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Originally posted by Undercover:
From the Hadith: lbn Haban in his Sahih, vol.14, p.529, narrates: Muhammad said, "I swear by Him who has my soul in his hands, I was sent to you with nothing but slaughter."

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maybe if you provided the complete text i would answer your question.

You are nasty aren't you. You live your life like this trying to undermine Islam. Seriously go out get a beautiful lady and just chill with her it might ease you anger.

I am personally proficient in Ahadith in Arabic because i do not approve of translations of what the the Prophet said or might have said (pbuh) said

Yeah get back to me and get a girl while you are at it

Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Sobriquet:
and at the very least post a link! damn

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Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by homing pigeon:

Why dont you go to a moderate Muslim website for a change? Or one of us could purchase you a copy of the nine REAL sunna books ..... and send them off to u as a present.

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Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by homing pigeon:
vol 4 book 22 of which sahih?

This link goes to the the University of Southern California compendium of Muslim texts

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Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Undercover:

quote:

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Originally posted by homing pigeon:

Why dont you go to a moderate Muslim website for a change? Or one of us could purchase you a copy of the nine REAL sunna books ..... and send them off to u as a present.

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I did homing pigeon, and I found similar hadiths to the one above:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been made victorious with terror"

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html

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Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Ayisha:
narrated by ayisha in her sahih hadith:


"I say unto you that the spawn of the devil resides in EgyptSearch"

These are noted as sahih, because I said so

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Posts: 785 | From: Cairo, Egypt | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Undercover:

quote:

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Originally posted by homing pigeon:
vol 4 book 22 of which sahih?

This link goes to the the University of Southern California compendium of Muslim texts

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Sahih Bukhari!

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Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by welsafty:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ayisha:
narrated by ayisha in her sahih hadith:


"I say unto you that the spawn of the devil resides in EgyptSearch"

These are noted as sahih, because I said so

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Narrated By welsafty “I read Aisia (PBUH) in Egyptsearch post "Verily we have come upon the devil himself when we quote from Jewish websites regarding hadith"

Good blesses thy, and givth you peace. For she have spoken the truth

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yaayyy I have one follower

Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by welsafty:
please refer to Sahih “Ayisha”. book 1 volume 1, hadith # 1 , "thy shall not reference any hadith from a Jewish URL, for surely there is many devils on Egyptsearch try to screw up with your minds, and confuse you about your faith".

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proof of how a hadith can change in its being passed on, not in hundreds of years but in about an hour

Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Ayisha:

quote:

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Originally posted by welsafty:
please refer to Sahih “Ayisha”. book 1 volume 1, hadith # 1 , "thy shall not reference any hadith from a Jewish URL, for surely there is many devils on Egyptsearch try to screw up with your minds, and confuse you about your faith".

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proof of how a hadith can change in its being passed on, not in hundreds of years but in about an hour

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Originally posted by homing pigeon:
Notice the context, Mohammad mentioned the slaughter in reference to a few members in the Quraysh tribe who had just assaulted him. It was not retaliatory. He prophesied they were going to be slaughtered to which Abu Gahl made his deprecatory remark that Mohammaed has never been an ignoramus who believed in prophesies. The truth is these men were slaughtered in Badr by the Muslim army. However, it was not Mohammad who killed them. Abu Gahl, who was the leader of the kafir army, was killed by the two youngest recruits in the muslim army.

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So Muhammad had nothing to do with the Slaughter?

Oh c'mon homing pigeon, get real!

The Prophet instigated hatred of the Jews, the kafirs and the rest of disbelievers, and ordered his followers to kill anyone who refused to accept his claims.

In reality Islam has declared war on all the non-Muslims.

“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you”? (Q.2:216).

“Unless ye go forth, He (Allah) will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place”? (Q.9:39).

No one wanted to attack the Muslims. All Muhammad’s wars were offensive. Here is the text of the message that Mohammad sent to the Julanda brothers the rulers of Oman:

"Peace be upon the one who follows the right path! I call you to Islam. Accept my call, and you shall be unharmed. I am God's Messenger to mankind, and the word shall be carried out upon the miscreants. If, therefore, you recognize Islam, I shall bestow power upon you. But if you refuse to accept Islam, your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom."

Homing pigeon,

The Quraish had their own religion. I want you to ask yourself. How would you like if I come with a new religion and tell you accept me as the messenger of God or face the consequences? Suppose I have the manpower and enough hungry gangsters and merciless brainwashed hounds. Is it fair? Do you think that would be right for me to come and kill you, take your kids as slaves if you refuse my religion?

The Quraish had asked Muhammad logical questions, but Muhammad had no satisfactory answers. Muhammad ridiculed their religion and demanded from them to believe in him. Instead of trying to win them over with logical arguments he said Allah should not be questioned. Why? Under question Muhammad’s lies would become manifest. A true God would welcome questions because he has all the answers. Only a false prophet says don’t question me. He fears to be exposed as a liar. He then tries to make people submit to him through fear. Only people who give in to fear and do not dare to question. If you are innocent you don’t mind polygraph but a person who is guilty usually does not want to be polygraphed. Muhammad did not like people questioning him. He said you must not question God. But this is stupid. If he really was from God, he would have welcomed all the Questions and would have had answers for all of them. He did not want to be exposed so he threatened those who questioned him with hellfire and often killed them.

Muhammad taunted the religion of the Qruaish, and FORCED his followers to immigrate. No one persecuted them. No Muslim died in the had of the Quraish in Mecca.

“Lo! those who believed and left their homes and strove with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah, and those who took them in and helped them: these are protecting friends one of another. And those who believed but did not leave their homes, ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes..”[/b] (Q.8: 72)

And in another place he even orders killing those who did not immigrate.

[i]They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them, (Q.4: 89)

The truth is the the Quraish did not persecute the Muslims. Muhammad wanted to divide and rule. That is why he kept taunting the religion of the Quraish to make them angry and ordered his followers to immigrate.

When Muhammad went to Medina, the Jews and the Arabs did not have any problems with each other. In fact they married amongst each other, made business with each other and were allies. After Muhammad went there he caused sedition, made the Arabs hate the Jews and eventually annihilated the 2000 years old population of the Jews of Arabia pillaging all their belongings.

Muslims followed the tradition of Muhammad everywhere in the world. The partition of India and the loss of millions of lives in that subcontinent is a painful reminder of that. Today some Muslims are engaged in causing sedition and terrorist activities in Philippine, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Algeria, Egypt, Turkey and have ruined the countries where they have come to power like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Where there are two Islamists gathered together there is mischief brewing in their heads. Islamists today as they have been in the past 1400 years are the major trouble makers and are unrelenting forces of sedition and mischief.

Now -let us assume that actually it was the Banu Qurayza that assulted the Prophet. Would this justify Muhammad massacring all of them and selling as slaves their women and children? This mentality is extremely troublesome. Usually the people who decide on behalf of a nation are their leaders, if the leaders do something wrong, should the entire population be punished? Milosovic is a war criminal, does that allow us to go and massacre the entire Yugoslav population? Saddam Hussein is a criminal too; should we massacre all the Iraqis, enslave their wives and children?

When Banu Quraiza was besieged by Muhammad’s men the army of Allah shut the water supply to them. Imagine the hardship that the children had to go through. Finally they decided to surrender. No fight ever took place. Now they are prisoners of war. What would the merciful messenger of Allah do to his prisoners of war? He would order the massacre of all the men and enslavement of all the woman and children. To separate men from the boys he ordered the youngsters to take off their pants for him to inspect and see if they had grown any pubic hair. If they had he ordered killing them, if not he sold them to serve as slaves. Is growing pubic hair a crime punishable by death? What was the guilt of a 12-year old boy who just happened to have grown pubic hair?

Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:
I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4390

What kind of human worthy of calling himself with such a name can read these heinous acts and still defend them?

"The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reasoning."...Voltaire, Philosophical Dictionary, 1764

The fact of the genocide of the Jews and the Christians ordered by Muhammad is clear from this Hadith.

The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders one of them was to Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288

And the fact the Muhammad enslaved free people is clear from this hadith.

Sa'd's (the man chosen by the Prophet to decide the fate of the Bani Quriaza) verdict was "that all the able-bodied male persons belonging to the tribe should be killed, women and children taken prisoners and their wealth divided among the Muslim fighters." Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 280

What does "take their women and children as prisoners" mean. What did those women and children do? What was the purpose of keeping them as prisoners? They became slaves to the captors and since no Muslim fought in this war, they all went to the estate of the Prophet and he sold them. He kept Rayhana.

The fact that this war enriched Muhammad is also clear from the following hadith.

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
People used to give some of their datepalms to the Prophet (as a gift), till he conquered Bani Quraiza and Bani An-Nadir, whereupon he started returning their favors.[/b] Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176

Muhammad started raiding the caravans before any state of war existed. It is a lie that the early Muslims were "taking back" what they had lost. No one confiscated anything from the Muslims in Mecca. No one forced them to leave Mecca. In fact the families of most of these converts tried to prevent their young relatives who had fallen prey to this new cult of Islam from leaving. It was Muhammad who forced them to emigrate. You can see this very clearly here

Now let us suppose that actually some Meccans did confiscate the belonging of the Muslims (This is not true at all. See the above link) under what law one can go and take possession of the belongings of another person that happens to be a citizen of the same town? If some Muslims steal something from me, is is right for me to come and take your property in revenge?

I already quoted the hadith were Muhammad enslaved the women and children of banu Quriaza. Then he moved to Kheibar and did the same in that town.

Sahih Bukhari V 2, B 14, N68

[i]Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) offered the Fajr prayer when it was still dark, then he rode and said, 'Allah Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. When we approach near to a nation, the most unfortunate is the morning of those who have been warned." The people came out into the streets saying, "Muhammad and his army." Allah's Apostle vanquished them by force and their warriors were killed; the children and women were taken as captives. Safiya was taken by Dihya Al-Kalbi and later she belonged to Allah's Apostle go who married her and her Mahr was her manumission.

As a matter of fact Muhammad had so many slaves that only Ayesha who was just one of his many wives manumitted 40 of them in one occasion when she broke an oath as expiation. Now one can just imagine how many slaves did she actually have and how many slaves Muhammad's other wives had. Where did they get these slaves, except through capturing them is several wars? (Sahih Bukhari V 4, B 56, N708)

Those captured were women and children and not common criminals. Plus Muhammad already confiscated their properties. How they could pay any ransom?

Those people who were released by ransom were Arab men captured after Muhammad raided their merchant caravans stole their goods and then asked for ransom from their families or threatened to kill them.

Muhammad kept his prisoners under the threat of death until he got money for their release. These men were captured in raids. The very taking act of raiding them and capturing them was illegal. He infringed their human rights just by raiding these caravans or towns, plundering their belongings and capturing them.

He got these people by raiding their homes and sold them for profit. However there is indication that he also considered beating them is okay. In Hadith Sahih Bukhari V 8, B 73, N 68 He advised his followers not to beat their wives like a stallion or a slave and then sleep with them.

In the Hadith Sahih Bukhari V 2, B 25, N 587 Muhammad orders "every male or female, free man or slave, the payment of one Sa' of dates or barley as Sadaqat-ul-Fitr" This shows also that slavery was accepted in Islam.

Raiding without warning, killing the men and enslaving the women had become a trademark of Muhammad. If fact the word Qazvah means sudden attack.

Sahih Bukhari V 3, B 46, N 717

Narrated Ibn Aun:
I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.

You should not judge the truth of a prophet by the good words that he says. Of course any charlatan will say something good so people become fooled and believe in him. You should judge them by their deeds. A prophet of God must not massacre innocent people. He must not assassinate his critics, must not rape captive women, must not sleep with a 9 year old child, must not be a thief. Any criminal can say good things. See if their deeds match their words. “Ye shall know them by their fruits”

Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Undercover:
“Lo! those who believed and left their homes and strove with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah, and those who took them in and helped them: these are protecting friends one of another. And those who believed but did not leave their homes, ye have no duty to protect them till they leave their homes..”[/b] (Q.8: 72)

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Posts: 785 | From: Cairo, Egypt | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by soma:
you coverd it's easy i see you hate islam so if you hate islam so i hate type people like you but if you didn't like my religion it's okay keep your view but if you send always more attack for my religion ? wow i'm not born yester day so you hate my religion , so the god damn all hate any bit of islam religion and put them on the bottom of the dark hell , it's soo darky it's black fire in REAL ,

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Originally posted by Undercover:

quote:

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Originally posted by soma:
you coverd it's easy i see you hate islam so if you hate .....................igion and put them on the bottom of the dark hell , it's soo darky it's black fire in REAL ,

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You might have that perception but your perception is based on prejudices and not on facts. Your excessive love for Islam hinders you to see the truth and you confuse the truth with hate. It is like a child whose father has been found guilty but because he is unable to accept the fact, he thinks his father is being unjustly discriminated against and the accusation is hate motivated. In other word the immature child takes the charges against his father as personal attacks. But everything that I said is backed by evidence and is documented. Therefore they are based on facts and not hate.

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Posts: 785 | From: Cairo, Egypt | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Undercover:
welsafty, forget about the source. Besides I have read thousands of Islamic sites and heard both sides of the story before analysing the facts and making up my mind.

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Originally posted by Undercover:

Even if it is possible to misunderstand a word or two, it is impossible to misunderstand the general meaning of so many hadiths.

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Originally posted by Undercover:

He got these people by raiding their homes and sold them for profit. However there is indication that he also considered beating them is okay. In Hadith Sahih Bukhari V 8, B 73, N 68 He advised his followers not to beat their wives like a stallion or a slave and then sleep with them.

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Originally posted by Undercover:

And nope you are wrong. I don't hate Islam. I don't care enough to hate it. Also look at previous posts of mine. I even defended Islam in some threads. I just don't like arrogance when I see it, and also I am a bit annoyed by the way some people here are treating me. I have learned you are going to get attacked anyway, no matter how careful or respectful you are towards Islam. You just can't win.

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Posts: 785 | From: Cairo, Egypt | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by welsafty:
YOU ARE A LIAR you have the site, you have the text and yet you have the nerves to change it and twist it, where in this hadith you sick (SOB) did the prophet say it is ok to beat a wife like a slave and then sleep with here?, and how did you conclude he indicated that, clearly the mention of beating slave was not out of prophet Mohammed (PBUH),

this is the hadith you quoted (FROM THE SAME SITE)
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 68:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a:

The Prophet forbade laughing at a person who passes wind, and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?" And Hisham said, "As he beats his slave"

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He got these people by raiding their homes and sold them for profit. However there is indication that he also considered beating them is okay. In Hadith Sahih Bukhari V 8, B 73, N 68 He advised his followers not to beat their wives like a stallion or a slave and then sleep with them.

In the Hadith Sahih Bukhari V 2, B 25, N 587 Muhammad orders "every male or female, free man or slave, the payment of one Sa' of dates or barley as Sadaqat-ul-Fitr" This shows also that slavery was accepted in Islam.

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Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Undercover:

quote:

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Originally posted by welsafty:
YOU ARE A LIAR you have the site, you have the text and yet you have the nerves to change it and twist it, where in this hadith you sick (SOB) did the prophet say it is ok to beat a wife like a slave and then sleep with here?, and how did you conclude he indicated that, clearly the mention of beating slave was not out of prophet Mohammed (PBUH),

this is the hadith you quoted (FROM THE SAME SITE)
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 68:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a:

The Prophet forbade laughing at a person who passes wind, and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?" And Hisham said, "As he beats his slave"

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That's NOT what he said.

He said: "He advised his followers not to beat their wives like a stallion or a slave and then sleep with them."

The hadith describes a reality: The followers of Muhammad BEAT their slaves.

The fact that Hisham (a Muslim) considers the beating of slaves as something normal is very telling.

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Posts: 785 | From: Cairo, Egypt | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged |