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Quraneyeens: The Egyptian Police Latest Victims
15 Egyptians now languish in prison. Their charge? They are Quraneyeens. Now I bet very few people in Egypt know about the El Quraneyeens. They’re Muslims who believe in the Quran, and only the Quran. In traditional Sunni Islam, religious jurispudence and law are mainly derived from two main books: the Quran and the Hadith. The Quran we all know. But what about the Hadith? These are the actions and deeds of the Prophet Muhammed. The issue with the Hadith is this: they were written over 150 years after the death of the Prophet. Before that they were transmitted orally in a way that would make their utter authenticity pretty doubtful.
Even today no scholar or religious figure can dare to declare that the entire volumes we have now at hand are all authentic. This is the reason why the Hadith are classified into strong and weak Hadiths.
Another issue with the Hadith is the fact that many of Islam’s controversial issues are found in the Hadith and not the Quran. Things such as the status of women and Sharia’s penal code were derived from the Hadith. Even the adult breast feeding fatwa has its roots in a Hadith.
Now, after the controversy caused by the breast feeding fatwa, there has been increasing voices calling for the “purging” of the Hadith by removing or discrediting Hadiths that contradict common sense. The highest religious authority in Turkey has already done that.
However, since I live in a country that prefers to brush controversial issues under the rug instead of confronting them, whomever ventures into this topic either gets silenced by the religious figures here or gets arrested by the regime that appoints these figures. This is what happened to the Quraneyeens. Just a few weeks ago, the police arrested 15 Quraneyeens, among them authors and editors in the group’s website Ahl El Quran (people of the Quran) (English version here). The website is headed by the Quraneyeen’s most popular figure: Dr. Ahmed Sobhi Mansour.
Dr. Ahmed Sobhi Mansour (pic above), a former professor at Al Azhar University (Sunni Islam’s most prestigious learning institution) was sacked from his job after he wrote a book arguing against the authenticity of the Hadith and calling for the sole dependence on the Quran. Mansour did not only lose his job, but he was arrested in 1988 and had all his books confiscated. He was released and went to work with the late thinker and author Farag Fouda who was murdered by terrorists in 1994. Mansour now lives in the U.S. and is a member of Free Muslims, the only American Muslim organization that held an anti-terror rally.
Now a quick browse through Mansour’s articles on his website shows that he argues against the hair cover, the killing of those who converted out of Islam, and the stoning of adulterers. That’s pretty cool stuff. Cool stuff that makes infidel souls such as myself stop being infidels!
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Thanks for this - at last I know where I belong! I spent hours argueing about many haddiths
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tutandmoan: Thanks for this - at last I know where I belong! I spent hours argueing about many haddiths
Hadith scholars are for explaining cuz they understand better. not because u don understand hadith( context, or correct meanig) u belong urslef to quraneyon.
the prophet in Quran said that one should ask people who know when he don't understand. Quran also said to obey Allah and his prophet. and once one obey his prophet he is guided.
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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Batman, I understand what you r saying, but so many scholars claim to understand, so many have different explainations, and all have their own reasons for making a judgement about something. It is easy to follow the way of our Prophet peace be upon him, for he himself must have followed the way of the holy book. For scholars to tell me the prophet drank urine or told others to do it is something I prefer not to follow. scholars do not always understand better with everything. Haddiths are like the new testament, written by men after the death of the prophet some with their own agenda. How do we know who or what to believe with so many interpretations from so many schools of thought? Simple, I ask Allah for guidance with this, and I have faith He will answer me. In the holy book we are told to read and read until we understand, to look out for the shaytarn fakes. I didnt remember reading anywhere that the haddith are the word of Allah, and so will be protected from corruption
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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we have agreed on some things in the past, but dont assume I am not well read or have scholar friends. In fact some of my dear friends are members of Saudi royal family - a knowledgeable sheikh, he visits my house in UK with his family, we have many discussions but it is very noticeable that he has some ideas different to mine, and even to his own wife. when the women go to private rooms we talk women talk and notice some of the differences. I also know some egytpian imams from the london mosque, they too have some differing ideas.
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote: For scholars to tell me the prophet drank urine or told others to do it is something I prefer not to follow.
follow what?
????
If is it the camel urine , you should know that a lot of medicines today is extracted from urine of animals. The story that those people had liver problems and the prophet knew medicine to take . he told them to drink the camles milks n urine then they got over the disease.
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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The scientific facts about some animals' urine:
A comment from sister Nicole Woods, an American young sister who embraced Islam; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with her: "I just wanted to share the news with you that in products such as tylenol or asparine (not sure which but u can check the labels), there is an ingredient called PREMARIN. Biology majors here tell me that the name stands for PREgnant MARe urIN. Of course, no one would put unprocessed urine into medication... i'm sure it's boiled or pasteurized or something. But the ingredient is used very much in the way the prophet (peace be upon him) suggested using camel urine.. such as for headaches. oh, well, i'm sure to you it sounds disgusting... think of it next time u reach for tylenol or asparine *wink*"
Further from a Muslimah, who works in the Medical field as a Mammographer; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with her: "Estrogen product called PREMARIN is given to postmenopausal Women. This PREMARIN is extracted from HORSE URINE. The Estrogen product is hormones given to women."
"Here is another miracle in the Hadeeth. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) in a hadeeth told someone to drink camel's urine as a medical treatment. . Even I, thought this was a strange hadeeth. But look, in America, they have been driking horse urine for a long time as a cure.
Just like the Quran says, 41:53: "Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
go to www.premarin.org for the following. (also see premarin.com)
Premarin® stands for Pregnant Mares' Urine (PREgnant MARes' urINe)
Premarin (including Prempro, Premphase, Prempac, and Premelle) is a drug made up of conjugated estrogens obtained from the urine of pregnant mares -- put out in many forms (pills, creams, injections, patches, vaginal rings) and is used to reduce the symptoms of menopause in women or women who have had a hysterectomy. It is also prescribed to nearly eliminate the risk of osteoporosis (the brittling of bones) and reduce the chance of heart disease in women over 50."
Further from brother Abdul Hafiz; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
The Prophet prescribing Camel Urine as medicine:
First of all, let us clarify the reason and story behind the prescription. Some people had become very ill at the time of the prophet, and were suffering from an unknown illness. Their bellies had swollen and they were not in a fit state. Hence, the prophet said to them, that they would find a cure in the milk and urine of a camel and so he sent them out to an area where camels were grazing. These men went to this area and drank the milk and urine. Sure enough, just like the Prophet said, they were cured and became fit and healthy.
However, at the same time, evil thoughts entered their minds and they decided they wanted the camels for themselves. They therefore killed the owner, and made off with the camels. When news of the murder reached the prophet, he sent an envoy to capture the men, and when they were captured and brought before the prophet, capital punishment was meted out to them.
Having read this story, what do we conclude from it? The answering islam team would have us believe that this Hadith means that drinking camel urine is permissible in Islam. This is INCORRECT. The real meaning of this Hadith is that if a person needs to consume an impure and impermissible substance as a cure for an illness, and no other reasonable alternative is available, then it is permissible. In all other circumstances, camel urine is prohibited.
Scientists from the United Arab Emirates have proposed using one of the world's hardiest mammals - the camel - in the campaign to fight and eradicate human diseases. _1702393_cows150.jpg (11379 bytes)
Camels are free from viruses such as foot and mouth
A team led by Dr Sabah Jassim from the Zayed Complex for Herbal Research and Traditional Medicine has suggested that camels are highly resistant to many deadly viral diseases and their antibodies could be used for new drugs.
Camels have a unique physiology which allows them to thrive in some of the world's harshest environments.
They can survive the perils of desert dehydration by storing water in their bloodstream; they can survive lack of food by holding extra fatty tissue in their humps; their milk stays fresh much longer than that of a cow.
Natural immunity
But as well as these advantages, they have immune systems that are so robust, they remain free from many of the viral diseases that affect other mammals, such as foot-and-mouth and rinderpest.
The antibodies that camels carry inside them are structurally much simpler than those of humans, and Dr Sabah Jassim suggests they would be much simpler to replicate artificially than human antibodies.
Writing in the British Institute of Biology's magazine, The Biologist, Dr Jassim says the small size of camel antibodies would also allow them to penetrate deep into human tissue and cells that would not be otherwise accessible.
He said the camel antibodies, by being transported from the desert sands into the laboratory test tube, have the potential to be a vital weapon against human diseases.
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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what about Camel's sh..it with cup of urine Batman?! try it you may heal quickly..because you are the only one who need this medicine.. Bon appetite don't forget to follow the other hadith of drinking tea with the fly who dropped down. http://www.quran.org/trashhadith.htmPosts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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What a load of rubbish Batman - and this is the first time I have ever said this to anyone on this forum! I wasnt talking about medications - I believe the great fatwa from the haddith was that the prophet himself drank his OWN urine and said it would not hurt others to do the same. I DONT believe this. I read a book once called "The medicines of the prophet" in this book they state that the prophet advises to keep things like amulets or charms to ward off illness!!! I DONT believe that either. There are so many haddith I have read which are different from the holy book or more strict, and so many books written by crazy so called religious scholars who claim to be directly interpreting haddith you can be tempted by the devil himself by these ways. Allah protected the holy book from corruption, but he didnt promise to protect haddith from corruption, and Allah knows all, so he must have known haddiths would be written, and if they were that important He could have told of the coming of the haddith and that He would protect that also
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote: I believe the great fatwa from the haddith was that the prophet himself drank his OWN urine and said it would not hurt others to do the same.
Show Us the Hadith!!
(u defintely didnt read what i write?)
UM- while I've never heard of a hadith like that-
I WOULD like to say that I learned in my Biology lectures that you CAN drink your own urine if you are ever in a situation where there is no water (like you're stranded in the desert)- because urine is mostly water and its sterile and safe- so as long as you dont have a urinary tract infection.
And Tutandmoan- I believe that the fact that you argue some hadith does not mean that you should condemn them all. We have to remember that shaytaan does put doubt in our heart. From personal experience, I've condemned things and later understood them or found them to be completely true. So when I dont understand something that has been established by some of the most learned muslims in historyi.e. Imaam Hanaf, Hanbali, Maliki and Shafi - I have patience and look for an answer. And I usually find one. Posts: 140 | From: TX | Registered: Aug 2006
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Dr. Ahmed Sobhi Mansour is our family friend and we highly respect him. Quraneyeens are not condemning hadiths - they treat them with extreme caution. Holy Q'uran is a Word of God, and must be treated as such, it is also the Highest Source of Islamic wisdom and rules. The word of a human is flawed, however can be found helpful. Quraneyeens are about common sense, not disrespect. Ps. We strongly believe that ideology should be confronted on the ideological dispute level, not police intervention.
Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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