quote:Originally posted by caterpillar: Albino-eskimo I'm not sure how the topic got onto 'self hating reverts' whats all that about?, why are reverts being targetted here or am i misunderstanding? was this man a revert?
Albino jumped on M man's bandwagon on their revert hating crusade.. I already said what I think of M Man, however I have yet to understand Albino's problem with reverts... she isn't even a muslim.. wonder if she hates those "scary" bible bashing born again Christians as much
You haven't read alot of my posts have you?
You won't understand my contempt for reverts because you really imagine yourself as being the answer to Islam's problems. Or more appropriately worded, "Muslim societal ills".
Why do you think its your job to straighten the born Muslims out? Why do you consider yourself a better Muslim?
And why on earth aren't born Muslims openly vocalizing (or typing) their disguist?
Possibly because so many Quran thumping reverts out to be the "religious police" in a matter of time fall off the bandwagon and go back to their prior faith?
I have seen this personally. A woman, a Southern Baptist wore everyone down with her torrental wrath of judgment. She lost her friends and was almost completely disowned by her family, banned by her church.....
Then she found the Prophet Mohamed, and started working over the born Muslims. When she was done doing the same with them, she became a Latter Day Saints Christian and started a new cycle. Luckily she managed to get married during this outpouring of her wrath. And didn't have the time and energy anymore to make everyone suffer her presence.
Give it time....
Sonomod... I will tell you this... don't get your knickers in a twist! I was winding you up with my posts to YOU ... in no way do I see reverts superior to born muslims. We are all Muslims. I will not have a serious conversation with you on this, because until now... I don't know what your problem is. You come here spouting off about reverts and finally.. do you even know what if feels like or means to be a muslim? I saw you in one thread speaking about Islam only being in your heart?! Are all your judgements based on one woman who is faith hopping? Or maybe you feel threatened because the seats in your church are getting cold? Collection tin getting light?
Last for you sono... the only answer to Islam's problems are muslims themselves. MUSLIMS sono...
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sharonstone: So now this topic is not actually about friends, but about religion.
Sharon,
It was always about religion. But you can see now that the author way off with regards to friends in Islam vs friends in the west. As you see.. Muslims spend more time fighting each other, rather than making peace. I have had more constructive discussions with NON muslims who despite having opposing beliefs to me, are willing not to generalise based on isolated cases and if they do, are willing to accept they could be wrong. From this Alhamdulillah I HOPE I help to increase the numbers of NON muslims who have a better understanding of Islam.. small scale.. but something. I am also responsible for this debate that has happened here, purely because I will not stand by and let people put down something that was a big step for me and for all the other muslims that reverted. Some people have absolutely no idea what reversion entails.
I do have my thoughts about why some people would feel threatened by reverts, but in order to post that kind of thing online would be wrong because I don't actually know these posters. I can gather some ideas from their posts in general (And these can be very eye opening), however we all know that virtual personalities are not always what they seem.
For me, I have nothing more to say ... it's a waste of time especially when you have someone like sonomod ranting on about bible bashing, muslim reverting latter day saints ... Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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I don't understand when people compare "Islam" to the west. When I reverse it to "Christianity" and the "east" it sounds very weird.
When you say "friendship in the west" is there like a book about what friendship should be like in the west which can be taken as the standard by which we can tell what's western like friendship and what's not? Because later you seem to compare it with Islamic principles of friendship which in my opinion is ideal for all Muslims and non Muslims.
In my opinion, different forms of friendship exist within any community no matter what their religion or cultural background is, because the thing which motivate it and makes it grows comes from within us, and everyone can do it.
Posts: 37 | Registered: Oct 2006
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What a sad discussion. I have only just had time to read it now and glad that I haven't seen it before. There are good and bad Muslims among those who were born into Muslim families and among those who have come to Islam from other backgrounds, and among those in the East and those in the West; no one group is superior over the other. There are many different groups within Islam with many different understandings of what "True Islam" is; everybody it seems to want to claim to have "the Answer" or be following Islam in "the Correct Way". The correct ones are those who are most pious, and Allah is the only Judge of that.
There are a few basic Pillars to Islam and if you adhere to them you are a Muslim, and all that is asked of anyone is that they try to follow Islam to the best of their capacity according to the best understanding of the religion that they can find.
If people ask for advice or want a discussion we should do so to the best of our knowledge and with the best akhlaq (manners). "Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided." (Surah Al-Nahl, 16:125). All this criticism and one-upmanship does is create division and not unity and makes Satan rub his hands in delight: "And tell My servants to say that which is best. Indeed Satan induces [dissension] among them. Indeed, Satan is ever, to mankind, a clear enemy" (Surah Al-Isra', 17:53)
Please can a truce be called, particularly as this is Ramadan, and all this pride be put aside in thinking that any of us has the whole right answer. None of us are perfect and we should all be trying to work out how to improve ourselves rather than criticizing other Muslim's practice of their religion, that way we might all gain some benefit.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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i disagree that its a sad discussion, it drifted onto reverts...by a statement muslimman made to illustrate a point and some people with a chip on their shoulder got a bit carried away revert bashing...but hey, its no biggie...as they say, you always get one, ok a few in this case! MIDO you are absolutely right and there should be no comparision between general attitudes about social relationships in the west and the guidelines layed out by islam... However... I had to point out that this sort of thing is banded around, comparing this to that with no justification whatsoever! but it happens and sadly, for me, my friend (ex-friend now i supose) shares this mans views, which shocked me and i am glad that the overall concensus here is that of mine that the article is completely ludicrous!
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by NotSleeplessInCairo:
"I am also responsible for this debate that has happened here, purely because I will not stand by and let people put down something that was a big step for me and for all the other muslims that reverted. Some people have absolutely no idea what reversion entails."
Why do you feel responsible for our talks? Shall muslims feel responsible for the whole world and try to make it repaired by their own hands?
Yes, ppl here have the idea what reversion entails, because some of us here are also reverts - just to remind you if you havent read other posts carefully. You are not alone revert here, so dont make yourself a victim. There was noone who was attacking you personally or other reverts in general, its only your interpretation of what we said here. Giving samples is not forbidden. It is not to depreciate someone and make him bad human.. it is just to show the behaviour that shall not be copied by others. Did i say they are stupid or bad? I talked only about behaviour of some of them only...
"I do have my thoughts about why some people would feel threatened by reverts, but in order to post that kind of thing online would be wrong because I don't actually know these posters. I can gather some ideas from their posts in general (And these can be very eye opening), however we all know that virtual personalities are not always what they seem."
Yes, you can be also a virtual personality, dont you? You are welcome to share with us here your eye opening ideas why some ppl can be threatened by reverts and what they feel, why not? It could be an interesting topic
We are here to talk about all things that are around us, that make us angry, interested or bored, confused or happy etc. - and I dont understand why we cant talk about things we see and feel and experience in our lifes? I think as caterpillar said, we are all kind of friends here and we try to help each other in different situations and with different problems. Sometimes we are getting angry on some of us here, but ...from my experience when im getting angry on someone saying sth, it means that inside me there is a problem to be solved... why, because its not someone that is making you angry, its you who allow to get angry. you chose that feeling because of...? and usually finding the reason for anger feeling helps in understanding others.
"For me, I have nothing more to say ... "
nice so lets go in peace without anger. Ramadam mubarak Salam
Posts: 119 | From: Poland, US, Egypt, Australia... anywhere | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: What a sad discussion. I have only just had time to read it now and glad that I haven't seen it before. There are good and bad Muslims among those who were born into Muslim families and among those who have come to Islam from other backgrounds, and among those in the East and those in the West; no one group is superior over the other. There are many different groups within Islam with many different understandings of what "True Islam" is; everybody it seems to want to claim to have "the Answer" or be following Islam in "the Correct Way". The correct ones are those who are most pious, and Allah is the only Judge of that.
There are a few basic Pillars to Islam and if you adhere to them you are a Muslim, and all that is asked of anyone is that they try to follow Islam to the best of their capacity according to the best understanding of the religion that they can find.
If people ask for advice or want a discussion we should do so to the best of our knowledge and with the best akhlaq (manners). "Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided." (Surah Al-Nahl, 16:125). All this criticism and one-upmanship does is create division and not unity and makes Satan rub his hands in delight: "And tell My servants to say that which is best. Indeed Satan induces [dissension] among them. Indeed, Satan is ever, to mankind, a clear enemy" (Surah Al-Isra', 17:53)
Please can a truce be called, particularly as this is Ramadan, and all this pride be put aside in thinking that any of us has the whole right answer. None of us are perfect and we should all be trying to work out how to improve ourselves rather than criticizing other Muslim's practice of their religion, that way we might all gain some benefit.
Thank you Newcomer for coming in with a voice of reason and truth. You are completely right in what you say. Thank you also for the Ayats that you posted... very relevant to this discussion
Ramadan Mubarak
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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SAlaam all. Firsty i want to say ramamdan mubarak and i hope to find u all in the best of health and imaan.
I am caterpillars 'friend' and decided to post as im being slagged off left right and centre. Yes i did post that message on my website but to be honest i had not read it properly. i was in a rush to post stuff on the site as i had just started it and as it was in my inbox i assumed it was ok as normally i delete rubbish. yes it was my mistake as i now u should read and check stuff before u post.
All caterpillar had to do was say she was not happy with that post and i would have checked it out. but she comes in all guns blazing and starts saying im not her friend for posting it blah blah blah. and saying it upset her. for crying out loud get a grip. theres loads of stuff about muslims out there and i dont sit and cry everytime there is something i dont agree with.
i was chilled out by her first message even though it was really nasty but when i read her slagging me off on here i flipped. i am after all only human.
i resent the implication i am a bad muslim and for your information my best friend is a white christian who i rely on for anything. i hardly had any muslim friends until i went to university and out of them i am only in touch with one. i also resent the implication that pakistani muslims are the worst. i have friends from all religions, hindu, sikh, christian and i resent caterpillars attitude. It is people like her that make me think that maybe the guy who wrote that article is right. she comes on here saying im wrong but does not tell u all of her initial attitude towards me.
i admit that post was wrong and now that i have read it fully it is deleted from my site. All she had to do was be civil. but to bring my family into it i will not forget. Would u stand for someone saying they will sleep with ur husband, brother and father. that is downright disrespectful and i cannot believe u are all ok wiith her saying that.
May Allah forgive me if i have said anything out of place.
InshAllah i hope the rest of ramamdan passes well for u all and as i wont be coming back as i only wanted to clear my name i hope u all have a good Eid.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2006
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ohhh I hope Catepillar doesn't take it personally, we all love her truthfully, we were debating the writer not she who posted it....Catepillar is cool, no worries Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by NotSleeplessInCairo: Sonomod... I will tell you this... don't get your knickers in a twist! I was winding you up with my posts to YOU ... in no way do I see reverts superior to born muslims. We are all Muslims. I will not have a serious conversation with you on this, because until now... I don't know what your problem is. You come here spouting off about reverts and finally.. do you even know what if feels like or means to be a muslim? I saw you in one thread speaking about Islam only being in your heart?! Are all your judgements based on one woman who is faith hopping? Or maybe you feel threatened because the seats in your church are getting cold? Collection tin getting light?
Last for you sono... the only answer to Islam's problems are muslims themselves. MUSLIMS sono...
New username, old poster... here we go.
I actually have met a number of women who reverted to Islam and after 9-11 went back to their prior faith. Also a number of Muslim based chat forums are now being exposed to alot of anti-Muslim bias from former reverts themselves.
I have also seen a certain "African Zion Jews for Christ Church" whatever that means grow 8 folds. Somehow instead of the normal 6 dwebs handing out flyers downtown their sidewalk staff has grown to 20 and now physically harrassing Somali Muslimahs in public. But these harrassers are dressed like "Saladeen" Muslim Arab warrior garb. Most of that wacked out church are former Black Muslims. Right now the FBI is investigating them for race-based crimes.
But for me it isn't about collection plates or empty pews. But your emphasis on this fantasy goal of yours won't work. I know many new reverts envision wiping out Christian communities world wide and that is a vision that warms their empty hearts.
No right now in the USA Church membership, let alone actual church attendance is up 4 folds since 9-11. Which may or may not be a good thing.
And the church I attend has built a steeple with bells, added on a primary school for 80 students, a fourth of which are Muslim children. Also a special diet that is Halal is prepare in seperate cooking utensils. And for that a special prayer room has been added for these kids so they can pray at school. I don't think I have ever heard of an Islamic school adding in a prayer room for Christians. But that is one of the reasons why I stay ardentually Lutheran.
I can't understand why every revert I run into hates Christians, hates Christ and wants every church destroyed. While so many churches and synagouges are reaching out to Muslims and Mosques right and left to build a peaceful co-existance. Which born Muslims are responding to in masse, really a wonderful benefit for all three faiths. Its only the western reverts that want war and annomosity between the three faiths. How can becoming a Muslim build such a large resevior of hate?
In addition to Muslims in the Middle East (not SE Asia, due to the natural disasters and American aid the same complex doesn't exist for them) see only the US State Department's foreign policy to the Middle East (not that they acknowledge or consider that the US State Department has foreign policies to other regions of the world, only the Middle East policy matters to them ) Why are they so darn self-centered? Why can't they see that the US State Department doesn't dictate how private US citizens interact with each other? Just because the US State Department has a policy of this manner to the Middle East doesn't mean private US citizens can't co-exist with people of diverse backgrounds in peace on our own US soil!
Which that last paragraph above is why I won't marry again unless they dude has spent at least a decade in the USA to see that co-existance is possible and that the USA has achieved co-existance in a manner that cannot be duplicated anywhere else. But its a shame we don't have a foreign policy to the Middle East to match our coexistance within our own country.
Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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im not answer for many reverts im my self not of a revert ,''ITHN''BUT WHY THEN NEED TO HATE JESUS IS OR WUD BE BEYOND ME WHEN JESUS IS GOING TO BE THE ONE TO COME FOR US ..and save us ..so that i wud find deplorabel ,i think then they shud read up on the quran again ...im dont know of reverts here that hate jesus ....
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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InshAllah i hope the rest of ramamdan passes well for u all and as i wont be coming back as i only wanted to clear my name i hope u all have a good Eid.
Annoyed!
Thank you for your explanation! And it's good to see how you reacted well towards correcting any misunderstanding. I only hope what's personal should stay personal and not be shown for all to see and judge. Your problems with Caterpillar should not be the concern of anyone here but you both.
posted
Annoyed.... So now you are lying? I did not go at you all guns blazing!, I messaged you and told you i was hurt and upset by it, im sorry if you would not have been hurt or upset by something i wrote but it was because i HAD considered you a friend! Firstly i told you i was hurt by it and your response to me was, 'i got it by email and agree with some of it but not all, if it offends anyone ELSE then let me know and i'l remove it' secondly i did not say i wasn't your friend, God is my witness, I told you how hurt i was. Thirdly, you posted an article that says that I (as a westerner) would sleep with my friends "girlfriend, wife, sister", i simply turned it around as YOU were saying i would do these things! as well as saying all the other negative things about westerners. Forthly I never came on here to slag you off, i came on here to get the views of other people regarding this... How can you say I was slagging you off when you were the one who posted the article in the first place, you were slagging me and the rest of the west off!!! You refer to there being lots of articles like this around, of course there are, but to post them somewhere indicates that you support the views, THAT was what upset me that YOU support it, not some guy i dont know! It is cowardly to come on here and post that I sent you a 'really nasty' message, that simply isnt true, why do you not post the message itself on here and let them judge rather than hiding behind lies. You asked me if i was 'taking the piss' with my comment and i told you 'yes-of course' but because you could not see the link between an article YOU posted and my reply you go on about me insulting your family and YOU were the one that told ME to 'p*** off' so dont come here pretending to everyone that you didnt read it and i am unreasonable and backstabbing, i never slagged you off on here, i never slagged you off anywhere to anyone, i was hurt and upset by your views, and if you didnt have those views then you should have said so, or better still you should read what you post. You are hiding behind this now because you feel guilt at the insults that you have thrown at people, it is as simple as that. You cannot go around insulting people and expect them not to be offended. AND for the record i did not say 'pakistani's are the worst' please go back and read what i said... Enough now, you keep bringing Islam, Ramadan into this, saying 'I make you laugh, trying to be muslim' this lies with you, my conscience is clear, i stuck up for what i believe in and if you felt annoyance that i quoted from the article you posted in a sarcastic way, then perhaps you should imagine how it would feel for someone from the west to read all the other insulting remarks that you posted in that article.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: ohhh I hope Catepillar doesn't take it personally, we all love her truthfully, we were debating the writer not she who posted it....Catepillar is cool, no worries
Thank you Smuckers...that is really kind... I really wish all this hadn't happened but i cant sit back while people insult my values and that of my family, friends and other westerners, i react how i do and thats it.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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InshAllah i hope the rest of ramamdan passes well for u all and as i wont be coming back as i only wanted to clear my name i hope u all have a good Eid.
