is your GOD now!!

---

quote:

---

3. I am not a native African I am third generation African American, all of my grand parents came to this country in the 40's. I am as American as an African can get and I know African American pseudo culture and history to a TEE. I don't look nor seem any differen't than them for survival purposes and I speak 6 dialects of jive lmao!!!!!!!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida
4. There are not such thing as Hebrews or Isrealites in history.[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yonis:

quote:

---

3. I am not a native African I am third generation African American, all of my grand parents came to this country in the 40's. I am as American as an African can get and I know African American pseudo culture and history to a TEE. I don't look nor seem any differen't than them for survival purposes and I speak 6 dialects of jive lmao!!!!!!!!!

---

LMAO the only reason you suddenly say that you're not born in Nigerian is because you know that igbogoddes might ask you something in igbo or yoruba, that's why you have shifted to call yourself a third generation American, lol your busted.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sundiata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

Do you African Americans make a big deal about being connected to British peoples other then when purporting to have "good hair" lol?

---

No, because African-Americans don't sincerely believe that they were the original British colonists who settled the Americas, you can't turn this on its head and make it a case about the self-esteem of the Lemba. You're simplifying an issue that you have no answers for, only dismissive and hateful rhetoric, with pre-conceived assumptions based on your self-hatred of black people(or just hatred, since there's a good chance that you're not black).. This is why you spend 75% of your time here obsessing over African-Americans(when this site isn't dedicated to A,.A.s), and the other 25% doubting that the Egyptians were Black, which you have recently feigned coming to terms with, but given your psychological instability, you're due to backslide anyways. [/QB]

---

Idiot my "deduction" was quite sound. Lemba can't claim being Jews/Isrealites/Hebrews because of their J and J2 haplogroups those haplogroups are not African nor black what part of that do you not understand?!?!?

http://www.mindspring.com/~jaypsand/lemba.htm

Here is SELF HATE right here from your beloved Lemba: What is certain is that the Lemba are emphatic about being Jewish. "I love my people," a Lemba woman told Parfitt, "we came from the Israelites, we came from Sena, we crossed the sea . . . We were so beautiful with beautiful long, Jewish noses and so proud of our facial structure .

We no way wanted to spoil our structure by carelessness, eating pig or marrying non-Lemba gentiles

Though non-Lemba women are allowed to marry into the tribe, Lemba men face expulsion if they marry gentiles.

And you call me self hating Mwahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
Another example that you don't know what your are talking about, Vida. I have relatives with very light skin to olive complexioned skin(meaning black) with varying facial features. But as I said before, it wasn't about skin color with us until very recently. It was about familial group(tribal) identity/connections. You are a prime example, Vida , that racism is a cancerous tumor bent on poisoning the beauty and diversity that has always been in Africa. Please, do not further spoil this thread with your ignorance. If you have something informative to say about the Lemba, then please do so. If not, please remain silent.
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
*sighs* Vida,
Again, skin color is not indicative of what family group you are from. There is another good thread on here about the genotype of famous Brazilians. In it, it states this fact. There were dark/black people that genetically had more European in them than African. The Lemba ARE NOT indigenously African. They are Black. And they are Hebrew/Israelite. I just don't see why this concept is so hard for you to understand. Oh, and please don't go into the Brazilian thread with this foolishness.
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:
Another example that you don't know what your are talking about, Vida. I have relatives with very light skin to olive complexioned skin(meaning black) with varying facial features. But as I said before, it wasn't about skin color with us until very recently. It was about familial group(tribal) identity/connections. You are a prime example, Vida , that racism is a cancerous tumor bent on poisoning the beauty and diversity that has always been in Africa. Please, do not further spoil this thread with your ignorance. If you have something informative to say about the Lemba, then please do so. If not, please remain silent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:
*sighs* Vida,
Again, skin color is not indicative of what family group you are from. There is another good thread on here about the genotype of famous Brazilians. In it, it states this fact. There were dark/black people that genetically had more European in them than African. The Lemba ARE NOT indigenously African. They are Black. And they are Hebrew/Israelite. I just don't see why this concept is so hard for you to understand. Oh, and please don't go into the Brazilian thread with this foolishness.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obelisk_18:

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
Here's something from wikipedia about African Jews...take it for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Africa

---

I actually read up on that, pretty intrusting stuff, especially about the Nigerian Jews, I thought pre-colonial, especially southern, Nigeria was pretty isolated from the mediterranean world, at least with regards to religion. Guess I was wrong, lol....... Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

No the cohen haplotypes come from Middle eastern arab type people and there is no evidence of the Lemba being in the Levant.

---

What did you think the Lemba Buba clan were referring to, if not ancestry from "southwest Asia"? They are talking about their 'ancestry', not themselves.

BTW, can you tell us about how the Lemba came to adopt their "Jewish" traditions.

---

Ok, so why don't African Americans CLAIM their Scottish, Welsh and Irish ancestory and then go all the way to say Scotts, Welsh and Irish people are black lol?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

The original people with this Cohen weren't black so for Lemba to claim they are from the original Isrealites is rediculous.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

But I don't know; African Americans have always loved to claim how "mixed" they are and their non African ancestory so I guess loser negros don't just exist in the Americas and East Africa, but now South Africa too

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

It is not looking to good for the black race..oops I mean people *sniff*.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Not only that; these people seperate themselves from other AFricans and claim they built everything in southern Africa which is a LIE and they say their noses is different than other Africans and would only mix with Asians and not other blacks. So **** these piece of **** Lembas.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

The only reason African Americans even care about these people is because they believe in this silly Bible and want this fake spook God to exist and grant certain people privelages, yet these Lemba are discriminated by the other Jews LMAO go figure. Where is your GOD now!!

---

And how does this answer any of the questions you cited me on?

In fact, not a single part of the question and request you cited has been delivered. You can't be insinuating that the questions were too difficult, or are you?
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Igbogoddess said it all.

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:

Vida, are you chemically dependent? Where are you sources for the statements that you made? You just ramble on about nothing and seem to be interested in topics but then go off on a tangent about God-knows-what? DNA doesn't lie. You seem to be a proponent of this White supremacy nonsense thinking that Black people have this innate desire to align themselves somehow with White/lighter-skinned people. As if this is the ultimate form of validation. If you were truly a native Black African, you would have no desire to do this. The Lemba are Hebrews not Jews. Furthermore, if you were truly African, you would know that we are identified by our family groups/tribes (I hate that word). It was never about skin color. Before you post, please THINK about what it is you want to say, noting that sometimes it is better not to say anything at all and just READ. Stop trying to make this very intellectual message board a freak show.

---

Don't forget, the guy even espouses the old "true negro" faux, that even white people don't believe in anymore. A Somali is just as black as a Nigerian.

By the way Yonis, you hit the nail about his admission. LOL To be honest, I don't think the guy is even 'black' from the way he talks. He sounds like one of those white racist losers who visit mootstorm front and try to "make sense" of their racism!
 

---

Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:
*sighs* Vida,

The Lemba ARE NOT indigenously African.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obelisk_18:

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
Here's something from wikipedia about African Jews...take it for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Africa

---

I actually read up on that, pretty intrusting stuff, especially about the Nigerian Jews, I thought pre-colonial, especially southern, Nigeria was pretty isolated from the mediterranean world, at least with regards to religion. Guess I was wrong, lol....... Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants

---

The Yoruba have an origin myth that specifies Mecca, Arabia as the source of one of its tribal founders. So this is another blow to that presumption of subsaharan Africa isolation.

---

Yes and that is a Hausa lie because they are brainwashed Muslims. You have to watch out for many traditional African mythos because they have been obfuscated by the evil Jews/Muslims/Christians.

Again the best way to destroy a person is take their spirit and mind away and giving them foreign Gods that do nothing for them and religions and philosophies and destroying their culture by changing their own stories is the best way to kill an African

Slavery and Imperialization or just small potatoes to this unfortunately. Jesus/Yahweh(Hashem)/Allah are the killer of blacks not Europeans/Jews/Arabs.
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

No the cohen haplotypes come from Middle eastern arab type people and there is no evidence of the Lemba being in the Levant.

---

What did you think the Lemba Buba clan were referring to, if not ancestry from "southwest Asia"? They are talking about their 'ancestry', not themselves.

BTW, can you tell us about how the Lemba came to adopt their "Jewish" traditions.

---

Ok, so why don't African Americans CLAIM their Scottish, Welsh and Irish ancestory and then go all the way to say Scotts, Welsh and Irish people are black lol?

---

What African Americans choose or not choose to do, has what bearings on Lemba claims of their heritage, anymore than it has on yourself?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

The original people with this Cohen weren't black so for Lemba to claim they are from the original Isrealites is rediculous.

---

And you know this based on...? And even if they weren't "black", how does that illegitimize Lemba ancestry from them?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

But I don't know; African Americans have always loved to claim how "mixed" they are and their non African ancestory so I guess loser negros don't just exist in the Americas and East Africa, but now South Africa too

---

In what way does acknowledging their ancestry, make Lemba "losers", any more than you claiming your own ancestry?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

It is not looking to good for the black race..oops I mean people *sniff*.

---

Relevancy?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Not only that; these people seperate themselves from other AFricans and claim they built everything in southern Africa which is a LIE and they say their noses is different than other Africans and would only mix with Asians and not other blacks. So **** these piece of **** Lembas.

---

Which Lemba figure did you gather this from; citation with links!

^And even if such claim is made, how does this change the fact of ancestry?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

The only reason African Americans even care about these people is because they believe in this silly Bible and want this fake spook God to exist and grant certain people privelages, yet these Lemba are discriminated by the other Jews LMAO go figure. Where is your GOD now!!

---

And how does this answer any of the questions you cited me on?

In fact, not a single part of the question and request you cited has been delivered. You can't be insinuating that the questions were too difficult, or are you?

---

quote:

---

What African Americans choose or not choose to do, has what bearings on Lemba claims of their heritage, anymore than it has on yourself?

---

quote:

---

And you know this based on...? And even if they weren't "black", how does that illegitimize Lemba ancestry from them?

---

quote:

---

In what way does acknowledging their ancestry, make Lemba "losers", any more than you claiming your own ancestry?

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidadavida:

It is not looking to good for the black race..oops I mean people *sniff*.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relevancy?

---

quote:

---

Which Lemba figure did you gather this from; citation with links!

^And even if such claim is made, how does this change the fact of ancestry?

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by igbogoddess:
*sighs* Vida,

The Lemba ARE NOT indigenously African.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, they are.

---

^^^Thank you...this dumb muddacunt is trying to debate me and doesn't know what the hell she is talking about. She thinks the Lemba are ALL J and J2 on their paternal site and just HAPPENED to turn black because they live in Africa lmao!!!!!!!!

quote:

---

And how does this answer any of the questions you cited me on?

In fact, not a single part of the question and request you cited has been delivered. You can't be insinuating that the questions were too difficult, or are you?

---

I know that they have Western Asian ancestory and by asking how they have Jewish heritage..hell the same way Africans have Christian and Muslim rituals/custumes.

Now what I don't understand is this Mystery; if the people on this board get so mad when people say East and north and northeast Africans are mixed, then why are you so animate about the proving the Lemba to being mixed? I don't get you people
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Such ignorance. *sigh*
 

---

Posted by Kemson (Member # 12850) on :
 
The Lemba are indigenously Black Africans and their not Jews. These people are being played and they have no idea what they're in for. This is what happen when there is little or lack of defensive intellectual tribal elites who challenge outside perceptions and classification of their tribe(s). It's really quite sad.

This is maybe not the best example, but the most important point is this:

"A geneticist from Oxford University in London, England (1998) has proven through a DNA sequence that the African Bantu-speaking Lemba Tribe of South Africa and Zimbabwe carry the same Y chromosome that is distinctive to the Cohanim, a hereditary set of Jewish priests scattered throughout Europe and America. Reports carry the headlines “DNA COULD PROVE JEWISH ANCESTRY OF AFRICAN TRIBE.” While reading the article, it struck me as a “Freudian Slip” presented in the “European Slip/Slap Origin.” The title should have read: DNA PROVES AFRICAN ANCESTRY OF BIBLICAL HEBREWS. The most thorough analysis yet of the divergence of sequences in human mitochondrial DNA has been carried out. The results support the view that modern humans originated in Africa. (Hedges, Blair S. “Human Evolution: A Start for Population Genomics,” Nature 408, 652-653 7 December 2000)."

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/theology_tethers.htm
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 
---^ Such ignorance. *sigh* ---

You can't prove anything I said wrong, but I told you in another thread stop responding to my posts and I wont to yours so there will be peace.


No they have it right dude it is "dna evidence prove Jewish Ancestry of African Tribe"

There are no historical hebrews or Israelites and Africa has nothing to do with these people's in the Biblical context.
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
You are correct, Kemson. The Lemba are not Jews. They are Hebrew/Israelite. When I said that the Lemba were not indigenously African, I meant that they originated in what is now known as the Middle East (which geographically is Africa) *shrugs*. So I guess it would be more correct to say that the Hebrews/Israelites are of African descent. Maybe this information is what the Jews are trying to squelch. Yes?
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 
^^^wrong again!!!!!!! You don't get it the Lemba ARE AFRICANS mixed WITH A WESTERN ASIAN LINEAGE!!!!
 

---

Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

You are one of the inteligent ones on this site Mystery so I am surprised that you don't understand this simple deduction and perfect rationale.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

If Lemba say they are so cool because they have Hebrew/Western Asian ancestory and this is supposed to mean something..

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

then why aren't African Americans claiming to be descendants from British royalty?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

And if they did, would they be taken as seriously just because the WHOLE world is miffed by this Israel and Isrealite myth and Bible bullshiit?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Mystery Solver:

And you know this based on...? And even if they weren't "black", how does that illegitimize Lemba ancestry from them?

---

This site has already gone through the fact that J and J2 aren't African or Tropically Adapted or black whatever you want to call it lol haplogroups.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I never said it illegitimizes their ancestory because their ancestory is factual. The ASSOCIATION is what is hogwash because the Lemba are mostly African and black and these so called Israelites arne't.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

In what way does acknowledging their ancestry, make Lemba "losers", any more than you claiming your own ancestry?

---

Why would someone claim ancestory that doesn't make up most of their DNA?!?!

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Especially when these ancestors didn't like the ethnic group that they are currently today.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I know this HAS to be a rhetorical question considering you and other always talk about the travesty of rape by oppressors Mystery, but I will "play" along ho hum.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Self hatred like the Lembas are excersicing is never a good sign for black progress.

---

quote:

---

http://www.mindspring.com/~jaypsand/lemba.htm

Here is SELF HATE right here from your beloved Lemba: What is certain is that the Lemba are emphatic about being Jewish. "I love my people," a Lemba woman told Parfitt, "we came from the Israelites, we came from Sena, we crossed the sea . . . We were so beautiful with beautiful long, Jewish noses and so proud of our facial structure .

We no way wanted to spoil our structure by carelessness, eating pig or marrying non-Lemba gentiles

Though non-Lemba women are allowed to marry into the tribe, Lemba men face expulsion if they marry gentiles.

It doesn't change their ancestory and never said it did.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

And how does this answer any of the questions you cited me on?

In fact, not a single part of the question and request you cited has been delivered. You can't be insinuating that the questions were too difficult, or are you?

---

I know that they have Western Asian ancestory and by asking how they have Jewish heritage..hell the same way Africans have Christian and Muslim rituals/custumes.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Now what I don't understand is this Mystery; if the people on this board get so mad when people say East and north and northeast Africans are mixed,

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

then why are you so animate about the proving the Lemba to being mixed? I don't get you people

---

Actually, I'm trying to figure out your hypocrisy in approaching Lemba vs. the Nile Valley, whereby you often choose to see extra-African ancestry in the Nile Valley inhabitants, and yet, deny it in the Lemba. The ball is actually on your court, if you know what I mean , to explain yourself.
 

---

Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:

You are correct, Kemson. The Lemba are not Jews. They are Hebrew/Israelite.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:

When I said that the Lemba were not indigenously African, I meant that they originated in what is now known as the Middle East (which geographically is Africa) *shrugs*. So I guess it would be more correct to say that the Hebrews/Israelites are of African descent. Maybe this information is what the Jews are trying to squelch. Yes?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

^^^wrong again!!!!!!! You don't get it the Lemba ARE AFRICANS mixed WITH A WESTERN ASIAN LINEAGE!!!!

---

quote:

---

"I have therefore reached the conclusion that the Falashas are
descendants of Israelite tribes which migrated southward to
Ethiopia. The aforementioned authorities who determined that
they are of the Tribe of Dan undoubtedly investigated the matter
thoroughly and came to this conclusion according to the most
reliable testimony and evidence."

---

• Rabbi Ya`aqob Castro
  "... the Abyssinian Jews ... are of the tribe of Dan ..."
  .
• Rabbi Dawiyd ben-Zimra of Egypt
  "... she was Jewish, a member of the tribe of Dan ..."
  "... among the kings of Kush, where there are three
  kingdoms ... one of Israelites of the tribe of Dan."
  "... the Kushites are undoubtedly of the tribe of Dan."
  .
• Rabbi Obadyah of Bertinoro of Italy
  "They are somewhat black... They claim descent from the tribe of Dan...".
  .
• Rabbi Eliyahu of Ferrara Italy
  .
• Rabban Simhha
  .
• Rabban Yisshaq ben Mar
  .
• haGaon Rabbi Zemahh
  .
• Karaite Rabbi Y*hudah haDassi
  .
• Rabbi Y*hudah ben Qorash
  .
• Rabbi Hhisdai ibn Shapruth

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:
alTukruri,

I believe that they are Hebrew/Israelite. Again, they have no reason to lie. I believe DNA testing will prove what they already know. Do you know of any genetic testing being done on Hebrew (Jewish) Igbo?

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidadavida:

If Lemba say they are so cool because they have Hebrew/Western Asian ancestory and this is supposed to mean something..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even if true, how does this affect the facts about extra-African ancestry in them?

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidadavida:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mystery Solver:

And you know this based on...? And even if they weren't "black", how does that illegitimize Lemba ancestry from them?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This site has already gone through the fact that J and J2 aren't African or Tropically Adapted or black whatever you want to call it lol haplogroups.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Citations?

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidadavida:

Self hatred like the Lembas are excersicing is never a good sign for black progress.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does the facts about extra-African ancestry in them, show self-hatred?

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mindspring.com/~jaypsand/lemba.htm

Here is SELF HATE right here from your beloved Lemba: What is certain is that the Lemba are emphatic about being Jewish. "I love my people," a Lemba woman told Parfitt, "we came from the Israelites, we came from Sena, we crossed the sea . . . We were so beautiful with beautiful long, Jewish noses and so proud of our facial structure .

We no way wanted to spoil our structure by carelessness, eating pig or marrying non-Lemba gentiles

Though non-Lemba women are allowed to marry into the tribe, Lemba men face expulsion if they marry gentiles.

It doesn't change their ancestory and never said it did.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Presuming that the above is true, let's come back to the question that followed:

^And even if such claim is made, how does this change the fact of ancestry?

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidadavida:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And how does this answer any of the questions you cited me on?

In fact, not a single part of the question and request you cited has been delivered. You can't be insinuating that the questions were too difficult, or are you?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that they have Western Asian ancestory and by asking how they have Jewish heritage..hell the same way Africans have Christian and Muslim rituals/custumes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This "same way" would be how specifically, considering that you proclaimed that the Cohen modal haplotypes in the Lemba males were of "Phoenician" extraction?

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vidadavida:

then why are you so animate about the proving the Lemba to being mixed? I don't get you people
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, I'm trying to figure out your hypocrisy in approaching Lemba vs. the Nile Valley, whereby you often choose to see extra-African ancestry in the Nile Valley inhabitants, and yet, deny it in the Lemba. The ball is actually on your court, if you know what I mean , to explain yourself.

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

^^^wrong again!!!!!!! You don't get it the Lemba ARE AFRICANS mixed WITH A WESTERN ASIAN LINEAGE!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you say the same for just about any other 'indigenous' African social groups who bear some lineages deemed "extra-African", i.e. as being first and foremost, "indigenous Africans", including Egyptians?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

It doesn't because they DO have extra-African ancestory and this isn't the point of contention.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

The point of contention is why do they say "we" came from Israel or out of Africa if now they are phenotypically black and mostly have African ancestory and the people that came from Israel and out of Africa with these J and J2 lineages are not.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

This is why I used to the African American rationale.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I never hear them say "we" in refering to European, they are refering to Africans which is logically sound to do considering they are mostly comprised of African DNA and are called African Americans and NOT European Americans.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

There was a thread on this board about J haplogroup, but I can't find it. Hope this helps...

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

http://www.kknfa.org/haplogroups.htm

The patriarch of Haplogroup J was born around 15,000 years ago somewhere in the Fertile Crescent, a region that today includes Israel, the West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. The early farming successes of the J lineages spawned population booms and encouraged migration throughout much of the Mediterranean region. Both Haplogroup J and its subgroup J2 are found at a combined frequency of around 30 percent among the Jewish population. The Cohen modal lineage is found in Haplogroup J*
Today the M304 marker appears at its highest frequencies in the Middle East, North Africa and Ethiopia. In Europe M304 is seen only in the Mediterranean region.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Because they are attaching themselves only to the extra-African ancestory being proud of long Jewish noses and hair and facial structure(which obviously means non black facial structure) when they do not have these features.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

This is "self hating" because how is it that a Western Asian phenotype is beautiful, but an African one isn't which is what they are?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Do you hear African Americans saying how beautiful they were in Europe(based on minimal European ancestory)? If no, then why do the Lemba say that?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Ok, can you tell me how the Lemba have Jewish custums in South Africa and also can you tell me how Hausa have Islamic custums in Nigeria?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

No you have this backwards. The people on this board try to ignore the extra-African ancestory of Somali, Eritrean, Egyptian, Ethiopian and Sudanese and focus on the African ancestory protecting the Africaness of these people from white nationalists and Eurocentrics yet now they and you are doing the opposite with the Lemba.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

The reason is the world wide sub conscious conditioning of the Bible and its importance to people and the so called Isrealites being the people of this Biblical God. You just aren't aware of how this is affecting you in this discussion.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

If non African ancestory isn't important or significant in Egyptians, Somali, Sudanese, Ethiopians than why is it so important in the Lemba now?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

As far as Egyptians NO because they are mostly comprised of NON African lineages.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

As far as Somali and Sudanese and Ethiopians I would say yes.

