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Moslems keep tellin me that Jesus was not crucified, so all the millions of people who think they have been saved, have not been saved !
To know if something happened or not, someone would have to witness it. To not be there as a witness cannot be an argument that it didnt happen. Charlie
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The most important thing in the Bible, and the most important thing Not in the Koran, and nobody dares to put on a post for Saint Charlie ????
Posts: 707 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: The most important thing in the Bible, and the most important thing Not in the Koran, and nobody dares to put on a post for Saint Charlie ????
Correction
It's the Holy Quran that said "Jesus has not been crucified not Moslems. It do exist in the Quran.
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Dear Charlie,here is the replay..in the Quran "Jesus has not been crucified"as Sin_inn said GOD raised his soul befor suffering 3 days as i read here..and appear to the public that he is..(shobeh lahom).. As i said befor as god who created the universe made the fire that burn peace and cold for sayedna Abraham and the knife that cut soft for sayedna ismaiel..i don't know if that exist i the bible that jesus talk while he was just a baby born ..so GOD POWER IS unlimited ..if the idea is suffering god could made his prophet burn or made him kill his son and suffer too..to protect his followers !!!!!!!!! then ..and as i said befor too as i read from christian here that in the bible the end is according to the person work..not just gift from god..so what was the idea that sayedna aiisa /jesus suffer..to carry the sin of his followers..he taught them and that was a suffer enought .M.
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I think this kind of discussion/debate is totally pointless when it takes place in cyber space. You either believe it or you don't. Find a reliable source.
Posts: 606 | From: London, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Farhana: I think this kind of discussion/debate is totally pointless when it takes place in cyber space. You either believe it or you don't. Find a reliable source.
posted
It is as interesting for a Moslem to discuss the Crucifixion as it is for a Christian to get pages of the Koran flicked at him. Of course, the Koran is not a reliable source for the Crucifixion story, whereas the Bible is. St. Charlie
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quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: To know if something happened or not, someone would have to witness it. To not be there as a witness cannot be an argument that it didnt happen. Charlie
What do you want to know, Charlie? It did happen. There were many witnesses. They wrote about it. Christ appeared several times to his followers after the resurrection, showed them the nail wounds in his hands and feet and asked Thomas to touch the wounds so that he would believe. It's all in the Bible.
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Hello Nilewatcher, Whilst I have every respect for your understanding of the Bible, it is nevertheless from a very limited perspective since you believe everything in the literal sense.
If you were to pursue your knowledge to the next stage of Christian growth you would learn tht Jesus symbolized the Daemon (the immortal self), and Jesus' twin brother (sometimes referred to as Didymous which is exactly the same name in Greek as Thomas) is in fact Thomas which represents the eidolon or Jesus' "other self"
If you were to look in The Book of Thomas the Contender, Jesus says to Thomas (in other words to himself):
'Brother Thomas, while you have time in the world, listen to me, and I will reveal to you the things you have pondered in your mind. Now since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion, examine yoursel and learn who you are, in what way you exist, and how you will come to be. Since you will be called my brother, it is not fitting that you be ignorant of yourself. And I know that you have understood, because you have already understood that I am the knowledge of the truth. So while you accompany me, although you are uncomprehending, you have in fact already come to know, and you will be called "the one who knows himself."
The Gospel this was taken from was written by Didymos Judas Thomas. DidymosGrk and Thomas (Aramaic) both mean twin, and then of course there is the other story about the betrayal by Judas, which is another allegory for another time. Saint Charlie
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In addition I can say that I was not there at the crucifixion, but it is as if I were, as I have experienced it. The following is an extract taken from the Hymn of Jesus and the Mystery of the Cross taken from the Acts of John. This is a secret Gospel that the ordinary Christians are not allowed to see:
Jesus speaks thus:
"This cross, then is that which joined all things unto itself by a Word, and separate off the things that are from those that are below, and then also, being one, streamed forth into all things, making all into one. But this is not the cross of wood which thou wilt see when thou goest down hence; neither am I he that is on the cross, whom now thou seest not, but only hearest a voice. I was reckoned to be that which I am not, not being what I was unto many others; but they will call me something else which is vile and not worthy of me. As then the place of rest is neither seen nor spoken of, muich more shall I the Lord thereof, be neither seen nor spoken of. " When he had spoken unto me these things, and others which I know not how to say as he would have me, he was taken up, no one of the multitudes having beheld him, and when I went down I laughjed them all to scorn, inasmuch as he had told me the things which they have said concerning him; holding fast this one thing in myself, that the LORD CONTRIVED ALL THINGS SYMBOLICALLY AND BY A DISPENSATION TOWARD MEN, FOR THEIR CONVERSION AND SALVATION.
Therefore, Nilewatcher, it was all a conivance, which is why the Roman Catholics would not let this into the Canon. It only happened SYMBOLICALLY, and not historically as you are trying to prove to me. Charlie.
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Well, Charlie, you know those books you are quoting are not Christian books and what you are saying are not Christian beliefs but your own. And as I said, that is between you and God. But I am concerned about your salvation and sincerely hope that you reconsider.
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Well, Charlie, you know those books you are quoting are not Christian books and what you are saying are not Christian beliefs but your own. And as I said, that is between you and God. But I am concerned about your salvation and sincerely hope that you reconsider.
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You mean that they were not included in the Canon of the Roman Catholic Church. There were Christians abounding all over the place before they came into existance with their authority and Dogma. That did not happen until 4OO years after Christ. Before that time, these "Christian" documents were held in great esteem. The Roman Catholic church wanted to try and prove that Jesus lived on the earth as a man. In their attempt to do this, they had to rewrite many parts of the Gospels, they even managed to put things into the History of Josephus Flavius concerning. Jesus. Yet Josephus was a Jew, and anti Christian and didnt believe in a Messiah figure. They are all forged entries probably made by Iraeneus and assisted by Bishop Eusebius. Was Thomas not an apostle of Jesus, then, and what about Peter and what about the Gospel of Jesus himself? The reason they were not included in the Canon is not because their were not Christian, but they didnt suit the "new" type of Christian Dogma inititated by the Bishops when they were sucking up around Constantine.
As for my salvation, you need not worry about that one little bit. It is your own salvation you ought to look to for as I have said many times, those who do not resurrect in this life will never do so in the next. Now, you will know for sure whether you have, or have not, "resurected". If you are not sure, then you havent. This means you have missed out somewhere. Charlie the Saint.
quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com:
As for my salvation, you need not worry about that one little bit. It is your own salvation you ought to look to for as I have said many times, those who do not resurrect in this life will never do so in the next. Now, you will know for sure whether you have, or have not, "resurected". If you are not sure, then you havent. This means you have missed out somewhere. Charlie the Saint.
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Hello Nilewatcher, I suppose you could say that I am the type of Christian who would have lived before the Dogma era when everything was changed to suit political forces engendered by Constantine. The Catholic destroyed hundreds and thousands of genuine godly people not to mention the destruction of temples, holy books and so on. They even took over the Temple of Mithras in Rome, killed everyone and then opened it up as the Vatican.! Some Christians ay?
I have no time for that type of Christianity nor their re-written dogma.
Despite the efforts of the church to irradicate the true Christians during the first four centuries, the Faith has survived and is in the world today. Charlie
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