Annoyed!
Thank you for your explanation! And it's good to see how you reacted well towards correcting any misunderstanding. I only hope what's personal should stay personal and not be shown for all to see and judge. Your problems with Caterpillar should not be the concern of anyone here but you both.
Hopefully this doesn't offend you
Ramadan Kareem
The reaction FYI was to tell me to 'p*** off' what was personal was actually an attack on the west, so i'm sorry but it is other peoples business. How did she react well to a misunderstanding?! what misunderstanding? she posted an article, she MUST have read it, i then highlighted that i was upset by it, she MUST have read it again but still didnt remove it... how is that a misunderstanding?! she has come on here saying happy ramadan and that makes it ok?? she has lied about how i reacted, ridiculed me for being upset by her comments and tried to make me look bad... but happy ramadan... the hypocrisy is astounding!
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote: i admit that post was wrong and now that i have read it fully it is deleted from my site.
That was what I meant by "good reaction". The rest seems to me like a public humilation exchange between both of you.
Posts: 37 | Registered: Oct 2006
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No thats not fair, i didnt bring it on here to humiliate her, none of you knew her, i brought it on here to seek opinions on the article. And it is fine for her to admit its wrong to you guys, but i was her friend she could have said that to me when i told her i was upset by it, at that time she said she agreed with some of it... anyway it doesnt matter, i am sorry if i jumped on you, this whole thing upset me and i was angry reading this today, but nevermind, i know people feel like this about the west and i will just accept that you never know who holds these views.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by caterpillar: No thats not fair, i didnt bring it on here to humiliate her, none of you knew her, i brought it on here to seek opinions on the article. And it is fine for her to admit its wrong to you guys, but i was her friend she could have said that to me when i told her i was upset by it, at that time she said she agreed with some of it... anyway it doesnt matter, i am sorry if i jumped on you, this whole thing upset me and i was angry reading this today, but nevermind, i know people feel like this about the west and i will just accept that you never know who holds these views.
oopppsss... getting annoyed caterpillar what was your initial attitude towards this lady?
Hmm.... Maybe she didnt read your post with explaining what you meant saying that? it was unfortunate expression, i admit, but you already cleared this up and got a lesson.
Why Annoyed you now critizing her? To make her feeling guilty in front of all of us? Do you really think it was necessary to make this explanation in such a way. Im sure she was not offending your family... same abt pakistani muslims, i also know some and they are really great ... she just said that mostly they are keeping together away from others... so what is a problem in that? was it an insult for you also? And as Smuckers said, we were talking abt the author of the article not abt person who sent it to caterpillar, at least not so much, some of us were just surprised that there are muslims who agree with it.
im sorry, but i dont like when ppl are using such way to clear their name by kicking off others... especially during Ramadan.
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its true you know its alienating from the rest of the islamic nation .and i ask my self WHY...who is a better judge on islam and any reverts to the faith ...ALLAH himslef ....
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I have a lot of respect for you muslimman, as i do for some others on here, with good sound opinions that can voice them without fighting, i admit i get heated in moments where i feel passionate about something and i didnt think my comment would offend that much since i was the one being told thats how i behave (being a westerner).
i will find comfort that most of the people, muslim and non muslim that posted on here have healthy attitudes towards other people, im not here to say what makes someone a good/bad muslim, i just dont like hypocrisy, not just because its difficult to spell , but because we should all have the courage to stand up for what we believe in... I will never believe stereotypical views of muslims or of westerners or of the inuits for that matter, not because there might be a lot of people that share similar views within a culture, group or society, of course they will share some common factors, but we are not all clones, we are active participants in our own lives free to conform or reject dominant discourses around us, that is the beauty of being human... God gave us a brain and a conscience and the ability to empathise so until i have met every single inuit on the planet i will not judge them. Although I hear they make really good igloos... not ALL of course! Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh u hit the bullet there caterpillar ,IGLOOS SOME PEOPLE in another area wud take that has a insult ,i wud have ..that can be very offensive more than the threads that have been posted here ..i prefarbly and will say im weary of reverts exspecially where me live there wayof thinking is so different to the other side of a muslim family born within the realms of islam ,but i must emphasise i have good friends has well and wud not change them for the world ,,,there is no doubt there, this thread cud go on and on and i dont think there cud be a end to it cus its something that is a every day accurance in from of you and you will not stop any one else saying what they feel thats the logic of freedom os thinking which sometimes can get offended into the wrong direction ,i would no close the thread personaly ,or you will go blue in the face trying to get ur thought across some dont or will not want to understand you ,,hope you are well dear sister /w/salaams and good health ..
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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chimps... good health to you to nah i will leave the thread, who can we start on next?...lol AND i will NEVER ever shut up, cos i have a big gob, so there Incidently chimps, i cant delete threads, i used to be able to but for some reason i've lost the ability... is this a sign??? maybe the world needs to hear my ramblings forever?? lol by the way what has happened to charm? where has she gone? and i never knew you lived in an igloo? lol
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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dont know im sitting here sick at the moment high blood pressure speaking from a dummy laptop in the bed looking for a birthday recipe for me mum to cook ....
i thought charm was going on holiday for awhile or shes looking after her man i dont know ..and yeah ur right u have a big gob i do too ,,,,,dont tel me u hacked ,,,i feel my heart racing up and down here .....oh well keep the tread going then ,,,god help us muslims in here
ive done some of me favorite indian clips for you on a thread in here look out for it done it yesterday and a thread on islam for aa non muslim wanting to look more into it as well pretty good it was have a look /ws
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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You are hiding behind this now because you feel guilt at the insults that you have thrown at people, it is as simple as that.
No i aint. i dont feel guilty one bit and im not gonna retaliate anymore cus like everyone is saying its ramamdan. i said my piece and now u can all carry on to ur hearts content. have fun.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2006
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We are all human and make mistakes when putting things up especially when not reading them properly, it is over muslim duty to tell eachother in a civil way why we think its wrong and to sort it out. Its a shame you ended your whole freindship and were so personal to say to your freind things about her husband and brother. Most people find that very personal. If you say it in a general sense thans its not that bad but you said to your freind that. She is from the west too if she lives in the UK remeber that, dont think you are only "west" as you are white. people born into britaoin are still british and go to school here and spend there whole life here. and please she wasnt being personal to you caterpillar, the post was about some friendships within non muslims i think. But anyway i dont agree with the west friendship thing anyway as i havent read it. But i just feels its a shame publicising your personal fight infront of everyone in Ramadan. Just remember if you hurt someones feelings it is a big sin in Islam.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2006
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and before you say she hurt my feelings by saying about the west, you are not the whole west and the thread talked about people that go out clubbing, cheating and betraying, it didnt say everyone does it in the west. I know it was generalising the west which isnt good but your freind said she would take it off and didnt read it properly. Anyway i wouldnt really come here to find out about Islam people all seem to be slagging off eachother, reverts to born muslims, pakistanis to whites, west against bristish born wests. bye
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2006
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Reverted or non-reverted islam is made on the same baseline, what is different is the society , according to where your are, in the west and the east, people understand and believe in things differently, not only this according to your own experience things like this change for example a blind man acknowledgement for his senses is different that natural man, and his acknowledgement to the bliss of seeing is different than the man whom have had it all his life, even in blind men this kind of understanding is different between each individual according to his own society and himself. I have seen some reverts whom are more muslims than some non-reverts and I have seen some born muslims whom are more muslims than some reverts. It is how you acknowledge the religion and how you can hold yourself to its rules simply a muslim is muslim just with a sentence: "Alshahada", no one would deny that you are muslim if you acknowledged this even if you don't believe it. Yes our civilization actually build our understanding of our world, and so we should be different but none is above none nor is some people below the other, we don't have races in islam .. we don't have black and white mosiques and for sure we don't have "reverts and non-reverts mosiques" we might have different shia'as mosiques but still we all are equal and we all muslim share the same love "which I don't call friendship .. it is what we call muslims brotherhood love" and that what was the original post of the thread about. what the writer described is what we call "muslim's brotherhood", it is not friendship and you won't ever understand this unless you become attached with someone with this kind of love, I don't say that the west doesn't have friendship for sure they have it, but what we have and I don't know if it is in the west, is what our muslim brotherhood love, we don't need to be friends to do this and it is more attaching a friendship when this is involved in it, let me explain more about it in this relationship we can love and try to do our best for each other even if we don't know each other, and it is not an individual thing, a truth that stunned some people, I remind I have read what the MI6 member whom have cut a piece from the black stone in mecca, I don't remember his name but his book was published in the 19th century and his story is very interesting, anyway he have wrote a two books about this and actually after the first one he had reverted to islam, in his book the man describes how he was touched by how people have treated him while he was travelling to do piligrimy "hajj", he had no supply and even no one had known him, yet he was speaking arabic fluently, but he was astonished with the intimate love and the devotion people have done to him in the name of islam. Friendship usually ends "not always" , you might still remind your friend and would like to see him, but we have a link that we believe as muslims is much greater, it is not only friendship it is more, it is like longing and praying and giving all what you have to your muslim brother, this relation ship now is not what was alike a long time ago but it still exists and I have experienced it and I have seen it, an instance that actually build the muslim starting community when "al-muhajerreen" came to madina and alanssar offered them everything that you can imagine, the offered them houses food and they cut half everything they have between them, them "muslim -brothers-" it is some kind of strange link that you don't know unless you encounter to .. which really reminds me to say to all of muslims here happy ramadan may allah bring you all the best (I don't care and no muslim care weather you are reverted or born muslim) .. Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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islam is not what is it and portrays it has lost most of its meaning people go to haj on drug money and find there families that way they go as it it was the no 1 hot spot for sunbathing they go on social security money to whis is a bigger siin and most not some dont fast or pay the fasts they miss ,i actually cannot fast for health reasons im just sent 100 pounds which is alot of money to egyot the other 100 im send to sudan ihope inshallah it does get to feed the poor im not knowany one in sudan to do this personaly for me .but in egypt my mother inlaw is feeding the poor who live in the sinai every day now until eid and inshllah they will have big feast ,but i must state tit dont stop there cause the comunity each of them any way each day feeds the poor there ,so they dont go hungry even if it is spinach or lentils only ,i have payed for them to have at least meat twice a week i do beleive there are good muslims out there i wish the ones that mock it or use it to suit there own needs or even the newley that come into islam you are or in any way different to your muslim brothers or sisters you are equal in all ways ,ramadan mubarak ,allah hafeez to all ..
but i must state that what i send is what i can afford its not exspected by all you give what you can in most cases ,here in england to make it up as well i go round to the old people do some washing for them and give them a hot meal ,i try too ...i feel im doing good and this is not a one off this is a muslim project to what we doing and this goes out to all faiths and cultures ....its called salaams !!!!!welcome
have yyou ever thought of doing something in your area ..
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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abbccd...I know you have come on here to defend your friend which is fine, I never intended to fall out with her, that was her choice. I never intended to insult her family and am sorry she has taken it that way, but when i am being told in a statement that i would behave that way, THAT was where i was coming from, probably it was in bad taste but so was the article and i did take it personally. I am not trying to represent the west, but i am from the west, i would never criticise and generalize a nation or area of the world which is what the article did. I am not going to keep on and on trying to get her or you to see where i am coming from, as someone already said people will believe what they want to believe, but people have a responsibility to READ what they post anywhere because by doing so they are representing their own views. I would not post an article from the BNP which would offend many people, to then turn round and say 'well i didnt actually read it' anyway, i am offended, she is offended, i have my view, she and you have yours, we will obviously not reach a middle ground.
Also... Yes she is from the west, but it was placing muslims outside of the generalisations...you know that.
I'm not here to argue, but i will stick up for what i believe.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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frankly ive had enough of u caterpillar...i aint got a clue who abbccd is. this reminds me of the blasted school playground which i thought i had left behind years ago. will someone please tell me how to stop messages going into my inbox cus i dont want to hear any more of this nonsense and i doont want her messages reaching me. Get over urself caterpillar cus u beginning to sound like a kid.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by MY NAME IS NO MORE .....,: islam is not what is it and portrays it has lost most of its meaning people go to haj on drug money and find there families that way they go as it it was the no 1 hot spot for sunbathing they go on social security money to whis is a bigger siin and most not some dont fast or pay the fasts they miss ,i actually cannot fast for health reasons im just sent 100 pounds which is alot of money to egyot the other 100 im send to sudan ihope inshallah it does get to feed the poor im not knowany one in sudan to do this personaly for me .but in egypt my mother inlaw is feeding the poor who live in the sinai every day now until eid and inshllah they will have big feast ,but i must state tit dont stop there cause the comunity each of them any way each day feeds the poor there ,so they dont go hungry even if it is spinach or lentils only ,i have payed for them to have at least meat twice a week i do beleive there are good muslims out there i wish the ones that mock it or use it to suit there own needs or even the newley that come into islam you are or in any way different to your muslim brothers or sisters you are equal in all ways ,ramadan mubarak ,allah hafeez to all ..
but i must state that what i send is what i can afford its not exspected by all you give what you can in most cases ,here in england to make it up as well i go round to the old people do some washing for them and give them a hot meal ,i try too ...i feel im doing good and this is not a one off this is a muslim project to what we doing and this goes out to all faiths and cultures ....its called salaams !!!!!welcome
have yyou ever thought of doing something in your area ..
Thank you, I have seen some examples in this area that really make your eyes shed, it doesn't take a lot to do this, actually whom of us doesn't have an old nieghbor whom is alone, why can't we just go and check on them and spend half an hour with them, you can't imagine what a 30 minutes means for them and will mean for you. There is almost no country with no poor people you don't know what a small amount of money for you can be for them , it can be a major help to other, as you have said people are not the same but still there are examples that is left from our culture, it is the core of our culture and believe.
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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actually on this occasion i'm speechless, there is so much i could say...but i wont. God knows the truth and that is all that matters.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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sure im ok today caterpillar hope you are tooo ,just done my hubbys dinner to break rosa ive done him FISH MASSALA '' with fried tomatoes and onions so delicious with rote (chappatti )he loves my cooking .they all ways say to man heart is there cokking ,,lol lol joking .. i feel sometimes in this thread i got this feelign who you talk off but them me cud be wrong i stil dont understand exactly what yur talking ofabout what has caused shuc a big stir ,but well opinopn is opinion im always back stabbed any way i just go with the flow now , and to
BIBO i agree with you ,as i said im send to waht i afford and i save it al the year cus i know that i cant fast any way so im prepared and yes it dont go out of you r way does it to go and help someone who is need of help it makes you feel your worthy and not usueless allah always said help the poor or the needy and i try to do ....it makes me happy .. chimps
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Hi caterpillar I dont know what to say, i'm just feel sad for you that you had to loose a freindship over a article that she didnt right. i read it again and i dont understand how anyone can get offended unless they do the things described ie, clubbing, back bitting, fighting over stuff, cheating etc. But I'm sure you dont so please try not to take it personal./ but again i have nothing to do with this artcile and do not agree with it, so everyone dont gang up on me. Anyway you are right some things i wont be able to understand. your friend doesnt know who i am by the way, and i hate taking sides.
Posts: 3 | Registered: Oct 2006
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Are all your judgements based on one woman who is faith hopping? Or maybe you feel threatened because the seats in your church are getting cold? Collection tin getting light? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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As you see.. Muslims spend more time fighting each other, rather than making peace. I have had more constructive discussions with NON muslims who despite having opposing beliefs to me, are willing not to generalise based on isolated cases and if they do, are willing to accept they could be wrong. From this Alhamdulillah I HOPE I help to increase the numbers of NON muslims who have a better understanding of Islam.. small scale.. but something. I am also responsible for this debate that has happened here, purely because I will not stand by and let people put down something that was a big step for me and for all the other muslims that reverted. Some people have absolutely no idea what reversion entails. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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caterpillar what was your initial attitude towards this lady?
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