I must give advance warning that some of this material is very "frank". Remember though, we are reading what is considered good and moral religious literature by orthodox Sunni Muslims. But we will let you be the judge of that. Here are the references and quotes so you can decide.
Sex with Captives
Stripping female captives of their clothes is OK, according to Sahih Muslim vol.3 book 17 no.4345 p.953 and Ibn-i-Majah vol.4 no.2840 p.187.
After the battle of Karbala, the Muslim soldiers supporting Yazid forcibly disrobed the Muslim women supporting Husayn. al-Tabari vol.19 p.161
Sex with captives among the Bani Al-Mustaliq. Bukhari vol.9 no.506 p.372; Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2167 p.582
The fact that it was OK for Muslims to have sex with captive women is in Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3371-3374 p.732-735; Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2150 and footnote 1479 p.577-578.
"Narrated Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri that while he was sitting with Allah’s Apostle he said, ‘Oh Allah’s Apostle We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?’ [a sexual practice] The Prophet said, ‘Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it, No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence." Bukhari vol.3 no.432 p.237. See also Bukhari vol.5 book 59 no.459 p.317; vol.7 no.136-137 p.102-103; vol.8 no.600 p.391; Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2166,2168 p.582
"Abu Sai’d al-Khudri said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: [Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period.(1479)" Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2150 p.577
"After the distribution of the spoils of war a man may have intercourse with the female slave after passing one menstrual period, if she is not pregnant. If she is pregnant one should wait till she delivers the child. This is the view held by Malik, al-Shafi’i and Abu Thawr. Abu Hanifah holds that if both the husband and wife are captivated together, their marriage tie still continues; they will not be separated. According to the majority of scholars, they will be separated. Al-Awza-I maintains that their marriage tie will continue till they remain part of the spoils of war. If a man buys them, he may separate them if he desires, and cohabit with the female slave after one menstrual period. (‘Awn al-Ma’bud II.213)" Note that Mohammed married Safiyah right after the battle. Abu Dawud vol.2 footnote 1479 p.577-578.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Not thieves, not covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (KJV)
A Muslim warrior has to wait until a woman’s menstrual course is finished before having sex with her. Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2153-2154 p.578
Narrated Ibn Muhairiz : I saw Abu Sa’id and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Sa’id said, "We went with Allah’s Apostle in the Ghazwa of Bani Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the Arabs as captives and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah’s Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come into existence." Bukhari vol.3 no.718 p.432
Notice that the captives were in no way considered "wives". They were neither wives nor concubines, or they would not have seen any need to ask Mohammed about this.
In contrast to this, the Old Testament teaches that if a soldier wanted a captive woman, he had to marry her first, and only after waiting for a month in Deuteronomy 21:10-14.
Extra-marital Sex with Slave Girls
That Muslims can force captives to have sex may be a surprise not only to some westerners. Even many Muslims who are not very familiar with their own hadiths might not know that Mohammed and Muslims historically did this. It is perfectly reasonable that a Muslim would be expected not to believe this unless there was thorough evidence, so here is the thorough evidence.
"…We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captives some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have [sex] with them but by observing …. But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3571 p.732-733.
Note that in this quote these women were in no way considered "wives".
Bukhari vol.7 no.22; vol.3 no.after 436, vol.3 no.432; vol.5 no.459; vol.8 no.600 also teach it is morally acceptable to force female slaves to have sex.
"Can one travel with a slave-girl without knowing whether she is pregnant or not? Al-Hasan found no harm in her master’s kissing or fondling with her.
Ibn ‘Umar said, ‘If a slave-girl who is suitable to have sexual relations is given to somebody as a gift, or sold or manumitted [freed], her master should not have sexual intercourse with her before she gets one menstruation so as to be sure of absence of pregnancy, and there is no such necessity for a virgin.’
‘Ata said, ‘There is no harm in fondling with one’s pregnant (1) slave-girl without having sexual intercourse with her. Allah said: ‘Except with their wives and the (women captives) whom their right hands possess (for in this case they are not to be blamed).’" Footnote (1) says, "Pregnant from another man, not her present master." Bukhari vol.3 ch.113 after no.436 p.239-240. (Same ‘Ata as previous.)
"And ‘Ata disliked to look at those slave girls who used to be sold in Mecca unless he wanted to buy." Bukhari vol.8 no.246 p.162.
Mohammed was asked about sex with slave girls. - It is fine. Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3377,3383-3388 p.734-735. In contrast to this, in the Old Testament a man who had sex with a slave, and not his wife, was killed.
Sex with captives is OK. Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3371-3376 p.733; Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 no.2517 p.506
Sex with slave girls is OK. Ibn-i-Majah vol.1 no.89 p.52; vol.3 no.1920 p.158; vol.3 no.1927-1928 p.162. See also Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 no.1851 p.117.
Islam even has a special word for this: an Umm Walad (or um Walid) is a slave girl who gives birth to her master’s child. Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 footnote 1 p.257. Mariya was an um walid of Mohammed according to al-Tabari vol.13 p.58.
The child of a slave girl and her master is mentioned in Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 no.2004 p.207.
However, A Muslim slave owner cannot look at the nakedness of a slave girl if she is married to someone else. Otherwise it is OK; she does not have to be married to him, only owned by him at the time of sex. Abu Dawud vol.1 no.496 and footnote 198 p.126.
All of these quotes are available in Muslim books you can buy, so there is no real secret here. Now if you were brought up in a Muslim school, perhaps your teachers did not tell you about this part of Islam. Perhaps when you decided to follow Islam you were not told the full story, and joined Islam under false pretences.
Posts: 226 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Josh: Slave Girls and Sex with Captives in Islam
I must give advance warning that some of this material is very "frank". Remember though, we are reading what is considered good and moral religious literature by orthodox Sunni Muslims. But we will let you be the judge of that. Here are the references and quotes so you can decide.
Sex with Captives
Stripping female captives of their clothes is OK, according to Sahih Muslim vol.3 book 17 no.4345 p.953 and Ibn-i-Majah vol.4 no.2840 p.187.
After the battle of Karbala, the Muslim soldiers supporting Yazid forcibly disrobed the Muslim women supporting Husayn. al-Tabari vol.19 p.161
Sex with captives among the Bani Al-Mustaliq. Bukhari vol.9 no.506 p.372; Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2167 p.582
The fact that it was OK for Muslims to have sex with captive women is in Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3371-3374 p.732-735; Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2150 and footnote 1479 p.577-578.
"Narrated Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri that while he was sitting with Allah’s Apostle he said, ‘Oh Allah’s Apostle We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?’ [a sexual practice] The Prophet said, ‘Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it, No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence." Bukhari vol.3 no.432 p.237. See also Bukhari vol.5 book 59 no.459 p.317; vol.7 no.136-137 p.102-103; vol.8 no.600 p.391; Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2166,2168 p.582
"Abu Sai’d al-Khudri said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: [Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period.(1479)" Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2150 p.577
"After the distribution of the spoils of war a man may have intercourse with the female slave after passing one menstrual period, if she is not pregnant. If she is pregnant one should wait till she delivers the child. This is the view held by Malik, al-Shafi’i and Abu Thawr. Abu Hanifah holds that if both the husband and wife are captivated together, their marriage tie still continues; they will not be separated. According to the majority of scholars, they will be separated. Al-Awza-I maintains that their marriage tie will continue till they remain part of the spoils of war. If a man buys them, he may separate them if he desires, and cohabit with the female slave after one menstrual period. (‘Awn al-Ma’bud II.213)" Note that Mohammed married Safiyah right after the battle. Abu Dawud vol.2 footnote 1479 p.577-578.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Not thieves, not covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (KJV)
A Muslim warrior has to wait until a woman’s menstrual course is finished before having sex with her. Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2153-2154 p.578
Narrated Ibn Muhairiz : I saw Abu Sa’id and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Sa’id said, "We went with Allah’s Apostle in the Ghazwa of Bani Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the Arabs as captives and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah’s Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come into existence." Bukhari vol.3 no.718 p.432
Notice that the captives were in no way considered "wives". They were neither wives nor concubines, or they would not have seen any need to ask Mohammed about this.
In contrast to this, the Old Testament teaches that if a soldier wanted a captive woman, he had to marry her first, and only after waiting for a month in Deuteronomy 21:10-14.
Extra-marital Sex with Slave Girls
That Muslims can force captives to have sex may be a surprise not only to some westerners. Even many Muslims who are not very familiar with their own hadiths might not know that Mohammed and Muslims historically did this. It is perfectly reasonable that a Muslim would be expected not to believe this unless there was thorough evidence, so here is the thorough evidence.
"…We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captives some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have [sex] with them but by observing …. But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3571 p.732-733.
Note that in this quote these women were in no way considered "wives".
Bukhari vol.7 no.22; vol.3 no.after 436, vol.3 no.432; vol.5 no.459; vol.8 no.600 also teach it is morally acceptable to force female slaves to have sex.
"Can one travel with a slave-girl without knowing whether she is pregnant or not? Al-Hasan found no harm in her master’s kissing or fondling with her.
Ibn ‘Umar said, ‘If a slave-girl who is suitable to have sexual relations is given to somebody as a gift, or sold or manumitted [freed], her master should not have sexual intercourse with her before she gets one menstruation so as to be sure of absence of pregnancy, and there is no such necessity for a virgin.’
‘Ata said, ‘There is no harm in fondling with one’s pregnant (1) slave-girl without having sexual intercourse with her. Allah said: ‘Except with their wives and the (women captives) whom their right hands possess (for in this case they are not to be blamed).’" Footnote (1) says, "Pregnant from another man, not her present master." Bukhari vol.3 ch.113 after no.436 p.239-240. (Same ‘Ata as previous.)
"And ‘Ata disliked to look at those slave girls who used to be sold in Mecca unless he wanted to buy." Bukhari vol.8 no.246 p.162.
Mohammed was asked about sex with slave girls. - It is fine. Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3377,3383-3388 p.734-735. In contrast to this, in the Old Testament a man who had sex with a slave, and not his wife, was killed.
Sex with captives is OK. Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3371-3376 p.733; Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 no.2517 p.506
Sex with slave girls is OK. Ibn-i-Majah vol.1 no.89 p.52; vol.3 no.1920 p.158; vol.3 no.1927-1928 p.162. See also Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 no.1851 p.117.
Islam even has a special word for this: an Umm Walad (or um Walid) is a slave girl who gives birth to her master’s child. Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 footnote 1 p.257. Mariya was an um walid of Mohammed according to al-Tabari vol.13 p.58.
The child of a slave girl and her master is mentioned in Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 no.2004 p.207.
However, A Muslim slave owner cannot look at the nakedness of a slave girl if she is married to someone else. Otherwise it is OK; she does not have to be married to him, only owned by him at the time of sex. Abu Dawud vol.1 no.496 and footnote 198 p.126.
All of these quotes are available in Muslim books you can buy, so there is no real secret here. Now if you were brought up in a Muslim school, perhaps your teachers did not tell you about this part of Islam. Perhaps when you decided to follow Islam you were not told the full story, and joined Islam under false pretences.
hey qady and mr egypt, got something to say here???....not even a line??
I mean, even give it a try you know, you can't be blank in this topic dude!!! you gotta add you 2 cents to it, i know this **** is hard to answer and all but, can't just leave the forum like that gigging with sex captives and islam without a single answer...hahahaaa
Posts: 226 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
muhammad himself cannot answer you josh in this topic , i want to assure something you said in al azhar schools they stopped teaching the rules of slavery (ahkam ak req) because theyknow if they teach that 99% of students will leave islam Posts: 168 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ayman1980: muhammad himself cannot answer you josh in this topic , i want to assure something you said in al azhar schools they stopped teaching the rules of slavery (ahkam ak req) because theyknow if they teach that 99% of students will leave islam
Hey Mr.Funny! I think that you are very smart. if what you said is true about rules of slavary, thats simply because no place in the Muslim countries still have slave. but you can stll find Sex slaves in Chrestian countries, which we don't care about.
Posts: 407 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ayman1980: muhammad himself cannot answer you josh in this topic , i want to assure something you said in al azhar schools they stopped teaching the rules of slavery (ahkam ak req) because theyknow if they teach that 99% of students will leave islam
oh man, I really have to get this out of my chest, go **** yourself. no slavery in islam anymore that's why we dont need to know about its rule ya ahbal
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mr Egypt: oh man, I really have to get this out of my chest, go **** yourself. no slavery in islam anymore that's why we dont need to know about its rule ya ahbal
I suggest you go and tell this to the guys who issue fatwas like the following:
Question : At the present time, is it Halal to have a sexual intercourse with your Loundi (a female prisoner of war) without getting married to her?
Answer : Praise be to Allaah.
It is not permissible for a man to have intercourse with anyone except his wife or his female slave (concubine). A wife becomes permissible after shar’i marriage and a concubine becomes permissible to the man who owns her. She may originally be a prisoner of war, and a Muslim may obtain a concubine from the ruler or commander if he took part in fighting in jihad, or if he buys her from her owner. She becomes permissible for him by virtue of his ownership after it is established that she is not pregnant by waiting for one menstrual cycle, or until she has given birth if she is pregnant.
...
In the answers to questions no. 5707 and 12562 it states that female prisoners of war may be distributed by the commander in jihad, because he has the choice of either distributing them, or ransoming them or setting them free.
quote:Originally posted by ayman1980: muhammad himself cannot answer you josh in this topic , i want to assure something you said in al azhar schools they stopped teaching the rules of slavery (ahkam ak req) because theyknow if they teach that 99% of students will leave islam
oh man, I really have to get this out of my chest, go **** yourself. no slavery in islam anymore that's why we dont need to know about its rule ya ahbal
when you said we have no slavery now what do you mr ***** do you mean slavery is bad so why did islam permit it in its awful aspects ? for your information slavery in egypt doesnt exist any more by the help of the foreign occupation read the history to learn who cancelled slavery in egypt , not muslims ofcourse but the foreigner invadors ;)ya mutkahhalef zay muhammadak el 3abeet
Posts: 168 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ayman1980: muhammad himself cannot answer you josh in this topic , i want to assure something you said in al azhar schools they stopped teaching the rules of slavery (ahkam ak req) because theyknow if they teach that 99% of students will leave islam
oh man, I really have to get this out of my chest, go **** yourself. no slavery in islam anymore that's why we dont need to know about its rule ya ahbal
when you said we have no slavery now what do you mr ***** do you mean slavery is bad so why did islam permit it in its awful aspects ? for your information slavery in egypt doesnt exist any more by the help of the foreign occupation read the history to learn who cancelled slavery in egypt , not muslims ofcourse but the foreigner invadors ;)ya mutkahhalef zay muhammadak el 3abeet
el mutakhalef howa elly be3bod elah mat 3yrian bellebas eddakhely.
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Josh: Dalia said it all
You and Dalia can do tango together but Islam is not about what one scholar say! And Every Muslim has the right to believe what he thinks is right! You can't limit us to what few Muslims say!
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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hey how did i miss this topic ,i say very intersting .IM A SLAVE BUT A HAPPY ONE ,NO SERIOUSLY im see your point ,,it does happen ...im interested in reading more on this ..At the present time, is it Halal to have a sexual intercourse with your Loundi (a female prisoner of war) without getting married to her?
Answer : Praise be to Allaah.
It is not permissible for a man to have intercourse with anyone except his wife or his female slave (concubine). A wife becomes permissible after shar’i marriage and a concubine becomes permissible to the man who owns her. She may originally be a prisoner of war, and a Muslim may obtain a concubine from the ruler or commander if he took part in fighting in jihad, or if he buys her from her owner. She becomes permissible for him by virtue of his ownership after it is established that she is not pregnant by waiting for one menstrual cycle, or until she has given birth if she is pregnant.
my hubby just stared at that in disbelief ....
Posts: 1602 | From: the banana island shake me tweeeeeeee | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ayman1980: muhammad himself cannot answer you josh in this topic , i want to assure something you said in al azhar schools they stopped teaching the rules of slavery (ahkam ak req) because theyknow if they teach that 99% of students will leave islam
oh man, I really have to get this out of my chest, go **** yourself. no slavery in islam anymore that's why we dont need to know about its rule ya ahbal
when you said we have no slavery now what do you mr ***** do you mean slavery is bad so why did islam permit it in its awful aspects ? for your information slavery in egypt doesnt exist any more by the help of the foreign occupation read the history to learn who cancelled slavery in egypt , not muslims ofcourse but the foreigner invadors ;)ya mutkahhalef zay muhammadak el 3abeet
el mutakhalef howa elly be3bod elah mat 3yrian bellebas eddakhely.
why are you so coward and insult chritian in arabic? if you hate christian so much why do serve them in hrghadah , once you sent me pm message by mistake you shpowed me who you are
Posts: 168 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
for all who doesn't know arabic this mr egypt said the idiot who worships god dies naked with his underware he means jesus , so how idiot he is
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posted
Mr. Egypt haram alayk for insulting the Prophet Issa. Also, in Islam, while we don't believe that Issa is God or that he died on the cross, we also learn that we should have respect for people of the book. What kind of respect are you giving?
Posts: 166 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Taher: Mr. Egypt haram alayk for insulting the Prophet Issa. Also, in Islam, while we don't believe that Issa is God or that he died on the cross, we also learn that we should have respect for people of the book. What kind of respect are you giving?
where did I insulted him Taher ? please quote my words
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mr Egypt: oh man, I really have to get this out of my chest, go **** yourself. no slavery in islam anymore that's why we dont need to know about its rule ya ahbal
I suggest you go and tell this to the guys who issue fatwas like the following:
Question : At the present time, is it Halal to have a sexual intercourse with your Loundi (a female prisoner of war) without getting married to her?
Answer : Praise be to Allaah.
It is not permissible for a man to have intercourse with anyone except his wife or his female slave (concubine). A wife becomes permissible after shar’i marriage and a concubine becomes permissible to the man who owns her. She may originally be a prisoner of war, and a Muslim may obtain a concubine from the ruler or commander if he took part in fighting in jihad, or if he buys her from her owner. She becomes permissible for him by virtue of his ownership after it is established that she is not pregnant by waiting for one menstrual cycle, or until she has given birth if she is pregnant.
...
In the answers to questions no. 5707 and 12562 it states that female prisoners of war may be distributed by the commander in jihad, because he has the choice of either distributing them, or ransoming them or setting them free.
Thanks Dalia for the very valuable information but isn't all what you said considred concubine?
whats the CHrestianity opinion about concubine? is it allowed or not allowed in chrestianity? didn't you have many cases in the Bible talking about prophets and Kings who had concubine like King Solomon for example who had 700wives and 300 concubine acording to the Bible?
Posts: 407 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
While Slavary was Available and normal trade lets see what our prophet teaching towards them:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Whoever frees a Muslim slave, Allah will save all the parts of his body from the (Hell) Fire as he has freed the body-parts of the slave." Said bin Marjana said that he narrated that Hadith to 'Ali bin Al-Husain and he freed his slave for whom 'Abdullah bin Ja'far had offered him ten thousand Dirhams or one-thousand Dinars.
Narrated Asma' bint Abu Bakr:
The Prophet ordered us to free slaves at the time of solar eclipses.
Narrated Asma' bint Abu Bakr:
The Prophet ordered us to free slaves at the time of solar eclipses.
Narrated Abu Huraira:
On my way to the Prophet I was reciting:-- 'What a long tedious tiresome night! Nevertheless, it has saved us From the land of Kufr (disbelief).' I had a slave who ran away from me on the way. When I went to the Prophet and gave the pledge of allegiance for embracing Islam, the slave showed up while I was still with the Prophet who remarked, "O Abu Huraira! Here is your slave!" I said, "I manumit him for Allah's Sake," and so I freed him.
Narrated 'Aisha:
I bought Buraira but her masters put the condition that her Wala' would be for them. I told the Prophet about it. He said (to me), "Manumit her as her Wala' will be for the one who pays the price." So, I manumitted her. The Prophet called Buraira and gave her the option of either staying with her husband or leaving him. She said, "Even if he gave me so much money, I would not stay with him," and so she preferred her freedom to her husband.
Narrated Hisham:
My father told me that Hakim bin Hizam manumitted one-hundred slaves in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance and slaughtered one-hundred camels (and distributed them in charity). When he embraced Islam he again slaughtered one-hundred camels and manumitted one-hundred slaves. Hakim said, "I asked Allah's Apostle, 'O Allah's Apostle! What do you think about some good deeds I used to practice in the prelslamic period of ignorance regarding them as deeds of righteousness?' Allah's Apostle said, "You have embraced Islam along with all those good deeds you did."
Narrated Abu Musa:
Allah's Apostle said, "He who has a slave-girl and educates and treats her nicely and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward."
"When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share)
Posts: 407 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Taher: Mr. Egypt haram alayk for insulting the Prophet Issa. Also, in Islam, while we don't believe that Issa is God or that he died on the cross, we also learn that we should have respect for people of the book. What kind of respect are you giving?
quote:Originally posted by ayman1980: for all who doesn't know arabic this mr egypt said the idiot who worships god dies naked with his underware he means jesus , so how idiot he is
wenta za3lan leh ? al dar el 3loom al, tezak 7amra!
Translate this if you can Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Josh: Dalia said it all
You and Dalia can do tango together but Islam is not about what one scholar say!
I think it's quite obvious to everyone who's been reading my posts for a while that I don't think Islam is about what one scholar says.
My point was that some members on here keep referring to the site from which I quoted as if it was the ultimate source of law which is not supposed to be questioned; yet when faced with some of the outrageous stuff on there, they stay significantly silent ...
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Josh: Dalia said it all
You and Dalia can do tango together but Islam is not about what one scholar say!
I think it's quite obvious to everyone who's been reading my posts for a while that I don't think Islam is about what one scholar says.
My point was that some members on here keep referring to the site from which I quoted as if it was the ultimate source of law which is not supposed to be questioned; yet when faced with some of the outrageous stuff on there, they stay significantly silent ...
Don't forget you have your site which you quote from most of the time, Do you want to have your thoughts limited to what this site only say?
Posts: 1539 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Lazeez: Don't forget you have your site which you quote from most of the time, Do you want to have your thoughts limited to what this site only say?
Firstly, I copy and paste from many different sources.
Secondly, if I post articles and texts from other sources I usually do so because they contain some points that reflect my own thoughts on the issue or are worth thinking about. People can decide whether they agree or disagree. I never claim that what I post is the ultimate and the only possible viewpoint or that it could not be questioned because it's coming from some *authority*.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia_06: My point was that some members on here keep referring to the site from which I quoted as if it was the ultimate source of law which is not supposed to be questioned; yet when faced with some of the outrageous stuff on there, they stay significantly silent ...
Hi Dalia!
If I was one of those members you were referrring to as frequently posting from Islam Q&A, as I do find it useful in many areas, you may also have noted that I have commented that I use it selectively. For many areas it is a useful reference, as this is one of the few fatwa sites that backs up the fatwas with information from the Qur'an and Sunnah, and also refers to the major fiqh councils rulings, rather than just being a single sheikh giving his own personal opinions. But in many areas, I do feel that it shows a limited understanding of societies other than Saudi Arabia, so I use other sites for fatwa that needs a wider world-view. I hope that explains the significant silence!
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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Frankly I don't understand the point about using the site selectively. If someone promotes stuff like the above I couldn't take his opinion on anything else seriously.
This site contains fatwas saying in unmistakable words that women are inferior to men and that God has favoured men over women, that it's recommended to circumsize girls, that homosexuals should be killed; it contains a lot of hate-filled (and slandering) stuff about *the West* and much, much more that is just awful. They also use twisted logic, weak ahadith and quotes from the Qur'an taken out of context or misinterpreted.
If I believed that what this site is representing was a picture of true Islam I would think that Islam is an ugly, intolerant, oppressive and hateful religion. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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"If I believed that what this site is representing was a picture of true Islam I would think that Islam is an ugly, intolerant, oppressive and hateful religion."
And why should we believe your version of Islam especially when your version is not supported by the Quran and the Ahadith.
We often hear many saying that we need to support Muslim moderates, not attack them ignoring, of course the fact that what people like Dalia say about Muhammad and the Quran is inaccurate, and thus unlikely to convince islamists that they are misunderstanding Islam and thus change their views. For that moderates would need to convince the Islamists, and to do that, their arguments have to hold up on Islamic grounds. But if I can see through them, the islamists can too.
I am all for moderate and reasonable Muslims, but I am not for deceivers. The moderates' presentation of non-violent, tolerant Islam should be adequate enough on Islamic grounds to convince or at least to provide competition for the jihadists' use of Islamic texts to justify violence. Most self-proclaimed moderate presentations, ignore or gloss over the uncomfortable material, instead of providing useful ways for Muslims to deal with it. That is simply not adequate.
Posts: 199 | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by mocking bird: Most self-proclaimed moderate presentations, ignore or gloss over the uncomfortable material, instead of providing useful ways for Muslims to deal with it. That is simply not adequate.
If you had seriously researched material by *modern* or reformist scholars you would not make such a statement. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Josh: However, A Muslim slave owner cannot look at the nakedness of a slave girl if she is married to someone else. Otherwise it is OK; she does not have to be married to him, only owned by him at the time of sex. Abu Dawud vol.1 no.496 and footnote 198 p.126.
at least ISlam knows how to treat even slaves!!! and gave the some self resepect - islam did not come to change your lifelstyl upsdie down - only to bring honour and moral to it!!
imgaine how slaves were treated pre-islam (another thinkg MODERN WORLD learnt from Islam) comparing these to the barbaeric eorupoean, not only not recognise women as women, imagined what they saw as slaves...
even in 21st centuray we can see how a "democratic" and "free" country like USA treats its prisoner not only raping women and small children...but men - how much more free and democratic can you get? abuse animals?
oh yes, that happpens anyway Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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not only raping women and small children...but men - how much more free and democratic can you get?
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