posted
Alright, I don't know what's all the fuss about the Mohammed cartoons.
Last night I've seen a documentary on German TV (the same broadcaster I used to work before ) about double standards of the Muslim believers.
They showed f.e. that the Lebanese Al-Manar channel shows children shows where little kids get teached that Jews are "monkeys and pigs".
The also showed a scene of an Saudia Arabian children channel where a three-year-old girl (!) stated she does not like the jews because they are that above mentioned. And the announcer praised that little girl over and over again.
An Iranian TV channel sends cartoons out, it's not about animals and fairytales - no not at all - kids are staring at one scene at a man who jumps of a hill onto a Jewish truck, blows himself up and screams "God is great"!
Also Arabic newspapers printing hateful cartoons about Jewish people.
So, what's the difference?
Seriously, this is 100% double standard in my opinion.
Of course we can discuss throughly if its right or wrong to draw and publish religious cartoons. But at the same time we need to be aware of the fact that cartoons always have a meaning and they are intended to provoke, to make you think.
What I am saying is if you give out you also must be able to take in.
I am really horrified about the latest developments, the outbreak of the Muslim communities in many parts of the world, the destruction of embassies and other foreign installations. The Taliban called "for the holy war" against the West in Afghanistan. It is frightening, seriously I have my doubts. All these pictures you seen on the TV screen don't draw a friendly and peaceful picture of Muslims in general. It is all about peace (even in the Koran stated), there must be other ways to discuss, to communicate, to inform others about your feelings...... not with vandalism. I am deeply saddened.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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One thing I have heard is that many of the Muslims who are protesting violently are ones that live under dictatorial regimes. They don't understand the concept of a separation of government from the media from the business sector. So they only see this as being done by a particular government and think that government can order the papers to stop publishing these things or at least punish the papers for doing so.
I am not condoning the violence in any manner, in fact I abhor it. I just think it has more to do with people living under oppressive regimes than it does any particular religion.
I do find it quite interesting that you don't see any Muslims in the US protesting violently. In fact, Islamic organizations here are coming out publicly against the violence. It's one case where our political correctness has helped, I think. Only one US paper that I know of decided to reprint those cartoons. I hope Muslims around the world are cognizant of this fact.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I do not see it as a double standard at all. Christians are not the group sponsoring and advocating terror. They are not calling for Jihad, training suicide bombers and the rest of it. Christians recieve their share of criticism both in the United States and in Europe. What many here are trying to avoid is accepting the obvious fact that a substantial number of Muslims support the terror movement either in terms of philosophy or passive sympathy. Saying we need more tolerance and understanding is not an acceptable responce to Islamo-Facism.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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there is no anti semitism law Tigerman. You are bending over backwards to support these radicals and yet you claim to be a moderate. If you were truly a moderate you would support free speech.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerman: Snoozin ..are you asking me this question? ... I think you know the law very well after all you are a lawyer ...
I don't know anything about it...that's why I am asking. Here in the US? In Denmark? What is it?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerman: All over the world ...the anti-sematism law ..I'm sure you can find any info you want about it ... I suggest we stop dancing around the bush ...
Fine. I'll find it myself. I was *sincerely* asking you Tiger because I've never heard of such a thing.....
By your tone it seems you think I was being sarcastic or something. I've got to say I'm a bit hurt by your reaction. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Tigerman, We are not the ones creating hate between religions, Muslims are doing that all over the world. Publishing the cartoons was not an abuse of free speech, it was the exercise of free speech. Expect to see more of it in the future.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
The Global Anti-Semitism Law of 2004 is an American law. It carries no weight in other countries. The purpose of the law is to monitor anti-semitic acts globally and include the findings in extant federal reports, such as one on International Religious Freedom and one on Country Reports on Human Rights Practices.It also establishes an office to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism around the globe.
quote:Originally posted by TheWesternDebt2Islam aka Ki$$ aka K:
it was nice of you to distinguish between al-manar channel & some saudi channel and islam...as those channel do not solely represent islam...
These mentioned channels are viewed my millions of Muslim every day, smart enough already small children get indoctrinated with hateful and racistic ideas.
Watching these people destroying Western installations, burning flags, screaming ...... I felt like we are back hundreds of years ago. Is this civilised?????
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
well thats right and what amazes me is that we still have people who want to make excuses for them.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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"Tigerman, We are not the ones creating hate between religions, Muslims are doing that all over the world. Publishing the cartoons was not an abuse of free speech, it was the exercise of free speech. Expect to see more of it in the future."
i think the danish newspaper should just be honest and have the balls to say that they actually believe that islam is a threat to danish society instead of using the pretext of free speech to get their point across. i say this because now, it came to light that they have refused in the past to publish illustrations about jesus "on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny". this in my opinion undermines their "free speech" argument and makes it clearly an issue of one particular religion.
Posts: 299 | From: Dubai | Registered: Jan 2006
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"Seriously, this is 100% double standard in my opinion."
As far as I am concerned, most islamic countries are third world countries mixing middle age standards with modern ones.
but i'll be honest with you here. given the anti-semitic history in the christian west, it really heartens me to see many christians in the west use anti-semitism in the muslim world to point out to the hypocrisy of the muslim reaction to the cartoons.
but the fact is drawing that analogy in this context is in itself hypocritical. although it moderated a bit after camp david and the oslo accords, anti-semitism has been going on in the muslim world for as far as i remember. no one really cared about it in the west until very very recently. only after radical muslims, many of them by the way were hosted in the west while preaching against muslim moderates who are trying to modernize the muslim world (not to mention their anti-semitic rhetoric), launched terrorist attacks against westerners, we now hear all of this outrage about islamic anti-semitism.
your outrage now has nothing to do with anti-semitism and everything to do with your own interest in my opinion.
Posts: 299 | From: Dubai | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerman: verses a couple of kids who think Jews are pigs in general ..I'm not defending that either ...
No, but you're downplaying it. It's not just a few kids "who think Jews are pigs"; Anti-Semitism (and racism, for that matter) is widespread and socially acceptable in the Middle East.
I found the rest to be reasonable if not accurate depiction of reality and not in any way antisemitic.
Posts: 637 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
There are some truly demented ideas floating around the mideast street and Automatic managed to come out of the gay bar long enough to show us one of them. The first is the idea that corrupt Jewish politicans are controling the world and pulling strings to get the united states to do their bidding. The second is the idea that somehow Israel was behind 9/11. When you hear these things it becomes clear why the middle east is still mired in poverty. Further, the old worn out facist argument that the holocaust never happened and that somehow those camps we all saw, in person and on film, were created by evil Jewish leaders to mislead the world. Koolaide sales in the middle east have to be through the roof.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
As the whole world knows in the second war Europe has succeeded to make America enter in that war. I heard a conspiracy theory who said that America want to do the same thing with Europe now. That journalist it has paid to do the picture for create this disorder between Europe and Arab world because Iran and Syria are next after Iraq on the American list. What do you think...can be true? And please....as I said...I heard this...is not my theory!!!! Posts: 1414 | From: far away | Registered: Sep 2004
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Karla, Well, I am sure we would like to have European help and support in the middle east, we need it. The whole region has turned into a giant sink hole. It would not be so bad if they did not control half of the world's oil supply. To let that oil fall into the hands of Muslim radicals would be a total disaster for the world. That is why those who oppose the Iraq war are dead wrong. There is no conspiracy but we could use your help. If we do not get it the United states and UK will just have to fight it out alone. Yes, I agree, Iran and Syria have to be next. They are both out of control.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: Further, the old worn out facist argument that the holocaust never happened and that somehow those camps we all saw, in person and on film, were created by evil Jewish leaders to mislead the world.
Obviously we're no longer talking about cartoons cause I didn't see any of them implying that.
Posts: 637 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Drinking a sin? Now I understand what is wrong with these people !!!! they need a drink. If these Muslims would follow my advice to the letter their entire outlook on life would change.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: It would not be so bad if they did not control half of the world's oil supply. To let that oil fall into the hands of Muslim radicals would be a total disaster for the world. That is why those who oppose the Iraq war are dead wrong.
LOL! The world has to stop depending on oil; there are countless other possibilities available but not enough political pressure to pursue them ...
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
dalia, I agree with you on that but its a few years away . Some of the auto companies may force the issue. We also need to build numerous nuclear power plants, especially in california.
In the meantime we have to force stability in the middle east. If we did not a world depression would not be out of the question. It might also result in a much bigger war down the line.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
drinking may be haram according to the Quran but when in Europe or USA, many Muslims (ok some) partake of its benefits. It becomes hypocracy1
WHy don't Muslims who are expressing their anger at the cartoons show their disgust for the brethren in Iraq and the killing of women and chirren!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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"drinking may be haram according to the Quran but when in Europe or USA, many Muslims (ok some) partake of its benefits. It becomes hypocracy!"
sorry dude, but this is really an idiotic statement. alcohol is legally available in all muslim countries except Saudi and Kuwait (but abundantly available in the black market, like drugs in the west). needless to say, many muslims drink in their home countries, and there are several drinks locally made.
in the same token, getting intoxicated is a sin for christians, and therefore all christians who get intoxicated are hypocrites.
