posted
If anyone who's non Muslim looked below they'll know how serious Allah is about the truth of Islam.
Qur'an 9:71 "O Prophet, strive hard [fighting ] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed."
Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them."
Qur'an 4:168 "Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy."
Qur'an 4:114 "He who disobeys the Apostle after guidance has been revealed will burn in Hell."
Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering."
Qur'an 33:64 "Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers [whom he defines as Christians in the 5th surah] and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior. That Day their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire. They will say: 'Woe to us! We should have obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!' 'Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!'"
Qur'an 5:10 "Those who reject, disbelieve and deny Our signs, proofs and verses will be companions of Hell-Fire."
Qur'an 88:1 "Has the narration reached you of the overwhelming (calamity)? Some faces (all disbelievers, Jews and Christians) that Day, will be humiliated, downcast, scorched by the burning fire, while they are made to drink from a boiling hot spring."
Qur'an 74:31 "We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the People of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease."
Qur'an 72:15 "The disbelievers are the firewood of hell."
Qur'an 72:17 "If any turns away from the reminder of his Lord (the Qur'an), He will thrust him into an ever growing torment, and cause for him a severe penalty."
Qur'an 72:25 "Whoever disobeys the Lord and His Messenger then there is for him the fire of Hell where they shall abide forever."
Qur'an 88:21 "You are not a warden over them; except for those who turn away and disbelieve, in which case, he will be punished with the severest punishment. Verily to Us they will return."
Qur'an 90:19 "But those who reject Our Signs, Proofs, and Verses, they are the unhappy Companions of the Left Hand. Fire will be their awning, vaulting over them."
Qur'an 95:4 "We have indeed created man in the best molds. Then do We abase him, reducing him to be the lowest of the low, except such as believe."
Qur'an 2:64 "But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you."
Qur'an 66:9 "O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelieving Infidels and the Hypocrites; be severe against them. Their abode is Hell, an evil resort."
Qur'an 60:1 "Believers, take not my enemies and yours as allies, offering them love, even though they have rejected the truth that has come to you, and have driven out the Prophet and you because you believe in Allah! If you have come out to struggle [fight jihad] in My Cause, and to seek My Pleasure, (take them not as friends), holding secret converse of love with them: for I am aware of all you conceal. And any of you that does this has strayed from the Straight Path. If they were to get the better of you, they would be your foes, and stretch forth their hands and their tongues against you with evil (designs)."
Qur'an 60:4 "We reject you. Hostility and hate have come between us forever, unless you believe in Allah only.'"
Qur'an 48:13 "If any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a Blazing Fire for them!"
Qur'an 48:28 "It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth (Islam), that he may make it superior to every other religion, exalting it over them. Allah is a sufficient Witness. Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah. Those who are with him are severe with Infidel unbelievers."
Qur'an 47:3 "Those who disbelieve follow vanities, while those who believe follow truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah coin for men their similitudes [resemblances] as a lesson. Whoever denies faith [in Islam and Muhammad], his work is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."
Qur'an 9:2 "You cannot weaken Allah or escape. Allah will disgrace the unbelievers and put those who reject Him to shame."
Qur'an 9:4 "You cannot escape Allah, weaken or frustrate Him. And proclaim a grievous penalty of a painful doom to those who reject [Islamic] Faith."
Qur'an 9:17 "The disbelievers have no right to visit the mosques of Allah while bearing witness against their own souls to infidelity. These it is whose doings are in vain, and in the fire shall they abide. Only he shall visit the mosques of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day, and keeps up devotional obligations, pays the zakat, and fears none but Allah."
Qur'an 9:28 "Believers, truly the pagan disbelievers are unclean."
Qur'an 9:30 "The Jews call Uzair (Ezra) the son of Allah, and the Christians say that the Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying from their mouths; they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's (Himself) fights against them, cursing them, damning and destroying them. How perverse are they!"
Qur'an 9:33 "He has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the Religion of Truth (Islam) to make it superior over all religions, even though the disbelievers detest (it)."
Qur'an 9:63 "Know they not that for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger is the Fire of Hell wherein they shall dwell? That is the supreme disgrace."
Qur'an 9:66 "Make no excuses: you have rejected Faith after you had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for they are disbelievers."
Qur'an 9:113 "It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for the forgiveness for disbelievers, even though they be close relatives, after it is clear to them that they are the inmates of the Flaming Hell Fire."
Qur'an 5:78 "Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled."
Qur'an 5:80 "You see many of them allying themselves with the Unbelievers [other translations read: "Infidels"]. Vile indeed are their souls. Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide."
Qur'an 5:82 "You will find the Jews and disbelievers [defined as Christians in 5:73] the most vehement in hatred for the Muslims."
Qur'an 5:86 "Those who reject Islam and are disbelievers, denying our Signs and Revelations - they shall be the owners of the Hell Fire." Qur'an 2:191 "Slay them wherever you find and catch them, and drive them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter."
Qur'an 33:25 "Allah drove the disbelievers back...and helped the believers in battle.... He terrorized the People of the Book so that you killed some and made many captive."
Qur'an 18:103 "Say: 'Shall we inform you of who will be the greatest losers? ...Those who reject my Revelations... Hell is their reward, because they rejected Islam, and took My proofs, verses, and lessons, and those of My Messengers by way of jest in mockery.'"
Qur'an 52:9 "On the Day when heaven will heave in dreadful shaking, trembling, and mountains will fly hither and thither, woe to those who reject [me], that play in shallow trifles and sport in vain discourses. That Day they will be pushed down by force, thrust with a horrible thrust into the Fire of Hell. Unable to resist, they shall be driven to the fire with violence."
Qur'an 40:10 "Lo, those who disbelieve will be informed by proclamation: 'Verily Allah's abhorrence is more terrible than your aversion to yourselves. Allah's hatred of you is terrible, seeing that you were called to the Faith [of submission] and you refused.'"
