posted
So, Mr Dzosser, you don't mind having a book (a man-made record) of Allah's words as an idol? How do you reconcile that with the text that marydot quoted (Surah 2:190-)!
You had better go and turn yourself in to marydot, so that she can administer the prescribed punishment for idolaters.
Quickly now, off you go!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: So, Mr Dzosser, you don't mind having a book (a man-made record) of Allah's words as an idol?
Why do you believe the Holy Qur'an to be a man-made record of Allah's words Mr. ourluxor ? Didn't Barnaby's bible mention a Muhammad pbuh before it was wiped out ?
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mr Dzosser, I'm sorry, but you have misunderstood what I was trying to get across, either that or I haven't explained myself properly (quite likely).
What I meant was that the book (paper, ink, glue etc.) is man-made. Of course you already know that I do not actually consider the Quran to be the Word of God, but I believe that you do. So my point was that although it contains what you believe to be the Word of Allah, it is still only a man-made (manufactured from paper, ink etc) book.
Therefore in giving this man-made book the reverence which Muslims seem to do, surely they have created an idol?
After all, no-one can destroy the Word of God, no matter if they burn the pages upon which it is recorded (as in your belief), or crucify and kill the man in whom God placed all his love and power (and whom the scriptures referred to as the Word of God, in Christianity).
So really, all the Quran burners are doing is burning a man-made book! Or, an idol. Depending on which way you look at it, I suppose. But, for sure, I cannot see another name which would fit! Can you help me out?
"Didn't Barnaby's bible mention a Muhammad pbuh before it was wiped out ?"
Sorry, but I've never heard of Barnaby's Bible, and, if it was wiped out; how would anyone know what it contained?
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: Sorry, but I've never heard of Barnaby's Bible, and, if it was wiped out; how would anyone know what it contained?
posted
First thing in Islam we don't have any icons and stuff like that to worship, so if you think we venerate the 'man-made book' as you put it as an idol, you're perfectly wrong.
Second thing is, I'm aware that you don't believe the Holy Qur'an to be the word of Allah since you're obviously not Muslim, so therefor you'll never understand what it means to Muslims that their holy book be burned by some fool in Florida who obviously doesn't believe the 'man- made book' to be the word of Allah the Almighty.
Thirdly I'm sure you never heard of Barnabas bible as it was also burned by the fanatics of your lot after it had clearly predicted the appearance of a prophet named Akhmed aka Muhammad pbuh.
You can Google that up, I must point out that the Catholic church has done a great job in making sure that this specific prophecy was never to see the light. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ever so often, Muslims mention the “Gospel of Barnabas”. What are the reasons that nearly everybody, who has studied it (including many Islamic scholars), believe that the is a forgery from the Middle ages? The below references should give you enough material to ponder if you don’t believe it.
The Muslim scholar Cyril Glassé states:
As regards the "Gospel of Barnabas" itself, there is no question that it is a medieval forgery. A complete Italian manuscript exists which appears to be a translation from a Spanish original (which exists in part), written to curry favor with Muslims of the time. It contains anachronisms which can date only from the Middle Ages and not before, and shows a garbled comprehension of Islamic doctrines, calling the Prophet "the Messiah", which Islam does not claim for him. Besides its farcical notion of sacred history, stylistically it is a mediocre parody of the Gospels, as the writings of Baha'Allah are of the Koran.
The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, Harper & Row, 1989, p. 64
It is quite baffling to see some Muslims believe in the Gospel of Barnabas although this particular Gospel was proven to be a forgery1 and to overtly contradict several teachings of the Islamic Scripture. This is why it is a matter of wonder that some Muslims insist on using the fraud named “the Gospel of Barnabas” in their theological and historical debates with Christians.
What else would one expect from another Islamophobe ? Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: First thing in Islam we don't have any icons and stuff like that to worship, so if you think we venerate the 'man-made book' as you put it as an idol, you're perfectly wrong.
But there are many people who do idolize the physical book, whether that's Islamic or not. For example, putting it on your dashboard because you believe that will "protect" you, inventing rules that you're not allowed to touch it when on your period etc. … all this is a form of idolatry imho.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Read here for God's sake.
From you link:
"This Gospel is considered by the majority of academics, including Christians and some Muslims (such as Abbas el-Akkad) to be late and pseudepigraphical;[1] however, some academics suggest that it may contain some remnants of an earlier apocryphal work edited to conform to Islam, perhaps Gnostic[2] or Ebionite[3] or Diatessaronic."
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: First thing in Islam we don't have any icons and stuff like that to worship, so if you think we venerate the 'man-made book' as you put it as an idol, you're perfectly wrong.
But there are many people who do idolize the physical book, whether that's Islamic or not. For example, putting it on your dashboard because you believe that will "protect" you, inventing rules that you're not allowed to touch it when on your period etc. … all this is a form of idolatry imho.
I respect your humble opinion Dalia. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well you can bet your bottom dollar this pastor won't be losing any sleep over it. This is pretty much the reaction he wanted to get out of it, I'm sure.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yup, that'd be about right. Bet he's rubbing his grubby little hands at all this.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
To blame the pastor for this, rather than the people committing the violence, is to start down the slippery slope of accepting the precedent that "provocation" is an excuse, and the justification to lash out in violence is in the eye of the beholder. That would lower the standard of acceptable human behavior to that of the schoolkid who in protest of being sent to the principal's office accuses a classmate: "But he made me do it!"
And it would excuse uncivilized conduct by implicitly denying the participants' free will to restrain themselves. It is an awful precedent to set, only rewarding bad behavior and inviting more of the same.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
No, no. I'm not. If they murdered him I wouldn't say that was justified, but to murder innocent bystanders who share nothing in common with him except coming from the same continent is crazy behaviour. But these are fundamentalists - they do crazy things.
What I'm saying is that the person they're peeved at (to put it mildly) will actually be revelling in what they're doing because, after all, this is exactly what he wanted to happen. If he didn't want it to happen, he wouldn't be piling on a whole heap more nonsense with putting their prophet on trial. No doubt this will involve some kind of effigy for added controversy.
Best thing to do with folks like him is turn your back or laugh in their face. If you laugh at someone you take away all their power. But hey ho, that's just my take on it.
Personally I believe in live and let live. If it gives someone peace to believe in a certain faith, who am I to try and upset their applecart? We are, or were til a couple of generations back anyway, pretty strongly wired to believe in something. From Shintoism to Christianity to Judaism to Islam, a lot of us need to know that there's something bigger guiding us. For me the idea that we're all on our own is too scary. So long as no one is in my face trying to impose their views on me, I couldn't care less what they believe.
Apart from scientology. Because darn it, it's just plain silly.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: No, no. I'm not. If they murdered him I wouldn't say that was justified, but to murder innocent bystanders who share nothing in common with him except coming from the same continent is crazy behaviour. But these are fundamentalists - they do crazy things.
What I'm saying is that the person they're peeved (to put it mildly) at will actually be revelling in what they're doing because, after all, this is exactly what he wanted to happen. If he didn't want it to happen, he wouldn't be piling on a whole heap more nonsense with putting their prophet on trial. No doubt this will involve some kind of effigy for added controversy.
Best thing to do with folks like him is turn your back or laugh in their face. If you laugh at someone you take away all their power. But hey ho, that's just my take on it.
exactly, the best thing to do with a bully is ignore them. The man sounds as far away from God and religion as the devil himself is to me and is as guilty for any deaths arising from this as those that do the killing. He needs to grow up or get help.
edit, just clicked the link, it's that Terry Jones tw@ again obviously can't preach as good as Billy Graham to get the crowds so turned to being a total plonker to get famous.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Even if you didn't believe in god and the hereafter or karma or what not - even if you thought you could do whatever you liked in this lifetime and it would never come back to bite you on the backside - why would you do what he's doing, knowing his saying these things, to his own selfish ends, are putting the lives, even just one life, in danger? What's his motivation? Publicity? Causing offence and upset?
He's just a sad and sorry excuse for a man.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
"Despite clear evidence that his actions have led to multiple murders and widespread violence in the Middle East, controversial Florida pastor Terry Jones has vowed to step up his provocative campaign against Islam.
The radical pastor said that he was considering putting Islamic prophet Mohammed 'on trial' for his next 'day of judgement' publicity stunt.
His last, in which he oversaw the burning of a copy of the Koran after a six-hour mock trial, has been directly responsible for a wave of violence that began last night and has left 30 people dead and more than 150 injured."
Needs men in white coats if you ask me.
Sorry to those Americans here, but there are some right weird feckers over there! Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I definitely see an effigy popping up in the near future. Well I would, if they let it get that far. Maybe he'll get another visit from the CIA before it all kicks off.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Terry Jones has vowed to step up his provocative campaign against Islam."
Provocative is to rutinely burn Bibles, violate the rights of your minorities, abuse them, even kill them, and then expect preferential treatment from non-Muslim countries.
Provocative is to demand respect and preferrential treatment without feeling any obligation to reciprogate.
Provocative is to demand privileges that are not avaiable to others.
"has been directly responsible for a wave of violence that began last night and has left 30 people dead and more than 150 injured"
Again you are taking for granted the premise that the local Muslims cannot control themselves in the face of "provocation."
Giving in to those low expectations will not make anyone safer, but will encourage more attacks based on flimsier excuses about being "offended." Remember the teddy bear incident?
"why would you do what he's doing, knowing his saying these things, to his own selfish ends, are putting the lives, even just one life, in danger? What's his motivation? Publicity? Causing offence and upset?"
Perhaps to expose the utter hypocricy of some Muslims?
If worldwide demonstrations, violence, and mayhem shows us what offends Muslims the most, then it is equally revealing to pay attention to the events that do not cause sufficient offense for Muslims to muster any noticeable protest at all:
Apostates Tortured, Killed: As we have noted, apostates of Islam may be threatened with death, even in the West. Recently, a Muslim man who converted to Christianity in Iran was arrested, tortured, and may yet be killed. Many other apostates have been killed, beaten, or threatened. Where’s the Muslim outrage over this travesty? Why are there no large, visible groups of Muslims fighting for the right of apostasy?
Religious Minorities Persecuted Throughout Muslim Lands: Christians, Jews, Bahais, Hindus, Buddhists and others are persecuted throughout the Muslim world. Why aren’t Muslims more offended by this than they are by a movie?
Women Treated as Second Class Citizens: In Pakistan, thousands of women in prison are rape victims. Honor killings, stoning of adulteresses, and FGM (female genital mutilation) plague the Muslim world. Saudi women can get into trouble for driving a car. Why no big demonstrations against this appalling treatment of women? Is this less of an offense than a cartoon?
Islam Linked to Militant Jihad by Muslims: Muslims are offended when non-Muslims discuss Islamic Jihad (which was one subject of the movie Fitna). However, there are Muslims who have linked militant Jihad to Islam, in modern times and throughout history, yet these Muslims who promote militant Jihad are never protested in a large way by other Muslims. A press release may be issued, but Muslims are not demonstrating in the streets over this. Why the double standard?
Mohammed’s Example Justifies Marital Sex with Nine-Year-Olds: According to a Saudi marriage official, a girl can be married at any age, even one year, so long as the marriage isn’t consummated until she is nine. This is based on authenticated Muslim Hadith (traditions) that Mohammed married Aisha, his favorite wife, when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine. How is it possible that Muslims aren’t sufficiently offended by the Saudi’s comment to protest his words?
Jews Marked for Death Worldwide: According to Palestinian cleric Wael Al-Zarad on Al-Aqsa TV, the Muslims’ blood vengeance against the Jews “will only subside with their [the Jews] annihilation.” This is not the only recent example of Muslims calling for a new Jewish holocaust. Why are Muslims not offended by these calls to genocide? Why is there no obvious sign of Muslim outrage over this?
OIC Moves to Quash Free Expression in the West: The OIC (Organization of the Islamic Conference) is making bold moves to stifle criticism of Islam through the UN. There is a plethora of other Muslim groups attempting to stifle free speech about Islam in the West. All Muslims who embrace free speech and free press must be terribly embarrassed about this. Where are the demonstrations?
Slavery Practiced by Muslims: Recently, UAE royals enslaved 17 women at a luxury hotel in Belgium. Slavery has never been entirely abolished in the Muslim world. Surely this would be enough to generate some Muslim outrage, but I have seen no mass demonstrations against those Muslims who continue this abhorrent practice.
It isn’t that no Muslims are offended by the above list. On the contrary, there are some examples of decent Muslims speaking out against abuses committed by Muslims, often in the name of Islam. To notice the lack of public demonstrations over the above list does not disparage the tremendous efforts of these brave individuals and small groups. However, the Muslim community as a whole does not seem sufficiently disturbed by the items on this list to protest them en masse. Why would some cartoons be more offensive than torturing and killing apostates? Why would a movie be more offensive than declarations of genocide? Where are the Muslims who would demonstrate in the streets for the right of apostasy, true equality for religious minorities in Muslim lands, equality for women, full renunciation of militant Jihad, marriage for adults only, respect for Jews, free expression, and a real abolition of slavery? Hello? Are you out there?
posted
Do you agree with what this guy is doing, vw? Would you do it?
Personally I'd have a lot more respect if he got his little butt over to Kandahar to do it and took the fallout from it for himself.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
"First thing in Islam we don't have any icons and stuff like that to worship, so if you think we venerate the 'man-made book' as you put it as an idol, you're perfectly wrong.
Second thing is, I'm aware that you don't believe the Holy Qur'an to be the word of Allah since you're obviously not Muslim, so therefor you'll never understand what it means to Muslims that their holy book be burned by some fool in Florida who obviously doesn't believe the 'man- made book' to be the word of Allah the Almighty."
I don't wish you any ill will Mr Dzosser, I'd just really appreciate it if you would try to understand what I am saying in my reply to you.
Do you believe that the Quran contains the "Word Of Allah"? I assume that you do, because you are Muslim.
Do you believe that the Quran on your desk, or in your bookcase, was manufactured by Allah? I assume that you do not believe this, as you are obviously a man of intelligence.
Do you believe that by destroying a book; you also destroy the meaning and the thoughts and good which it contains? I would suggest that you, as an intelligent Muslim man would dismiss this thought as stupidity.
Surely then, the Quran is a book like any other which comes off a printing press, except that it is produced solely to impart Allah's words to men. It is a tool! It is not the essence of Allah, neither is His Word depleted because of the destruction of the book. Surely you cannot disagree with these facts?
Why then, does the destruction of one book bring about the murder and injury of all these people?
"you'll never understand what it means to Muslims that their holy book be burned"
You're right, simply because I have no understanding of why people choose to make a book into an idol! Your statement above only goes to reinforce that which I wrote earlier, I can only promulgate one theory as to why these innocent folk were killed or injured, it is that those responsible for the killings were so incensed because they actually do regard the book itself to be worthy of "supreme adulation" which is the definition, in the Oxford English Dictionary, of the word "idol", an object of worship other than God: making them idolaters, as sure as eggs is eggs!
"Read here for God's sake."
I did. And, at the top of the page, it suggests that this supposed "scripture" was written in the 16th century, to include the prophecy you spoke of! Anyway, Wikipedia isn't the fount of all knowledge, I'm afraid. They might even let someone like me, or you, contribute something to it, Heaven forbid!!!!!
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: So, Mr Dzosser, you don't mind having a book (a man-made record) of Allah's words as an idol? How do you reconcile that with the text that marydot quoted (Surah 2:190-)!
You had better go and turn yourself in to marydot, so that she can administer the prescribed punishment for idolaters.
Quickly now, off you go!
It's so amusing reading your reply, you really dont have a clue what your talking about.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
No. I think they would be miffed whatever happens because violence, fear and hate breeds violence, fear and hate and this is just an excuse to take out some aggression in a place, which lets face it, must be/have been a living hell on earth for many. But why create the excuse in the first place? Why pick up something which actually means quite a lot to a few billion people, not just toss it on a bonfire for your own satisfaction if you're really so threatened by it, but announce on a tannoy in front of a dozen camera crews that this is what you want to do? Why not just mind your business and let Muslims mind theirs? Because he's a hateful guy and he wanted to provoke a reaction. That's why. I'd say not only did he not give a damn who would be harmed by the fall out, but judging by his latest announcement, he positively wanted folks to be harmed by the fallout and will be more than happy when more westerners are killed in Muslim nations. Because it proves his point that Muslims are bad to the narrowminded, whereas to the rest of us all it proves is that fundamentalists are screwed up. Well quelle surprise. But unfortunately, there are a lot of narrowminded folk about.
I respect you for saying you don't agree with his burning another religion's holy book, if this is true.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
If I lived in a Christian theocracy where priests opressed Christians and non-Christians, and did not allow people to express themselves freely, I would support the burning of the Bible, although I am Christian. I would not see it as an attack on Christianity, quite the contrary.
"Mocking is a very powerful way to convince those who are unwilling to think to do it."
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
But to a Christian the bible isn't directly the word of god. I think herein lies the difference. He may aswell have dropped his pants and pulled a moonie to the Muslim world. Problem is it's other people getting shot in the ar$e for it.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mr ourluxor Barnabas isn't another of Walt Disney's creations, he was an apostle of Jesus for what it counts.. Here's what I googled for you to read >>>
With the exception of St. Paul and certain of the Twelve, Barnabas appears to have been the most esteemed man of the first Christian generation. St. Luke, breaking his habit of reserve, speaks of him with affection, "for he was a good man, full of the Holy Ghost and of Faith". His title to glory comes not only from his kindliness of heart, his personal sanctity, and his missionary labours, but also from his readiness to lay aside his Jewish prejudices, in this anticipating certain of the Twelve; from his large-hearted welcome of the Gentiles, and from his early perception of Paul's worth, to which the Christian Church is indebted, in large part at least, for its great Apostle. His tenderness towards John Mark seems to have had its reward in the valuable services later rendered by him to the Church.
I hope you find it satisfying to your ego.
Now about burning holy books, if you believe the act to be nothing at all but pure nonesense, how would you feel if Muslims were to piss on the Bible ?? Now wouldn't that be a nasty thing to do ? Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Even if the Barnabas book isn't a fake, it makes no difference to anything!
My ego(?) isn't satisfied at all, sorry to say.
Abusing any book is a worthless excercise, it gains the abuser nothing! It may be seen by many as a "nasty thing to do", but in the scheme of things; it is of absolutely no importance whatsoever!
Can you now tell me that which I "don't have a clue.....about". How someone who holds a book in such high esteem that he is forced to kill men because someone else physically abuses it, is not setting that book up as an IDOL?
Posts: 430 | From: luxor | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
It is not about physical abuse, luxor. It is a sympolic abuse. and I am against killing a man who burns it. I am with showing the truth to this man and discussing stuff with him.
Quran is the word of God and must be respected.
Even if people do not belive it, they at least have to show respect to others' beliefs.
I will never ever take a bible and burn it because Islam forbids it. I will never take a book that represent a religion and burn it.
Those who burnt a Quran has no respect to others' beliefs.
Posts: 218 | From: Giza | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
We Muslims cherish the Qur'an for being the words of Allah, if you believe this feeling to be idolatrous then I can't help you with that..you are on the wrong path, you were born there and chose to be there, what can I tell you more ? Mr ourluxor.. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Quran is the word of God and must be respected."
I don't have to respect your belief, only your right to believe. I respect only what appeals to me.
"Should we, respect religious faith? Certainly not. But should we respect religious people? Yes-as long as they are not antisocial and do not aim to impose their religious views on others.
However, even if we respect them as good-living people, we cannot respect their beliefs. We have to excuse the medieval skeptics who pretended to respect Christianity rather than risk being burned at the stake, and likewise the apostate Muslims of today who pay lip-service to Islam in those Islamic countries where apostasy is still a capital offense; but we who live in a comparatively liberal society have no such excuse. In fact, it is all the more incumbent upon us to give our support to victims of religious oppression everywhere by coming out of the respectful closet and speaking our minds. Freedom of speech is more important than respect.
Skepticism is of paramount importance, because it is the gateway to knowledge; but unless the skeptical ideas are freely argued over, they cannot be assessed, nor can the ensuing knowledge spread through society.
Totalitarian extremists, of whatever religion or sect, invariably put faith first and freedom nowhere. Censorship, including insidious self-censorship, is then the order of the day, followed closely by violence. In a society where religious orthodoxy rules, there is no freedom of religion. Incidentally, the violence provoked by the Danish cartoons was deliberately stirred up by Islamic extremists publishing exaggerated versions of them in Muslim countries, up to four months after the originals were published."
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
My understanding is that Muslims believe that the Quran is the word of God the same as Christians believe that Jesus is the word of God. I have a question about this. How come it was Gabrial who told Muhammad(pbuh) what to put in the Quran and not God?
There is no doubt in my mind that it is disrespectful to burn the Quran. I myself don't even mark in my Quran because I understand that it is considered disrespectful to Muslims. Yet my Bible has been marked, underlined and highlighted. (I am a bit suprised that sleeping on it is not considered disrespectful.)
With that said, I still do not believe those killing have any justification. It would be the same as saying that a man is justified to rape because of what the woman wears.... What the pastor is doing is offensive but it is not murder.
Yes, We do have our share of crazys here, but lets keep things in perspective.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
*Bollocks to the lot of you who slaunder islam*
I dont deny the word of Allah or have to try and interperate what it means. I dont need to question islam or the quran.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Say what you like now, the board is all yours!!
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by marydot: "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
A true God can’t be vengeful. A loving God would send someone who would set an example of love and forgiveness.
Allah seem so helpless to deal with his enemies that he can’t harm them himself, so he relies on humans to go after his opponents and assassinate them. He fools you to kill for him because he is unable to do anything. If you stop believing in him he becomes completely helpless. Why? ...It's because he does not exist. He was an invention of Muhammad and was used by him as a tool of manipulation and domination.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by marydot: Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
*Bollocks to the lot of you who slaunder islam*
I dont deny the word of Allah or have to try and interperate what it means. I dont need to question islam or the quran.
This is like I give you a gift out of love but if you reject it I become so offended that I kill you and chop your body in pieces. Only a psychopath would do such thing. A real God would not do that sort of things to people.
Yet what Allah does to people is even worse. There is a limit to how much we humans can torture each other. At the end there is death and relief from torture. But according to Muhammad there is no end to how much Allah would torture people. He keeps renewing the skin just to burn them again. Can possibly the maker of this universe be so sadistic?
Suppose I am the dictator and above the law and no one can question my authority. What would you think of me if I went after those who reject my guidance, put them in jail, tortured them and kill them? Won’t you say I am insane? Even if my teachings were the best, do you think I still deserve respect if I can’t tolerate people disagreeing with me? God can’t be a psychopath.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Monkey: I definitely see an effigy popping up in the near future. Well I would, if they let it get that far. Maybe he'll get another visit from the CIA before it all kicks off.
Or he'll get caught committing some sort of obscure federal felony, and get put away in a federal prison for 10 years.
He'd probably wouldn't even put up much of a defense, because in a few months it would be safer in prison.
Either that or some other Floridian freak will off him in a walmart.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: It is not about physical abuse, luxor. It is a sympolic abuse. and I am against killing a man who burns it. I am with showing the truth to this man and discussing stuff with him.
Quran is the word of God and must be respected.
Even if people do not belive it, they at least have to show respect to others' beliefs.
I will never ever take a bible and burn it because Islam forbids it. I will never take a book that represent a religion and burn it.
Those who burnt a Quran has no respect to others' beliefs.
In this bolded comment you are completely correct.
I have yet to see a Muslim whack job burn a Bible either.
I think thats something many westerners forget, Muslims don't desecrate the Bible no matter how low of a regard they hold for the Bible's history.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
Instead of making bold statements, maybe you should just google Muslims burning the Bible and you may find that Muslims are not the protectors of the Holy Book of Christians Read this:
Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses After defeating their rivals in Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement, Muslim extremists are focusing their attacks on Christians in Gaza City. Christians in Gaza City have issued an appeal to the international community and a plea for protection against the increased attacks by Muslim extremists.
Father Manuel Musallem, head of Gaza's Latin church, told the AP that Muslims have ransacked, burned and looted a school and convent that are part of the Gaza Strip's small Romany Catholic community. He told the AP that crosses were broken, damage was done to a statue of Jesus, and at the Rosary Sister School and nearby convent, prayer books were burned.
Gunmen used the roof of the school during the fighting, and the convent was "desecrated," Mussalem told the AP.
"Nothing happens by mistake these days," he said.
Father Musalam additionally told The Jerusalem Post that the Muslim gunmen used rocket-propeled grenades (RPGs) to blow through the doors of the church and school, before burning Bibles and destroying every cross they could get their hands on.
Catholic Online reports that the heads of Christian churches in the Holy Land have urged both sides to put aside their weapons, noting that the infighting diverted international attention from the national goal of Palestinian independence.
"This domestic fighting where brother draws his weapon against brother is detrimental to all the aspirations of achieving security and stability for the Palestinian people," they said. "In the name of the one and only God as well as in the name of each devastated Palestinian, many of whom are still dying, we urge our brothers in the Fatah and Hamas movements to listen to the voice of reason, truth and wisdom."
Desecration at the church of St. Paul in the village ‘Chak 77-RB’, ‘Lohekay’, about 30 kilometers from Faisalabad: on December 17, suspects burned a bible and other sacred texts, leaving a letter threatening Christians that they will "burn in the fire of hell" if they do not convert to Islam.
Pervez Masih tells AsiaNews that on that day, he and others were whitewashing and decorating the little church for Christmas. They stopped at noon for lunch, leaving the church open. When they returned, they found the bible and other sacred texts reduced to ashes, and a handwritten letter telling them to convert to Islam if they wanted to "live in peace" and avoid hell. In Pakistan, there is significant controversy over the law on blasphemy, condemning even to death those who offend the sacred book of Islam, the Qur'an. But nothing is done against blasphemous acts toward the books of other religions.
Fr. Yagoob Yousaf arrived in the village that same evening, having been told about the sacrilege. He celebrated Mass in the church (in the photo), and in the homily, he condemned the sacrilege and the threats, and told the faithful to remain calm and peaceful and not to be afraid, because the police have promised the highest vigilance. He said that Christ preached love and peace, and the government would see to guaranteeing security for the Christians for the Holy Nativity. In recent years, at Christmas, there have been attacks against Catholic and Protestant churches. Often the Christmas celebrations have taken place under police protection.
He observes that "this is a high holy season for all Christians and they are preparing themselves for Christmas but such type of incidents are creating fear and is a move to disturb Christians in the season of Advent."
Most of the people in the village are Muslim, and there are between 50 and 70 Christian families. The church is used by Catholics and Protestants, without conflict. When they became aware of the sacrilege, many Muslims went to the church together with the Christians. Now the police are investigating the "suspects" for the crime of blasphemy http://www.speroforum.com/a/17283/Muslims-burn-Bible-in-Pakistan
Thats all I will post. It's really disturbing that Muslim use the excuse of Quran burning to kill people and do all kinds of Evil. The best way to show your Faith as superior, Is to let Love extend to those who use and abuse you...Jesus said to do good to those who despitefully use you and Persecute you.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
Once again Islamic supremacists murder innocent people in their rage over something that someone else may have done, that didn't harm them in any case.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: How come it was Gabrial who told Muhammad(pbuh) what to put in the Quran and not God?
Gabriel could be a metaphor for the process of revelation itself, or for communication between God and Muhammad.
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
And if it was 'God' who'd done the dictation you'd ask why not let one of the angels take care of that, right ?? Oro I think 'God' created Gabriel and the other angels to work and not stick around doing nothing. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
"I have yet to see a Muslim whack job burn a Bible either."
Churches are set ablaze, and Bibles are desecrated all the time in countries like Pakistan. No outrage there. What irks people like Pastor Jones is the fact that Muslims expect respect and preferrential treatment without feeling any obligation to reciprocate.
"“It is religious terrorism to set our church (in Mian Channu) ablaze during the period when we (Christians) fast. It is an attack on our religion and belief. We feel unsafe and insecure,” said Chaudhry Naveed Amer Jeeva, MPA and the coordinator of All Pakistan Minorities Alliance, South Punjab.
He said that the present regime had failed to protect churches, missionary properties and religious leaders. He said that churches had been burnt down in Sargodha and Sukkur, more than 300 copies of holy Bible were set ablaze in Sangla Hill and the cross desecrated and Christians killed in terrorist activities." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1610920/posts
"I think thats something many westerners forget, Muslims don't desecrate the Bible no matter how low of a regard they hold for the Bible's history."
What many apologists forget, is that in America, anyone who owns a book or more, that they want to burn or otherwise destroy, or recycle, or give away, or whatever, as long as it is not made into a harmful weapon, has the free speech right to do with it as they please, including running it over with a roller! But in America, no one has the right to be a destructive psycho, raging harm or destruction to all, or anyone, else.
Posts: 1365 | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic