posted
ok, I'm a little late on reading my news, but I just saw this:
An Israeli lawyer, Ervin Shahar, says he has asked Germany to charge Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with denying the Holocaust.
Wait just a moment. Weren't these the same people that insisted Ariel Sharon should be immune from prosecution for the Sabra and Shatilla massacres because he was a head of state?
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Wait just a moment. Weren't these the same people that insisted Ariel Sharon should be immune from prosecution for the Sabra and Shatilla massacres because he was a head of state?
Not only that, but the basis upon which zionism is based is to wipe Phalestine off the earth..
You all can practice freedom of speech as long as you only say what we approve. ( an American think-tank )
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posted
oh definitely that is true! They wont come and arrest you (so its called freedom) but they do 'other' things to convince you to think differently.
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posted
This is a dreary subject. How a person could live in the 21st century and be so ignorant as to deny the holocaust is beyond me. You have to wonder how they are able to get up in the morning and put their clothes on. That said, nobody should be arrested for a point of view regardless of what is is. people are arrested for actions, not thoughts.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Actually 'denying the holocaust' is an exaggeration, usually what is most often in question is the actual numbers of dead.
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posted
ROFL Well it definitely did happen, it's the number of people who died that is allegedly exaggerated.
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quote:Originally posted by needsomeone: What Holocaust!
Do you still believe in Santa ?
Even if you don't believe in Santa...sometimes you have to say that exist...when the children are around ..is better to not disappoint a child till he will grow up Posts: 1414 | From: far away | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
what we have karla is a bunch of mental dim wits you hate Jews and want to deny the Holocaust for their own political reasons. They know the truth but the truth does not serve these political ends. The really absurd part is that there really are no reasonable political ends. Israel has won the land and the issue is ended.
-------------------- God Bless President Bush Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Horemheb you're wrong I do not hate anyone...and sincerely I don't care about Jews or their problems because I'm sure that they don't care about Romanian or our problems. Your affirmation is baseless!
Posts: 1414 | From: far away | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: what we have karla is a bunch of mental dim wits you hate Jews and want to deny the Holocaust for their own political reasons. They know the truth but the truth does not serve these political ends. The really absurd part is that there really are no reasonable political ends. Israel has won the land and the issue is ended.
derailing, assumption, accusation and insult........Typical Asshole
posted
needsomeone. Thats the problem...to have a debate there has to be something to debate.
1. That there was a Holocaust is not debatable, its an established fact agreed to by 100% of European historians, regardless of their political views. Only a nut or a terrorist was argue the point.
2. Palestine is a settled matter. Israel won the land in four wars....period. It will not be returned under any set of circumstances. If for no other reason the United States would never allow that.
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Horemheb may I ask you a question?! Are you a Jew? My question has no substratum...just for record.
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No, I am a Methodist Karla but you have to be realistic about these issues. The Muslims in the middle east have gone brain dead over this Palestinian issue.
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: No, I am a Methodist Karla but you have to be realistic about these issues. The Muslims in the middle east have gone brain dead over this Palestinian issue.
Methodist is nationality now...or what? I didn't ask what is your faith! You want see just one face of coin...if one day I would come in your house and throw you out from the house you will do nothing??? And don't come with argue that that land was promise by God for Jews!!! I already know that you say all the time "Israel won the land" but still is war, isn't it? After my knowledge you can say that it's over when the war is finished. I thing that solution should be found in the peaceful way but...unfortunately...both sides are stubborn. Maybe I'm not so good on politic issue but always I will vote for peace, understanding and agreement.
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posted
Karla, I'm not saying that what happened in Palestine is right or wrong. It may well be that the people of Palestine got a raw deal, I'll agree that they have a point of view. All I am saying is that the war is over and they lost. Why fight when there is NO HOPE of winning. In America we took land from the Indians. They would probably love to get it back but they have NO HOPE of doing that. Thats why the Indians stopped fighting....
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your ignorance is overwhelming. Israel does not exist today because it won a war, it is because the UN divided Palestine to an Arab and Jewish states in late 1947. War broke out after that. So in essence, Israel came into existence before any wars between Arabs and Jews. Without that recognition, no matter how many wars Israel wins, it will be an illegitimate state. The war maybe over, but the conflict is still ongoing, and there will be no settlement until all parties agree on a resolution.
israel is here to stay, and will be a positive factor in the middle east in due time imo.
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posted
The conflict is ongoing in your demented terrorist brain Gulfy. You can fight alkl you want, the issue is any possiblity of winning. Go back and reread the conversation I had with karla and see if you can get it straight.
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: The conflict is ongoing in your demented terrorist brain Gulfy. You can fight alkl you want, the issue is any possiblity of winning. Go back and reread the conversation I had with karla and see if you can get it straight.
ouch, a little truth in Gulfys reply that rubbed you the wrong way?
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Karla, Horemheb meant WHO not YOU. you do speak great english babe but its broken enough, i think, for you to have mistaken Hores typeo for an accusation..... go back and re-read.
also..... forgive my ignorance Karla but you asked Horemheb if he was a jew. then you said "Methodist is a nationality now, i didnt ask what is your faith"? HUH? judaism is a faith. there is no such place as Jewland!!!!
but what a great tourism idea for isreal!!!!
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Thanks Perfect Charm And we have a word for this "you are candy above the funeral meal" ...babe!
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We ( Arabs ) have lost three wars and then we have won the fourth one on 6 of october 1973 And without the help of USA Israel would be nothing. It would not exist. Who told you that we are like Indians . Remimber Saladin (the sultan of muslems who took Palestine back from the crusaders. Palestine is coming back !!! this day will come
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no really, im interested. today, next year..... in another 2000 years...... when the tectonic shift has pushed you into the south pacific? assuming iran doesnt have her day first of course. you might be right???!!!
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midomavi, You lost the 1973 war as well, badly. If you remeber the Israeli army was across the Red sea with a straight shot to Cairo. Only at the insistence of president Nixon did they halt. You are like the Indians in the sense that you have been displaced out of land you do not have the ability and resources to retake. Saladin lived a thousand years ago and that time period cannot return.
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It is 60 years since the full horror of the Nazi Holocaust began to emerge with the liberation of Bergen Belsen concentration camp in Germany.
Belsen was the first death camp entered by the Western allies and first-hand accounts of mass graves, piles of corpses and emaciated, diseased survivors spread quickly around the world. The BBC's Richard Dimbleby described dead and dying people over an acre of ground, while US radio correspondent Patrick Gordon Walker described the camp as a "hellhole", adding that this was not propaganda but the "plain and simple truth".
But, in the 21st Century, as these events recede into history and the number of Holocaust survivors dwindles, there are still people who deny these crimes happened - and it is a tendency that some experts say is growing.
"Holocaust revisionism is spreading, and not only among neo-Nazis," Kate Taylor, of the anti-fascist publication Searchlight, told the BBC News website.
"As survivors are increasingly dying out it is much easier to hijack history for whatever cause or purpose."
The internet has played a role in this.
While publications peddling Holocaust denial were previously confined to the race-hate paraphernalia of extremist groups, the same material is now readily available on the web.
One of the earliest and most infamous publications denying the Holocaust was a 32-page pseudo-academic booklet entitled Did Six Million Really Die?, first printed in England in 1974.
It dismisses concentration camps as "mythology", rejects the Diary of Anne Frank as a hoax and claims Jews were not exterminated but rather emigrated from Nazi Germany with the help of a benevolent government.
The booklet was widely banned but has resurfaced in electronic form on the internet.
Kay Andrews, of the UK Holocaust Educational Trust, says Holocaust denial sites, subtly questioning the facts, can mislead the young people her group is trying to teach.
"With the internet, you've got to be fairly well-educated to see through what revisionist websites are trying to do," she says.
"I think as soon as you look at them closely you can work it out, but part of the problem that we find is teachers will send pupils off to do internet research and not guide them to specific sites. "So as a result kids put the Holocaust into a search engine, which comes up with all of this stuff, and at 14-years-old they are not mature enough to make that distinction between a denialist site and a more legitimate site."
Denial doomed?
However, the eminent British historian Sir Martin Gilbert believes the tireless gathering of facts about the Holocaust will ultimately consign the deniers to history.
