posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
^Please Albinos and Mulattoes:


STOP annoying me with your:

They're Berbers:
They're Egyptians:
They're Arabs:
They're Persians:
They're Phoenicians:
They're Mesopotamians:
They're Anatolians:
They're Hebrews:

Nonsense and Bullsh1t!

They're TURKS!

PERIOD!

All of those REAL people were BLACK People!

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
typeZeiss - You are correct, I "over generalized". That was done purposefully, I have found that too much detail confuses.

Hebrews a myth?

How so?

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
That Syria was once the domain of Cepheus, an Ethiopian king,Tacitus wrote that the Romans believed that the Jews originated in Ethiopia but fled the persecutions of the King. Strabo,even earlier,stressed that people of Western Judea was Africiod:

But although the inhibatance are mixed up thus,the most accerdited reports in regards to the people of Jerusalem reperesents the ancestors of the present Judeans as they are called Egyptians.

The remains found at Lakish:The excavacation uncovered a mass of human bones,which was estamated to form the remains of fifteen hundred individuals..remains of 695 skulls were brought to London by the British expidition...curiously,the crania indicate a close resemblance to the population of Egypt at this time...the relationships found suggest that the population of the town in 700 B.C was entirely of Egyptian origin..they show further,that the population of lakish was probably derived from upper Egypt.James e Brunson

By inference I'd have to say some body was!!!

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:
Originally posted by typeZeiss:
quote:
Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
That Syria was once the domain of Cepheus, an Ethiopian king,Tacitus wrote that the Romans believed that the Jews originated in Ethiopia but fled the persecutions of the King. Strabo,even earlier,stressed that people of Western Judea was Africiod:

But although the inhibatance are mixed up thus,the most accerdited reports in regards to the people of Jerusalem reperesents the ancestors of the present Judeans as they are called Egyptians.

The remains found at Lakish:The excavacation uncovered a mass of human bones,which was estamated to form the remains of fifteen hundred individuals..remains of 695 skulls were brought to London by the British expidition...curiously,the crania indicate a close resemblance to the population of Egypt at this time...the relationships found suggest that the population of the town in 700 B.C was entirely of Egyptian origin..they show further,that the population of lakish was probably derived from upper Egypt.James e Brunson

By inference I'd have to say some body was!!!
That is from Greek Mythology and the "Aethiopia" they were referring to isn't present day "Ethiopia". That was the term the Greeks applied to all of Black Africa. They even called Egyptians "Aethiop" at times. Just meant black skinned people and Aethiopia was applied to lands controlled/dominated by black skinned people. If you look at old maps of Africa back in the 1800s and 1700s you will see that they called most if not all of Africa Ethiopia at one point. Then in the 70s present day Ethiopia decided to use the term to refer to themselves. Before which time they were known as El Habasha or Abyssinia as it was called by the Europeans
Just to keep records straight...

In Ityopia, there exists at least two thousand year old written record of the name Ityopia. Any Ethiopian would tell you that the word was not etymologically greek. It is an Afrikan word.

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Ah ok well then I suggest you watch the videos and see what Finkelstein says for himself. He isn't saying what your claiming.

As for me not listening to Finkelstein that's comical. He isn't talking rocket science, its very simple to gather what he is saying.

1. The biblical stories are a myth
2. when you dig down what you find is polytheist NOT some mythical monotheistic people

Its that simple. The current group of people calling themselves Jews can only really date their beliefs back to Herod's time.

---

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Ok, so I didn't want to hijack the other thread anymore so I figured we can discuss the historicity of the Hebrew myth here. I will cut and past what I have replied to so far and we can go on from there.

---

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Please explain yourself Tukuler

---

1. The Hebrew (ethnolinguistic) mythology is not Judeo-Xian mythology.
   
   Hebrew literature stands unique, separate, independent,
   and predates the Greek Scriptures and Xianity. Xianity
   cannot stand alone from Hebrew literature. It depends
   on it. However, the reverse is not true.
   
   .
   .
2. Myth is not historiography. Legends have strata of historicity.
   
   I think mythology deals more with cosmogny, nature, and
   elementals. Legends involve personages, places, and events
   relating to some substrata of real people, actual locations,
   and assumed happenings.
   
   EX. The archeaology of Sennacherib's throne room supports that Hebrew
   narratives on Assyria conquering the city Lachish have an historic substrata.

Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by africurious:
^typezeiss, i think you should separate the topics of modern jews and the ancient hebrews or whoever they were. We can discuss the historicity of the ancients without adding unnecessary complication by discussing modern jews (that can be done in another thread). (Btw, I agree the evidence is overwhelming that most modern jews aren't direct descendants of the ancient ppl whom they claim.)

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Please explain yourself Tukuler

---

1. The Hebrew (ethnolinguistic) mythology is not Judeo-Xian mythology.
   
   Hebrew literature stands unique, separate, independent,
   and predates the Greek Scriptures and Xianity. Xianity
   cannot stand alone from Hebrew literature. It depends
   on it. However, the reverse is not true.
   
   .
   .
2. Myth is not historiography. Legends have strata of historicity.
   
   I think mythology deals more with cosmogny, nature, and
   elementals. Legends involve personages, places, and events
   relating to some substrata of real people, actual locations,
   and assumed happenings.
   
   EX. The archeaology of Sennacherib's throne room supports that Hebrew
   narratives on Assyria conquering the city Lachish have an historic substrata.

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Please explain yourself Tukuler

---

[list=1]
[*]The Hebrew (ethnolinguistic) mythology is not Judeo-Xian mythology.

Hebrew literature stands unique, separate, independent,
and predates the Greek Scriptures and Xianity. Xianity
cannot stand alone from Hebrew literature. It depends
on it. However, the reverse is not true.

---

Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Please explain yourself Tukuler

---

[list=1]
[*]The Hebrew (ethnolinguistic) mythology is not Judeo-Xian mythology.

Hebrew literature stands unique, separate, independent,
and predates the Greek Scriptures and Xianity. Xianity
cannot stand alone from Hebrew literature. It depends
on it. However, the reverse is not true.

---

"Xianity
cannot stand alone from Hebrew literature. It depends
on it."

and Islam following after, as Dr. John Henrik Clarke pointed out, is a copy of a copy

(but the Angel Gabriel was real, LOL)

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:
what does this have to do with the price of rice in China? [/QB]

---

Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:
what does this have to do with the price of rice in China?

---

a more keep it real thread title for this thread would be
Judeo-Christian-Islamic Mythology

did Abraham and Ishmael exist? [/QB]

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Unnecessary. If Judeo-Christianity is shown to be a myth (like the holocau$t) then you don't need to address the other copies.

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:
I do not believe these stories negate the religions

---

Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
[qb] That Syria was once the domain of Cepheus, an Ethiopian king,Tacitus wrote that the Romans believed that the Jews originated in Ethiopia but fled the persecutions of the King. Strabo,even earlier,stressed that people of Western Judea was Africiod:

---

original source:

The Histories

By Tacitus

Written 109 A.C.E.

Translated by Alfred John Church and William Jackson Brodribb

Table of Contents

Book V

Some say that the Jews were fugitives from the island of Crete, who settled on the nearest coast of Africa about the time when Saturn was driven from his throne by the power of Jupiter. Evidence of this is sought in the name. There is a famous mountain in Crete called Ida; the neighbouring tribe, the Idaei, came to be called Judaei by a barbarous lengthening of the national name. Others assert that in the reign of Isis the overflowing population of Egypt, led by Hierosolymus and Judas, discharged itself into the neighbouring countries. Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin, who in the time of king Cepheus were driven by fear and hatred of their neighbours to seek a new dwelling-place. Others describe them as an Assyrian horde who, not having sufficient territory, took possession of part of Egypt, and founded cities of their own in what is called the Hebrew country, lying on the borders of Syria. Others, again, assign a very distinguished origin to the Jews, alleging that they were the Solymi, a nation celebrated in the poems of Homer, who called the city which they founded Hierosolyma after their own name.



http://www.nd.edu/~sheridan/Dothan.pdf

Am J Phys Anthropol. 2005 Oct;128(2):466-76.
Bioarchaeological analysis of cultural transition in the southern Levant using dental nonmetric traits.
Ullinger JM, Sheridan SG, Hawkey DE, Turner CG 2nd, Cooley R.
Source
Department of Anthropology, Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA. Ullinger.1@osu.edu




_________________________________________________^^^^^^

Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

**The earliest certain link with Egypt is 664 B.C., the date of the Assyrian sack of the Egyptian capital at Thebes. Although it is often possible to locate earlier events quite precisely relative to each other, neither surviving contemporary documents nor scientific dating methods such as carbon 14, dendrochronology, thermoluminescence, and archaeoastronomy are able to provide the required accuracy to fix these events absolutely in time.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/?period=02®ion=wam


Following:


*Millions of Jews traced to four women

Study identifies genetic signatures for 3.5 million Ashkenazi Jews


NEW YORK — About 3.5 million of today’s Ashkenazi Jews — 40 percent of the total Ashkenazi population — are descended from just four women, a genetic study indicates.
Those women apparently lived somewhere in Europe within the last 2,000 years, but not necessarily in the same place or even the same century, said lead author Dr. Doron Behar of the Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, Israel.

He did the work with Karl Skorecki of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology and others.

Each woman left a genetic signature that shows up in their descendants today, he and colleagues say in a report published online by the American Journal of Human Genetics. Together, their four signatures appear in about 40 percent of Ashkenazi Jews, while being virtually absent in non-Jews and found only rarely in Jews of non-Ashkenazi origin, the researchers said.

They said the total Ashkenazi population is estimated at around 8 million people. The estimated world Jewish population is about 13 million.

Ashkenazi Jews are a group with mainly central and eastern European ancestry. Ultimately, though, they can be traced back to Jews who migrated from Israel to Italy in the first and second centuries, Behar said. Eventually this group moved to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries and expanded greatly, reaching about 10 million just before World War II, he said.

Maternal lineages traced

The study involved mitochondrial DNA, called mtDNA, which is passed only through the mother. A woman can pass her mtDNA to grandchildren only by having daughters. So mtDNA is “the perfect tool to trace maternal lineages,” Behar said Thursday in a telephone interview.

His study involved analyzing mtDNA from more than 11,000 samples representing 67 populations.

Mike Hammer, who does similar research at the University of Arizona, said he found the work tracing back to just four ancestors “quite plausible ... I think they’ve done a really good job of tackling this question.”

But he said it’s not clear the women lived in Europe.

“They may have existed in the Near East,” Hammer said. “We don’t know exactly where the four women were, but their descendants left a legacy in the population today, whereas ... other women’s descendants did not.”

Behar said the four women he referred to did inherit their genetic signatures from female ancestors who lived in the Near East. But he said he preferred to focus on these later European descendants because they were at the root of the Ashkenazi population explosion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10827385/ns/technology_and_science-science/


Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin1,2,3 et al.

1 Department of Haematology and Genetic Pathology, School of Medicine, Flinders University, Adelaide, Australia
2 Department of Human Genetics, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel
3 Current Address: Blood Bank, Sheba Medical Center, Ramat-Gan 52621, Israel

"The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms"


The origin of Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, and their affinities to other Jewish and European populations are still not resolved.


Studies that compared them by genetic distance analysis of autosomal markers to European Mediterranean populations revealed that they are closer to Europeans than to other Jewish populations [1-3].

In contrast, according to the Y-chromosomal haplogroups EEJ are closest to the non-Jewish populations of the Eastern Mediterranean (table 3, figure 4).


"EEJ are the largest and most investigated Jewish community, yet their history as Franco-German Jewry is known to us only since their appearance in the 9th century, and their subsequent migration a few hundred years later to Eastern Europe [4,5]. Where did these Jews come from? It seems that they came to Germany and France from Italy [5-8].


It is also possible that some Jews migrated northward from the Italian colonies on the northern shore of the Black Sea [9]. All these Jews are likely the descendents of proselytes.

Conversion to Judaism was common in Rome in the first centuries BC and AD. Judaism gained many followers among all ranks of Roman Society [10-13]."


The autosomal genetic distance analysis presented here clearly demonstrates that the investigated Jewish populations do not share a common origin.


The resemblance of EEJ to Italians and other European populations portrays them as an autochthonous European population.



**The demographic histories of three Jewish populations exemplify how different demographic patterns make the uniparental markers more reliable for Iraqi (Babylonian) Jews and Yemenite Jews and less reliable for EEJ. Both Yemenite Jews and Iraqi Jews resemble populations from their regions of origin according to autosomal markers [1,3,30-32].


**Babylonian Jews numbered more than a million in the first century AD [35], and constituted the majority of the population in the area between the Euphrates and the Tigris in the 2nd-3rd centuries AD [36]. Gilbert [37] estimates that by 600 AD there were 806,000 Jews in Mesopotamia, and according to Sassoon [38] it was inhabited by about a million Jews in the 7th century. In the 14th century the estimates for Baghdad alone range from 70,000 to hundreds thousands [38].

*By comparing the structure of the STRs network among the various Ashkenazi populations and among the various European non-Jewish populations they reached the conclusion that a single male founder introduced this haplogroup into Ashkenazi Jews in the first millennium.

http://www.biology-direct.com/content/5/1/57


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.




Welcome!

The Jewish E Project (formerly Jewish E3b Project) is open to all males in Y-DNA haplogroup E and any of its subclades, who have KNOWN Jewish ancestry on their direct paternal line (your father's father's father, etc).

The E haplogroup has been observed in all Jewish groups world wide. One of its major subclades, E1b1b (formerly E3b) is considered to be the 2nd most prevalent haplogroup among the Jewish population.

According to one major paper, Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome variation in Ashkenazi Jewish and host non-Jewish European populations E-M35, which defines the E1b1b1 (formerly E3b1) haplogroup, is considered to be the second highest, next to J, for "Founding Jewish Lineages" in Europe. It is found in moderate amounts in all Jewish populations, from Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Kurdish, Yemen, Samaritan and even among Djerba Jewish groups.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/JEWISHE3BPROJECT/default.aspx












Assyrian Soldiers

---

Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Behar said the four women he referred to did inherit their genetic signatures from female ancestors who lived in the Near East.

---

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are just dressed down versions of the kemetic religion.

---

Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are just dressed down versions of the kemetic religion.

---

Well I guess you're not a Muslim then

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
^ This doesn't really address the Behar 2006 study re the exact origins of the four "founder women".

But it's amazing how they have no problem dismissing African Jews from Ethiopia as converts, "mostly descend from Ethiopian Africans who converted to Judaism," however white Jews are more "authentic", there are only "traces of European and Khazar ancestry among European Jews." LOL

---

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are just dressed down versions of the kemetic religion.

---

Well I guess you're not a Muslim then

---

Islam unlike the other religions state it is not a new religion, it is a reform of the previous religions. It is stated these previous religions became corrupted through time. So there is nothing out of line with saying it has its origin in Kemet. While Islam does not spell out its geographic origin, it does give voice to the fact it comes from a much earlier tradition.

---

Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are just dressed down versions of the kemetic religion.

---

Well I guess you're not a Muslim then

---

Islam unlike the other religions state it is not a new religion, it is a reform of the previous religions. It is stated these previous religions became corrupted through time. So there is nothing out of line with saying it has its origin in Kemet. While Islam does not spell out its geographic origin, it does give voice to the fact it comes from a much earlier tradition.

---

...
and Judiasm, Christainity and Islam are not a rejection of African and Near Eastern beliefs in multiple deities?
Why does Islam not aknowledge Amun Ra, Horus, Osiris, Sekhmet, Anubis etc. etc. ?

and there was no religion prior to Kemet?
...

---

Islam acknowledges the supremacy of Amen-Ra each time a muslim like you uses the holy name of Amin, to end their prayers. In deeper Islam, there is Amin, the male and there is Aminata, the female.


And yes, Horus lives on as the star besides the crescent moon.

Osiris is now preserved as the name Waziri, in Islam. Waziri or Wasiri, is associated with leadership.

Isis a manifestation of Sekhmet lives on in Islam as Aisha.

And Annubis is probably the owner of the Islamic hell.

Lionese my dunce, you need to reflect, before you shoot...

Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
DNA evidence shows that on their paternal side Ashkenazi Jews are primarily descended from the Middle East, not from Khazars or other indigenous European peoples
There is no trace of any Turkic language in the language spoken by Eastern European Jews, Yiddish . An article in Science states that Sand's hypotheses "clash with several recent studies suggesting that Jewishness, including the Ashkenazi version, has deep genetic roots". According to Sarah Tishkoff, a geneticist at the University of Pennsylvania, Ostrer's study "clearly shows a genetic common ancestry of all Jewish populations."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

**The earliest certain link with Egypt is 664 B.C., the date of the Assyrian sack of the Egyptian capital at Thebes. Although it is often possible to locate earlier events quite precisely relative to each other, neither surviving contemporary documents nor scientific dating methods such as carbon 14, dendrochronology, thermoluminescence, and archaeoastronomy are able to provide the required accuracy to fix these events absolutely in time.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/?period=02®ion=wam


Following:


*Millions of Jews traced to four women

Study identifies genetic signatures for 3.5 million Ashkenazi Jews


NEW YORK — About 3.5 million of today’s Ashkenazi Jews — 40 percent of the total Ashkenazi population — are descended from just four women, a genetic study indicates.
Those women apparently lived somewhere in Europe within the last 2,000 years, but not necessarily in the same place or even the same century, said lead author Dr. Doron Behar of the Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, Israel.

He did the work with Karl Skorecki of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology and others.

Each woman left a genetic signature that shows up in their descendants today, he and colleagues say in a report published online by the American Journal of Human Genetics. Together, their four signatures appear in about 40 percent of Ashkenazi Jews, while being virtually absent in non-Jews and found only rarely in Jews of non-Ashkenazi origin, the researchers said.

They said the total Ashkenazi population is estimated at around 8 million people. The estimated world Jewish population is about 13 million.

Ashkenazi Jews are a group with mainly central and eastern European ancestry. Ultimately, though, they can be traced back to Jews who migrated from Israel to Italy in the first and second centuries, Behar said. Eventually this group moved to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries and expanded greatly, reaching about 10 million just before World War II, he said.

Maternal lineages traced

The study involved mitochondrial DNA, called mtDNA, which is passed only through the mother. A woman can pass her mtDNA to grandchildren only by having daughters. So mtDNA is “the perfect tool to trace maternal lineages,” Behar said Thursday in a telephone interview.

His study involved analyzing mtDNA from more than 11,000 samples representing 67 populations.

Mike Hammer, who does similar research at the University of Arizona, said he found the work tracing back to just four ancestors “quite plausible ... I think they’ve done a really good job of tackling this question.”

But he said it’s not clear the women lived in Europe.

“They may have existed in the Near East,” Hammer said. “We don’t know exactly where the four women were, but their descendants left a legacy in the population today, whereas ... other women’s descendants did not.”

Behar said the four women he referred to did inherit their genetic signatures from female ancestors who lived in the Near East. But he said he preferred to focus on these later European descendants because they were at the root of the Ashkenazi population explosion.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10827385/ns/technology_and_science-science/


Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin1,2,3 et al.

1 Department of Haematology and Genetic Pathology, School of Medicine, Flinders University, Adelaide, Australia
2 Department of Human Genetics, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel
3 Current Address: Blood Bank, Sheba Medical Center, Ramat-Gan 52621, Israel

"The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms"


The origin of Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, and their affinities to other Jewish and European populations are still not resolved.


Studies that compared them by genetic distance analysis of autosomal markers to European Mediterranean populations revealed that they are closer to Europeans than to other Jewish populations [1-3].

In contrast, according to the Y-chromosomal haplogroups EEJ are closest to the non-Jewish populations of the Eastern Mediterranean (table 3, figure 4).


"EEJ are the largest and most investigated Jewish community, yet their history as Franco-German Jewry is known to us only since their appearance in the 9th century, and their subsequent migration a few hundred years later to Eastern Europe [4,5]. Where did these Jews come from? It seems that they came to Germany and France from Italy [5-8].


It is also possible that some Jews migrated northward from the Italian colonies on the northern shore of the Black Sea [9]. All these Jews are likely the descendents of proselytes.

Conversion to Judaism was common in Rome in the first centuries BC and AD. Judaism gained many followers among all ranks of Roman Society [10-13]."


The autosomal genetic distance analysis presented here clearly demonstrates that the investigated Jewish populations do not share a common origin.


The resemblance of EEJ to Italians and other European populations portrays them as an autochthonous European population.



**The demographic histories of three Jewish populations exemplify how different demographic patterns make the uniparental markers more reliable for Iraqi (Babylonian) Jews and Yemenite Jews and less reliable for EEJ. Both Yemenite Jews and Iraqi Jews resemble populations from their regions of origin according to autosomal markers [1,3,30-32].


**Babylonian Jews numbered more than a million in the first century AD [35], and constituted the majority of the population in the area between the Euphrates and the Tigris in the 2nd-3rd centuries AD [36]. Gilbert [37] estimates that by 600 AD there were 806,000 Jews in Mesopotamia, and according to Sassoon [38] it was inhabited by about a million Jews in the 7th century. In the 14th century the estimates for Baghdad alone range from 70,000 to hundreds thousands [38].

*By comparing the structure of the STRs network among the various Ashkenazi populations and among the various European non-Jewish populations they reached the conclusion that a single male founder introduced this haplogroup into Ashkenazi Jews in the first millennium.

http://www.biology-direct.com/content/5/1/57


Isaiah 20:4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.




Welcome!

The Jewish E Project (formerly Jewish E3b Project) is open to all males in Y-DNA haplogroup E and any of its subclades, who have KNOWN Jewish ancestry on their direct paternal line (your father's father's father, etc).

The E haplogroup has been observed in all Jewish groups world wide. One of its major subclades, E1b1b (formerly E3b) is considered to be the 2nd most prevalent haplogroup among the Jewish population.

According to one major paper, Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome variation in Ashkenazi Jewish and host non-Jewish European populations E-M35, which defines the E1b1b1 (formerly E3b1) haplogroup, is considered to be the second highest, next to J, for "Founding Jewish Lineages" in Europe. It is found in moderate amounts in all Jewish populations, from Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Kurdish, Yemen, Samaritan and even among Djerba Jewish groups.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/JEWISHE3BPROJECT/default.aspx












Assyrian Soldiers

---

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This picture was included in my post....you left it out!

Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by the lioness:

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

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Originally posted by the lioness:

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Originally posted by typeZeiss:

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are just dressed down versions of the kemetic religion.

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Well I guess you're not a Muslim then

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Islam unlike the other religions state it is not a new religion, it is a reform of the previous religions. It is stated these previous religions became corrupted through time. So there is nothing out of line with saying it has its origin in Kemet. While Islam does not spell out its geographic origin, it does give voice to the fact it comes from a much earlier tradition.

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So Islam is basically Kemetic religion?
why is Mecca not in Egypt centered around a pyramid rather than a black stone?

and Kemetic religion is not based on mythology?

and Judiasm, Christainity and Islam are not a rejection of African and Near Eastern beliefs in multiple deities?
Why does Islam not aknowledge Amun Ra, Horus, Osiris, Sekhmet, Anubis etc. etc. ?

and there was no religion prior to Kemet?

and more importantly what are the primary "corrections" that Islam made to Judaism and Christianity to return it to Kemetic religion? Does Muhammad speak of returning to Kemetic beliefs?

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Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Typezeiss:
When Sunni Muslims close out their prayer they close it with Amen, where do you think that came from?

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African's do not believe in multiple deities, that is something Europeans indulge in. EVERY African religion has a belief in a supreme being from which ALL things came, that's called monotheism.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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If there was no Ancient Israelite kingdom

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Swenet:
Obviously, Typezeiss is out to get the best of both worlds, and sit on the fence, so to speak. He wants to claim an Egyptian origin for his religion (which his religion says is inherently pagan), and be a devout Muslim as well. Nothing wrong with that from a democratic viewpoint, but he’s obviously confused for trying to harmonize both intellectually and religiously. I know of no Muslim that wouldn’t call this proposal anything short of open blasphemy.

9 times out of 10, the bible condemns ancient Egyptian religious traditions and their most related counterparts to the South, in Cush. It also makes it clear that Egypt and Cush were to be reformed religiously, with Hebrew religious customs, not that Egypt and Cush were to reform the Middle East religiously.

While it is true that the Koran maintains its purpose is to replenish the supposedly corrupted previous Abrahamic religions, this obviously doesn’t offer a free ticket to go beyond the texts of those exact same preceding Abrahamic religions, to look for origins (duhh).

If there was no Ancient Israelite kingdom, as he maintains, then it is impossible for him to be a devout muslim, as Lioness correctly asserts, since the Koran positions itself as an improved, more recent version of those earlier Abrahamic religions, and furthermore, it (the Koran) holds in high regard all the Bronze age mythical prophets Typezeiss claims are fabricated.

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Originally posted by Typezeiss:
When Sunni Muslims close out their prayer they close it with Amen, where do you think that came from?

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The name of the Egypto-Nubian deity 'Amun', 'Amen' or other variations have nothing whatsoever to do with the word that various religious proponants use to end their prayers.

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African's do not believe in multiple deities, that is something Europeans indulge in. EVERY African religion has a belief in a supreme being from which ALL things came, that's called monotheism.

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This is also not true.
The idea you talk about, where all deities are manifestations of a single deity, is a later idea. The earliest Egyptians did practice a form of polytheism, like many other Africans did, and some in fact still do.

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You don't know what your talking about.

1. Islam does NOT say Egypt was pagan. Though it does condemn some of the pharaohs. So wrong there

2. Open blasphemy lol, you don't know what your talking about. Do you know what Shirk is? What constitutes shirk? Go ahead and google it and come back and pretend as if you knew before hand. I studied under a Mufti for the better part of my young adult hood (early 20s into my 30s. So you trying to tell me about my religion is comical at best. I will leave you to google what a Mufti is

You know what, im in a good mood so let me educate your ignorant @ss. Shirk is setting up partners with God. You don't seem to know anything about the religion of Ancient Egypt. Read Barnals work, Masseys work, Budges work, Diop's work etc. concerning the religion of the Ancient Egyptians. All site the same thing. The Egyptians said that Amon was One, absolute, without partners, none was like him etc. etc. When we look at the cosmogony of Annu with Atum/Tem you get the SAME thing, one, without partners who then created. the Neteru are nothing more than divine emanations. Before trying to talk on a situation you clearly know nothing about first educate yourself, then get back to me.

3. you stating that amen has nothing to do with how various religions end their prayers means nothing. I can say the sky is purple, still sounds just a moronic as your assertions do

As for what the earlier Egyptians practiced, again you dont know what your talking about. Your using your opinions which seems to be based off your emotions. Much like a animal when it makes a move. Become a human, base your statements on facts and then use critical thinking. Read Budges book "the Egyptian Gods". He clearly states from all the records they had at that time, that the priesthood clearly advocated a single, supreme deity. Do you even know what the creation story is for the Egyptians? If you did, you wouldn't be stating such absolute stupidity. The creation story in and of itself advocates ONE deity from which he created emanations of himself. The stupidity of some on this board seems to be limitless.

The rest of it, I can't bother to address, its based on stupidity and not facts. Go do some research, then come back and talk with the grown ups when you are well versed in how to carry on mature discussions.

Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Swenet:
I already did, dummy.

In return, you said that the documents I cited were smoke screens. Demonstrate that the documents I cited constitute smoke screens in relation to what was asked of me, and make yourself usefull (i.e., bend over so I can intellectually kick you in the ass), will ya?

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Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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1. Islam does NOT say Egypt was pagan. Though it does condemn some of the pharaohs. So wrong there

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2. Open blasphemy lol, you don't know what your talking about.

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Read Barnals work, Masseys work, Budges work, Diop's work etc. concerning the religion of the Ancient Egyptians. All site the same thing. The Egyptians said that Amon was One, absolute, without partners, none was like him

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you stating that amen has nothing to do with how various religions end their prayers means nothing. I can say the sky is purple, still sounds just a moronic as your assertions do

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As for what the earlier Egyptians practiced, again you dont know what your talking about. Your using your opinions which seems to be based off your emotions. Much like a animal when it makes a move.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:

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Originally posted by Swenet:
I already did, dummy.

In return, you said that the documents I cited were smoke screens. Demonstrate that the documents I cited constitute smoke screens in relation to what was asked of me, and make yourself usefull (i.e., bend over so I can intellectually kick you in the ass), will ya?

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LOL! No you didn't. No need to return to any of your "documents" because like the Christians and their "Jesus box" (that tuned out to be a fake) all you Biblical nuts do is use flimsy "evidence" and stretch them as far as it can go, then let your imaginations do the work.

A fragment of a stele that contains inscriptions with varying interpretations and dates 150 years after "Davids supposed reign" (your words) does not count as evidence for a united kingdom under a Jewish monarch. Maybe the reality is that there were primitive "city sates" of huts and different tribes, but nothing to validate the fanciful stories re an "Israelite Kingdom" in the Hebrew book of myths.

This is why the respectable archeologists and scholars (as oppose to the "archeologists" on say TBN) working in Israel trying to validate the stories always contextualise their 'findings" with things like "is this the evidence", "could this be it" etc etc. Nothing solid, only wishful thinking.

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
You accuse others of lying and absolute statements when you yourself wrote "the ancient document (Tel Dan inscription) that that contains Davids name." HAHAHHA Oh really now? David's name?? According to whom?

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Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

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Demonstrate that it's not 'David' that's carved on that passage, but some other word.

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LOL

There is no agreement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David

Epic fail

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged |