Ancient Soqotri genomes over 1,000 years document a small, consanguineous, and genetically homogenous population with deep connections to the Arabian Peninsula
Speaker: Kendra Sirak Harvard University, USA Co-authors: Julian Jansen van Rensburg1, Iosif Lazaridis2, Bowen Chen2, David Reich2
1 PaleoWest, USA 2 Harvard University, USA
Abstract: The island of Soqotra, situated at the mouth of the Gulf of Aden in the northwest Indian Ocean, is home to ~60,000 people subsisting through fishing and semi-nomadic pastoralism and speaking a unique Modern South Arabian language within the Semitic language family. Most of what is known about Soqotri history derives from writings of foreign traders who provided little detail about the local population. Here, we report ancient DNA data from 39 individuals who lived between ~650-1750 CE at six locations across the island. Genomic data attest to strong connections between Soqotra and the Arabian Peninsula, especially to the Hadramawt region of coastal South Arabia. Modeling the Soqotri gene pool requires a ~55% contribution from a Natufian-like source, while models with a Neolithic Levantine-related source do not fit. This Natufian-related source is also required to model the ancestry of present-day people from the Hadramawt, while other groups living in Arabia and the Levant often are mostly better modeled with a Neolithic Levantine-related proxy. These data suggest that Natufian-like ancestry was also present in the Arabian Peninsula and that later Levantine-related ancestry may not have permeated throughout the entirety of this region. Soqotra was home to a small and consanguineous population during the Medieval Period: long ROH at the level typical of offspring for second cousins in six out of 10 individuals of sufficient coverage likely reflects cultural preference for cross-cousin marriage. A longstanding question has been whether the Soqotri segregated burial tafoni by sex. We provide genetic evidence supporting the co-burial of males and females and document both matrilineal and patrilineal relationships evident in burial practices.
ABSTRACT HGP-023 Genetic study of ancient Egyptian human remains dating from the Predynastic Period to the early Islamic Period (ca. 4000 cal. BCE - 800 cal. CE) Speaker: Alexandra Mussauer Eurac Research - Institute for Mummy Studies, Italy; Ludwig Maximilian University Munich, Germany Co-authors: Christina Wurst1,2, Alice Paladin1, Valentina Coia1, Frank Maixner1, Albert Zink1
1 Eurac Research - Institute for Mummy Studies, Italy 2 Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz, Germany
Abstract: Due to high-throughput sequencing and targeted enrichment methods, ancient DNA (aDNA) analysis is emerging as a valuable tool for the investigation of ancient Egypt’s demographic history. However, the recovery of aDNA from Egyptian human remains is challenging due to poor DNA preservation and a high contamination risk. Thus, so far, less than five ancient Egyptian genome-wide datasets have been published. In addition, mitochondrial genomes are almost exclusively limited to a timespan ranging from the New Kingdom to the Roman Period (1550 BCE - 395 CE) as well as to a single archaeological site (Abusir el-Meleq). To extend the pool of ancient Egyptian genome datasets, both mitochondrial and genome-wide, we report the results of a genetic study of 100 ancient Egyptian human remains. Overall, these individuals exhibit an endogenous human DNA content between 0.01% and 40.84%. Using an enrichment capture targeting the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), we were able to reconstruct complete mitogenomes for 25 individuals dating from the Predynastic Period to the Coptic Period (ca. 3500 cal. BCE - 650 cal. CE) and encompassing the archaeological sites of Asyut, Akhmim, Deir el-Bahari, Deir el-Medina, Thebes, the Valley of the Queens, and Gebelein. These genomes exhibit a mtDNA haplogroup diversity similar to ancient Egyptian haplogroup profiles published by Schuenemann, et al. Nat. Comm. 2017. This provides further evidence for shared maternal ancestries between western Eurasian or northern African populations and ancient Egyptians during and after the New Kingdom. In addition, we also found western Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups in individuals dated to periods prior to the New Kingdom. Furthermore, we performed a whole-genome enrichment capture on seven individuals to test these findings also on a genome-wide scale. Overall, this study provides further insights into the demographic history of ancient Egyptians considering a broader geographical context and the older periods of Egypt’s past.
ABSTRACT HG2-005
Genomes from Pastoral Neolithic Sahara reveal ancestral north African lineage Speaker: Nada Salem Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Germany Co-authors: Marieke van de Loosdrecht1,2, Arev Pelin Sümer1, Stefania Vai3, Alexander Hübner1, Kay Prüfer1, Raffaela Bianco1, Marta Burri4, Mary Anne Tafuri5, Giorgio Manzi5, Harald Ringbauer1, David Caramelli3, Savino di Lernia5,6, Johannes Krause1
1 Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Germany 2 Wageningen University, the Netherlands 3 University of Florence, Italy 4 Swiss Ornithological Institute, Switzerland 5 Sapienza University of Rome, Italy 6 University of Witwatersrand, South Africa
Abstract: Known as one of the most arid areas on the planet today, the Sahara Desert was, in fact, a green savannah in the Holocene, dotted by forests and water bodies that promoted human occupation and fostered pastoralism. Due to the present-day climatic conditions, ancient DNA does not preserve well in the region, resulting in limited knowledge of the Sahara’s demographic past. Here, we report the first ancient human genome-wide data from the Saharan Pastoral Neolithic. We obtained genomic data from two ca. 7000-year old female pastoralists buried in the Takarkori rock shelter at the heart of the Tadrart Acacus massif in southwestern Libya, which was used as a burial ground by pastoral communities. We find that the majority of the Takarkori individuals’ ancestry stems from a previously unknown lineage that appears to have remained isolated for most of its existence. Both individuals are most closely related to the preceding 15,000-year-old foragers from Morocco associated with the Iberomaurusian techno-complex, whereas both Takarkori and Iberomaurusian individuals are distantly related to sub-Saharan African lineages. The quality of one of the genomes from Takarkori is sufficient to detect prospective Neandertal ancestry and we find evidence for few segments of ancestry that sum to a total comparable to that detected in the genomes of sub-Saharan Africans. Our results therefore support a model of cultural diffusion, rather than human migration, for the emergence of pastoralist subsistence in the Sahara region.