"I don't think Holocaust denial is really a problem because of the incredible state of survivor memoirs," he told the BBC News website.
"The number of deniers and the amount of denial literature is miniscule compared with the serious literature, not only the memoirs but the history books, the specialist books, and books which cater for every age group on the Holocaust.
"There is a tremendous range of stuff and some of it is written for young people and teenagers - in that sense the Holocaust deniers have totally lost out."
Over a period of many years, Jerusalem's Yad Vashem museum has documented the lives of more than three million Holocaust victims.
More recently, Steven Spielberg's Survivors of the Shoah [Holocaust] Visual History Foundation (VHF) has recorded more than 50,000 videotaped interviews with Holocaust survivors and witnesses.
Turning point
But VHF president Doug Greenberg is less confident about the future than Martin Gilbert.
On the positive side, he notes that in 2000 a British judge rejected a libel case brought by a notorious British revisionist, David Irving, against US historian Deborah Lipstadt who had called him one of the "most dangerous spokespersons for Holocaust denial".
"The most important thing that's happened in terms of Holocaust denial is the David Irving trial," Mr Greenberg told the BBC News website.
"Because a British court of law said in effect Holocaust denial is not a valid way to look at the past."
On the other hand, he says, we just cannot tell how far history will be forgotten in years to come.
"In 50 years from now, not only will there be no survivors alive, there won't be anybody alive who even knew a survivor, and that is where the real danger lies," he said.
The fear that deniers could gain the upper hand led an SS camp guard, Oskar Groening, to break a lifetime of silence earlier this year in a BBC documentary, Auschwitz: The Nazis and the Final Solution.
"I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections [for the gas chambers] took place," said Mr Groening, now in his 80s. "I would like you to believe these atrocities happened - because I was there."
posted
I think that you (horemoheb) are living in a dream , you change everything .. Facts into lies . The Egyptian Army had defeated the jewish army and they started only to resist when USA army fought for them . President Nixon asked us to stop the fight to save the jews from slaughter. Because we asked him for years to say anything to the jewish leaders in palestine to withdraw from Sinai ,, and he said to the Egyptian president .. they are controlling the land I can not tell them to leave it . That's why we attacked the jews in Sinai and have taken it back,after destroying their army completely. Golda Meiyer was crying down the phone to Nixon to save the jewish community in palestine, from being erased by the egyptian and Syrian armies. The J.C in palestine only exists with the american support, and without that they are nothing. The american support comes from the jews who control america period!!!!
Here are a sample of the names you wanted who rule over and control every facet of your american miserable life.
MORTIMER ZUCKERMAN, owner of NY Daily News, US News & World Report and chair of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish American Organizations, one of the largest pro-Israel lobbying groups.
LESLIE MOONVES, president of CBS television, great-nephew of David Ben-Gurion, and co-chair with Norman Ornstein of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers, appointed by Clinton.
JONATHAN MILLER, chair and CEO of AOL division of AOL-Time-Warner
NEIL SHAPIRO, president of NBC News
JEFF GASPIN, Executive Vice-President, Programming, NBC
DAVID WESTIN, president of ABC News
SUMNER REDSTONE, CEO of Viacom, "world's biggest media giant" (Economist, 11/23/2) owns Viacom cable, CBS and MTVs all over the world, Blockbuster video rentals and Black Entertainment TV.
MICHAEL EISNER, major owner of Walt Disney, Capitol Cities, ABC.
RUPERT MURDOCH, Owner Fox TV, New York Post, London Times, News of the World (Jewish mother)
MEL KARMAZIN, president of CBS
DON HEWITT, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes, CBS
JEFF FAGER, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes II. CBS
DAVID POLTRACK, Executive Vice-President, Research and Planning, CBS
SANDY KRUSHOW, Chair, Fox Entertainment
LLOYD BRAUN, Chair, ABC Entertainment
BARRY MEYER, chair, Warner Bros.
SHERRY LANSING. President of Paramount Communications and Chairman of Paramount Pictures' Motion Picture Group.
HARVEY WEINSTEIN, CEO. Miramax Films.
BRAD SIEGEL., President, Turner Entertainment.