---

quote:

---

Re: What's your evidence that the original carriers of J haplotypes weren't 'black'. You dodged this question like four times now; is it too hard of a question?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

I never hear them say "we" in refering to European, they are refering to Africans which is logically sound to do considering they are mostly comprised of African DNA and are called African Americans and NOT European Americans.

Re: what does this have to do with Lemba ancestry?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

http://www.kknfa.org/haplogroups.htm

The patriarch of Haplogroup J was born around 15,000 years ago somewhere in the Fertile Crescent, a region that today includes Israel, the West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. The early farming successes of the J lineages spawned population booms and encouraged migration throughout much of the Mediterranean region. Both Haplogroup J and its subgroup J2 are found at a combined frequency of around 30 percent among the Jewish population. The Cohen modal lineage is found in Haplogroup J*
Today the M304 marker appears at its highest frequencies in the Middle East, North Africa and Ethiopia. In Europe M304 is seen only in the Mediterranean region.

And...?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

Because they are attaching themselves only to the extra-African ancestory being proud of long Jewish noses and hair and facial structure(which obviously means non black facial structure) when they do not have these features.

Do you know whether the Lemba practice local traditions? Why do you suppose they do that, and remain in Africa, if they didn't feel that they were Africans at all?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

This is "self hating" because how is it that a Western Asian phenotype is beautiful, but an African one isn't which is what they are?

Was it mentioned somewhere in Lemba texts, that their "Lemba" phenotype wasn't considered beautiful. Doesn't the fact that they perform marriages mostly within the Lemba community, refute that idea? That's the only way you can have a case about self-hate, if you can produce such.

---

Well if you are going to look at the epithet "self-hate" prima facie then you would be correct considering it would be very hard to "hate ones own person".

When this term is used it denotes someone hates their own phenotype distinction(since I can't use the word race on here ) in the case of the Lemba this distinction would be "black". If the Lemba do not marry any other "blacks", but would marry "whites" and "whatever the color distinction is with arabs/western asian Jews" then this would be called self hate.

Self hate is not a cultural epithet, but rather a color/racial/appearance one.

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

Do you hear African Americans saying how beautiful they were in Europe(based on minimal European ancestory)? If no, then why do the Lemba say that?

Well, if you fail to see connections between what Lemba say or do and what African Americans say or do, then how do you expect me to see one, when I've been the one asking you for ages to produce the relevancy of your comparing them?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

Ok, can you tell me how the Lemba have Jewish custums in South Africa and also can you tell me how Hausa have Islamic custums in Nigeria?

I suspect they were exposed to elements of Jewish traditions, precisely because at some point in history, there was contact between the base African population of the Lemba and people who practiced the said traditions. The fact that J haplotypes are frequent in male Buba members, buttresses this. I won't tell you anything about the Hausa, because it is irrelevant. Now, let's have your answers the questions you just posed!

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

No you have this backwards. The people on this board try to ignore the extra-African ancestory of Somali, Eritrean, Egyptian, Ethiopian and Sudanese and focus on the African ancestory protecting the Africaness of these people from white nationalists and Eurocentrics yet now they and you are doing the opposite with the Lemba.

Citations?

---

Please!!!!

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

The reason is the world wide sub conscious conditioning of the Bible and its importance to people and the so called Isrealites being the people of this Biblical God. You just aren't aware of how this is affecting you in this discussion.

...and you just don't know how irrelevant this jibberish is, do you?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

If non African ancestory isn't important or significant in Egyptians, Somali, Sudanese, Ethiopians than why is it so important in the Lemba now?

I fail to see how your question has any relevance to me, personally; rather the question should be, in your case: if non African ancestry is significant in Egyptians et al., why isn't it in the Lemba now?

---

quote:

---

As far as Lemba Buba Clan males are concerned, studies have shown them to be predominantly of the Cohen modal haplotype

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

As far as Somali and Sudanese and Ethiopians I would say yes.

That's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of; what is your specific 'scientific' measuring bar for neglecting "non African" ancestry in some 'indigenous' African groups, and pronouncing it in others?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vidadavida:
May I have a study that says Lemba males have more J haplotype in them than African lineages?
Because the video said other wise.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
^^^wrong again!!!!!!! You don't get it the Lemba ARE AFRICANS mixed WITH A WESTERN ASIAN LINEAGE!!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:

You are correct, Kemson. The Lemba are not Jews. They are Hebrew/Israelite.

---

As far as being 'Jewish', I guess that would be open to interpretation in the Jewish ideology of what constitutes 'Jewish ancestry', and if the Cohen modal haplotype falls into this, then I guess that would make them Jewish by default...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

I'm amazed that you can't answer elementary questions. What you call 'simple & perfect rationale' is akin to someone asking you for the answer of 2+2, only to have you come up with "African Americans do this or that" for an answer. You tell me; what gives?

---

quote:

---

First, mtDNA is incapable biologically of completely reflecting
a population’s evolutionary history and of rejecting the hypothesis
of admixture. MtDNA is sensitive to only female-mediated gene flow,
and can totally miss even extensive interbreeding mediated through
males.

For example, Figure 9 shows a cross-validated expansion out of-Asia
that occurred after the most recent out-of-Africa event. This expansion
event is marked by autosomal DNA and Y-DNA (Templeton, 2002). This
expansion event was not detected by mtDNA, even though the largest
samples, the best geographical coverage, and the greatest genetic
resolution existed for mtDNA. This implies that this expansion event
was primarily mediated by males coming out of Asia and was invisible
to mtDNA.

The Lemba, as discussed earlier, provide a more recent example. In this
case, Y-DNA provides evidence for extensive interbreeding between Jewish
and Bantu populations, but mtDNA indicates that there was no interbreeding
at all, a pattern consistent with their oral history (Soodyall, 1993; Thomas
et al., 2000; Wilson and Goldstein, 2000). Thus, mtDNA alone is biologically
incapable of detecting all admixture events, even those such as the Lemba
in which the degree of admixture was 100% (given that their origin was due
to Jewish men mating with Bantu women).

---

quote:

---

May I have a study that says Lemba males have more J haplotype in them than African lineages?
Because the video said other wise.

---

quote:

---

Thomas et al. (2000) showed that about two-thirds of the Lemba
Y chromosomes have a Middle Eastern origin,

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

First, mtDNA is incapable biologically of completely reflecting
a population’s evolutionary history and of rejecting the hypothesis
of admixture. MtDNA is sensitive to only female-mediated gene flow,
and can totally miss even extensive interbreeding mediated through
males.

For example, Figure 9 shows a cross-validated expansion out of-Asia
that occurred after the most recent out-of-Africa event. This expansion
event is marked by autosomal DNA and Y-DNA (Templeton, 2002). This
expansion event was not detected by mtDNA, even though the largest
samples, the best geographical coverage, and the greatest genetic
resolution existed for mtDNA. This implies that this expansion event
was primarily mediated by males coming out of Asia and was invisible
to mtDNA.

The Lemba, as discussed earlier, provide a more recent example. In this
case, Y-DNA provides evidence for extensive interbreeding between Jewish
and Bantu populations, but mtDNA indicates that there was no interbreeding
at all, a pattern consistent with their oral history (Soodyall, 1993; Thomas
et al., 2000; Wilson and Goldstein, 2000). Thus, mtDNA alone is biologically
incapable of detecting all admixture events, even those such as the Lemba
in which the degree of admixture was 100% (given that their origin was due
to Jewish men mating with Bantu women).

---

So you posted this to prove that Lemba are mixed? I don't understand the relevance?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obelisk_18:

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
Here's something from wikipedia about African Jews...take it for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Africa

---

I actually read up on that, pretty intrusting stuff, especially about the Nigerian Jews, I thought pre-colonial, especially southern, Nigeria was pretty isolated from the mediterranean world, at least with regards to religion. Guess I was wrong, lol....... Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants

---

The Yoruba have an origin myth that specifies Mecca, Arabia as the source of one of its tribal founders. So this is another blow to that presumption of subsaharan Africa isolation.

---

Yes and that is a Hausa lie because they are brainwashed Muslims. You have to watch out for many traditional African mythos because they have been obfuscated by the evil Jews/Muslims/Christians.

Again the best way to destroy a person is take their spirit and mind away and giving them foreign Gods that do nothing for them and religions and philosophies and destroying their culture by changing their own stories is the best way to kill an African

Slavery and Imperialization or just small potatoes to this unfortunately. Jesus/Yahweh(Hashem)/Allah are the killer of blacks not Europeans/Jews/Arabs.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

You are one of the inteligent ones on this site Mystery so I am surprised that you don't understand this simple deduction and perfect rationale.

---

I'm amazed that you can't answer elementary questions. What you call 'simple & perfect rationale' is akin to someone asking you for the answer of 2+2, only to have you come up with "African Americans do this or that" for an answer. You tell me; what gives?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

If Lemba say they are so cool because they have Hebrew/Western Asian ancestory and this is supposed to mean something..

---

Even if true, how does this affect the facts about extra-African ancestry in them?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

then why aren't African Americans claiming to be descendants from British royalty?

---

What specifically does African Americans have anything to do with the issue at hand; does African American claims on ancestry have any bearing on whom you claim as your ancestors?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

And if they did, would they be taken as seriously just because the WHOLE world is miffed by this Israel and Isrealite myth and Bible bullshiit?

---

See question above; try hard not to fall short on relevant answers again.

And...

Are you denying extra-African ancestry in the Lemba Buba clan? If not, then what is your point?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Mystery Solver:

And you know this based on...? And even if they weren't "black", how does that illegitimize Lemba ancestry from them?

---

This site has already gone through the fact that J and J2 aren't African or Tropically Adapted or black whatever you want to call it lol haplogroups.

---

Citations?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I never said it illegitimizes their ancestory because their ancestory is factual. The ASSOCIATION is what is hogwash because the Lemba are mostly African and black and these so called Israelites arne't.

---

Well, if "ancestry" doesn't associate them with the region that they proclaim their ancestors came from, then what does it represent? See post above, concerning this "black" issue.

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

In what way does acknowledging their ancestry, make Lemba "losers", any more than you claiming your own ancestry?

---

Why would someone claim ancestory that doesn't make up most of their DNA?!?!

---

What specifically makes up most of their DNA? And why shouldn't they claim ancestry that does exist?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Especially when these ancestors didn't like the ethnic group that they are currently today.

---

Objective documentations? And even if so, again, how does this affect the facts about extra-African ancestry in them?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I know this HAS to be a rhetorical question considering you and other always talk about the travesty of rape by oppressors Mystery, but I will "play" along ho hum.

---

If you think this is game, then it doesn't seem that you are up to speed yet.

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Self hatred like the Lembas are excersicing is never a good sign for black progress.

---

How does the facts about extra-African ancestry in them, show self-hatred?

quote:

---

http://www.mindspring.com/~jaypsand/lemba.htm

Here is SELF HATE right here from your beloved Lemba: What is certain is that the Lemba are emphatic about being Jewish. "I love my people," a Lemba woman told Parfitt, "we came from the Israelites, we came from Sena, we crossed the sea . . . We were so beautiful with beautiful long, Jewish noses and so proud of our facial structure .

We no way wanted to spoil our structure by carelessness, eating pig or marrying non-Lemba gentiles

Though non-Lemba women are allowed to marry into the tribe, Lemba men face expulsion if they marry gentiles.

It doesn't change their ancestory and never said it did.

---

Presuming that the above is true, let's come back to the question that followed:

^And even if such claim is made, how does this change the fact of ancestry?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

And how does this answer any of the questions you cited me on?

In fact, not a single part of the question and request you cited has been delivered. You can't be insinuating that the questions were too difficult, or are you?

---

I know that they have Western Asian ancestory and by asking how they have Jewish heritage..hell the same way Africans have Christian and Muslim rituals/custumes.

---

This "same way" would be how specifically, considering that you proclaimed that the Cohen modal haplotypes in the Lemba males were of "Phoenician" extraction?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Now what I don't understand is this Mystery; if the people on this board get so mad when people say East and north and northeast Africans are mixed,

---

Based on what citations and context? And if so, what does that have to do with me?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

then why are you so animate about the proving the Lemba to being mixed? I don't get you people

---

Actually, I'm trying to figure out your hypocrisy in approaching Lemba vs. the Nile Valley, whereby you often choose to see extra-African ancestry in the Nile Valley inhabitants, and yet, deny it in the Lemba. The ball is actually on your court, if you know what I mean , to explain yourself.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

I see no evidence of the J haplotype carriers being tropically adapted.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Do you have evidence that says the original carriers of this haplotype ARE?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Ok, in a discussion or debate Mystery when one or more sides do not understand either's position, it shows intelligence for one of the arguers to be obsequious in fascilitating the intelligability of their argument to the other.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

In this case I present "reason" in which one uses logic and rationale in demonstrating how they come to a conclusion based on the knowledge or information they have obtained.

Rationale:

*Lemba are African(black) people with mixed ancestory

*African-Americans(black) people with mixed ancestory

This is a perfect example of the rationale of my argument that Lemba Jews are intellectually bankrupt in claiming they came from Israel as well as being self hating individuals and should not be embraced by Africanists or black Africans.

---

Actually, this is an example of an irrationale presentation of thought. Please amuse me, in making it 'rationale'.

-----


Ps- Let me give you an example of 'rationalizing' your intellectually disorganized but so-called 'ratonale':

Vidadada writes:

Rationale:

*Lemba are African(black) people with mixed ancestory

*African-Americans(black) people with mixed ancestory

^And I can just as well say, using the unique Vidadavida 'rationale', that the Lemba are African, and AA are Americans. The AA would be intellectually bankrupt for claiming to have ancestry from Africa, because clearly they are Americans. This would be self-hate, and shouldn't be embraced by Africanists and black Africans. Well Vida, what now?

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

If you can't show me that the original carriers of J haplotype were black then why do you pass the said citation with an "and...?" comment?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Because they seperate themselves from other black Africans by saying they are not originally African.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Arabs in African don't consider themselves black or African, that doens't keep them from living there or saying that they live there now----this was an odd question lol.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Well if you are going to look at the epithet "self-hate" prima facie then you would be correct considering it would be very hard to "hate ones own person".

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

When this term is used it denotes someone hates their own phenotype distinction(since I can't use the word race on here ) in the case of the Lemba this distinction would be "black".

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

If the Lemba do not marry any other "blacks", but would marry "whites" and "whatever the color distinction is with arabs/western asian Jews" then this would be called self hate.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Self hate is not a cultural epithet, but rather a color/racial/appearance one.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Do you hear African Americans saying how beautiful they were in Europe(based on minimal European ancestory)? If no, then why do the Lemba say that?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Well, if you fail to see connections between what Lemba say or do and what African Americans say or do, then how do you expect me to see one, when I've been the one asking you for ages to produce the relevancy of your comparing them?

---

Stated above.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I suspect they were enslaved by carriers of this haplotype and were relocated. Now since both of us are just speculating and the Lemba are saying they came from Israel which we know isn't true then the answer is "who knows" as of yet.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

No you have this backwards. The people on this board try to ignore the extra-African ancestory of Somali, Eritrean, Egyptian, Ethiopian and Sudanese and focus on the African ancestory protecting the Africaness of these people from white nationalists and Eurocentrics yet now they and you are doing the opposite with the Lemba.

---

quote:

---

Mystery Solver:

Citations?

---

Please!!!!

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

The reason is the world wide sub conscious conditioning of the Bible and its importance to people and the so called Isrealites being the people of this Biblical God. You just aren't aware of how this is affecting you in this discussion.

---

quote:

---

Mystery Solver:

...and you just don't know how irrelevant this jibberish is, do you?

---

Sure it is considering the original posts on this thread as well as the videos are all about the possibility of blacks being descendants of the Biblical Israelites? Now why is this issue "isolated" or of substantial discernment any more than descendants of the original NOK culture in Nigeria being blacks lol? It is because of the world wide fascination and belief in the Bible and these so called "lost" tribes. The World could care less about NOK culture in Nigeria.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:


Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

May I have a study that says Lemba males have more J haplotype in them than African lineages?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Because the video said other wise.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I base it on the amount of ancestory. If less than 15% of the ancestory of Ethiopians is non African how come that isn't pronounced by you and others on this board, but it is with the Lemba?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kemson:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:

You are correct, Kemson. The Lemba are not Jews. They are Hebrew/Israelite.

---

As far as being 'Jewish', I guess that would be open to interpretation in the Jewish ideology of what constitutes 'Jewish ancestry', and **if** the Cohen modal haplotype falls into this, then I guess that would make them Jewish by default...

---

Nonsense!

No one knows where the hell this "Cohen modal haplotype" is sampled from. Which people is this "Cohen modal haplotype" modeled from?

---

quote:

---

Kemson:

My view is quite simple: If any of these basic questions are answered with suggestions, even slightly indicating some European Caucasian bases for the ancient origin of a Black African people, then we can say without any confusion that such indicated suggestion is erroneously flawed.

Jewish people should be publishing correct information about people in Africa of Ancient Hebrew descendant indigenous to Africa and how its cultural, way of life and/or biological influences may have played a role in contributing to other peoples cultures/way of life outside of Africa, as opposed to any illogical suggestions leaning towards a false European origin of any Black African people. Views like this will not stand against pure intellectual scrutiny and at best, is a frustrating annoyance; at worst, of wicked motives and absolutely absurd from all angles.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obelisk_18:

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
Here's something from wikipedia about African Jews...take it for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Africa

---

I actually read up on that, pretty intrusting stuff, especially about the Nigerian Jews, I thought pre-colonial, especially southern, Nigeria was pretty isolated from the mediterranean world, at least with regards to religion. Guess I was wrong, lol....... Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants

---

The Yoruba have an origin myth that specifies Mecca, Arabia as the source of one of its tribal founders. So this is another blow to that presumption of subsaharan Africa isolation.

---

Yes and that is a Hausa lie because they are brainwashed Muslims. You have to watch out for many traditional African mythos because they have been obfuscated by the evil Jews/Muslims/Christians.

Again the best way to destroy a person is take their spirit and mind away and giving them foreign Gods that do nothing for them and religions and philosophies and destroying their culture by changing their own stories is the best way to kill an African

Slavery and Imperialization or just small potatoes to this unfortunately. Jesus/Yahweh(Hashem)/Allah are the killer of blacks not Europeans/Jews/Arabs.

---

Huh?

How do you get from an origin myth that undermines the myth of subsaharan isolation to Hausa lies and Jewish/Christian/Islamic imperialism? Nevermind . . .

Of course, myths are stories that should not be taken at face value. That's a given. But Africanist scholars tend to agree that all West African peoples migrated West from East and North. The Yoruba myth about Mecca must be understood in that context.

Stop looking for an argument where none exist.

---

quote:

---

The Yoruba have an origin myth that specifies Mecca, Arabia as the source of one of its tribal founders. So this is another blow to that presumption of subsaharan Africa isolation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obelisk_18:

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
Here's something from wikipedia about African Jews...take it for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Africa

---

I actually read up on that, pretty intrusting stuff, especially about the Nigerian Jews, I thought pre-colonial, especially southern, Nigeria was pretty isolated from the mediterranean world, at least with regards to religion. Guess I was wrong, lol....... Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants

---

The Yoruba have an origin myth that specifies Mecca, Arabia as the source of one of its tribal founders. So this is another blow to that presumption of subsaharan Africa isolation.

---

Yes and that is a Hausa lie because they are brainwashed Muslims. You have to watch out for many traditional African mythos because they have been obfuscated by the evil Jews/Muslims/Christians.

Again the best way to destroy a person is take their spirit and mind away and giving them foreign Gods that do nothing for them and religions and philosophies and destroying their culture by changing their own stories is the best way to kill an African

Slavery and Imperialization or just small potatoes to this unfortunately. Jesus/Yahweh(Hashem)/Allah are the killer of blacks not Europeans/Jews/Arabs.

---

Huh?

How do you get from an origin myth that undermines the myth of subsaharan isolation to Hausa lies and Jewish/Christian/Islamic imperialism? Nevermind . . .

Of course, myths are stories that should not be taken at face value. That's a given. But Africanist scholars tend to agree that all West African peoples migrated West from East and North. The Yoruba myth about Mecca must be understood in that context.

Stop looking for an argument where none exist.

---

No, I am refering to this:

quote:

---

The Yoruba have an origin myth that specifies Mecca, Arabia as the source of one of its tribal founders. So this is another blow to that presumption of subsaharan Africa isolation.

---

This is talking about Oduduwa and the Hausa have been brain washed by Muslims to say he came from Mecca around the 7th to 8th century AD. So this really has nothing to do with what you are talking about. And you are perpetuating MORE extra-African influence in Africa as most self hating negros have no idea that they are doing and killing African history. All the Yoruba said before the Muslims changed their story is that Oduduwa came from the North East..THATS IT!! Nothing about no damn Mecca.

---

quote:

---

This is talking about Oduduwa and the Hausa have been brain washed by Muslims to say he came from Mecca around the 7th to 8th century AD.

---

quote:

---

I am tired of people's trying to link any groups that they consider "civilized" or "advanced" in Africa to extra-African extraction, just because we somehow need others to lift us up from degradation.

---

quote:

---

It took you a while to reply even though you were online when I replied you, but nonetheless...

---

quote:

---

quote:

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

I see no evidence of the J haplotype carriers being tropically adapted.

And? The issue at hand, is your 'requirement' to back up the claim about original J bearers not having been 'black'. Where do you come of making a statement like that, without evidence?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

Do you have evidence that says the original carriers of this haplotype ARE?

I'm not obligated to produce anything. You made a claim, and need to back it up.

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

Ok, in a discussion or debate Mystery when one or more sides do not understand either's position, it shows intelligence for one of the arguers to be obsequious in fascilitating the intelligability of their argument to the other.

Then you must be the said short-changed 'arguer', because I do have 'an' idea about what you've been driveling on about for ages, but I simply don't buy it; much of what you drivel on about not only falls short in coherency, but also severely lacks substance.

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

In this case I present "reason" in which one uses logic and rationale in demonstrating how they come to a conclusion based on the knowledge or information they have obtained.

Rationale:

*Lemba are African black people with mixed ancestory

*African-Americans black people with mixed ancestory

This is a perfect example of the rationale of my argument that Lemba Jews are intellectually bankrupt in claiming they came from Israel as well as being self hating individuals and should not be embraced by Africanists or black Africans.

Actually, this is an example of an irrationale presentation of thought. Please amuse me, in making it 'rationale'. Ps- Let me give you an example of 'rationalizing' your intellectually disorganized but so-called 'ratonale':

Vidadada writes:

Rationale:

*Lemba are African black people with mixed ancestory

*African-Americans black people with mixed ancestory

^And I can just as well say, using the unique Vidadavida 'rationale', that the Lemba are African, and AA are Americans. The AA would be intellectually bankrupt for claiming to have ancestry from Africa, because clearly they are Americans. This would be self-hate, and shouldn't be embraced by Africanists and black Africans. Well Vida, what now?

---

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!! You have just shown me that you don't know much about rationale or deductive reasoning..WOW . Both propositions have African and black in parenthesis so your deduction of using just "america" for your rationale is very poor I must admit I am a little shocked at your lack of intelligence or maybe you just want to argue you can't reduce only "American" out of "African-American" LOL hmmmm. Now if I said the Lemba have mixed ancestory and Americans have mixed ancestory then your rationale would be better.

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

Because they seperate themselves from other black Africans by saying they are not originally African.

They claim ancestry from 'Sena', presumably somewhere in "southwest Asia", which you agreed with. Do all Africans share this lineage? If not, then where do you come of accusing them of what you just did, simply because they claim the said 'real' ancestry?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

Well if you are going to look at the epithet "self-hate" prima facie then you would be correct considering it would be very hard to "hate ones own person".

No brainer. Your claims about self-hate is obviously bunk, given that they are quite conservative, promoting intra-communal marriage.

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

If the Lemba do not marry any other "blacks", but would marry "whites" and "whatever the color distinction is with arabs/western asian Jews" then this would be called self hate.

Do you have evidence that they promote marriages outside the Lemba clan? If not, doesn't that render your claim intellectually void?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:
quote:

Well, if you fail to see connections between what Lemba say or do and what African Americans say or do, then how do you expect me to see one, when I've been the one asking you for ages to produce the relevancy of your comparing them?

Stated above.

In which case, the question you cited above remains unanswered

---

I have shown the rationale if you don't want to accept it then that is fine I am sure others can see it

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

I suspect they were enslaved by carriers of this haplotype and were relocated. Now since both of us are just speculating and the Lemba are saying they came from Israel which we know isn't true then the answer is "who knows" as of yet.

Since, you've acknowledged their ancestry as being from "southwest Asia", and that this essentially vindicates Lemba claims of ancestry, then your 'speculation' is reduced to nothing; rather, it is just a spooky knee-jerk reaction to my logical deduction. Furthermore, do you know of any group that proudly claims ancestry from the very people who 'enslaved' them?

---

Sure almost all of the black Muslims in Africa lmao...Ethiopians, Somalians, Sudanese and Oromo that came from Kilwa are proud to be muslims and were enslaved by Arabs. Black Tuaregs and some Wolof unfortunatly claim descendants from Arabs that enslaved them. African Americans always spoke of how much Irish and/or native American they had in them to seem BETTER than other blacks.

I know you know this Mystery you are more educated in Africa than I am so why are you doing this just for "debate" purposes? This is what I call "self hate" being proud of being descendants of people that either enslaved you and/or raped you.

Now, conversely the Darienito and Cirrarmone HATE the Jews that enslaved them so I would NOT call them self hating.

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

The reason is the world wide sub conscious conditioning of the Bible and its importance to people and the so called Isrealites being the people of this Biblical God. You just aren't aware of how this is affecting you in this discussion.

quote:

Mystery Solver:

...and you just don't know how irrelevant this jibberish is, do you?

Sure it is considering the original posts on this thread as well as the videos are all about the possibility of blacks being descendants of the Biblical Israelites? Now why is this issue "isolated" or of substantial discernment any more than descendants of the original NOK culture in Nigeria being blacks lol? It is because of the world wide fascination and belief in the Bible and these so called "lost" tribes. The World could care less about NOK culture in Nigeria.

The jibberish I'm referring to, Vida, is the idea that some unsubstantive drivel somehow affects me, rather than a reflection of the falling short of intellegence by the person droning on. This latest reply is also void of intellectual merit.

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:


Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't.

And where's the requested genetic evidence on this?

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

May I have a study that says Lemba males have more J haplotype in them than African lineages?

Sure:

From Thomas et al.:

"Of particular interest is the Buba clan, since membership of this clan and possession of the CMH are significantly associated P < .0001. Seven of the 11 clan-designated Lemba CMH Y chromosomes came from members of this clan, whereas 7 Northern Province, 4/4; and Sekhukuneland, 3/9 of the 13 Buba have the CMH."


F. C. Raulinga Hamisi, a Lemba elder, in a speech at the burial of Maanda William Mawela Ratshilingana Mhani, in July 1996 before the current research was undertaken, said that "the Senas left Judea under the leadership of Buba and settled in Yemen where they built their city of Sena, hence Senas," reflecting the belief of at least one elder that Buba led the Lemba out of Judea. On the other hand, the Encyclopedia Judaica 1972 makes no mention of a Buba in Jewish history. In a book published privately in 1992, another Lemba elder wrote that "the Bhuba lineage came down from Judea as the leading lineage of the Basena when they left Judea in their early migration to the Yemen where they settled and built the city of Sena. They ruled over all the lineages in good manner"

"The results...suggest a genetic history of the Lemba that is not incompatible with their oral tradition. Clearly, there has been a Semitic genetic contribution, including, quite probably, one from Arabs, given the Lembas' presence on the eastern coast of Africa, where Arabs have settled for centuries Mathew 1963. Both Ashkenazic and Sephardic Israelites are geographically far removed from the Lemba, and, were it not for the Y-chromosome sharing between the Yemeni and Jewish populations, the occurrence of Jewish haplotypes in the Lemba population would be highly suggestive of gene flow between the two groups. However, given the extent of Y-chromosome sharing between the Yemeni and Jewish groups, the presence of such haplotypes because of gene flow from Arab sources cannot be discounted. Support for a Jewish contribution to the Lemba gene pool is, nevertheless, found in the presence, at high frequency in the Lemba, of the CMH .088 of the entire population and .135 of UEP group 1; the CMH is also observed at moderate frequency in Ashkenazic Israelites .150 and .231 and Sephardic Israelites .100 and .161, but it was observed in only a single Yemeni .020 and .028. Furthermore, in an unpublished study of Palestinian Arabs A. Nebel, D. Filon, M. Faerman, A. Oppenheim, personal communication, the CMH was present at only very low frequency <.025.

The CMH has been suggested as a signature haplotype for the ancient Hebrew population, and it may be performing that function in this study Thomas et al. 1998. Further support for Lemba oral history comes from the Buba/CMH association. However, it is possible that the Lemba CMH Y chromosomes are a consequence of a relatively recent event that, in Lemba oral tradition, has acquired a patina of antiquity...

^As you can see, the Lemba Buba clan males, who proclaim ancestry from 'Sena', presumably in "southwest Asia", are predominantly of the J haplotype in question.

Was also discussed here: OT The Lemba: Indigenous or Not?

---

So this study says that 7 out of 13 Y chromosomes in Buba males have CMH so that is a tad over half of the males DNA make up plus the ALL African Mtdna = "mostly western Asian"?!?!?!

quote:

---

Now, let's have your evidence that Egyptians are "mostly" non-African vis-a-vis their African TMRCAs.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obelisk_18:

quote:

---

Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
Here's something from wikipedia about African Jews...take it for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_and_Judaism_in_Africa

---

I actually read up on that, pretty intrusting stuff, especially about the Nigerian Jews, I thought pre-colonial, especially southern, Nigeria was pretty isolated from the mediterranean world, at least with regards to religion. Guess I was wrong, lol....... Oh and my opinion on the Lemba? Original Zimbabweans who were knocked up by Jewish merchants

---

The Yoruba have an origin myth that specifies Mecca, Arabia as the source of one of its tribal founders. So this is another blow to that presumption of subsaharan Africa isolation.

---

Yes and that is a Hausa lie because they are brainwashed Muslims. You have to watch out for many traditional African mythos because they have been obfuscated by the evil Jews/Muslims/Christians.

Again the best way to destroy a person is take their spirit and mind away and giving them foreign Gods that do nothing for them and religions and philosophies and destroying their culture by changing their own stories is the best way to kill an African

Slavery and Imperialization or just small potatoes to this unfortunately. Jesus/Yahweh(Hashem)/Allah are the killer of blacks not Europeans/Jews/Arabs.

---

Huh?

How do you get from an origin myth that undermines the myth of subsaharan isolation to Hausa lies and Jewish/Christian/Islamic imperialism? Nevermind . . .

Of course, myths are stories that should not be taken at face value. That's a given. But Africanist scholars tend to agree that all West African peoples migrated West from East and North. The Yoruba myth about Mecca must be understood in that context.

Stop looking for an argument where none exist.

---

No, I am refering to this:

quote:

---

The Yoruba have an origin myth that specifies Mecca, Arabia as the source of one of its tribal founders. So this is another blow to that presumption of subsaharan Africa isolation.

---

This is talking about Oduduwa and the Hausa have been brain washed by Muslims to say he came from Mecca around the 7th to 8th century AD. So this really has nothing to do with what you are talking about. And you are perpetuating MORE extra-African influence in Africa as most self hating negros have no idea that they are doing and killing African history. All the Yoruba said before the Muslims changed their story is that Oduduwa came from the North East..THATS IT!! Nothing about no damn Mecca.

---

Regarding this . . .

quote:

---

This is talking about Oduduwa and the Hausa have been brain washed by Muslims to say he came from Mecca around the 7th to 8th century AD.

---

First, where is your evidence that this Yoruba mythology was tampered with by the Hausa? Source?

Second, where in the Yoruba origin myth does it specify the time period, let alone the 7th or 8th century? Source?

---

It is sad that I am even answering this because you are basically WANTING Africans to have non-African ancestory based on your skepticism smh very sad . No wonder negros suffer is because they hate themselves, but here you go:

www.edofolks.com
 

---

Posted by Mystery Solver (Member # 9033) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

I am tired of people's trying to link any groups that they consider "civilized" or "advanced" in Africa to extra-African extraction, just because we somehow need others to lift us up from degradation.

---

This is my point exactly and mostly the point of the people on this board when it comes to north African and the horn BUT when it comes to the Lemba now they seem to BEG for extra-African extraction....'tis very strange.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

It took you a while to reply even though you were online when I replied you, but nonetheless...

---

I keep my computer logged on even if I am not here.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

No it isn't and you know it Mystery considering J was never purported to be tropically adapted and originated in the Middle East.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

You would need to provide evidence for these original carriers to be black.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Do you have evidence that says the original carriers of this haplotype ARE?

---

I'm not obligated to produce anything. You made a claim, and need to back it up.

---

Yes you are

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

If that is your "opinion" than I can respect that.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Mystery Solver:

Actually, this is an example of an irrationale presentation of thought. Please amuse me, in making it 'rationale'. Ps- Let me give you an example of 'rationalizing' your intellectually disorganized but so-called 'ratonale':

Vidadada writes:

Rationale:

*Lemba are African black people with mixed ancestory

*African-Americans black people with mixed ancestory

^And I can just as well say, using the unique Vidadavida 'rationale', that the Lemba are African, and AA are Americans. The AA would be intellectually bankrupt for claiming to have ancestry from Africa, because clearly they are Americans. This would be self-hate, and shouldn't be embraced by Africanists and black Africans. Well Vida, what now?

---

LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!! You have just shown me that you don't know much about rationale or deductive reasoning..WOW

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Both propositions have African and black in parenthesis so your deduction of using just "america" for your rationale is very poor I must admit I am a little shocked at your lack of intelligence or maybe you just want to argue you can't reduce only "American" out of "African-American" LOL hmmmm.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Now if I said the Lemba have mixed ancestory and Americans have mixed ancestory then your rationale would be better.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I accuse them of self hate because they see themselves as BETTER than other Africans because of non-black extra-African ancestory.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Mystery Solver:

No brainer. Your claims about self-hate is obviously bunk, given that they are quite conservative, promoting intra-communal marriage.

---

No it isn't you just either don't understand or just want to be stubborn..which is fine it doesnt' bother me.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Please read about Lemba supporting marrying White and Arab Jews, their own Lemba Jews and NOT gentile black Africans *sigh*.

http://www.mindspring.com/~jaypsand/lemba.htm
http://www.haruth.com/JewsLemba.html

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I have shown the rationale if you don't want to accept it then that is fine I am sure others can see it

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Sure almost all of the black Muslims in Africa lmao...Ethiopians, Somalians, Sudanese and Oromo that came from Kilwa are proud to be muslims and were enslaved by Arabs.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Black Tuaregs and some Wolof unfortunatly claim descendants from Arabs that enslaved them.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

African Americans always spoke of how much Irish and/or native American they had in them to seem BETTER than other blacks.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I know you know this Mystery you are more educated in Africa than I am so why are you doing this just for "debate" purposes?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

This is what I call "self hate" being proud of being descendants of people that either enslaved you and/or raped you.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Now, conversely the Darienito and Cirrarmone HATE the Jews that enslaved them so I would NOT call them self hating.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

If it doesn't then why are you so animate about proving non African ancestory in Lemba, but not about non African ancestory in Horn Africans?

---

quote:

---

...
but not about non African ancestory in Horn Africans?

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

It matters to you because they are supposed to be "special" because they claim descendancy from Isrealites.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't.

---

And where's the requested genetic evidence on this?

---

http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf

---

quote:

---

quote:

Vidadavida:

So this study says that 7 out of 13 Y chromosomes in Buba males have CMH so that is a tad over half of the males DNA make up plus the ALL African Mtdna = "mostly western Asian"?!?!?!

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

quote:

---

Now, let's have your evidence that Egyptians are "mostly" non-African vis-a-vis their African TMRCAs.

---

Whoa you act as if you don't want Egyptians to have non-African ancestory hmmmm odd considering you seem to WANT the Lemba to. Why is this? *scratching my head*

---

quote:

---

Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't

---

quote:

---

It is sad that I am even answering this because you are basically WANTING Africans to have non-African ancestory based on your skepticism smh very sad [Frown] . No wonder negros suffer is because they hate themselves, but here you go:

www.edofolks.com

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:
Vida said

quote:

---

Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't

---

What kind of foolishness is this?
Both Lemba and Egyptians are African! If you are injecting colour, then you are truly embodying a Anglo-Saxon bias in your pronouncement!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:

Vida said

quote:

---

Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't

---

What kind of foolishness is this?
Both Lemba and Egyptians are African! If you are injecting colour, then you are truly embodying a Anglo-Saxon bias in your pronouncement!

---

I am talking about current Egyptians dude calm down lol.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:

Vida said

quote:

---

Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't

---

What kind of foolishness is this?
Both Lemba and Egyptians are African! If you are injecting colour, then you are truly embodying a Anglo-Saxon bias in your pronouncement!

---

I am talking about current Egyptians dude calm down lol.

---

It isn't a matter of calming down, it is a matter of your producing past due evidence for this funny claim. We've been overly patient with you, Vida.

---

Good luck, Mystery. I also have a request pending for evidence. If his first attempt at providing me evidence is any indication, brace yourself for disappointment. I've received better service at my local DMV.
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:

Vida said

quote:

---

Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't

---

What kind of foolishness is this?
Both Lemba and Egyptians are African! If you are injecting colour, then you are truly embodying a Anglo-Saxon bias in your pronouncement!

---

I am talking about current Egyptians dude calm down lol.

---

It isn't a matter of calming down, it is a matter of your producing past due evidence for this funny claim. We've been overly patient with you, Vida.

---

I don't have all day to sit at home arguing with people about Ancient Egypt. When I post something I post something.

I don't do the gang up good ol' boy routine crap. I am talking to you about the Lemba being self hating ni ggers and not to be focused on by Afrocentrics, Africanists or other black people.

And that they aren't descendants of Israelites in the Bible.

You say original carriers of J haplotype are black so that killed the whole argument, that is why I stopped because it says you just want to argue without getting anywhere.

As soon as you didn't acknowledge self hatred in the quoted Lembas about them not marrying any other blacks but WOULD marry whites and Asians and Lemba women saying they had beautiful noses and hair and facial structure that also ended the discussion.

When it is shown that 100% of mtdna in Lembas is African and 45% of their Y chromosomes are African and adding them up equals more African than Western Asian and you deny this that also ends the discussion.

When you don't admit that you caring about Lemba Jews because of the BIble popularity that also ends the discussion.

When you act like Africans and the diaspora haven't claim descendancy from the people that enslaved them, that ends the debate.

Debating is for learning not just debating; that is female like. What we have learned in this debate is

1. Original Carriers of J haplotype were "black"

2. Africans have never been enslaved by anyone nor claimed descendancy or culture/religion from anyone that enslaved them ]

3 Africans(blacks) loving Middle eastern features and people more than Africans(blacks) isn't self hating.

4. Over 70% of a person's dna = the minority of what their ancestory is

5. Having a certain lineage means that you descend from fictional characters in a mythological religious book .


Thanks Mystery I have really learned alot you are the greatest
 

---

Posted by Kemson (Member # 12850) on :
 
I believe that the entire CMH, haplotype/haplogroup classification system is a theoretical sham designed to wrongfully and systematically divide people while , in a slithering snake like fashion, award certain people(s) bogus genetic claims.

Classification systems of this kind inherit inconsistency the warrants dropping the entire idea. But of cause, this would be a hard sell so debunking the system is necessary and people should do this more rather than adopting it as some valid for of human genetic measuring tool.
 

---

Posted by Tyrannosaurus (Member # 3735) on :
 

quote:

---

Because they are attaching themselves only to the extra-African ancestory being proud of long Jewish noses and hair and facial structure(which obviously means non black facial structure) when they do not have these features.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
^^^My point exactly and it's all because of that filthy Bible.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tyrannosaurus:

quote:

---

Because they are attaching themselves only to the extra-African
ancestory being proud of longJewish noses and hair and facial
structure(which obviously means non black facial structure)
when they do not have these features.

---

Those aren't "Jewish" features, those are features common among
Southwest Asians. While the original Hebrew and Aramaic
Jews, as Southwest Asians, would have certainly had such
features, the Jewish religion does not affect your phenotype.

What is with this bullshit belief that being a Jew necessarily makes
you a descendent of the Hebrews, when in fact the only people
descended from Hebrews are most likely modern Palestinians
(Arabization notwithstanding)? This delusion seems most common
among white Ashkenazi Jews (descendents of Germanic northern
Europeans who converted to Judaism), but it now seems that
Africans believe it, too!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tyrannosaurus:

... in fact the only people descended from Hebrews are
most likely modern Palestinians (Arabization notwithstanding)?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tyrannosaurus:


... white Ashkenazi Jews (descendents of Germanic
northern Europeans who converted to Judaism),

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

I don't have all day to sit at home arguing with people about Ancient Egypt. When I post something I post something.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

I don't do the gang up good ol' boy routine crap. I am talking to you about the Lemba being self hating ni ggers and not to be focused on by Afrocentrics, Africanists or other black people.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

And that they aren't descendants of Israelites in the Bible.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

You say original carriers of J haplotype are black

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

so that killed the whole argument, that is why I stopped because it says you just want to argue without getting anywhere.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

As soon as you didn't acknowledge self hatred in the quoted Lembas about them not marrying any other blacks but WOULD marry whites and Asians and Lemba women saying they had beautiful noses and hair and facial structure that also ended the discussion.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

When it is shown that 100% of mtdna in Lembas is African and 45% of their Y chromosomes are African and adding them up equals more African than Western Asian and you deny this that also ends the discussion.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

When you don't admit that you caring about Lemba Jews because of the BIble popularity that also ends the discussion.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

When you act like Africans and the diaspora haven't claim descendancy from the people that enslaved them, that ends the debate.

---

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

Debating is for learning not just debating; that is female like.

---

Well, if that were the case, then I'd say that you fit the bill, if only you were fit to be a female. Most females are quite intelligent, in my book, and know how to produce evidence immediately upon request...something that you are apparently unfit to do.

quote:

---

Vidadavida:

What we have learned in this debate is

1. Original Carriers of J haplotype were "black"

2. Africans have never been enslaved by anyone nor claimed descendancy or culture/religion from anyone that enslaved them

3 Africans(blacks) loving Middle eastern features and people more than Africans(blacks) isn't self hating.

4. Over 70% of a person's dna = the minority of what their ancestory is

5. Having a certain lineage means that you descend from fictional characters in a mythological religious book .


Thanks Mystery I have really learned alot you are the greatest

---

I'd say you're welcome, but your report above says that you are not perceptive to learning. That would be translated into a grade below 'f', if there's any. But don't let this demoralization hold you back; after all, it doesn't relieve you from your obligation to produce pending evidences, does it Vida?


Ps - Good luck with your next best effort in dodging requests for evidence.
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 
^^^^At any rate Mystery I sincerely appreciate you for debating sensably and maturely and not being emotional like others

Thank you
 

---

Posted by JMT (Member # 12050) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
^^^^At any rate Mystery I sincerely appreciate you for debating sensably and maturely and not being emotional like others

Thank you

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JMT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
^^^^At any rate Mystery I sincerely appreciate you for debating sensably and maturely and not being emotional like others

Thank you

---

This sounds like a cop out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
^^^No it was sincere Mystery didn't try to gang up and he wasn't immature and was very respectful in the debate unlike other people.

It's not a cop out it is just that I am my argument is normative and his is constative so we won't really be able to come to an intelligable point.

---

quote:

---

I simply felt Mystery Solver raised some valid points in regard to producing counter evidence of the Lemba's proclamations about their ancestry from the Levantine which have yet to be addressed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
^^^No it was sincere Mystery didn't try to gang up and he wasn't immature and was very respectful in the debate unlike other people.

It's not a cop out it is just that I am my argument is normative and his is constative so we won't really be able to come to an intelligable point.

---

In other words, you've been asserting opinions with no basis in fact. This is what I've suspected all along.

All you had to do is admit this when you were asked for your sources/evidence. Sigh
 

---

Posted by JMT (Member # 12050) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:

quote:

---

I simply felt Mystery Solver raised some valid points in regard to producing counter evidence of the Lemba's proclamations about their ancestry from the Levantine which have yet to be addressed.

---

What is our hypothesis?
Are we saying the the specific genotype denoting Jews are the same (relative frequency) in Africa, Europe and America?

We already know that the Lemba have a higher frequency of the cohanim gene that denotes the priestly caste! What else are we looking for?
Shouldn't more of the Jews from Europe go through the same frequency of test to assert their "Jewishness"? They are rarely tested or challenged vis a vis the asertion of the ones from Africa!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JMT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:

quote:

---

I simply felt Mystery Solver raised some valid points in regard to producing counter evidence of the Lemba's proclamations about their ancestry from the Levantine which have yet to be addressed.

---

What is our hypothesis?
Are we saying the the specific genotype denoting Jews are the same (relative frequency) in Africa, Europe and America?

We already know that the Lemba have a higher frequency of the cohanim gene that denotes the priestly caste! What else are we looking for?
Shouldn't more of the Jews from Europe go through the same frequency of test to assert their "Jewishness"? They are rarely tested or challenged vis a vis the asertion of the ones from Africa!

---

My hypothesis is if the Lemba say their ancestry is from the Levatine then that is the case. DNA evidence supports the Lemba's claim. Who is this Vida person to refute the Lemba. And where is his science that contradicts the evidence that Mystery Solver requested? I haven't seen any.

What's strange to me is I'm not the one here espousing eurocentric garbage by feeding into the false stereotype of Black Africans never traveling outside of continental Africa in ancient times. Only a fool with room temperature IQ and an ulterior motive would peddle this nonsense. Vida's scheme is transparent to me. He is suggesting the Lemba became Black only through miscegenation with Black Africans after the Lemba's exodus from the middle east which is subliminally implying the original jews that came out of Egypt or the Levant must have been a different race or color than the present day Lemba. All B.S.! I believe the Lemba phenotypically looked the same way they did thousands of years ago before they arrived at their present location in Southern Africa.

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
^^^No it was sincere Mystery didn't try to gang up and he wasn't immature and was very respectful in the debate unlike other people.

It's not a cop out it is just that I am my argument is normative and his is constative so we won't really be able to come to an intelligable point.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, you've been asserting opinions with no basis in fact. This is what I've suspected all along.

All you had to do is admit this when you were asked for your sources/evidence. Sigh

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

It's not a cop out it is just that I am my argument is normative and his is constative so we won't really be able to come to an intelligable point.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:

Vida said

quote:

---

Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't

---

What kind of foolishness is this?
Both Lemba and Egyptians are African! If you are injecting colour, then you are truly embodying a Anglo-Saxon bias in your pronouncement!

---

I am talking about current Egyptians dude calm down lol.

---

It isn't a matter of calming down, it is a matter of your producing past due evidence for this funny claim. We've been overly patient with you, Vida.

---

Good luck, Mystery. I also have a request pending for evidence. If his first attempt at providing me evidence is any indication, brace yourself for disappointment. I've received better service at my local DMV.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kemson:
In my opinion and in a nut shell, this is how I view this:
Jews/Ashkenazi/Khazars = Mongols mixed with European White/Turkish/In-breeding elements which makes up a great number of what Jews are today. They [Jews] practice an adopted form of highly modified religion known as Judaism.

In clarity, I'll use the following comparative analogy to sharpen my understanding:

Nigerians = a people of a country. Nigerian is not a religion.
Nigeria is a physical regional location.

Russians = a people of a country. Russian is not a religion.
Russia is a physical regional location.

Irish = a people of a country. Irish is not a religion.
Ireland is a physical regional location.

Germans = a people of a country. German is not a religion.
Germany is a physical regional location.

Jews = a people of a religious philosophy, not a country therefore, not a physical regional location.

The remaining questions is:
What was to original countries Jews come from and what happened to it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by songhai:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mystery Solver:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

quote:

---

Originally posted by yazid904:

Vida said

quote:

---

Because Lemba are mostly African and Egyptians mostly aren't

---

What kind of foolishness is this?
Both Lemba and Egyptians are African! If you are injecting colour, then you are truly embodying a Anglo-Saxon bias in your pronouncement!

---

I am talking about current Egyptians dude calm down lol.

---

It isn't a matter of calming down, it is a matter of your producing past due evidence for this funny claim. We've been overly patient with you, Vida.

---

Good luck, Mystery. I also have a request pending for evidence. If his first attempt at providing me evidence is any indication, brace yourself for disappointment. I've received better service at my local DMV.

---

I am sorry I got distracted and forgot to respond.

http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub50.htm
http://www.edofolks.com/html/pub135.htm

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yonis:

quote:

---

3. I am not a native African I am third generation African American, all of my grand parents came to this country in the 40's. I am as American as an African can get and I know African American pseudo culture and history to a TEE. I don't look nor seem any differen't than them for survival purposes and I speak 6 dialects of jive lmao!!!!!!!!!

---

LMAO the only reason you suddenly say that you're not born in Nigerian is because you know that igbogoddes might ask you something in igbo or yoruba, that's why you have shifted to call yourself a third generation American, lol your busted.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yonis:

quote:

---

yet these Lemba are discriminated by the other Jews LMAO go figure. Where is your GOD now!!

---

The Ashkenazi jews discriminate against all Jews who are not Ashkenazi, have you ever heard about the Israeli Black Panthers (Mizrahi)?
http://www.marxist.com/MiddleEast/israeli_black_panthers.html
And also the Beta israelis are constantly discriminated againt in israel, so for sure they will also discriminate against the Lemba jews.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sundiata:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:

Do you African Americans make a big deal about being connected to British peoples other then when purporting to have "good hair" lol?

---

No, because African-Americans don't sincerely believe that they were the original British colonists who settled the Americas,

---

Considers what is meant by "big deal".

If someone is asked of course, they'd tell you whatever they know and are not ashamed of. If they cared to tell you.

What relevance is this to the question of the Lemba Israelites?

All I can deduce from this is that the Lemba are more proud of there Hebrew tradition/ancestry than african-americans are of being part white. So what?

(You see a glass half-empty, I see a glass half-full)

quote:

---

you can't turn this on its head and make it a case about the self-esteem of the Lemba. You're simplifying an issue that you have no answers for, only dismissive and hateful rhetoric, with pre-conceived assumptions based on your self-hatred of black people(or just hatred, since there's a good chance that you're not black).. This is why you spend 75% of your time here obsessing over African-Americans(when this site isn't dedicated to A,.A.s), and the other 25% doubting that the Egyptians were Black, which you have recently feigned coming to terms with, but given your psychological instability, you're due to backslide anyways.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh*:
Idiot my "deduction" was quite sound. Lemba can't claim being Jews/Isrealites/Hebrews because of their J and J2 haplogroups those haplogroups are not African nor black what part of that do you not understand?!?!?

---

quote:

---

Vida:

Though non-Lemba women are allowed to marry into the tribe, Lemba men face expulsion if they marry gentiles.

---

quote:

---

Just sit back and watch we aren't even debating anymore "keep up".

---

For one to debate, one must have coherent arguments let alone arguments that supported by evidence. You have yet to make such arguments.

[ 24. July 2007, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Horus_Den_1 ]
 

---

Posted by IgboIbo (Member # 13901) on :
 
I have read some of your comments on Igbos and Lembas and have been disgusted at some of them.

Why anyone would think that Igbos would want to align themselves with a country like Israel where one gets shot at/bombed on a daily or weekly basis if they didn't have strong evidence to show that they were from there, is beyond me.

Nigeria is a rich oil producing nation and is currently run by Muslims, Igbos have much to lose by being connected with Israel.

The Biblical word OL is OLU in Igbo, the Biblical word Maaz is Maazi in Igbo and yes the word Igbo is our pronounciation of the word Hebrew. The memorial onyx with Gad(son of Jacob) written in Hebrew is with the Igbos Exodus 39:14, there are numerous villages named after Eri and Arodi sons of Gad. The evidence goes on.

We are who we say we are and with time the world will agree.
 

---

Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
Since when did Igbo become jews?
 

---

Posted by yazid904 (Member # 7708) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yonis:
Since when did Igbo become jews?

---

Yonis,
It does not mean that the Igbo are Jews, or have become them!
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ A better question is what has become of this thread??
 

---

Posted by Nice Vidadavida *sigh* (Member # 13372) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yonis:
Since when did Igbo become jews?

---

*Snickering* That's what I said LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn my own arch enemy is taking words right out of my mouth
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
Igbos are not Jews but Hebrews, Yonis. Just because you haven't heard of this doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. But most of us are here to learn, so I am telling you. This thread is about the Lemba, so if you are truly interested in finding out how Igbos are Hebrews, PM me and I will send you what I have. You will notice that most African Hebrews have a particular tribe of Israel that they are affiliated with. It is a pity that Lemba, and Igbo for that matter, seem to have to jump through hoops to prove who they are to the world. Quite disgusting, actually.


Djehuti, this thread has fallen by the wayside because there are people here who aren't here to learn, but to name call and specualate. Threads get really boring when that happens. I am a teacher and I have, in the past, directed students here for information. I won't be doing that again, because some of the posters (and you all know who I'm talking about) act worse than some of the students that I direct here. It is a pity, because there is so many other intelligent people here.

IgboIbo, I would love to learn more about Hebrew Ibgos. Please PM information to me. Thank you.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:

Igbos are not Jews but Hebrews,.. .

---

Now I've heard everything! LOL

Manding Japanese and now Igbo Hebrews!

By the way, your comment is contradictory. The Hebrews were the ancestors of the Jews and they were in fact original Jews. How are modern West African Igbo 'Hebrews' all of a sudden but not even Jews?! LMAO
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
You need to respect people's right to self-determination
and not laugh in mocking ignorance of what you know not.

For your information there is a very concerted
effort going on right now and supported by an
influential American white Jewish organization
spearheading efforts to reallign those Igbo's
of Hebrew antecedents with the rest of K*lal
Yisra'el.

Over a decade ago the community of Libyan Jews
in Israel accepted an Igbo who made aliyah into
their kahila no questions asked presumably based
on old rabbinic records of trade between these two
diasporan Israelite settlements.

Because without approval of their rabbis, after thorough
investigation, the Igbo would not have been invited into
the Libyan (white and near white) community of Israel.

Most importantly, no community of Israelites or Jews
anywhere in Africa needs to prove anything about their
identity to anyone other than those Jewish authorities
who preside over marriages, especially they have no need
to do so to scoffing gentiles to whom this matter is none
of their gawd damned business.
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
So Djehuti, who do you think the Jews are?
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
Eloquently put, alTakruri!!!
 

---

Posted by One_and_Done (Member # 10712) on :
 
igbogoddess wrote:

quote:

---

So Djehuti, who do you think the Jews are?

---

quote:

---

I am a teacher and I have, in the past, directed students here for information. I won't be doing that again, because some of the posters (and you all know who I'm talking about) act worse than some of the students that I direct here. It is a pity, because there is so many other intelligent people here.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:

So Djehuti, who do you think the Jews are?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by One_and_Done:

Why would you even bother. This boy is a submissive troll. He has an ethnic hierarchial belief both globally and within Africa by region or ethnicity. Which is why he responded the way he did to you.

It is also why in his opinion "scholars" and scientists of euro ethnic backgrounds are intellectually superior, more trustworthy and knowledgable when compared to scholars of certain African ethnicities, or from certain nations.


His ethnic ranking beliefs should be obvious to all by now. You can easily see when it is between Africans and other groups. It is even more visible when it is between different Africans whether it be regional wise or nationality wise.


He's a sorry foreigner who does nothing but repeat whatever certain posters that he coattails say. The boy doesn't even think for himself he just waffles along cheerleading. Coattailing certain posters like a puppy.

---

In correct. A troll is someone who contributes nothing to a forum, let alone valid information but instead hurls insults and makes negative rhetoric-- YOU.

You say I propose an "ethnic hierarchy"?? And what gave your twisted mind that idea?!

I may be non-African, but I seem to hold more respect for African peoples regardless of ethnicity than you. Hence, your silly ethnic insults here. Insults such as those is also the behavior of a troll.

One-and-done, you were finished a long time ago.
 

---

Posted by igbogoddess (Member # 12132) on :
 
That's exactly what I'm saying, Djehuti. Yes,(some)Igbos are of the family(tribe)of the Hebrews. Are you implying that the Igbos were taught the faith from other sources? If so, how very 'Eurocentric' of you. Igbos have a family connection to Hebrews. They can tell you which tribe of Israel they belong to. Again, Igbos and Lemba don't have a history of lying and falsifying history. I don't understand why some people on this board think that Igbos or any other black African group of people have an innate desire to align themselves with whiter/lighter people. Here is something that you might find informative.

www.rabbihowardgorin.org/Ibo-Benei-Yisrael.pdf

I'm going back to lurking.
 

---

Posted by Yonis (Member # 7684) on :
 
But is this part of Igbos or are all Igbos Hebrews according to the belief?
 

---

Posted by Obelisk_18 (Member # 11966) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:
That's exactly what I'm saying, Djehuti. Yes,(some)Igbos are of the family(tribe)of the Hebrews. Are you implying that the Igbos were taught the faith from other sources? If so, how very 'Eurocentric' of you. Igbos have a family connection to Hebrews. They can tell you which tribe of Israel they belong to. Again, Igbos and Lemba don't have a history of lying and falsifying history. I don't understand why some people on this board think that Igbos or any other black African group of people have an innate desire to align themselves with whiter/lighter people. Here is something that you might find informative.

www.rabbihowardgorin.org/Ibo-Benei-Yisrael.pdf

I'm going back to lurking.

---

You really believe your people are descended from the ancient israelites? Has any genetic test been done on the Igbo to see if they carry "Semitic" genes? The burden of proof is on you babe
 

---

Posted by Willing Thinker {What Box} (Member # 10819) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:
I don't understand why some people on this board think that Igbos or any other black African group of people have an innate desire to align themselves with whiter/lighter people.

---

Purhaps Vida is simply projecting his own feelings of self-hate (or more likely hate which is still purhaps rooted back to his self ).

You know, projection, he devalues africans himself, placing "Jewish ancestry" as higher, therefore the suspiscion of them clinging onto the alleged ancestry because of self-hate.

Now what else of substance does he really have to say? Nada.

He has never had a problem with American Jews claims of being such, though it is HIGHLY unlikely they still today have much of the original Hebrew DNA. Then again, the Hebrews have never been pure, but have always clung to gether under one title similar to Afro-America and the one drop rule.

So to me much of that second page was bull-**** and it was like WTF is your point?!

THERE IS AN ANNOYANCE, THOUGH.

Though we know that civilization in West Africa began before any Hebrews existed, and extend back prior to even Ghana, there are ever popular diffusionist theories especially when it comes to Africa. Even of South African Atlantian Zulu!
 

---

Posted by One_and_Done (Member # 10712) on :
 

quote:

---

You say I propose an "ethnic hierarchy"?? And what gave your twisted mind that idea?!

---

quote:

---

I may be non-African, but I seem to hold more respect for African peoples regardless of ethnicity than you. Hence, your silly ethnic insults here. Insults such as those is also the behavior of a troll.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by One_and_Done:

You have already been exposed with regards to the white scholars vs. black scholars. Regarding your thoughts of the higher credibility and intelligence of white scholars/scientists versus the lack of same in black scholars/scientists. That was done in at least two earlier threads. Those that read them know what I'm speaking of.

---

quote:

---

That served two purposes, one of which was to prove my point about your ethnic hiearchy. There have been worse things said about other Africans from other nationalities and regions and yourself has never felt a compunction to refute or run to their defense.

---

What the heck are you talking about?! What "ethnic hierarchy"?! I think you lost it! I don't condone any insults against those of any ethnicity or nationality! I think your own ethnic prejudice has really affected your thinking.

quote:

---

People have noticed who you attack and who you don't. Who you defend and who you don't.

---

quote:

---

Secondly Yonis doesn't need you to defend him. If he is a grown man let him act like one

---

quote:

---

Oh yeah, don't think people haven't noticed that earlier in this thread you got spanked for speaking derogatively of certain Africans and you have submissively not replied.

---

Please cite where I have said anything derogative about any group of people?!! Again, I think your personal issues have started to affect your thinking.

[ 27. July 2007, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Horus_Den_1 ]
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
This certainly not the definition Jews themselves
have of who is or what constitutes a Jew. It's not
religion (a word that doesn't exist in the Hebrew
language) rather it's peoplehood and how one lays
claim to that peoplehood, be it by descent or by
nationalizing (which, true, is called conversion but
note there are atheist Jews, Buddhist Jews, and
so on, who don't adhere to or follow the Law of
Moses at all in the least).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by igbogoddess:

So Djehuti, who do you think the Jews are?

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Jews are anyone who practices the Judaic faith regardless of lineage or ancestry.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Obelisk_18:
You really believe your people are descended from the ancient israelites? Has any genetic test been done on the Igbo to see if they carry "Semitic" genes? The burden of proof is on you babe

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quote:

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Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
Then again, the Hebrews have never been pure,
but have always clung to gether under one title
similar to Afro-America and the one drop rule.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

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Originally posted by igbogoddess:

So Djehuti, who do you think the Jews are?

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Jews are anyone who practices the Judaic faith regardless of lineage or ancestry. But you are all of a sudden talking about Hebrews of the Levant and saying they were Igbo?

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quote:

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Originally posted by igbogoddess:
That's exactly what I'm saying, Djehuti. Yes,(some)Igbos are of the family(tribe)of the Hebrews. Are you implying that the Igbos were taught the faith from other sources? If so, how very 'Eurocentric' of you. Igbos have a family connection to Hebrews. They can tell you which tribe of Israel they belong to. Again, Igbos and Lemba don't have a history of lying and falsifying history. I don't understand why some people on this board think that Igbos or any other black African group of people have an innate desire to align themselves with whiter/lighter people. Here is something that you might find informative.

www.rabbihowardgorin.org/Ibo-Benei-Yisrael.pdf

I'm going back to lurking.

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Originally posted by Kemson:
songhai, wrong!

It would be Eastern Europe, Kharazia or Khazar Empire. Here's a map: http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story800.html

As you can see they come from Europe, went into Palestine and jacked their **** while saying talking about some right to return.

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
The truest statement yet made in this thread!

quote:

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Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:
Then again, the Hebrews have never been pure,
but have always clung to gether under one title
similar to Afro-America and the one drop rule.

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Thanks.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

How are modern West African Igbo 'Hebrews' all of a sudden but not even Jews?!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Willing Thinker {What Box}:

quote:

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Originally posted by igbogoddess:
I don't understand why some people on this board think that Igbos or any other black African group of people have an innate desire to align themselves with whiter/lighter people.

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Purhaps Vida is simply projecting his own feelings of self-hate (or more likely hate which is still purhaps rooted back to his self ).

You know, projection, he devalues africans himself, placing "Jewish ancestry" as higher, therefore the suspiscion of them clinging onto the alleged ancestry because of self-hate.

Now what else of substance does he really have to say? Nada.

He has never had a problem with American Jews claims of being such, though it is HIGHLY unlikely they still today have much of the original Hebrew DNA. Then again, the Hebrews have never been pure, but have always clung to gether under one title similar to Afro-America and the one drop rule.

So to me much of that second page was bull-**** and it was like WTF is your point?!

THERE IS AN ANNOYANCE, THOUGH.

Though we know that civilization in West Africa began before any Hebrews existed, and extend back prior to even Ghana, there are ever popular diffusionist theories especially when it comes to Africa. Even of South African Atlantian Zulu!

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west african civilizations before ghana? fill me in here.. you talking about the nok?
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Don't we have old Ghana or Nok threads where the above
discussion is more relevant and won't get lost?
 

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Posted by Willing Thinker {What Box} (Member # 10819) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
Don't we have old Ghana or Nok threads where the above
discussion is more relevant and won't get lost?

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