posted
People should be allowed to practice their religion, whatever that may be, in any country belonging to the "free world"...
However....
Al Jazeera do have a beef with the US for not allowing their station to be broadcast on US satelite TV. I don't think this piece is entirely impartial.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
"Some American people are racists and are not shy about displaying it either."
Isn't that a rather pointless statement? Are not some English racist? Or some French? Or, just about every other race or nationality?
In my experience, among the wost racists are the Arabs! A young man was telling me, just last week, about how the God loves Egypt above all other places. God loves the Egyptian so much that he has banished so much evil from only Egypt, and only allows the likes of werewolves and vampires to exist in other countries, never in Egypt!
Maybe that's how multisphinx got the title for his/her other posting?
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: "Some American people are racists and are not shy about displaying it either."
Isn't that a rather pointless statement? Are not some English racist? Or some French? Or, just about every other race or nationality?
True, but the article was about Americans
quote:In my experience, among the wost racists are the Arabs! A young man was telling me, just last week, about how the God loves Egypt above all other places. God loves the Egyptian so much that he has banished so much evil from only Egypt, and only allows the likes of werewolves and vampires to exist in other countries, never in Egypt!
ROFL, It's quite frightening what has been introduced into belief here really. I discovered yesterday that playing the Quran so the whole street can hear it 24 hours a day while you're not actually at home keeps the devil away. Probably that's why there are no vampires and warewolves, in our street anyway. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
You must have lead a sheltered life these past four years madam!
A rooftop flat near us had to have the Quran playing for about a month (I think) before the tenants arrived. When I complained that it disturbed our guests through the night, they did turn it down a bit, but couldn't possibly turn it off as the devil would inhabit the flat before the people moved in!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I agree wholeheartedly, for the Muslim listener.
But not to unbelievers who are trying to sleep so that they won't be too tired to go out the following day and spend their money with the same local (Muslim) traders in the Muslim country which is costing them a great deal of money to visit.
The early morning Mosque is bad enough (and not really necessary!), but I realise that the "loud as possible" prayer calls have become traditional and we must therefore suffer them. In fact many foreigners like to hear them, as they add a certain "authenticity" to their experience. But surely Allah can hear a constant recording of the Quran even at a whisper?
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
From an American perspective I thought the video was quite rational. It actually spoke worse of Europe in regards to Islamaphobia.
It also said that Muslims need to look at their own countries because of the racism and lack of religious freedoms there, and he pointed out that America does a better job than they do. I have never heard of one case in America where our government kills or jails a person because they change their religion..... You could change your religion daily as far as anyone is concerned here.
Nice interview, there needs to be more of the same.
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: I agree wholeheartedly, for the Muslim listener.
But not to unbelievers who are trying to sleep so that they won't be too tired to go out the following day and spend their money with the same local (Muslim) traders in the Muslim country which is costing them a great deal of money to visit.
The early morning Mosque is bad enough (and not really necessary!), but I realise that the "loud as possible" prayer calls have become traditional and we must therefore suffer them. In fact many foreigners like to hear them, as they add a certain "authenticity" to their experience. But surely Allah can hear a constant recording of the Quran even at a whisper?
Isn't that what democracy is all about?
I look at it like this if the majority of the community are Muslims, then they have the right to play the Quran. But if Christians were majority, then I could understand what you mean.
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
multisphinx, You've hit the nail right on the head!!! You're perfectly happy to impose your noise on others, but a Christian community wouldn't dream of imposing all that racket on unbelievers. In our country, even the once a week Sunday church bells at 9am are being outlawed because they are disturbing someones lie-in! That's one of the major differences between the practices of our two religions, yours doesn't take into account anyone else, whereas mine tries to accommodate everyone (too much at times, IMHO). A democracy is not meant to be an opportunity for the majority to oppress the minority, but to administer with equanimity for the wellbeing of the whole population.
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
multisphinx, I suppose that this is the Quran in action, is it? "No compulsion in religion"; if you don't want to become Muslim, you can either live in another country, or stay here to be oppressed by the constant religious harrassment of the Quran being shouted through loudspeaker systems at you at least five times a day! Oppression doesn't necessarily mean that you stop someone doing what they want, it is more a case of imposing your will or ways upon someone who doesn't want them!
Once upon a time, Islamophobia is an "irrational" fear of Islam. Sadly, there is an absolutely huge number of people who have learnt through personal loss or experience to fear Islam. In which case it ceases to be a "phobia" as it has then become a "rational" fear of Islam. Please don't misuse words to demonise these unfortunate folk who have suffered at the hands of nutters of some sort who claim to be killing for Islam.
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
^ Yes there no compulsion in religion. Islam is logical and if someone does not do something for the sake of the creator, WHAT IS THE POINT? So if someone becomes muslim out of fear of the ruling elite or whomever. He might as well not be muslim. If you see that happening it is no way islam.
Look here my friend, lets say a Muslim decides to donate a million dollars to an orphanage. If he did not make that donation for the sake of the creator, then it was pointless and he will not get rewarded for it. Why? because he did not do it for the pleasure of the creator. Instead he could have done it out of vanity, to boast, or any other reason. If its not for the sake of the creator. Why should he get rewarded
I will give an example. Let say I was a carpenter and you came to my shop and asked me to build you a chair. Instead of building your chair I decided to build a bed frame for myself. Would you compensate me for the time I was supposed to be building your chair. NO most likely you wouldn't. This is how islam teaches one to erase these feeling of haughtiness.
Back to what i was saying, if someone becomes Muslim out of fear of the ruling elite there is no reward in it. So why become Muslim in the first place. Its illogical and Islam is against it.
I am sorry that you find the quran that repulsive. If you built a church next to my house, I would be more then happy to hear your church bells ring. Why? Because it is your right and I respect it.
I still believe the irrational fear of Islam is prevalent.Why? Because there are people who still don't understand islam and they never will as long as they have a closed mind. As long as you fear it you won't understand it. In todays Muslim world, culture has been amalgamated with islam and this why you see the ignorance amongst the Muslim today. And extremism is a different story. And their is no point for me to get into the extreme of it. Because extremism exist with every religion group.
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
The accusation of Islamophobia is galling, considering that the Islamic texts order Muslims to instill precisely such fear in the non-Muslims:
--Terrorize them, 3:151, 33:26, 59:2, 8:12, 8:57, 8:60. (also see 9:5). 59:13—the disbelievers fear Muslims more than Allah. Note the 3:151 refers to attacking those disbelievers who ascribe partners (Christians, Jews, Idolaters). 8:60. “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.” And from the hadith:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them). [Also see Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1062, 1063, 1066, 1067; Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 127 and 141].
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
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posted
^ What ever you say does not matter to me. You will always take things out of context and put your spin to it. It is point less to have dialogue with someone as closed minded as you.
GOOD LUCK!On your mission..
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: The accusation of Islamophobia is galling, considering that the Islamic texts order Muslims to instill precisely such fear in the non-Muslims:
--Terrorize them, 3:151, 33:26, 59:2, 8:12, 8:57, 8:60. (also see 9:5). 59:13—the disbelievers fear Muslims more than Allah. Note the 3:151 refers to attacking those disbelievers who ascribe partners (Christians, Jews, Idolaters). 8:60. “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.” And from the hadith:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them). [Also see Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1062, 1063, 1066, 1067; Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 127 and 141].
posted
Lots of Muslims fear Islam too, and their fear in this sense is warranted (i.e., not a phobia). For example, for a Muslim publicly criticize the Quran or parts of it, he or she could risk being accused of apostasy or blasphemy, the penalties for which are up to and including death, according to the main schools of Islamic jurisprudence.
"To be honest, I felt good when I heard he was dead; we got rid of him," said Raghib Naeemia, an iman at Jamia Naeemia. "It's very clear in the Holy Qur'an that if you say something nasty and harsh about the Holy Prophet, then you become a maloun (cursed) person. And we are supposed to round up those people and kill them very harshly"
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In Islam there is no compulsion in religion.
Of course you will have to pay the Jizya, sometimes we will protect you, unless of course you get uppity and answer back, in which case we will charge you with blasphemy, for which the punishment is death.
But mind you not a single person has been executed by the Govt, we are too humane for that, they have been executed by the lynch mobs, to save us the cost a long trial or the miscarriage of justice after acquittal. Sometimes of course we will just kill you. After all being an infidel you are going to hell anyway, so we are just doing Allah's job by sending you there earlier. And you are not human after all, having refused to testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. We have all testified that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, as Allah said so in our presence. We were witness to that declaration.
So sometimes we will rape and abduct your wives and daughters, and we will refuse you aid when there are floods, though much of that aid was sent by your Christian brethren in other lands. So think of it infidels. We will kill, rape, rob, kick you. You will have to grovel and scrape before us, but you are quite free to be infidels -no pressure.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by vwwvv: In Islam there is no compulsion in religion.
Of course you will have to pay the Jizya, sometimes we will protect you, unless of course you get uppity and answer back, in which case we will charge you with blasphemy, for which the punishment is death.
But mind you not a single person has been executed by the Govt, we are too humane for that, they have been executed by the lynch mobs, to save us the cost a long trial or the miscarriage of justice after acquittal. Sometimes of course we will just kill you. After all being an infidel you are going to hell anyway, so we are just doing Allah's job by sending you there earlier. And you are not human after all, having refused to testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. We have all testified that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, as Allah said so in our presence. We were witness to that declaration.
So sometimes we will rape and abduct your wives and daughters, and we will refuse you aid when there are floods, though much of that aid was sent by your Christian brethren in other lands. So think of it infidels. We will kill, rape, rob, kick you. You will have to grovel and scrape before us, but you are quite free to be infidels -no pressure.
posted
Regarding the Azhan, I live in earshot of 3 Mosques but there is one that has loudspeakers on about 4 roof buildings. Our street is only small. This particular Mosque has various callers and one screams and has the most aweful voice, he spoils this beautiful call. 99.99% of callers can make me feel goose bumps they are so nice. I also love to hear church bells ring, here or back in UK.
My problem is the 24 hour Quran guy close to us who leaves it playing while he's not there, at 3 or 4am that is ALL you can hear from every room in my flat, but not loud enough to hear the words but a constant mumbled sound that gets in your head. The building opposite him is all Christian as are quite a few others in ear shot. Many times I can't sleep because of this and have ended up sleeping in the living room with tv on, even with tv Quran on I can sleep as I can hear it properly and its MY CHOICE at 3am. I fell asleep to Jewel of the Nile movie the other night as it drowned out the constant mumbled humming.
I am Muslim but I dont think 24 hour quran that is in someone elses choice of recitor is on IMO.
Maybe I should take him over some of M. El Barak recitations instead of the drone he has now?
Concerning the UK stopping the church bells, that's ridiculous!
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Looks like the fundies are gonna take over soon...now all those of you women start wearing them veils and men grow beards..jizya time for the copts and flogging to those who disobey..let's start with the infidels. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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