posted
And everything has a reason. It's not so difficult to work it out. Think of a life that only has good things in it. Will you even be able to grasp the concept of good if there is no bad? Ultimately, good will be clasified into excellent, very good, quite good, not so good and not good at all. Then you will end up having good and bad again.
Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
God created everything, and there was no bad at first. The devil was a fallen angel who wanted to be equal to God. So God banished him and then created hell as his home.
Posts: 50 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
There has to be somewhere where the bad guys go in the end. Otherwise, everybody would just want to be bad as it is more fun and you dont ever get to answer for it...so why bother.
There had to be a standing order for hell for evil doers to limit the amount of evil in the world.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by vuitton_girl: God created everything, and there was no bad at first. The devil was a fallen angel who wanted to be equal to God. So God banished him and then created hell as his home.
Where do you get that from
Posts: 77 | From: AMSTERDAM | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
The devil was one of Gods angels. Like us God made them with free will.
3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6:2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose. Genesis 6:2 RSV gen 6:2 they had desire to pick their mates
6:3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, matters pertaining to this life! 1 Corinthians 6:3 RSV
1 corinthians 6:3 if they didnt have free will and only did what god told them to do then why would they need to be judged
Satan was created 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, carnelian, topaz, and jasper, chrysolite, beryl, and onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and wrought in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. 28:14 With an anointed guardian cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. Ezekiel 28:13-15 RSV
And at his creation, Satan was the model of perfection, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty 28:12 "Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
He was anointed and ordained by God as a guardian cherub Ezekiel 28:14 and was blameless in his ways Ezekiel 28:15 28:14 With an anointed guardian cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. Ezekiel 28:14-15 RSV
But then something went terribly wrong. His heart became proud on account of his beauty, and he corrupted his wisdom because of his splendor Ezekiel 28:17 He became filled with violence Ezekiel 28:16 28:16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire..
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: The devil was one of Gods angels. Like us God made them with free will.
In Islam the devil was one of the Jinn:
Surah 18 Ayat 50 Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam": They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers! (Yusuf Ali)
Iblis was made from smokeless fire and the Angels were made from light.
Surah 38 Ayat 76 (Iblis) said: "I am better than he: thou createdst me from fire, and him thou createdst from clay." (Yusuf Ali)
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Pepi, the debate about the nature of the devil has been going on in every religion. In Islam he's not an angel and he's not a human, he's a third type. Scholars have been inquiring why was he in heaven at all when Adam was created. I didnt read through this debate.....because I simple dont care ! He's here now and we have to deal with him and that's that.
I also see that there is a wisdom to his prescence as I said earlier.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by NotSleeplessInCairo: Surah 18 Ayat 50 Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam": They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers! (Yusuf Ali)
Iblis was made from smokeless fire and the Angels were made from light.
I'm little bit confused,God ordered the angels to bow down except Iblis he was one of Jinns,so because the order was to angels alone why god blamed Iblis if he is different creature than angels?
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by NotSleeplessInCairo: Surah 18 Ayat 50 Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam": They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers! (Yusuf Ali)
Iblis was made from smokeless fire and the Angels were made from light.
I'm little bit confused,God ordered the angels to bow down except Iblis he was one of Jinns,so because the order was to angels alone why god blamed Iblis if he is different creature than angels?
No, God ordered them to bow down and they all did except iblis, that is different to saying that God ordered them all to bow down except Iblis.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Thanks Aiysha,but according to Aya there are two creatures Angels and Jinns and it's clear mention "Behold! We said to the angels" as Iblis wasn't an angel it's mention "He was one of the Jinns" so simply he didn't obey.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
All of creation has to submit to the creator. God created jinn as well as man and angels so even jinn should have bowed to Adam when told to. The reason he did not obey is not because he was "one of the jinn" but because he would not bow to man as he thought he was better than man.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by NotSleeplessInCairo: Surah 18 Ayat 50 Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam": They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers! (Yusuf Ali)
Iblis was made from smokeless fire and the Angels were made from light.
I'm little bit confused,God ordered the angels to bow down except Iblis he was one of Jinns,so because the order was to angels alone why god blamed Iblis if he is different creature than angels?
Hi Fresh Soda,
I know it looks a little confusing and I should have added something about the character of the Jinn - Iblis (the Devil).
Iblis was a Jinn but he would do as the Angels did with regards to worship and devotion, therefore when Allah called on the Angels to prostrate to Adam, Iblis (a Jinn) was included in that command. Tafsir explains it that from his reaction to this command his true character came out because Angels do not disobey Allah. His arrogance, as a "being" with free will, was stronger than his devotion.
There are Jinn who are Muslim, there are Jinn who join the task of the Devil to create corruption and fitna on earth, there are people (humans) who worship the Jinn. As with us, Jinn will also be called to account on the last day and they have spaces in hell reserved for them Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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Deuteronomy 32:4 The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he.
The way the Devil and bad humans came about is:-
James 1:14-15 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.
Of humans Deuteronomy 32:5 They have acted ruinously on their own part; They are not his children, the defect is their own. A generation crooked and twisted!
Posts: 370 | From: England | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Satan was once the most favored angel of God. His right hand man as it were. But between the Bible and the Quan, we are told that when God made man, He told the angels to bow before His creation, who had his essense in them, which angels do not. Satan refused saying someone created after him was not above him. That led to a rebellion in heaven and Satan and his followers being thrown out of heaven to earth.
Posts: 225 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Hell is a term describing an existence apart from God.
God’s ultimate purpose is to have people with him for all eternity. The person who hates God and everything he represents must be allowed to go away.
Posts: 1029 | Registered: Feb 2008
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