quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER): it's nothing to do with living in england, it happend while she was travelling and was aske dto remove it by a B.A employee.
What i really want to know is why we don't jump and down and have a deabte about women walking half naked in the steets? Is it acceptable to walk around with everything( and in some cases literally hanging) out??
So you expect the British to completely disregard the fact that they are living in a BRITISH culture and society. You expect them to completely ERASE their culture and traditions. Like it or not, nakedness is socially acceptable in the British culture, wrapping women in burqas it is not. Show some respect for God's sake. The Niqab is not compulsory in Islam, that woman had a lot of nerve to complain over something like this.
No one expects the British to disregard they are living in a British society that accepts nakedness. It is unacceptable that British women who CHOOSE to wear burkha or hijab are treated as they are for covering thier bodies though. Not everyone in British society wants to see every other womans bits hanging out so ok dont look, that is hard when its everywhere though. The problem is, WHY cant these British naked people accept also that not everyone wants to show all they have to all and sundry passing by?
You don't have to completely cover your face to be modest. That is insane. Faces are very important faces are the index of the mind, because if you can't see somebody's face it's very hard to take them seriously and gauge their expression.
It is all right to wear a headscarf, but just to cover your face completely will inhibit you from doing a proper job like a member of parliament, or a doctor, or a nurse or an accountant, it will just give an impression that you are not equal to men when you are. The right to dress as you please is not a right if that causes me problem, leaves me at a disadvantage with other people. Then I must look at that human right which is working against me. We use our human rights which don't work against ourselves.
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER): Women in the 50's used to wear gloves, scarves, hats etc and men used to wear hats.
All i'm saying is why jump up and down about women who want to wear hijab or niqab???
I'm white, british and proud to be!!
Wotever, if you were only saying this, we would be agreeing. You take it a step further and appear to condemn mainstream British culture, focusing on what women freely choose to wear, as offensive. Your point would be much more effective if you left out the ' British people running around naked' stereotypes, often put forward by muslims.
the argument here seems to be about how the mainstream British treat the niqabi/hijabi wearing woman whether she is British or not.
The fact is just because someone is in UK, whether born here, white, black, blue with green spots on does NOT mean they have to comply with all the common dress codes of the mainstream British society. The moan about the 'naked society' is a reflex reaction on being not tollerated for a muslims choice of clothing when its ok to walk around half naked! Of course we are going to say this, why have a compliant about being covered up and not accept a complaint about nakedness?
The fact is that many choose to wear hardly anything and many choose to cover everything up, one should not complain about women covering just because they are in UK, its NOT a requirement of living here that we have a partially naked dress code is it?
Ayisha, I entirely see your point. I agree that people should be free to dress as they please (work or institutional dress codes aside) and they are, in the UK. I am not excusing rudeness to anyone. The half naked argument doesn't enhance the debate, as it appears judgemental, bordering on provocative . Do you see my point? Why not just stick to insisting that women should be free to wear whatever we like? That way everyone benefits.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Muslims who are living in secular countries shoud respect the neutralism of these countries to live under their protection otherwise it's better to live in the conservative Muslims countries who respect the modesty.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER): Women in the 50's used to wear gloves, scarves, hats etc and men used to wear hats.
All i'm saying is why jump up and down about women who want to wear hijab or niqab???
I'm white, british and proud to be!!
Wotever, if you were only saying this, we would be agreeing. You take it a step further and appear to condemn mainstream British culture, focusing on what women freely choose to wear, as offensive. Your point would be much more effective if you left out the ' British people running around naked' stereotypes, often put forward by muslims.
the argument here seems to be about how the mainstream British treat the niqabi/hijabi wearing woman whether she is British or not.
The fact is just because someone is in UK, whether born here, white, black, blue with green spots on does NOT mean they have to comply with all the common dress codes of the mainstream British society. The moan about the 'naked society' is a reflex reaction on being not tollerated for a muslims choice of clothing when its ok to walk around half naked! Of course we are going to say this, why have a compliant about being covered up and not accept a complaint about nakedness?
The fact is that many choose to wear hardly anything and many choose to cover everything up, one should not complain about women covering just because they are in UK, its NOT a requirement of living here that we have a partially naked dress code is it?
Ayisha, I entirely see your point. I agree that people should be free to dress as they please (work or institutional dress codes aside) and they are, in the UK. I am not excusing rudeness to anyone. The half naked argument doesn't enhance the debate, as it appears judgemental, bordering on provocative . Do you see my point? Why not just stick to insisting that women should be free to wear whatever we like? That way everyone benefits.
I do see your point totally, my 'half naked' expression is just that, an expression and certainly not meant to be judgemental, all I ask is that I am not judged by what I wear. I dont care if people wanna walk about in a bikini in Sainsburys sporting blue hair! in fact some of the blue hair dye is really nice I just dont like this attitude of because we are in UK we should conform to mainstream dress of belts called skirts and half my breasts showing. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Am I bovvered(WOTEVER): it's nothing to do with living in england, it happend while she was travelling and was aske dto remove it by a B.A employee.
What i really want to know is why we don't jump and down and have a deabte about women walking half naked in the steets? Is it acceptable to walk around with everything( and in some cases literally hanging) out??
So you expect the British to completely disregard the fact that they are living in a BRITISH culture and society. You expect them to completely ERASE their culture and traditions. Like it or not, nakedness is socially acceptable in the British culture, wrapping women in burqas it is not. Show some respect for God's sake. The Niqab is not compulsory in Islam, that woman had a lot of nerve to complain over something like this.
No one expects the British to disregard they are living in a British society that accepts nakedness. It is unacceptable that British women who CHOOSE to wear burkha or hijab are treated as they are for covering thier bodies though. Not everyone in British society wants to see every other womans bits hanging out so ok dont look, that is hard when its everywhere though. The problem is, WHY cant these British naked people accept also that not everyone wants to show all they have to all and sundry passing by?
You don't have to completely cover your face to be modest. That is insane. Faces are very important faces are the index of the mind, because if you can't see somebody's face it's very hard to take them seriously and gauge their expression.
It is all right to wear a headscarf, but just to cover your face completely will inhibit you from doing a proper job like a member of parliament, or a doctor, or a nurse or an accountant, it will just give an impression that you are not equal to men when you are. The right to dress as you please is not a right if that causes me problem, leaves me at a disadvantage with other people. Then I must look at that human right which is working against me. We use our human rights which don't work against ourselves.
dear cats, I partially agree! although the choices of jobs you mention would not in any way be hindered by niqab. There are doctors, nurses, accountants who wear noqab and manage to do thier jobs perfectly well, BUT a job like a teacher to primary school children I would say niqab would NOT help that in any way, apart from the fact that this is NOT a requirement (if at all) in front of children of this age. I do not see how wearing niqab makes one not equal to men, one of the points of wearing hijab/niqab is to say see me for what i can DO and not what i LOOK like.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Personally I have never seen any women walk around on the street in their bikini. We of course dress for every occasion differently. In the winter, for example, a women may cover 99% of her body, leaving out only the eyes. That is not for covering her pudendum but for protection against cold. The same woman in the summer goes to the beach and covers only her private parts. So the concept of private part is defined. She is not hiding her hair, arms and feet from the eyes of the strangers; she covers them because of cold or because of social norms. You don’t go to a business meeting with bikini. Muslim women even in the scorching heat of summer, cover their entire body and the reason is that they think all their body is private part. I have seem Muslim women covered in veil in deadly heat covered completely in veil, accompanying their husband and kids to the beach who in their shorts enjoy a great summer day. This is self inflicted torture and abuse of women's rights. Someone in this forum quoted a few women from an Islamic chat room talking when was the last time they felt breeze blowing in their hair. This is truly depressing. These poor women are really abused. But they are abused by a false belief. Only they are responsible for their own misery and suffering. They are not dressing for comfort as others do. They dress to cover the awrat, the pudendum, the shameful part and obviously they think their entire body is awrat.
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: I dont care if people wanna walk about in a bikini in Sainsburys sporting blue hair!
You mean in the summer when it's 40 Celsius hot?
and even then at the Beach? Oh the horror!
40 celsius?? in UK?? has it ever been known? maybe you didnt understand what i said. I said I dont care what anyone wears whether it be in sainsburys or on the beach or 40C or 10C. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Cats In The Craddle: Personally I have never seen any women walk around on the street in their bikini. We of course dress for every occasion differently. In the winter, for example, a women may cover 99% of her body, leaving out only the eyes. That is not for covering her pudendum but for protection against cold. The same woman in the summer goes to the beach and covers only her private parts. So the concept of private part is defined. She is not hiding her hair, arms and feet from the eyes of the strangers; she covers them because of cold or because of social norms. You don’t go to a business meeting with bikini. Muslim women even in the scorching heat of summer, cover their entire body and the reason is that they think all their body is private part. I have seem Muslim women covered in veil in deadly heat covered completely in veil, accompanying their husband and kids to the beach who in their shorts enjoy a great summer day. This is self inflicted torture and abuse of women's rights. Someone in this forum quoted a few women from an Islamic chat room talking when was the last time they felt breeze blowing in their hair. This is truly depressing. These poor women are really abused. But they are abused by a false belief. Only they are responsible for their own misery and suffering. They are not dressing for comfort as others do. They dress to cover the awrat, the pudendum, the shameful part and obviously they think their entire body is awrat.
so its ok for a British woman to cover all but her eyes against the cold in winter but its not alright for a muslim woman to cover all her body all the time? Is this just a seasonal problem you have with Muslims then and its ok how we dress only in winter but we should show more in summer? is this for our (muslim women) benefit or yours?
I dont think any part of my body is shameful at all! but I dont WANT to show it to all and sundry and thats MY choice, I am not forced to wear what I do, i choose it. In Egypt where its damn HOT its certainly better to be covered, for protection against the harmful rays of the sun and it actually is cooler, beleive it or not. I BURN badly and get headaches without it, and yes i have tried it on the advice of my husband who watched me dripping in the hight of summer and said Islam is not 'this' pointing to my hijab and said Islam is 'here' pointing to my heart. I took it off the next day but put it back on again as i could feel my brain being frazzeled even more Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Why Muslim women need to cover their entire face to show that they are modest? Only genitals are private parts. If you are a woman, a decent bikini covers your genitalia, just as a short covers a man’s genitalia. If Muslim women don’t think their entire body is extension of their vagina, why they cover it?
So as not to arouse men? First of all, arousal happens in the brain and what is hidden is more tantalizing and arouses more than what is exposed. I have visited tribes where men and women wear nothing but the paintings on their bodies. The rape among these tribes was unheard of. If you go to the beaches in non-Muslim countries you find men and women mingling in their swimming suits and watching a women in bikini is just as normal as seeing her in business suit.
Your experience is limited to Islamic world where men can’t see women as humans but as sex objects whose every body part is a fetish.
Secondly: so what? And I am now adressing the Muslim men: If the sight of a woman arouses you sexually why should the woman cover herself? This is your problem not hers. If you are a pervert and a sick man why she should live in a virtual prison and suffer all her life veiled because you are not able to control your animal instinct? If you become a danger to her then you should be put behind the bar. But if all you do is go to your room and masturbate thinking of her, jerk off until you die. Why should this be of concern to anyone?
Women's body part are her limbs. They have been created for her use and not for Muslim men to be used as fetishes and sexual objects. Keep your filth to yourself and save women from slavery.
Muslim men call their women "sisters". If they are “sisters” and if you really see them as such, why they should cover themselves from your perverted eyes? Do your sisters cover themselves from you? If not, why can’t you give the same respect and consideration to other women as you give to your sisters? Clearly you don't see other women as your sisters. You see them as sex objects. Then hypocrisy is written all over you.
The veil does not protect women! This is clear from the high rate of rape and abuse of women in Islamic countries including incest where the poor girl is killed to save the “honor” of the family. Only a fool would believe that veil protects women. Veil makes men fantasize about women and reduces them into perverts with screwed up minds. But how can you understand this? Your experience is limited. What does a worm in his cocoon know about the world?
In civilized societies if you harass a woman, even verbally or by looking at her excessively as to make her uncomfortable, like following her, irrespective of what she is wearing, you are in a big trouble. Muslims have their values wrong way up. This is like saying the shopkeeper is guilty for showing off his merchandise and tempting the shoplifter. Only Muslims can be so confused. If your mind is filthy this is not the fault of women. They should not cover themselves because you are a pervert. If she is beautiful and wants to show off her beauty, it is her right. I love to see beautiful people, and beautiful woman, the same way I love to see beautiful flowers. This does not mean I want to have sex with every beautiful woman. Why everything should be sexual? Can't you enjoy beauty for its own sake without thinking of sex?
Women are humans not sex objects. They are not ‘awrat to be covered. Only ‘awrat needs to be covered. Should a good looking man cover himself because women may find him attractive?
What would you do if a gay man finds you attractive? Would you cover yourself? Hell no! being a Muslim you probably beat that poor guy to death or shoot him. Why this double standard? Why if a gay man looks at your rear he is to be punished but if a woman shows her arms or legs she is to be punished? How much hypocrisy is enough?
Apart from the fact that covering beauty is the stupidest thing, if hijab is to cover the beauty, why ugly women are required to cover themselves? It is clear that veil is much more than covering the beauty which is in itself absurd, it is also a symbol of subjugation and control. It is to put women in “their place” and make them understand they are less than men.
Many seem to have no regards for womanhood and all they see in women is vagina. They are the perverts the ones who can’t control their sexual urges at the sight of a woman’s arm, leg or hair. I respect women as humans and do not see them as sex objects. They are people irrespective of how they want to dress. I am not constantly watching to see which part of women is exposed to get an erection! My relationship with women is normal. But many Muslim men have never had any contact with any women except with their mom. NOT very healthy!
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Cats In The Craddle: Your experience is limited to Islamic world where men can’t see women as humans but as sex objects whose every body part is a fetish.
if this is directed at me you could not be more wrong
as for other bits in your argument, how come there are more rapes and sexual abuse in NON- Islamic countries than in the 'free west'?
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Cats In The Craddle: Should a good looking man cover himself because women may find him attractive?
absolutely agree here i keep telling my husband to wear niqab all the time but then you would assume hes a terrorist Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Cats In The Craddle: Your experience is limited to Islamic world where men can’t see women as humans but as sex objects whose every body part is a fetish.
if this is directed at me you could not be more wrong
as for other bits in your argument, how come there are more rapes and sexual abuse in NON- Islamic countries than in the 'free west'?
That isn't true Ayisha. There are no reliable statistics in many muslim countries, regarding rape. You only have to read this forum to see the difficulties a woman in a predominantly muslim country has with reporting sexual harassment. The police are not trusted to deal with simple issues, never mind rape. It is entirely false to suggest otherwise. Most rape is caried out by people women know, not strangers. This pattern appears to be true world-wide, as reported by human rights organisations. Once we actually have reliable statistics from predominantly muslim countries, we will be able to use them as comparisons. Rape isn't even illegal in marriage, in most predominantly muslim countries. They are hardly bastions of equality or supportive to raped/beaten/abused women.
PS Your comment regarding mainstream British dress being micro skirts (or belts) is an exaggeration. Look around you, in the highstreet. Most women don't aspire to be Jordan or Jodie Marsh (thank goodness). To dress that way, you have to be a size 6, with shop bought breasts and a ludicrous desire for attention! Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Cats In The Craddle: Why Muslim women need to cover their entire face to show that they are modest? Only genitals are private parts. If you are a woman, a decent bikini covers your genitalia, just as a short covers a man’s genitalia. If Muslim women don’t think their entire body is extension of their vagina, why they cover it?
So as not to arouse men? First of all, arousal happens in the brain and what is hidden is more tantalizing and arouses more than what is exposed. I have visited tribes where men and women wear nothing but the paintings on their bodies. The rape among these tribes was unheard of. If you go to the beaches in non-Muslim countries you find men and women mingling in their swimming suits and watching a women in bikini is just as normal as seeing her in business suit.
Your experience is limited to Islamic world where men can’t see women as humans but as sex objects whose every body part is a fetish.
Secondly: so what? And I am now adressing the Muslim men: If the sight of a woman arouses you sexually why should the woman cover herself? This is your problem not hers. If you are a pervert and a sick man why she should live in a virtual prison and suffer all her life veiled because you are not able to control your animal instinct? If you become a danger to her then you should be put behind the bar. But if all you do is go to your room and masturbate thinking of her, jerk off until you die. Why should this be of concern to anyone?
Women's body part are her limbs. They have been created for her use and not for Muslim men to be used as fetishes and sexual objects. Keep your filth to yourself and save women from slavery.
Muslim men call their women "sisters". If they are “sisters” and if you really see them as such, why they should cover themselves from your perverted eyes? Do your sisters cover themselves from you? If not, why can’t you give the same respect and consideration to other women as you give to your sisters? Clearly you don't see other women as your sisters. You see them as sex objects. Then hypocrisy is written all over you.
The veil does not protect women! This is clear from the high rate of rape and abuse of women in Islamic countries including incest where the poor girl is killed to save the “honor” of the family. Only a fool would believe that veil protects women. Veil makes men fantasize about women and reduces them into perverts with screwed up minds. But how can you understand this? Your experience is limited. What does a worm in his cocoon know about the world?
In civilized societies if you harass a woman, even verbally or by looking at her excessively as to make her uncomfortable, like following her, irrespective of what she is wearing, you are in a big trouble. Muslims have their values wrong way up. This is like saying the shopkeeper is guilty for showing off his merchandise and tempting the shoplifter. Only Muslims can be so confused. If your mind is filthy this is not the fault of women. They should not cover themselves because you are a pervert. If she is beautiful and wants to show off her beauty, it is her right. I love to see beautiful people, and beautiful woman, the same way I love to see beautiful flowers. This does not mean I want to have sex with every beautiful woman. Why everything should be sexual? Can't you enjoy beauty for its own sake without thinking of sex?
Women are humans not sex objects. They are not ‘awrat to be covered. Only ‘awrat needs to be covered. Should a good looking man cover himself because women may find him attractive?
What would you do if a gay man finds you attractive? Would you cover yourself? Hell no! being a Muslim you probably beat that poor guy to death or shoot him. Why this double standard? Why if a gay man looks at your rear he is to be punished but if a woman shows her arms or legs she is to be punished? How much hypocrisy is enough?
Apart from the fact that covering beauty is the stupidest thing, if hijab is to cover the beauty, why ugly women are required to cover themselves? It is clear that veil is much more than covering the beauty which is in itself absurd, it is also a symbol of subjugation and control. It is to put women in “their place” and make them understand they are less than men.
Many seem to have no regards for womanhood and all they see in women is vagina. They are the perverts the ones who can’t control their sexual urges at the sight of a woman’s arm, leg or hair. I respect women as humans and do not see them as sex objects. They are people irrespective of how they want to dress. I am not constantly watching to see which part of women is exposed to get an erection! My relationship with women is normal. But many Muslim men have never had any contact with any women except with their mom. NOT very healthy!
i agree on lots of things with u,am a muslim though.
Posts: 65 | Registered: Nov 2006
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posted
I also agree with some of Cat's points. Some are exaggerated though. Surely, a tolerant society has room for all religious views (and non religious ones too)? Making an issue of the hijab or veil will only help strengthen it, as people react defensively. If we respect the right of all women to dress as they please (dress codes, aside) we have to do just that. Anything else is hypocritical.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: What you all are forgetting right now is the reason why. Why would BA ask a moslim-woman to remove her veil? British Airways planes are high risked potential targets for terroristic attacks.So, BA wants to act as safe as possible, to avoid situations like last year, when a terrorist had explosives in his shoe-soles. As a high risk potential target they HAVE to use strict safety procedures. I don`t think this has anything to do with disrespect or discrimination. Britain and British company`s are kind of main target...
The discussion about what to wear and freedom of wearing what you want without being harrased is another discussion. Would like to discuss this, but not in this case. This is just a safety-action from BA.
And that goes back to my original sarcastic question, what could she possibly be hiding in a veil that some other human isn't hiding somewhere else in *Western* clothes? The BA staff did it because they are ignorant and judgmental, period. There is no legitimate safety issue in that situation.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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As for being able to see someone's face when talking with them what about the telephone or online??? like I said b4 it was correct that the teaching assistant was sacked as she was obiously in the wrong job!!
As I said b4: Women have the right the right to walk around half naked therefore I have the right to wear hijab.
