posted
I have heard this used often and sometimes in a very derogatory way towards non muslims.
I was of the understanding that this term was not derogatory, but refered to non-believers, but it appears to be used a lot for describing non muslims (inc 'people of the book')... please can someone explain the correct usage for this word.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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Technically, in Islam, this term comes from the verb kafara which means to cover something up. It literally therefore refers to someone who has heard the truth about Islam, but covers it up and does not believe in it. In this sense it means a disbeliever. However, like many terms, it depends on how it is used as to whether it is used as a purely descriptive term or whether it is used judgementally.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
As much as it is important to understand the meaning of 'Islam and Muslim' likewise it is important to understand the opposite i.e Kufr and Kaffir. There is a lot of confusion about these words and their meanings, so therefore the knowledge of their meanings in Arabic becomes even more essential. The root word of Kufr is 'kafara' which means to cover something or not to disclose something. So it refers to people who know the truth but cover it and fail to disclose it; the one who covers the truth after it has been made manifest to him; who covers the favors of Allah and opposes it. Allah says in Sura Al An'am, "They (the Jews, Quraish pagans, idolaters etc) did not estimate Allah with an estimation due to Him when they said: "Nothing did Allah send down to any human being (by inspiration)." Say (O Muhammad pbuh): "Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought, a light and a guidance to mankind which you (the Jews) have made into (separate) paper sheets, disclosing (some of it) and concealing (much). And you (believers in Allah and His Messenger pbuh) were taught (through the Qur'aan) that which neither you nor your fathers knew." Say: "Allah (sent it down)." Then leave them to play in their vain discussions." (Sura 6:91)
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posted
Thank you both...So does it refer to those not believing in God or those that dont believe in God AND Muhammad(pbuh) i.e Islam?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: I am a 'kaffir' and dam* proud of it!!!!
Live and let live...... in my opinion.
oh you BIATCH!!!!
Hey, Chimps, are you starting to stalk, harass and insult me on this board????
I'd rather meet you in person and we can exchange some more nasty jokes - hm and nothing else!!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by caterpillar: Thank you both...So does it refer to those not believing in God or those that dont believe in God AND Muhammad(pbuh) i.e Islam?
you should ask too what the punishment of Islam on the Kafir? and what about any non Muslim is he/she kafir too and deserve to be killed?
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: I am a 'kaffir' and dam* proud of it!!!!
Live and let live...... in my opinion.
Why do you label yourself by "Kaffir"? Do you realy understand the meaning? Do you read what Dalia wrote about it?
"Live and let live...... in my opinion." Actually This comment means that you don't understnad the meaning. Being Kaffir doesn't mean that you want peace to others.
Posts: 94 | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Ahmed, you as Muslim can label anyone whether it's a a person belonging to an inferior religion - in your eyes - or a non-believer (that would be me then) as you want.
Simply I don't give a crap about what you think.
And live and let live...... you can think and believe in whatever you want as long you don't hurt physically anyone with it - it's freedom of speech - but unfortunately the reality looks different for many of your folks.
Oh, BTW where did you come up with the idea that atheists don't want peace on others? It doesn't take a religion to want and pursue that.......
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Ahmed, you as Muslim can label anyone whether it's a a person belonging to an inferior religion - in your eyes - or a non-believer (that would be me then) as you want.
no
quote: Simply I don't give a crap about what you think.
Is this A good way to talk with people? where are you from?
quote: And live and let live...... you can think and believe in whatever you want as long you don't hurt physically anyone with it - it's freedom of speech - but unfortunately the reality looks different for many of your folks.
My folks? Are you stereotyping me and my folks?
quote: Oh, BTW where did you come up with the idea that atheists don't want peace on others? It doesn't take a religion to want and pursue that....
Dalia explained the meaning of Kaffir not athiest and you come to write you are kaffir and proud of it. You may want to say You are athiest not Kaffir.
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this link was good, but i'm still not entirely clear
because if it refers to 'unbelievers' then surely not all of those are gonna be mean? doing horrible anti-islam stuff??
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
First of all, the word “kafir” does not necessarily mean “infidel” as you mentioned in your question. The word “kafir” (and variations of it) is mentioned in the Qur’an in five different senses:
1. Kufr al-tawheed: to reject the belief in the Oneness of God. The Qur’an says what means:
*{As to those who reject faith (kafaru), it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe }* (Al-Baqarah 2:6)
2. Kufr al-ni`mah: to lack gratefulness to God or to people. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Therefore remember Me, I will remember you, and be thankful to Me, and do not be ungrateful to Me (la takfurun)}* (Al-Baqarah 2:152)
*{[Pharaoh] said [to Moses]: … And you did [that] deed of yours which you did, and you are one of the ungrateful (kafireen)}* (Ash-Shu`araa’ 26:18-19)
3. Kufr at-tabarri: to disown/clear oneself from. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Indeed, there is for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him when they said to their people: “Surely we are clear of you (kafarna bekom).”}* (Al-Mumtahanah 60:4)
4. Kufr al-juhud: to deny. The Qur’an says what means:
*{When there comes to them that which they [should] have recognized, they deny (kafaru) it.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:89)
5. Kufr at-taghtiyah: to hide/bury something, like planting a seed in the ground. The Qur’an says what means:
*{The likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the husbandmen/tillers (kuffar.}* (Al-Hadid 57:20)
Exegesis (tafseer) scholars decide as to which meaning of the word “kufr/kafir” is meant in a specific verse based on the context. Therefore, not every use of the root “ka fa ra” means the rejection of faith. For example, when the Prophet (peace be upon him) warned some of his companions from becoming “kuffar” after his death, he did not mean that they would become disbelievers but rather that they would become ungrateful to Allah, for the blessing of unity, when they fight each other after his death.
Regarding whether to call non-Muslims “kuffar” or not, the answer is that we should call people the names that the Qur’an gave them. In the Qur’an, you will not find a single “O disbelievers” (“Ya Kuffar”, “Ya ayuhalathina kafaru”, or “Ya ayuhal-kafirun”) other than in the following two places:
1. In Hellfire, we seek refuge in Allah from it. The Qur’an says what means:
*{[Then it will be said]: “O ye who disbelieve (Ya ayuhalathina kafaru)! Make no excuses for yourselves this day.}* (At-Tahrim 66:7)
So, it is something that is said to them by Allah Almighty or by the angels, not by us.
2. In Surat Al-Kafirun (109) that you mentioned in your question. It says what means:
*{Say [O Muhammad]: “O ye that reject faith (al-Kafirun)! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship.”}*
But this surah is addressing Prophet Muhammad and therefore must be understood in its historical context. Allah is asking Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to address a group of leaders from Makkah who offered him the following deal: That they all —including Muhammad— worship God for one year and then they all worship the idols for the next year, and so on. That is why Allah asked him to address them in this term “rejecters of faith” and to refuse to accept this kind of deal.
In the rest of the Qur’an, however, the Qur’anic style followed two principals:
1. To label certain sayings or actions to be sayings or actions of kufr (disbelief or rejection of faith), without labeling any specific group of people with that name and calling them with it. For example, the Qur’an says what means:
*{Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely God is the third [person] of the three. And there is no god but One God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve [reject]. Will they not then turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary is but a messenger; messengers before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman.}* (Al-Ma’idah 5:73-75)
2. To distinguish clearly between idol-worshippers, on one hand, and believers in God and a Script that went through a phase of corruption, on the other hand. Allah called the later group only by the name “People of the Book.” For example, the Qur’an says what means:
*{Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could turn you [people] back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. But, forgive and overlook, till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:109)
*{It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering [of the forces]. Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But the [wrath of] Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected [it], and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes [to see]!}* (Al-Hashr 59:2)
In today’s world, we should use the same term “People of the Book” with Christians and Jews, or call them Christians and Jews, if they wish to be called so, or simply call them “non-Muslims”.
As for dealing with non-Muslims, the general rule is mentioned in the verse that says what means:
*{Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of [your] religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness (birr) and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of [your] religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up [others] in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.}* (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)
And notice that the word “birr” (translated as kindness) that Allah used in this context is the same word that is used for the type of kindness that a Muslim should show his/her parents as in birr al-walidain )kindness to parents)!!
Finally, it is fair enough before labeling any person as a “rejecter of faith” to make sure that he/she is clearly aware of that faith and what it entails. In my view, most people in today’s world did not reject the message because simply they are not aware of what Islam is. This is largely due to the biased international media and to Muslims themselves falling short to present their religion properly to the world. These uninformed people, again in my view, could only fall under the verse that says what means:
*{No laden soul can bear another's load, We never punish until we have sent a messenger.}* (Al-Israa’ 17:15)
posted
excellent post newcomer, thank you very much for that, it makes much more sense and is a much more acceptable way to view the world and those in it.
this bit in particular:
"Finally, it is fair enough before labeling any person as a “rejecter of faith” to make sure that he/she is clearly aware of that faith and what it entails. In my view, most people in today’s world did not reject the message because simply they are not aware of what Islam is. This is largely due to the biased international media and to Muslims themselves falling short to present their religion properly to the world. These uninformed people, again in my view, could only fall under the verse that says what means:
*{No laden soul can bear another's load, We never punish until we have sent a messenger.}* (Al-Israa’ 17:15)"
posted
i write this because I hate the word “kaffir,” and I hate how it comes so easily to some Muslims even as it makes me flinch, and I hate that we contemptuously turn away the very same people we accuse of not understanding us, without giving them a fair chance to know who we are, without granting them credit for making the beautiful effort of shared human spirit and outreach that we ourselves as Muslims rarely make a point of with other communities. Who the hell are we to be critical then, when we accuse others of stereotyping us and disliking us and being ignorant of who we are, of the vastness of our humanity and traditions, and of what Islam in its pure beauty truly stands for? And I guess what I’m really just trying to figure out is –
When did we ourselves become so damn self-righteous and judgmental? Do not call anyone “Kafir.” Do not call anyone atheist or non-Muslim just because they don’t agree with your opinion on evolution. Respect others’ faith. Do not try to debate Islam’s “superiority” over someone’s religion. Treat Pakistani Christians/Hindus (or other minorities) with respect (replace your own country and minority here). Don’t be quick to judge anyone, whether they are Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, atheist, or of some other religion. Socialize with a diverse set of people with different backgrounds and religious beliefs. Don’t be proud of your habit of staying within your own religious circle. Don’t caricaturize other religions. If you criticize the Bible using textual analysis, be prepared to use (or at least let others use) similar tools for the Quran.
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I don't like to be called a 'kaffir' just because I do not believe in the religions Islam quote....Christians, Jews and Islam.
I believe in God, but not as in the above religions, therefore I feel insulted when Muslims call me 'kaffir'. There are much older religions that believe in one God, and to discriminate against them by name calling is very narrow minded
Posts: 290 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Exactly Valerie, and as newcomer said in his post. No one has the right to say who is 'kufr' only God.
I hate it when its used in such a bad way, i guess its just through peoples arrogance and lack of education, i'm glad i started this post because when i read what dalia had written (no offence Dalia) I hated it, because i dont feel that Islam is about knocking what others believe and segregating people, or making them sound bad. But thats just my view.
Good post chimps thanks Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by caterpillar: when i read what dalia had written (no offence Dalia) I hated it, because i dont feel that Islam is about knocking what others believe and segregating people, or making them sound bad.
Caterpillar, I totally agree with you. I think you misunderstood the text I quoted.
Did you read this part?
"If we understand Islam as more than one specific religious dispensation, instead the entire body of Allah's (swt) revelation to the cosmos, then we can say that there are those who are generically muslim who may not necessarily follow the specific sharî'ah as we know it from Prophet Muhammad (saw). The Qur'ân says that *any* (not just "Muslims") who believe in Allah (swt), believe in the concept of being held accountable for one's actions, and do good works "shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve" (Sűrah al-Baqarah 2:62; Sűrah al-Ma'idah 5:72).
The Qur'ân points to this idea of a 'meta-religion' in that it describes all of Allah's (swt) revelatory messages to humanity have been part of the one deen. Abraham (saw) was neither a "Jew" nor a "Christian" but one who submitted himself to Allah (swt).
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posted
no sorry dalia, i must admit i didnt, and i wasnt knocking you, it was more the words used in the text you quoted were written in more of a derogatory way thats all.
maybe i misunderstood, VERY possible as i find all this reading quite difficult and alot to unravel to get to clear meanings...does anyone else find that or is it just me being a thicko?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Something to Ask... O Allah! I ask You by every name that You have, that You have called Yourself by, that You have taught any of Your Creation, that You have revealed in Your Book, or that You may have kept secret with Yourself. Make the Quran the spring of my heart, the light of my breast, the dispeller of my sorrows, the eraser of my anxieties and worries.
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