Posts: 299 | From: Dubai | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Gulfy: in the same token, getting intoxicated is a sin for christians, and therefore all christians who get intoxicated are hypocrites.
Is it? I don't know any Christian denomination that avoids alcohol, really, other than Southern Baptists. I've just never heard of this before..
For the record, I was just stating drinking alcohol was haram. I was not making any personal judgment about those who drink. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
"I don't know any Christian denomination that avoids alcohol"
drinking alcohol does not equal getting intoxicated. what i meant here is to get drunk are tipsy. as far as I know, you can drink alcohol in christianity, but you are not suppose to get drunk/tipsy.
now tell me how many christians in the west drink because alcohol tastes good!!! oh, i love those yagamister shots. LOL
Posts: 299 | From: Dubai | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: We also need to build numerous nuclear power plants, especially in california.
I disagree. I think we should not build new nuclear power plants at all and try to shut off as many existing ones as possible.
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
We have no choice Dalia, we need power and we are not going to get it from windmills and duck paddles. All of these left wing idealist ideas are nice but people have to live, all 300 million of us and that requires power.
You are aware that our new space ships that are now being built will have nuclear powered engines. This is the power of the future and is the only realistic way to meet our needs. In the meantime, we need 20 million barrels of oil a day in America alone.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Sweden is to take the biggest energy step of any advanced Western economy by trying to wean itself off oil completely within 15 years - without building a new generation of nuclear power stations.
quote:Originally posted by Gulfy: in the same token, getting intoxicated is a sin for christians, and therefore all christians who get intoxicated are hypocrites.
Is it? I don't know any Christian denomination that avoids alcohol, really, other than Southern Baptists. I've just never heard of this before..
For the record, I was just stating drinking alcohol was haram. I was not making any personal judgment about those who drink.
Don't the Quakers avoid alcohol as well?
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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To all of those so eager to defend the prophet's honor by attacking Denmark, well, hold your horses. You won. Ok?
I called the whole thing retarded from the begining, and I warned of the consequences of the "continued outrage", that culminated in attacks against churches in Iraq the other day. Sensing that they are dealing with crazy and violent retards, people inside of denmark started calling for someone, anyone, to give an apology to the muslim people , who apprently are so sensitive that they can not be offended without bombing something.
The Danish PM couldn't give such an apology, because, and I quote :"The Danish government cannot apologize on behalf of a Danish newspaper. It does not work like that ... and we have explained that to the Arab countries. Independent media are not edited by the government."
This of course came as a great shock to the people calling for the apology, because, in our countries, our leader can order the public rape and execution of journalists over anything that he may not like. The concept of an autonomous and free press that is not regulated or controlled by the government is so strange and incomprehensible to our people that they immedietly thought that the man was lying to them or making excuses to cover up for his role in this conspiracy to belittle and attack the Prophet. It became clearly apparent that someone else needed to apologize, and indeed, many apologies were made.
First there was the apology posted by the Norwegian government to make sure that no one gets mad at them too. Then there was the apology that was sent by the editor of the newspaper to the people of Saudi arabia over the cartoons, then there was the open letter explanation/apology that was published in the newspaper, then there was the apology made by that same editor in public for offending muslims, and finally there was an official letter of apology by that newspaper , again, that was sent to the Jordanian news agency Petra, where the guy apologizes again.
Is that enough to calm you people down?
Well, hopefully it is for the majority of you, because it's apparently not enough for the Iraqi terrorist group the Mujahedeen army. They just issued a statement saying that the apology or the boycott are not enough for the insult made against the prophet, and actually called for terrorist attacks against danish and norwegian targets to avenge his honor.
"Boycotting cheese and dairy products alone is a flimsy stance that fits a weak nation that cannot defend its prophet ... They started this and they have to shoulder the responsibilities," said the statement attributed to the Mujahideen Army. It called on its fighters to "hit whatever targets possible belonging to these two countries and other (countries) that follow their steps."
Great. Fantastic. Hope all y'all "defenders of the faith" are FUCKIN happy. And don't tell me that you didn't see that one coming. This is what always freakin happens. This is what happens when you create outrage, and use big words that you barely understand like "defending our prophets honor". And now you have proven to the whole world what the people who attack you have always said : that you are just a little crazy, that you resort to violence the moment anything or anyone offends you, that you can not handle criticisms without issuing death threats. Thanks to your own actions and voiced sentiments we appear to be uncivilized, short-fused, intolerant and bloodthirsty. And the sad thing is, you can't claim it's the media distoring our image anymore. All that they would need to disprove that excuse now is to issue a cartoon, and the next thing you know you will go unhinged again. You know why? Beause YOU ARE FUCKIN RETARDED!
posted
Morgan...they can attack all they want but as usual, they will lose, they always lose. They have been fighting a futile war against Israel for 60 years and the more they fight, the more they lose. Free speech is far to deeply ingrained in Europe for these retards to have any impact.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: We have no choice Dalia, we need power and we are not going to get it from windmills and duck paddles. All of these left wing idealist ideas are nice but people have to live, all 300 million of us and that requires power.
Who is talking about windmills and duck paddles? Alternative energies are far more advanced than that, so no need to try depicting people who promote them as dreamy idealists who are far removed from reality with your rhetorics.
Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2002
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I see ... YOU are giving me the silent treatment ..I wonder WHY ..? WHERE IS THE UNDERSTANDING SIDE ..I hope it is not gone with the wind .. Cuz I said the drawing of these idiots are equal to drawing a swastica on the ten commandents ....
Tiger, I just saw this, and I know you are gone, but in the off chance you see this post -- I'm afraid I don't understand what you are talking about. I'm not giving you the silent treatment and this post was for Horemheb's insatiable quest for oil. That's all. Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
The insatiable appetite for oil is one shared by most of the world. It is not possible to live in isolation, economically. The ripples of one market shake up affect the rest of the world. Just the amount of oil needed for petro-chemicals, like fertilizers, and most of the world's plastic production alone illusrates how much oil has been integrated into the earth's business. In the US, the train systems are not extensive thus requiring us to truck the great majority of products all over the country. On gas. We certainly existed before the discovery of oil as a fuel source, which was NOT long ago, and we will probably have to again. The question becomes how to ease that transition. I wonder what all these Arab states will do for money when their oil dries up in 50 years. At least the US has too much water.
How'd you guys get talking about energy? lol.
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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the fact that the queen of Denmark says something racist about Islam and followed by four months propaganda against the highist Islamic figure... [/QB]
STOP STOP this is absolutly NOT correct. I'm danish in blood and soul. Our Queen did NEVER - I repit NEVER say anything racist about Islam. She will not take side in any kind of discussion about politics or religion. There is actually a law that forbid her to do so. She is very tolerant - like most danes. She has not in any kind of way been involved is this Cartoon ****! So why should she appoligize to anyone?????? There has also not been any propaganda against muslims - they do that fine fore themselves. Most of them (not all)that comes here and don't want to learn our language, wants our benefits, their kids go to our schools and kindergartens and therefore we have to change the mealprogram - because they don't want to eat our pigs. We have to build special rooms fore them at work inwhere they can say their daily prayers, schools has to make speciel programs fore them because they will not attend religion, gymnastics or sex and socity lessons. Meanwhile the crimal % of young muslim men are more than 15 %................... They jell Whore at danish girls, gangrape danish girls ,walk around with knifes hidden, have no respect fore older danish people, And you expect us to applaus them. Wellbehavied, integrated and gratefull muslims are welcomed - the rest **** OF. What would we get If me and my family desided to go to Arab countries? Would they pay fore a house, my kids school and would they serve them bacon?????????????????????????????????
Posts: 1215 | From: Nowhere | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
US: Cartoons not the problem By The Copenhagen Post Criticism of Denmark over the Mohammed cartoons is unfair, says a senior US diplomat
Cartoons or no cartoons, they are no longer the problem, the US assistant secretary of state for European affairs, Daniel Fried stated Tuesday during a brief visit to Copenhagen. 'Jyllands-Posten has apologised and therefore the case is closed. The cartoons are no longer the real problem,' Fried said at a press conference at the American Embassy in Copenhagen.
Fried visited Copenhagen in order to show American support for Denmark. He met with representatives from the Foreign Ministry and the Prime Minister's Office as part of a trip that will also take him to Brussels and Berlin, where he will urge multi-level, political support for Denmark.
Fried admitted that the cartoons were insulting but underscored several times that Denmark did not deserve the treatment that it had received.
He recognised that demonstrations were a legitimate form of protest. Violence, however, could not be accepted under any circumstance.
Free and democratic societies, Fried said, are better equipped to handle different values such as tolerance, freedom, and respect for religion.
'This position is not shared by everyone. For example, it is not shared by Iran and Syria,' Fried said.
Posts: 1223 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2005
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) about double standards of the Muslim believers.
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In fact, Islamic organizations here are coming out publicly against the violence. It's one case where our political correctness has helped, I think. Only one US paper that I know of decided to reprint those cartoons. I hope Muslims around the world are cognizant of this fact.
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