quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Can anyone explain to me the religious aversion to dogs that seems to be prevalent in Muslims?
I've got one.
I rescued her and saved her life.
I love her to death.
I hate it when animals suffer.
Where does this fit in with Islam?
Thanks!
There is a hadith about a man who was walking in the desert and found a thirsty dog beside a deep well; the man kept going down and up the well, filling his shoe with water, to let the dog drink. He kept doing so till the dog is satisfied and not thirsty any more. That man was rewarded heaven.
It recomended that you put your dog away from the place in which you pray, cause dogs always sniff and put their nose every where, even in stinky places. so it is better to keep a clean place, in which you pray.
I my self always have this habit of rescuing small helpless cats and dogs,untill they grow old enough. I believe i will be rewarded as well
quote:Originally posted by Sam on line: There is a hadith about a man who was walking in the desert and found a thirsty dog beside a deep well; the man kept going down and up the well, filling his shoe with water, to let the dog drink. He kept doing so till the dog is satisfied and not thirsty any more. That man was rewarded heaven.
It recomended that you put your dog away from the place in which you pray, cause dogs always sniff and put their nose every where, even in stinky places. so it is better to keep a clean place, in which you pray.
I my self always have this habit of rescuing small helpless cats and dogs,untill they grow old enough. I believe i will be rewarded as well
I like that answer, thank you. And yes, the first time I tried to perform salaat, my dog was very interested in what I was doing and decided to lie down right in front of me. I had to put her in the bedroom. I do know that anything a dog touches (or is it just saliva?) is considered unclean and must be washed 7 times (?) for purification before prayer. I'm willing to do all of that to keep my pup.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: Anything a dog touches is not unclean, thats nonsense.
ill be happy to let them touch and lick your food before you eat it so you can prove it to us, unless ur one of those nasty people who lets a dog lick your mouth EEEEKKKK
Posts: 751 | From: US OF A | Registered: Jan 2005
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Hmmm, that's not encouraging. Thanks for the links. Anyone have any idea why people kept dogs in the Prophet's (pbuh) times, other than as a work animal (herding, guarding)? Just curious....
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quote:Originally posted by 1mangang: ill be happy to let them touch and lick your food before you eat it so you can prove it to us, unless ur one of those nasty people who lets a dog lick your mouth EEEEKKKK
do u have smelly fet u lick pussy don't u she pie an **** don't she ....dickhead u have to wash her wet whisky first a hadit from mo'
Animals are considered to be free spirits - by that I mean they are indipendant living beings. As such to keep a pet (at home or a zoo) is like keeping a (with a bit of stretching the imagination) being from another race as a pet. To rescue one, or save one, or help one is very commended ... but, after that they should be let loose to do what they do. In cases of dire needs - for protections, hunting, etc ... permission has been granted.
Posts: 97 | From: London, UK | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Wa alaikum assalam, Newcomer.
Hmmm, that's not encouraging. Thanks for the links. Anyone have any idea why people kept dogs in the Prophet's (pbuh) times, other than as a work animal (herding, guarding)? Just curious....
I don't understand these reasons at all. One of these fatwas is even saying that a pig is more clean than a dog! The organ cell structure in pigs is the most similar to that of a human, hence the reason why bacteria and infectious diseases are so easily transferred to humans who come into contact with the flesh of these animals.
Where is the logic, foundation and HUMANITY in this belief? What about modern day guide dogs who give "life" to the blind and deaf. Or should we all continue to live in the past and cry ignorance.
I don't believe Allah created an impure animal to be man's best friend and aid the disabled.
Not everyone needs to share their plate or bed with their dog.
Finding this post and the fatwas has been food for thought. Very timely after watching the "sacrifice" of sheep out of my window this morning; which I had always been led to believe was quick and painless. Let's just hope I don't come back as a sheep in my next life and die after two minutes of writhing in a circle of my own blood on the ground with my head hanging off.
Q.) I am a 15 year old Muslim American and my mother is buying a dog. I heard that if I touch the dog, I cannot pray. Is this true? What should I do?
A.) All creatures are the creation of Allah and do deserve the recognition of being a creation of the Almighty. As much as Muslims detest even the sight of pigs - it is the creation of Allah - and because Allah has placed life into it, we cannot inflict pain nor torture the pig.
Similarly Allah created the dog from among His creation. This does not mean that we should love the dog. It is perhaps the indoctrination of the Western culture that 'The dog is Man's best Friend'. The theory that 'dogs are very dependent on Human affection' is a myth - again culture and custom has helped to develop this unnatural behavior.
Allah the Creator of this Universe - having created the dog would surely have known that the dog requires Human affection and love to exist in this world. Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam) would have advised us to keep dogs as pets. On the contrary, we are instructed not to keep dogs as pets and 'love' them as exemplified by the non-Muslims. Remember our life is structured and bound by the Shariah i.e. The Noble Qurãn and the beautiful example of Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam). Consider these Ahaadith:
Sayyidna Abu Talha (Radhiyallaahu Ánhu) reports that Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said, "Angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or an animate picture. (Sahih Bukhari Hadith no. 2986)
Sayyidna Ibn Abbas (Radhiyallaahu Ánhuma) reports from Sayyidna Maimoona (Radhiyallaahu Ánha) that once Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam) became sad; and said that Jibra'eel (Álayhis Salaam) promised to meet him at night but did not turn up. "By Allah what has kept him back," said the Prophet (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam). Then he realised a puppy was under his bed. He ordered that the puppy be removed and the area be sprinkled with water. In the afternoon when Jibra'eel (Álayhi Salaam) came, Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam) enquired as to the delay. Jibra'eel (Álayhi
Salaam) said that we, the group of Angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or pictures. (Sahih Muslim Hadith no.3928)
In the light of these Ahaadith and other narrations it is not permissible to keep dogs as pets. The household is deprived of the Mercy of Allah Taãla.
However, Jurists have stated that it is permissible to keep a dog for security purposes, farming and hunting.
The saliva of a dog is Najis (impure). If it touches the clothes or body, that portion also becomes impure and must be washed. And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Albalagh Note: You can share this answer with your mother, since it is she who has to make the decision. You must be very polite in talking to her about this issue and let your love and concern persuade her to the right action. If she still insists you may have to live with it. In that case make sure you understand the issue of purity and take necessary precautions.
posted
84. * The following ten things are extremely filthy (najis): 1) Urine, 2)Faeces, 3)Semen, 4)Dead body, 5)Blood, 6)Dog, 7)Pig, 8)Kafir (!!!), 9)Alcoholic liquors 10)The sweat of an animal http://www.al-islam.org/laws/najisthings.htmlPosts: 597 | Registered: Aug 2005
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If you want my extremely American, very newly-converted Muslim take on this:
Dogs are one of God's creatures and is therefore beautiful. Islam stresses the value of all life, all of God's creation. There is a hadith about how a person was blessed for saving a dog's life. The dog was so thirsty it was biting at dust. A person took of his/her shoe, put it down a well, got water, and let the dog drink until it was full.
There is another part of Islam that stresses cleanliness. This has two effects. The major one is to be clean for God, to be pure while performing the salaat and prayer. The other one is that cleanliness is crucial for health purposes, particularly back in the Prophet's (pbuh) time.
Many thought dogs were dirty, especially the saliva, because it could carry diseases, like rabies.
But here we are in 2005, with fully innoculated dogs, no germs, and very clean because I keep my dog clean.
To put these two things together in Islam, dogs and cleanliness, the way *I* interpret is that I must be kind to animals and God may bless me for being kind to animals. However, I must not forget that I must respect God at all times, including being clean, and especially being clean for salaat. Respect and love for God must always take precedence. But respect for animals is honorable too.
That's my opinion. Others may disagree. But I believe I respect God by maintaining cleanliness at all times, especially for salaat, and I respect Him by saving a dog's life, by keeping it healthy and loved.
My humble opinion.
Snoozin.
quote:Originally posted by harem girl: I don't understand these reasons at all. One of these fatwas is even saying that a pig is more clean than a dog! The organ cell structure in pigs is the most similar to that of a human, hence the reason why bacteria and infectious diseases are so easily transferred to humans who come into contact with the flesh of these animals.
Where is the logic, foundation and HUMANITY in this belief? What about modern day guide dogs who give "life" to the blind and deaf. Or should we all continue to live in the past and cry ignorance.
I don't believe Allah created an impure animal to be man's best friend and aid the disabled.
Not everyone needs to share their plate or bed with their dog.
Finding this post and the fatwas has been food for thought. Very timely after watching the "sacrifice" of sheep out of my window this morning; which I had always been led to believe was quick and painless. Let's just hope I don't come back as a sheep in my next life and die after two minutes of writhing in a circle of my own blood on the ground with my head hanging off.
Where is the love?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by primak: Is this "your" version of Islam?
It is very simple, dogs are impure in Islam...you either like it or leave it, but don't start inventing another new version, sister!
You are of course entitled to your own opinion. I thought Muslims aren't supposed to judge *how Muslim* one another are...
as Tariq Ramadan has said, "We have to start with a principle—whoever, woman or man, says, I am a Muslim, and feels that he or she is a Muslim is a Muslim and should be considered as such. We have to stop judging each other."
or am I (and Ramadan) wrong about that too?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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I agree that once a person has said that they are a Muslim that it is not up to someone else to say they are not, unless of course they do or say something that clearly contradict this. Aside from the fact that primak does not claim to be a Muslim, he is not saying that you are not a Muslim, but he is correct in advising you that a Muslim cannot make their own rulings in Islam.
The Hadith that talks about Angels not entering a house where there is a dog is a clear indication of this and is supported by other Hadith. They aren’t qualified by any conditions such as the dog being dirty or untrained, it is an unequivocal statement and applicable until the end of time, and Islamically, once something is decided by Allah or His Messenger, a Muslim cannot make their own ruling on it. We are entitled to work out how well we personally can follow a ruling, but we can’t make our own interpretations, put limitations or conditions on rulings that Allah didn’t make, or make assumptions as to why rulings were made if this has not been clarified by the sources. If we have doubts as to any ruling we have to refer to the scholars for their advice not make our own decisions.
Offering advice to a fellow Muslim is very much part of Islam and should be done to help them improve their practice of the religion.
[This message has been edited by newcomer (edited 02 September 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by harem girl: I don't understand these reasons at all. One of these fatwas is even saying that a pig is more clean than a dog! The organ cell structure in pigs is the most similar to that of a human, hence the reason why bacteria and infectious diseases are so easily transferred to humans who come into contact with the flesh of these animals.
Where is the logic, foundation and HUMANITY in this belief? What about modern day guide dogs who give "life" to the blind and deaf. Or should we all continue to live in the past and cry ignorance.
I don't believe Allah created an impure animal to be man's best friend and aid the disabled.
Not everyone needs to share their plate or bed with their dog.
Finding this post and the fatwas has been food for thought. Very timely after watching the "sacrifice" of sheep out of my window this morning; which I had always been led to believe was quick and painless. Let's just hope I don't come back as a sheep in my next life and die after two minutes of writhing in a circle of my own blood on the ground with my head hanging off.
Where is the love?
Hi harem girl!
The issue about dogs is one that does confuse many people, as they try to answer it in a scientific way rather than a religious way. Basically from my understanding, Allah created animals and the universe to serve man and to provide him with sustenance and the means to live. He also told us that we were responsible for taking care of all His creation and treating it well. As far are dogs are concerned they have a purpose in that they can be used as guard dogs and for hunting, and I have not seen any objection raised by anyone for them to be used as guide dogs for the blind. However, they are not humans, and they do not have the same status or value as humans, and they have their own place like any other animal, which is outside the house.
As Snoozin said, there are different types of impurity, the purity that is referred to as “najis” is ritual purity, which is not always the same as a “scientific purity” and relates to purity for prayer. So contact with something that is najis necessitates a believer having to make themselves ritually pure from it before prayer, so as dogs are najis we have make sure we are pure from contact with them before praying. We have also been told to wash a plate that a dog has licked seven times, one of them being with soil, and it has been shown that soil is effect in removing harmful bacteria that can be found in a dog’s saliva in the same way as mud face masks remove impurities from the face.
Regarding the sheep slaughter that you saw, once the jugular vein is cut an animal feels no pain as this cuts off the blood supply to the animal’s brain. What you saw, and I agree it is very disturbing when you see it for the first time, is a hypoxic spasm, an autonomic nervous reaction, which the animal is no more aware of than you are of your instinctive autonomic functions. The jerking actually serves a positive purpose in that it pumps the blood out of the animal’s veins so that it reduces the amount left in the meat.
There was a report of a study done at Hanover University that was in support of Islamic halal slaughtering methods, but there seems to be some question about the veracity of the report and as I can’t find the original study, I thought it best not to quote the report. I did however find a report done in the States about halal and kosher slaughtering that says if they are done properly they are both actually very humane ways of slaughtering, although it does suggest that there needs to be more training of people who are doing it to make sure it is done properly. http://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.slaugh.html
posted
We don't get anything from the Universe, only the Earth. In fact, 99% of the universe is so far away that at the speed of light we could never get there. I guess god mad all that universe for us to look at?
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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1. All matter and energy, including Earth, the galaxies and all therein, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole. 2. a. The earth together with all its inhabitants and created things. b. The human race.
Not only does it provide for our physical needs, but also as a means to stretch and develop our mental capacities. And if we look at it in the right way, we can even start to get a glimpse of the power and ability of God!
posted
Right newcomer, but we only get to use the Earth to provide for our needs. Astronomers tell us that there are more stars in the visible universe than grains of sand on the beeches of the Earth. Why did God make all of that....not for our use. Its a little silly to think, based on what we know , that there isn't life all over the universe. That is why when you try to take the Koran or Bible literally you run into a brick wall.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
If I had ever said that it was all created solely to serve man then your conclusion may have been partly correct, but I didn't. So no brick wall for me!
And we only use the Earth, since when? What about the heat from the sun, the effect of the moon on the tides, the rotation of the planets, and a hundred and one scientific benefits we get from being part of the universe that due to my lack of scientific background I am not aware of. But I am sure that someone who has more knowledge than me about it can elucidate. Or am I stepping into the realms of unsubstantiated belief by saying that?
posted
no....you may actually be right newcomer, I just like to clarify some of these things that come out of these so called food for thought. You may be aware that new solar sydstems are now being discovered around other stars everwhere. In a year or two a new telescope will go into space that will allow us to find earth like planets . The answers to many questions are coming but then again, we may just end up with more questions.
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posted
And we will never know all the answers, isn't God/Allah amazing? He can keep our minds occupied with discovering His universe to the end of time, and we will still be finding more questions to ask!
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posted
here is a question for you newcomer...what is the present? If you really think about it there is no present. In theory it is the point where the past and the future meet but in reality there can be no such point. Time is something we have constructed on our own. It is not a reality in the universe. If we find that there is life all over the universe what does that do to your religious views? It would be obvious than that we are not the center of God's universe or his attention. Another question...what is the soul? where is it located? Usually when I ask that question people try to tell me what it does....my questionis...what is it?
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
good point Lobo...what does that tell you about the terrorists in the middle east. We kill them by the hundreds every week and they keep coming back out of their worm holes. Pretty insane if you ask me.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: here is a question for you newcomer...what is the present? If you really think about it there is no present. In theory it is the point where the past and the future meet but in reality there can be no such point. Time is something we have constructed on our own. It is not a reality in the universe. If we find that there is life all over the universe what does that do to your religious views? It would be obvious than that we are not the center of God's universe or his attention. Another question...what is the soul? where is it located? Usually when I ask that question people try to tell me what it does....my questionis...what is it?
I have no problem with your description of “the present”. Although we didn’t create time, we just discovered a way to define and measure it that gave us a way to communicate about it to others, which made the world easier for us to live in. Time was here before man.
I would also have no problem if life was discovered all over the universe. We already know that there are other beings that have parallel lives to ours in this world, so it would not affect my beliefs to know that there are other beings on other planets either. I don’t think that we are the focus of Allah’s attention; He has only favoured us above other creatures on this planet with our minds.
According to my understanding the soul is a spiritual element that when combined with the human body gives it life, is taken away on death, and will live eternally. It is a special capacity for acquiring knowledge that is often associated with the heart, but it’s exact position is unknown as it is intangible to human beings and it therefore cannot be described in physical terms.
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Well, Harem Girl,
If you want my extremely American, very newly-converted Muslim take on this:
Dogs are one of God's creatures and is therefore beautiful. Islam stresses the value of all life, all of God's creation. There is a hadith about how a person was blessed for saving a dog's life. The dog was so thirsty it was biting at dust. A person took of his/her shoe, put it down a well, got water, and let the dog drink until it was full.
There is another part of Islam that stresses cleanliness. This has two effects. The major one is to be clean for God, to be pure while performing the salaat and prayer. The other one is that cleanliness is crucial for health purposes, particularly back in the Prophet's (pbuh) time.
Many thought dogs were dirty, especially the saliva, because it could carry diseases, like rabies.
But here we are in 2005, with fully innoculated dogs, no germs, and very clean because I keep my dog clean.
To put these two things together in Islam, dogs and cleanliness, the way *I* interpret is that I must be kind to animals and God may bless me for being kind to animals. However, I must not forget that I must respect God at all times, including being clean, and especially being clean for salaat. Respect and love for God must always take precedence. But respect for animals is honorable too.
That's my opinion. Others may disagree. But I believe I respect God by maintaining cleanliness at all times, especially for salaat, and I respect Him by saving a dog's life, by keeping it healthy and loved.
My humble opinion.
Snoozin.
I agree with you Snoozing The religion is easing and not squeezing
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Assalamu alaykum Snoozin!
I agree that once a person has said that they are a Muslim that it is not up to someone else to say they are not, unless of course they do or say something that clearly contradict this. Aside from the fact that primak does not claim to be a Muslim, he is not saying that you are not a Muslim, but he is correct in advising you that a Muslim cannot make their own rulings in Islam.
The Hadith that talks about Angels not entering a house where there is a dog is a clear indication of this and is supported by other Hadith. They aren’t qualified by any conditions such as the dog being dirty or untrained, it is an unequivocal statement and applicable until the end of time, and Islamically, once something is decided by Allah or His Messenger, a Muslim cannot make their own ruling on it. We are entitled to work out how well we personally can follow a ruling, but we can’t make our own interpretations, put limitations or conditions on rulings that Allah didn’t make, or make assumptions as to why rulings were made if this has not been clarified by the sources. If we have doubts as to any ruling we have to refer to the scholars for their advice not make our own decisions.
Offering advice to a fellow Muslim is very much part of Islam and should be done to help them improve their practice of the religion.
[This message has been edited by newcomer (edited 02 September 2005).]
Wa alaikum assalam, Newcomer.
Thank you for all of this information. I always value what you tell me and I really appreciate that you take the time to look up things for me.
I probably didn't make myself very clear this morning in my original post. I was tired and running out of time (I'm always late!).
After posting this original thread, I did some research on the links you gave me and also discussed this issue with my fiance.
To put this in context, Pendarth had suggested I find one mahdab (sp?) and learn that one first. My fiance's familiy is Maliki, so I chose that out of convenience. I am pretty ignorant on the different schools of jurisprudence, but I will learn.
Anyway, it seems that the Maliki school doesn't find *any* part of the dog (including saliva) impure. ?? I found this at several different sources, although I cannot vouch for the degree of reliability. It is also what my fiance said to me.
Therefore, I am trying to respect that the other three major schools find at least dog's saliva to be impure, while following this Maliki ruling.
I don't know if I totally understand the difference between interpreting Islam and personally deciding how well I can follow particular rules. ? Could you elaborate on that a little more for me? I'm probably being dense, but I don't want to pick up any *bad habits* as far as how I am learning about Islam and practicing it.
Again, thank you, as always. Salaam,
Susan
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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I checked the link out as depite having lived in the States, I had never heard of him. It appears that he has some controversial theories and I would like to hear an assessment of them by other scholars.
Thanks for the explanation of what was behind what you wrote. What Pendarth recommended was in fact what many scholars recommend for someone who is new in Islam, to adopt one of the main schools of thought and learn it well, before looking at the others. The main difficulty with your choice of the Maliki madhhab as an English speaker, although it is a valid one in your circumstances, is that as far as I know there is not as much information available on the overall fiqh of that school, and most of the websites that give fiqh rulings tend to be from the other madhhabs, as these are the ones most commonly followed by English speaking Muslims. The main Maliki work that has been translated into English is his “Muwatta”, a book of the Prophet’s and Companion’s sayings that he authenticated. (The best English translation of it that I have seen is by Aisha Bewley.) If you go to Halalco, they can perhaps advise you of other books from that school of thought.
Following your comment, I too did a check around the internet and found as you said that the Maliki School was the only one that didn’t say that a dog was najis, based on their interpretation of the Hadith about eating meat that had been carried by a hunting dog. However, from my check, that was the only aspect regarding dogs that the Maliki School differed from the majority of Sunnis scholars on. They all seem to be in agreement on the interpretation of the Hadith about Angels not coming into a house with a dog in it and also the following Hadith:
Ibn 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported: “Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: ‘He who keeps a dog, other than one meant for watching the herd or for hunting, looses every day out of his (good) deeds the equal of two qirats (a standard of measurement)’.”
What I meant by saying that you can make decisions about how much you can follow, was that, for example, at present due to your lack of knowledge you are not able to pray properly so you are not following all the rulings regarding the prayer. However, although you are not following them all you still acknowledge that it is an obligation on all Muslims to do it, thereby accepting the judgement of Allah and His Prophet. However, if because you found it difficult to do, say at work, or you were embarrassed to do it in front of other people, or you were too lazy to do it, and you said that it didn’t matter, you didn’t have to do it all the time; that would be making your own interpretation due to your own feelings and would be a denial of the obligation imposed by Allah.
This sadly happens too often and people think that they can make their own rulings based on their own understandings. If you look around you will find someone somewhere who is willing to give a ruling on almost anything to suit people’s desires, which may in fact contradict the sources, either due to their lack of knowledge of all the information in the sources or how to interpret them properly, or due to wanting to please people’s desires more than to obey Allah’s word. This is why we need to make sure we consult reliable, Muslim scholars, who are knowledgeable and fear being disobedient to Allah, if we want to get the best advice. We must also still remember that even the best scholars are not infallible, only the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was that. Imam Malik and all the other three major imams never claimed to be infallible either; they all said that if something was found in the Qur’an and Sunnah that contradicted their opinions that we should follow that rather than their opinions. So basically they all agreed that the Qur’an and Sunnah should be our measure for everything. Sorry for the long post, but I hope it clarifies what I said a little.
quote:Originally posted by kafir4 ever: It is perhaps the indoctrination of the Western culture that 'The dog is Man's best Friend'. The theory that 'dogs are very dependent on Human affection' is a myth - again culture and custom has helped to develop this unnatural behavior.
If the relationship between dog and man is an invention of "Western culture" why should a dog have been mentioned as man's companion in the Qur'an?
"You would think that they were awake, when they were in fact asleep. We turned them to the right side and the left side, while their dog stretched his arms in their midst." (18:18 )
"Some would say, they were three; their dog being the fourth, while others would say, Five; the sixth being their dog, as they guessed. Others said, seven, and the eighth was their dog. Say, My Lord is the best knower of their number. Therefore, do not argue with them; just go along with them. You need not consult anyone about this." ( 18:22 )
[This message has been edited by Dalia (edited 03 September 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Assalamu alaykum Snoozin!
Wa alaikum assalam, Newcomer.
Thanks for the clarification, and yes, I have found it really difficult to find much on Maliki school.
And thank you for explaining the difference between making my own interpretation of Islam vs. how well I can personally follow it. Your explanation makes perfect sense to me.
So I have another basic question for you. When you look to the Qur'an and Sunna to figure out a particular topic, like dogs, and there are a variety of references to it, and some are slightly contradictory, what do I do? Is this where I rely on Muslim scholars? I guess, what happens if I somehow find myself in a situation that I'm not sure what to do, and can't find a ruling on it? This is probably more likely to happen while I'm still learning. I hope, inshallah, to get to a point where I feel comfortable and knowledgable about most of the major things.
Again, thanks as always, salaam,
Snoozin.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Can anyone explain to me the religious aversion to dogs that seems to be prevalent in Muslims?
I've got one.
I rescued her and saved her life.
I love her to death.
I hate it when animals suffer.
Where does this fit in with Islam?
Thanks!
1) DOG KILLING
This is how many dogs he killed....enjoy
From Bukhari
Vol. 4, #540 - Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.
From the Hadith of Abu Dawud -
#2839 - Abd Allah B. Mughaffal reported the apostle of Allah as saying: Were dogs not a species of creature I should command that they all be killed; but kill every pure black one.
The Hadith's note for #2839 says, "The prophet did not order the killing of all the dogs, for some are to be retained for hunting and watching. He ordered to kill the jet black ones. They might be more mischievous among them.
From Sahih Muslim
#3814 - Ibn Mughaffal reported: Allah's messenger ordered the killing of dogs and then said, "what is the trouble with them (the people of Medina? How dogs are nuisances to them (the citizens of Medina)? He then permitted keeping of dogs for hunting and (the protection of) herds. ...[and for] for the protection of cultivated land.
From Sahih Muslim
#3813 - Abu Zubair heard Jabir Abdullah saying: Allah's messenger ordered us to kill dogs and we carried out this order so much so that we also killed the dog roaming with a women from the desert. Then Allah's apostle forbade their killing. He said: "It is your duty to kill the jet-black (dog) having two spots (on the eyes) for it is a devil.
The note for #3814 says, "The Hadith gives us an idea why the prophet commanded to kill dogs. There must have been an excess of stray dogs and thus the danger of rabies in the city of Medina and its suburbs. The prophet therefore ordered to kill them. Later on when it was found that his Companions were killing them indiscriminately, he forbade them to do so and told them that only the ferocious beasts which were a source of danger to life should be killed. The word "Devil" in the Hadith clarifies this point. Here devil stands for ferocious.
HOWEVER THE REASONING WITHIN THE NOTE IS INCORRECT – READ BELOW.
From Sahih Muslim
#5248 – Maimuna reported that one morning Allah’s Messenger was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah’s Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah’s Messenger said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah’s Messenger spent the day in this sad mood. Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but h spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields or big gardens.
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: So I have another basic question for you. When you look to the Qur'an and Sunna to figure out a particular topic, like dogs, and there are a variety of references to it, and some are slightly contradictory, what do I do? Is this where I rely on Muslim scholars? I guess, what happens if I somehow find myself in a situation that I'm not sure what to do, and can't find a ruling on it? This is probably more likely to happen while I'm still learning. I hope, inshallah, to get to a point where I feel comfortable and knowledgable about most of the major things.
Can I suggest Snoozin, at this stage, rather than concentrating on the rules and regulations, although they are important, they aren’t the priority right now, other than learning how to pray? What would be most useful for you at this stage would be to take some time studying the pillars of Iman (faith) and learning how these basic concepts differ from Christianity, as there are some important differences in all these areas. If we look at the way the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) taught Islam, he took 23 years to gradually teach his Companions about Islam, and he spent the major portion of the first 13 years teaching them about faith based matters and the basic rulings. The majority of the rulings were revealed or taught in the latter period, after the Muslims had migrated to Medina. When groups of people accepted Islam, the Prophet would send one of the Companions to teach the people about Islam and how to apply it in their daily lives. I know times are different now and we are literate and have so much information available to us, but as you have found, on the subject of dogs, it seemed a very simple matter, but the more you got into it the more complicated it became when you had to consider all the relevant matters, and then on top of that to find a ruling that complies with Maliki fiqh!
I would suggest that concentrating on studying the Pillars of Iman, followed by the Pillars of Islam should be your priority now, and becoming familiar with the Qur’an and the Prophet’s Biography. This will provide you the basic foundations. Just give yourself some time to fill in some of the gaps in your studying up to now. This way you will be giving yourself a firmer foundation for the future.
As to working out rulings for yourself, you made a comment once that you would need to to a Bachelors, Masters and PhD to learn everything about Islam, and that was only partially true, you would actually need much wider studying than that to really come to grips with all the knowledge you would need to be able to look at the Qur’an and Hadith and come up with your own rulings! How long did it take you to become a lawyer specialising in one specific area of law? And that was after you had grown up in your society and absorbed a lot of knowledge about American law before you went to college. Reading the Qur’an and Hadith will give you familiarity with some areas, but for a long time you are going to need to rely on teachers, scholars, and knowledgeable people to guide you in most things, as it will take time to learn which evidences are relevant and how to apply them. So for the time being, I would suggest that if you want information on a subject, first turn to Allah and ask Him to guide you to the right answer, then if you can’t find the information yourself or it seems confusing, turn to the people around you for advice, your fiancée, N. and F. The latter will be a very good source of advice, as I know that she has done some further studies and also has access to some good scholars, whereas I am not so sure of N’s background. If you still can’t find the information you need, do what you did when you went to the funeral, ask Allah to guide you, use your best judgement, and then try to find the right answer afterwards. If you have done your best and made a mistake through ignorance, this will, insha Allah (if Allah wills) be forgiven.
Sorry, another long one, a little off topic I know, but there were some things that I felt relevant to the subject. Hope you don't mind!
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Hi Snoozin! I totally agree with Newcomer. At your stage, don't try to learn and understand everything. It's what I wanted to do to, when I converted! But the friend who helped me to convert told me "one thing at a time, first, learn how to pray, learn how many sourat you can, repeat them again and again, to get the right pronunciation, and read the Qu'ran again and again". Till now, you know, I'm still at this stage! I love to learn about Islam, and I'm learning everyday, I love questioning, but I really try to focus on the most important things in Islam: praying, at the exact time, forcing me to wake up at night for praying while I would love to keep sleeping..., follow the righteous path of Islam (which is not easy at all when you live in the West, I'm experiencing it everyday here), spending time on the Qu'ran...All around me, there are so many things tempting me, so ending the day without sins is really a challenge! This is my daily jihad. For the rest, which scholars said that and that...I don't care for now. Soon, I will take Islamic classes inshAllah, because I will be ready. And I will wear the hijab inshaAllah. For now, I'm doing my best to respect the Islamic rules in my daily life. Good luck!
Posts: 213 | From: Paris/ Le Caire | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: I checked the link out as depite having lived in the States, I had never heard of him. It appears that he has some controversial theories and I would like to hear an assessment of them by other scholars.
He has some contraversial issues indeed, one of them is supporting the Woman Imam Wadud while showing how such an issue is not very strange within the Fiqh school of Muslims. He is an extension of the long line coming from the Egyptian famous scholar Muhammad Abdo who championed a reforming movment against the traditionalists during his time who stopped any kind of Ijtihad (many don't know that Abdo even praised Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab ). Khaled Abu El Fadl graduated from Al Azhar and while sometimes he may bring contraversial issues but he is well versed in Fiqh and Islamic Law.
It's strange you didn't hear about him as I used to think he was the most reaching voice to the american government alongside Imam Hamza Yousef, I think he was even chosen by Bush to participate in a report aiming to speak of religious freedom in the world which later he found it very bias.
posted
I appear to have had connections with a different circle of Muslims from Mr. Bush!
Looking round Khaled Abu El Fadl's site it did mention that he had been invited to participate in a government committee, but the government there makes sure that they choose their people carefully. Anybody who has had any connection with Saudi Arabia, even if they violently object to the Salafis and the Saudi regime, are regarded as suspect and labelled Wahhabis. Hamza Yusuf seems to have gained approval, maybe because his Islamic links were with more with Morocco and due to him being the sheikh of a Sufi tariqah, so he is seen as less of a hardliner.
[This message has been edited by newcomer (edited 04 September 2005).]
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Thanks for the links. Anyone have any idea why people kept dogs in the Prophet's (pbuh) times, other than as a work animal (herding, guarding)? Just curious....
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