Qur'an 40:35 "Those who dispute the Signs and Verses of Allah without any authority, grievous and odious, hateful and disgusting, is it in the sight of Allah and the Believers.'"
Qur'an 20:48 "Verily it has been revealed to us that the Penalty of Doom awaits those who reject and deny."
Qur'an 20:100 "Whoever turns from it, he shall bear a burden on the Day of Doom. Grievous evil will the load on them. We shall gather the Mujrimun (disbeliever) blue or blind-eyed with thirst.... My Lord will blast them and scatter them as dust."
Qur'an 21:06 "Not one of the populations which We destroyed believed: will these believe? ...So we saved whom We pleased, and We destroyed the disbelievers."
Qur'an 21:10 "Verily, We have sent down for you a Book in which is your reminder. Have you then no sense? How many towns have We utterly destroyed because of their wrongs, exchanging them for other people? When they (felt) Our Torment, behold, they (began to) fly. Fly not, but return to that which emasculated you so that you may be interrogated. They cried: 'Woe to us!' Their crying did not cease till We mowed them down as ashes silent and quenched."
Qur'an 21:98 "Verily you (unbelievers), and that which you worship besides Allah, are faggots for the Hell Fire! And come to it you will! There, sobbing and groaning will be your lot."
Qur'an 46:20 "On that Day the unbelievers will be placed before the Fire: 'You squandered your good things in this life and you sought comfort from them, but today shall you be rewarded with a penalty of humiliation.'"
Qur'an 59:4 "If any one resists Allah, verily Allah is severe in Punishment, stern in reprisal."
Qur'an 2:39 "Those who reject and deny Our Signs will be inmates of the Hell Fire and will abide there forever."
Qur'an 2:99 "We have sent down to you Manifest Signs; and none reject them but those who are perverse."
Qur'an 2:71 "The semblance of the infidels is one who shouts to one who cannot hear. They are deaf, dumb, and blind. They make no sense."
Qur'an 2:174 "Those who conceal Allah's revelations in the [Bible] Scripture Book, and thus make a miserable profit thereby [selling it to Muhammad], swallow Fire into themselves; Allah will not address them. Grievous will be their doom."
Qur'an 2:175 "They are the ones who bartered away guidance for error and Torment in place of Forgiveness. Ah, what boldness (they show) for the Fire! (Their doom is) because Allah sent down the Book in truth but those who seek causes of dispute in the Book are in a schism of great opposition."
Qur'an 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion."
Qur'an 4:90 "If they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them."
Qur'an 8:20 "Those who do not obey are the worst of beasts, the vilest of animals in the sight of Allah. They are deaf and dumb. Those who do not understand are senseless."
Qur'an 8:36 "The unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the Way of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have intense regrets and sighs. It will become an anguish for them, then they will be subdued. The unbelievers shall be driven into hell in order that Allah may distinguish the bad from the good and separate them. Allah wants to heap the wicked one over the other and cast them into Hell. They are the losers."
Qur'an 8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Qur'an 8:40 "If people are obstinate, and refuse to surrender, know Allah is your Supporter."
Qur'an 8:50 "If you could have seen the infidels when the angels drew away their souls, striking their faces and smiting their backs. The angels said: 'Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire.'"
Qur'an 8:52 "They denied and rejected the revelations of Allah, and Allah destroyed them, punishing them for their crimes: for Allah is strict, severe in punishment."
Qur'an 61:7 "Who does greater wrong than one who invents falsehood against Allah, even as he is being summoned to Submission? And Allah guides not the disbelievers. Their intention is to extinguish Allah's Light (by blowing) with their mouths: But Allah will complete His Light, even though the Unbelievers detest (it). It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth (Islam), that he may make it conquer all religion, even though the disbelievers hate (it)."
Qur'an 2:104 "To those who don't submit there is a grievous punishment."
Qur'an 3:4 "As a guidance to mankind, He sent down the criterion (to judge between right and wrong). Truly, for those who deny the proofs and signs of Allah, the torture will be severe; Allah is powerful, the Lord of Retribution."
Qur'an 3:10 "As for those who deny [Islam], neither their wealth nor their children will help them in the least against Allah. They shall be faggots for the fire of Hell."
Qur'an 3:11 "The punishment of Allah is severe. So tell the unbelieving infidels: 'You will surely be vanquished, seized by Allah, and driven to Hell. How bad a preparation.'"
Qur'an 3:26 "You [Allah] exalt whom You please and debase and humiliate whom You will. Those who believe should not take unbelievers as their friends...guard yourselves from them.... Allah commands you to beware of Him."
Qur'an 3:32 "Say: 'Obey Allah and His Messenger;' If they refuse, remember Allah does not like unbelieving infidels."
Qur'an 3:55 "Allah said, 'Jesus, I will take you and raise you to Myself and rid you of the infidels (who have forged the lie that you are My son).... Those who are infidels will surely receive severe torment both in this world and the next; and none will they have as a savior for them."
Qur'an 3:61 "If anyone disputes with you about Jesus being divine, flee them and pray that Allah will curse them."
Qur'an 3:62 "This is the true account, the true narrative, the true explanation: There is no Ilah (God) except Allah; and Allah - He is the Mighty. And if they turn away, then lo! Allah is aware of the corrupters, the mischief-makers. Say: 'People of the Book, come to common terms as an agreement between us and you: That we all shall worship none but Allah.'"
Qur'an 3:84 "Say (Muhammad): 'We believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes [of Israel], and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered, bowing our will (in Islam).'"
Qur'an 3:85 "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Surrender), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who are losers."
Qur'an 3:87 "Of such, the reward is the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all men, all together. Their penalty of doom will not be lightened."
Qur'an 3:118 "Believers! Take not into your intimacy those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, and Christians). They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin. Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths. What their hearts conceal is far worse. When they are alone, they bite off the very tips of their fingers at you in their rage. Say unto them: 'Perish in your rage.'"
