How am I regarded, as a Western woman, by Muslims (men and women) when I go to Egypt wearing loose-fitting attire, long sleeves/pants/skirts, basically covered from the neck down? Is there less respect for me?

Men thought it acceptable to approach me to ask if I am single, and I got the impression they thought I would be interested in sex. I think that might have been partly due to the fact that I was travelling with a female companion and without a male, therefore they may have thought that I was quite uninhibited, despite my conservative dress. I am unsure whether they would approach a woman wearing the hijab the same way?

Although having said that, many of the men that did approach showed a good sense of humour about things and meant no harm, however a few came across as quite menacing.

But then again, I went as a tourist…I’m not sure about whether this makes a difference if you are living there? I still had a good trip, but I felt very restricted to move about as I normally would due to the male attention.

From what I have noticed over the last few years here, there seems to be two opposite trends among young women, one group of women seem to be getting less conservative in their dress and wearing tighter and more revealing clothes, I don’t remember seeing stomachs, thighs, or armpits when I first came here; and the other group is starting not only to move to wearing a headscarf over anything from tight figure hugging clothes to looser clothes and abayas (coats), but also more women are starting to wear all black clothing with a niqab (face veil). And both of these trends are happening at the same time.

I'm a Westerner living out here, married with a baby, wearing hijab, and I still get comments, looks etc.

I think to be honest, probably more people stare now I wear hijab than before - before I just looked like a tourist, but more modestly dressed - now to them I look like a tourist wearing hijab. There have been times I have gone out in niqab, to avoid all of this. Now I'm kind of sitting on the fence between hijab & niqab, trying to decide which is best for me.

I hate these words, these kisses, this way we are looked at...I find it disgusting.
As for being stared at though, we should remember Egyptians in our respective countries are stared at too. I mean, as long as our color differs, people always look at you as a stranger, no matter how long you've been living in the country. It's a bad habit I used to have too, but since I have been so stared at in Egypt, when I come back to my country, I really do my best to stop looking at people who look "different".

I haven't been home since I came to live out here, but I think (hope) that when I do go back to the UK for a holiday anytime, that I would have the courage (is that the right word?) to do the same as I do here. This is who I am now, so thats what people have to accept. My family aren't really a problem - they don't really understand, but they accept my choices.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
please guys i want to add something very important. every egyptian woman i know and that includes me has complained from harrasment bitteryly. i can't remember walking around the street without having whistling, hissing and catcalling thrown at me. it has nothing to do with nationality. it also has nothing to do with the veil.

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Interesting. After I posted that, I was thinking, "well it's not like *American* men *here* don't say inappropriate stuff! Because they do! Usually lower-class kind of men. But I've had it happen at work, too. I give them a real dressing down and they shut up.

I suppose the issue is I know how to handle it here. I know I'm generally respected here. I don't know how I'll be viewed/treated in Egypt. But I'm an attorney for goodness' sake! How conservative in dress can you get?? :-)

Thank you all for your observations, though. Even with the bad points, it still makes me like Egypt more. :-)

you are 100% correct in what you say. I thought that sometimes people were rude to me because I was a foreigner etc, but obviously not!

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Originally posted by newcomer:
Assalamu alaykum 7aya!

It seems to work both ways, some Muslimahs who wear hijab try to persuade others to wear it too and those who don’t try to dissuade others. When I first started wearing it there were several women who tried to stop me telling me that it wasn’t necessary, I should wait until after marriage, all my hair would fall out!, it doesn’t look nice/modern, you will never find a good job, etc. etc. and you don’t like niqab so you are trying to dissuade Eman. But it seemed a bit strange that you used the argument of niqab not being fard, so she doesn’t have to, and although you admit that hijab is fard you choose not to!

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
I was just wondering how many women hear wear hijab? And what do you think of women who don't?

How am I regarded, as a Western woman, by Muslims (men and women) when I go to Egypt wearing loose-fitting attire, long sleeves/pants/skirts, basically covered from the neck down? Is there less respect for me?

Just curious.....

