quote:According to the Kurdish website Jebar.info up to 1000 men from the Yezidi Kurdish community of Mosul killed a teenager who's only crime was running away to marry a Muslim man whom she loved and converting to his religion.
For four months the girl had been given shelter by a local Muslim Sheik. It was reported that in the last few days her family persuaded her to return home, convincing her that she had been forgiven by her parents and relatives for her mistake.
In a short mobile video clip which appears to have been taken by locals at seen of the murder, the girl is seen being ambushed on her way home by a group of up to 1000 men who were waiting for her to return; the men killed her in the most brutal way possible, by throwing large stones on her head. The following clips show that while she is alive and crying for help she is taunted and kicked in her stomach until someone finishes her off by throwing a large stone on her face.
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: For having a Sunni boyfriend
quote:According to the Kurdish website Jebar.info up to 1000 men from the Yezidi Kurdish community of Mosul killed a teenager who's only crime was running away to marry a Muslim man whom she loved and converting to his religion.
For four months the girl had been given shelter by a local Muslim Sheik. It was reported that in the last few days her family persuaded her to return home, convincing her that she had been forgiven by her parents and relatives for her mistake.
In a short mobile video clip which appears to have been taken by locals at seen of the murder, the girl is seen being ambushed on her way home by a group of up to 1000 men who were waiting for her to return; the men killed her in the most brutal way possible, by throwing large stones on her head. The following clips show that while she is alive and crying for help she is taunted and kicked in her stomach until someone finishes her off by throwing a large stone on her face.
Warning, the video is highly disturbing and not for the faint of heart.
This goes to show, that Sharia Law is an abomination of Justice.
~Alistair
This is not Sharia justice and I believe this particular incident was mentioned elsewhere on ES. The Yazidis are not Muslims of any sect. They are Iraqis mainly Kurds and actually worship Satan in one form or another. They believe that Satan is the caretaker of Earth and he is highly revered in Yazdanism.
So I don’t know what Sharia justice has to do with the Yazidis. The Iraqi Sunnis I believe actually retaliated against this heinous act.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: This is not Sharia justice
STFU!
Stoning to death is a well known penalty in Sharia Law.
quote:The Yazidis are not Muslims of any sect. They are Iraqis mainly Kurds and actually worship Satan in one form or another. They believe that Satan is the caretaker of Earth and he is highly revered in Yazdanism.
You Sobriquet, are apologist scum of the worst kind.
Yezidism has been strongly influenced by Islam, aswell as other religions, similar to how Islam was influenced by Judaism and Christianity.
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: This is not Sharia justice
STFU!
Stoning to death is a well known penalty in Sharia Law.
quote:The Yazidis are not Muslims of any sect. They are Iraqis mainly Kurds and actually worship Satan in one form or another. They believe that Satan is the caretaker of Earth and he is highly revered in Yazdanism.
You Sobriquet, are apologist scum of the worst kind.
Yezidism has been strongly influenced by Islam, aswell as other religions, similar to how Islam was influenced by Judaism and Christianity.
quote:So I don’t know what Sharia justice has to do with the Yazidis. The Iraqi Sunnis I believe actually retaliated against this heinous act.
STFU! Seriously..
~Alistair
I am not apologizing for Sharia there is nothing to apologize for I am merely pointing to your obvious ignorance.
Stoning an unmarried girl (or male) is not prescribed in Islamic Sharia. Just doesn’t happen, it is forbidden to do so. You read an article and that coupled with your biased presumptions obviously prompted you in starting a thread despite your obvious ignorance in Sharia.
Your connection between Yazdis' actions and Sharia were fallacious, that is all, don't take it personal.
You were wrong, simple as that.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: For having a Sunni boyfriend
quote:According to the Kurdish website Jebar.info up to 1000 men from the Yezidi Kurdish community of Mosul killed a teenager who's only crime was running away to marry a Muslim man whom she loved and converting to his religion.
For four months the girl had been given shelter by a local Muslim Sheik. It was reported that in the last few days her family persuaded her to return home, convincing her that she had been forgiven by her parents and relatives for her mistake.
In a short mobile video clip which appears to have been taken by locals at seen of the murder, the girl is seen being ambushed on her way home by a group of up to 1000 men who were waiting for her to return; the men killed her in the most brutal way possible, by throwing large stones on her head. The following clips show that while she is alive and crying for help she is taunted and kicked in her stomach until someone finishes her off by throwing a large stone on her face.
Warning, the video is highly disturbing and not for the faint of heart.
This goes to show, that Sharia Law is an abomination of Justice.
~Alistair
Muslim or not sharia or not, I don't understand how can so many people be so inhuman. I don't know of any other beings capable of such cruelty!
Posts: 194 | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: I am not apologizing for Sharia there is nothing to apologize for I am merely pointing to your obvious ignorance.
Stoning an unmarried girl (or male) is not prescribed in Islamic Sharia. Just doesn’t happen, it is forbidden to do so. You read an article and that coupled with your biased presumptions obviously prompted you in starting a thread despite your obvious ignorance in Sharia.
Your connection between Yazdis' actions and Sharia were fallacious, that is all, don't take it personal.
You were wrong, simple as that.
You are a liar, or maybe you're just ignorant.
Stoning to death is prescribed in Sharia Law, as evidenced by the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim from which it is derived, and some Islamic nations which use stoning to death as a penalty for adultery.
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: For having a Sunni boyfriend
quote:According to the Kurdish website Jebar.info up to 1000 men from the Yezidi Kurdish community of Mosul killed a teenager who's only crime was running away to marry a Muslim man whom she loved and converting to his religion.
For four months the girl had been given shelter by a local Muslim Sheik. It was reported that in the last few days her family persuaded her to return home, convincing her that she had been forgiven by her parents and relatives for her mistake.
In a short mobile video clip which appears to have been taken by locals at seen of the murder, the girl is seen being ambushed on her way home by a group of up to 1000 men who were waiting for her to return; the men killed her in the most brutal way possible, by throwing large stones on her head. The following clips show that while she is alive and crying for help she is taunted and kicked in her stomach until someone finishes her off by throwing a large stone on her face.
Warning, the video is highly disturbing and not for the faint of heart.
This goes to show, that Sharia Law is an abomination of Justice.
~Alistair
Muslim or not sharia or not, I don't understand how can so many people be so inhuman. I don't know of any other beings capable of such cruelty!
I agree and to stigmatize Islam for the murder of this 17 year old girl exacerbates the situation.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: You are a liar, or maybe you're just ignorant.
Stoning to death is prescribed in Sharia Law, as evidenced by the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim from which it is derived, and some Islamic nations which use stoning to death as a penalty for adultery.
I suggest you do some research.
~Alistair
Re-Read what i wrote and quote me on what you assume to be lies.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: Re-Read what i wrote and quote me on what you assume to be lies.
Ah, you're claiming because this girl was UNMARRIED, that she did not commit adultery and therefore did not warrant being stoned to death?
It matters not, because the inspiration for such punishment is still SHARIA LAW.
If she was convicted of adultery, I would still be outraged by this incident, and I would still think Sharia Law is an abomination.
~Alistair
Bingo!
What I believe is irrelevant; however I personally don’t condone the murder of anyone for having sexual affairs. Yes Sharia prescribes stoning for married adulterous Muslims.
The discrepancies I found in your post and to which I obviously pointed to were:
1: She is not a Muslim 2: She was not married
I try my best to contain my emotions when posting about Religion and Politics. I wholeheartedly appreciate factual information and prefer to limit it to that.
It beneficial to discussion when we avoid taking things personal imho.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: 1: She is not a Muslim
It doesn't matter. Yezidism has very strong Islamic influence, and thats where the stoning penalty came from.
Would you tell the stoners this girl should not be stoned because she's not a Muslim?
quote:2: She was not married
Yes, she was not married, but again it does not matter.
The only thing that matters is that she died in a horrendous fashion, and the inspiration for such a death came from Sharia Law.
Even though this application was misguided, the results are STILL THE SAME.
quote:I try my best to contain my emotions when posting about Religion and Politics. I wholeheartedly appreciate factual information and prefer to limit it to that.
It beneficial to discussion when we avoid taking things personal imho.
Yeah, I apologize for what I said earlier.
Things like this make me angry, and I lost my temper.
If there's one thing I hate, it's injustice; especially when done under the confines of the Law.
posted
its murder, no matter how you try to look at it, ppl killing ppl in the name of God is just ridiculous.
Posts: 100 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: 1: She is not a Muslim
It doesn't matter. Yezidism has very strong Islamic influence, and thats where the stoning penalty came from.
Would you tell the stoners this girl should not be stoned because she's not a Muslim?
quote:2: She was not married
Yes, she was not married, but again it does not matter.
The only thing that matters is that she died in a horrendous fashion, and the inspiration for such a death came from Sharia Law.
Even though this application was misguided, the results are STILL THE SAME.
quote:I try my best to contain my emotions when posting about Religion and Politics. I wholeheartedly appreciate factual information and prefer to limit it to that.
It beneficial to discussion when we avoid taking things personal imho.
Yeah, I apologize for what I said earlier.
Things like this make me angry, and I lost my temper.
If there's one thing I hate, it's injustice; especially when done under the confines of the Law.