Qur'an 3:141 "This is so that Allah may test the faithful and destroy the unbelieving infidels." [Another translation:] "Allah's object is to purge those that are true in Faith and blight the disbelievers. This is so that Allah may test the faithful and destroy the unbelieving infidels."
Qur'an 3:150 "Soon We shall strike terror into the hearts of the Infidels, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be in the Fire!"
Qur'an 33:8 "He has prepared for the Unbelievers a grievous Penalty."
Qur'an 33:58 "And those who annoy or malign Muslims bear (on themselves) a crime of calumny and a glaring sin."
Qur'an 24:39 "For those who disbelieve, their deeds are like a mirage in the desert. There is no water for the thirsty. He only finds Allah, who will pay him his due in Hell."
Qur'an 23:40 "Soon they will regret. Torment and an awful cry will overtake them. We have made such men rubbish, like rotting plants. So away with the people."
Qur'an 24:57 "Never think that the unbelievers can escape in the land. Their abode is Fire!"
Qur'an 4:12 "Those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment."
Sorry guys, you can't say you weren't warned..its never too late to convert and stop those childish arguments. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: I find it odd that there are those who are offended by verses in the Quran and are calling me names because I posted them. I did nothing more than post the verses. If my understanding is incorrect then explain what the verses mean.
The problem I have with your approach to search for answers is that you already know the answers and you chose to apply them unequally.
But that is not were you really fall short.
-You make statements and suggestions that are just dumb. No other way to describe them as they are utterly stupid.
For example:
Ignorance is only partly true.
The other side are examples from Muslims: The Teddy Bear incident The Cartoon incident Suicide Bombers Honor Killings ME governments Human rights violations
Let's take the easy ones, shall we. Do you really believe that honor killing is unique to Muslims and that it has anything to do with religion? If that is what you truly believe can you explain to me why Copts commit honor killing? What about Indians of different faiths, be it Hindu, Sikh or Muslims?
You actually suggested that governments' human rights violations is a reflection of Islam. Are you on drugs? seriously! Do you really believe that Qadafi is killing his own people for Islam?
Suicide bombers and terrorism. Are you under the impression it is limited to Muslims? Take again India and many Latin American nations and find out what they have to do with Islam? These examples have to do with corruption, oppression, occupation or other factors that do compel people to act in whichever way they can to gain justice for themselves. They're generally unable to command a fleet of jet fighters to bomb their oppressors or whoever their enemy is.
Yes bad things have been done in the name of Christianty. Have you ever heard me deny this? No, I wont, I will condemn the behavior and I can back my condemnation up with Christ teachings.
There comes that contradiction. You know that "bad things have been done in the name of Christianty" and you hinted that you can show that they did not represent Christian values and teachings. Well why don't you extend that same understanding to Islam?
Are you really telling me that ALL people know Islam to be peaceful? This simply is not the truth. You can say that you know Islam to be peaceful but you cannot say that all people know Islam to be peaceful and you cannot say that all Muslims are peaceful. Same as I cannot say that all Christians are peaceful or that everyone knows all Christians are peaceful.
Exactly.
I stated before that there are text in the Bible that is genocidal. It doesn't take a lot of effort to find it on the net. Does that mean Christians commit crimes because God told them to? There are lunatics and there will always be but most commit crimes for worldly reasons.
Now this may answer your question with regard to the Quranic texts you posted. Quran and Islam does not ask Muslims to lie down and die when they're attacked or victimized. Muslims are asked to fight to defend themselves and sometimes when everything seems to be going against them and they are loosing they are asked to be patient and believe in God and judgment day.
The first text you posted: 004.104 SHAKIR: And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain, and you hope from Allah what they do not hope; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
related directly to time of migration and settlement in "Medina" and numerous battles starting with battle of "Uhud". Verses 101-104 talk about prayers and I think fasting during travel and exemption from prayer obligation. It is a field instruction of what to do and not to be afraid of their enemy because they are also human and feel pain and so on.
I don't have time to go through the rest but the vast majority of Quran was event driven. Something happened and God decided to send instruction to his followers through the prophet and all that crap.
Well, wasn't that boring and self explanatory?
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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yes...wow....Im going to make cakes for a Super Moon party tonight and my next internet 'look up' will be peaceful Islam quotes coz I am a bit gobsmacked at all those mean ones above....
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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@this, I am not under the impression that these things are done only by Muslims as I stated before, and I am fully aware that the majority of Muslims are good and peaceful. The impression that I am under is that these things can be justified by the teachings of Muhammad (pbuh) as the verses from the Quran that I and now Dzosser have posted clearly show. These are opposite to the teaching of Jesus. Now unless you can talk to me without name calling I will not have any further dialog with you. I will in turn give you the same courtesy.
@ Dzosser:
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
__________________________
Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. ______________________________
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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That's some list Dzosser. It certainly isn't childish, but it does prove, once and for all, that our two religions can never be reconciled!
Such a shame.
Yeah..well now that you've been introduced to the only truth in religion, are you still going to remain in square one ?? If you were a Yanomami Indian then fine, but you're not.
Btw there aren't two religions..its only one that's made out of 3 parts, with Islam being the grand finale. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Originally posted by D_Oro: [qb] Ignorance is only partly true.
The other side are examples from Muslims: The Teddy Bear incident The Cartoon incident Suicide Bombers Honor Killings ME governments Human rights violations ...
All of the above are due to political issues.
Apart from Honor Killings which manly take place
in india.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:Originally posted by this: There comes that contradiction. You know that "bad things have been done in the name of Christianty" and you hinted that you can show that they did not represent Christian values and teachings. Well why don't you extend that same understanding to Islam?
Because Muhammad himself did similar bad things setting a bad example for its followers. He told them to follow his examples.
The problem with Islam is with its sacred book and its founder not with its followers. Taking advantage of this confusion, a breed of Muslims has come up with the idea of “reforming Islam.”
Reform derives from Latin refōrmāre, which means to redeem, to reclaim, to renew. All these imply restoring something to its original shape.
But in its original shape Islam is violent and intolerant. Note that, the Christian Reformation began as an attempt to reform, not the Christianity, but the Catholic Church. Many believers were troubled by the Church and its practices, such as the sale of indulgences (tickets to paradise) and simony (buying and selling church positions).
None of these are doctrines of Christianity. These were practices of the Church. The reformers protested against the Church. They did not defy the authority of the Bible.
An analogous reformation also took place in Islam. This reformation was Salafism.
Many westerners, erroneously believe that Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, (1703–1792) is the founder of an extremist sect of Islam. This is not true. Abdul Wahhab did not found a new sect. He was merely a reformer of Islam in the same way that Luther was of Christianity.
On the surface, there are many similarities between Christianity and Islam. Both believe in a God, both rely on an intermediary between man and God, both faiths are eschatological – have a hell, a heaven and an afterlife, etc. However, in their core, they are very different, in fact opposite to one another. The reformatio of both these faiths took the same road, but seaking the origin of their faith, they went opposite directions. Islam is not a continuation of Christianity, as Muhammad and Muslims claim, but it is an anti Christian belief in its core. Christianity advocates freedom of man, Islam, his slavery. One brings the message of liberation, the other, of submission.
In Islam the law comes from God. Man must obey even if those laws appear contrary to reason and are oppressive. This is the reason why “moderate” Muslims cannot oppose stoning adulterers, killing the apostates or other abuses of their fellow practicing Muslims, and their protests do not go beyond a lip service, and that too is only for the consumption of the western media.
Both Christianity and Islam underwent through reformation. They took similar paths, but they ended up in two opposite poles. While Christian reformation brought freedom, Enlightenment and democracy, Islamic reformation bore terrorism.
What today’s so called Islamic reformers are proposing is not reformation but transformation of Islam. Unlike the above mentioned reformers, these new reformer wannabes do not want to go to the origin of Islam, but rather they want to eschew part of the Quran and the entire Sharia and invent an entirely different religion, still calling it Islam.
This is delusional thinking and impractical, both logically and logistically. It is also strictly prohibited in the Quran.
These neoreformers want to change Islam to something different. They want to bring bid’a to Islam. Is that possible? Can believers have an opinion contrary to what the Quran says? We know that the Quran 33:36, prohibits the believers to have any choice in their OWN matter when Allah and his Messenger have made their choice. How can they decide what is good for the RELIGION?
When the Quran says, “Fighting is ordained for you, even if you don’t like it,” the message is clear. This is God speaking. That is what you have accepted a priori. So how can you dispute with God? Once you accept the Quran as the word of God you cannot pick and choose and discard what you don’t like. This is strictly prohibited, not once but repeatedly.
Do you, then, believe in some parts of the divine writ and deny the truth of other parts? What, then, could be the reward of those among you who do such things but ignominy in the life of this world and, on the Day of Resurrection, they will be consigned to most grievous suffering? For God is not unmindful of what you do. (Q.2:85)
أَفَغَيْرَ اللّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَمًا وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنَزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلاً 6:114 “Am I, then, to look unto anyone but God for judgment [as to what is right and wrong], when it is He who has bestowed upon you from on high this divine writ, clearly spelling out the truth?”
quote:Originally posted by this: Let's take the easy ones, shall we. Do you really believe that honor killing is unique to Muslims and that it has anything to do with religion? If that is what you truly believe can you explain to me why Copts commit honor killing? What about Indians of different faiths, be it Hindu, Sikh or Muslims?
What Muslims and non-Muslims who practise honor killing all have in common is their misogyny, their fear and hatred for women.
A person does not need to be religious to be a misogynist. But that doesn't mean we don't need to fight misogynistic ideologies that derive from religion and culture. In the case of Muslim countries, misogyny is the natural outcome of the Islamic ethos of misogyny.
Women in Islam are regarded as sources of shame. Muhammad said they are awrah which can be translated as object of shame.
"Ali reported the Prophet saying: 'Women have ten ('awrah). When she gets married, the husband covers one, and when she dies the grave covers the ten."
What is awrah? The Encyclopedia of Islam defines 'awrah as pudendum, that is the external genitals, especially of the female. Pudendum derives from the Latin pudor which means sense of shame and modesty. So awrah signify an object of shame that needs to be covered.
What values Islam give to its followers? Quran is very clear that Men are a degree superior to women and that they are their protectors. This undoubtedly conveys the idea that women are incapable to take care of themselves and they are dependent on men. This false image of women is further emphasized when the laws of the Sharia do not recognize women as intelligent enough to witness is a court. The reason given is that if one of them forgets, the other one can remind her. Is there any scientific study that demonstrates women are more forgetful than men? Absolutely not! All these stereotypes convey only one message to the subconscious of the man who believes those teachings are from God. The message is that women are inferior, that they are deficient in intelligent, that they are crooked like a rib that cannot be strengthened. What are the consequences of such conditioning? The consequence is that women should not be trusted. That they are naturally inclined to be wicked, and that they must be punished and even scourged (beaten).
You ask how come Copts commit honor killings too. Although the number of Christian Copts that commit honor killings is very small compared to their number, they are Egyptians, and are influenced by the Egyptian culture in which they live (school upbringing, socializing with Muslims etc) - which is Muslim. If the messages subconsciously make them a misogynist, it is very probable that they will end up as misogynists.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by this: I stated before that there are text in the Bible that is genocidal.
As I explained so many times before the violence in the Bible is descriptive, not prescriptive as is in Islam. The theme in the Old Testament is the holiness of God and the effects of sin on mankind. Jesus took the violence of our own sins upon Himself.
Christians who use violence in the name of God to destroy their enemies have no justification for their actions from Jesus Christ, his life and teachings.
Whereas, Muslims who are engaged in violence and destruction of anyone who opposes Islam, have ample justification for their actions from the Quran and the life and sayings of prophet Muhammad.
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: Originally posted by D_Oro: [qb] Ignorance is only partly true.
The other side are examples from Muslims: The Teddy Bear incident The Cartoon incident Suicide Bombers Honor Killings ME governments Human rights violations ...
All of the above are due to political issues.
Islam, however, is essentially a political ideology.
Political Islam often uses force and even terrorism to achieve its goals.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: Originally posted by D_Oro: [qb] Ignorance is only partly true.
The other side are examples from Muslims: The Teddy Bear incident The Cartoon incident Suicide Bombers Honor Killings ME governments Human rights violations ...
All of the above are due to political issues.
Islam, however, is essentially a political ideology.
Political Islam often uses force and even terrorism to achieve its goals.
If your google tells you this, then happy hunting.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:Originally posted by this: Now this may answer your question with regard to the Quranic texts you posted. Quran and Islam does not ask Muslims to lie down and die when they're attacked or victimized.
All of Muhammad's wars (except in 2 cases) were offensive. How do you explain that?
Muhammad always attacked his victims with no warning and took them by surprise, when people had gone to the fields after their daily business, the gates of their fortresses were open and they were unarmed.
The following hadith makes this point very clear:
Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before meeting them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.” Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4292:
The problem is that Muslims do not know the history of Islam. They are fed with lies and they make no effort to find out the truth.
The truth is that Muslims were never attacked by anyone. They were always the aggressors. In fact Muhammad’s wars are called Qazwah and that means: raid, sudden attack, ambush.
I don’t know what constitutes kindness for Islam. Raiding innocent civilians, killing unarmed people taken by surprise, or massacring their entire male population and enslaving their women and children and even raping them are not acts of kindness. The claim that Islam promotes kindness is an insult to human intelligence. This is like saying Nazism promotes kindness. Islam has advanced by terror and not by kindness.
The order to cast terror in the heart of the enemy is mandated in the Quran 3.151, 8.12. The enemy is anyone who Muhammad chose to attack. These people did not have to be hostile to Muhammad or have done anything against him. He decided that those who do not submit to his cult are the enemy and must be subdued. Or those who are wealthy are the enemy. Muhammad boasted "I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220
Sometimes Muhammad’s words are good, but often his actions are not. Any criminal will tell you doing evil is wrong. Such statement does not make him a good person. He is simply a man whose actions and words do not match.
We can’t disregard all the gory stories of crimes committed by Muhammad just because somewhere he said; “be kind to others”. The question is why he did not walk the talk? If he knew kindness is better than cruelty, why he acted so ruthlessly? Why did he feign holiness?
Muhammad waged over sixty wars according to Tabari. With the exception of Uhud and Khandaq (Trench), all of them were incursions. It is important to note that Muhammad fabricated excuses for his attacks. In all these excuses he shifted the blame on his victims. For example, when he attacked the Bani Qaynuqa the excuse was that a couple of them had disrespected a Muslim woman. When he attacked the Bani Nadir the excuse was that Angel Gabriel had whispered in his ears that the Bani Nadir were plotting to kill him. When he attacked the Bani Quraiza his excuse was that they had confabulated with the Meccans. This is typical mindset of the narcissist. Narcissists always have excuses for their evil deeds. The claim that Muhammad pre-empted an attack by the Bani Mustaliq is a fabrication of Muhammad himself. It is just an excuse based on a lie. The Bani Mustaliq had no reason to attack Medina. It was always Muhammad who initiated the wars and hostilities. The Bani Mustaliq were not interested in Islam and religious wars in Arabia did not exist prior to Islam. They were Jews. They were an educated and cultured people. They were artisans, herdsmen and farmers. They had made their wealth in commerce and in industry, not through marauding. What reason had they to attack Medina, a city impoverish by Muhammad whose citizens had all become thieves and highway robbers? These are lies concocted by Muhammad to convince his foolish followers that his forays were justified. Despite their savagery, the early believers were still humans and must have felt raiding, massacring and pillaging innocent people with no justification is not right. Muhammad had to give them an excuse. When you attack someone, you must have an excuse. Even Hitler had reasons for his attacks. His reason was "to bring civilization to the less evolved people of the world". The reasons Muhammad gave for his raids were just excuses. With these lies his foolhardy followers placated their conscience willingly and descended to new depths of barbarity.
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quote:Originally posted by marydot: If your google tells you this, then happy hunting.
It is a fact that Islam does not separate religion and politics. In fact it is the only religion founded by a military leader.
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quote:Originally posted by this: [QUOTE]Originally posted by D_Oro: You actually suggested that governments' human rights violations is a reflection of Islam. Are you on drugs? seriously! Do you really believe that Qadafi is killing his own people for Islam?
No one said that Qadafi is killing for Islam. Qadafi is a delusional mad man who is killing because he is mad. (Libya by the way is a secular country).
BUT that doesn't mean that human rights violations in many Islamic countries aren't a reflection of Islam.
Sharia is inimical to the ideas enshrined in the Universal declaration of Human Rights. In an Islamist state no individual or group of people can have any rights that do not conform to the tenets of the Sharia. Oppression, intimidation, lack of freedom, and ferocious censorship and public executions are the undeniable facts of life in many Islamic societies.
The UDHR enumerates the rights of the individual that governments are obliged to protect. But Political Islam is opposed to any concept of individual freedom that is not subordinate to Sharia.
“What they call human rights is nothing but a collection of corrupt rules worked out by the Zionists to destroy all true religions.” Ayatollah Khomeini
“When we want to find out what is right and what is wrong we do not go the United Nations; we go to the Holy Koran . . .” Ayatollah Moussave-Khomenehi
The views of Ayatollah Khomeini were extreme even within Islam, of course, but perhaps more insidious are the claims of the apologists that there is no contradiction between Islam and human rights.
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Was Islam a religion of mercy for the 600-900 Jewish men and boys whose heads were piled into trenches after they had surrendered? Was Islam a religion of mercy for the woman who was stabbed to death in the midst of her five children? Was it a religion of mercy for anyone who dared to speak out against Muhammad? No, it wasn’t. When Muhammad finally had a band of dedicated followers who would obey him without question, Islam was not a religion of peace and mercy.
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These stories you are saying are baseless and misunderstood. Stop posting Spams if you want to be credible.
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I'm really sorry, Tareq. I'm trying, but your explanation, indeed the Muslim thought process on these issues, seems so foreign to those of us who are used to overcoming evil with love, that it just doesn't "compute".
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: @this, I am not under the impression that these things are done only by Muslims as I stated before, and I am fully aware that the majority of Muslims are good and peaceful. The impression that I am under is that these things can be justified by the teachings of Muhammad (pbuh) as the verses from the Quran that I and now Dzosser have posted clearly show. These are opposite to the teaching of Jesus. Now unless you can talk to me without name calling I will not have any further dialog with you. I will in turn give you the same courtesy.
@ Dzosser:
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
__________________________
Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. ______________________________
Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.
The impression that I am under is that these things can be justified by the teachings of Muhammad (pbuh) as the verses from the Quran that I and now Dzosser have posted clearly show.
Yes I know and that was the whole point. People can always use religion to justify their actions. That is not limited to Islam. I am of course repeating myself which makes me believe that I do not understand your argument.
I do not intend to argue that the two messages are the same, because I do not care, and if that is the extent of your argument then so be it. So that part I will not comment on. I commented on statements that were contradictory and some that were nonsensical. And I don't understand why you focused on the "all" part of "Islam is peaceful religion and all people(including you) know it"! It was clearly and exaggeration to make a point.
With regard to texts from Quran versus texts from the Bible, I understand that you believe the Qruanic texts can be used to justify crimes while texts from the bible can not because they're so peaceful and loving. Is that it?
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quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: Are you suggesting that Mr Dzosser's list of Quranic quotations above are a depiction of
"Islam, a religion of mercy"?
My 'list of Qur'anic quotations' is simply to tell the infidels how serious Allah is about Islam, you can't expect someone who's been appointed messenger of Allah to be asked to give his left cheek to who ever slaps him on his right one, it just won't work anymore..corrections had to be made to finally stop this mess. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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@this, I originally posted in response to once upon a time's post, I did not see it as clearly exaggerated.
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Islam is quite the opposite. Islam is peaceful religion and all people(including you) know it but you are just arrogant to admit it.
I mean no disrespect but you should know that " ALL " people do not know that Islam is a peaceful religion.
... and surly you are aware of the horrible things done in the name of Islam. Even if the Islam that you know and love is peaceful, there is another face of Islam that many in the west see, and it is not peaceful... as you surly must know.
...and I agree that people can and do use religion to justify their actions. My point is that you cannot use the teachings of Jesus to justify violence but you can use the teachings of the Muhammad(pbuh) to justify violence.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: Are you suggesting that Mr Dzosser's list of Quranic quotations above are a depiction of
"Islam, a religion of mercy"?
My 'list of Qur'anic quotations' is simply to tell the infidels how serious Allah is about Islam, you can't expect someone who's been appointed messenger of Allah to be asked to give his left cheek to who ever slaps him on his right one, it just won't work anymore..corrections had to be made to finally stop this mess.
Dzosser, It only works if you believe that your God is more powerful than a man.
... and looking at the state of the ME what mess do feel has been stopped?
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There's the difference Mr Dzosser: I (and also other Christians) don't consider that exemplar of overcoming evil with love (i.e. the cheek slapping thing) to be a mess! We believe that it is fundamental to God's expression of His love to all of us, even the unbelievers and idolaters. In which case, we become even more convinced that Muhammad's message couldn't possibly have come from the one true God. As the nature of God, as displayed in the Bible, is to love, above all else, why would His nature suddenly change to be the hateful one which is represented in your quotations? Islam cannot seriously assert itself to be the continuation or fulfillment of Christianity, from where we stand, it's patent nonsense to even imagine it. In fact, for us to regard Islam as the "Grand Finale" of Christ's ministry here on earth, would be the grossest blasphemy imaginable!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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The creation of Lucifer is a mess in my view point, now think about that. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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My first thought is that Lucifer may not be an actual being, but more a personification (for the sake of easier understanding) of free will being used selfishly. But, without free will, we would be of no use to God, so it is a necessary (possible source of) "evil" which we must endure.
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: @this, I originally posted in response to once upon a time's post, I did not see it as clearly exaggerated.
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Islam is quite the opposite. Islam is peaceful religion and all people(including you) know it but you are just arrogant to admit it.
I mean no disrespect but you should know that " ALL " people do not know that Islam is a peaceful religion.
... and surly you are aware of the horrible things done in the name of Islam. Even if the Islam that you know and love is peaceful, there is another face of Islam that many in the west see, and it is not peaceful... as you surly must know.
...and I agree that people can and do use religion to justify their actions. My point is that you cannot use the teachings of Jesus to justify violence but you can use the teachings of the Muhammad(pbuh) to justify violence.
What a waste of time.
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I mean no disrespect but you should know that " ALL " people do not know that Islam is a peaceful religion.
I personally don't care what others think about my religion. And in addition to that, I am thankful to my Book and religion that they taught me to respect, not to judge and love other prophets like I do mine.
Posts: 2591 | From: **Ex Oriente Lux** | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: Are you suggesting that Mr Dzosser's list of Quranic quotations above are a depiction of
"Islam, a religion of mercy"?
My 'list of Qur'anic quotations' is simply to tell the infidels how serious Allah is about Islam, you can't expect someone who's been appointed messenger of Allah to be asked to give his left cheek to who ever slaps him on his right one, it just won't work anymore..corrections had to be made to finally stop this mess.
Dzosser, It only works if you believe that your God is more powerful than a man.
A Muslim does believe that God is more powerful than a man, a muslim does not believe that God IS a man.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by 'Shahrazat: I mean no disrespect but you should know that " ALL " people do not know that Islam is a peaceful religion.
I personally don't care what others think about my religion. And in addition to that, I am thankful to my Book and religion that they taught me to respect, not to judge and love other prophets like I do mine.
Shah, Do you feel that I have been disrespectful of someone?
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Ayisha, seeing as Mt Dzosser quoted all that hatred stuff directly from the Quran: does that mean that if we ever, eventually, get to meet that my head will be off and my wife enslaved? Or should we just hide indoors for the rest of our time in Egypt?
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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Christians do not believe that God IS a man in the way you imply.
As Muslims believe that the Quran is eternal, uncreated, and is the Word of God found in physical book form, they should be able to understand that Jesus is eternal, uncreated, and is the Living Word of God in physical living form.
God wanted to reveal Himself to mankind under created circumstances congenial to human understanding. According to the Bible, God is love. In Biblical perspective, by entering into this world, God does not demean Himself; rather He exalts Himself. By His visitation on earth, He does not cloud His glory; rather, He magnifies it among mankind. By His presence among us, He does not become the lesser; rather, He becomes the greater for our greater praise. By being not only above us but with us in Jesus Immanuel, He not only acts in conformity with Himself; even more, He is being Himself and He is being what He will be.
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quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: Ayisha, seeing as Mt Dzosser quoted all that hatred stuff directly from the Quran: does that mean that if we ever, eventually, get to meet that my head will be off and my wife enslaved?
Whatever happens I expect you to turn the other cheek and combat any evils with love, of course. Are you saying you would object to your wife being enslaved by us terror driven muslims whose country you have chosen to live in?
quote:Or should we just hide indoors for the rest of our time in Egypt?
Why do you live here if it's so terrifying? Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: Christians do not believe that God IS a man in the way you imply.
yes you do.
quote:As Muslims believe that the Quran is eternal, uncreated, and is the Word of God found in physical book form, they should be able to understand that Jesus is eternal, uncreated, and is the Living Word of God in physical living form.
So you are likening Quran to Jesus now? Not sure if I feel happy or sad about that.
quote:God wanted to reveal Himself to mankind under created circumstances congenial to human understanding.
They understood the nature of God long before Jesus or were the people by then so stupid they couldn't grasp what those before could?
quote:According to the Bible, God is love. In Biblical perspective, by entering into this world, God does not demean Himself; rather He exalts Himself. By His visitation on earth, He does not cloud His glory; rather, He magnifies it among mankind. By His presence among us, He does not become the lesser; rather, He becomes the greater for our greater praise. By being not only above us but with us in Jesus Immanuel, He not only acts in conformity with Himself; even more, He is being Himself and He is being what He will be.
So God makes Himself 'better' by being a man? God is more 'exhalted and magnified' by being a man? God being a man makes Him HIMSELF? And you say Christians do not believe Him to be a man in the way I imply?
The more of your copy paste drivel I read only enhances the obvious problem among people like you in that you use flowery quotes which are totally contradictory and with absolutely no understanding of any of it especially the concept of GOD.
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Is this a different side of Ayisha we're seeing? Has Dzosser's post "let the cat out of the bag" so to speak, and now you can no longer pretend that Islam isn't the force for evil against every single person who will not bow down to Muhammad and his god? That's what the quotes say, isn't it? Or has Dzosser taken them "out of context", as the non-Muslims are usually accused of doing?
"Why do you live here if it's so terrifying?"
It hasn't been terrifying at all! At least not until a person whom I always imagined to be moderate and who seemed quite kind, now sees fit to turn on me because one of her fellow jihadists has given the game away!!!!
Is this the way "Land of Freedom - EGYPT" is heading? No more foreigners? No more tourists? No more "business" wives? Muslims given free reign to harass and kill Christians and other so-called infidels?
When are you having a fitting for your niqab, Ayisha, 'cause you won't be allowed to go around with your hair (or any skin, god forbid) on show like some sharmoota, will you?
Funny thing is: I was, today, told by a shop worker in the government shop on Youseff Hassan Street, that the "good man" Bin laden will be in Egypt within two months, then I'll have to fly away from Egypt! But I'm sure this won't affect a good Muslima like you.
Roll on a bankrupt Egypt! But it will be ALL Allah's, so that's fine.
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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Beware of our jihadist brothers then, we usually decapitate infidels on sight, I advise you to convert, unless you'd rather pay jizya, we'll soon be breathing down every non Muslim's neck, you'll be forced to grow a beard, wear a black short galabeya and cover your head with a turban..sit tight and out of sight my dear ourluxor. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:So God makes Himself 'better' by being a man?
No, he makes himself better understood to man.
God is spirit, he is not a man. God IS not a man but that doesn't mean he CANNOT become man, if he wishes. The eternal Word of God took on a real human nature, while still remaining fully God in essence.
He came and spoke to us and became man so that we can understand him. He became man so man might become a god as Saint Athanasius the Great said. Salvation totally relies on this truth, Christ’s true humanity as much as His true Divinity. If man is mortal, he is immortal by partaking of His divine nature (2 Peter 1: 4) and it is true to say along with St. Gregory of Nazianzus “that which He has not assumed He has not healed; but that which is united to His Godhead is also saved.”
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quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: Is this a different side of Ayisha we're seeing? Has Dzosser's post "let the cat out of the bag" so to speak, and now you can no longer pretend that Islam isn't the force for evil against every single person who will not bow down to Muhammad and his god? That's what the quotes say, isn't it? Or has Dzosser taken them "out of context", as the non-Muslims are usually accused of doing?
Have you finally gone senile or are you reading something other than what I actually typed?
quote:"Why do you live here if it's so terrifying?"
It hasn't been terrifying at all! At least not until a person whom I always imagined to be moderate and who seemed quite kind, now sees fit to turn on me because one of her fellow jihadists has given the game away!!!!
yep, senile!
quote:Is this the way "Land of Freedom - EGYPT" is heading? No more foreigners? No more tourists? No more "business" wives? Muslims given free reign to harass and kill Christians and other so-called infidels?
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Was this reply to me?
quote:When are you having a fitting for your niqab, Ayisha, 'cause you won't be allowed to go around with your hair (or any skin, god forbid) on show like some sharmoota, will you?
Senile, it must be as there is nothing in my post that could warrant this reply
quote:Funny thing is: I was, today, told by a shop worker in the government shop on Youseff Hassan Street, that the "good man" Bin laden will be in Egypt within two months, then I'll have to fly away from Egypt! But I'm sure this won't affect a good Muslima like you.
Ahh now I see, some moron in the shop gave you a hard time so you are giving me one, what happened to the love will combat all evils? I don't think that means bash me coz someone else bashed on you does it? Mind you, good old Bush thought so didn't he, and God was on his side, apparently.
quote:Roll on a bankrupt Egypt! But it will be ALL Allah's, so that's fine.
ROFL The entire universe belongs to Allah! Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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The Hebrew Bible itself supports the view that God can become a man, without ceasing to be God, since there are places where God appeared in human form:
"The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw THREE MEN standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. He said, ‘If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash YOUR FEET and rest under this tree. Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way-now that you have come to your servant.’ ‘Very well,’ they answered, ‘do as you say’… He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. WHILE THEY ATE, he stood near them under a tree. ‘Where is your wife Sarah?’ they asked him. ‘There, in the tent,’ he said. THEN THE LORD SAID, ‘I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son’… THEN THE LORD SAID TO ABRAHAM, ‘Why did Sarah laugh and say, "Will I really have a child, now that I am old?" Is anything too hard for the LORD? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son.’ Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, ‘I did not laugh.’ BUT HE SAID, ‘Yes, you did laugh.’ WHEN THE MEN GOT UP TO LEAVE, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:So God makes Himself 'better' by being a man?
No, he makes himself better understood to man.
God is spirit, he is not a man.
He came and spoke to us and became man so that we can understand him. He became man so man might become a god as Saint Athanasius the Great said. Salvation totally relies on this truth, Christ’s true humanity as much as His true Divinity. If man is mortal, he is immortal by partaking of His divine nature (2 Peter 1: 4) and it is true to say along with St. Gregory of Nazianzus “that which He has not assumed He has not healed; but that which is united to His Godhead is also saved.”
More flowery contradictions that make no sense at all.
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Ayisha, God loving us enough to willing come in the likeness of sinful flesh to help us, makes perfect sense to us. We get it and we understand this is foolishness to you. So either you don't understand that God can love us this much or you believe that he has limited ability and is not capable of walking among his creation.
What makes no sense is why one who believes the Quran to be Gods word does not follow it. One of the many verses from the Quran that Dzosser posted that are troubling is the one that tells you to pray curses on me. I don't believe that you do this but when I read that you are commanded to do this it is quite frankly hurtful. I don't understand it at all. This is so contrary to what we are taught.
"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." (Luke 23:34)
and Muhammad's last words:
Ibn Abbas, his cousin and highly reliable transmitter of traditions, narrated this hadith.
When the disease of Allah's Apostle got aggravated, he . . . . would say, ". . . May Allah curse the Jews [and] Christians because they took the graves of their prophets as places of worship." By that he warned his follower of imitating them, by doing that which they did. (Bukhari)
[Muhammad] said, "Turn the pagans out of the Arabian Peninsula" (Bukhari)
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Ayisha, God loving us enough to willing come in the likeness of sinful flesh to help us, makes perfect sense to us. We get it and we understand this is foolishness to you. So either you don't understand that God can love us this much or you believe that he has limited ability and is not capable of walking among his creation.
I wrote a long reply but found it better to delete it. If you see those as the only 2 options for me if I 'see this as foolishness' to you then there is no point.
quote:What makes no sense is why one who believes the Quran to be Gods word does not follow it. One of the many verses from the Quran that Dzosser posted that are troubling is the one that tells you to pray curses on me. I don't believe that you do this but when I read that you are commanded to do this it is quite frankly hurtful. I don't understand it at all. This is so contrary to what we are taught.
The only one I see like that in what Dzosser posted is 3.61. if you really wanted to actually KNOW the truth you would check that translation against a few others and get a better idea of what it REALLY says, as that translation is quite like no other I have seen. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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"Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." (Luke 23:34)
I thought it was “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” (“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”) and “Father, into Your hands I commit my spirit”
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
OK then, yes I probably am starting on the road to Gaga Land.
But I haven't yet felt the need to nit-pick, like you have about the last words of Jesus. It's silly to be that pedantic when you know what vw meant!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Ayisha, God loving us enough to willing come in the likeness of sinful flesh to help us, makes perfect sense to us. We get it and we understand this is foolishness to you. So either you don't understand that God can love us this much or you believe that he has limited ability and is not capable of walking among his creation.
I wrote a long reply but found it better to delete it. If you see those as the only 2 options for me if I 'see this as foolishness' to you then there is no point.
quote:What makes no sense is why one who believes the Quran to be Gods word does not follow it. One of the many verses from the Quran that Dzosser posted that are troubling is the one that tells you to pray curses on me. I don't believe that you do this but when I read that you are commanded to do this it is quite frankly hurtful. I don't understand it at all. This is so contrary to what we are taught.
The only one I see like that in what Dzosser posted is 3.61. if you really wanted to actually KNOW the truth you would check that translation against a few others and get a better idea of what it REALLY says, as that translation is quite like no other I have seen.
Dzosser knows Arabic so I trust that he would post an accurate translation. I am assuming the translation that you want known is to pray for a curse on the one who lies. This too is an odd prayer because both can be telling the truth as they know it... being ignorant of something is not the same as lying about something.
Jesus teaches that we bless those that curse us and we forgive those who trespass against us and by doing this he will lift us up. He never ask us to curse another.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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