Everyone in this life is a hero in their own world. Everyone tries to be a seeker for the Truth. Many people tried to save the world but very few of them could save themselves and leave a finger print. For me, I have experienced something in my life made me change all my thoughts, all my values, and all my life
Did I stop searching? No! The human dies while searching and strive for goodness. However if you have sincirity you would find it. It doesn't matter what religion you belong to. Everyone has one chance in their life and chooses the end of it.
Before Islam I was looking at the Muslims as they are a prey of their terrorist religion, I thought that Islam is dictatorial, racist and backward religion, so I was trying to avoid learning anything about it. All what I knew about the religion are the slanders that non-Muslims always attack Islam with. Read More
Islam Story Before I say my witness statement, I was driving my car towards my friends – who I called and I haven’t seen them for at least two months – I said to myself: “24 years living as a lost person! 24 years of my life serving a religion that is built on theories and myths that are not exist in the Bible” I was so scared of the reaction of my family when they know that I will become a Muslim! I was afraid of the reaction of the society! I was praying to God in the care: “Oh God! If this is the right path then make it easy for me, if not then make me die now in an accident before I reach to them!” all what I thought about is how to please God, I want paradise whatever happens to me! Finally I saw my friends while I am crying and said: “I bare witness that there is no God but Allah and I bare witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God” Read More
After Islam Life has thrown me to go and study Islam, I have finished my Bachelor degree in Islamic Studies. I still felt there is something missing. I went on media to call for Islam since I was totally convinced about it. I surely was trying my best to please Allah. Read More
Turning Point I moved to Jordan to seek the knowledge, left America the country of infedel (country of Kufr) and lived in the Islamic country. I have experienced the real Islam by meeting the highest positions who people look at them the leaders of Islam .. All that made me recalculate and rearrange my papers and searches. Started to study again until I found something higher than a religion, higher than Islam ... Read More
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for that link FS. It took some getting through, but well worth the effort.
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
what a sad story of a very confused impressionable young girl
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think that woman would have been much happier in life if she had just relaxed and let the right path come to her, instead of desperately searching for all the answer and acceptence.
However, reading this has given me the push to try and read the Quran again, I tried before but didn't get very far. So far, only on about page 35 and have a billion questions.
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: I think that woman would have been much happier in life if she had just relaxed and let the right path come to her, instead of desperately searching for all the answer and acceptence.
However, reading this has given me the push to try and read the Quran again, I tried before but didn't get very far. So far, only on about page 35 and have a billion questions.
WK, The one I read first and still read daily is Penguin Classics Koran by NJ Dawood. No Arabic and no commentary including hadith, small paperback novel sized, much easier to read.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've got Yusuf Ali Translation. I don't think it's the language, I got through king James so I should be able to get through this lol, but, and I don't mean to offend, there is so much I take issue with. After reading this article j wanted to fine out if the problems I have with some parts of Islam actually come from hadiths. When people talk about the religion they don't really separate between the two. I'm not reading with my debate hat on, which is how I usually read the bible, purposely looking for possible arguments. I read in hope I will like what is said, not because I want to convert, I cannot flick a switch ad believe in gods, but with a Muslim husband liking his religion would help lol. But I just keel finding issue. Ok, it is no where as bad as the old testament, that book had my mouth opened in shock throughout most of it (damn fun read though), but still...
-------------------- Another one.... Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: I think that woman would have been much happier in life if she had just relaxed and let the right path come to her, instead of desperately searching for all the answer and acceptence.
However, reading this has given me the push to try and read the Quran again, I tried before but didn't get very far. So far, only on about page 35 and have a billion questions.
Kitty, I am curious about what in this article makes you want to start reading the Quran?
Ayisha, Why do you see her as confused and impressionable? She appears to simply be searching for the truth and with new information her opinion changes.
Most reasonable people do evolve and grow as they learn new things. It's the stagnate people who never examine different ideas, and possibilities that never grow. As a result they change facts to suite their own ideas rather than changing their ideas with the new information. These are who we should have concerns about.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: I've got Yusuf Ali Translation. I don't think it's the language, I got through king James so I should be able to get through this lol, but, and I don't mean to offend, there is so much I take issue with. After reading this article j wanted to fine out if the problems I have with some parts of Islam actually come from hadiths. When people talk about the religion they don't really separate between the two. I'm not reading with my debate hat on, which is how I usually read the bible, purposely looking for possible arguments. I read in hope I will like what is said, not because I want to convert, I cannot flick a switch ad believe in gods, but with a Muslim husband liking his religion would help lol. But I just keel finding issue. Ok, it is no where as bad as the old testament, that book had my mouth opened in shock throughout most of it (damn fun read though), but still...
WK Yusef Ali is with Arabic and commentary which will give HIS interpretations based on hadith. i also have Yusef Ali and its large but I use it if I need to show hubby something in Arabic. the penguin Classics is much better IMO and in less 'biblical KJV' language. Well worth the £6.99 i think I paid Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
Ayisha, Why do you see her as confused and impressionable? She appears to simply be searching for the truth and with new information her opinion changes.
I agree she is searching for the truth but as you say with new information her opinions change, which happens to all of us, but she seems to tend to listen to others opinions instead of taking what they say and researching for herself. I admit I didnt read every bit of the article though so i may have misunderstood that.
If I just took everything I have been told by the majority of so-called muslims I would be prostrating to Muhammed at this moment Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
It was on my todo list anyway, but this article triggered it because of when the lady became a "quranist" or whatever it's called. She renounced hadith and wanted to follow Islam as the quran says it should be. This made me wonder if many of the negative things I believe are in the religion just come from the hadiths, instead of what the religion should be about. So anyway, I have been learning about Islam since meeting my husband from a bunch of different sources, but now I just want to look at the quran, forget everything else.
Ayisha, getting that translation on amazon, only costing 1p (then about £2 for p+p). I'll keep my other translation- it's an app on my phone- for whenever I want to show Sam something and it's easier for him to read the arabic.
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ruba embraced Islam when she was uneducated about Islam and when she became academically educated with a Bachelor Degree in Islamic Studies, she left Islam after she discovered the truth from inside of it. Ruba is not a normal woman, she was very active in preaching Islam and a popular icon as a daughter of priest to all Islamic leaders who were very excited about her convert, now they are in shock and became aware that as she was so clever in preaching Islam before, she would preach Christianity in the same way but this time with so deep education about Islam. The main problem of new Muslims who leave Christianity as they say, that they can't figure out the relation between Jesus and God, for this reason they prefer to embrace another religion than simply understand the nature of Jesus, what a funny solution, from seeking an answer of one question to put themselves in a Rat Maze.
John 10
25 Jesus replied, “I have already told you, and you don’t believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father’s name. 26 But you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else.No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
John 10. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me
Thanks for that FS. It just reinforces what I was thinking about "Christians" converting to Islam. If someone has become a Muslim, then they ever only "thought" that they were Christian in the first place, it's quite simple when you read the above verse.
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by weirdkitty: It was on my todo list anyway, but this article triggered it because of when the lady became a "quranist" or whatever it's called. She renounced hadith and wanted to follow Islam as the quran says it should be. This made me wonder if many of the negative things I believe are in the religion just come from the hadiths, instead of what the religion should be about. So anyway, I have been learning about Islam since meeting my husband from a bunch of different sources, but now I just want to look at the quran, forget everything else.
i can guarantee that all the bad are from hadith, just look at what God sent in Quran as he sent nothing else and the sunnah to follow according to quran is the sunnah of God. Quran says it is the best hadith and what other hadith will you believe after this.
sadly you will of course be hounded and told you are wrong by sunni muslims
it is also good to look at other things then you can compare and the right is clearly marked against the wrong. I listened to fanatics and fanatical haters and read for and against and found what i believe to be right.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: John 10. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me
Thanks for that FS. It just reinforces what I was thinking about "Christians" converting to Islam. If someone has become a Muslim, then they ever only "thought" that they were Christian in the first place, it's quite simple when you read the above verse.
Do you not realise how stupid that sounds?ok then, no real atheists convert, all atheists who become religious were never real atheists, they just thought they were. And all Muslims who convert to Christianity were never real Muslims. Prove me wrong...
Posts: 2573 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: John 10. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me
Thanks for that FS. It just reinforces what I was thinking about "Christians" converting to Islam. If someone has become a Muslim, then they ever only "thought" that they were Christian in the first place, it's quite simple when you read the above verse.
Do you not realise how stupid that sounds?ok then, no real atheists convert, all atheists who become religious were never real atheists, they just thought they were. And all Muslims who convert to Christianity were never real Muslims. Prove me wrong...
it sounds ridiculous to me because Jesus served the One God only which made him Muslim so when I converted to Islam i 'found' Jesus more than left him and I also found the One God.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sorry, but it doesn't sound stupid at all, to me. Certainly not a stupid as your response sounds, surely you realise that none of this "religious" rabbitting can be proven to anyone outside of the particular belief? It's not my fault that you cannot understand that Christianity is the ultimate religious experience, the quoted scripture just confirms it. For instance, how could I convince you that Kofta with mint sauce is the best taste ever, without you partaking of it? Don't be daft!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
so you never really ate Kofta without mint sauce in the first place?
Are you a sheep ourluxor? the verses posted talk of sheep not people. "No of course not" you will say, "thats a parable", so you see that bit as a parable but not the bit he says "i and my father are one" when jesus has very clearly said the father is more powerful than him and he does works in his fathers name, yet I and my father are one means Jesus is God. What is ridiculous is you cannot see that.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Arguing about texts which are perceived to be from "Holy Books" by one religion or another, is a complete waste of time. I've got work to do (my missus is glowering at me) so I'll come back to this later.
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ourluxor, The verse talk about people and sheep was symbol as Jesus started in John 10 with saying
2 The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep...the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
As you see Jesus meant that who will follow him will be saved same like sheeps follow their shepherd
In Matthew 25:32
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
In Matthew 10:16
16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
In Isaiah 53:6
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
In Luke 15:1-7 Jesus compared between sheep and human as a shephard who have 100 sheeps but when he loses one, he will go behind him until he find him, 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!' 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
30 I and the Father are one." 31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God ."
Jesus didn't correct that and said no I didn't mean it but he said in 36 Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
Also in John 20:28-29
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God .
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
So its very clear that Jesus said he was God's son and equal to God, he didn't rebuke anyone called him lord or son of God and thats why Jews wanted to kill him for blasphemy.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
OK. For argument's sake let's agree that any particular religion will bring us eventually to "The Last Day" or "The Day of Judgement", and that this is equally true of both Islam and Chrisianity.
From what I have gleaned so far about Islam, it would seem that Allah will then judge whether the Muslim has fulfilled his/her religious duties to His satisfaction. i.e. Carried out the five Pillars of Faith religiously etc., his/her life here on earth being just a time while he/she tries to please Allah enough to be admitted to Paradise. Not forgetting, of course, that He has also predestined some not to be admitted!
I'm sure you will correct me if the above shows my missunderstanding of the belief?
The Christian, on the other hand, already has Paradise in his/her grasp. For us, we are already living in eternity, not because we have managed to please a jealous God by living according to any particular set of rules, but because of His undeserved love for us, He has given us the infalable promise that whosoever believes in the Name of Jesus for eternal life, will be saved. While it's very nice to be able to study the Scriptues and endlessly discuss the finer points of allegory etc., doctrine and practice, many of us do not have the mental capacity to do so. God knows all this, but He has already changed our lives from the perishable to the imperishable.
So, that begs the question "Who, in their right mind, would exchange that 'blessed assurance' for a life on earth of continuous striving and uncertainty?" In my humble opinion, you'd have to have a screw loose to make such a decision, hence my assertion that someone who says that they have converted from Christianity to Islam can never have really partaken of Christianity in it's unrivalled simplicity and fullness. And I still don't think it sounds stupid.
As for Ayisha's assertion that I "never really ate Kofta without mint sauce": yes I did! Just as the mint sauce perfected the taste of the Kofta, so does Jesus perfect the relationship with God. Is that too complicated a parable?
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: OK. For argument's sake let's agree that any particular religion will bring us eventually to "The Last Day" or "The Day of Judgement", and that this is equally true of both Islam and Chrisianity.
From what I have gleaned so far about Islam, it would seem that Allah will then judge whether the Muslim has fulfilled his/her religious duties to His satisfaction. i.e. Carried out the five Pillars of Faith religiously etc., his/her life here on earth being just a time while he/she tries to please Allah enough to be admitted to Paradise. Not forgetting, of course, that He has also predestined some not to be admitted!
I'm sure you will correct me if the above shows my missunderstanding of the belief?
obviously not learnt from Quran and misunderstood, but I wont get into why as there is enough on this forum to browse to understand correctly.
quote:The Christian, on the other hand, already has Paradise in his/her grasp. For us, we are already living in eternity, not because we have managed to please a jealous God by living according to any particular set of rules, but because of His undeserved love for us, He has given us the infalable promise that whosoever believes in the Name of Jesus for eternal life, will be saved. While it's very nice to be able to study the Scriptues and endlessly discuss the finer points of allegory etc., doctrine and practice, many of us do not have the mental capacity to do so. God knows all this, but He has already changed our lives from the perishable to the imperishable.
So you think there are not only 2 but 3 gods? jesus, his father god and the Muslim god. interesting
quote:So, that begs the question "Who, in their right mind, would exchange that 'blessed assurance' for a life on earth of continuous striving and uncertainty?" In my humble opinion, you'd have to have a screw loose to make such a decision, hence my assertion that someone who says that they have converted from Christianity to Islam can never have really partaken of Christianity in it's unrivalled simplicity and fullness.
one that uses thier brain and thinks, obviously not for the majority of Christians as they dont need to and follow like sheep
quote:And I still don't think it sounds stupid.
of course you dont, you're a sheep!
quote:As for Ayisha's assertion that I "never really ate Kofta without mint sauce": yes I did! Just as the mint sauce perfected the taste of the Kofta, so does Jesus perfect the relationship with God. Is that too complicated a parable?
yes it is when you have just said one that changes from Christianity to Islam was never really a Christian in the first place, but sheep wont see that as sheep just follow the leader without a thought. In the same way as your kofta without mintsauce and then with it perfected the taste, a convert from Christianity to Islam has their 'taste' perfected, but then one that converts to islam from Christianity was never a real sheep in the first place and used thought. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: It seems that we have come to an impasse again! I just love it when you respond with nonsense like that above, Ayisha.
I'm just a bit confused: how one can use much thought when the Islamic requirement is always stated to be "Hear and Obey"?
BAAAAAAA! Or should that be Bah, Humbug? (I'm busy reading some Dickens at the moment.)
ROFL nonsense? This is from the sheep that thinks he can do as he pleases all his life and has a free pass into heaven just by believing Jesus was God who came and died for him?
posted
"This is from the sheep that thinks he can do as he pleases all his life and has a free pass into heaven just by believing Jesus was God who came and died for him?"
See.........you did understand all along!!! You old witch!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ayisha, We have repeatedly said that we sever one God. Why do you mock us?
If you don't comprehend how we believe this, it is fine but don't continue to say that we have three God's when we say over an over we have one. What if I said to you that you believe you have to serve Muhammad (pbuh) yet you tell me no I only serve Allah and I still say yes, you serve Muhammad (pbuh)? How would this make you feel?
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Ayisha, We have repeatedly said that we sever one God. Why do you mock us?
If you don't comprehend how we believe this, it is fine but don't continue to say that we have three God's when we say over an over we have one. What if I said to you that you believe you have to serve Muhammad (pbuh) yet you tell me no I only serve Allah and I still say yes, you serve Muhammad (pbuh)? How would this make you feel?
you pretty much mock yourselves, you don't need any help from me. read what ourluxor said:
"The Christian, on the other hand, already has Paradise in his/her grasp. For us, we are already living in eternity, not because we have managed to please a jealous God by living according to any particular set of rules, but because of His undeserved love for us, He has given us the infalable promise that whosoever believes in the Name of Jesus for eternal life, will be saved. While it's very nice to be able to study the Scriptues and endlessly discuss the finer points of allegory etc., doctrine and practice, many of us do not have the mental capacity to do so. God knows all this, but He has already changed our lives from the perishable to the imperishable."
so You have Jesus/God, who did nothing of himself and worshipped only GOD, and Father/God who is going to wave you all happily into heaven along with Jesus/God while Allah the 'jealous' God judges all the Muslims for their deeds, sends those that worshipped others beside Him in hell for a bit, while they look on longingly at all those chistians who got away with worshipping a man as God.
No matter how you look at it the concept of a God that makes Himself into flesh so he can be put to death and rise again to fulfil a prophesy He made Himslef in the first place, but He didnt die when He was killed anyway as he was brought to life again by Himslef, is ridiculous at best and blesphemous at worst.
Personally i dont care if you worship a salad bowl but dont moan to me about making a mockery of your belief when it seems fine and dandy to make a mockery of mine.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
No one mocked your beliefs. He was telling what he believes. There is a huge difference.
You know, you didn't have to respond to the article, but you did and your response was a mock. (poor little confused girl that left the true religion of Islam for...)
When you start your address like this then it doesn't foster good dialogue. Your too intelligent not to know this. So the only conclusion is that you do it intentionally to provoke a response.
You should reread the thread with a clear head to see who is the one insulting the others belief. I see that ourluxor insulted you after he got fed up but he was not mocking your belief.
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: No one mocked your beliefs. He was telling what he believes. There is a huge difference.
so when someone tells what they believe about my belief its 'just them teling what they believe' but when I tell you what I believve about your belief its mocking?
quote:You know, you didn't have to respond to the article, but you did and your response was a mock. (poor little confused girl that left the true religion of Islam for...)
are you quite sure thats what I said or is it what you believe I said? There was nothing mocking in what I said which was
quote:what a sad story of a very confused impressionable young girl
quote:When you start your address like this then it doesn't foster good dialogue. Your too intelligent not to know this. So the only conclusion is that you do it intentionally to provoke a response.
and you're too intelligent not to scroll back and check exactly what I have said before accusing me, yet you didnt because you already have it in your mind what you THINK I said.
quote:You should reread the thread with a clear head to see who is the one insulting the others belief. I see that ourluxor insulted you after he got fed up but he was not mocking your belief.
You should reread the thread with a clear head and you will find most of my posts in this thread were to WK until the post "if anyone converts to islam from Christianity they only 'thought' they were Christians in the first place" which is mocking my belief, it fell apart from there with little bo peep and her sheep.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
D_Oro, I hope Ayisha didn't take my "old witch" jibe as an insult. It certainly was not meant as such, more of a dig in the ribs, actually! And, I don't get "fed up", a bit exasperated at times but never tired of sensible debate, or a bit of good humoured banter.
I have an enormous amount of trouble in trying to understand why you think we worship 3 gods, Ayisha. Doesn't the Quran mention Allah's Holy Spirit? So, does that mean that you worship 2 gods? I wouldn't dream of supposing that. Allah has 99 names, but that doesn't mean that He is 99 gods, does it?
I cannot fathom why you have emboldened the bit about us having Paradise already in our grasp and also about not having to satisfy a jealous God. (Like the Jews as well as the Muslims) Could you enlighten us?
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I missed the intervening post from Ayisha. How was that mocking your belief? Have you been at the lilac wine or something?
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: freshsoda, Would you mind translating what she is saying?
Her interview were 6 parts, in this part she says, I put hijab today for a purpose which is sending a message to Muslims,because when I was in paltalk, I said in the room that I accepted Jesus and nobody believed from Muslims and they said she wasn't Ruba, up to now Muslims want me to clear up this rumor being reverted to Jesus and to say that I am still Muslima. For this reason I put hijab today to show Muslims that it's me, same person who was Muslima before for 5 years,was very devoted to Islam but now as Jesus freed me now, I can take off my hijab with honour, because Jesus is my head's crown. Thanks to God that he freed me from that prison where I was. The interviewer said to her that many muslima took off their hijab, so you are not the first one to do this but you are the first one who did it on TV. She said thank you, Thanks to God.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote: "From what I have gleaned so far about Islam, it would seem that Allah will then judge whether the Muslim has fulfilled his/her religious duties to His satisfaction. i.e. Carried out the five Pillars of Faith religiously etc., his/her life here on earth being just a time while he/she tries to please Allah enough to be admitted to Paradise. Not forgetting, of course, that He has also predestined some not to be admitted!"
He says "from what I gleaned" and "it would seem"... Meaning from what he understands. That is not mocking.
This is what you said:
quote: "So you think there are not only 2 but 3 gods? jesus, his father god and the Muslim god. interesting"
"one that uses thier brain and thinks, obviously not for the majority of Christians as they dont need to and follow like sheep"
"of course you dont, you're a sheep!"
"yes it is when you have just said one that changes from Christianity to Islam was never really a Christian in the first place, but sheep wont see that as sheep just follow the leader without a thought. In the same way as your kofta without mintsauce and then with it perfected the taste, a convert from Christianity to Islam has their 'taste' perfected, but then one that converts to islam from Christianity was never a real sheep in the first place and used thought."
"No matter how you look at it the concept of a God that makes Himself into flesh so he can be put to death and rise again to fulfil a prophesy He made Himslef in the first place, but He didnt die when He was killed anyway as he was brought to life again by Himslef, is ridiculous at best and blesphemous at worst."
Ayisha, I have a hypothese. Most Muslims believe that the Bible is corrupted and not from God. They consider Christianity a lesser religion. While most Christians believe that the Quran is not from God. Yet, we have friends and care for each other with no problems because we don't look at the religion but at the person.
You on the other had are in a difficult situation because you believe that the Bible is Gods word and the Quran is Gods word.
So to the Muslims you have the task of making them believe that the Bible is Gods word. Then when you hear scripture that doesn't support your belief it cause conflict with you and you get offended as if someone has attacked you when really they are just telling what the Bible says.
When the Bible says one thing and the Quran says another how can you believe both to be true?
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
Narrated 'Aisha: A man called Labid bin al-A'sam from the tribe of Bani Zaraiq worked magic on Allah's Apostle till Allah's Apostle started imagining that he had done a thing that he had not really done. Bukhari
May be this is answer to your question.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: This is what ourluxor said :
quote: "From what I have gleaned so far about Islam, it would seem that Allah will then judge whether the Muslim has fulfilled his/her religious duties to His satisfaction. i.e. Carried out the five Pillars of Faith religiously etc., his/her life here on earth being just a time while he/she tries to please Allah enough to be admitted to Paradise. Not forgetting, of course, that He has also predestined some not to be admitted!"
He says "from what I gleaned" and "it would seem"... Meaning from what he understands. That is not mocking.
This is what you said:
quote: "So you think there are not only 2 but 3 gods? jesus, his father god and the Muslim god. interesting"
"one that uses thier brain and thinks, obviously not for the majority of Christians as they dont need to and follow like sheep"
"of course you dont, you're a sheep!"
"yes it is when you have just said one that changes from Christianity to Islam was never really a Christian in the first place, but sheep wont see that as sheep just follow the leader without a thought. In the same way as your kofta without mintsauce and then with it perfected the taste, a convert from Christianity to Islam has their 'taste' perfected, but then one that converts to islam from Christianity was never a real sheep in the first place and used thought."
"No matter how you look at it the concept of a God that makes Himself into flesh so he can be put to death and rise again to fulfil a prophesy He made Himslef in the first place, but He didnt die when He was killed anyway as he was brought to life again by Himslef, is ridiculous at best and blesphemous at worst."
Ayisha, I have a hypothese. Most Muslims believe that the Bible is corrupted and not from God. They consider Christianity a lesser religion. While most Christians believe that the Quran is not from God. Yet, we have friends and care for each other with no problems because we don't look at the religion but at the person.
You on the other had are in a difficult situation because you believe that the Bible is Gods word and the Quran is Gods word.
So to the Muslims you have the task of making them believe that the Bible is Gods word. Then when you hear scripture that doesn't support your belief it cause conflict with you and you get offended as if someone has attacked you when really they are just telling what the Bible says.
When the Bible says one thing and the Quran says another how can you believe both to be true?
I notice you didn't scroll back quite so far D_oro to apologize for your accusations on what I said which I didnt and also didnt pick out all that was said from ourluxor but did from me.
however, i will still answer your questions. and correct some of your misunderstandings
I believe that Torah and Gospel are 'from' God, I believe Quran is the actual WORDS of God. We both know full well how changes happened in the church in 325ad although we may disagree what those changes were, I believe that many of the books thrown out were the ones which do NOT point to jesus being anything other than a human prophet so the church could give 'birth' to Christianity as we know it now with Jesus/god at the head and they gained control of the masses. Saying that I do believe there is much to learn from those books that are left of the Bible.
I dont have any task to make the muslims belive in the Bible, why should that be my task? I dont understand that, sorry.
When I hear verses which I can see a totally different meaning to than you do, then I have to say something, its nothing to do with those verses 'not supporting my belief or causing conflict' i have no conflict and I know what I believe. Its YOU that gets offended when I say what the Bible says if you look at it.
What have I said. i said you worship a man who you believe was God in the flesh that came to earth from heaven so he could be killed and rise from the dead to fulfil a prophecy he made himself. That man had said that he could do nothing himself and it was from GOD, yet you still think he was God in flesh. That man cried out to GOD when he was nailed to a cross, yet you still think he was God in the flesh.
now answer me what have I said that is not true? Nothing, you just don't like seeing it 'as it is' and would rather quote verses where NEVER Jesus said he was God but according to you NOT saying 'no' meant he was! Jesus spoke in parables, not as direct as one would hope to establish a correct understanding, an EXACT DEFINITE understanding and all that is from GOD as he did it in the Quran too, and elsewhere I am now reading Muhammed was the first astonaut and I should worship him!
so i have not 'mocked', all I have done is put the very same thing in real words of exactly what you are doing, which is worshipping a man, one who NEVER said worship me, who you think is God in the flesh who had to come and die to be raised again to fulfil a prophecy he himself had already made and beleif in all that gets you a free pass into heaven, no deeds, go rape and murder whoever you like as GOD himself has died for your sins past present and future. Really with a belief like that what did God make humans for if he makes prophecies that he will come and die and come to life to fulfil himself for? NONE of it is logical and none of it is what Jesus did or told you to do.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ayisha, I didn't say that is what you said. What I meant is that what you said seemed to imply that she became a Christian because she was confused. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
You later said that you didn't read the article and thought that she was listening to others rather than doing research herself. Had you actually read the article you would have known, as freshsoda pointed out, that Ruba has a Bachelor Degree in Islamic Studies.
Have you read the so called "thrown out books of the Bible"? Unless you have read them you can't really say what is in them or what you believe about them. Have you actually read the Bible?
As for the "word of God" I believe we have already been through this debate. Both the Bible and the Quran are in agreement that "Jesus" is the word of God.
Who would you say that God is actually speaking about in this verse?
"He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He pleases. La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the All-Mighty, the All-Wise."
I have no problem with your belief, what I take offense to is you mocking of mine. It is good to debate religion but when one mocks or makes fun of the other then this is not debate this is demeaning. I have seen people come on ES and mock Muslims beliefs too and quite frankly I find it equally as offensive.
Look, when you tell me something you believe, I accept it. For instance the age of Ayisha at marriage to the prophet is commonly said to be eight and widely believed by Muslims. But you have given explanation as to why you believe she was older and I have even defended your belief of this. I really don't know her age but I accept your belief that she was older and I don't mock you about this.
It is interesting that you say we are being blasphemous, when this was the very accusation against Jesus. Thank you.
You believe that Jesus was a man. This man Jesus hung on the cross, and with his dying breath he asked his God for forgiveness of those that hung him there. Once again I say:
"If I want to follow a man, THIS IS the kind a man that I want to follow, and if I want to serve a God THIS IS the kind of God that I want to serve."
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
(I'm busy reading some Dickens at the moment.)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic