posted
hello all am new here found this board by chance searching quick intro about me without much details i was born muslim, not living like one though, all my life been like this now days i don't i relate to muslims in anyway or action or teaching started searching reading alot in the 3 religions which made me more confused about every thing i do believe in god and asking my self and anyone is this not a relation between me and god?? do i need to follow something or can i just keep what i believe for my self!! * sorry for my bad english
Posts: 76 | From: Hurghada | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
welcome NlP,I know how much you are confused but searching for the truth is a way to prove you are exist and respecting your mind,it's not a shame to question our beliefs Christianity,Islam or whatever the shame is hiding our heads under the sand and follow our parent's religions without thinking if it's right or wrong.
There are many religions in our world all of them teach that their own beliefs and practices are the only true.
The main points are God and fate of people after death which differ every religion,althought there are another types relaxing themselves like Agnosticism, Animism, Atheism..etc.
so if you believe there is God created everything this is the first step in your searching after that you have to start asking why we are here,where we are going,what the God needs from us,did God commuincate with us?
what we have now claiming it's from God are Juadism,Christianty and Islam.
you said you have read and you still confused may be you are reading randomly so you may follow these steps or modify them as you like.
First step. I am advising you to start reading on Islam the last one and Muhammed's Biography to gather all claims on the previous religions.
Second step. Ask yourself is Quran words from God and Muhammed can be his messenger? to find answers start read about the revelation story of Quran and how was Muhammed acting when the revelation coming to him,then ask your self is this story true or fake?
Third step. After gathering all informations about Muhammed and Quran ask yourself is it from God or not?
Fourth step. start searching who is Jesus,why and how he came? what he said and do comparison with Muhammed too. Are the Gospels true or false,corrupted or not. why Jews didn't accept Jesus? which Story is more logic Jesus or Muhammed?
last Step. After finding answers to your questions and comparing between the three religions,you will start to decide to follow only one because they are different.
During your journey you have to ask the help of God to reveal himself to you by any sign to know him better.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I completely disagree with the above post (loveforever), I think your religion comes from the inside and the relationship between yourself and God is VERY personal. I am a christian and am now just reconfirming myself to the Anglican faith. I wandered away from the church for many years and was a non-practising christian and that is OK too. During the last year, I felt I needed the structure in my life and I make up my own mind about how I feel about God. I know he is with me, he has proven himself to me and I believe Jesus lived because of everything I have learned but the relationship between myself and God is just there, I can feel it. All the rest of the stuff is just different interpretations of people's perspective and of course, would cause confusion. Remember, you don't have to explain your religioius beliefs to anyone, they are your beliefs and very personal.
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quote:Originally posted by Sparkle16: I completely disagree with the above post (loveforever), I think your religion comes from the inside and the relationship between yourself and God is VERY personal. I am a christian and am now just reconfirming myself to the Anglican faith. I wandered away from the church for many years and was a non-practising christian and that is OK too. During the last year, I felt I needed the structure in my life and I make up my own mind about how I feel about God. I know he is with me, he has proven himself to me and I believe Jesus lived because of everything I have learned but the relationship between myself and God is just there, I can feel it. All the rest of the stuff is just different interpretations of people's perspective and of course, would cause confusion. Remember, you don't have to explain your religioius beliefs to anyone, they are your beliefs and very personal.
i agree with that....
Posts: 76 | From: Hurghada | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN EGYPT AS A MUSLIM, I AM NOW A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RELIGON. I HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH A RISEN SAVIOR( JESUS CHRIST) YOU NEED TO READ THE BIBLE. YOU WILL NOW FOR SURE THAT YOU ARE SAVED AND ON YOUR WAY TO HEAVEN. JESUS SAID " I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" JESUS DIDN'T SAY I AM ONE OF THE WAYS HE IS THE ONLY WAY. FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSOEVER BELIVETH ON HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVER LASTING LIFE.... IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT NLP EVER LASTING LIFE ???? SHOW ME THAT KIND OF ASSURANCE OF LIFE AFTER DEATH IN ANY RELIGON.. I HAVE BEEN A CHRIST FOLLOWER FOR THE PAST 10 YEAR AND I HAVE NO WORRIES ABOUT WHERE MY SOUL IS GOING AFTER I DIE....IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY IS TO BE PRESENT WITH LORD.
Posts: 2 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Mar 2007
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waelmaksoud, what a great testimony. i too have your same beliefs.thank you for sharing that. i think yiu took the words right out of my mouth Posts: 9443 | From: USA...... | Registered: Jun 2006
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Christians are following One God .if you don't understand this faith you don't have to say Christendom are wrong to justify the prophethood of Muhammed. Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by WAELMAKSOUD: I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN EGYPT AS A MUSLIM, I AM NOW A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RELIGON. I HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH A RISEN SAVIOR( JESUS CHRIST) YOU NEED TO READ THE BIBLE. YOU WILL NOW FOR SURE THAT YOU ARE SAVED AND ON YOUR WAY TO HEAVEN. JESUS SAID " I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" JESUS DIDN'T SAY I AM ONE OF THE WAYS HE IS THE ONLY WAY. FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSOEVER BELIVETH ON HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVER LASTING LIFE.... IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT NLP EVER LASTING LIFE ???? SHOW ME THAT KIND OF ASSURANCE OF LIFE AFTER DEATH IN ANY RELIGON.. I HAVE BEEN A CHRIST FOLLOWER FOR THE PAST 10 YEAR AND I HAVE NO WORRIES ABOUT WHERE MY SOUL IS GOING AFTER I DIE....IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY IS TO BE PRESENT WITH LORD.
welcome Wael,I think Islam looks like a Castle if you succeeded to escape out without the guards killing you,it will be the freedom and new birth for human,where you can enjoy living in grace and love with the true God who loves us.
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posted
I agree that religion is something that comes from within you but i also agree with parts of loveforevers post that its about searching for answers and reading around the faiths that interest you. I would go about it slightly differently though in that i would start with what i am questioning about islam or christianity or whatever and then find answers one by one.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
one question for 'for the faith' though and other christians, is:
If the way to heaven is through believing in Jesus, and Jesus is God, and muslims believe in Jesus and God, then how does that discount muslims? or is it that you're saying the only way to heaven is believing that Jesus WAS God?
also NLP you could look at some of my previous posts where i questioned christianity and aspects of Islam, you might find some answers there, people responded with useful links.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by WAELMAKSOUD: JESUS SAID " I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" JESUS DIDN'T SAY I AM ONE OF THE WAYS HE IS THE ONLY WAY.
so, if Jesus is the ONLY way, anyone born before Jesus Christ has no chance of getting to heaven? Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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From my understanding, believing the Jesus lived and died on the cross for our sins is what makes a Christian a Christian. Jesus is not god, he is the son of God and therefore if we believe in his ministry and how he died on the cross for US and our sins then we can consider ourselves Christians. Caterpillar, absolutely, I believe in educating oneself but I really believe that all the answers (for Christians) are found in the bible. It is only when you are uncertain of your beliefs, that you search for answers elsewhere and your belief comes from within. That is what faith is. Sometimes the answers are not there and you just have to have faith. Interesting topic though, lets keeps it going!
Posts: 206 | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sparkle16: OK, now I am confused. I thougth that muslims believed in the prophet Mohammed not Jesus?
No, the Qur'an asks Muslims to believe in all the prophets. In regards to Jesus, there are many verses in the Qur'an that speak about him and describe him as a prophet, his virgin birth, some of the miracles he perfomed etc.
Some verses about Jesus:
She said: 'My Lord, how can I have a son when no human has touched me?' He said: 'It is thus that God creates what He wills, when He decrees a command, He merely says to it 'Be,' and it is.' And He teaches him the Scripture and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Injeel. And as a messenger to the Children of Israel: 'I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; that I create for you from clay the form of a bird, then I blow into it and it becomes a bird by God's leave, and I heal the blind and the leapers, and give life to the dead by God's leave, and I prophesize for you what you shall eat and what to store in your homes. In that is a sign for you if you are believers.' "And authenticating what is present with me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden to you; and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so be aware of God and obey me." "God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him, this is a Straight Path." So when Jesus felt their rejection, he said: "Who are my supporters to God?" The disciples said: "We are God's supporters, we believe in God and we bear witness that we have submitted.". 3:47-52
And when Jesus came with the proofs, he said: "I have come to you with the wisdom, and to clarify some of the matters in which you dispute. So be aware of God and obey me." 43:63
Also, the Qur'an says that many messengers have been sent and that some are known to us whether others are unknown; some are mentioned in the Quran (such as Noah, Moses, Jesus and a few others) whereas others are not named. People are also asked not to make a distinction between the messengers. So, for example, Muhammad is not more important than Jesus and vice versa:
And certainly We raised in every nation a messenger saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan. So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due; therefore travel in the land, then see what was the end of the rejecters. 16:36
And certainly We sent messengers before you: there are some of them that We have mentioned to you and there are others whom We have not mentioned to you, and it was not meet for a messenger that he should bring a sign except with Allah's permission, but when the command of Allah came, judgment was given with truth, and those who treated (it) as a lie were lost. 40:78
Say: We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit. 2:136
Surely those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and (those who) desire to make a distinction between Allah and His messengers and say: We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and desire to take a course between (this and) that. These it is that are truly unbelievers, and We have prepared for the unbelievers a disgraceful chastisement. 4:150-151
Say: "We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between them, and to Him we submit." 3:84
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sparkle16: From my understanding, believing the Jesus lived and died on the cross for our sins is what makes a Christian a Christian. Jesus is not god, he is the son of God and therefore if we believe in his ministry and how he died on the cross for US and our sins then we can consider ourselves Christians. Caterpillar, absolutely, I believe in educating oneself but I really believe that all the answers (for Christians) are found in the bible. It is only when you are uncertain of your beliefs, that you search for answers elsewhere and your belief comes from within. That is what faith is. Sometimes the answers are not there and you just have to have faith. Interesting topic though, lets keeps it going!
so did Jesus die on the cross for those who were born before he lived and didnt even know of him to believe in him then? does this mean Moses and all previous prophets wont enter heaven as they didnt know or believe in Jesus and his supposed dying on the cross to save us all, and does that mean that anyone who believes in Jesus and carries on committing sins will still go to heaven coz they believe Jesus dies for thier sins they have yet to commit?
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:and does that mean that anyone who believes in Jesus and carries on committing sins will still go to heaven coz they believe Jesus dies for thier sins they have yet to commit?
Christians are saved by grace. However, True faith results in true works.
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posted
Shebah, I thought Jesus didnt come to change any laws but to uphold the laws of God already given to Moses? Jesus was a Jew.
The food laws were changed later by Paul not Jesus, Jesus never ate pork.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14,6).
008.020 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).
One from the bible and one from Quran.
Dont you think they are similar?? Dont you think maybe both are saying 'follow what I TEACH you from God'
Christians take the Bible verse to claim Jesus is God and Muslims take the Quran verse to claim that they should even eat, sleep, walk, look like Muhammed!!(pbut) Are they BOTH saying that their respective prophets are God?
They BOTH mean follow what I teach, they were both messengers of God sent to bring a message, the same message, neither are GOD. They both followed the SUNNAH of GOD. (the way) Neither gave anything new in this, ALL prophets told you to worship God alone, none said worship me as God.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
To christians, Jesus was not simply a prophet but God in human form......hence one of his names Emmanuel, which means "God with us". Jesus as THE son of God is implicit in scripture. The Book of John begins: "In the beginning was the word (Jesus) and the word was God and the word was with God." The Triune god is mentioned in scripture. Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit).
The whole reason the Jewish authorities of Jesus' time sought to kill him was because in their view he blasphemed by claiming to be equal with God: "Therefore, the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his father, making himself equal with god." John 5:18. In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which god revealed himself to Moses from the burning bush. "Jesus said unto them: 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." God referred to himself as I AM to Moses and by describing himself as I AM Jesus proclaimed himself God and the Jews of his day knew exactly what he meant....thus their anger. When the Jews picked up stones to stone him Jesus replied: "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me? We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man CLAIM TO BE GOD."
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posted
In Acts 10:9-16, the Apostle Peter saw a vision of a blanket coming down from Heaven covered with animals that had been declared unclean under Jewish Law (Leviticus 11:44-47; Deuteronomy 14:2-3). To his surprise, God instructed Peter to freely kill and eat of these animals (v.13) When Peter objected that nothing unclean had ever entered his mouth (v. 14), God reassured him that "What God has cleansed, do not call common (v. 15)." Although the context of this passage deals primarily with the Gentiles coming into God's Kingdom, it does clearly show us that God no longer classifies meats as "clean" and "unclean." All of God's creatures are good, and may be freely eaten as long as they are received with thanksgiving and prayer (1 Corinthians 8:1-13).
Mark 7:14-23: “Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, ‘Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him unclean by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him unclean.’ After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. ‘Are you so dull?’ he asked. ‘Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him `unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.’(In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") He went on: ‘What comes out of a man is what makes him `unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man `unclean.’”
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14,6).
008.020 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).
One from the bible and one from Quran.
Dont you think they are similar?? Dont you think maybe both are saying 'follow what I TEACH you from God'
But Jesus who came first and said the above by using the code "I AM" which repeated many times and made the Jews understood that he was pretending to act as God.so you want Christians again to follow Muhammed because he said the similar words.how come?
Get a look to my thread about prophet Mani before Muhammed who said I am the seal of prophets and an angel came to me by revelation.
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Shebah, I thought Jesus didnt come to change any laws but to uphold the laws of God already given to Moses? Jesus was a Jew.
Jesus was perfect to uphold any Law. The OT is not obsolete. Jesus never said he came to do away with the Law but to fulfill it.
Here is why:
Are you a good person? Have you ever told a lie? Doesn't matter how big or small, just a lie. What does that make you? Before answering think about this, if I told you a lie what would you call me? A liar?
See one day we all are going to stand before a Holy God on Judgment Day and he is going to judge us.
But God is so Holy and perfect that no matter how many good deeds or how hard we try we can never be good enough for God. God is indefinately perfect and sinless.
Because God is indifinately Just, we are all guilty and all are deserving of punishment. But there is an out for us. Christ died the perfect holy sacrifice for sin and only with righteousness borrowed from him can we dwell with God. The judgement will be between those who die in Him and those who don't. That's the teaching of christianity which places grace through faith at the forefront.
Humans in their sinfulness are unable to meet the demands of justice for their fallen state so God in his mercy provided a perfect sacrifice in his Son to pay "once, for all" the penalty for sin. In doing so he fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets. Those who trust in Christ for their salvation will share in His righteousness as their sins will be covered. Trusting in Christ is more than a passive belief. Jesus himself said in answer to the question "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" that "...you must be born again." This is a change of heart, a turning away from sinful ways to a life that emulates the life He modeled. As the Apostle Pau put it in his letter to the Galatian Church "I am crucified with Christ (the old self) nevertheless I live;(ust as He does) yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." GAL. 2:20. Is this a free pass for Christians? No it is not. A dog does not bark in order to become a dog, it barks because it is a dog. Similarly, a Christian doesn't do good works in order to be saved, he/she does good works because they are saved. Christians believe in a loving, compassionate God whose grace is limitless. Because of this Christians can live lives free in the knowledge that they are not being measured against a set of rules, regulations and laws that it is impossible to keep...a Law that was fulfilled in Christ.
The Bible is replete with God's grace even though the actual word may not be used. I am defining grace as God's "unmeritted favor".....a love that we do not deserve but a gracious God gives anyway....and love isn't something God does, it is what He is.
quote:"He said to them, ‘This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.’ Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, ‘This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.’" Luke 24:44-47
Jesus confirmed the Old Testament. He did not cancel it, He completed it. He promised the New Testament. We are underd the new covenant. We get saved by the mercy and grace of God.
The OT should be used as a measuring stick, so that we realize how truly sinful we are in God's eyes. No matter how hard we try and no matter how many good deeds we do we can never be good enough for God's perfect standards. Then, we read the NT, to understand the gift of grace, that even though we're so sinful, Jesus loves us, and God loves us, and we are spared.
"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Rom 3:2
"By grace are ye saved through faith…it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast" Eph. 2:8,9
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That is what I was told when I asked. So if I was told that, how many others are? I never got it. It was one more of those contradictory things for me. Oh he's came to do uphold the laws of Moses, but oh......some things were different after he came.
Christianity is no different than Islam or any other religion here. You have your basic beliefs, but who knows when culture, family, certain people, or even broad opinions enter the mix. Some we accept. Some we don't. For me I believed stuff for years because that is what my parents taught me. Were they bad? No It was simply the way they were taught.
This is why I cannot understand why people just accept things. They need to use their minds and study, pray, and find the truth from God. No one else.
I think Christians and Muslims do this.
-------------------- شكرا و أللام عليكم شيبى Posts: 2133 | From: Redneckland | Registered: Oct 2006
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ok here's a interisting thign i had the courage to go to church near me i asked to learn about the religion for my surpris the guy asked whats my religion i said i was born muslim he said for me to go and never come back as they dont want troubl !!!!!!!! i was chocked i didn't even look at him on my way out
Posts: 76 | From: Hurghada | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by NLP-Certified: ok here's a interisting thign i had the courage to go to church near me i asked to learn about the religion for my surpris the guy asked whats my religion i said i was born muslim he said for me to go and never come back as they dont want troubl !!!!!!!! i was chocked i didn't even look at him on my way out
OMG NLP I am sooooo sorry that happened to you, its pretty disgusting to turn anyone away from any church/mosque/place of worship like that, especially someone who comes looking for answers. I hope you dont take this as what normally happens, in fact i do hope this is NOT what is normally happening now. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by NLP-Certified: ok here's a interisting thign i had the courage to go to church near me i asked to learn about the religion for my surpris the guy asked whats my religion i said i was born muslim he said for me to go and never come back as they dont want troubl !!!!!!!! i was chocked i didn't even look at him on my way out
So SAD
I went to a church that my friend invited me too, all were friendly and they knew I was muslim.
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quote: ok here's a interisting thign i had the courage to go to church near me i asked to learn about the religion for my surpris the guy asked whats my religion i said i was born muslim he said for me to go and never come back as they dont want troubl !!!!!!!! i was chocked i didn't even look at him on my way out
That is really sad. I have never heard of that happening. Hopefully that means it doesn't happen that often. Usually wherever you go, they want to win you over. So they don't care what you are.
Posts: 2133 | From: Redneckland | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
you could find some jehovahs witnesses, they are usually pretty keen to talk to people of other faiths.
It is a shame this man reacted this way, have you thought about watching those debates between christians and muslims, i have heard that ahmed deedat had alot of these discussions, I havent watched any yet.
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NLP I am sooooo sorry that happened to you, its pretty disgusting to turn anyone away from any church/mosque/place of worship like that, especially someone who comes looking for answers. I hope you dont take this as what normally happens, in fact i do hope this is NOT what is normally happening now. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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