PETER CHERNIN, second in-command at Rupert Murdoch's News. Corp., owner of Fox TV
MARTY PERETZ, owner and publisher of the New Republic, which openly identifies itself as pro-Israel. Al Gore credits Marty with being his "mentor."
ARTHUR O. SULZBERGER, JR., publisher of the NY Times, the Boston Globe and other publications.
WILLIAM SAFIRE, syndicated columnist for the NYT.
TOM FRIEDMAN, syndicated columnist for the NYT.
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post. Honored by Honest Reporting.com, website monitoring "anti-Israel media."
RICHARD COHEN, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post
JEFF JACOBY, syndicated columnist for the Boston Globe
NORMAN ORNSTEIN, American Enterprise Inst., regular columnist for USA Today, news analyst for CBS, and co-chair with Leslie Moonves of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers, appointed by Clinton.
ARIE FLEISCHER, Dubya's press secretary.
STEPHEN EMERSON, every media outlet's first choice as an expert on domestic terrorism.
DAVID SCHNEIDERMAN, owner of the Village Voice and the New Times network of "alternative weeklies."
DENNIS LEIBOWITZ, head of Act II Partners, a media hedge fund
KENNETH POLLACK, for CIA analysts, director of Saban Center for Middle East Policy, writes op-eds in NY Times, New Yorker
BARRY DILLER, chair of USA Interactive, former owner of Universal Entertainment
KENNETH ROTH, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch
RICHARD LEIBNER, runs the N.S. Bienstock talent agency, which represents 600 news personalities such as Dan Rather, Dianne Sawyer and Bill O'Reilly.
TERRY SEMEL, CEO, Yahoo, former chair, Warner Bros.
MARK GOLIN, VP and Creative Director, AOL
WARREN LIEBERFORD, Pres., Warner Bros. Home Video Div. of AOL- TimeWarner
JEFFREY ZUCKER, President of NBC Entertainment
JACK MYERS, NBC, chief.NYT 5.14.2
SANDY GRUSHOW, chair of Fox Entertainment
GAIL BERMAN, president of Fox Entertainment
STEPHEN SPIELBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks
JEFFREY KATZENBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks
DAVID GEFFEN, co-owner of Dreamworks
LLYOD BRAUN, chair of ABC Entertainment
JORDAN LEVIN, president of Warner Bros. Entertainment
MAX MUTCHNICK, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami"
DAVID KOHAN, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami"
HOWARD STRINGER, chief of Sony Corp. of America
AMY PASCAL, chair of Columbia Pictures
JOEL KLEIN, chair and CEO of Bertelsmann's American operations
ROBERT SILLERMAN, founder of Clear Channel Communications
BRIAN GRADEN, president of MTV entertainment
IVAN SEIDENBERG, CEO of Verizon Communications
WOLF BLITZER, host of CNN's Late Edition
LARRY KING, host of Larry King Live
TED KOPPEL, host of ABC's Nightline
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN Reporter
PAULA ZAHN, CNN Host
MIKE WALLACE, Host of CBS, 60 Minutes
BARBARA WALTERS, Host, ABC's 20-20
MICHAEL LEDEEN, editor of National Review
BRUCE NUSSBAUM, editorial page editor, Business Week
DONALD GRAHAM, Chair and CEO of Newsweek and Washington Post, son of
CATHERINE GRAHAM MEYER, former owner of the Washington Post
HOWARD FINEMAN, Chief Political Columnist, Newsweek
WILLIAM KRISTOL, Editor, Weekly Standard, Exec. Director Project for a New American Century (PNAC)
RON ROSENTHAL, Managing Editor, San Francisco Chronicle
PHIL BRONSTEIN, Executive Editor, San Francisco Chronicle,
RON OWENS, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco)
JOHN ROTHMAN, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco)
MICHAEL SAVAGE, Talk Show Host, KFSO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco) Syndicated in 100 markets
MICHAEL MEDVED, Talk Show Host, on 124 AM stations
DENNIS PRAGER, Talk Show Host, nationally syndicated from LA. Has Israeli flag on his home page.
BEN WATTENBERG, Moderator, PBS Think Tank.
ANDREW LACK, president of NBC
DANIEL MENAKER, Executive Director, Harper Collins
DAVID REZNIK, Editor, The New Yorker
NICHOLAS LEHMANN, writer, the New York
HENRICK HERTZBERG, Talk of the Town editor, The New Yorker
SAMUEL NEWHOUSE JR, and DONALD NEWHOUSE own Newhouse Publications, includes 26 newspapers in 22 cities; the Conde Nast magazine group, includes The New Yorker; Parade, the Sunday newspaper supplement; American City Business Journals, business newspapers published in more than 30 major cities in America; and interests in cable television programming and cable systems serving 1 million homes.
DONALD NEWHOUSE, chairman of the board of directors, Associated Press.
PETER R KANN, CEO, Wall Street Journal, Barron's
RALPH J. & BRIAN ROBERTS, Owners, Comcast-ATT Cable TV.
LAWRENCE KIRSHBAUM, CEO, AOL-Time Warner Book Group
Horemheb!!!! ever heard of Clear Channel?
Posts: 19 | From: Giza-UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Why do the jews in palestine consider that 6th october a day of mourning for the land they lost? They commemorate it as a day of mourning we celebrate it as a day of victory. Pourquoi? s'il vous plait. RSVP ASAP
Posts: 19 | From: Giza-UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Nonsense. The Jews continued to hold the Siani untill the Camp David Accords in 1978. American troops were never involved in that war. ----------------------------------------------- Egypt's trapped Third Army
When the cease fire came into effect, Israel had lost territory on the east side of the Suez Canal to Egypt (shown in red) but gained territory west of the canal and in the Golan Heights (shown in green) Food and water given by Israel to the trapped Egyptian 3rd ArmyThe United Nations passed a cease-fire, largely negotiated between the U.S. and Soviet Union, on October 22. It called for an end to the fighting between Israel and Egypt (but technically not between Syria and Israel). It came into effect 12 hours later at 6:52 PM Israeli time. (Rabinovich, 452). Because it went into effect after darkness, it was impossible for satellite surveillance to determine where the front lines were when the fighting was supposed to stop. (Rabinovich, 458)
When the cease-fire began, the Israeli forces were just a few hundred meters short of their goal—the last road linking Cairo and Suez. During the night, the Egyptians broke the cease-fire in a number of locations, destroying nine Israeli tanks. In response, David Elazar requested permission to resume the drive south, and Moshe Dayan approved. (Rabinovich, 463) The Israeli troops finished the drive south, captured the road, and trapped the Egyptian Third Army west of the Suez Canal.
The next morning, October 23, a flurry of diplomatic activity occurred. Soviet reconnaissance flights had confirmed that Israeli forces were moving south, and the Soviets accused the Israelis of treachery. In a phone call with Golda Meir, Henry Kissinger asked, "how can anyone ever know where a line is or was in the desert?" Meir responded, "they'll know, all right." Kissinger found out about the trapped Egyptian army shortly thereafter. (Rabinovich, 465).
Kissinger realized the situation presented the United States with a tremendous opportunity—Egypt was totally dependent on the United States to prevent Israel from destroying its trapped army, which now had no access to food or water. The position could be parlayed later into allowing the United States to mediate the dispute, and push Egypt out of Soviet influences.
"[Kissinger] had pushed Israel during the war to strike hard—harder, in fact, than it had initially been able to—in order to demonstrate its military superiority. But once the Israelis had begun smiting the Egyptians, he worked towards a speedy cease-fire that would leave the Egyptians with their dignity intact. Israel, in short, was to emerge quasi-victorious, not triumphant" (Rabinovich, 486) As a result, the United States exerted tremendous pressure on the Israelis to refrain from destroying the trapped army, even threatening to support a UN resolution to force the Israelis to pull back to their October 22 positions if they did not allow non-military supplies to reach the army. In a phone call with Israeli ambassador Simcha Dinitz, Kissinger told the ambassador that the destruction of the Egyptian Third Army "is an option that does not exist" (Rabinovich, 487).
[edit] Nuclear alert In the meantime, Brezhnev sent Nixon a letter in the middle of the night of October 23–24. In that letter, Brezhnev proposed that American and Soviet contingents be dispatched to ensure both sides honor the cease-fire. He also threatened that "I will say it straight that if you find it impossible to act jointly with us in this matter, we should be faced with the necessity urgently to consider taking appropriate steps unilaterally. We cannot allow arbitrariness on the part of Israel" (Rabinovich, 479). In short, the Soviets were threatening to intervene in the war on Egypt's side.
The message arrived after Nixon had gone to bed. Kissinger immediately called a meeting of senior officials, including Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, CIA Director William Colby, and White House Chief of Staff Alexander Haig. The Watergate scandal had reached its apex, and Nixon was so agitated and discomposed that they decided to handle the matter without him: ----------------------------------------------- The United States literally saved egypt from complete disaster in this war. You are thinking of the initial stages of the war before the Egyptian Army became trapped and cut off.
Posts: 5822 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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You all can practice freedom of speech as long as you only say what we approve. ( an American think-tank )
America, the land of the free- minus the free! Although our national anthem assures us that we live in "the land of the free," Americans cannot honestly pretend that we are doing our best to preserve that freedom anymore, well, except for Horemheb, then again he probably thought the Spanish Inquisition went well too Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Uh, Needsomeone, you say the Holocaust did not happen? There were photos of it on the computer. Tell that to some of the Holocaust survivors! Let's see what they have to say. Also, you should have met Emily Schindler, the wife of Oscar Schindler, but, unfornately, she died in 2001, but, if she was alive she could tell you some stories. And if you don't believe that Oscar and Emily Schindler existed, I can show you some photos of them. And there was a Adolf Hitler, because there's videos of him talking on TV. And if you don't believe, go to Poland and visit Sobibor and see what they it says about the victims of the Holocaust. It will prove you wrong in a heartbeat! I challenge you. How do you know it didn't? Were you born then?
Posts: 935 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Horemheb: what we have karla is a bunch of mental dim wits you hate Jews and want to deny the Holocaust for their own political reasons. They know the truth but the truth does not serve these political ends. The really absurd part is that there really are no reasonable political ends. Israel has won the land and the issue is ended.
derailing, assumption, accusation and insult........Typical Asshole
Learn how to debate !
you're ignored
coming from an perverted idiot liek you ,do you think this is something too make fun of loser
Posts: 1223 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2005
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This account fills one with rage that anyone could deny the reality of the Jewish genocide
By Robert Fisk
04/01/06 "The Independent" -- -- At a second-hand book stall in the Rue Monsieur le Prince in Paris a few days ago, I came across the second volume of Victor Klemperer's diaries. The first volume, recounting his relentless, horrifying degradation as a German Jew in the first eight years of Hitler's rule - from 1933 to 1941 - I had bought in Pakistan just before America's 2001 bombardment of Afghanistan.
It was a strange experience - while sipping tea amid the relics of the Raj, roses struggling across the lawn beside me, an old British military cemetery at the end of the road - to read of Klemperer's efforts to survive in Dresden with his wife Eva as the Nazis closed in on his Jewish neighbours. Even more intriguing was to find that the infinitely heroic Klemperer, a cousin of the great conductor, showed great compassion for the Palestinian Arabs of the 1930s who feared that they would lose their homeland to a Jewish state.
"I cannot help myself," Klemperer writes on 2 November 1933, nine months after Hitler became Chancellor of Germany. "I sympathise with the Arabs who are in revolt (in Palestine), whose land is being 'bought'. A Red Indian fate, says Eva."
Even more devastating is Klemperer's critique of Zionism - which he does not ameliorate even after Hitler's Holocaust of the Jews of Europe begins. "To me," he writes in June of 1934, "the Zionists, who want to go back to the Jewish state of AD70 ... are just as offensive as the Nazis. With their nosing after blood, their ancient 'cultural roots', their partly canting, partly obtuse winding back of the world they are altogether a match for the National Socialists..."
Yet Klemperer's day-by-day account of the Holocaust, the cruelty of the local Dresden Gestapo, the suicide of Jews as they are ordered to join the transports east, his early knowledge of Auschwitz - Klemperer got word of this most infamous of extermination camps as early as March 1942, although he did not realise the scale of the mass murders there until the closing months of the war - fill one with rage that anyone could still deny the reality of the Jewish genocide.
Reading these diaries as the RER train takes me out to Charles de Gaulle airport - through the 1930s art deco architecture of Drancy station where French Jews were taken by their own police force before transportation to Auschwitz - I wish President Ahmadinejad of Iran could travel with me.
For Ahmadinejad it was who called the Jewish Holocaust a "myth", who ostentatiously called for a conference - in Tehran, of course - to find out the truth about the genocide of six million Jews, which any sane historian acknowledges to be one of the terrible realities of the 20th century, along, of course, with the Holocaust of one and a half million Armenians in 1915.
The best reply to Ahmadinejad's childish nonsense came from ex-president Khatami of Iran, the only honourable Middle East leader of our time, whose refusal to countenance violence by his own supporters inevitably and sadly led to the demise of his "civil society" at the hands of more ruthless clerical opponents. "The death of even one Jew is a crime," Khatami said, thus destroying in one sentence the lie that his successor was trying to propagate.
Indeed, his words symbolised something more important: that the importance and the evil of the Holocaust do not depend on the Jewish identity of the victims. The awesome, wickedness of the Holocaust lies in the fact that the victims were human beings - just like you and me.
How do we then persuade the Muslims of the Middle East of this simple truth? I thought that the letter which the head of the Iranian Jewish Committee, Haroun Yashayaie, wrote to Ahmadinejad provided part of the answer. "The Holocaust is not a myth any more than the genocide imposed by Saddam (Hussein) on Halabja or the massacre by (Ariel) Sharon of Palestinians and Lebanese in the camps of Sabra and Chatila," Yashayaie - who represents Iran's 25,000 Jews - said.
Note here how there is no attempt to enumerate the comparisons. Six million murdered Jews is a numerically far greater crime than the thousands of Kurds gassed at Halabja or the 1,700 Palestinians murdered by Israel's Lebanese Phalangist allies at Sabra and Chatila in 1982. But Yashayaie's letter was drawing a different kind of parallel: the pain that the denial of history causes to the survivors.
I have heard Israelis deny their army's involvement in the Sabra and Chatila massacres - despite Israel's own official enquiry which proved that Ariel Sharon sent the murderers into the camps - and I remember how the CIA initially urged US embassies to blame Iran for the gassings at Halabja.
Indeed, it is easy to find examples of one of the most egregious lies uttered against the 750,000 Palestinians who fled their land in 1948: that they were ordered by Arab radio stations to flee their homes until the Jews had been "driven into the sea" - when they would return to take back their property. Israeli academic researchers have themselves proved that no such radio broadcasts were ever made, that the Palestinians fled - victims of what we would today call ethnic cleansing - after a series of massacres by Israeli forces, especially in the village of Deir Yassin, just outside Jerusalem.
So what is there to learn from the second volume of Klemperer's diaries? Just after he received word from the Gestapo that he and Eva were to be transported east to their deaths, the RAF raided Dresden and, amid the tens of thousands of civilians which the February 1945 firestorm consumed, the Gestapo archives also went up in flames. All record of the Klemperers' existence was turned to ash, like the Jews who preceded them to Auschwitz. So the couple took off their Jewish stars and wandered Germany as refugees without papers until they found salvation after the Nazi surrender.
Just before their rescue, they showed compassion to three distraught German soldiers who were lost in the forests of their homeland. And even during their worst ordeals, as they waited for the doorbell to ring and the Gestapo to arrive to search their Dresden home and notify them of their fate, Klemperer was able to write in his diary a sentence which every journalist and historian should learn by heart: "There is no remedy against the truth of language."Posts: 637 | Registered: Apr 2005
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verb. To deconstruct an article on a point by point basis in a highly critical manner. Derived from the name of journalist Robert Fisk, a frequent target of such critical articles in the blogosphere (qv).
Usage: "Orrin Judd did a severe fisking of an idiotic article in the New York Times today..."
quote:Originally posted by Organized Crime: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fisk
verb. To deconstruct an article on a point by point basis in a highly critical manner. Derived from the name of journalist Robert Fisk, a frequent target of such critical articles in the blogosphere (qv).
Usage: "Orrin Judd did a severe fisking of an idiotic article in the New York Times today..."
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