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First of all, It's very refreshing to see people asking about what's apropriate when visiting another country which speak of how much respect you have for others. Much of the misunderstanding Egyptians have about others would vanish if many people followed the same approach.

There are two kind of staring, that which is normal in every country due to differnces and the other which happen mostly by the young Egyptian men to pretty girls or the ones wearing tight or revealing clothes, You can rest your mind and consider them some animals (as most do), but if you're into understanding things then knowing that most of them are un employed, can't afford marriage and at the same time try not to commit a major sin like fornication puts them in a big dillema between their natural desires and culture or religion. Things would have been exactly the same in the west if it was as difficult as here for men to make relationships.Sometimes it's one of the ways to make a relationship as some girls sometimes do respond positivly to that kind of staring. Another point to keep in mind is that Egyptians understand that westerners are more opned to others than Egyptian women and while this could be true, still most confuse being opned to others with having no limits in this openess.Also Egyptians like to talk to forigners out of curiosity.

The way you dress will ave you much troubles, and if you are in the process of buying clothes specially for this visit you ma consider saving most of the shopping untill you come here and then you will know what exactly you want and I guess things here might be cheaper and also nice.

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Originally posted by Troubles101:

First of all, It's very refreshing to see people asking about what's apropriate when visiting another country which speak of how much respect you have for others. Much of the misunderstanding Egyptians have about others would vanish if many people followed the same approach.

There are two kind of staring, that which is normal in every country due to differnces and the other which happen mostly by the young Egyptian men to pretty girls or the ones wearing tight or revealing clothes, You can rest your mind and consider them some animals (as most do), but if you're into understanding things then knowing that most of them are un employed, can't afford marriage and at the same time try not to commit a major sin like fornication puts them in a big dillema between their natural desires and culture or religion. Things would have been exactly the same in the west if it was as difficult as here for men to make relationships.Sometimes it's one of the ways to make a relationship as some girls sometimes do respond positivly to that kind of staring. Another point to keep in mind is that Egyptians understand that westerners are more opned to others than Egyptian women and while this could be true, still most confuse being opned to others with having no limits in this openess.Also Egyptians like to talk to forigners out of curiosity.

The way you dress will ave you much troubles, and if you are in the process of buying clothes specially for this visit you ma consider saving most of the shopping untill you come here and then you will know what exactly you want and I guess things here might be cheaper and also nice.

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Thank you for your kind words, Troubles. I actually was in Egypt for a few weeks in June, and this is how I dressed. I *agonized* over what to wear, to attempt to respect the culture and to stay true to myself. So I ended up just wearing baggy clothes that I already had. I'm 38. It's not I like a dress like a teeny bopper anyway with belly button on full view.
:-) I personally feel uncomfortable when I see teenage girls here in the US with it all hanging out. I wouldn't want to make others uncomfortable like that. And I *did* find it weird to see European tourists at the pyramids and stuff wearing short shorts and little camisoles. Even though that's normal here too for younger women, it felt very out of context there.

I guess I am more concerned if I live there, that my appearance and my behavior don't cause any disrespect for my fiance and his family.

But you are right. Staring just because someone is different is natural. Where I live, 60% of the population is black, so I don't think anything of seeing an African American. When I was in Egypt, I think I only saw one person who looked of sub-saharan African ancestry and I caught myself staring at him, too, because he seemed so unusual for Cairo.

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Originally posted by 7aya:
well newcomer i told her not to wear the niqab because i think it is very dangerous and causes way too many problems.

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What's the difference between hijab and niqab? Is niqab the all-black veil with a face covering? Do you mean it's dangerous because the women have no peripheral vision? (That's what I was thinking when I saw them wearing it).

Thanks!

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Originally posted by Samia:
I often thought of wearing a niquab... just so men would think there was somebody stunningly beautiful inside!!!

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
What's the difference between hijab and niqab? Is niqab the all-black veil with a face covering? Do you mean it's dangerous because the women have no peripheral vision? (That's what I was thinking when I saw them wearing it).

Thanks!

well its dangerous in many ways. for one you don't know who is behind it, you can't see their face. this is often used by criminals to hide their faces. even male criminals use it. i mean honestly can you tell if this is a man or a woman? further, in my university we had only one girl wearing the nikab. the university administration forbid her to enter with it. because how can the security know if she really is that girl, and how can the proffesros know that she is the one who is sitting for the exam and not someone else hiding under the face veil.anyway that girl was so stubborn she ended up spending the entire day holding a paper on her face to hide it. oh my.
let me tell you a little story that hit the newspapers a couple of years ago. a couple are married and have a small baby. one day the woamn tells her husband that her best friend who wears the niqab had gotten divorced and is very lonely and she will be sleeping over at their house a couple days of the week. she told him that ofcourse she wouldnt be able to leave her best friend sleep in their spare room alone and she would spend the nights with her.
anyway the husband agrees and the lady starts sleeping over at their house with his wife joining her ofcourse. and everything is fine. until one day the husband comes home early and find the "lady" is actually a man who is in bed with his wife! this is why i say it dangerous.
i'm not saying that every woman who wears the niqab is hiding something. im saying the niqab often acts as a camfoulage for people with very bad intentions. and that IS dangerous.

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
What's the difference between hijab and niqab? Is niqab the all-black veil with a face covering? Do you mean it's dangerous because the women have no peripheral vision? (That's what I was thinking when I saw them wearing it).

Thanks!

well its dangerous in many ways. for one you don't know who is behind it, you can't see their face. this is often used by criminals to hide their faces. even male criminals use it. i mean honestly can you tell if this is a man or a woman? further, in my university we had only one girl wearing the nikab. the university administration forbid her to enter with it. because how can the security know if she really is that girl, and how can the proffesros know that she is the one who is sitting for the exam and not someone else hiding under the face veil.anyway that girl was so stubborn she ended up spending the entire day holding a paper on her face to hide it. oh my.
let me tell you a little story that hit the newspapers a couple of years ago. a couple are married and have a small baby. one day the woamn tells her husband that her best friend who wears the niqab had gotten divorced and is very lonely and she will be sleeping over at their house a couple days of the week. she told him that ofcourse she wouldnt be able to leave her best friend sleep in their spare room alone and she would spend the nights with her.
anyway the husband agrees and the lady starts sleeping over at their house with his wife joining her ofcourse. and everything is fine. until one day the husband comes home early and find the "lady" is actually a man who is in bed with his wife! this is why i say it dangerous.
i'm not saying that every woman who wears the niqab is hiding something. im saying the niqab often acts as a camfoulage for people with very bad intentions. and that IS dangerous.
newcomer sorry for my agressive answer!

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Originally posted by newcomer:
Thanks for that, I guess I hit a sensitive point! And I’m not going to get into a long argument about the pros and cons of niqab either, but just wanted to make a couple of points. In my pre-Islamic days we used to go out dancing to a club where there some cross-dressers used to go and there were many times these mini-skirted cross-dressers were approached by men who genuinely thought that they were women, even to the point of leaving with them. My point being that if someone wants to do something bad they will find a way to do it, they don't have to cover up to do it; it's not the fault of the niqab that it is being abused by some people.

Also if there was only one girl in the university who wore niqab, I would have thought it would be fairly easy for any half-decent professor to know their own student and if there was any danger of them being an imposter they could be checked by female security agents, as they are at airports. I have heard a lot of the arguments AUC give for this policy, but most of them don’t seem very strong to me.

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At my University we had a lady who would take the niqab girl to an office and look at her face.

I can understand someone rejecting Niqab for personal choice but portraaying girls who go with Khimar or Niqab in such a bad way is absurd. Hijabi women represent most of the girls of our societies and it's very possible to find good and bad between them however their bad is usually more magnified by people than the bad done by other girls as they usualy are expected to have the highest morals. Just like how bearded men face much bias and pressure and when one of them is being bad, it becomes an every day story and will usually be generalized.Needless to speak about how badly our Movies usually portray them.

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Originally posted by Samia:
I often thought of wearing a niquab... just so men would think there was somebody stunningly beautiful inside!!!

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The origins of the niqab come from Islam as there are Hadith that describe the early Muslims wearing them, although some people say that it was introduced later. Some scholars of Islam say it is obligatory, others that it is preferable, and others say it is not part of Islam. Until Hoda Sha’arawi took hers off in public at the beginning of the last century, I think it was, it was what all “decent” women in Egypt all used to wear. Nowadays it is more commonly seen in Saudi Arabia, but its use is spreading throughout the Muslim world and even among Muslim minorities in the West.

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Originally posted by Isis83:
Hi! Just curious in regards to this...
Is it part of Arab society to wear the niqab or is it part just Saudi society? I always thought the more you cover up the more curious men will become to find out what's under it all (not that showing everything is better)!! I feel I dress very conservatively. I usually wear the Indian Salwaar kameez suit (long top, pants and scarf). What is the "common conservative" dress in Egypt? Maybe a nieve question! But please do give ur views on this! Thanx

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Love the shalwaar kameez! :-) It looks so comfortable, traditional and trendy at the same time.

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
Love the shalwaar kameez! :-) It looks so comfortable, traditional and trendy at the same time.

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Originally posted by Isis83:
Hey Snoozin!
Does anyone wear salwaars over there? Just curious to know if Indian fashion has caught on there too and not just in the "west" with the Indo-Western styles...
Caio!

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Some younger western women here in the DC area wear it. Not a lot. But by far the largest immigrant group here in my neighborhood growing up were Indians and Pakistanis, so it *feels* like home to me.

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
Some younger western women here in the DC area wear it. Not a lot. But by far the largest immigrant group here in my neighborhood growing up were Indians and Pakistanis, so it *feels* like home to me.

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Originally posted by Snoozin:
I was just wondering how many women hear wear hijab? And what do you think of women who don't?

How am I regarded, as a Western woman, by Muslims (men and women) when I go to Egypt wearing loose-fitting attire, long sleeves/pants/skirts, basically covered from the neck down? Is there less respect for me?

Just curious.....

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hi snoozin

first here in egypt many many egyptian women wear the hijab..so basically any egyptian woman that wear unrespetable tight or short dresses that makes her look sexy, and let the ppl in street to look at her ! she will be unrespected by ppl and she will be totally criticized by most of egyptians.

but inspite of this, there are many egyptian muslim woman that wear un appropriate clothes !

but for the foriegners, it's a different situation, because we know that their customs and habits are different from us..

so we give them some sort of excuse to wear anything but within limits ! but for an arabic muslim woman it's some how criticized !

but unfortunately there are many foriegners that do many criticized actions.as walking topless in the hotels and i ve heard that they may become naked in the beaches!!!

but for any foriegner that will respect the culture and habits of egypt and wear descent ,respetable clothes, sure she will be highly appreciated and respected by the all !!

i think it's very nice to respect one's culture and customs.

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Originally posted by RaniaMe:
You know, Snoozin, whatever you wear, you will remain a foreigner to people in the street, which means you have lower values than an Egyptian woman, and that's why you will be stared at anywhere you go, and some men will come to you and ask you if you're a single, etc... just as Star said. I used to work with a very nice lady, married to an Egyptian for 30 years and living there for 20 years, who told me she still had this kind of remarks. So, yes, for all these ignorant people in the street, you will always be considered as someone who doesn't deserve respect.

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I agree completely but I'd like to add that while wearing decent clothes will hardly make a difference in the way you will be treated wearing a veil does. It seems that a hijab gives a certain message that even the most ignorant people usually tend to respect.

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Originally posted by dawn4ever:
but for any foriegner that will respect the culture and habits of egypt and wear descent ,respetable clothes, sure she will be highly appreciated and respected by the all !!

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I can walk the streets wearing a sack (meaning wide linen pants and knee-length shirts) while right beside me there are Egyptian girls ten years younger than me and wearing skintight jeans and tops – still I will be the one getting harrassed. Very annoying!

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Originally posted by Samia:
I often thought of wearing a niquab... just so men would think there was somebody stunningly beautiful inside!!!

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U are an really funny too LOL