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Sometimes we hear all theese horrifying stories about how muslim people treat each other. I just read an article about a 17 year old girl from Pakistan that was killed on her way to a trial about her divorce. Her name is Saira Nusrat Bibi - she was married to a 45 year old man when she was 9 years old. Now she was backed by human rights org. and trying to get divorce from the old man. Her parents could not accept that.
Last week in Pakistan 3 young girls was burried alive because the did not wanna be forced into marriages. 2 older women was trying to help them and then got burried too.
WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WILL DO THINGS LIKE THAT????
I have absolutely no compassion or understanding for people or actions like that no watter wether its religion or tradition. Why dont all good muslims stand up to things like that to show the world and the nutcases what islam really is. You hardly ever hear a muslim condem another muslims actions which i find extremely strange.
Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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But these people call themselves muslims. Its the good muslims duty to step and tell them or the world that their behavior is not in the spirit of islam.
Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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You know what really unnerves me. When that teacher named a teddy bear Muhammad, and the streets were full of muslims saying she should be killed! I've always wondered, what did the majority think of the incident? It was a teddy bear! I once called a sea monkey Moses, should I be punished for that? And, if the majority of Muslims thought the way that poor teacher was treated was disgusting, why didn't they say something, or do something about the fanatics that bring their name down?
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: You know what really unnerves me. When that teacher named a teddy bear Muhammad, and the streets were full of muslims saying she should be killed! I've always wondered, what did the majority think of the incident? It was a teddy bear! I once called a sea monkey Moses, should I be punished for that? And, if the majority of Muslims thought the way that poor teacher was treated was disgusting, why didn't they say something, or do something about the fanatics that bring their name down?
Exactly - good example. They get angry and stand up for the most riddicolous things while the major cruelty is met with sillience accept. That can really piss me of. I can not disscuss these issues with my hubby, who is a good muslim because politic and religion doesnt have his interest at all. His a good muslim man and he should stand up and speak out is condemtion against acts like that. Show the world or the commity we live in what a real muslim is like.
Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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What do you want us to do Tibe?, Seti said its not Islam, I second that and think its is nothing to do with Islam, its about their culture. Awful parents still call themselves parents dont they, even when they beat their kid, they may cal it 'discipline'. I wonder with a lot of these things WHO is the one saying it is islamic? Often its the media that puts the Islamic tag on these awful things.
Of course there are people that will say I am doing this and that in the name of Islam, and there have been peaceful protests against these things, but they dont get the media coverage.
I agree with you to an extent, enough muslims dont stand up and say its wrong, but look what happened to the two women that did stand up for those women you mentioned? Look what happened to Benazir Bhuto, a woman in Pakistan who believed in Democracy.
Pakistan, is no different to other countries in that it is overwhelmed with cultural tradition, that people (including themselves) may confuse with Islam. Remember that out of the 1.2 Billion muslims in the world, these acts represent only a small number, the majority are off leading normal lives. How many of the 1.2 Billion are scholars, or educated about Islam? Certainly not the majority. Then how many are able to stand up and represent Islam as a public face?
The difference is, we associate EVERYTHING in Muslim countries with Islam, it has become a bad habit (albeit fed by ignorant muslims to some degree), we dont hear people say 'Christian bingers on holiday romp' or 'christian man murders his wife'
Its eductaion, thats all it is, education about the world and education about Islam, that wont happen overnight, or even through muslims picketing. Wait until muslims fade into the background and then inshaAllah things may change with new generations. But probably only through all these awful things becoming more public, it will change, in time.
The teddy thing is just crazy, dont even get me started, that wasn't about a name, there was more to that than meets the eye.
Posts: 552 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Some people who say they are acting in the name of religion may misunderstand their religion or practice it wrongly. For this reason, it is a mistake to form any idea of that religion from the activities of these people. The best way to understand Islam is through its holy source.
The holy source of Islam is the Qur'an; and the model of morality in the Qur'an is completely different from the image of it formed in the minds of some westerners. The Qur'an is based on the concepts of morality, love, compassion, mercy, modesty, self-sacrifice, tolerance and peace, and a Muslim who truly lives according to these moral precepts is highly refined, thoughtful, tolerant, trustworthy and accommodating. To those around him he gives love, respect, peace of mind and a sense of the joy of life. God has commanded humanity to avoid evil; he has forbidden immorality, rebellion, cruelty, aggressiveness, murder and bloodshed. Those who do not obey this command of God are walking in the steps of Satan, as it says in the verse above, and have adopted an attitude that God has clearly declared unlawful. Of the many verses that bear on this subject, here are only two:
But as for those who break God's contract after it has been agreed and sever what God has commanded to be joined, and cause corruption in the earth, the curse will be upon them. They will have the Evil Abode. (Surat ar-Ra'd: 25)
Seek the abode of the hereafter with what God has given you, without forgetting your portion of the world. And do good as God has been good to you. And do not seek to cause mischief on earth. God does not love mischief makers.' (Surat al-Qasas: 77)
As we can see, God has forbidden every kind of mischievous acts in the religion of Islam including terrorism and violence, and condemned those who commit such deeds. A Muslim lends beauty to the world and improves it. But there is the bad apples until there is unity within the Islamic faith then there will be a split decision to his doing right and who is doing wrong and use their faith as there own manners .
-------------------- "Most men are accredited fools shortly after they leave the womb.” Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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According to the Qur'an, one of the greatest sins is to kill a human being who has committed no fault:
...If someone kills another person - unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth - it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind. Our Messengers came to them with Clear Signs but even after that many of them committed outrages in the earth. (Surat al-Ma'ida: 32)
Those who do not call on any other deity together with God and do not kill anyone God has made inviolate, except with the right to do so, and do not fornicate; anyone who does that will receive an evil punishment. (Surat al-Furqan: 68)
As we can see in the verses above, those who kill innocent human beings without a cause are threatened with evil punishment. God has revealed that killing one person is as great a sin as killing all mankind. Anyone who respected the prerogatives of God would not do harm to even one individual, let alone murdering thousands of innocent people. Those who think that they will escape justice and punishment in this world will never escape the account they must give in the Presence of God on the Last Day. So, those believers who know they will give an account to God after their death, will be very careful about respecting the limits God has established.
-------------------- "Most men are accredited fools shortly after they leave the womb.” Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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When you think of saints, you envision stained-glass pictures of piety. But the truth can be horribly different. Consider Pope Pius V:
When he was Grand Inquisitor, he sent Catholic troops to kill 2,000 Waldensian Protestants in Calabria in southern Italy.
After becoming pope, he sent Catholic troops to kill Huguenot Protestants in France. He ordered the commander to execute every prisoner taken.
Pius also launched the final crusade against the Muslims, sending a Christian naval armada to slaughter thousands in the Battle of Lepanto in 1571.
And he intensified the Roman Inquisition, torturing and burning Catholics whose beliefs varied from official dogma.
After his death, he was canonized a saint. He still is venerated by the church. It is as if Adolf Hitler were elevated to sainthood.
Or consider Saint Dominic, the king of torture. He founded the Dominican order, whose priests were judges of the Inquisition. They presided while screaming victims were twisted and ripped on fiendish pain machines until they confessed to thinking unorthodox thoughts. Then the Dominicans led the broken "heretics" in grand processions to the stake.
The priests also tortured thousands of women into confessing they were witches who had sex with Satan, changed themselves into animals, flew through the sky, caused storms, and the like. The "witches" also were burned for their confessions.
Or consider Saint Cyril, whose monks and followers beat to death the great woman scientist, Hypatia, director of the Alexandria Library, for her scientific approach to nature.
Or Saint Pedro Arbries, a Spanish inquisitor who tortured and burned former Jews for harboring their old beliefs. An ex-Jew assassinated him, and he was canonized as a martyr.
I was a newspaper church columnist for many years. Endlessly, I heard ministers proclaim that religion instills love and compassion in believers. It's a universal message. Meanwhile, back at the paper, our headlines said:
"Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs Massacre Each Other in India" "Protestant Gunmen Kill Catholics in Belfast, and Vice Versa" "Shi'ites in Iran Hang Baha'i Teens Who Won't Convert" "Christian Snipers Pin Down Muslim Machine-Gunners in Beirut" "Hands and Feet Chopped Off Under Islamic Law in Sudan"
Politicians always call religion a mighty force for good. President Reagan labeled it "the bedrock of moral order." They say it builds brotherhood.
But Christians killed 3 million Jews during Europe's centuries of religious persecution, before Hitler secularized the process.
And the Reformation wars pitted Catholics and Protestants in a ghastly century of slaughter.
And the Third World today still sufferes bloodbaths caused by religious tribalism.
There's a tinge of the Twilight Zone in the constant declarations that religion creates love, when opposite results are everywhere.
Did religion make Saint Pius V loving as he killed Waldensians, Huguenots, Muslims and nonconforming Catholics?
Did it make the Ayatollah Khomeini compassionate as he ordered the hanging of Baha'is and demanded the assassination of a "blaspheming" British writer? Did it make the Aztecs affectionate as they sacrificed and skinned maidens to appease a feathered serpent god?
Did it make brotherhood in Lebanon, where religious tribes wreak endless warfare?
Religion always is hailed as the cure for the world's evils. But, too often, it's the problem, not the solution.
I would go further and say its not any of the religions that are the problem, but the people using them to achieve power, whether thats power for men over women or power for one country over another, religion is just an excuse and a powerful weapon that can attract many supporters if successfully brainwashed.
Posts: 552 | Registered: Mar 2008
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I see and i observe and i learn from them and them only .
-------------------- "Most men are accredited fools shortly after they leave the womb.” Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:The teddy thing is just crazy, dont even get me started, that wasn't about a name, there was more to that than meets the eye.
Such as? All I know is a non-muslin teacher called a teddy Muhammad, the most popular name in the world anyway. And then seeing footage of not just a few fanatics, but streets full of people calling for her death. She shouldn’t have even been arrested.
quote:...If someone kills another person - unless it is in RETALIATION for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth - it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind. Our Messengers came to them with Clear Signs but even after that many of them committed outrages in the earth. (Surat al-Ma'ida: 32)
Retaliation? That really doesn't sound like a godly message. Revenge is never the answer, even if someone killed my mum, I wouldn't be after their blood, because that means I am no better than they are. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Look how much Ghandi accomplished without violence. I can see how terrorists can use passages like above to justify what they do. I'm not saying that that is what the passage was trying to say, just that it can be interpreted in many ways.
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quote:The teddy thing is just crazy, dont even get me started, that wasn't about a name, there was more to that than meets the eye.
Such as? All I know is a non-muslin teacher called a teddy Muhammad, the most popular name in the world anyway. And then seeing footage of not just a few fanatics, but streets full of people calling for her death. She shouldn’t have even been arrested.
quote:...If someone kills another person - unless it is in RETALIATION for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth - it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind. Our Messengers came to them with Clear Signs but even after that many of them committed outrages in the earth. (Surat al-Ma'ida: 32)
Retaliation? That really doesn't sound like a godly message. Revenge is never the answer, even if someone killed my mum, I wouldn't be after their blood, because that means I am no better than they are. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Look how much Ghandi accomplished without violence. I can see how terrorists can use passages like above to justify what they do. I'm not saying that that is what the passage was trying to say, just that it can be interpreted in many ways.
You see thats where learning Arabic would be better when its translated into English it becomes destorted and out of bounds and goes wrong and must say and read the Quran please you will find people that say they are of the book and do this callous acts are not of ISLAM at all but the soldiers of the Anti Christ himself corrupting the inner beauty that ISLAM offers .You see as the terriosts mind you would make a good decoy for them .
Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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Good youtube video- I'm in my last year of a journalism degree, so I am well aware of the manipulations of the media. Also, I'm not saying Islam is violent (if that was the case, I would not be with a muslim man). But, although the media does indeed focus on the bad- the footage of streets full of people after that teacher's blood were not fake. And just like the man in the youtube video, I wished more Muslim's would speak out against behaviour like that, and say the true meaning of Islam.
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It is really weird to relate those things with Islam, all are mostly cultural or regional and don't happen everyday. Why do I need to stand up to things like that to show the world and the nutcases what islam really is ? For me, they are just bunch of ignorant people.
The only problem is how the western media wants to show Islam to the world..
Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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It is a very complicated question. I don't understand any honour killings or suicide bombings done in the name of Islam. For years we had atrocities carried out in the shape of bombings and shootings in the name of religion in Northern Ireland spreading to UK. It was actually a muslim child that named the teddy, not the teacher! Personally I have no time for anybody that uses religion as an excuse for their dreadful actions.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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Some people you win and some people you lose ,thats part of the human brain blah blah blah
-------------------- "Most men are accredited fools shortly after they leave the womb.” Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: Good youtube video- I'm in my last year of a journalism degree, so I am well aware of the manipulations of the media. Also, I'm not saying Islam is violent (if that was the case, I would not be with a muslim man). But, although the media does indeed focus on the bad- the footage of streets full of people after that teacher's blood were not fake. And just like the man in the youtube video, I wished more Muslim's would speak out against behaviour like that, and say the true meaning of Islam.
That is exactly what i mean.
Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Sometimes we hear all theese horrifying stories about how muslim people treat each other.
We also hear horrifying stories about how people treat each other in general. Why do you need to highlight Muslims?
MURDER. Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends. That's approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War. Source
Official figures show that 9,000 women were killed by their husbands and relatives in Russia in 2003, out of a population of 143 million. Rights groups, however, say this figure could be much higher.Source
In Spain, some 100 women are killed each year by abusive spouses or boyfriends and there are over 30,000 complaints of physical violence. In France, six women die each month at the hands of men who profess to love them. In Switzerland, one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, where "direct democracy" rules supreme, the number of women who suffer physical and psychological abuse tops 20 per cent, while in Britain, where attacks on partners account for a quarter of all violent crime, one woman is killed by a partner every three days and one in every four women experiences domestic violence. Source
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WILL DO THINGS LIKE THAT????
Sick human beings.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Why dont all good muslims stand up to things like that to show the world and the nutcases what islam really is. You hardly ever hear a muslim condem another muslims actions which i find extremely strange.
Why don't all good and compassionate people stand up against things like this? Again, what does it have to do with Islam? There is no divine religious text in Islam which states they should do this, so why do Muslims in particular have to do something about it?
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: I can not disscuss these issues with my hubby, who is a good muslim because politic and religion doesnt have his interest at all. His a good muslim man and he should stand up and speak out is condemtion against acts like that.
How can a good Muslim have no interest in religion? If he was a good Muslim he would discuss these issues with you, then you wouldn't show him up by coming to a forum and asking questions like these. It's his duty as a Muslim husband to educate his wife about his religion especially if he decides to marry a non muslim woman.
Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Sometimes we hear all theese horrifying stories about how muslim people treat each other.
We also hear horrifying stories about how people treat each other in general. Why do you need to highlight Muslims?
MURDER. Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends. That's approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War. Source
Official figures show that 9,000 women were killed by their husbands and relatives in Russia in 2003, out of a population of 143 million. Rights groups, however, say this figure could be much higher.Source
In Spain, some 100 women are killed each year by abusive spouses or boyfriends and there are over 30,000 complaints of physical violence. In France, six women die each month at the hands of men who profess to love them. In Switzerland, one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, where "direct democracy" rules supreme, the number of women who suffer physical and psychological abuse tops 20 per cent, while in Britain, where attacks on partners account for a quarter of all violent crime, one woman is killed by a partner every three days and one in every four women experiences domestic violence. Source
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WILL DO THINGS LIKE THAT????
Sick human beings.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Why dont all good muslims stand up to things like that to show the world and the nutcases what islam really is. You hardly ever hear a muslim condem another muslims actions which i find extremely strange.
Why don't all good and compassionate people stand up against things like this? Again, what does it have to do with Islam? There is no divine religious text in Islam which states they should do this, so why do Muslims in particular have to do something about it?
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: I can not disscuss these issues with my hubby, who is a good muslim because politic and religion doesnt have his interest at all. His a good muslim man and he should stand up and speak out is condemtion against acts like that.
How can a good Muslim have no interest in religion? If he was a good Muslim he would discuss these issues with you, then you wouldn't show him up by coming to a forum and asking questions like these. It's his duty as a Muslim husband to educate his wife about his religion especially if he decides to marry a non muslim woman.
All these criminal acts you mention are being condemmed and mentioned in the news papers, we have women shelters where women gets help to start all over again. Society freeze out any man that will do a thing like that. In muslim countries they dont do that - they accept in silence and even try to explain it. Often with a text from the quran as an arguement.
All over the west there was LAAARRRGE demonstrations against the Vietnam War and the governments. When will we see a LLLAAARRRGEE muslim demonstrations in muslim countries against Al Quida??????
YES my husband is a good muslim. He believes in Allah very strongly. His good and kind to everyone, his a good father, husband and provider, he dont eat pigmeat, he drinks only very little alcohol, he prays when he feels a need for it, he dont believe or practice sex outside marriage. He lives in year 2008 and dont live like year 620 and burries his head constantly in an old book and is a dumb blind follower. His a modern muslim.
Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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They prefer demonstrations for a death penalty for a teddybear called muhammed. Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Sometimes we hear all theese horrifying stories about how muslim people treat each other.
We also hear horrifying stories about how people treat each other in general. Why do you need to highlight Muslims?
MURDER. Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends. That's approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War. Source
Official figures show that 9,000 women were killed by their husbands and relatives in Russia in 2003, out of a population of 143 million. Rights groups, however, say this figure could be much higher.Source
In Spain, some 100 women are killed each year by abusive spouses or boyfriends and there are over 30,000 complaints of physical violence. In France, six women die each month at the hands of men who profess to love them. In Switzerland, one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, where "direct democracy" rules supreme, the number of women who suffer physical and psychological abuse tops 20 per cent, while in Britain, where attacks on partners account for a quarter of all violent crime, one woman is killed by a partner every three days and one in every four women experiences domestic violence. Source
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WILL DO THINGS LIKE THAT????
Sick human beings.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Why dont all good muslims stand up to things like that to show the world and the nutcases what islam really is. You hardly ever hear a muslim condem another muslims actions which i find extremely strange.
Why don't all good and compassionate people stand up against things like this? Again, what does it have to do with Islam? There is no divine religious text in Islam which states they should do this, so why do Muslims in particular have to do something about it?
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: I can not disscuss these issues with my hubby, who is a good muslim because politic and religion doesnt have his interest at all. His a good muslim man and he should stand up and speak out is condemtion against acts like that.
How can a good Muslim have no interest in religion? If he was a good Muslim he would discuss these issues with you, then you wouldn't show him up by coming to a forum and asking questions like these. It's his duty as a Muslim husband to educate his wife about his religion especially if he decides to marry a non muslim woman.
All these criminal acts you mention are being condemmed and mentioned in the news papers, we have women shelters where women gets help to start all over again. Society freeze out any man that will do a thing like that. In muslim countries they dont do that - they accept in silence and even try to explain it. Often with a text from the quran as an arguement.
All over the west there was LAAARRRGE demonstrations against the Vietnam War and the governments. When will we see a LLLAAARRRGEE muslim demonstrations in muslim countries against Al Quida??????
YES my husband is a good muslim. He believes in Allah very strongly. His good and kind to everyone, his a good father, husband and provider, he dont eat pigmeat, he drinks only very little alcohol, he prays when he feels a need for it, he dont believe or practice sex outside marriage. He lives in year 2008 and dont live like year 620 and burries his head constantly in an old book and is a dumb blind follower. His a modern muslim.
Your post made me crack up with laughter. Thank you! You're a gem!
The first part was just plain ignorant and there's no helping that. You're not looking for the Muslims who condemn such acts because if you were you would find them. I do. They're all over the internet to start with.
I'm from Europe so I know that wife beaters are not "frozen" from society. The world over has a long way to go with regards to domestic violence not least from a psychological point of view - getting abused women to stand up against this. It's not Islam.
People in majority Muslim countries are barely allowed to stand up and demonstrate for their basic rights. Why do you think they're going to make Al Qaeda a priority on their agenda? It's not Islam.
If that's your idea of a Muslim I guess I'll leave you with your disillusionment. Before you can understand Muslims and Islam you might want to start with "The 5 pillars" and "Articles of Faith" Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Sometimes we hear all theese horrifying stories about how muslim people treat each other.
We also hear horrifying stories about how people treat each other in general. Why do you need to highlight Muslims?
MURDER. Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends. That's approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War. Source
Official figures show that 9,000 women were killed by their husbands and relatives in Russia in 2003, out of a population of 143 million. Rights groups, however, say this figure could be much higher.Source
In Spain, some 100 women are killed each year by abusive spouses or boyfriends and there are over 30,000 complaints of physical violence. In France, six women die each month at the hands of men who profess to love them. In Switzerland, one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, where "direct democracy" rules supreme, the number of women who suffer physical and psychological abuse tops 20 per cent, while in Britain, where attacks on partners account for a quarter of all violent crime, one woman is killed by a partner every three days and one in every four women experiences domestic violence. Source
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WILL DO THINGS LIKE THAT????
Sick human beings.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Why dont all good muslims stand up to things like that to show the world and the nutcases what islam really is. You hardly ever hear a muslim condem another muslims actions which i find extremely strange.
Why don't all good and compassionate people stand up against things like this? Again, what does it have to do with Islam? There is no divine religious text in Islam which states they should do this, so why do Muslims in particular have to do something about it?
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: I can not disscuss these issues with my hubby, who is a good muslim because politic and religion doesnt have his interest at all. His a good muslim man and he should stand up and speak out is condemtion against acts like that.
How can a good Muslim have no interest in religion? If he was a good Muslim he would discuss these issues with you, then you wouldn't show him up by coming to a forum and asking questions like these. It's his duty as a Muslim husband to educate his wife about his religion especially if he decides to marry a non muslim woman.
All these criminal acts you mention are being condemmed and mentioned in the news papers, we have women shelters where women gets help to start all over again. Society freeze out any man that will do a thing like that. In muslim countries they dont do that - they accept in silence and even try to explain it. Often with a text from the quran as an arguement.
All over the west there was LAAARRRGE demonstrations against the Vietnam War and the governments. When will we see a LLLAAARRRGEE muslim demonstrations in muslim countries against Al Quida??????
YES my husband is a good muslim. He believes in Allah very strongly. His good and kind to everyone, his a good father, husband and provider, he dont eat pigmeat, he drinks only very little alcohol, he prays when he feels a need for it, he dont believe or practice sex outside marriage. He lives in year 2008 and dont live like year 620 and burries his head constantly in an old book and is a dumb blind follower. His a modern muslim.
Your post made me crack up with laughter. Thank you! You're a gem!
The first part was just plain ignorant and there's no helping that. You're not looking for the Muslims who condemn such acts because if you were you would find them. I do. They're all over the internet to start with.
I'm from Europe so I know that wife beaters are not "frozen" from society. The world over has a long way to go with regards to domestic violence not least from a psychological point of view - getting abused women to stand up against this. It's not Islam.
People in majority Muslim countries are barely allowed to stand up and demonstrate for their basic rights. Why do you think they're going to make Al Qaeda a priority on their agenda? It's not Islam.
If that's your idea of a Muslim I guess I'll leave you with your disillusionment. Before you can understand Muslims and Islam you might want to start with "The 5 pillars" and "Articles of Faith"
Yes there are a few very small womenrights organisations who sadly no one really takes much serious or back up politically or finacially.
I have no idea where you live but no one here thinks its ok to beat up your wife or kids and no one here would sit down a repeat some lines from the bibles to justify that the neighboor is beating up his wife or forces his daugther to marry old men.
If i was a muslim born in a muslim country i was very angry at people like Bin laden for shaming my name and religion. I would participate in large demonstrations against him killing in the name of my god. And trust me there would be large demonstrations!!!!!!
Selfcritism doesnt excists in a muslim world, - or in your mentality - i see that in my husband and his muslim friends. He think his perfect or is too proud to ever admit his not perfect. Maleculture!
I do see all the mistakes we in the west makes too and i also speak out against that. But to blame me for the Vietnam War (happend more than 30 years ago) where europe really wasnt participating in is OUT of proportions. But did you ever notice the Large Lagre demonstrations against that war and did you ever hear some of the very popular anti war song - John Lennon - Imagine . Briliant.
Could we ever witness anything like that from a muslim side - sadly my guess is NO WAY.
A minority of muslims in Denmark was actually cheering when WTC was attacked. They drove around in the street with loud yells and music, flags out the windows. Not even the danish muslims had the guts to condem their fellow muslims doing that. Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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Why you question your own faith and try to find gaps in it .Just follow what you want and feel the way you want and leave the hell alone because what you see and describe is not muslims but enemies of the Islamic faith .Get on with your life and worry for what is infront of you not whats on the side it will not go away and you cannot change it its there and done for a purpose until Allah rectifies all and rids the evil wickedness .
-------------------- "Most men are accredited fools shortly after they leave the womb.” Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Yes there are a few very small womenrights organisations who sadly no one really takes much serious or back up politically or finacially
This is not the fault of Islam.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: I have no idea where you live but no one here thinks its ok to beat up your wife or kids and no one here would sit down a repeat some lines from the bibles to justify that the neighboor is beating up his wife or forces his daugther to marry old men.
I didn't say people think it's ok, but you were exaggerating when you said that wife beaters are frozen from society. They're not. They live, work and have fun alongside everyone else with no problems. Many people would never even know that these men are battering their partners. It's not exactly something you discuss over tea and biscuits.
It's not all as open as you're making it out to be and by claiming it is you are being unjust to the women who are abused. Many don't even admit there is a problem until it's too late.
This is not the fault of Islam.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: If i was a muslim born in a muslim country i was very angry at people like Bin laden for shaming my name and religion. I would participate in large demonstrations against him killing in the name of my god. And trust me there would be large demonstrations!!!!!!
If you were a Muslim born in a Muslim country you might not even have the right to vote so from where will you get the right to demonstrate?
This is not the fault of Islam.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Selfcritism doesnt excists in a muslim world, - or in your mentality - i see that in my husband and his muslim friends. He think his perfect or is too proud to ever admit his not perfect. Maleculture!
You're mixing me with the Arab mentality and I'm insulted. I also reject your comparison of me to your husband and his friends. Different league, beliefs, culture .. and erm.. gender.
If you really knew anything about Muslims you would know that we are far from all being the same since we all come from a wide range of backgrounds and cultures.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: I do see all the mistakes we in the west makes too and i also speak out against that. But to blame me for the Vietnam War (happend more than 30 years ago) where europe really wasnt participating in is OUT of proportions. But did you ever notice the Large Lagre demonstrations against that war and did you ever hear some of the very popular anti war song - John Lennon - Imagine . Briliant.
Could we ever witness anything like that from a muslim side - sadly my guess is NO WAY.
A minority of muslims in Denmark was actually cheering when WTC was attacked. They drove around in the street with loud yells and music, flags out the windows. Not even the danish muslims had the guts to condem their fellow muslims doing that.
Ok, you lost me at Vietnam and by time I got to John Lennon I was really confused
So, to conclude my participation on this thread: you obviously have no idea of the distinction between Islam and Muslims. You can condemn Muslim people all you like, it doesn't bother me because I'm probably more aware of the current Muslim deviation from Islam than you are. I also probably care more than you do since it's my religion and beliefs which get dragged into these tiring "episodes".
I'm not defending teddy bear lovers, men who hide in caves or cowards who beat women since it's not my fight, but I will counter attacks on Islam if I can.
Islam is free of faults (in my opinion). Muslim's are human and therefore fallible.
You asked in your orginal post if this was Islam. It's not Islam. Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Yes there are a few very small womenrights organisations who sadly no one really takes much serious or back up politically or finacially
This is not the fault of Islam.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: I have no idea where you live but no one here thinks its ok to beat up your wife or kids and no one here would sit down a repeat some lines from the bibles to justify that the neighboor is beating up his wife or forces his daugther to marry old men.
I didn't say people think it's ok, but you were exaggerating when you said that wife beaters are frozen from society. They're not. They live, work and have fun alongside everyone else with no problems. Many people would never even know that these men are battering their partners. It's not exactly something you discuss over tea and biscuits.
It's not all as open as you're making it out to be and by claiming it is you are being unjust to the women who are abused. Many don't even admit there is a problem until it's too late.
This is not the fault of Islam.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: If i was a muslim born in a muslim country i was very angry at people like Bin laden for shaming my name and religion. I would participate in large demonstrations against him killing in the name of my god. And trust me there would be large demonstrations!!!!!!
If you were a Muslim born in a Muslim country you might not even have the right to vote so from where will you get the right to demonstrate?
This is not the fault of Islam.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: Selfcritism doesnt excists in a muslim world, - or in your mentality - i see that in my husband and his muslim friends. He think his perfect or is too proud to ever admit his not perfect. Maleculture!
You're mixing me with the Arab mentality and I'm insulted. I also reject your comparison of me to your husband and his friends. Different league, beliefs, culture .. and erm.. gender.
If you really knew anything about Muslims you would know that we are far from all being the same since we all come from a wide range of backgrounds and cultures.
quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: I do see all the mistakes we in the west makes too and i also speak out against that. But to blame me for the Vietnam War (happend more than 30 years ago) where europe really wasnt participating in is OUT of proportions. But did you ever notice the Large Lagre demonstrations against that war and did you ever hear some of the very popular anti war song - John Lennon - Imagine . Briliant.
Could we ever witness anything like that from a muslim side - sadly my guess is NO WAY.
A minority of muslims in Denmark was actually cheering when WTC was attacked. They drove around in the street with loud yells and music, flags out the windows. Not even the danish muslims had the guts to condem their fellow muslims doing that.
Ok, you lost me at Vietnam and by time I got to John Lennon I was really confused
So, to conclude my participation on this thread: you obviously have no idea of the distinction between Islam and Muslims. You can condemn Muslim people all you like, it doesn't bother me because I'm probably more aware of the current Muslim deviation from Islam than you are. I also probably care more than you do since it's my religion and beliefs which get dragged into these tiring "episodes".
I'm not defending teddy bear lovers, men who hide in caves or cowards who beat women since it's not my fight, but I will counter attacks on Islam if I can.
Islam is free of faults (in my opinion). Muslim's are human and therefore fallible.
You asked in your orginal post if this was Islam. It's not Islam.
I was not only talking to you so i understand why you found it a bit confussing. Sorry.
Out of Islam comes the muslims.
My husband say that here in Denmark there is much more Islam than there will ever be in any muslim countries.
Fact is IMO that islam and the name of muslims are misused by fukked up people everyday wether its by terrorists that kills in the name of Allah or tribal nutcases kills their daugthers based on what they think is islam and i do not understand why the large majority of muslims (which are good and normal people) dont act which condemtions, demonstrations or anything. And why they get arroused and active over a teddy bear.......
Im only trying to call on the muslim world to stand up for them self and do a little "selfcleaning in their own nest".
Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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The need for Muslim societies to address their internal social and political development has become more urgent than ever. Economic development alone is clearly insufficient: it creates its own tensions in the social and political spheres, which must be addressed. A proper orientation must be developed for Muslim engagement with the world at large. Participation in the global processes must not be the monopoly of the government. For more than 100 years, the Muslim world has had to grapple with the problem of modernity. Of greatest urgency is the effort to inculcate an intellectual and political orientation that promotes democracy and openness. Intellectuals and politicians must have the courage to condemn fanaticism in all its forms. But they must, in the same breath, equally condemn the tyrants and oppressive regimes that dash every hope of peaceful change. CAN YOU NOW CALL ON THE MUSLIM WORLD .
-------------------- "Most men are accredited fools shortly after they leave the womb.” Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Sharona: The need for Muslim societies to address their internal social and political development has become more urgent than ever. Economic development alone is clearly insufficient: it creates its own tensions in the social and political spheres, which must be addressed. A proper orientation must be developed for Muslim engagement with the world at large. Participation in the global processes must not be the monopoly of the government. For more than 100 years, the Muslim world has had to grapple with the problem of modernity. Of greatest urgency is the effort to inculcate an intellectual and political orientation that promotes democracy and openness. Intellectuals and politicians must have the courage to condemn fanaticism in all its forms. But they must, in the same breath, equally condemn the tyrants and oppressive regimes that dash every hope of peaceful change. CAN YOU NOW CALL ON THE MUSLIM WORLD .
Now we just need the rest of the 1,49 billion muslims Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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-------------------- "Most men are accredited fools shortly after they leave the womb.” Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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How many religions are there in Egypt? is Islam is the main religion there. ...................................................... sukhjits Start A Child Day Care Center!Posts: 1 | From: newyork | Registered: Sep 2008
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YES my husband is a good muslim. He believes in Allah very strongly. His good and kind to everyone, his a good father, husband and provider, he dont eat pigmeat, he drinks only very little alcohol, he prays when he feels a need for it, he dont believe or practice sex outside marriage. He lives in year 2008 and dont live like year 620 and burries his head constantly in an old book and is a dumb blind follower. His a modern muslim.
This is what really annoys me, why is your husband a modern muslim? Because he choses to apply Islam in his own way to his life? neglecting prayers, drinking alcohol...?
Whats the difference then if these terrorists say they are practicing Islam in 'their' way - sure its not Islam, its their interpretation of it, same as your husband.
If people stop interpreting Islam in a way that suits themselves then maybe Islam would not be practiced in these bizarre ways.
There is nothing 'modern' about drinking alchohol, they did that BEFORE Islam, and they also prayed whenever they felt like it too.
Are terrorists 'modern muslims'? Because the prophet pbuh wasnt a terrorist, and neither were his companions.
I also do not consider myself a 'dumb, blind follower' just because i DONT drink alcohol or believe that praying when i feel the need is enough.
Here are examples of things going on where muslims are speaking out against terrorism in the UK, what a shame they dont make it to front page news.
If anyone kills a human being, unless it be (in punishment) for murder, or of spreading corruption in the land, it should be looked upon as though he had slain all mankind, and if anyone saves a life it should be regarded as though he had saved the lives of all mankind.(5:32)
Conference to Combat Terrorism Threats- Declaration Saturday 07 July 2007
The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) convened a meeting of over 200 Muslim Leaders
and organisations on Saturday 7th July 2007 at the Islamic Cultural Centre Park Road London to discuss combined responses to tackling terrorist threats. Muslim leaders representing all sections of the community attended this conference.
MCB condemnation with The Three Faiths Forum
The Three Faiths Forum, (Muslim-Christian-Jewish trialogue), jointly with the Muslim Council of Britain condemn without reservation all forms of terrorism whether carried out by misguided individuals, organisations or states.
Regarding the Car Bombings in London and Glasgow
Furthermore, Islam requires total respect for the sanctity of all human life irrespective of creed or race and at this time Muslims must clearly demonstrate their commitment to this within the rule of law.
Our members and our Association condemn without reservations the instigation, encouragement or use of violence in any form of protest or demonstration, and most especially of course to harm or take innocent lives.
Posts: 552 | Registered: Mar 2008
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it IS islam. some say this and some say that terrorists say islam made for kill others say islam is the peace islam makes this happen as its full of confusons
Posts: 3 | Registered: Sep 2008
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Right here at Beliefnet, there's a profile of ordinary muslim Americans who eloquently condemn terrorism in their own words. There's also this exhaustive list of condemnations by individuals and muslim organizations compiled by Al-Muhajabah, one of the earliest muslim female bloggers. A similarly thorough list of condemnations has been compiled by The American Muslim magazine, as has another by Islam for Today. Numerous muslim organizations have also sprung up, including the Free Muslim Coalition and Muslims Against Terrorism.
And yet, muslims are still taken to task for "silence"
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: Revenge is never the answer, even if someone killed my mum, I wouldn't be after their blood, because that means I am no better than they are. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Look how much Ghandi accomplished without violence.
I think it would be incorrect to credit the independance of India just on what Ghandi did through his peacful approach - I mean prior and around the same time as his movement you are forgetting the Hindu and Muslim and Sikh rebellions/insurgency to British rule. Also to add on top of that GB's significantly weakened position after WW2 - India became independant in 1947.
Also just some interesting observations that Malcolm X made with regards to independance:
"Look at the American Revolution in 1776. That revolution was for what? For land. Why did they want land? Independence. How was it carried out? Bloodshed. Number one, it was based on land, the basis of independence. And the only way they could get it was bloodshed. The French Revolution —— what was it based on? The land—less against the landlord. What was it for? Land. How did they get it? Bloodshed. Was no love lost; was no compromise; was no negotiation. I’m telling you, you don’t know what a revolution is. ’Cause when you find out what it is, you’ll get back in the alley; you’ll get out of the way. The Russian Revolution —— what was it based on? Land. The land—less against the landlord. How did they bring it about? Bloodshed. You haven’t got a revolution that doesn’t involve bloodshed. And you’re afraid to bleed. I said, you’re afraid to bleed."
"If violence is wrong in America, violence is wrong abroad. If it’s wrong to be violent defending black women and black children and black babies and black men, then it’s wrong for America to draft us and make us violent abroad in defense of her. And if it is right for America to draft us, and teach us how to be violent in defense of her, then it is right for you and me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country."
Posts: 121 | From: www.egyptianliving.com | Registered: Aug 2008
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YES my husband is a good muslim. He believes in Allah very strongly. His good and kind to everyone, his a good father, husband and provider, he dont eat pigmeat, he drinks only very little alcohol, he prays when he feels a need for it, he dont believe or practice sex outside marriage. He lives in year 2008 and dont live like year 620 and burries his head constantly in an old book and is a dumb blind follower. His a modern muslim.
This is what really annoys me, why is your husband a modern muslim? Because he choses to apply Islam in his own way to his life? neglecting prayers, drinking alcohol...?
Whats the difference then if these terrorists say they are practicing Islam in 'their' way - sure its not Islam, its their interpretation of it, same as your husband.
If people stop interpreting Islam in a way that suits themselves then maybe Islam would not be practiced in these bizarre ways.
There is nothing 'modern' about drinking alchohol, they did that BEFORE Islam, and they also prayed whenever they felt like it too.
Are terrorists 'modern muslims'? Because the prophet pbuh wasnt a terrorist, and neither were his companions.
I also do not consider myself a 'dumb, blind follower' just because i DONT drink alcohol or believe that praying when i feel the need is enough.
Exactly.
It seems to be a modern muslim - living in the 21st Century you have to imitate the way of life of the non-muslims and not be conservative, drink alcohol, go clubbing, pray when he feels a need for it - Remember God when the times are going rough - but when everythings going great - neglect God altogether.
Because a Muslim reads the Qu'ran - follows the basic 5 pillars of Islam- a woman wears hijab, etc it really doesn't mean they are living in the 7th Century. And it doesn't neccesarily mean you are a blind follower either - the Quran actually tells the reader in several verses to ponder, think, reflect that this book is for a people of understanding, for a people who give thought.
Posts: 121 | From: www.egyptianliving.com | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: All over the west there was LAAARRRGE demonstrations against the Vietnam War and the governments. When will we see a LLLAAARRRGEE muslim demonstrations in muslim countries against Al Quida??????
Now I don't know where you have been hiding for the past decade or so, but ever since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in 1924 - and the subsequent period of Western colonisation of much of the Islamic world (I think it is worth mentioning that at the time of the Western Powers colonising the Muslim World after the Ottomans collapse only 4 Muslim countries remained independant: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey and Afghanistan - this is out of about 60 or so. I think that says quite a lot don't you?) - there has been a heck of a lot of resentment and frustration from the Muslims - in particular the youth - and poverty, and their own governments failing them, and unemployment aside...
Look at the oppression they have been suffering from Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory, Indian occupation of Kashmir, the Bosnian holocaust and Kosovan ethnic cleansing, Moscows brutal 200 year old occupation of Chechnya, Chinese occupation of East Turkmenistan, Thailands ocupation of Pattani, etc, etc, -you get the picture.
Now with the American invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq - along with the images, and sever human rights abuses (Abu Ghraib and Guantanimo is just scratching the surface), tyrannical regimes, which the West backed - you must have seen the image of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam)
Now is it any surprise to you with all this happening - along with the sever psychological impact the Crusades left on the Middle East (people often say that the stories are retold as if it happend yesterday) - is it really any surprise to you that the likes of Al Quaida have emerged to address and rally young disaffected, humiliated Muslims against the oppression and injustice they witness all across the Muslim world? This is not to justify strapping bombs and killing non-combatants - of course this is unislamic. But when an invader occupies somones land, it is only natural that you defend your property and your people.
There is a much bigger issue that really is not being addressed - and that is in order to defeat Terrorism - one has to defeat the cause(s) of terrorism - dropping bombs on a mountain in Afghanistan is NOT going to work - invading Muslim lands and stripping them naked in prisons, torturing them, humiliating them further and the usual "collateral damage" is not going to defeat terrorism but feed it with more reasons to justify and propogate.
I know I quoted Malcolm X earlier on- but his quotes really are profound, this is something that may help you in thinking why you don't see laaaaaaaarge protests against al quaidah - when Muslims already are being oppressed and being bombed by people occupying many of their lands and taking away their human rights:
"You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom."
Posts: 121 | From: www.egyptianliving.com | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianLiving*Com: I think it would be incorrect to credit the independance of India just on what Ghandi did through his peacful approach - I mean prior and around the same time as his movement you are forgetting the Hindu and Muslim and Sikh rebellions/insurgency to British rule. Also to add on top of that GB's significantly weakened position after WW2 - India became independant in 1947.
Also just some interesting observations that Malcolm X made with regards to independance:
"[b]Look at the American Revolution in 1776. That revolution was for what? For land. Why did they want land? Independence. How was it carried out? Bloodshed. Number one, it was based on land, the basis of independence. And the only way they could get it was bloodshed. The French Revolution
Cripes I lost most of the Malcom X quotes, but did Malcom make theses statements before or after his Hajj to Mecca?
Posts: 313 | From: Between yuppies and chronics | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:I think it would be incorrect to credit the independance of India just on what Ghandi did through his peaceful approach - I mean prior and around the same time as his movement you are forgetting the Hindu and Muslim and Sikh rebellions/insurgency to British rule. Also to add on top of that GB's significantly weakened position after WW2 - India became independent in 1947.
I wasn't stating it was all down to him, I just said look how much he accomplished. Also his quote, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", is one I personally think more "divine" and worth following, than just: An eye for an eye.
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
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