~Alistair
I am pretty much in the dark with when it comes to influences Islam might have had on “Yezidism”. Actually my limited knowledge of Yezidis is in part to a causal conversation I had with an Iraqi. He told me all sorts of things about them and most of them were good. He told me they were very honorable and many of them were high ranking soldiers in Saddam Hussein’s Republican Guard. Apparently there was mutual respect between the Yezidis and Saddam. There loyalty to Saddam was reward with many rights in addition to protection especially from the Sunnis. Yeah, they have a unique religion as I mentioned elsewhere that they refuse to eat leafy vegetables because they believe Satan hides in the leaves.
Regarding stoning I made my position clear by clearing stating that I do not condone the murder of anyone for having sexual affairs, married or not.
Indeed she died in the most appalling and terrifying way, it’s really despicable. Whether her death was ‘inspired’ by Islam I really don’t know as I have indicated above my ignorance of Yezidism. I don’t even know which religion predated the other.
Sharia Law is an Islamic law simple as that. It is the law in a few places in the Middle East. Namely in Iran, KSA and Sudan and it is their law, it is really as simple as that. The intricacies are of Sharia law are very complex and I would imagine vary from one territory to the next. I certainly don’t have a firm grasp of it save for the authentic traditions that of relevance.
I heard a jeweler was lashed 40 times because he flirted with a woman in a jewelry store in Saudia Arabia. How they deduced such a penalty I am in puzzlement, when clearly authentic traditions substantiate a conversation between Prophet Muhammad (saw) and an early Muslims in which the man admitted to the Prophet (saw):
I have done everything imaginable with a woman save sexual intercourse
The prophet told him you did nothing.
So i really don't know how they deduce their judgments but i do know blatant flagrancy exist with their rulings hence my opposition to Islamic judges.
Apology accepted Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: For having a Sunni boyfriend
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: a teenager who's only crime was running away to marry a Muslim man whom she loved and converting to his religion.
WAT IS THE CRIME? HAVING A SUNNI BOYFIREND OR MARRIAGE OR CONVERTING? Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was married to a iraqi and they do not worship Satan ..not sure where you found this imformation from.
Posts: 212 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by marydotapple: I was married to a iraqi and they do not worship Satan ..not sure where you found this imformation from.
Your husband might very well be Iraqi but I guess he isn’t a Yazidi. My information came from an Iraqi but i will satisfy your ignorance by quoting the ever popular wikipedia:
Yazidis are primarily ethnic Kurds, and most live near Mosul, Iraq with smaller communities in Armenia
The principal feature of their worship, however, is Satan under the name of Muluk-Taus
posted
Thank you for your kind words sobriguet towards me.But i think you lack igorance,to come on ES and tell someone you dont even know that you will satisfy their ignorance..I do hope you enjpy your day.
Posts: 212 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: This goes to show, that Sharia Law is an abomination of Justice.
~Alistair
Isn't Stoning is in the Bible, also?
Christians follow the teachings of Christ (hence they are CHRISTians). Jesus is rewriting the Torah ruling on stoning adulterers he is also discarding all of Leviticus 20 as outdated and unnecessarily cruel.
... and here is Jesus's judgement on this passage ...
The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, they said to him, ‘Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the Law [the Torah] Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?’ They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’ And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ She said, ‘No one, sir.’ And Jesus said, ‘Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.’ (John 8:3-11)
Jesus does tell the woman to *sin no more*, thereby confirming that her act was sinful, but the punishment was wrong. The moral of the story is hate the sin not the sinner. Jesus is not denying the sin, he is rejecting the cruel punishment for adultery in the Jewish Torah.
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: This goes to show, that Sharia Law is an abomination of Justice.
~Alistair
Isn't Stoning is in the Bible, also?
Christians follow the teachings of Christ (hence they are CHRISTians). Jesus is rewriting the Torah ruling on stoning adulterers he is also discarding all of Leviticus 20 as outdated and unnecessarily cruel.
... and here is Jesus's judgement on this passage ...
The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, they said to him, ‘Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the Law [the Torah] Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?’ They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’ And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ She said, ‘No one, sir.’ And Jesus said, ‘Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.’ (John 8:3-11)
Jesus does tell the woman to *sin no more*, thereby confirming that her act was sinful, but the punishment was wrong. The moral of the story is hate the sin not the sinner. Jesus is not denying the sin, he is rejecting the cruel punishment for adultery in the Jewish Torah.
So is it fair to say stoning is in the Old Testament, the Torah,?
Posts: 478 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Stoning is an ancient tribal habit to keep all noses in one direction, no wonder it pops up in religious books. Becaus Jesus was hanged on a cross there is no reason why we should incorporate such means in our current justicesystem. Who knows how people further on will judge our current jailsystem let alone the still performed deathpenalties. I do hope we progress somehow in humanity hopefully in understanding the message of justice and love that is in our holy books also.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: Ah, you're claiming because this girl was UNMARRIED, that she did not commit adultery and therefore did not warrant being stoned to death?
It matters not, because the inspiration for such punishment is still SHARIA LAW.
If she was convicted of adultery, I would still be outraged by this incident, and I would still think Sharia Law is an abomination.
~Alistair
Um, why are you going after Sobriquet so hard? I thought what s/he posted (sorry Sobriquet, don't know your gender) was very interesting.
Stoning for adultery is not just a sharia thing, it's common in all the Abrahamic faiths, historically speaking at least. It's in the Bible -- Deuteronomy -- so my guess is that it was probably a cultural thing that was adopted as an aspect of monotheistic religion.
I'm not condoning it in any way. It's not acceptable to me, whether in the Bible or hadith. It's disgusting to think about. I'm just saying I think calling Sobriquet an apologist is incorrect. And kind of ad hominem when you get down to it.
Edit: Oh, I should have read further. Others have already brought up stoning has historical roots in Judaism and Christianity...
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin No More: Edit: Oh, I should have read further. Others have already brought up stoning has historical roots in Judaism and Christianity...
In Christianity Gospel John 8:7 Jesus said: "Let anyone who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."
Before Jesus there was Moses Law punishing the sin and after Jesus there is a grace law where Jesus came to heal the sin from its source which is inside Hearts not punishing the crime as it's useless it will be repeated again while the heart who is doing the sin,if you have a clean and light heart you won't do sin....the main point that prophet Muhammed neglected Jesus's grace era and returned back to Moses law..eye by eye..stone adultry...etc and now Muslims are harvest what their prophet seeds.
Try to C light.
Posts: 903 | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: Ah, you're claiming because this girl was UNMARRIED, that she did not commit adultery and therefore did not warrant being stoned to death?
It matters not, because the inspiration for such punishment is still SHARIA LAW.
If she was convicted of adultery, I would still be outraged by this incident, and I would still think Sharia Law is an abomination.
~Alistair
Um, why are you going after Sobriquet so hard? I thought what s/he posted (sorry Sobriquet, don't know your gender) was very interesting.
Stoning for adultery is not just a sharia thing, it's common in all the Abrahamic faiths, historically speaking at least. It's in the Bible -- Deuteronomy -- so my guess is that it was probably a cultural thing that was adopted as an aspect of monotheistic religion.
I'm not condoning it in any way. It's not acceptable to me, whether in the Bible or hadith. It's disgusting to think about. I'm just saying I think calling Sobriquet an apologist is incorrect. And kind of ad hominem when you get down to it.
Edit: Oh, I should have read further. Others have already brought up stoning has historical roots in Judaism and Christianity...
Wow! Someone actually defended me (my argument).
Let me pinch myself
Thank you Snoozin and I’m a male Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
You know, i cant even imagine that those men can do this to an inocent little girl and continue even through her screams dont they have a heart why cant they realise that love is love she didnt deserve this torcher for love i think its time to move on from these terrible ways
posted
Stoning is barbaric and only evil savages would behave in such a way. Do we need to watch a video clip or debate religion to know this? Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would never open the video because I would not be able to erase this barbarism from my mind EVER...it is insane that ANY DECENT, MORAL HUMAN would try and defend this...
Why do so many Muslims refuse to condemn this type of behavior? While this particular case the person was not a Muslim but rather something I know nothing of...never heard of Yesid or whatever...but we hear everyday on the Net or News of a stoning in Saudi, Pakistan, Iran or Afghanistan...all at the hands of Muslims claiming "Allah wills it"...
I don't get how any normal, decent, human being that has a shred of morality or heart or empathy is capable of believing Allah would EVER prescribe such injustice.
Batty or Sultan or any of you who believe this is OK you are a stain on the purity of Islam and are a scourge that shall surely one day be eradicated.
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Announcement/stoning2.jpg This is of many others to barbaric to actually post The condemned is wrapped in a sheet and buried up to his/her wait. The Muslim mob gather around her and throw stones at her while shouting Allah is great. Stoning is the punishment for adultery and homosexuality. APPARENTLY THESE COUNTRYS SUPPORT THE STONING AND SAY ITS SHARIAH LAW . Country President / Leader Title E-mail 1. Sudan His Excellency Lieutenant General Omar Hassan al-Bashir President of the Republic of Sudan kahmed@sudanembassy.org, info@sudanembassy.org 2. Egypt His Excellency Mohammed Husni Mubarak President of the Arab Republic of Egypt embassy@egyptembdc.org 3. Saudi Arabia King Fahad Bin Abdulaziz Custodien of the Two Holy Mosques info@saudiembassy.net 4. Jordan King Adbullah II King of the Hashemite Kindom of Jordan HKJEmbassyDC@aol.com 5. Nigeria His Excellency Olusegun Obasanjo President of the Republic president.obasanjo@nigeriagov.org, webmaster@nigeria.gov.ng 6. Iran His Excellency Mohammed Khatami President of the Islamic Republic of Iran matbuat@mfa.gov.ir, info@iran-embassy.org.uk 7. Afghanistan Ambassador: Dr..Abdul Ravan Farhadi Ambassador for Afghanistan in New York AfgWatan@aol.com,
Consulate@aol.com
8. Pakistan General Pervez Musharraf President & Chief Executive of Pakistan CE@pak.gov.pk
I perosnaly have no girevance to my faith but on the contrary im look further i would not or wouldnt want to be in a situation of this kind be it of my own children or of family or friend I would need a personal reference to where and which word is used for it for the stoning Does NY ONE KNOW OF THE PROSTITUTE STORY AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMED {PBUH ]THAT IS A GOOD STORY TO HERE SETS YOU SLIGHTLY STRAIGHT . As muslims it quotes on fornication and adultry and stealing and what the punishment is exspecially living in a ISLAMIC COUNTRY but as most of us now live in a western society the acts are commited without a hitch but to do the same in the shariah country comes with concquences if caught and then most here call for shariah law well do they really no what intales if to live undershariah law western muslims realy have no clue .To know of shariah law is to live under the ruling os shariah law permanently there you get the jist of it better but i mean a really strict country Saudi Arabia or the other beginging with M . But living under shariah law hasnt stopped some unlawful acts commited by people . I LIKE THIS QUOTE FROM ISA {PBUH}"JESUS" "HE/SHE IS OR WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE"
JUST SAW TITLE 17 KILLED BY 1,000 MEN FROM WHAT I SAW WOMEN WERE INVOLVED TOO AND WHO THE HELL COUNTED DID THEY COUNT THE STONES AND ISIT TRUE THE STONES HAVE TO BE BURIED WIT HER AND DOES SHE GET FULL BURIAL RIGHTS AFTERWARDS .
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for speaking out....all of those people you referenced, those so called hypocritical leaders...they are all cowards and liars...any Muslim who refuses to speak against this evil is a coward and a fraud
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't care what this girls' situation is, this is absolutely disgusting and I was horrified to see it. I'm waiting for the man to be stoned to death, too. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
what i want to know if they say its shariah then where the hell is it ordered for stoning i know its mentioned but any way if it was ordered by Allah to do this just saying would you then agree it as a devout muslim . Im agrreing with Sobriquet on this debate actually i need proper proof and im looking and getting only glitz on it still trying to fathom this area out for over a number of years . my EX HISBAND TOLD ME ONCE HE SAW STONING IN AFRICA OF A MARRIED MAN AND MARRIED WOMAN OF DIFFERENT PARTNERS STONED TO DEATH AND FLOGGED IN PUBLIC HE AS AMUSLIM COULD NOTGET HIS HEAD ROUND THIS BUT HE SAID MOST MUSLIMS WAS ENJOYING IT THIS WAS ABOUT 30YEARS AGO SOME ATTITUDES HAVE CHANGED OF THIS ..
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
It is haram to watch television but halal to watch beheadings and stoning. It is haram to listen to music but halal to listen to wailing of innocent women and children of the beheaded critics and apostates. It is haram to marry an adult pagan woman but halal to marry an underage Muslim child. It is haram to slaughter an animal in a name other than God but halal to slaughter a human being in the name of God. It is haram to trade alcohol but halal to trade human beings. It is haram for a woman to have more than one husband but halal for a husband to have more than one wife. It is halal to let young girls burn in fire but haram to rescue them if they do not have hijab. It is halal to stone a woman by burying her in a hole dug to her shoulders to maintain her "hijab" but haram to stone her on a flat ground and risk her "hijab". It is haram to buy mortgage to acquire a house for your family but halal to buy a woman from a slave market to sleep with her. It is haram for a woman even to show her face to a namahram man but halal for a man to disrobe and inspect a namahram woman before buying her in a slave market. It is haram to steal an egg from a Muslim, punishable by cutting hands and feet, but halal to rob non Muslim's commercial caravans, rewarded by share of the booty.
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: Ah, you're claiming because this girl was UNMARRIED, that she did not commit adultery and therefore did not warrant being stoned to death?
It matters not, because the inspiration for such punishment is still SHARIA LAW.
If she was convicted of adultery, I would still be outraged by this incident, and I would still think Sharia Law is an abomination.
