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well, theose are all certanily strong American supporters. All also have no reason in particular to oppose Israel. Keep in mind that from a foreign policy perspective it is in the best interest of all of those nations to oppose the spread of Iranian power in the middle east, thus, yes, they would all strongly oppose Hezbollah.
Lets try to understand the difference between the wild eyed Islamo Fascists led by Iran and the moderate Muslim states led by Jordan and Egypt. The two groups have little in common.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Osama bin Laden's deputy warned that Persian Gulf countries and Israel would be al-Qaida's next targets, according to a new videotape aired by Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera on Monday, the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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Facts are facts. Egypt has a peace treaty with israel. Egypt opposes the growth of Iranian power in the middle east including in Lebanon. I find it interesting that we have Egyptians on this board who hold views that would be a disaster for their own country if they were to occur.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Cenematic, Its not a matter of being anti arab or anti muslim. The United States is the world's only super power with an economy larger than the next ten biggest economies combined and a military larger than the next 20 biggest combined. That means that it is our responsibility to set the agenda for the globe. What would be disastrous to the world would be a void in which no single power maintained order. Its ok to be a religious fanatic unless you lose all touch with realism.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Cenematic, Its not a matter of being anti arab or anti muslim. The United States is the world's only super power with an economy larger than the next ten biggest economies combined and a military larger than the next 20 biggest combined. That means that it is our responsibility to set the agenda for the globe. What would be disastrous to the world would be a void in which no single power maintained order. Its ok to be a religious fanatic unless you lose all touch with realism.
I am not a religious fanatic ... ur the fanatic .... if you've been to other sections other than the politics u'd have seen my posts u wouldnt have thought I am a religious fanatic idiot. Ur the one who lost all touch with realism & who's illusioned. becasue simply your dear America is harming itself and as the rest of the world. But anyway I get it... you're from Texas & very right wing like Bush
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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Arrow, get over yourself. America has no moral authority to police the world. To claim the higher moral ground, you have to occupy it by behaving decently. This world knows that you have failed in this. Having economic advantage does not equate to a moral authority. You will learn this in time, when China and other superpowers develop further.
I like Americans. They are decent people, with a reasonable democracy. They chose badly when electing a leader (as did Britain) but that will also be corrected soon. Your tone does nothing to correct negative impressions of decent Americans.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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SayWhatYou see, America has the political authority to order the world because of its power just as the Greeks, Romasn, Brits etc had before us. It is not necessarily a moral position as much as it is a pragmatic position. American power is unchallenged anywhere in the world. We have already noted that most of the arab governments in the middle east have a pro American foreign policy. Part of that is because we are everyone's biggest market and everyone's best customer. China has onny 10% of our GNP and the jury is still out as to how much they can grow. Even so, America has had challengers in the past and all have come up short. Many of those were from much more dynamic societies than the Chinese.
As for george Bush , your bias is showing. he is right on the war on terror, thats why he was re-elected. He is right on Iraq and political jargon aside the Democrats agree with him. I can assure you that no matter who is elected in 2008 our foreign policy will not change. The United States will not allow iraq to fall into the Iranian orbit and that is what would happen if we were to pull out.
Its nice to be emotional I suppose but power politics has nothing to do with emotions. My tone is the realistic tone that america has and will continue to have in the world. We did not become the world's only super power by listening to the left wing loonies among us. There is a reason why they have never held power here.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Arrow, your bias shows in every sentence you write. Your misguided, republican, small-town, Midwest prejudice spews onto the page, as a last ditch grasp for any crumbs of credibility.
May I remind you that America is not an empire, not does it profess to have any such ambitions? May I also remind you that America has had to retreat from wars in the past? The Brits didn't have any authority to rule an empire, it just took it, by force. Given a choice, most countries chose to govern themselves - even America wanted out!
Your arrogant tone doesn't serve you well. The war on terror is best served by gaining the trust of the world. Peace cannot be forced onto people. Do I dislike the foreign policy of Bush? Yes. He and Blair will now sink fast. Just watch.
America is great country, with a great democratic tradition. Treasure your left wing loonies, as they serve to demonstrate the richness of democracy. You don't have to try to dominate the world, to move forward. The notion is laughable, as the world won't allow it!
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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I have no prejudice. Its a matter of International Relations scholarship. American middle eastern policy is not determined by George Bush or the Republican party. It is set by over a thousand experts who have achieved brilliance in the foreign policy field. It is influenced by business leaders as well as Congress. Both parties are in broad agreement as to what is in the best interest of the United States.
America is the leader of a global economy in which most of the world depends for their prosperity. The problem in the middle east has nothing to do with Islam and nothing to do with palestine. The issue is Iran and the stability of the worlds oil supply. As the remaining super power in the world it falls on us to maintain a vialble pol;itical position in the region. The moderate Arab states such as Egypt and Jordan understand this full well and support our efforts 100%. To pull out of Iraq would be insanity and would eventually lead to a bigger and broader war. Iran would begin to dominate the middle east and would have the oil revnue to become a major threat to world stability. The modern arabs do no favor that, the Europeans do not favor that and the democrats in America do not favor that policy either. Again, the left loonies have never had power here....you need to ask yourself why that has been the case before you wander off into the twilght zone with them.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: I have no prejudice. Its a matter of International Relations scholarship. American middle eastern policy is not determined by George Bush or the Republican party. It is set by over a thousand experts who have achieved brilliance in the foreign policy field. It is influenced by business leaders as well as Congress. Both parties are in broad agreement as to what is in the best interest of the United States.
America is the leader of a global economy in which most of the world depends for their prosperity. The problem in the middle east has nothing to do with Islam and nothing to do with palestine. The issue is Iran and the stability of the worlds oil supply. As the remaining super power in the world it falls on us to maintain a vialble pol;itical position in the region. The moderate Arab states such as Egypt and Jordan understand this full well and support our efforts 100%. To pull out of Iraq would be insanity and would eventually lead to a bigger and broader war. Iran would begin to dominate the middle east and would have the oil revnue to become a major threat to world stability. The modern arabs do no favor that, the Europeans do not favor that and the democrats in America do not favor that policy either. Again, the left loonies have never had power here....you need to ask yourself why that has been the case before you wander off into the twilght zone with them.
Im gonna repeat myself again, Only ASSKISSING GREEDY BLOOD-THIRSTY MIDDLE EASTERN DICTATOR LEADERS support Bush in his EXTREEME RIGHT FASCIST NAZI POLICY but that doesnt represent the people's feelings, opinions or desires. And if America continues like this it will wander off into the twilight zone & history has a strange way of repeating itself. Good luck with your beliefs
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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Just exactly what would you have the United States do ? If President Bush's policies do not reflect the views of the American people why do Republicans control every single branch of government at both the federal and state level. When you combine those with mainstream democrats the voice of America is overwhelming. Secondly, no poll has ever advocated a cut and run policy in Iraq. America is a capitalist country. Drive down any major street in America and capitalism looks back at you from every direction. Capitalism has provided our jobs and our prosperity. We are prosperous because we are smarter and work harder than any people in the world. We can also be brutal when we have to be. This looney wacko left view of President Bush is crazy. His administration has spent more federal money on poor people than any administration since LBJ. Again, just exactly what would you have us do?
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Rubbing salt into your politically simplistic wounds gives me no pleasure, Arrow. Key republicans, even today, have delivered blows to Bush, regarding America's treatment of prisoners. Do the names McCain and Warner mean anything to you? Even Powell has questioned America's moral authority. Is he a left wing loony too?
Your views appear as nutty as the fundamentalist rot spouted by some on this forum. Is this what you really intend? You are not smarter....I present your comments as evidence of this. Have you ever even ventured outside America? Your views are so narrow that I would be astonished if you have.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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I'm trying to get some coherent answers from you. All of the men you mentioned...McCain, Warner, Powell are strong supporters of our policy in the middle east however much they may quibble over some issues. John McCain is more of a hawk on Iraq than is the President.
Again, what would you have America do?
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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It's that American arrogance & ignorace that always gets your America into trouble. Ignorance is bliss... And u seem to be living in bliss Arrow.......you have no idea how the majoity of the world is suffering. Do some research then come back here. We dont have an answer to your question "what do you want America to do?" Your America should know what to do... since they are claiming to be the smartest hard working nation
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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Arrow, does it tell you nothing, when key REPUBLICAN members of congress are in rebellion, refusing to back their own president's legislation? Is this not just a teeny hint that the crumbling has started? Wake up and smell the coherent roses. Do you see not also see evidence that key backers of Bush (like Blair) have the political vultures circling over their heads?
''The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism'', says COLIN POWELL.
Your views are simplistic and naive. You don't have to insult other nations, to love your own.
America's foreign policy will change. Watch this space. The American people will determine what America should do. The United States government needs to listen more and negotiate better. Bully boy tactics, based on economic strength cut no ice with the developed world. You also should learn to distinguish between credible democracies and propped up puppet states. Democracy is good enough for us all.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Again you have said nothing. Republican members of congress are not in rebellion. John McCain wants to send even more troops to Iraq than does President Bush. Tony Blair is a political progressive, not conservative at all on domestic issues. There is not a scrap of evidence that our foreign policy will change. Change to what?
I have not insulted any nation. Every nation has interests of their own that they try to promote. This is basic stuff that you learn in a sophomore political science class. Just who are we supposed to listen to and who are we supposed to negotiate with? Its easy to scream about how evil President Bush is without putting forth a single idea on what we should be doing and why?
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Again you have said nothing. Republican members of congress are not in rebellion. John McCain wants to send even more troops to Iraq than does President Bush. Tony Blair is a political progressive, not conservative at all on domestic issues. There is not a scrap of evidence that our foreign policy will change. Change to what?
I have not insulted any nation. Every nation has interests of their own that they try to promote. This is basic stuff that you learn in a sophomore political science class. Just who are we supposed to listen to and who are we supposed to negotiate with? Its easy to scream about how evil President Bush is without putting forth a single idea on what we should be doing and why?
Do you think he'll listen?
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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Its not just a matter of listening Cin. Unlike some of you I at least understand that there are different views floating around out there. At least with some substance it is possible to have a reasonable exchange of views. What I am hearing is a constant tirade of Bush and America bashing with no real issues put forward. I am always open to new ideas but keep in mind that I am an American so I am naturally going to favor policies that benifit my people.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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There is nothing wrong with critisizing your own country Arrow? I as an Egyptian do that because I am aware that it's not perfect & so is the rest of the world. No nation or country is perfect. We are a third world & still lagging behind but even the developed countries are not perfect either.
posted
Arrow, do you get the news in Texana? The subtlties of political decline take a little more attention span than banging away at your one beat drum require.Switch on the TV and you will see what I refer to. On second thoughts, be my guest: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5347564.stm
By saying 'Americans are smarter, more hard working' than the rest of the world, you imply superiority. There is no proof that Americans are smarter. Confusing facts with personal opinion makes you appear argument weaker.
At least work on debating tactics, before embarrassing yourself with the old 'solve all of the problems of the world, instantly' tactic, or you will dismiss any argument.
Goodnight and happy reading!
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Well, Thats right and I often disagree with the government here. In terms of foreign policy there is often not a wrong answer. American and French interests may not be the same. It does not neccessarily make one or the other wrong or right. Often in foreign policy the interests of two nations come into conflict. In those cases a war is the last resort. The definition of war is the 'failure of diplomacy.' It is obvious that the foreign policy goals of Iran and the United States cannot both succeed. Either we have to reach agreement (which means both sides have to WANT to compromise) or we end up in conflict. Often here I hear a great deal of emotionalism and if foreign policy is anything, its not emotional.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Say What You See, So if American culture is "not superior" you are saying that we are the richest, most powerful nation on earth by accident???????? Please explain?
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Well, Thats right and I often disagree with the government here. In terms of foreign policy there is often not a wrong answer. American and French interests may not be the same. It does not neccessarily make one or the other wrong or right. Often in foreign policy the interests of two nations come into conflict. In those cases a war is the last resort. The definition of war is the 'failure of diplomacy.' It is obvious that the foreign policy goals of Iran and the United States cannot both succeed. Either we have to reach agreement (which means both sides have to WANT to compromise) or we end up in conflict. Often here I hear a great deal of emotionalism and if foreign policy is anything, its not emotional.
ok... so when nations disagree they end in conflict. That's true. But with America it is always that every nation has to submit to it's own interests. Bush said "who's not with us, is against us" conflicting interests doesnt make two nations enemies
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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well, if agreement cannot be reached then the strongest of the two nations will usually win and have its way. In 1956 the Brits and French put troops into Egypt to control the Suez canal. The United states opposed that move and forced the British and French to withdraw. We did not do that because of some moral position or to help the Egyptians. We did it because our foreign trade policy has traditionally opposed colonialism. That did not mean the British and french were our enemies but it did mean we were obviously the stronger power and able to get our way. Fifty years earlier we would not have been strong enough to force the British out.
Conflicting interests do not neccessarily make nations enemies but if the issue is severe enough to both sides they can lead to war. I'm affraid we are on that path right now with Iran. I cannot see a way to reach a resolution, perhaps one will come up .
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Why does it always have to be "the suvival of the fittest", "dog eat dof". Why cant we be civilized, friendly, peaceful & fair? I really don't hope for more war... I hate wars. Tell me honestly how u feel when u turn the channels & see people dying in Iraq, Lebanon or Afghanistan
posted
I think foreign policy is very cold and it can be cruel at times.
I am no different than most in that seeing helpless people die is never agreeable. The problem is people. Even though our technology has improved man is basically just as he has always been and has not changed. Aristotle said that humans are driven by "lust, rage and greed" and I suppose thats true. After world war II many utopians on the left thought that man could be perfected and that we would evolve into better creatures. That has not happened and we seem to be as prone to war as we have always been.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: I think foreign policy is very cold and it can be cruel at times.
I am no different than most in that seeing helpless people die is never agreeable. The problem is people. Even though our technology has improved man is basically just as he has always been and has not changed. Aristotle said that humans are driven by "lust, rage and greed" and I suppose thats true. After world war II many utopians on the left thought that man could be perfected and that we would evolve into better creatures. That has not happened and we seem to be as prone to war as we have always been.
I agree with that statement.... but I dont agree with the result. Even if man didnt evolve we can make rules. ok that's a little of topic but let's discuss/ explore It's like saying that since men have the urge to ejaculate & that long time ago men used to sleep with as many females as possible. And because of that urge it's not his fault if he's unfaithful doesnt mean that men now have the excuse to be polygamous & cheat.
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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The problem is two fold. First, we cannot unite in any sort of global sense because we do not have common cultures. Secondly, without common cultures and with no global unity we have no way to regulate behavior. Thirdly, with limited resources in the world there is brutal competition for those resources and no real way to regulate the competition.
Some might say well, "lets just be good." Problem is, man has never shown any ability to do that. As Paul harvey is fond of saying..."its not one world."
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: The problem is two fold. First, we cannot unite in any sort of global sense because we do not have common cultures. Secondly, without common cultures and with no global unity we have no way to regulate behavior. Thirdly, with limited resources in the world there is brutal competition for those resources and no real way to regulate the competition.
Some might say well, "lets just be good." Problem is, man has never shown any ability to do that. As Paul harvey is fond of saying..."its not one world."
So Arrow, I'd be stupid to ask if you are a guy. You are. Right? Never really got the opportunity to know a little about you.
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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well yes I'm a guy. I'm a teacher, born and raised in oklahoma but have spent most of my life in east Texas.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Oh you're some mysterious guy/ person? you'd rather discuss politics but you never touch the Living in Egypt Section or Relationships Section? So that you never expose yourself. Unlike me, I exposed myself in every way. How smart Arrow?
posted
hummm, well...its that emotion again huh? Relationships are a lot better than politics, wouldn't you say?
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: hummm, well...its that emotion again huh? Relationships are a lot better than politics, wouldn't you say?
ofcourse, Relationships, life & entertainment is the best of them all... I am a female so i have interests that differ from yours
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: what made you think history or english as opposed to say math or biology?
I asked myself the same question but u seemed to me more like a history or English teacher...just went with my instincts & I could be wrong
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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U never answered my question? Still want to be mysterious or u dont want to chat with anybody in the board becuase it's too much emotion for you? Or maybe now the converstaion is suddenly dull coz it's not about politics anymore Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Say What You See, So if American culture is "not superior" you are saying that we are the richest, most powerful nation on earth by accident???????? Please explain?
Arrow, can you not see that measuring cultures in terms of superiority sends out the wrong message? If you have a richer neighbour, does that make him better than you? Cultures are about more than just money. You see everyone as an enemy of America. The way you pitch ideas annoys even friends of your country.
America is a remarkably successful democracy, with a diverse, rich culture. It isn't perfect and the people aren't smarter, nor more diligent than all other nations. You are right to be proud of your country, but wrong to couch language in terms of superiority. I wish you a good day.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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I would agree that everyone is equal in the eyes of god but in practical earthly terms everyone is not equal. If my neighbor has a PHD in medicine and makes a half million dollars a year he is smarter than me, thats just a fact. It is obvious that something in anglo-american culture 'works' and works better than it does in other places. Call it what you like but by most measuring standards, yes, we are superior.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Arrow, yeah, ''Four legs good, two legs bad''. of course, everyone doesn't have equality of opportunity, so you can't judge on a level playing field. Smarter is different from being educated. An education signifies opportunity and the seizing of opportunity. It doesn't mean that an uneducated person has a lesser IQ than an educated one. As a teacher, you should know this.
The people of undeveloped and third world countries aren't less smart. They are simply at a point in history, where other countries have more resources, or have managed those resources successfully. By your logic, Americans were pretty dumb, when the country was first established...yet the same genetic gene pool is still in place today. Culture is the fabric against which people live their lives. It is about more than money and education. Why you have to make everything as a competition is puzzling. Your approach does nothing to communicate the decency of Americans and encourage understanding.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: I would agree that everyone is equal in the eyes of god but in practical earthly terms everyone is not equal. If my neighbor has a PHD in medicine and makes a half million dollars a year he is smarter than me, thats just a fact. It is obvious that something in anglo-american culture 'works' and works better than it does in other places. Call it what you like but by most measuring standards, yes, we are superior.
Arrow there is some truth to most of what you say & you definately know very well what you're talking about.... but I am still not convinced! I am not convinced with the way the Americans are arrogant & feel superior. If I am richer & got a PHD that doesnt make me feel superior to somebody who isnt... because he may have got something else better.... what about emotional intelligence? (for instance)
I have many Americans freinds "in real Life" who hate what Bush has done to their country & to the world.... They are ashamed! & they emphathise with us
By the way, ur not a teacher Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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cin, If you were to travel to this part of the world you would find many who love George Bush. As I mentioned before this hate George Bush think is crazy and irrational. He is a moderate Republican at best. hell, we can't even get him to p[lug up the borders. He talks about the poor Mexicans who only want to support their families.
Most of it is sour grapes on the part of the far left. he kicked their ass politically and they hate him for it. The other aspect is that nobody likes the big guy.
I do agree with you that the first world should do more to help third world nations. That said, we cananot help them by tearing ourselves down. That is what the utopian far left program really amounts to and it simply cannot work. look at the flip side. The United States pours trillions of dollars in oil money into the middle east and Africa. What happens to that money? Radical Islam is not the answer. It will keep there countries as poor as they have always been. The people always have the final power buy if they opt for socialism or radical islam they will never improve. Its wrong to blast us just because we have been successful and that is what many do.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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Having good advertising/propaganda technique is not in itself a bad thing, but it does mean that US citizens can't see the world clearly from within their own environment. The USA is in many ways an excellent country. The problem is that this is so often at cost to the rest of the world, both in wealth and lives. State-of-the-art media manipulation ensures that most US citizens don't know what is being done in their name. US Americans are given the mushroom treatment by their government and media, but this does not exonerate them from the responsibility to seek the facts for themselves.
As the saying goes, whoever discovered water wasn't a fish. It is impossible for most US residents to be aware of what is going on at a global scale. You have to get out of the pond to see the water. You have to get out of the palace to understand the feelings on the street.
Posts: 209 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: cin, If you were to travel to this part of the world you would find many who love George Bush. As I mentioned before this hate George Bush think is crazy and irrational. He is a moderate Republican at best. hell, we can't even get him to p[lug up the borders. He talks about the poor Mexicans who only want to support their families.
Most of it is sour grapes on the part of the far left. he kicked their ass politically and they hate him for it. The other aspect is that nobody likes the big guy.
I do agree with you that the first world should do more to help third world nations. That said, we cananot help them by tearing ourselves down. That is what the utopian far left program really amounts to and it simply cannot work. look at the flip side. The United States pours trillions of dollars in oil money into the middle east and Africa. What happens to that money? Radical Islam is not the answer. It will keep there countries as poor as they have always been. The people always have the final power buy if they opt for socialism or radical islam they will never improve. Its wrong to blast us just because we have been successful and that is what many do.
I did Arrow visit the States... beautiful country, very friendly people & I loved it by the way.... But Arrow, Isnt it obvious to us all & you too that America has a hidden agenda in the Middle East? They are after the oil? Dosent that tell you that these wars arent for the right reasons?
Posts: 484 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jul 2006
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I do not think our interest in oil amounts to a 'hidden agenda.' There is no question that the oil draws us to the region as it should. We use 20 million barrels of oil every day to keep our economy going, the euros use 15 million per day. That is 35 million barrels PER DAY before you even add in the Japanese, chinese and others. The global economy depends on a steady suppy of oil for 'all of the trading nations' including the United states. Without control of the oil the prosperity of the world would be in peril. Radical Islam has injected to issues into the region and has threatened that supply. The only reason the united states takes the lead in the region is that as the world's strongest military power it falls on us. There is simply not another nation that has the ability to project power around the world.
This is not a moral issue, its a practical issue. Keep in mind also that while we are doing these things we continue to pour billions into the area, as do the other heavy players in the global economy. You can get a much clearer picture of what is really going on in the world by reading publications such as 'Foreign Affairs' and other scholarly journals. They actually give you the real issues minus the emotional pap.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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