posted
If I'm in a room with a couple of women and a gay guy do I have to wear the scarf? I mean...the guy's gay right?
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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Many have asked such a question! I know I used to, in order to justify my hair being styled by a gay man or hanging out with my gay guy friend ("hes gaaay, he doesnt count!!!")
But I believe the response you'll get from most sources is that the males sexual orientation does not change the fact that he is a male. Believing otherwise would be a type of condoning of the males homosexuality.
Atleast thats what I think Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and His messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise.
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posted
" And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display theri beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof, that they should draw theri veils over their bosoms adn not display their beauty except to their husbands, fathers, husbands' fathers, sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women or the slaves whom their right hand possess or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sence of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! Turn ye all together towards Allah(S.W.T) that ye may attain Bliss (Surah 24:31)
This puts it as male servants free of physical needs, but perhaps that is referring to homosexual men? I dont know the official standing.
posted
a gay man is a male free of physical needs with a woman, eunuch or not. Unless you think him seeing your hair will 'cure' him
The actual verses say to cover your bosom anyway, not your hair.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I would have to make a guess and say YES, since he was a born a man and is a man in the eyes of God, how he chooses to live his life doesn't change his gender (as much as he may insist he feels trapped)...keep it covered and you can't go wrong IMO. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by joueur ( Hocus Pocus): At-Taubah 71
And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and His messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise.
I don't understand what this has to do with wearing hijab in front of a gay man. I'm not condoning his gayness or cheering him on in the bedroom. I'm just hanging out with some old friends from high school.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: a gay man is a male free of physical needs with a woman, eunuch or not. Unless you think him seeing your hair will 'cure' him
The actual verses say to cover your bosom anyway, not your hair.
No. I'm sorry you've limited yourself to an inaccurate english translation. And you HAVE limited yourself, considering how capable you are living in a country where you could learn Fushah arabic, and meet with Arabic linguists.
But the verse says to draw your head covering over your bosom, that is- in addition to covering your hair, extend your veil to cover your chest. A khimar is a piece of clothe worn on the head. Get over it. And stop trying to convince Muslims who actually accept Islam in its entirety otherwise , for God's sakes.
And I don't know if a eunuch is always free from sexual desire, but I'm pretty sure thats what the verse refers to- SINCE eunuchs were often used as guards for women in many parts of the world as they were believed to be free from desire.
Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by joueur ( Hocus Pocus): At-Taubah 71
And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and His messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise.
I don't understand what this has to do with wearing hijab in front of a gay man. I'm not condoning his gayness or cheering him on in the bedroom. I'm just hanging out with some old friends from high school.
You know doodle, I could imagine someone saying that it'd be better to keep your hijab on, even if your friend is gay, because of the confusion it could cause- that is, that someone might leave your meeting thinking that hijab could be worn sometimes, or it didnt have to be worn in front of close male friends, if you know what I mean.
Kind of like, how its recommended that Muslims don't go to an environment like a club, or a bar, even if they aren't drinking, or even if they aren't partaking in the activities, because someone may see them, and make a connection which doesnt actually exist.
Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Actually, I think doodlebug asked an interesting question well worth discussing. So would it be possible to leave the debate whether Ayisha is misinterpreting things / whether hijab is an obligation or not to the already existing, quite comprehensive threads that already exist on the subject? Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I am curious as to the exact translation / interpretation of the expression "male servants without desire" (al tab3ena ghair oole).
I wonder ... back then, was it considered okay to appear in front of them uncovered because they were believed to have no libido, or because they were considered subordinates? Or maybe both?
Were eunuchs something common in Arabia at that time?
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by hibbah: that someone might leave your meeting thinking that hijab could be worn sometimes, or it didnt have to be worn in front of close male friends, if you know what I mean.
Kind of like, how its recommended that Muslims don't go to an environment like a club, or a bar, even if they aren't drinking, or even if they aren't partaking in the activities, because someone may see them, and make a connection which doesnt actually exist.
One thing I had to reconcile with myself before even putting hijab on was the fact that I am now representing Islam. That was a tough one since I'm certainly no angel. lol.
If someone who is not muslim leaves where I am at the time thinking that I can wear it or not wearing it depending on who the guy is well then that would be right. I don't wear it in front of my father or my brother, you know?
If someone leaves thinking it's ok to hang out with homosexuals well for sure. Who knows maybe they can see how normal I am and they'll want to convert because they see an example of a moderate muslim and not someone who is to the wicked extreme.
I dunno. As far as one particular guy is concerned I will wear it only because I'm not sure that he's not bisexual since he did date my girlfriend in high school for a few years and I know they were "active". lol
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by hibbah: that someone might leave your meeting thinking that hijab could be worn sometimes, or it didnt have to be worn in front of close male friends, if you know what I mean.
Kind of like, how its recommended that Muslims don't go to an environment like a club, or a bar, even if they aren't drinking, or even if they aren't partaking in the activities, because someone may see them, and make a connection which doesnt actually exist.
One thing I had to reconcile with myself before even putting hijab on was the fact that I am now representing Islam. That was a tough one since I'm certainly no angel. lol.
If someone who is not muslim leaves where I am at the time thinking that I can wear it or not wearing it depending on who the guy is well then that would be right. I don't wear it in front of my father or my brother, you know?
If someone leaves thinking it's ok to hang out with homosexuals well for sure. Who knows maybe they can see how normal I am and they'll want to convert because they see an example of a moderate muslim and not someone who is to the wicked extreme.
I dunno. As far as one particular guy is concerned I will wear it only because I'm not sure that he's not bisexual since he did date my girlfriend in high school for a few years and I know they were "active". lol
I see what you're saying. And yeah, I think its basically up to whatever the heck makes sense to you in this case.
Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: a gay man is a male free of physical needs with a woman, eunuch or not. Unless you think him seeing your hair will 'cure' him
The actual verses say to cover your bosom anyway, not your hair.
No. I'm sorry you've limited yourself to an inaccurate english translation. And you HAVE limited yourself, considering how capable you are living in a country where you could learn Fushah arabic, and meet with Arabic linguists.
But the verse says to draw your head covering over your bosom, that is- in addition to covering your hair, extend your veil to cover your chest. A khimar is a piece of clothe worn on the head. Get over it. And stop trying to convince Muslims who actually accept Islam in its entirety otherwise , for God's sakes.
That's the way I've always learned that translation is read. I agree, it's dangerous to insist on something when others may be listening, especially as it could be very wrong.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Yes the verse may be to draw your head covering over your bosom, the main thing it is telling you is to cover your bosom not cover your head. These head coverings were worn then and there by ALL women, jews, christians, even prostitutes, its a HOT place, but the bosom wasnt covered or covered enough. The bosom is a sexual thing for men, not hair. As I have posted on the other thread, there is a hadith about wiping over the leather socks, is that telling muslims they should wear leather socks or telling you that you can wipe over them?
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by hibbah: And I don't know if a eunuch is always free from sexual desire, but I'm pretty sure thats what the verse refers to- SINCE eunuchs were often used as guards for women in many parts of the world as they were believed to be free from desire.
Just came across this which I found interesting in the context of this discussion:
Interestingly though, and contrary to what one might expect, many castrati experienced an active sex-life. While their libidos were markedly low, most castrati were capable of erection and even ejaculation, though their ejaculate consisted solely of prostate fluid. The castrati were, without exception, infertile, and though it seems hard to imagine in the post-pill world of today, this condition led the more successful castrati to be much sought after by the noblewomen of Europe. For these women, accidental pregnancy was unthinkable. Child-sized penis be damned, the castrati were the 18th century equivalent of safe-sex.
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