~Alistair
Um, why are you going after Sobriquet so hard? I thought what s/he posted (sorry Sobriquet, don't know your gender) was very interesting.
Stoning for adultery is not just a sharia thing, it's common in all the Abrahamic faiths, historically speaking at least. It's in the Bible -- Deuteronomy -- so my guess is that it was probably a cultural thing that was adopted as an aspect of monotheistic religion.
I'm not condoning it in any way. It's not acceptable to me, whether in the Bible or hadith. It's disgusting to think about. I'm just saying I think calling Sobriquet an apologist is incorrect. And kind of ad hominem when you get down to it.
Edit: Oh, I should have read further. Others have already brought up stoning has historical roots in Judaism and Christianity...
Wow! Someone actually defended me (my argument).
Let me pinch myself
Thank you Snoozin and I’m a male
You learn something new everyday, I had no idea you were a man! And by the way, I usually agree with many of your comments as well, especially political. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Conditioned: For having a Sunni boyfriend
quote:According to the Kurdish website Jebar.info up to 1000 men from the Yezidi Kurdish community of Mosul killed a teenager who's only crime was running away to marry a Muslim man whom she loved and converting to his religion.
For four months the girl had been given shelter by a local Muslim Sheik. It was reported that in the last few days her family persuaded her to return home, convincing her that she had been forgiven by her parents and relatives for her mistake.
In a short mobile video clip which appears to have been taken by locals at seen of the murder, the girl is seen being ambushed on her way home by a group of up to 1000 men who were waiting for her to return; the men killed her in the most brutal way possible, by throwing large stones on her head. The following clips show that while she is alive and crying for help she is taunted and kicked in her stomach until someone finishes her off by throwing a large stone on her face.
Warning, the video is highly disturbing and not for the faint of heart.
This goes to show, that Sharia Law is an abomination of Justice.
~Alistair
Everything you say is so indicative of how ignorant and how much of a bigot you are.
Stoning does not originate, nor is it necessarily a result of the influences of Sharia Law. Stoning is an ancient tradition that has been, and is, practiced all over the world. Don't be so damn stupid. It predates Islam, it predates Christianity, and it predates Judaism.
Yezidis are not Muslims of any kind- they are not a funky sect of Islam, they have no afflilation with Islam. Their use of stoning should be evidence to you that it is a cultural phenomena as much as a religious one.
And you attacked Sobriquet viciously, and with no reason. They were correct in their assessment, and you are wrong. Eat cake.
And Sobriquet, the Yazidi do NOT actually worship satan. One of the beings they worship is referred to as "Shaytan", but it does not have the same meaning as to Arabic speaking Christians and Muslims in Iraq. This has traditionally been the source of great confusion.
The girl was not only stoned for having a muslim husband, she converted to Islam as well. It had nothing to do with Sharia Law- (even if this case was about Muslims, you have to commit ADULTERY to get stoned- if she was unmarried and she entered a sexual relationship thats fornication and both parties would be lashed if it could be proven).
(I'm not condoning stoning by the way)
Posts: 140 | From: TX | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sumbula2: Stoning does not originate, nor is it necessarily a result of the influences of Sharia Law. Stoning is an ancient tradition that has been, and is, practiced all over the world. Don't be so damn stupid. It predates Islam, it predates Christianity, and it predates Judaism.
It doesn't matter who the "inventor" of stoning is. What matters is that Muhammad adopted this practise.
Muhammad (pbuh) followed the morality of his people. But that morality was ethically wrong. He claimed to be the best human and the last messenger of God. According to him God has said to people all he wanted to say in the Quran and his religion is complete. There is no more guidance to come and his examples and teachings are all we need to know and follow for eternity. Yet what he did and said, under the light of modern values prove to be very wrong.
Now we realize that we cannot live by his examples any more, nor can we practice his teachings. We would certainly put a man in jail if he wanted to follow the Sunnah of the prophet in this day and age and "marry" a 9-year-old child, and we don't stone people anymore.
You might argue that the society and times the Prophet lived in, were different times. But I fail to see the logic of it. Did Muhammad (pbuh) come to teach people the right way of living or follow their wrong way? So on one hand he said I am the perfect example, do as I do and on the other he did what the people of his time did, the very people whom he called ignorant. By doing so, he put the seal of approval on those vices and they became the pattern by which Muslims should live for eternity. Since Sharia laws and the Quran are absolutely immutable and valid for eternity, therefore, there is no hope that any harshness of these Islamic ‘divine’ laws can ever be diminished by reform or through peaceful means.
If we cannot follow the morality of Muhammad (pbuh) any more, if what he said and did do not fit in this modern day, why we need Muhammad (pbuh)? What part of his teachings should we accept and what part should we discard? Who will determine that? This is an important question. If we give ourselves the freedom to pick and choose the teachings that most suit us we should give the same freedom to others.
If it is a bad custom of the people of those times, why he did it and why should Muslims follow his example even now? If what he did was wrong, and he was just foolishly following the tradition of the ignorant people of his time, at least he should have said, don’t do what I am doing. This is wrong. why he said emulate me because I am the perfect example? by saying these were the practices of those time, are you implying that they are wrong now. If so doesn't this mean emulating Muhammad (pbuh) is wrong today? Didn’t he call the pagans ignorant? If so, why did he follow their ways? Why Jesus did not do any of these things? Why he lived a saintly life and why his teachings are all good? Why he did not follow the vices of his people? Why Buddha did not imitate the evil practices of the people of his time? It is like someone claiming to be a physician telling everyone you are wrong and ignorant, your shamans and medicine men are charlatan and this is not how you cure patients and then he starts practicing in the way that the shamans do. Would you accept such a charlatan as a physician? What Muhammad (pbuh) brought that was new? The only think new that he brought and did not exist is Jihad. Everything else existed prior to him. The belief in Allah existed, hajj existed, fasting existed, salat existed, zakat existed, all the rituals and superstitions about jinn, angels and Satan existed. Muhammad (pbuh) only changed somewhat these superstitions and rituals.
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
When someone makes the point that this is a result of sharia, when its not, thats wrong. You just want to blame every damn thing on Islam.
But I understand that you have no problem in presenting things incorrectly.
This is because you are an unethical person, who only disservices Christianity every time you post something.
All of Gods prophets before Muhammad condoned stoning (according to the Bible and judeo-christian traditions)- you have a problem with that, maybe you should alter your texts...a little bit more, or just admit the truth instead of pulling that bull shyt card about what Jesus "said". Its a part of Judaism, and its a part of Christianity, and if it is SO inherently EVIL, then your God is evil, as he prescribed it. Don't tell me something so horrific was permitted to Gods people- and it only became evil once Jesus arrived? God's sense of right and wrong seems pretty flaky according to you.
Now go away and start posting some islamaphobic propaganda that you pull off of fundo websites.
Posts: 140 | From: TX | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
First of all I didn't call you any names. Watch your mouth and who you are talking to.
Second of all, it is not true that Jesus (you do consider him a Prophet right?) condoned stoning. (see post above)
Christianity offers humans dignity. It treats their sins through spiritual transformation in accordance with Christ’s death on the Cross. No longer do we have to undergo the severe physical punishments outlined in the Old Testament, for such sins as adultery. Jesus Christ has fulfilled that aspect (and many others) of this sacred text. He suffered the ultimate penalty in our stead. Now, under the New Covenant, the Church seeks sinners, not to punish them by hitting them with rocks or crushing them with stonewalls, but with the message of repentance, forgiveness, and restoration. But if they refuse, then they are free to go their own way. That is the risk of freedom, but the Church does not persecute them by reinstituting the penalties in the Old Covenant.
In contrast, sharia ultimately degrades society and diminishes freedom. It does not promote human rights or simple justice. Islam would drag all of us backwards to a diluted old law, enslaving us under judgment and severity.
quote:Originally posted by Sumbula2: Don't tell me something so horrific was permitted to Gods people- and it only became evil once Jesus arrived?
Allah asserts that he has brought clear guidance and light to the People of the Book—Jews and Christians (the Book is the Bible), bringing them out of darkness, as if things had been muddied.
5:15 People of the Book [Jews and Christians] . . . a light has now come to you from God, and a Scripture [the Quran] making things clear, 16 with which God guides them who follow what pleases Him to ways of peace, bringing them from darkness out into light, by His will, and guiding them to a straight path. (Haleem, the Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004. His translation is used in this article, unless otherwise noted) (cf. Sura 4:157)
These two verses throw down a challenge to Christianity (and Judaism).
For their part, Christians honor and revere the Old Testament as inspired by God. However, Christ says that he has come to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17-20), and the inspired New Testament authors are in perfect agreement. Therefore, if a religion claims that it is better, but goes backwards to the Old Testament in such matters, then this claim is an automatic signal that the religion is misguided—from a New Testament point of view. Why?
Christ has fulfilled the Old Testament. So at the same time that the Quran asserts that it shines a light for Christians, does it drag them back to the Old Testament? Does the Quran really shine a light on Christians, bring them out of darkness, and guide them along a better path?
The truth is that the Quran goes backwards to the Old Testament and distorts this holy book. This is reason enough for Christians to reject the Quran. It does not enlighten them, bring them out of darkness, and guide them along a better path.
For Christians, Christ fulfills the Old Testament, so returning to it in the way that Islam prescribes necessarily means that Christians would be regressing, not progressing. Christians honor and revere the Old Testament, and they can learn timeless truths in it, but they certainly should not follow the Quran’s misinterpretation of the Old Testament.
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mohammed stoned an adulterous woman brought before him. Jesus said to the mob who brought such a woman before him "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Jesus had no sin, so he could have rightly cast the first stone, but he did not.
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sumbula2: Everything you say is so indicative of how ignorant and how much of a bigot you are.
Do I know you?
quote:Stoning does not originate, nor is it necessarily a result of the influences of Sharia Law. Stoning is an ancient tradition that has been, and is, practiced all over the world. Don't be so damn stupid. It predates Islam, it predates Christianity, and it predates Judaism.
True. People in that part of the World in particular seem to have an affinity for the stone, and I wouldn't be surprised if it did predate any Abrahamic religion.
However, Muslims to my knowledge are the ONLY people that still practice this vile and barbaric form of torture, which is why I associate stoning with Muslims and Sharia Law.
quote:Yezidis are not Muslims of any kind- they are not a funky sect of Islam, they have no afflilation with Islam. Their use of stoning should be evidence to you that it is a cultural phenomena as much as a religious one.
I've already been through this. Yezidism is not Islam I agree, but it has been very strongly influenced by it, and has taken many elements found in Islam to form itself.
Yezidis' strong connection with Islam could easily explain why they, LIKE MUSLIMS, still practice stoning to death.
quote:And you attacked Sobriquet viciously, and with no reason. They were correct in their assessment, and you are wrong. Eat cake.
I alread apologized to Sobriquet, so f*ck off.
quote:The girl was not only stoned for having a muslim husband, she converted to Islam as well. It had nothing to do with Sharia Law- (even if this case was about Muslims, you have to commit ADULTERY to get stoned- if she was unmarried and she entered a sexual relationship thats fornication and both parties would be lashed if it could be proven).
(I'm not condoning stoning by the way)
Everything you've mentioned here was already mentioned by Sobriquet.
The fact is, Yezidism was heavily influenced by Islam, and along with the Muslims, the Yezidis are one of the few peoples that still practice this ancient form of torture.
Therefore, the connection to Sharia Law and Islam should not be dismissed offhandedly.
quote:Originally posted by Sumbula2: Everything you say is so indicative of how ignorant and how much of a bigot you are.
Do I know you?
quote:Stoning does not originate, nor is it necessarily a result of the influences of Sharia Law. Stoning is an ancient tradition that has been, and is, practiced all over the world. Don't be so damn stupid. It predates Islam, it predates Christianity, and it predates Judaism.
True. People in that part of the World in particular seem to have an affinity for the stone, and I wouldn't be surprised if it did predate any Abrahamic religion.
However, Muslims to my knowledge are the ONLY people that still practice this vile and barbaric form of torture, which is why I associate stoning with Muslims and Sharia Law.
quote:Yezidis are not Muslims of any kind- they are not a funky sect of Islam, they have no afflilation with Islam. Their use of stoning should be evidence to you that it is a cultural phenomena as much as a religious one.
I've already been through this. Yezidism is not Islam I agree, but it has been very strongly influenced by it, and has taken many elements found in Islam to form itself.
Yezidis' strong connection with Islam could easily explain why they, LIKE MUSLIMS, still practice stoning to death.
quote:And you attacked Sobriquet viciously, and with no reason. They were correct in their assessment, and you are wrong. Eat cake.
I alread apologized to Sobriquet, so f*ck off.
quote:The girl was not only stoned for having a muslim husband, she converted to Islam as well. It had nothing to do with Sharia Law- (even if this case was about Muslims, you have to commit ADULTERY to get stoned- if she was unmarried and she entered a sexual relationship thats fornication and both parties would be lashed if it could be proven).
(I'm not condoning stoning by the way)
Everything you've mentioned here was already mentioned by Sobriquet.
The fact is, Yezidism was heavily influenced by Islam, and along with the Muslims, the Yezidis are one of the few peoples that still practice this ancient form of torture.
Therefore, the connection to Sharia Law and Islam should not be dismissed offhandedly.
~Alistair
I am curious 'The Conditioned' could you submit some academic material supporting you assumptions that Islam influenced Yazdanism? Something brief would be appreciative. Do not take this personal but it seems you have read some material on the connection.
I won't be surprised if a connection was made but i prefer academia's influence.
Posts: 2079 | From: 'by any means necessary' - Malcom X | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Argh. It *always* degenerates into name calling. There is some interesting stuff here I'd like to learn more about.
But I was told a LONG time ago not to look to ES for anything substantive on religion. I need to heed these wise words.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic