Al-Azhar Grand Sheikh Mohamed Sayed Tantawi has issued a fatwa (religious opinion) allowing the organs transplant of the ten criminals who were sentenced to death after raping a woman in Kafr el-Sheikh governorate. Tantawi said the organs could be transplanted even before getting the defendants' approval. The fatwa sparked great controversy among scholars.
In exclusives to Al-Masry Al-Youm, Tantawi said: "Those criminals have unmercifully dealt with the raped woman without any sort of compassion. They committed their crime in spite of she kissed their legs and beseeched them not to do. Therefore, we legitimately have the right to get their organs after execution and transplant them to the needy patients."
Tantawi's statements have caused considerable controversy among scholars, who were divided into two groups of supporters and opponents. Abdel Rahman al-Adawi, member of the Islamic Research Academy, has voiced full support for the fatwa, adding that it is inconsistent with the provisions of the Sharia (Islamic law) because the person sentenced to death does not have any right in his body.
Ahmad Omar Hashim, Chairman of the People's Assembly (parliament) Religious Committee, has rejected Tantawi's fatwa because the Sharia says that and approval should be got from the person before transplanting his organs, warning that Egypt will turn into "another China" If we brought this fatwa into action.
China allows the transplant of organs of those who are sentenced to death without getting their approval in advance.
I think Tantawi is desperately waiting for new kidneys himself!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'm convinced Tantawi was previously transplanted with the brain of a donkey, and it was inserted upside down into the bargain! Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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I don't think people would prefer to get the heart of a rapist...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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what??? do they have an operating room right beside the execution room with a recipient opened and ready to receive a kidney?
Imagine you need a kidney and next door is a man being hanged!!!
These vital organs need to be perfused as soon as the blood supply is cut. I thought that an executed prisoner has to hang for a certain time to ensure he is DEAD!! doing this they would have to cut him down as soon as he drops to save the organs???
Oh God this is just so wrong on so many levels!
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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Well, all Egyptians say it is a hard living in Egypt. Guess they are right. If I needed a kidney and I would get one from a man who just has been hanged because he was a rapist, I should prefer to stay on dialysus.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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After you were raped by 10 criminals or your daughter was raped or your sister was raped, or your wife was raped, tell me whether do you agree with this fatwa.
Posts: 756 | From: ...be solution... | Registered: Jul 2007
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Yeah, what? I still don't want his organs...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I don't agree with it. Of course my 2 cents doesn't matter here.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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In Islam, body is not matter, the matter is the soul. So when his nasty soul left his body, the body has no meaning anymore. IMO, no need to be emotional, there are too many people waiting desperately for the organ transplant.
I am not against the fatwa.
Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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I agree with what you said Sha. I don't agree with the punishment.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by 'Shahrazat: In Islam, body is not matter, the matter is the soul. So when his nasty soul left his body, the body has no meaning anymore.
Why is there so much Islamic ritual then, attached to the dead body ?
The cleaning, who can touch it, the way it is wrapped, the direction it has to face, the visitors to the tomb, the direction of the grave, who is allowed to be buried in moslem graveyard, the martyr burial, the 40 day mourning period at the graveside?
Could this be yet another innovation brought about by the scholars Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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Yes it has some rules, as the Indians or Christians have. But I don't think it is too much when comparing with the cremation ceremonies of Hindus.
I think it may change according to the society. For example, we don't have a 40 day mourning period, we have 40th and 52th days duas. The graveyard visitings also differs from one person to another here. I know people who went to visit the graveyards almost everyday (like my uncle did for his wife, as he loved her so much), some people don't do as they think that; Islamicly, paying too much attention for the dead body is not good.
Our prophet wanted us to visit the graves from time to time, just for making our souls to remind the death.
Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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Like Gold i don't agree with the punishment.
I think it is very easy to say that i wouldn't take it now when we are not in the situation. However i do think we would change our minds if our loved one would die without a transplant and this heart is the only option. Why not something good out of something bad? Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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No, it's not easy to say, it's a matter of principle. I don't want anything from a rapist,not his house, not his money, not even his organs.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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So you would let your loved one die for the sake of your principle? To bring his money or his house into it is a totally different
I am not saying there is a wrong or right but what i am saying is that what we feel right now (outside of the situation) MAYNOT be what we would do if we were in that situation.
God knows, i don't know Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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I wasn't talking about my loved ones, you were the one that brought a third person in it. It is not mine to take decisions about somebody elses body... We all can have principles and we can act by our principles. But, excuse me, I don't think I have the right to make decision about, for instanc, my husbnds body, or my mothers... Don't have to either, because everybody has his/her own right in sovereignty.
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Yes i agree of course everyone has their own right but there are certain times where that is not possible. Maybe it's my child, maybe my husband is critically ill in hosptial, or even maybe my mother. As all of the above i am their Next of Kin, what i am saying is i do not know what i would do.
If we think about it, when people donate their organs to the doner list, hosptials do not ask if they have committed a crime and if so what crime. ALL they are concerned with is that the organ is healthly. Nothing else.
This story is more to do with the fact that the men are to withgo their right to choose. Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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I think it is to punish them more. Everybody has his/her own personal boundaries in this, and often it is something to think about. Suppose you are in the situation that your life can be saved by organ-transplantation. Should it make any difference to you where the organ comes from? There are people who should prefer a donor from the same gender, same age, or somebody more or less identical to them. There have been cases of poor people who were kidnapped and where organs have been taking away. Should you like to receive an organs that is taken by an act of crime? (And in this case it is also taken away without permission, is this also an act of crime?) There are experiments with organs from animals. Should you like to receive the heart of an animal? Does it make any difference what kind of animal? What about the religious objections?
There are so many factors in this. For me I am pretty sure I would refuse the organ of a rapist. For my husband, mother or adult children, they have the right to decide themselves. I shouldn't like my husband receiving the heart of a rapist, but at the same time it still is his own decision.
The only situation that I should have a voice in, should be by young children. I don't have them anymore, and I don't get them anymore...so thank god I don't have to take decisions in that...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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ah chop all the organs off while they're still alive, or set fire to certain organs while they're still alive, fecking animals!
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Cleric under fire over fatwa on death row convicts' organs
By Ramadan Al Sherbini, Correspondent Published: March 22, 2009, 23:15
Cairo: Muslim clerics and human rights advocates have reacted angrily to a fatwa (religious edict) passed by Egypt's top Muslim clergyman sanctioning the removal of organs from executed convicts to be transplanted in others.
"This fatwa is unacceptable because it tramples on the dead convict's dignity and robs him of a basic right," said Fadia Abu Shaba, a professor of law at the governmental National Centre for Criminal and Social Studies in Cairo.
"It builds on a dubious law, enacted in 2003 allowing the removal of the cornea from convicts on the death row after their execution. This expansion, which makes the body of the inmate a public property, is outrageous particularly if it is conducted without approval from the inmate or his family," she told Gulf News.
Mohammad Saeed Tantawi, the Grand Shaikh of Al Azhar, went public with his controversial fatwa at a conference in Cairo on organ transplants.
The Egyptian parliament is set to start soon debating a contentious bill on organ transplants.
Al Azhar is the Sunni Muslim world's most influential institution.
"This fatwa is sacrilegious as it mutilates the body of the executed convict, and this is not allowed in Islam," Mustafa Al Shakka, a noted Muslim scholar, told this newspaper.
"It also runs counter to logic because it implies a second punishment against inmates condemned to death."
Al Shakka is vehemently opposed to the removal of organs from a dead person to a living one.
"Man can donate his organs only when he is alive," he argued.
In recent years, human rights groups in Egypt have been pushing for scrapping the death penalty. Others have been calling for restricting it.
"Complying with Shaikh Tantawi's fatwa would generate problems," said Mahmoud Marzouq, a human rights activist.
"When the family of an executed inmate insists on not removing organs from his body, their wish must be respected. In the first place, the sanction of the convict to this process should be secured before his execution; otherwise the process would be illegal and a violation of human rights."
Unconventional: No stranger to disputes
- Since named as the Grand Shaikh of Al Azhar in March 1996, Tantawi has been frequently at the centre of controversy due to his fatwas.
They include such contentious fatwas as: - Allowing sex change operations under certain medical conditions; - Approving the Egyptian government's crackdown on small mosques controlled by Islamists and suspected militants; - Sanctioning interest rates on bank deposits deemed by other clerics as usury; - Supporting women's eligibility to be president; - In 1990 he blessed the use of foreign troops to evict Iraq from Kuwait; - Urging that journalists "who spread lies" be punished by 80 lashes. This particular fatwa understandably angered the Egyptian journalists because it was declared in late 2007 when Ebrahim Eisa, an outspoken critic of the Egyptian government was put on trial on charges of spreading false news about the health of President Hosni Mubarak. Last year Mubarak pardoned Eisa. - Shaikh Tantawi, who is appointed in his post by the head of the state, last year drew scathing criticism for shaking hands with Israeli President Shimon Peres during a conference in New York. Tantawi's critics allege his fatwas are mainly issued to the benefit of the regime, a claim he flatly denies.
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I don't think you can choose whose organ you receive. I guess it's the same in Egypt as in Europe that the donor is kept anonymous.
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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Personally I think that people should be stripped of their human rights when they violate someone elses.
For some reason we allow people to abuse, murder and violate others for a few years in prison. Personally I think the world would be a better place, and a safer place if we just got rid of them and used their organs for someone decent.
Of course its not ideal to have an organ from a rapist, but the recipient wouldnt know who it was from anyway. This could save lives. They gave up theirs IMO.
To many evil people rotting in prison and I dont think they have any right to live, OR to their organs.
Look at Josef Fritzl, why does he deserve to live after he took away innocent people's lives? Get rid of em.
Posts: 431 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2008
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I don't agree with a death penalty. I think it's wrong to take a life, even from a person who is considered as bad.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by *Caterpillar*: I agree with the fatwa.
Personally I think that people should be stripped of their human rights when they violate someone elses.
For some reason we allow people to abuse, murder and violate others for a few years in prison. Personally I think the world would be a better place, and a safer place if we just got rid of them and used their organs for someone decent.
Of course its not ideal to have an organ from a rapist, but the recipient wouldnt know who it was from anyway. This could save lives. They gave up theirs IMO.
To many evil people rotting in prison and I dont think they have any right to live, OR to their organs.
Look at Josef Fritzl, why does he deserve to live after he took away innocent people's lives? Get rid of em.
So you put yourself in Gods place to take their life? Then that makes you a killer too, so then who takes your life. As GANDHI says - "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
I agree with ?????
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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We paid taxes, ... for structure and infrastructure development, schooling, etc.. and also for criminals in the jails.
The victims of rape, the family of the victims paid taxes for criminals, to give them shelters and to give them food to eat...
Posts: 756 | From: ...be solution... | Registered: Jul 2007
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