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To extend the pool of ancient Egyptian genome datasets, both mitochondrial and genome-wide, we report the results of a genetic study of 100 ancient Egyptian human remains. Overall, these individuals exhibit an endogenous human DNA content between 0.01% and 40.84%. Using an enrichment capture targeting the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), we were able to reconstruct complete mitogenomes for 25 individuals dating from the Predynastic Period to the Coptic Period (ca. 3500 cal. BCE - 650 cal. CE) and encompassing the archaeological sites of Asyut, Akhmim, Deir el-Bahari, Deir el-Medina, Thebes, the Valley of the Queens, and Gebelein. These genomes exhibit a mtDNA haplogroup diversity similar to ancient Egyptian haplogroup profiles published by Schuenemann, et al. Nat. Comm. 2017. This provides further evidence for shared maternal ancestries between western Eurasian or northern African populations and ancient Egyptians during and after the New Kingdom. In addition, we also found western Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups in individuals dated to periods prior to the New Kingdom.
Shall be interesting to see if and when they publish a comprehensive article in a journal about these results. Maybe it will revive the debate about the affinity of the Ancient Egyptians.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2961 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Cant find any of these anywhere, but I did find this:
quote: Four thousand years of maternal ancestry in ancient Egypt illuminated by mitochondrial genome sequencing Mussauer, Alexandra (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Wurst, Christina (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Paladin, Alice (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Coia, Valentina (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Maixner, Frank (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Helmbold- Doyé, Jana (Ägyptisches Museum und Papyrussammlung, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin, Berlin, Germany); Del Vesco, Paolo (Museo Egizio, Fondazione Museo delle Antichità Egizie di Torino, Turin, Italy); Rosendahl, Wilfried (Reiss-Engelhorn-Museen Mannheim, Mannheim, Germany); Zink, Albert (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); During the last decade, the population genetic history of ancient Egypt has been illuminated by an increasing number of genetic studies on ancient Egyptian human remains from different time periods utilizing high-throughput sequencing methods. Nonetheless, mitochondrial genomes representative of the Egyptian population prior to the New Kingdom (1550 - 1069 BC) are still scarce. Therefore, in this study, we analyzed samples taken from 99 ancient Egyptian mummified or skeletonized individuals housed in the collections of the Museo Egizio of Turin and the Egyptian Museum and Papyrus Collection of the Staatliche Museen zu Berlin. These individuals have been recovered from different archaeological sites in Egypt and encompass a timeframe ranging from about 4000 BC to AD 800. All samples were analyzed using next- generation sequencing methods, including mitochondrial DNA enrichments. Following the application of criteria for authenticity and quality control, we were able to reconstruct 34 mitochondrial genomes of ancient Egyptian individuals, predominantly from southern Egypt, that have been dated from the Predynastic to the Byzantine Period (3600 BC - AD 650). Our data supports the presence of western Eurasian and northeastern African mitochondrial haplogroups in Egypt throughout antiquity. Furthermore, the mitochondrial genomes extend the pool of available datasets, adding novel information for the older periods of Egypt’s past as well as for a broader geographical context. Thereby, this study constitutes another important step for the reconstruction of Egypt’s genetic history, which in the future could be further investigated by genome-wide studies.
From an organization I haven't heard of before, the Eurac Instute of Mummy Studies:
quote: Snapshots of the past times that help us to gain unique insights into our present. By studying skeletons and mummies from all over the world and from different historical periods, we gain knowledge on population history, the development of pathogens and the preservation of archaeological finds.
quote: Abstract #: 3703 INSIGHTS INTO ANCIENT EGYPTIAN GENOMES IN THE FIRST MILLENNIUM BC Nada Salem1,2, Guido Alberto Gnecchi Ruscone2, Angela Mötsch1, Barbara Teßmann3,4, Hannah Frenzel5, Maria Spyrou6, Michael Francken7, Katerina Harvati6,8, Philipp Stockhammer1,9, Johannes Krause1,2 1 Department of Archaeogenetic, Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History, Jena, Germany 2 Department of Archaeogenetics, Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Leipzig, Germany 3 Museum for Prehistory and Early History, SMPK Berlin, Germany 4 Berlin Society of Anthropology, Ethnology and Prehistory, Berlin, Germany 5 Institute of Anatomy, Leipzig University, Leipzig, Germany 6 Institute for Archaeological Sciences (INA), University of Tübingen, Tübingen, Germany 7 Cultural Heritage Management, Government office of Stuttgart, Baden Württemberg, Germany 8 Senckenberg Centre for Human Evolution and Palaeoenvironment, University of Tübingen, Tübingen, Germany 9 Institute for Pre- and Protohistoric Archaeology and Archaeology of the Roman Provinces, LMU Munich, Munich, Germany Egypt provides a privileged location to study historical population dynamics as it is at the crossroads between the ancient civilizations in Africa, Asia, and Europe. In the first millennium BC, ancient Egypt witnessed foreign domination by the neighboring populations including Libyans, Nubians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, and others, whose roles vary from trade exchange to invasion and rule. Despite being potential to addressing questions on the population’s demographic, retrieval of ancient DNA from the Egyptian mummies has greatly been challenged by the presence of contamination. Here we report a preliminary, rigorously tested genome-wide dataset from mummies using high-throughput DNA sequencing and targeted capture techniques. The individuals in our study are recovered from Upper and Lower Egypt sites and spanning around 900 years of ancient Egyptian history, from the Third Intermediate to the Roman period. Our study aims to characterize the major ancestry components for ancient Egyptians and to explore the genetic continuation and admixture through times and regions.
