quote:Originally posted by Fopcian: It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house. He is the head of the household, and she is supposed to listen to him.
Obedience misconstrued
The Qur’an does not order women to slavishly obey their husbands. It says good women are qanitat (have qunut). Qunut is used for both women and men (3:17, 33:35) and non- humans (39:9, 2:117). Qunut does not refer to the obedience of a wife to a husband or of any human to another. It refers to the spirit of humility before Allah. When the verse goes on to say “if they obey you,” the Qur’an uses the term ta’a, which means for one human to follow the orders of another, referring not just to women obeying men, but men following orders as well (4:59). Ta’a is not used here in the command form for women, rather the Qur’an places a firm admonishment on the men: “If they (female) pay you heed (male)” the males commanded “not to seek a way against (the women)”. “If they obey you” does not mean that women have an obligation to slavishly obey men. Nor does it mean that if a woman disobeys, a husband can beat her. The focus is on the responsibility of men to treat women fairly, especially when women follow their suggestions.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by _Khalid_: Islam does not degrade women! My wife-to-be has tons of confidence and no problem feeling good about herself. Maybe, just maybe, western women are sick of western culture and how it turns women into sexual objects. Did you consider they may want out of such culture?
From reading your recent posts it's perfectly clear you hate Islam and come here only to stir up trouble. I pity you.
Woman who can't say no too sex,wetout convert to Islam has a serius problem Posts: 1223 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Morgan, grow the hell up. You know perfectly-well what I meant. I did not mean she slept around before becoming muslim, as she did not. Frankly, Ayesha's behaviour is none of your business, but people like you stick their nose into anything and will only learn when they feel the fires of hell.
What I meant(and you damn well know it) is that western culture turns women into sexual objects by the way the media treats them etc, not that they are forced to sleep-around.
Grow up.
Posts: 61 | From: England | Registered: May 2006
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posted
They are sexual objects in Islam as well Khalid. You guys have a little problem with your sexual image of yourselves. Fact is, we are talking about equality , not sex. Fact is, Muslims, as a rule, denigrate women. There is no place for this sick mentality in a civil society.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
horemheb, you just wont be told will you, even after many muslim women here tell you differently. I am a partner, friend, wife, confider and many other things to my husband as he is to me. I am HAPPIER than I have ever been, and my life wasnt bad before either. I am not forced to cover, i do it because I WANT TO, in fact my husband has often said 'take this off, you too hot, this is not Islam, Islam is in your heart, you dont need to be melting in this heat' but i prefer to wear the hijab, if i take it off im still as hot anyway!
No matter how many times or how many women tell you the same thing you seem to think YOU know better, how is that?? been watching CNN too much??
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Ayisha, You guys do not live in a fish bowl, the world knows how you live and how you think. that women are abused in Islam is clear to everyone in the west. Throw those Burkas away and join the women of the modern world and we'll start having different ideas about Islam.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
i dont wear a burka. You have no idea how I live.
there are statistics showing how many men beat up on thier women after a night at the pub. On the radio today there was a warning that during the World Cup domestic abuse last year had risen 40% in UK, these were not surely all muslim? There are more cases of rape, sexual abuse and child abuse in NON MUSLIM communities than there are in muslim communities. try opening your eyes and your mind and you will see the difference, but i doubt you will.
I do not want to join the women of the modern world in YOUR terms, I am a woman of the modern world in my terms and happy about it. Why should i show off my boobs, legs and belly to anyone walking down the street? I dont want to, keep your so called 'liberation' thanks, its not needed in my life, im liberated enough.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Give me a frickin break Ayisha. Why do you keep going back to sexual things. What we are talking about is freedom for women in the world. Freedom to do ANYTHING a man can do and have power in her own home. Now you know damn well Muslim women are severly repressed and restricted in the middle east. Hell, Saudi women can't even drive a car. lets stop playing these little games and deal with issues. I'll tell you this, eventually Islam has to change. They'll either liberate their women or get more foreign armies in their nations. You cannot live in the 21st century with 7th century values.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
yip.. that about sums it up... and the sooner you sort it out the sooner we can get our boys back home.
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: What we are talking about is freedom for women in the world. Freedom to do ANYTHING a man can do and have power in her own home. Now you know damn well Muslim women are severly repressed and restricted in the middle east.
So this is the reason why so many women revert to Islam
So how exactly are you backing you arguement, that Islam takes womens rights away, and yet so many are converting Someone is living in denial, so how about that trip to Greenland?
Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
not many are converting...I have never known a single woman that converted to islam. You have a few low self esteem women who get involved with these Muslim men and covert. We had the same thing in the 70's when we had many iranian students here.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
or in other words... im off to bury my head in some middle east sand!!
you want it all ways dont you. expect us to come over there and be like you... yet you think you are coming over here and spreading islam...
its bullshit... your coming here for your own personal gains... which is very western... and you love the culture, so you adopt it.
why are so many muslim women adopting western culture????
soooooooooooooooo many more than are converting to islam!!!!!!!!
and the more immigrants we get........ the more islam dies!!!!!!!!!!!
and the more westeners sell up and leave this immigrant riddled country for the cheap middle eastern, hark back to colonial type countries... the more islam dies!!!!!!!
you cannot win!!!!!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I have stated this before, and will do so again..
Islam did not come to replace any nation or culture or tradition.
it only came to bring civilzation, law and order.
pre-islamic times men use to marrry 100 of women, sisters and mothers at same times
islam limted to this only 4, and not to marry families.
pre-islam times no care for the poors
islam made it a duty
many many things use to happen, that islam cam to "fix"
you can see islam as a "fix on" to ant culture, anywhere inthe world , even the western world...(explain why so many people adopt it)
i mean for example, the daily 5 prayers can be carried out in normal 5-9 work day.
dont see islam as another civilzation, a new tradition - its simply an upgrade to any society, and that is why it is so popular - even its "ancient" practices and rules can be adopted today - thjat is becuase islam is the one and only true religion
what other religion can compare?
i can be a westerner/american/japanese/arab/indian/african and still have this "add on" or "upgrade" to Islam in my life, without changing my exisiting culture....
Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: Give me a frickin break Ayisha. Why do you keep going back to sexual things. What we are talking about is freedom for women in the world. Freedom to do ANYTHING a man can do and have power in her own home. Now you know damn well Muslim women are severly repressed and restricted in the middle east. Hell, Saudi women can't even drive a car. lets stop playing these little games and deal with issues. I'll tell you this, eventually Islam has to change. They'll either liberate their women or get more foreign armies in their nations. You cannot live in the 21st century with 7th century values.
oh we are talking CULTURE not religion!! I see now!! im not in Saudi, I own my own house, I own and drive my own car and i am Muslim! I am free to do anything I want, am not repressed or restricted and I have full power in my own home. So how am I still in the 7th century?
What YOU have decided is ISLAM is actually CULTURE they are 2 totally different things!
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: not many are converting...I have never known a single woman that converted to islam. You have a few low self esteem women who get involved with these Muslim men and covert. We had the same thing in the 70's when we had many iranian students here.
well meet one here!!!
AND I reverted 2 years before I even met my husband! with No MALE help at all, and im not the only one, there are thousands!!
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
wish i had read debts posts before i opened my mouth
well said
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
To compare what is going on in the world TODAY with the dark ages 600 years ago is to admit that the Muslim religion is mired in the Middle Ages. do you even consider for a moment that maybe the Islamic model needs not only a touch up, but a complete makeover? Honestly, I cannot think of a single teeny tiny issue where the Islamic model should be considered seriously in the modern world.
Islamic republics are by their nature firmly mired in the middle ages, and practice middle age law (Shariah) as it is so firmly embedded in their religion it seems impossible to separate the two. Unless Islam globally can accept that living according to Shariah law is a part of the religion and therefore should be between and individual and his/her God, the intolerance and hatred will not go away. Islam seems unable to accept any situation that does not impose their law on all who live in the country, Muslim or not- this is unacceptable.
Posts: 199 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
mocking, its seems to me thats its YOU that is intollerant, not the Muslims here. You are intollerant of Islam. islam does not need or want a 'make over' thank you very much for your concern though, if we need dressing up we will ASK.
As for you not being able to consider the islamic model in your modern world, then dont.
Do you comply with laws of countries you live in and visit? so you will be expected to abide by the laws of a Muslim country if you visit there would you not? Laws are imposed in all countries, residents and visitors have to abide by the laws. You would expect visitors to YOUR country to abide by the laws wouldnt you? so why is that unacceptable??
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
The original post really is BS. Come on people, use logical thinking and reasoning before posting such things. Religion is your RIGHT, but it is not your RIGHT to slander. Anyway......
Posts: 177 | From: Alexandria,Egypt / Missouri,USA | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam: I have stated this before, and will do so again..
Islam did not come to replace any nation or culture or tradition.
it only came to bring civilzation, law and order.
pre-islamic times men use to marrry 100 of women, sisters and mothers at same times
islam limted to this only 4, and not to marry families.
pre-islam times no care for the poors
islam made it a duty
many many things use to happen, that islam cam to "fix"
you can see islam as a "fix on" to ant culture, anywhere inthe world , even the western world...(explain why so many people adopt it)
i mean for example, the daily 5 prayers can be carried out in normal 5-9 work day.
dont see islam as another civilzation, a new tradition - its simply an upgrade to any society, and that is why it is so popular - even its "ancient" practices and rules can be adopted today - thjat is becuase islam is the one and only true religion
what other religion can compare?
i can be a westerner/american/japanese/arab/indian/african and still have this "add on" or "upgrade" to Islam in my life, without changing my exisiting culture....
maybe... but we fix it wetout ISLAM
an we do better than any muslim country Posts: 1223 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: i dont wear a burka. You have no idea how I live.
there are statistics showing how many men beat up on thier women after a night at the pub. On the radio today there was a warning that during the World Cup domestic abuse last year had risen 40% in UK, these were not surely all muslim? There are more cases of rape, sexual abuse and child abuse in NON MUSLIM communities than there are in muslim communities. try opening your eyes and your mind and you will see the difference, but i doubt you will.
I do not want to join the women of the modern world in YOUR terms, I am a woman of the modern world in my terms and happy about it. Why should i show off my boobs, legs and belly to anyone walking down the street? I dont want to, keep your so called 'liberation' thanks, its not needed in my life, im liberated enough.
Crap the crimerate among muslim in EU are 70% don't lie ..
why, you don't show your self of now, is beacourse you are old and... get real, always so so naiv
Posts: 1223 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2005
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-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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