Would I remove it if asked?? NO
-------------------- Learn from the past. Live in the present. Hope for the future. Posts: 1474 | From: in my own paradise | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by loveforever: Muslims who are living in secular countries shoud respect the neutralism of these countries to live under their protection otherwise it's better to live in the conservative Muslims countries who respect the modesty.
What is *neutralism?*
In the U.S., we seem to hate every new ethnic group that crosses our borders in waves. In the 1800s and 1900s, we hated the Italians, the Irish, and the Germans. The latest large groups of immigrants are Latinos, Africans, and Muslims from whatever country. After a generation or two, everyone assimilates and everything is fine. Who goes around hating the Italians anymore?
I would *like* to think we could be a little more sophisticated in our approach to immigrant populations now, be a little more tolerant of differences. I really hope my grandchildren say one day, "who goes around hating Arabs anymore?"
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by loveforever: Muslims who are living in secular countries shoud respect the neutralism of these countries to live under their protection otherwise it's better to live in the conservative Muslims countries who respect the modesty.
What is *neutralism?*
In the U.S., we seem to hate every new ethnic group that crosses our borders in waves. In the 1800s and 1900s, we hated the Italians, the Irish, and the Germans. The latest large groups of immigrants are Latinos, Africans, and Muslims from whatever country. After a generation or two, everyone assimilates and everything is fine. Who goes around hating the Italians anymore?
I would *like* to think we could be a little more sophisticated in our approach to immigrant populations now, be a little more tolerant of differences. I really hope my grandchildren say one day, "who goes around hating Arabs anymore?"
British muslims, born in the UK, have the the right to follow any faith they choose (or none). I strongly disagree with the idea of any religion being protected by another. A secular democracy, such as the one America has or the UK's virtual secularism is the best way to protect people of all faiths and none. I absolutely agree with Tream Lefty's point on immigrants.
There was an interesting programme on Channel 4 recently. It was called something like 'How English Are You?' They took samples from eight citizens who all thought they were very English. Some had unfortunate views on people from the Middle East, Asia and Africa. It was a joy to discover that their DVA analysis indicated that they were not purely northern European and evidence suggested a mixed racial heritage. How quickly established immigrants forget the hardships of seeking a new life in a new country. Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Sahira is currently one of Berlin's most successful hip-hop artists. She raps about Islam, the Koran and life in Germany as a Muslim who wears a headscarf. Aygül Cizmecioglu reports
"I just don't get why she likes that scarf in her hair," 27-year-old Sahira raps. The Berliner of Palestinian origin has big, doe eyes and is wearing trendy jeans, a shiny top and a hijab, a tight-fitting headscarf. She is one of Berlin's most successful hip-hop artists.
Until a few years ago, Sahira wore her hair uncovered. But Sept. 11 changed all that. She was shocked that Islam was portrayed as a religion of terror and that Muslims as a whole came under suspicion. She started reading the Koran so she could make her own opinion, and she liked what she read. She was attracted to the spirituality and peaceful philosophy of this world religion – aspects which were hardly ever mentioned in the media.
She started to pray five times a day, and, in November 2003 for the first time, she went out in public wearing a headscarf. It was her own decision, as she explains in her lyrics:
"For me it means freedom. It's my head, my hair, it's me. Only my man sees me exactly as I am, (…) coz that's what I want."
Different approaches
Sahira comes from a family of eight. Her parents placed great value on education, insisting that all the children learn perfect German. The family is a good example of different approaches to Islam and to practicing religion as a whole. Some of Sahira's sisters are more religious and wear headscarves, while her mother and other sisters do not. And the fact that Sahira is a single mother is not a cause for shame for the family, but rather a reason to support her.
The singer wishes there were as much tolerance within the whole headscarf debate. It annoys her that in Germany and other parts of western Europe the headscarf is often perceived as a symbol of the oppression of women.
She said it was wrong for people, whether religious or not, to use a political platform to call for all women to remove their headscarves, as German Green party politician Ekin Deligöz recently did.
"I wouldn't want women to be told they had to wear one either. In general, I don't like the idea of such a dictatorship," Sahira said.
Respect for wearing the headscarf
Sahira, who's been making music for a decade, hasn't encountered problems wearing her headscarf in the hip-hop scene. From the start of her career, she has felt that her male colleagues respected her for her music. She wore a headscarf when she recorded a song with successful – and controversial – rap artist Bushido, and it wasn't an issue. On the contrary, she felt that she was handled with respect for having worn it. In the meantime, she can't imagine going out with her hair uncovered.
In contrast to some of her male colleagues in the rap scene, glorification of violence and machismo are strictly taboo in her work. Her lyrics, she talks about what she sees happening around her – the lack of prospects among Germany's youth, conflict between old and young and, above all, the question of roots.
Feeling at home, but not entirely
Berlin is Sahira's home, she says in her songs, but she also sees the problems that immigrants and the children of immigrants – like her – experience.
"Home for me is somewhere where I don't cause offence and I can feel myself as a whole," she said. "I dream in German, I think in German, and among Arabs I also feel pretty German, but there is a difference. It's weird that you can't really settle here completely, that you never see someone like yourself in the media."
That's why Sahira tries to be a role model for young people, whether of immigrant origin or not, and to show that a practicing Muslim can be just as emancipated and self-assured as any other woman.
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You know this is off-topic and I am not going to add to this discussion since most points that I personally agree/disagree with have been covered. But I wanted to applaud you ladies in the way you "discussed" this without figthing, name-calling, or any other abuse. This is how discussions and different view points should be spoken about!! Interesting topic..
-------------------- "And in the end, the love we take will be equal to the love we make." ~The Beatles~ Posts: 895 | From: Atlanta, GA. | Registered: Nov 2004
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well I don't know what the reason for this but this can affect there ticket selling in the middle east for sure, I don't know how is this part of the word is worth to them yet I think this should keep it discreet as they can at least in the reagion. As for women wearing hijab I wonder why doesn't anybody looks at this as an act from some woman to prove to herself that she worth more than the looks only .. She has a mind that worth and she knows that she has also other features yet she likes to use her mind to prove herself than anything else .. ain't this her right ?
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bibo1978: As for women wearing hijab I wonder why doesn't anybody looks at this as an act from some woman to prove to herself that she worth more than the looks only .. She has a mind that worth and she knows that she has also other features yet she likes to use her mind to prove herself than anything else .. ain't this her right ?
Wearing a head scarf is such a foreign concept to most Westerners; we don't understand unless we take the time to become educated about it. In addition, western women are taught different ways to prove that they are worth more than their looks. We are taught that our way of dressing is important, but since this doesn't include a head scarf, we don't usually make the connection.
I would like to think more Westerners are becoming more educated about the issue. But then stuff like this British Airways incident happens, and you have to wonder if people live under rocks. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Cats In The Craddle: I have visited tribes where men and women wear nothing but the paintings on their bodies. The rape among these tribes was unheard of.
Can you give us the name of the tribes? I have heard about one in Africa "never met them and I don't recall the name" yet what I have heard is that the AIDS perecentage in this tribe is very high dont recall an exact number but it was remarkably high ..
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bibo1978: As for women wearing hijab I wonder why doesn't anybody looks at this as an act from some woman to prove to herself that she worth more than the looks only .. She has a mind that worth and she knows that she has also other features yet she likes to use her mind to prove herself than anything else .. ain't this her right ?
Wearing a head scarf is such a foreign concept to most Westerners; we don't understand unless we take the time to become educated about it. In addition, western women are taught different ways to prove that they are worth more than their looks. We are taught that our way of dressing is important, but since this doesn't include a head scarf, we don't usually make the connection.
I would like to think more Westerners are becoming more educated about the issue. But then stuff like this British Airways incident happens, and you have to wonder if people live under rocks.
well this seems like how people behave to strange things and I guess yes we need to understand each other and learn more, eastern people and western people .. that reminds me of a verse in the quran, I would like to state it here, no offense to whom who doesn't believe in quran or islam the private appartments 13. O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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I just dont like this attitude of because we are in UK we should conform to mainstream dress of belts called skirts and half my breasts showing. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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has it ever been known? maybe you didnt understand what i said. I said I dont care what anyone wears whether it be in sainsburys or on the beach or 40C or 10C. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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