posted
From the, 9th International Symposium on Biomolecular Archaeology held in Toulouse, France in the summer of 2021 there is also this abstract:
quote: Urban, Christian; Neukamm, Judith; Eppenberger, Patrick; Brändle, Martin; Rühli, Frank and Schuenemann Verena, 2021: Human mitochondrial haplogroups and ancient DNA preservation across Egyptian history
quote: Egypt represents an ideal location for genetic studies on population migration and admixture due to its geographic location and rich history. However, there are only a few reliable genetic studies on ancient Egyptian samples. In a previous study, we assessed the genetic history of a single site: Abusir el-Meleq from 1388 BCE to 426 CE. We now focus on widening the geographic scope to give a general overview of the population genetic background, focusing on mitochondrial haplogroups present among the whole Egyptian Nile River Valley. We collected 81 tooth, hair, bone, and soft tissue samples from 14 mummies and 17 skeletal remains. The samples span approximately 4000 years of Egyptian history and originate from six different excavation sites covering the whole length of the Egyptian Nile River Valley. NGS based ancient DNA 8 were applied to reconstruct 18 high-quality mitochondrial genomes from 10 different individuals. The determined mitochondrial haplogroups match the results from our Abusir el-Meleq study. Our results indicate very low rates of modern DNA contamination independent of the tissue type. Although authentic ancient DNA was recovered from different tissues, a reliable recovery was best achieved using teeth or petrous bone material. Moreover, the rate for successful ancient DNA retrieval between Egyptian mummies and skeletal remains did not differ significantly. Our study provides preliminary insights into population history across different regions and compares tissue-specific DNA preservation for mummies and skeletal remains from the Egyptian Nile River Valley.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Cant find any of these anywhere, but I did find this:
quote: Four thousand years of maternal ancestry in ancient Egypt illuminated by mitochondrial genome sequencing Mussauer, Alexandra (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Wurst, Christina (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Paladin, Alice (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Coia, Valentina (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Maixner, Frank (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); Helmbold- Doyé, Jana (Ägyptisches Museum und Papyrussammlung, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin, Berlin, Germany); Del Vesco, Paolo (Museo Egizio, Fondazione Museo delle Antichità Egizie di Torino, Turin, Italy); Rosendahl, Wilfried (Reiss-Engelhorn-Museen Mannheim, Mannheim, Germany); Zink, Albert (Institute for Mummy Studies, Eurac Research, Bolzano, Italy); During the last decade, the population genetic history of ancient Egypt has been illuminated by an increasing number of genetic studies on ancient Egyptian human remains from different time periods utilizing high-throughput sequencing methods. Nonetheless, mitochondrial genomes representative of the Egyptian population prior to the New Kingdom (1550 - 1069 BC) are still scarce. Therefore, in this study, we analyzed samples taken from 99 ancient Egyptian mummified or skeletonized individuals housed in the collections of the Museo Egizio of Turin and the Egyptian Museum and Papyrus Collection of the Staatliche Museen zu Berlin. These individuals have been recovered from different archaeological sites in Egypt and encompass a timeframe ranging from about 4000 BC to AD 800. All samples were analyzed using next- generation sequencing methods, including mitochondrial DNA enrichments. Following the application of criteria for authenticity and quality control, we were able to reconstruct 34 mitochondrial genomes of ancient Egyptian individuals, predominantly from southern Egypt, that have been dated from the Predynastic to the Byzantine Period (3600 BC - AD 650). Our data supports the presence of western Eurasian and northeastern African mitochondrial haplogroups in Egypt throughout antiquity. Furthermore, the mitochondrial genomes extend the pool of available datasets, adding novel information for the older periods of Egypt’s past as well as for a broader geographical context. Thereby, this study constitutes another important step for the reconstruction of Egypt’s genetic history, which in the future could be further investigated by genome-wide studies.
I think this may be the same study as the one the OP cites. Same speaker and all that. The main difference is that, in the abstract you quote above, they mention Northeast African mtDNA lineages as well as West Eurasian ones.
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I hope we'll see the light of day of the actual Takortori study.
"Both individuals are most closely related to the preceding 15,000-year-old foragers from Morocco associated with the Iberomaurusian techno-complex, whereas both Takarkori and Iberomaurusian individuals are distantly related to sub-Saharan African lineages. The quality of one of the genomes from Takarkori is sufficient to detect prospective Neanderthal ancestry and we find evidence for few segments of ancestry that sum to a total comparable to that detected in the genomes of sub-Saharan Africans. Our results therefore support a model of cultural diffusion, rather than human migration, for the emergence of pastoralist subsistence in the Sahara region."
So as the title suggests they are likely biologically Ancestral North Africans. And the Neanderthal comment and the sentence which follows seems to imply that their not attributing their ancestry to recent isolated Eurasian migrations.
With the comparison to the Iberomaurasian, we have to consider a key aspect in their potential ethnogenesis. That revolving around m78 which could have been a recent acquisition for that region (Taforalt). This ANA ancestry that we'll find as far East as Southern Libya should be more important in piecing the puzzle of basal Eurasian and ANA substructure. Couple this with the basal maternal haplogroup N* found in the same region (maybe same samples) and we can see a clear picture of African substructure going back from the end of the humid phase.
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quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: I think this may be the same study as the one the OP cites. Same speaker and all that. The main difference is that, in the abstract you quote above, they mention Northeast African mtDNA lineages as well as West Eurasian ones.
Yes, that was interesting but couldn't find that other extract anywhere. I think like El Maestro said the key is finding ancient population structure of North Africa away from the coast and in the Sahara or Upper Nile, to identify novel lineages not previously identified and putting them in their proper context from 10 - 15KYA. This is still a vast untapped region of DNA prehistory and they have only been dabbling around the edges for the most part.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: [QB] I hope we'll see the light of day of the actual Takortori study.
We find that the majority of the Takarkori individuals’ ancestry stems from a previously unknown lineage that appears to have remained isolated for most of its existence.
Sorry I'm a little confused by this are they saying they don't know what this "unknown" lineage is or are they saying they previously didn't know and now they do..?
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: [QB] So as the title suggests they are likely biologically Ancestral North Africans
I'm not seeing this from the abstract personally. It looks like to me they're saying the two Takortori individuals are most related to the earlier 15kya Moroccans tested.
Posts: 76 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Mar 2023
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: [QB] I hope we'll see the light of day of the actual Takortori study.
We find that the majority of the Takarkori individuals’ ancestry stems from a previously unknown lineage that appears to have remained isolated for most of its existence.
Sorry I'm a little confused by this are they saying they don't know what this "unknown" lineage is or are they saying they previously didn't know and now they do..?
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: [QB] So as the title suggests they are likely biologically Ancestral North Africans
I'm not seeing this from the abstract personally. It looks like to me they're saying the two Takortori individuals are most related to the earlier 15kya Moroccans tested.
The two samples are of a lineage previously undiscovered and unique to them. Similar to the Mitochondrial haplogroup assignment from the same region and time (likely the same two individuals). By proxy if they are related to Ancestral North African they should be related to Taforalt, as the bulk of Taforalt's ancestry is likely from an Ancestral North African population. If you're trying to say that they'll just be similar to Taforalt with no insight on African substructure then you'd be contradicted by your initial concern as they state that Takorkori's lineage is newly discovered. Lastly, notice how they compared they Neanderthal ancestry to that of SSA and not that of Taforalt. What do you beleive that'll suggest in the long run?
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: If you're trying to say that they'll just be similar to Taforalt with no insight on African substructure then you'd be contradicted by your initial concern as they state that Takorkori's lineage is newly discovered
Yes they've said that this lineage is newly discovered but they are still saying it is more similar to Moroccan Foragers 15kya than Sub-Saharan Africans.
"Both individuals are most closely related to the preceding 15,000-year-old foragers from Morocco associated with the Iberomaurusian techno-complex, whereas both Takarkori and Iberomaurusian individuals are distantly related to sub-Saharan African lineages."
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Lastly, notice how they compared they Neanderthal ancestry to that of SSA and not that of Taforalt. What do you beleive that'll sugge didn't catchst in the long run?
You're absolutely right about this I don't know why I didn't catch that part. My apologies.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: If you're trying to say that they'll just be similar to Taforalt with no insight on African substructure then you'd be contradicted by your initial concern as they state that Takorkori's lineage is newly discovered
Yes they've said that this lineage is newly discovered but they are still saying it is more similar to Moroccan Foragers 15kya than Sub-Saharan Africans.
"Both individuals are most closely related to the preceding 15,000-year-old foragers from Morocco associated with the Iberomaurusian techno-complex, whereas both Takarkori and Iberomaurusian individuals are distantly related to sub-Saharan African lineages."
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: Lastly, notice how they compared they Neanderthal ancestry to that of SSA and not that of Taforalt. What do you beleive that'll sugge didn't catchst in the long run?
You're absolutely right about this I don't know why I didn't catch that part. My apologies.
It can seem confusing especially if your familiar with how modern Casual enthusiasts analyze samples and how modern professionals present information. But it is impossible for a lineage to be new and lack insight on related sample despite how close or similar they are to others. Such logic only persists in our imaginations where we use programs like Vahaduo to model individuals. Novel ancestry that is just previously discovered ancestry is an oxymoron.
If what the authors are saying is true it means that Takarkori are different from Iberomaurasians but are close by proxy like how the Natufian individuals were said to be closely related to the latter. Ancestral North African should occupy a space genetically distinct but likely sharing deep ancestry with modern "Subsaharan Africans." Taforalt has this ancestry.
Then again, I might be preemptively applying previous knowledge from an overall viewpoint. For instance, what sense does the physical, cultural, morphological affinities of these samples make when relating them to Taforalt and does it make sense that their descended from them? I'm also questioning the ancestry of Taforalt specimen themselves and asking which populations converged to spawn their genomic profile. We know that they likely have had some recent ancestry from the east given their paternal haplogroups. Should Takarkori pastoralists be related to those predecessors. And then there's the Neanderthal component. Note, it would be even more insightful to African substructure if the Takarkori two were more distant from SSA and carried less Neanderthal than Taforalt. Yet if the opposite is true the implications there wont even need to be stated.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: If you're trying to say that they'll just be similar to Taforalt with no insight on African substructure then you'd be contradicted by your initial concern as they state that Takorkori's lineage is newly discovered
Yes they've said that this lineage is newly discovered but they are still saying it is more similar to Moroccan Foragers 15kya than Sub-Saharan Africans.
"Both individuals are most closely related to the preceding 15,000-year-old foragers from Morocco associated with the Iberomaurusian techno-complex, whereas both Takarkori and Iberomaurusian individuals are distantly related to sub-Saharan African lineages."
It means that these Takarkori populations have a unique African lineage that is both ancestral to the Iberomaurisan populations and related to other African lineages, likely descendant. The issue is determining when this 'unique' lineage arose in the region and how to model the ancient populations that carried it and their relationships to other more ancient populations in the region.
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They'll just say these people are SSA mixed slave descendants and clutch pearls and whine about Afrocentrism..if you suggest these people are authentic Yemeni Arabs.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: They'll just say these people are SSA mixed slave descendants and clutch pearls and whine about Afrocentrism..if you suggest these people are authentic Yemeni Arabs.
Yeah, it's hard to take a lot of comments regarding genetic affinity serious now knowing the implicit nature of many poster's sentiments. Just as you and Bandon called out before. Some people try to use these studies to assert or reinstate characteristics outside of it's bounds. The biggest characteristic resides within lookership. Other ones include cultural implications such as the diffusion of subsistent strategies and anachronistic and spatially infeasible ancestry modeling. Examples are agro-pastoralism in Africa, and Anatolian farmers being a better fit than ancient Sardinians and southern iberians for North African proximate EEF ancestry respectively. We have modern day research, professional and casual, casting a shadow of confusion on decades if not a century of archaeology and multidisciplinary attempts.
Now watch how the morphologically Negroid Takarkori samples who seems to not have Eurasian ancestry (at least not shared with other Sub-Saharan Africans) will be spun post autosomal sequencing. Somehow someway they'll be Eurasianized because of the implications of Mt.DNA M and N and contemporaneous and later pocket populations particularly those of the Nile valley.
But the Soqotra study might go crazy, cuz if modern Soqotri can be better modeled with Post Natufian Levantine ancestry than those samples at Hadramawt then I honesty can't predict how people will spin that.
Posts: 1811 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: They'll just say these people are SSA mixed slave descendants and clutch pearls and whine about Afrocentrism..if you suggest these people are authentic Yemeni Arabs.
Hadramawt and the entire southern coast of Arabia have played a significant role in the East African slave trade, which, inevitably, has had a notable impact on their genetic heritage :
quote:We have analyzed and compared mitochondrial DNA variation of populations from the Near East and Africa and found a very high frequency of African lineages present in the Yemen Hadramawt: more than a third were of clear sub-Saharan origin. Other Arab populations carried ∼10% lineages of sub-Saharan origin, whereas non-Arab Near Eastern populations, by contrast, carried few or no such lineages, suggesting that gene flow has been preferentially into Arab populations. Several lines of evidence suggest that most of this gene flow probably occurred within the past ∼2,500 years. In contrast, there is little evidence for male-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa in Ychromosome haplotypes in Arab populations, including the Hadramawt. Taken together, these results are consistent with substantial migration from eastern Africa into Arabia, at least in part as a result of the Arab slave trade, and mainly female assimilation into the Arabian population as a result of miscegenation and manumission.
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To the best of my knowledge,none of the Africans brought to Arabia were Ethiopian or Somali type east Africans but Nilote and I think some Bantu speakers.
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Another extract echoing the other posted by the OP:
HGP-030 Echoes from the last Green Sahara: a ghost population of cattle herders unveiled from joint whole modern genome analysis of Sahelian Fulani and ancient African individuals.
quote: The Sahelian Fulani are the largest nomadic pastoral ethnic group. Their origins are still largely unknown and their Eurasian genetic component is usually explained by recent admixture events with northern African groups. However, it has also been proposed that Fulani may be the descendants of ancient groups settled in the Sahara during its last Green phase (12000-5000 BP), as also suggested by Y chromosome results.We produced 23 high-coverage (30 ×) whole genome sequences from Fulani individuals from 8 Sahelian countries, plus 17 samples from other African groups and 3 Europeans as controls, for a total of 44 new whole genome sequences. These data have been compared with published whole genomes from relevant populations, for a total of 814 samples. This modern dataset has been then analyzed together with relevant published ancient individuals (for a total of > 1800 ancient and modern samples). These analyses showed that the non-sub-Saharan genetic ancestry component of Fulani cannot be only explained by recent admixture events, but it is more ancient than previously reported and probably traces its origin to the last Green Sahara. According to our results, Fulani may be the descendants of Saharan cattle herders settled in that area during the last Green Sahara. The exact ancestry composition of such ghost Saharan population(s) cannot be completely unveiled from modern genomes only, but the joint analysis with the available African ancient samples suggested a similarity between ancient Saharans and Late Neolithic Moroccans.
ElMeastro, how long you reckon until they fully release these, like if you had to take a guess? (especially the Takarkori study)
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Another extract echoing the other posted by the OP:
HGP-030 Echoes from the last Green Sahara: a ghost population of cattle herders unveiled from joint whole modern genome analysis of Sahelian Fulani and ancient African individuals.
quote: The Sahelian Fulani are the largest nomadic pastoral ethnic group. Their origins are still largely unknown and their Eurasian genetic component is usually explained by recent admixture events with northern African groups. However, it has also been proposed that Fulani may be the descendants of ancient groups settled in the Sahara during its last Green phase (12000-5000 BP), as also suggested by Y chromosome results.We produced 23 high-coverage (30 ×) whole genome sequences from Fulani individuals from 8 Sahelian countries, plus 17 samples from other African groups and 3 Europeans as controls, for a total of 44 new whole genome sequences. These data have been compared with published whole genomes from relevant populations, for a total of 814 samples. This modern dataset has been then analyzed together with relevant published ancient individuals (for a total of > 1800 ancient and modern samples). These analyses showed that the non-sub-Saharan genetic ancestry component of Fulani cannot be only explained by recent admixture events, but it is more ancient than previously reported and probably traces its origin to the last Green Sahara. According to our results, Fulani may be the descendants of Saharan cattle herders settled in that area during the last Green Sahara. The exact ancestry composition of such ghost Saharan population(s) cannot be completely unveiled from modern genomes only, but the joint analysis with the available African ancient samples suggested a similarity between ancient Saharans and Late Neolithic Moroccans.
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This study will either be kept behind a pay wall or barely even be discussed. The Soqotri are already an enigma to the Eurasianist Biodiversity scholar considering they have the highest percent of J1 or all Arabs. As long as its not trying to Eurasianize A. Egyptians or North Africans no one will care outside a few independent researchers like you and Beyoku.
quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: They'll just say these people are SSA mixed slave descendants and clutch pearls and whine about Afrocentrism..if you suggest these people are authentic Yemeni Arabs.
Yeah, it's hard to take a lot of comments regarding genetic affinity serious now knowing the implicit nature of many poster's sentiments. Just as you and Bandon called out before. Some people try to use these studies to assert or reinstate characteristics outside of it's bounds. The biggest characteristic resides within lookership. Other ones include cultural implications such as the diffusion of subsistent strategies and anachronistic and spatially infeasible ancestry modeling. Examples are agro-pastoralism in Africa, and Anatolian farmers being a better fit than ancient Sardinians and southern iberians for North African proximate EEF ancestry respectively. We have modern day research, professional and casual, casting a shadow of confusion on decades if not a century of archaeology and multidisciplinary attempts.
Now watch how the morphologically Negroid Takarkori samples who seems to not have Eurasian ancestry (at least not shared with other Sub-Saharan Africans) will be spun post autosomal sequencing. Somehow someway they'll be Eurasianized because of the implications of Mt.DNA M and N and contemporaneous and later pocket populations particularly those of the Nile valley.
But the Soqotra study might go crazy, cuz if modern Soqotri can be better modeled with Post Natufian Levantine ancestry than those samples at Hadramawt then I honesty can't predict how people will spin that.
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Im not sure about Arabia but Ethiopians were def. targets of the Eastern Slave trade, as discussed before with folks like Malik Ambar and other Hebeshi Slave descendants who became Elites in India..
quote:Originally posted by Thereal: To the best of my knowledge,none of the Africans brought to Arabia were Ethiopian or Somali type east Africans but Nilote and I think some Bantu speakers.
Posts: 8867 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Wonder if there will be any debate about the Egyptian studies when they finally are published? I remember that the Abusir paper from 2017 caused quite a stir.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2961 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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How long do you guys reckon until the 3 studies release?
A few weeks, a few months, a few years, next year? What's usually the timeframe between the abstract leaking/coming out and the full paper releasing?
Posts: 76 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Mar 2023
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Depends on the study. I don't want to make the claim that certain studies with certain implications get stuck in prerelease or preprint, but I'll say there have been some papers with interesting abstracts that just remain abstract.
The Socotri study might see the light of day if not a fully published APA paper there will be leaks, extended abstracts or a single page report soon. The lead scientist is quite forward when in comes to data availability and if anything she might send a report privately upon request.
It should already be in peer review. The writing is on the wall.
The Takarkori paper... I really don't know. I just hope it actually get's released in my lifetime.
Posts: 1811 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: The Takarkori paper... I really don't know. I just hope it actually get's released in my lifetime.
Yeah this is actually the one I'm mostly interested in...even more than the Ancient Egyptian one believe it or not.
Funny how there were no issues in releasing the previous Takarkori study. (The one that showed them possessing Basal N*)
Posts: 76 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Mar 2023
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The results of the Ancient Egyptian samples have been revealed, and unsurprisingly, it's not good news for Afrocentrists and other proponents of a "black Egypt" :
Their SSA is even lower than modern egyptians and the irony is that they're very similar to modern arabs. I wonder what kind of new excuse will members here bring.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Antalas: The results of the Ancient Egyptian samples have been revealed, and unsurprisingly, it's not good news for Afrocentrists and other proponents of a "black Egypt" :
Their SSA is even lower than modern egyptians and the irony is that they're very similar to modern arabs. I wonder what kind of new excuse will members here bring.
Those samples are very likely not representative of OK upper Egyptians its simply not congruent with currently available anthropology and archaeology. I'm in that discord server and there was talks of some samples being 90%+ Natufian with the rest being ANF, a profile like that is a lot more realistic IMO than OK Upper Egyptians being on average more Iranian/CHG than BA Levantines.
Posts: 169 | From: England | Registered: May 2020
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: Those samples are very likely not representative of OK upper Egyptians its simply not congruent with currently available anthropology and archaeology. I'm in that discord server and there was talks of some samples being 90%+ Natufian with the rest being ANF, a profile like that is a lot more realistic IMO than OK Upper Egyptians being on average more Iranian/CHG than BA Levantines.
I'm not even sure the samples in that chart (which is very obviously someone's amateur run rather than from an actual paper, BTW) are from the upcoming study mentioned in the OP, honestly.
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: Those samples are very likely not representative of OK upper Egyptians its simply not congruent with currently available anthropology and archaeology. I'm in that discord server and there was talks of some samples being 90%+ Natufian with the rest being ANF, a profile like that is a lot more realistic IMO than OK Upper Egyptians being on average more Iranian/CHG than BA Levantines.
I'm not even sure the samples in that chart (which is very obviously someone's amateur run rather than from an actual paper, BTW) are from the upcoming study mentioned in the OP, honestly.
I'm in the server and they claim its legit, I've spoken to the user who initially leaked them and I doubt he'd purposefully spread misinformation but he could have easily been fed bad info so who knows.
Posts: 169 | From: England | Registered: May 2020
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: I'm in the server and they claim its legit, I've spoken to the user who initially leaked them and I doubt he'd purposefully spread misinformation but he could have easily been fed bad info so who knows.
I didn't mean to claim that those results were necessarily fake, but they look to me like they could be different samples from the one used in the OP study.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: The results of the Ancient Egyptian samples have been revealed, and unsurprisingly, it's not good news for Afrocentrists and other proponents of a "black Egypt" :
Their SSA is even lower than modern egyptians and the irony is that they're very similar to modern arabs...
It seems indeed ironic.
In my opinion, the leak suggests that the ancestors of both Egyptians and Arabs originated from similar prehistoric populations. Due to their shared prehistoric ancient ancestors and because they both have a high proportion of Natufian or Natufian like-ancestry these ancient Egyptian samples appear to be genetically closest to Arabs. That does not, however, imply that Arabs are the offspring or direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians or that they share their culture or have any connection to their civilization.
In fact, the Ancient Egyptians, who spoke a Hamitic language, distinguished themselves from the Semites and Asiatics, to whom Arabs belong.
Posts: 102 | From: private | Registered: Jul 2021
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: I'm in the server and they claim its legit, I've spoken to the user who initially leaked them and I doubt he'd purposefully spread misinformation but he could have easily been fed bad info so who knows.
I didn't mean to claim that those results were necessarily fake, but they look to me like they could be different samples from the one used in the OP study.
Ahh, well he claims they are the ones in the study. I have no way of verifying his claims so theres not really much I can say on that.
Posts: 169 | From: England | Registered: May 2020
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Interesting that (in this analysis) Iberomaurusian ancestry does not show variation (does not really seem to go up to >5%) as more Egyptian samples are posted. This shows the great modularity/compartmentalization of African ancestry components as late as the Bronze Age, where even 'nearby' N. African samples can share one component (Natufian-like), but not much else to the point where Egyptians are connected to Iberomaurusians with Natufian-like and disconnected from Iberomaurusians in terms of the rest of their ancestry. Takarkori genomes seem to say the same thing ("a previously unknown lineage" that has "remained isolated for most of its existence" yet the population was "most closely related to Taforalt").
I also alluded to this (ie modularity linking otherwise very different populations), here and here .
Posts: 8840 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
If hes banned invite him to ES...? Post them here
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim:
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: Those samples are very likely not representative of OK upper Egyptians its simply not congruent with currently available anthropology and archaeology. I'm in that discord server and there was talks of some samples being 90%+ Natufian with the rest being ANF, a profile like that is a lot more realistic IMO than OK Upper Egyptians being on average more Iranian/CHG than BA Levantines.
I'm not even sure the samples in that chart (which is very obviously someone's amateur run rather than from an actual paper, BTW) are from the upcoming study mentioned in the OP, honestly.
I'm in the server and they claim its legit, I've spoken to the user who initially leaked them and I doubt he'd purposefully spread misinformation but he could have easily been fed bad info so who knows.
Posts: 8867 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: If hes banned invite him to ES...? Post them here
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim:
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: Those samples are very likely not representative of OK upper Egyptians its simply not congruent with currently available anthropology and archaeology. I'm in that discord server and there was talks of some samples being 90%+ Natufian with the rest being ANF, a profile like that is a lot more realistic IMO than OK Upper Egyptians being on average more Iranian/CHG than BA Levantines.
I'm not even sure the samples in that chart (which is very obviously someone's amateur run rather than from an actual paper, BTW) are from the upcoming study mentioned in the OP, honestly.
I'm in the server and they claim its legit, I've spoken to the user who initially leaked them and I doubt he'd purposefully spread misinformation but he could have easily been fed bad info so who knows.
He isn't banned and he probably wouldn't join this forum either way, Egyptsearch doesn't have the best reputation in the anthrosphere, its viewed as a hotep hotspot, nothing more.
Posts: 169 | From: England | Registered: May 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Interesting that (in this analysis) Iberomaurusian ancestry does not show variation (does not really seem to go up to >5%) as more Egyptian samples are posted. This shows the great modularity/compartmentalization of African ancestry components as late as the Bronze Age, where even 'nearby' N. African samples can share one component (Natufian-like), but not much else to the point where Egyptians are connected to Iberomaurusians with Natufian-like and disconnected from Iberomaurusians in terms of the rest of their ancestry. Takarkori genomes seem to say the same thing ("a previously unknown lineage" that has "remained isolated for most of its existence" yet the population was "most closely related to Taforalt").
I also alluded to this (ie modularity linking otherwise very different populations), here.
Modularity simply the result of recombination. The more ubiquitous nature of NEA ancestry in downstream samples. Simply, the natural result of when the control groups carry partial or related ancestry. I think about the closeness between Yoruba and Natufians when compared to Taforalt for example. (fst)
Posts: 1811 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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Aint no one posting here to be a hotspot for anything, hell the most active user is a Swede who posts right wing Anti-Hotep stuff anyway. But I got you, I see what you are saying..
Posts: 8867 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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I wonder what everyone makes of the significant Iran/CHG-like ancestry. There simply isn't enough in the Levant at the time to be explained via Levantine migrants, it has to be Mesopotamia and/or Caucasus-linked.
Also how will these results be reconciled with the Kenyan/Tanzanian pastoralist DNA in which there MENA DNA was essentially purely Natufian-like, probably reflecting a local Egyptian + Neolithic Levantine/Anatolian profile but based on these results Old Kingdom Upper Egyptians had 20%+ Iranian/CHG ancestry which somehow completely missed Lower Nubia given the lack of such ancestry in the East African pastoralists aswell as modern Afro-Asiatic speakers from the Horn.
Posts: 169 | From: England | Registered: May 2020
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: I wonder what everyone makes of the significant Iran/CHG-like ancestry. There simply isn't enough in the Levant at the time to be explained via Levantine migrants, it has to be Mesopotamia and/or Caucasus-linked.
Also how will these results be reconciled with the Kenyan/Tanzanian pastoralist DNA in which there MENA DNA was essentially purely Natufian-like, probably reflecting a local Egyptian + Neolithic Levantine/Anatolian profile but based on these results Old Kingdom Upper Egyptians had 20%+ Iranian/CHG ancestry which somehow completely missed Lower Nubia given the lack of such ancestry in the East African pastoralists aswell as modern Afro-Asiatic speakers from the Horn.
I do find that rather weird, honestly. Especially if it's higher than what was in the Levant at the time.
posted
^^^Yeah did'nt we disguss this earlier where Beyoku posted a chart and wanted posters to explain it, where CHG was virtually absent in a Eurasian NA sample...
Posts: 8867 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: Those samples are very likely not representative of OK upper Egyptians its simply not congruent with currently available anthropology and archaeology.
I don't see much contradiction with the bioanthro papers I've read and can you be more precise about archaeology ? Seems like those samples are never enough nor representative...Smh
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: I'm in that discord server and there was talks of some samples being 90%+ Natufian with the rest being ANF, a profile like that is a lot more realistic IMO than OK Upper Egyptians being on average more Iranian/CHG than BA Levantines.
Which BA levantines ? The samples I run have more than those OK egyptians.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by mightywolf: It seems indeed ironic.
In my opinion, the leak suggests that the ancestors of both Egyptians and Arabs originated from similar prehistoric populations. Due to their shared prehistoric ancient ancestors and because they both have a high proportion of Natufian or Natufian like-ancestry these ancient Egyptian samples appear to be genetically closest to Arabs. That does not, however, imply that Arabs are the offspring or direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians or that they share their culture or have any connection to their civilization.
In fact, the Ancient Egyptians, who spoke a Hamitic language, distinguished themselves from the Semites and Asiatics, to whom Arabs belong.
I didn't imply anything about Arabs. I simply highlighted the irony, as some individuals with Afrocentric views often assert that Egyptians are "Arab invaders". Regrettably, I've also observed some tension on social media between Egyptians and Saudis. The latter were mocking the former because the Abusir samples were more genetically similar to Arabs. So the situation may escalate further with these new samples lol
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Interesting that (in this analysis) Iberomaurusian ancestry does not show variation (does not really seem to go up to >5%) as more Egyptian samples are posted. This shows the great modularity/compartmentalization of African ancestry components as late as the Bronze Age, where even 'nearby' N. African samples can share one component (Natufian-like), but not much else to the point where Egyptians are connected to Iberomaurusians with Natufian-like and disconnected from Iberomaurusians in terms of the rest of their ancestry. Takarkori genomes seem to say the same thing ("a previously unknown lineage" that has "remained isolated for most of its existence" yet the population was "most closely related to Taforalt").
I also alluded to this (ie modularity linking otherwise very different populations), here.
Modularity simply the result of recombination. The more ubiquitous nature of NEA ancestry in downstream samples. Simply, the natural result of when the control groups carry partial or related ancestry. I think about the closeness between Yoruba and Natufians when compared to Taforalt for example. (fst)
Modularity as I used it here, was to point out this situation where samples are pulled together based on one component, while being pulled apart by other components that have huge genetic distance, and which are found in their own respective regions. So you get an impression of a lot of local and highly differentiated ghost populations all over the landscape and in close proximity, being pulled together by the spread of one component (in this case, Natufian-like). Although modularity in general means a system (like lego) where components can be arranged and put together in different ways to make something larger.
Posts: 8840 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: I wonder what everyone makes of the significant Iran/CHG-like ancestry. There simply isn't enough in the Levant at the time to be explained via Levantine migrants, it has to be Mesopotamia and/or Caucasus-linked.
The Dynastic Race Theory that is today dismissed by Egyptologists suggests that the presence of many Mesopotamian influences in Egypt during the late predynastic period and the apparently foreign graves in the Naqada II burials indicated an invasion of Mesopotamians into Upper Egypt. It was further argued that the Mesopotamians then conquered both Upper and Lower Egypt and founded the First Dynasty. However, that Egyptian civilization was indigenous is a consensus, and the first pharaohs of the dynastic period in Egypt appear to have hailed from upper Egypt. With that being said, although Dynastic Race Theory is probably flawed, Petrie's archeological and anthropological evidence does support a foreign invasion. We should also keep in mind not to throw the baby in the bathwater and completely disregard the works of scholars and historians from the past. Even if some scholars were biased or had a racist tendency that clouded their suggestions, that doesn't mean that their entire work and discovery are by default wrong and useless and don't contain some valuable information. You just have to critically examine their works and be aware of bias and ideological influences of the authors.
From Wiki:
quote:
The dynastic race theory was the earliest thesis to attempt to explain how predynastic Egypt developed into the sophisticated monarchy of Dynastic Egypt. The theory holds that the earliest roots of the ancient Egyptian dynastic civilisation were imported by invaders from Mesopotamia who then founded the First Dynasty and brought culture to the indigenous population. This theory had strong supporters in the Egyptological community in the first half of the 20th century, but has since lost mainstream support.
Origins In the early 20th century, Egyptologist Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie deduced that skeletal remains found at pre-dynastic sites at Naqada (Upper Egypt) indicated the presence of two different races, with the Dynastic Race, also referred to as the "Followers of Horus",[6] differentiated physically by a noticeably larger skeletal structure and cranial capacity.[7] Petrie concluded that the physical differences of the remains[/B] in conjunction with the previously unknown burial styles, uncharacteristic tomb architecture, and abundance of foreign artifacts, implied this race must have been an invading ruling elite that was responsible for the seemingly sudden rise of Egyptian civilization. Based on plentiful cultural evidence, Petrie determined that the invader race had come from Mesopotamia, and imposed themselves on the native Badarian culture to become their rulers. Petrie adduced new architectural styles—the distinctly Mesopotamian "niched-facade" architecture—pottery styles, cylinder seals and a few artworks, as well as numerous Predynastic rock and tomb paintings depicting Mesopotamian style boats, symbols, and figures.
This came to be called the "dynastic race theory"[8][9] The theory further argued that the Mesopotamians then conquered both Upper and Lower Egypt and founded the First Dynasty. Predynastic and First Dynasty burial sites similar to Naqada were also found at Abydos, Sakkara, and Hieraconpolis.[6]
Versions of the Dynastic race model were adopted by scholars as L. A. Waddell,[10] and Walter Bryan Emery, a former Chair of Egyptology at University College London. In the early 20th century, Egyptologist Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie deduced that skeletal remains found at pre-dynastic sites at Naqada (Upper Egypt) indicated the presence of two different races, with the Dynastic Race, also referred to as the "Followers of Horus",[6] differentiated physically by a noticeably larger skeletal structure and cranial capacity.[7] Petrie concluded that the physical differences of the remains in conjunction with the previously unknown burial styles, uncharacteristic tomb architecture, and abundance of foreign artifacts, implied this race must have been an invading ruling elite that was responsible for the seemingly sudden rise of Egyptian civilization. Based on plentiful cultural evidence, Petrie determined that the invader race had come from Mesopotamia, and imposed themselves on the native Badarian culture to become their rulers. Petrie adduced new architectural styles—the distinctly Mesopotamian "niched-facade" architecture—pottery styles, cylinder seals and a few artworks, as well as numerous Predynastic rock and tomb paintings depicting Mesopotamian style boats, symbols, and figures.
This came to be called the "dynastic race theory"The theory further argued that the Mesopotamians then conquered both Upper and Lower Egypt and founded the First Dynasty. Predynastic and First Dynasty burial sites similar to Naqada were also found at Abydos, Sakkara, and Hieraconpolis.[6]
Versions of the Dynastic race model were adopted by scholars as L. A. Waddell,[10] and Walter Bryan Emery, a former Chair of Egyptology at University College London....
[/B] Decline The dynastic race theory is no longer an accepted thesis in the field of predynastic archaeology. While there is clear evidence the Naqada II culture borrowed abundantly from Mesopotamia, the most commonly held view today is that the achievements of the First Dynasty were the result of a long period of cultural and political development. Such borrowings are much older than the Naqada II period, the Naqada II period had a large degree of continuity with the Naqada I period,and the changes which did happen during the Naqada periods happened over significant amounts of time.
[B]Modern Egyptology largely maintains the view that "state formation occurred as a mainly indigenous process", although significant differences in morphology indicated migration along the Nile Valley also took place. The Dynastic Race theory has been largely replaced by the theory Egypt was a hydraulic empire.Posts: 102 | From: private | Registered: Jul 2021
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quote:Originally posted by mightywolf: It seems indeed ironic.
In my opinion, the leak suggests that the ancestors of both Egyptians and Arabs originated from similar prehistoric populations. Due to their shared prehistoric ancient ancestors and because they both have a high proportion of Natufian or Natufian like-ancestry these ancient Egyptian samples appear to be genetically closest to Arabs. That does not, however, imply that Arabs are the offspring or direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians or that they share their culture or have any connection to their civilization.
In fact, the Ancient Egyptians, who spoke a Hamitic language, distinguished themselves from the Semites and Asiatics, to whom Arabs belong.
I didn't imply anything about Arabs. I simply highlighted the irony, as some individuals with Afrocentric views often assert that Egyptians are "Arab invaders". Regrettably, I've also observed some tension on social media between Egyptians and Saudis. The latter were mocking the former because the Abusir samples were more genetically similar to Arabs. So the situation may escalate further with these new samples lol
I know. That's why I wanted to make it clear that Arabs cannot claim ancient Egypt as such. Long before DNA, not only Afrocentrists, but some Arab supremacists claimed that Arabs founded and created the Ancient Egyptian civilization. Aside from that, another insane internet war is raging between J1 and E1b1b1-obsessed Arabs. Both fight for the ultimate Arab hg. LOL
J1 Arabs used to look down on E1b1b Arabs and to consider them the lesser Arab, but E1b1b1 Arabs are becoming more confident.
Anway, I can't wait for the Egyptian papers to be published since the comments, topics and rebuttals in the anthrofora will be fire. It got a bit boring the last few years; there were too many papers on Indo-European and Neo-European farmers and not many on other ancient people.
Posts: 102 | From: private | Registered: Jul 2021
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Several anthropologists have warned us about taking one or two samples and creating broad narratives and conclusions.
I personally would like to see a genomic study of at least 20-30 samples specifically spanning Pre-Dynastic to Early-Dynastic. Before any firm conclusions are made.
Posts: 76 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Mar 2023
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