posted
egyptian batman are you publishing your ignorance online??? I think other educated moslems do not wanna have to deal with someone with this ignorance,
in the christianity god do not have a wife, the holy spirit and the god and the son they are all one god they call it the trinity,, go check it up in your encyclopedia.
as for the jews, they never called him miserly i dont know where the hell you get this words from what theys ay is "baroukha ta adonai eloheno melekh ha 3olam" and that means bless god the king of the whole word... or something in that sence...
I hope egypt wont have so much uneducated and misinformed people such as you...
god help us all
-------------------- Always remembering that we are nothing without His Merciful hand over us. Posts: 284 | From: gods heaven | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
yes, batman, God is one for all, didnt you know that? so maybe read bible after quran.. and torah also... it will take you so much time to come back here with better knowledge in that topic... salam
Posts: 119 | From: Poland, US, Egypt, Australia... anywhere | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ispy: u a bad muslim ....forget your ramling
i hate when people say stuff like this . who are any of us to judge whether someone is a bad buddist or christian or jew or muslim or athiest (ok, that last one was a joke). isn't that job up to God ?? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
nOW, I WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW DID chrstian oppose this holy message : when they add the wife and the son to the one God then they worship 3 gods.
OPEN YOUR HEART TO THIS TRUTH,PLZ. YOU MAY KNOW THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME OF YO9UR LIFE
WHO INVENTED the Trinity?
The three monotheistic religions - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - all purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. Known as tawhid in Islam, this concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a Biblical passage known as the "Shema" or the Jewish creed of faith: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4)
It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said: "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)
Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again: "And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)
Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and without the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - in one divine being.
If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:
"...we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one... they are not three gods, but one God... the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal... he therefore that will be save must thus think of the Trinity..." (excerpts from the Athanasian Creed)
Let's put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father + one person, God the Son + one person, God the Holy Ghost = one person, God the What? Is this English or is this gibberish?
It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.
How did such a confusing doctrine get its start?
Trinity in the Bible
References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.
In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While the "Great Commission" does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text - that is, not the actual words of Jesus - as can be seen by two factors:
1. Baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and 2. The "Great Commission" found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost - see Mark 16:15.
The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the Epistle of I John 5:7, Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted that the phrase "...there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" is definitely a "later addition" to Biblical test, and it is not found in any of today's versions of the Bible.
It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.
The Doctrine Takes Shape
While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, that of the Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a "divine Son." After all, a Son does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God's revelations to man? In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church people who put the matter together.
Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father. A Formal Doctrine is Drawn Up
When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two church men from Alexandria - Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop - Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.
Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize that a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation failed to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical council in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.
Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was now seen as having three essences, or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Church Puts Its Foot Down
The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being signed; "Arianism" became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who did not hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.
It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.
Debate Continues
Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even today.
The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than "I believe it because I was told to do so." It is explained away as "mystery" - yet the Bible says in I Corinthians 14:33 that "... God is not the author of confusion..."
The Unitarian denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: "...Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve." (Luke 4:8)
Islam and the Matter of the Trinity
While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is not the case in Islam.
"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no god except One God." (Qur'an 5:73) It is worth noting that the Arabic language Bible uses the name "Allah" as the name of God.
Suzanne Haneef, in her book WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she says, "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184)
Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three separate entities - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.
Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity - God being Three-in-One - is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.
This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn, accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Qur'an sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title "Mother of God" by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verse in the Qur'an (5:116) most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Qur'an as a "member" of the Trinity, is simply not true.
While the Qur'an does condemn both trinitarianism (the Qur'an 4:17) and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary (the Qur'an 5:116), nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Qur'an is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.
In conclusion, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of divine beings has no place in monotheism. In the Qur'an, God's Final Revelations to mankind, we find His stand quite clearly stated in a number of eloquent passages:
"...your God is One God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner." (Qur'an 18:110)
"...take not, with God, another object of worship, lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected." (Qur'an 17:39)
...Because, as God tells us over and over again in a Message that is echoed throughout All His Revealed Scriptures:
"...I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore, serve Me (and no other)..." (Qur'an 21:92)
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by crazyone: egyptian batman are you publishing your ignorance online??? I think other educated moslems do not wanna have to deal with someone with this ignorance,
in the christianity god do not have a wife, the holy spirit and the god and the son they are all one god they call it the trinity,, go check it up in your encyclopedia.
as for the jews, they never called him miserly i dont know where the hell you get this words from what theys ay is "baroukha ta adonai eloheno melekh ha 3olam" and that means bless god the king of the whole word... or something in that sence...
I hope egypt wont have so much uneducated and misinformed people such as you...
god help us all
DO U THINK PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE SOME ONE WITH A NAME"crazyone'?
STOP ATTACKING PEOPLE OF IGNORANCE WITHOUT RIGHT EVIDENCE. EVEN YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE SAY I'M WRONG, U CANT CALL ME IGNORANT.
quote:Originally posted by ispy: u a bad muslim ....forget your ramling
SMUCKKER REPLIED TO YOU Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey E_B, is all this liberal thinking starting to make you question your religion?
What you worship isn't important. How you treat people and and other things is what matters. If you believe you will be judged, what else is there to be judged on?
Posts: 177 | From: London | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
why you hate other ppl batman?... gentle_giant, noone knows why he is so much engaged in proving this to all here... we all know main rules of three main religions and by these rules we all are obliged to show others respect... but it seems he wants to be over it... seems he hates even the thought of different believers... he just like to quote others and show others opinions, which is easy way to do... better leave him where he is... maybe one day he will understand english better enough to see the difference. salam
Posts: 119 | From: Poland, US, Egypt, Australia... anywhere | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by gentle_giant: Hey E_B, is all this liberal thinking starting to make you question your religion?
What you worship isn't important. How you treat people and and other things is what matters. If you believe you will be judged, what else is there to be judged on?
knowing what i worship is absolutely important.
this is the difference between people who worship cows and those who worship fire and those who worship God( the one God)
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
But they believe worshiping a cow is absolutely important too. You see it doesn't matter what you believe in, as long as you know it's right in your heart, and you give it your all.
-------------------- Happiness is a choice! Posts: 177 | From: London | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
muslimman , I DONT HATE ANY ONE IF I DO HATE ANY ONE, I WILL NOT EXPLIAN THIS STUFF TO THEM
I LOVE ALL PEOPLE AND I DO LIKE THEM THE SUCCESS BY ENTERING THE PARADISE
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
You know what is funny? That the "Crazyone" has more sense than E. Batman(maybe the name "Batman" should have helped me to figure it out). Dude, I don't got the time now, but I can answer your thesis if you want me too........
By the way, you still haven't told me why Muhammad abrogates versus in the Koran.......Remember Surah 2? So, before Surah 2 was abrogated(Surah 2 has a verse saying, "Christians and Jews, if they do good works, will be ok on the day of Judgment".....but then in another place, it says that Islam is the only way............so why is "allah" changing his original stance? According to the Bible, book of Malachi, the Lord God DOES NOT CHANGE!Tell me, before the Verse in Surah 2 was abrogated, did that mean that Christians and Jews could go to the Muslim heaven and have 70 virgins?..........
posted
he is a sample of what fanatics represents, unfortunately in egypt. that is why all these people dye because they are misunderstood
ya rab er7am!!
-------------------- Always remembering that we are nothing without His Merciful hand over us. Posts: 284 | From: gods heaven | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
"baroukha ta adonai eloheno melekh ha 3olam" fyi... "Blessed art Thou oh Lord our G-d; King of the Universe"
Posts: 120 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by freedom seeker: I don't see any despise dine by Egybatman. He was kinda sarcastic
contradicting yourself in order to deflect responsiblity for your statements isn't "sarcasm" its "not giving a crap" about other people's beliefs.
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
I have been Christian (Catholic), but I couldnt find right way at Christian religion for myself. I was trying but I couldn`t. Finally I found my way to God -- and its Islam. I`m Muslim and I`m so happy to be Muslim, even if I dont many things about Islam still , but I`m trying to learn and one more learn them!! Even if it take a lot of times, maybe years -- I know it was my right decision!! Generally I`m feelining that I have been Muslim from long time but I didn`t know about it!! Finally Allah make me to be Muslim in real life!!
By Islam I started more understand Christian religion, and its not mean if I`m Muslim -- I should start hate people who are Christian, Catholic or Jews still!!!! No we can not hate them!!! But if we see not correct any information , not correct any discusion according to any point of the religion -- we should come and take discussion with them. We should be open for any subject and explain what is right and correct in our religions!!!
Generally I need to tell also -- most of Christians , even Catholic people ( specially in Poland ) -- they red and know -- that Islam its last religion and our Prophet Muhammed (Pease with him) its the last messenger -- but most of Christians never will say it by voice!!! I know many Catholic people who know about it but of the many years going by Catholic or Christians tradition -- they afraid to say right now -- they have been not on right side!! They afraid to loose their face!!! Its minds of the Christian people!!! And I know this all minds , because I have been Catholic, but one day Allah make me to open my mind and I had power to say I was wrong and choose the right way in my new life!! So I have question to you ::: Do you hate me right now?????? I will be waiting for your answer, Salam, Salima
Posts: 66 | From: Poland - Warsaw | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
OF COURSE GOD IS THE ONE FOR ALL PEOPLE IN WHOLE WORLD -- but we need choose correct way to the GOD!!! GOD -- ALLAH - any name of mercy person -- its not matter which language we will use -- but we need to live by correct way and everything what we are doing should be first for the GOD - ALLAH!
Do you agree with me?
Posts: 66 | From: Poland - Warsaw | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic