posted
I wonder if Jesus would say that slaughtering 750,000 innocent Iraqi civilians was an act of self defense or would he call it terrorism?
Please only theological arguments.
Why war in Iraq is immoral?
Christian theology is classifying wars into two types:
1. just and 2. unjust wars.
First formulated by St. Augustine the just war theology specifies very strict principles that determine when Christians can engage in war.
Here are the basic principles of the just war theology. See if those could be applied to the war on Iraq:
Principle 1: A just war can only be waged as a last resort. All nonviolent options must be exhausted before the use of force is justified.
Principle 2: A just war can only be fought to redress a wrong suffered.
Principle 3: The violence used in the just war must be proportional to the injury suffered.
Principle 4: The weapons used in the just war must discriminate between combatants and non-combatants.
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posted
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36)
Jesus said, "I give you a new commandment: love one another; just as I have loved you, you also must love one another. By this love you have for one another, everyone will know that you are my disciples." Jn. 13.34-35
Jesus said, "I have told you all these so that you may find peace in me. In the world you will have trouble, but be brave: I have conquered the world." Jn. 16.33
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by freshsoda: Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36)
Ahhh that must be the escape goat verse!
Like George Bush i.e. would say: "God Bless America and Sh*t on everyone else!"
Fresh remember: Allah is the King of Kings! Al Malik
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Fresh remember: Allah is the King of Kings! Al Malik
what Jesus said is above your mentality,your earthy religion is matching your mind better,keep on.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Fresh remember: Allah is the King of Kings! Al Malik
what Jesus said is above your mentality, your earthy religion is matching your mind better,keep on.
Ummm Muslims are taught to respect Jesus (pbuh) and what he taught in the Gospels. Allah is the One God Christians worship...so to say this is above this posters mentality is harsh.
To address the post...Jesus (pbuh) would have said to obtain peace, show love and tolerance for our neighbors, to turn the other cheek and to forgive 70 X's 7. We weren't in danger from Iraq at the time of invasion. No more than from Iran or North Korea. North Korea was TESTING nuclear bombs...did we go invade?? No. Iran insists on restarting its nuclear program. Have we invaded? No. Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?? Where? Were any found? No. Political agendas...thats what that was about.
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posted
This is a no brainer: Jesus would say the invasion, destruction and occupation of Iraq was/is UNJUST and WRONG on every level: spiritual, religous, moral.
Just as Mohammed would comdemn 9/11, IED's; beheadings, suicide bombings and violent jihad.
It is only the masses of sheep in this world today that will try and use religon as a means to justify war, death and violence. These sheep exists across all ethnic, racial and religous divides.
Rare is the person who unequivocably denounces violence in any way, shape or form. The human condition (which is why we are ALL imperfect) tells us to justify bad behavior that ranges from mild to extreme.
Posts: 407 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Fresh remember: Allah is the King of Kings! Al Malik
what Jesus said is above your mentality,your earthy religion is matching your mind better,keep on.
See this further shows you know nothing about Islaam. Like the Prophet Muhammad said: Live in this life as though you are a traveler. Muslims (those who practice the deen) know that it is not this life that they seek or desire..it is the life (the Kingdom ) in the hereafter, but of course someone as intelligent as you HA HA should already know that.
BTW: You don't know what Jesus said..the first you have no verifiable Isnad.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by freshsoda: Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36)
Ahhh that must be the escape goat verse!
Like George Bush i.e. would say: "God Bless America and Sh*t on everyone else!"
Fresh remember: Allah is the King of Kings! Al Malik
Are you affirming GWB's belief that GWB can speak for Jesus?
YOu understand that Jesus is one of ISlam's prophet's right?
GWB can't even speak for himself the twit!
Yes, I'm fully aware that Isa bin Maryam (AS) is one of Allah's Prophets
BTW: GWB said that God speaks to him (like Moses) and he answers back..LOL..makes you wonder what is going on in that big head of his.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
jesus would say quit arguing over what he would say!!cas he is not god!! noone knows what jesus would say cas hes been dead for so long!!!!! now what did he say is another question!! but still he is not god!!!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Even when God makes evil obvious, dressed in it's red Satan suit, with scmitar, and death following on a pale horse, humanity STILL wants to deny what is right in it's face.
Would a real God prescribe for his disciples:
“Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you”? (Q.2:216).
Is really fighting good for people? But when this did not work he coerced them with the following:
“Unless ye go forth, He (Allah) will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place”? (Q.9:39).
These are the teachings of a demon who wants to create hate among us humans and destroy us. He is helpless and powerless but he can lie and he can deceive and he can use the fools to do his demonic work. God does not need henchmen. God has no need for killers and assassins. God succeeds through love and understanding. It is Satan that has to cast terror in the hearts of people in order to succeed.
How can God’s message not be logical enough to convince people and why his messenger should resort to violence to make his word prevail?
If God is he whom people believe he is, he is all powerful. He has the world in his hand. He can operate on his own and does not need helpers. If it was his wish to kill me, it would have been easy for him to do it without needing to hire assassins. It’s Satan that is helpless. It’s he who needs foolish and ignorant people to do his malicious work. On his own, Satan is helpless. But through those whom he seduces he can wreak havoc.
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: jesus would say quit arguing over what he would say!!cas he is not god!!
Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Jesus answered them, "why are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Is Jesus God? How he described himself:
They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." The Pharisees therefore said to Him, "You are bearing witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true." Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going." (John 8:12-14)
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)
Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Jesus said to her, "Your brother shall rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world." (John 11:21-27)
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: jesus would say quit arguing over what he would say!!cas he is not god!!
Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Jesus answered them, "why are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Is Jesus God? How he described himself:
They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." The Pharisees therefore said to Him, "You are bearing witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true." Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going." (John 8:12-14)
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)
Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Jesus said to her, "Your brother shall rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world." (John 11:21-27)
i guess he had an aweful lot to say!!!
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
A man walked into a gift shop that sold religious items. Near the cash register he saw a display of caps with WWJD printed on all of them. He was puzzled over what the letters could mean, so he asked the clerk.
The clerk replied that the letters stood for "What Would Jesus Do", and was meant to inspire people to not make rash decisions, but rather to imagine what Jesus would do in the same situation.
The man thought a moment and then replied, "Well, I don't think Jesus would pay $21.95 for one of these caps."
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He did say:- Matthew 5:43-46 ““YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; 45 that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. 46 For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing?”
Also:- Proverbs 25:21 “If the one hating you is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink.”
Inspired by God Paul said:- Romans 12:20 “But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; ..."
barryrob
Posts: 370 | From: England | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Jesus would probably say that the shedding of innocent blood is wrong and not to do it with regards to the killing of 750,000 innocent Iraqis. War is immoral because the six commandment says thou shalt not kill. Sometimes a war has to happen if, say, someone bombed Japan, then Japan should defend itself.
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Romans 12:17-21 “Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.” 20 But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.”
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) in the hereafter, but of course someone as intelligent as you HA HA should already know that.
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