posted
some of you know i have had a lot of questions about islam, well i was thinking that perhaps i could start an msn group, where we could discuss certain verses, surahs etc one at a time, to build a better knowledge of islam.
I was thinking that i would like it to be women only, and maybe we could start with qu'ran, then move onto hadiths, but do it in some kind of order, a bit at a time, and build a knowledge base to refer to, particularly for new muslims like me.
I would really like to start this, but need some of you with more knowledge to come on board and help, i am happy to run it and do the donkey work, but need some good advisers, like Homing Pigeon, Ayisha, smuckers plus anyone else who might be interested.
I thought it could run like a course, with some structure (i need structure because islam is so vast)
I am so excited about this idea, please message me with your opinions and if you think it would be worthwhile.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
yes it was her post that got me thinking about it, also sleepless mentioned going through it in a certain order.
I know there are a lot of sites around with information, but as a revert i find it a bit above my level, and it would be nice to have something, quite basic that explains about islam, for people new to it like me, you know something that has the prayer you sent me Ayisha, links to other sites, info on media issues even, a place where newbies like me or others that want to learn more can come for a place to get the basics and feel they have a point of reference.
I have gained a lot of support from some of you on this site, it would be taking that to a smaller level and gradually expanding our knowledge. When i first started looking for information on islam last year i was overwhelmed with info, but a lot of it was over my head, quotes from quran scared me, it was in another language, words like 'inshaallah' were banded around etc and all felt so alien to me, it would be nice to create a bridge from outside to inside islam in a more accesible form..
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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This thread actually confirms some thoughts I had earlier.
First, I see the danger of the undercover style posts for people like yourself CAT who didnt get round to reading the quran in full yet....and I realize, my, these ARE designed for this group of people. The way Undercover points out the verses expecting you to be seeing them for the first time and the way loveforever used to say perhaps you're unaware of this or that....Oh, I see it now. This is all aimed at turning you round. They dont work with people like me because I've gone through the books, had them taught at school and independent tutors all my life.
For me, It would require a different sort of plan; something like the salafi groups to do the job of tripping me off the right path
Second, I can see from what CAT says that the language used in Islamic websites contributes to alienating non Arabic speakers. It just uses too much jargon and too grandiose style to set things out (mostly, not all the time). I was involved in a translation project of Muslim texts and at least I'm glad to say that this particular project is trying to take that point into consideration. I remember circulating a joke to the group that goes like this:
Example of overtly technical language: "A research team proceeded towards the apex of a natural geologic protuberance, the purpose of their expedition being the procurement of a sample of fluid hydride of oxygen in a large vessel, the exact size of which was unspecified. One member of the team pricipitately descended, sustaining severe fractural damage to the upper cranial portion of his anatomical structure. Subsequently, the other member of the team performed a self-rotational translation oriented in the direction taken by the first member".
IN OTHER WORDS:
Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after.
Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Example of overtly technical language: "A research team proceeded towards the apex of a natural geologic protuberance, the purpose of their expedition being the procurement of a sample of fluid hydride of oxygen in a large vessel, the exact size of which was unspecified. One member of the team pricipitately descended, sustaining severe fractural damage to the upper cranial portion of his anatomical structure. Subsequently, the other member of the team performed a self-rotational translation oriented in the direction taken by the first member".
IN OTHER WORDS:
Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after.
posted
If you come up with this please let me know. I also am trying to learn all i can. Now here is a big question, I have 2 qurans already, one i purchased in a book store and one was sent to me by a website that is now no longer available, it said it was approved by mosques,, my question is, where do i get an english/arabic translation of the quran that is accepted by islam? The 2 i have have both english and arabic text but i want to know if there is a certain person that has translated the quran that is accepted by islamic officials? I have an email sent to a mosque that is located about an hour from me called the Islamic Society of North America's headquarters asking this question but so far no response from them. I am thinking to go visit them there soon.
posted
Any chance I could be included as well? Sounds great, and without insults! Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
we seem to have several interested here, so who here knows how to get it started? or should we all just add eachother to messenger and hope we are on at the same time to do conferences
quote:Originally posted by mysticheart: If you come up with this please let me know. I also am trying to learn all i can. Now here is a big question, I have 2 qurans already, one i purchased in a book store and one was sent to me by a website that is now no longer available, it said it was approved by mosques,, my question is, where do i get an english/arabic translation of the quran that is accepted by islam? The 2 i have have both english and arabic text but i want to know if there is a certain person that has translated the quran that is accepted by islamic officials? I have an email sent to a mosque that is located about an hour from me called the Islamic Society of North America's headquarters asking this question but so far no response from them. I am thinking to go visit them there soon.
Mystic, The first Quran I read was an N J Dawood Translation published by Penguin Classics. There was no Arabic in it and very easy to read. For a newbie I would recommend that.
I also have a Yusef Ali translation which is I think one of the main translators approved. I bought a pocket M.Muhsin Khan one also but that one I dont like as there are too many of his own additions.
quote:Originally posted by mysticheart: we seem to have several interested here, so who here knows how to get it started? or should we all just add eachother to messenger and hope we are on at the same time to do conferences
I used to belong to a Yahoo group when you could have user rooms. It was just for women to learn to recite Quran properly every Saturday afternoon. Our teacher was an Egyptian man and he would send us the sura in romanized Arabic and we would practice all week from www.reciter.org then be tested and corrected or praised if we got it right was great fun and I learnt quite a few sura Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
wow, Ayisha. I'm impressed! This is quite an undertaking when you're very new to Arabic. But what dya think? Isnt the sound of the quran in Arabic really magnificent?
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I'm interested CAT, just let me know what to do, sounds like a great idea! I could use some brushing up Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by homing pigeon: wow, Ayisha. I'm impressed! This is quite an undertaking when you're very new to Arabic. But what dya think? Isnt the sound of the quran in Arabic really magnificent?
Absolutely!! I really enjoyed doing it too and did quite well, according to our teacher anyway It wasnt learning what the meaning was though, but how to recite, cant remember the Arabic for what thats called.
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posted
Thats it, I knew it began with a T, but then most of them do so I get mixed up
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Mystic, The first Quran I read was an N J Dawood Translation published by Penguin Classics. There was no Arabic in it and very easy to read. For a newbie I would recommend that.
I also have a Yusef Ali translation which is I think one of the main translators approved. I bought a pocket M.Muhsin Khan one also but that one I dont like as there are too many of his own additions.
My favourite is an Arabic / English Qur'an that uses a modified version of the Yusuf Ali translation. I have no clue where it can be bought since someone gave it to me as a present.
The Muhsin Khan translation, as you said, has many things added which distorts it in a way that comes close to blasphemy imo, I wouldn't recommend it for a first time reader or someone who doesn't know any Arabic at all.
The Quran I Hate
The Quran is my favorite novel, favorite poem, favorite recording, favorite creation. But there are those who turn "my preciousss" into pungence; my warmth into fire; my beloved into a blizzard of death.
By Ali Eteraz, December 15, 2006
I am obsessed with the Quran. I love the Quran like little boys love Harry Potter. Like white folk loved Outkast's Speakerboxxx and thugs loved Outkast's ATLeans. Like geeks love MySQL. Like girls love Gucci. I love it like Dantes loved Mercedes. I love it like Rumi loved Shams; Hallaj, God; and Nietzsche, himself. I love the Quran like Bela Bartok loved laughter and Romanians love them gypsies. I love the Quran like I loved Sophie Marceau when I was a lonely teen. I love the Quran more; much more.
The Quran is my favorite novel, favorite poem, favorite recording, favorite creation. Its Prophets are more real to me than a thousand Aragorns and Legolases. Its Karuns and Zulqurnains are more devastating than a thousand Saurons. At the end of the day, when my toes won't bend from having walked in the cold so long, and my eyes won't close from having stayed open at work so long, I go to the Quran and Tawfeeq al Sayegh busts out in a recitation of al-Fajr, and my achilles heel melts in warmth, and my spinal cortex straightens and sets. I am overawed by the humanity of the book and I feel transcendence. Like any slave to beauty, I want nothing more than to scatter the perfume of the Quran in a thousand directions and share with others the luxuriant fragrance.
But there are those who turn "my preciousss" into pungence; my warmth into fire; my beloved into a blizzard of death; my love into a lizard. Their names come easy to the mouth, like phlegm should: Osama, Zarqawi, Bakri. They echo against the names of others who knew how to bastardize beauty: Stalin, Bakunin, Cheney.
However, these men are merely expressions of a deeper malaise. They have theological enablers who leaked the wines of worship from the Quran and injected instead the blood of desert scorpions. I speak of those men who change the verses of the Quran to serve their own disreputable ends; who by way of parantheticals not actually in the Arabic create a class of hate that breeds only blood and bombs.
The Fatiha, The Opening, Magisterial and Evocative, which begins with "Praise For The Lord Of The Worlds" ends up in a taxonomy of exclusion by way of parentheses:
Guide us to the Straight Way. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).
No longer in this newly rewritten Quran is a believer left to reflect upon his being in relation to the unknown, his entry into the mysteries of existence, but to hate the Jew, hate the Christian. How could the Lord of all the Worlds accept such rancor toward His creation? Don't ask God; ask the government of Saudi Arabia which peddles this "noble" anti-Quran; ask the "Islamic" University of Medina; ask Shaykh Bin Baz, Saudi Grand Mufti until 1999 who certified these insertions; and the King Fahd Center For Printing of the Holy Quran.
This is what Michael Sells calls War as Worship; Worship as War. This is the Quran I hate; this caricature of beauty. This is the Quran I will jihad against. (You must wait for my plot, but I shall plot).
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: The Muhsin Khan translation, as you said, has many things added which distorts it in a way that comes close to blasphemy imo, I wouldn't recommend it for a first time reader or someone who doesn't know any Arabic at all.
Oh, THAT explains things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone tell me who IS Mohsen Khan, please? I noted that he is the translator of the Bukhari hadith database that is used on USC.....the one I am having problems cross matching with the Arabic text. That, in spite of the fact that other books like Fiqh Assunna on USC are very accurate and cross match very well. Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I take your word for it, Dalia. I want to know, though, if anything of his biography is known.
I mean, it's bad enough that his translation of Bukhari was dubious (I could put that to a faulty Arabic version he used, however, unlikely) but now you mention his translation fo the quran, too is dubious. It doesnt leave him any benefit of doubt to wallow in.
But thanks for giving me that link and mentioning his quran translation. This is very useful information and I expect I'll need it before long.
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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I was sent this link, which is excellent, it has various translations, it has the arabic AND you can listen to different people reciting.
Its a good start
I think we should start with an msn group to start with i am going to look into options today, OR i might start a website which could have the translations but also have a discussion part, need to speak to hubby about this as he wil have to help me build it. either way we could start on msn group and maybe move elsewhere if it works well.
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
ok, I have started creating an msngroup, I have added a couple of bits but it takes longer than you think, so whoever wants to join please pm me.
for moderating i am keeping control of everything that is posted initially, but we can see how it goes, I hope that isnt frustrating for you. If you have anything you think would be good on there please do send it to me and i will add it inshaallah.
contact me for the address Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
To begin with, You could add the links to these sites we've collected here and the ones in your other thread; and any such useful links, you know. I also have asearchable copy of the quran in English and Arabic. I know I can let you upload the Arabic one but I'm not sure about copyright issues of the English translation. (Could circulate it between us,maybe. I'm sure I can do that rather than make it Public on the web)
-------------------- Noha Posts: 670 | From: alex living in leeds, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I have done some work on the group, i have put some links and the first Surah...now i am worn out! its hard work, i keep getting chucked out! hmmm think that devils at work again! Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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Have you registered there with a fake identity or are you recommending something you haven't even read yet?
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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something like the salafi groups to do the job of tripping me off the right path ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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