posted
These pictures were already printed in Al-Fagr in Egypt at octobre 17th. Nothing happened. As it should not. The paper used it in an intelligent article about political drawings.
Do we have to duck and seek shelter now from these orchestrated riots? I believe all voices should be heard now. And she has a very clear voice. We have different voices over here. Unfortunately Ayaan (and some others) has to be highly guarded for speaking her voice, something unknown to the Netherlands a few years ago. I did see this documentary where journalists in Russia were killed over their publications. That is really scaring me, and I am sure that is what Ayaan does stand for. To be able to have a difference in opinion, to have irony and even insult and not get killed over it, or kill each other, as most victims of these uproars are unfortunately agonized muslims themselves.
quote:Originally posted by MaliG182: I hate that bitch. She should be killed like her Dutch friend.
Illahay musibo ha uu soodiro
You people are insane. I've had it with death wishes and such.....you are animals. Enough!
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MaliG182: I hate that bitch. She should be killed like her Dutch friend.
So anyone that has an oposing idea should be killed and is denied to live? What a world.
Posts: 657 | From: Cairo | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ayaan Hirsi Ali said: "... although the Prophet Muhammad did a lot of good things, his decree that homosexuals and apostates should be killed was incompatible with democracy"
What do you think about this statement? Do you agree or not? Posts: 19 | From: Brazil | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MaliG182: I hate that bitch. She should be killed like her Dutch friend.
Illahay musibo ha uu soodiro
I totally disagree .. may be she is hypocrite but whom made you the judge to kill her and why is that, even hypocrites aren't judged to death "read the seera and you will know"
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MaliG182: I hate that bitch. She should be killed like her Dutch friend.
Illahay musibo ha uu soodiro
I totally disagree .. may be she is hypocrite but whom made you the judge to kill her and why is that, even hypocrites aren't judged to death "read the seera and you will know"
I've always heard, "If somebody leaves Islam, they should be killed."
Can you disprove this ideology of kill all muslims who leave Islam, by quoting a verse from the Quran or a hadeeth please?
Posts: 356 | From: NEVERMIND | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Even in the bible there must be something written that leads people to believe that it is better to be dead and in 'Christ' than alive and a non-believer. Several years ago, maybe still active, there was this evangelismpractice going on in the Amazonas, where Indians were forced to come out of the jungle to a christian farms, some died getting there over the long walk from the interior, others for being exposed to 'western' diseases (Indians seem to be extra vulnerable to childrens diseases we all go through normally) and after their training at the farm they are dropped into the city where they end up alcoholics and prostitutes. But all is well, as long as they are in 'Christ'. So, if one has to become 'literal' about these sort of things, there is always a possibility to act in such horrendous ways.
quote:Originally posted by MaliG182: Can you disprove this ideology of kill all muslims who leave Islam, by quoting a verse from the Quran or a hadeeth please?
Can you prove your statement with a verse from the Qur'an?
The punishment for apostasy is up to God, not to humans.
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Sharee’ah. The one who leaves Islaam will be asked to repent by the Sharee’ah judge in an Islaamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).
Posts: 356 | From: NEVERMIND | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dalia, muslims don't disregard the hadeeths of the prophet (s.a.w). The teaching of the prophet (s.a.w.) are just as important as the teaching of the Quran, as they are the perfect implementation of the Quran.
"How shall God Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Apostle was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but God guides not a people unjust. Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of God, of His angels, and of all mankind." (Quran 3:86-87)
"Anyone who, after accepting faith in God, utters Unbelief,— except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith — but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from God, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." (Quran 16:106)
Posts: 356 | From: NEVERMIND | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
In regard to the authority of the Sunnah, there is also the Qur'anic verse: YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path. PICKTHAL: And it becometh not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His messenger have decided an affair (for them), that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His messenger, he verily goeth astray in error manifest. SHAKIR: And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.(Surah Al-Ahzab, 33:36)
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
wrath from God and not from MaliG, right? Or is there some disagreement about who is God and who is Mali? The problem with your reasoning is that going outside the religion, to apostasy, requires one to SAY they reject Islam. There is a big difference between saying you completely reject Islam, and voicing questions, criticisms, doubt or dismay about the CURRENT 1426 interpretation of Islam and the behavior of brothers and sisters within Islam. If you study your history you will see that Islam has had many faces, from more moderate and less literal applications to dark and oppressive "manifestations of faith."
And yes, I think gays and people who leave the religion are supposed to be killed. If you go back to the Quran and follow it closely, there will be a lot more people that "must be killed." After they go to the judge, of course, and not by the decision of uneducated people who have no knowledge with which to judge them. The Arabs have had a little breather from burying people to the neck and stoning them, I wonder, is that part of the Western influence, that unwillingness to stone people? Hmm.
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MaliG182: Dalia, muslims don't disregard the hadeeths of the prophet (s.a.w). The teaching of the prophet (s.a.w.) are just as important as the teaching of the Quran, as they are the perfect implementation of the Quran.
Well, the majority does, but certainly not all Muslims, so please don't try to tell me that ALL Muslims are following ONLY ONE interpretation because that's far removed from the truth.
Besides – If capital punishment for apostasy is not mentioned in the Qur'an there must be a reason for it. Surely we can't assume God "forgot" to mention such a grave matter and that it's now up to interpretation that's relying on a hadith.
There are many things to say on this subject, it might be interesting to take a look at the consequences such a punishment, if implemented, has on a society, i.e. isn't that supporting hypocrisy? Or whether this kind of punishment is maybe contradicting other parts of the Qur'an.
But I don't believe in a violent and punishing God, you obviously do, so I see no sense in debating with you.
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
This kind of violent reactions, from all these ignorant people, is really scary. I only wish they could one day open a History book, and discover that what they are doing now, people did it in the 18th century...How crazy. Please, read Voltaire, read Montesquieu...What a waste of time. You really want to keep living and thinking like they did in the Middle Ages. Please, make an effort, 18th century is close, try to move to this step, try to be enlightened.
Posts: 531 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Barbapapa: read Voltaire, read Montesquieu...try to be enlightened.
So what you're saying is that one is not enlightened unless has read for this Mr. Voltaire? (what's with the name, was he an electrician? )
You know, and I'm quoting the wife of a Dutch minister on national TV: France is the most beautiful country on Earth.. Such a shame that the French live there.
posted
I think she's referring to all the wars in Europe. War war war.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Everyone can quote a famous writer of the "Lumieres" (Corvinous, that's the time in Europe when philosophers and writers started to think, after the awful wars of religion, that religion was something personal). MyKingdom, you can say all what you say about French people, I don't care I'm from Jewish descent, raised Catholic, and reverted to Islam...I'm not specially attached to any country. And I know what it means to be rejected because you belong to a specific religion. Just quoting from the French literature and philosophy because it's the one I know the best. But the Dutch had great philosophers too, just like the Germans. Anyway, that's the last time I'm wasting my time in this Religion board...I'm totally secular, religion must stay at home, it takes me too much energy to fight with fanatics!!
Posts: 531 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
You see, we can have a great conversation about how to teach languages to our kids. When it comes to religion, it's just impossible. Everyone is going to hate me here, but, if you get the opportunity, read Montesquieu -I will try to get you the translation, there is a passage I really love inside.
Posts: 531 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't hate you....I think it is really cool you've learned from all 3 Abrahamic religions. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
I meet here certain people who are never done discussing religion, but who seem at the same time to contend as to who shall observe it least. These disputants are, however, no better Christians, nor even better citizens, than others; and that it is that moves me: for the principal part of any religion consists in obedience to the laws, in loving mankind, and in revering one’s parents. Indeed, ought it not to be the chief aim of a religious man to please the Deity who has founded the religion which he professes? But the surest way to please God is, without doubt, to obey the laws of society, and do our duty towards men. For, whatever religion we may profess, as soon as we grant its existence, it becomes at once necessary to assume that God loves men, since He establishes a religion for their happiness: then, since He loves men, we are certain of pleasing Him in loving them too—in other words, in fulfilling all the duties of charity and humanity, and in breaking none of the laws under which men live. We are much more certain of pleasing God in this way, than in the observance of this or that ceremony; for ceremonies have no goodness in themselves; they are only relatively good, and on the supposition that God has commanded them. But this is a subject which might be discussed endlessly; and one could easily deceive oneself regarding it, because it is necessary to choose the rites of one religion from among those of two thousand. A man prayed to God daily in the following terms: “Lord, I do not understand any of those discussions that are carried on without end regarding Thee: I would serve Thee according to Thy will; but each man whom I consult would have me serve Thee according to his. When I desire to pray, I know not in which language to address Thee. Nor do I know what posture to adopt: one bids me pray standing; another, sitting; and another requires me to kneel. That is not all: there are some who insist that I ought to wash every morning in cold water; others maintain that Thou regardest me with horror if I do not remove a certain small portion of my flesh. I happened the other day to eat of a rabbit in a caravansary: three men who were present made me tremble: all three maintained that I had grievously offended Thee; one,1 because that animal was unclean; another,2 because it had been strangled; and the third,3 because it was not a fish. A Brahmin who was passing by, and whom I asked to be our judge, said to me, ‘They are all wrong, for it appears that you did not kill the animal yourself.’ ‘I did, though,’ said I. ‘Ah, then, you have committed an abominable act, which God will never pardon,’ said he to me, in a severe tone. ‘How do you know that the soul of your father had not passed into that beast?’ All these things, O Lord, trouble me beyond expression. I cannot move my head but I am threatened with Thy wrath. Nevertheless I would please Thee, and devote to that end the life which Thou hast given me. I may be deceiving myself; but I think that the best means to accomplish this aim is to live as a good citizen in the society where Thou hast placed me, and as a good father in the family which Thou hast given me.”
Paris, the 8th of the moon of Chahban, 1713.
The Persian Letters, Montesquieu (At the time, Montesquieu had to hide himself because he would have been arrested, since he was attacking religion. He uses two main characters, who are Persians and who are discovering France)
Posts: 531 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Egyptian Heart Girl: Ayaan Hirsi Ali said: "... although the Prophet Muhammad did a lot of good things, his decree that homosexuals and apostates should be killed was incompatible with democracy"
What do you think about this statement? Do you agree or not?
democracy is an imperialist concept. A democarcy does not always work. Taking a vote, and having a majority rule, is not always conveivable, espcially if the majority is corrupt, or does not have the honorable intentions of their constituents in their agenda. For her to say Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) decree was
quote: incompatible with democracy
further illustrates my point of other nations imposing their authoritarian view to force others to accept their doctrines. Why does she feel that Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) view should have been democratic? Should there have been tolorance for such abominations as homosexuallity? I would rather live in a totalitarian society which supports the beleifs and practices that I agree with, than in a "free democracy" that allows Shayta to frollic around the beleivers.
Posts: 478 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Barbapapa: MyKingdom, you can say all what you say about French people, I don't care I'm from Jewish descent, raised Catholic, and reverted to Islam...I'm not specially attached to any country. And I know what it means to be rejected because you belong to a specific religion. Just quoting from the French literature and philosophy because it's the one I know the best.
Although I don't have a nice time when I go to France (but I still go for the clothes ) I was just joking.
quote:Originally posted by Barbapapa: I'm totally secular, religion must stay at home, it takes me too much energy to fight with fanatics!!
Totally agree
Stick to the Living in Egypt section. It has less freaks. Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MaliG182: I hate that bitch. She should be killed like her Dutch friend.
Illahay musibo ha uu soodiro
I totally disagree .. may be she is hypocrite but whom made you the judge to kill her and why is that, even hypocrites aren't judged to death "read the seera and you will know"
I've always heard, "If somebody leaves Islam, they should be killed."
Can you disprove this ideology of kill all muslims who leave Islam, by quoting a verse from the Quran or a hadeeth please?
Can you prove else by hadeeth or Quran and don't tell me the wars agains apostasy because this is totally different I dunno exactly what is the apostasy punishment and may be you are right but she is not apostasy she is muslim and you can't judge anyone whom say the "shahdah" that he ain't and again don't talk about apostasy war by Abou baker because this is totally different because he was doing it for islam rules to survive else the islam pillars would have been abondent and the islam would have been died and this is another story
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
That Somali beauty was arrested in her country for prostitution working in the French military camp and she was smuggled out of the country by the like when founded.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'm from Jewish descent, raised Catholic, and reverted to Islam...I'm not specially attached to any country. And I know what it means to be rejected because you belong to a specific religion. Just quoting from the French literature and philosophy because it's the one I know the best. But the Dutch had great philosophers too, just like the Germans. Anyway, that's the last time I'm wasting my time in this Religion board...I'm totally secular, religion must stay at home, it takes me too much energy to fight with fanatics!!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
) I was just joking. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic