posted
Sudan has been part of the Egyptian Empire for thousands of years. Egypt is chocking under the burden of a large population occupying no more than 4% of 1 million square k territory. The land just won't sustain the people anymore. Only thinking outside the box can help us here. Sudan is vastly rich in resources with a population of 35m occupying a territory of over 2.5 million square k. The sudanese government is not really popular with the world community. The sudanese military is extremely inferior to the Egyptian army. The country could be secured within weeks. The map of the middle east is being reshaped. This an opportunity for Egypt and the sudanese people to build an Arab/African Empire.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: Sudan has been part of the Egyptian Empire for thousands of years. Egypt is chocking under the burden of a large population occupying no more than 4% of 1 million square k territory. The land just won't sustain the people anymore. Only thinking outside the box can help us here. Sudan is vastly rich in resources with a population of 35m occupying a territory of over 2.5 million square k. The sudanese government is not really popular with the world community. The sudanese military is extremely inferior to the Egyptian army. The country could be secured within weeks. The map of the middle east is being reshaped. This an opportunity for Egypt and the sudanese people to build an Arab/African Empire.
Did someone have their "GWB imperialism frosted flakes" this morning for a power breakfast?
You are forgeting that Egyptians live on 6% of the nation's land. 4% of that land is arable land for agriculture, meant for farming and not for human residences. Why don't Egyptians move out to the desert and farm on the land they are building villas, apartment blocks, and houses on?
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: Sudan has been part of the Egyptian Empire for thousands of years. Egypt is chocking under the burden of a large population occupying no more than 4% of 1 million square k territory. The land just won't sustain the people anymore. Only thinking outside the box can help us here. Sudan is vastly rich in resources with a population of 35m occupying a territory of over 2.5 million square k. The sudanese government is not really popular with the world community. The sudanese military is extremely inferior to the Egyptian army. The country could be secured within weeks. The map of the middle east is being reshaped. This an opportunity for Egypt and the sudanese people to build an Arab/African Empire.
Did someone have their "GWB imperialism frosted flakes" this morning for a power breakfast?
You are forgeting that Egyptians live on 6% of the nation's land. 4% of that land is arable land for agriculture, meant for farming and not for human residences. Why don't Egyptians move out to the desert and farm on the land they are building villas, apartment blocks, and houses on?
You want to farm sand dunes Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: Sudan has been part of the Egyptian Empire for thousands of years. Egypt is chocking under the burden of a large population occupying no more than 4% of 1 million square k territory. The land just won't sustain the people anymore. Only thinking outside the box can help us here. Sudan is vastly rich in resources with a population of 35m occupying a territory of over 2.5 million square k. The sudanese government is not really popular with the world community. The sudanese military is extremely inferior to the Egyptian army. The country could be secured within weeks. The map of the middle east is being reshaped. This an opportunity for Egypt and the sudanese people to build an Arab/African Empire.
Did someone have their "GWB imperialism frosted flakes" this morning for a power breakfast?
You are forgeting that Egyptians live on 6% of the nation's land. 4% of that land is arable land for agriculture, meant for farming and not for human residences. Why don't Egyptians move out to the desert and farm on the land they are building villas, apartment blocks, and houses on?
You want to farm sand dunes
No the camel jockies do that in billion dollar greenhouses, then they buy their weed from the Israelis instead of the kings of dope the Yemanis.
No I want the Egyptians to farm the arable land in the most fertile land in the country, the land they are now living on. Which was farms until 30-40 years ago, but everyone in a village just had to move to Cairo.
But from what I hear the department of agriculture is finding a way of collecting silt from Lake Nassar and have it sent down the Nile for distribution in the farming communities of the delta. In just the last 15 years my FIL (Father In Law) has increased his purchase of fertilizer 5 times.
So I suggest the people living in Cairo move to communities like the "Sixth of October" "Ismaliya" "Port Said" and so forth, or right outside of Alex in the desert regions so arable land can be saved for farming, not for building.
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posted
The reintegration of Sudan would increase Egyptian influence in Africa ten fold. Will allow for better distribution of water resources. Will allow Egypt to tab into the Sudanese oil reserves which the Chinese are getting their hands on. This is unorthodox thinking and it can work.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: All the arable land in Egypt won't be enough to sustain the massive population growth.
Then wear a condom.
Anyhow in due time, and the need for two incomes in a household, 3 kids instead of 6 will be the norm. (Actually during the late 1980s the birth rate dropped dramatically and it has held steady at 3.4 children per couple for about a decade now)
But population explosion isn't a big factor for egypt. Lowering of the infant mortality is, Egypt's quality of living is one of the best amongst developing countries. But the fact that Egypt was on the fast track to becoming a developed country in the 1960s and reversed that trend in the 1970s (most due to war and mismanagement of resources in government hands).
Egypt in 1790 was a very sparsely populated country. The Ottoman Empire (Khedival Monarchy) encouraged population growth so Egypt's natural resources could be developed and Mohamed Ali was counting on a robust population to thrust Egypt into the Industrial age. Having children for the sake of Egypt was considered to be patriotic. I think it was Khedive Ismeal and Khedive Tawfiq who derailed alot of Mohamed Ali's development plans.
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posted
By extending into Sudan we will be able to build facilities out of reach of the Israelis. The newly formed state will be the largest in the mid east surpassing Iran.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: All the arable land in Egypt won't be enough to sustain the massive population growth.
Then wear a condom.
Anyhow in due time, and the need for two incomes in a household, 3 kids instead of 6 will be the norm. (Actually during the late 1980s the birth rate dropped dramatically and it has held steady at 3.4 children per couple for about a decade now)
But population explosion isn't a big factor for egypt. Lowering of the infant mortality is, Egypt's quality of living is one of the best amongst developing countries. But the fact that Egypt was on the fast track to becoming a developed country in the 1960s and reversed that trend in the 1970s (most due to war and mismanagement of resources in government hands).
Egypt in 1790 was a very sparsely populated country. The Ottoman Empire (Khedival Monarchy) encouraged population growth so Egypt's natural resources could be developed and Mohamed Ali was counting on a robust population to thrust Egypt into the Industrial age. Having children for the sake of Egypt was considered to be patriotic. I think it was Khedive Ismeal and Khedive Tawfiq who derailed alot of Mohamed Ali's development plans.
Good thing you mentioned Ali. He expanded into Sudan. All your saying is traditional thinking with long term effects if ever to work. The expansion would yield immediate positive results. The restoration of national pride is an immediate consequence.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: The reintegration of Sudan would increase Egyptian influence in Africa ten fold. Will allow for better distribution of water resources. Will allow Egypt to tab into the Sudanese oil reserves which the Chinese are getting their hands on. This is unorthodox thinking and it can work.
In regard to increasing Egyptian influence in Africa, then denying Sudan exists would be best. I can't tell you how many Africans I know loathe the Sudan. And every Sudanese I have met has lied about being Sudanese.
In regards to water, Egypt needs to update the Egypt-Anglo treaty of I think it was 1929. Even the 4 water and resources treaties before that one. Sorry you also have to watch out for hypro-engineers from Israel who are helping the Ethopians in Addas Abas build a water power plant. The Ethopians are under the impression that it needs to reduce 40% of the water flow in order to make the hydro-plant a success. Ethopians are also willing to hand over 20% of the energy this plant produces over to the Israelis. Same is type of plan is being discussed with the Somalians, the Kenyans and the Ugandans. Somehow everyone nation on the Nile needs to cut 80% of the Nile's flow befor it reaches Egypt.
I have spoken to Ethopians about this and they just become very pale and quiet. But Kenyans are willing to discuss this completely. Ugandans are actually really pissed off that the topic has been breached with their government. WHile the Somalis don't believe a word of it.
I was right about the long distance phone call transmissions. I am right about this too.
Remember the world cup and that outburst from that East African soccer player?
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: Good thing you mentioned Ali. He expanded into Sudan. All your saying is traditional thinking with long term effects if ever to work. The expansion would yield immediate positive results. The restoration of national pride is an immediate consequence.
But dude, Mohamed Ali expected the British to help keep the Sudan under Egypt's thumb. Without that military introduction, Britian would've not had its hand around the Monarchy's neck when it came to the Suez Canal!
And besides didn't Mohamed Ali also make a military excursion into the Levant just to push the Ottoman Empire to grant his lineage a monarchy?
Isn't that like Yassar Arafat disregarding 90% of the West Bank's human rights woes to protect the elite families of Juresalem from losing its privilages granted to them from Israel?
And you haven't even thought about the repurcussions for the Sudanese, the non-Arab Sudanese. Refugees in Egypt are not treated very well, how are the Egyptian military going to treat them in their own country?
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: The reintegration of Sudan would increase Egyptian influence in Africa ten fold. Will allow for better distribution of water resources. Will allow Egypt to tab into the Sudanese oil reserves which the Chinese are getting their hands on. This is unorthodox thinking and it can work.
In regard to increasing Egyptian influence in Africa, then denying Sudan exists would be best. I can't tell you how many Africans I know loathe the Sudan. And every Sudanese I have met has lied about being Sudanese.
In regards to water, Egypt needs to update the Egypt-Anglo treaty of I think it was 1929. Even the 4 water and resources treaties before that one. Sorry you also have to watch out for hypro-engineers from Israel who are helping the Ethopians in Addas Abas build a water power plant. The Ethopians are under the impression that it needs to reduce 40% of the water flow in order to make the hydro-plant a success. Ethopians are also willing to hand over 20% of the energy this plant produces over to the Israelis. Same is type of plan is being discussed with the Somalians, the Kenyans and the Ugandans. Somehow everyone nation on the Nile needs to cut 80% of the Nile's flow befor it reaches Egypt.
I have spoken to Ethopians about this and they just become very pale and quiet. But Kenyans are willing to discuss this completely. Ugandans are actually really pissed off that the topic has been breached with their government. WHile the Somalis don't believe a word of it.
I was right about the long distance phone call transmissions. I am right about this too.
Remember the world cup and that outburst from that East African soccer player?
Agree. Except for the part about communications
Having Egyptian forces on their doorsteps will change the equation.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: The reintegration of Sudan would increase Egyptian influence in Africa ten fold. Will allow for better distribution of water resources. Will allow Egypt to tab into the Sudanese oil reserves which the Chinese are getting their hands on. This is unorthodox thinking and it can work.
In regard to increasing Egyptian influence in Africa, then denying Sudan exists would be best. I can't tell you how many Africans I know loathe the Sudan. And every Sudanese I have met has lied about being Sudanese.
In regards to water, Egypt needs to update the Egypt-Anglo treaty of I think it was 1929. Even the 4 water and resources treaties before that one. Sorry you also have to watch out for hypro-engineers from Israel who are helping the Ethopians in Addas Abas build a water power plant. The Ethopians are under the impression that it needs to reduce 40% of the water flow in order to make the hydro-plant a success. Ethopians are also willing to hand over 20% of the energy this plant produces over to the Israelis. Same is type of plan is being discussed with the Somalians, the Kenyans and the Ugandans. Somehow everyone nation on the Nile needs to cut 80% of the Nile's flow befor it reaches Egypt.
I have spoken to Ethopians about this and they just become very pale and quiet. But Kenyans are willing to discuss this completely. Ugandans are actually really pissed off that the topic has been breached with their government. WHile the Somalis don't believe a word of it.
I was right about the long distance phone call transmissions. I am right about this too.
Remember the world cup and that outburst from that East African soccer player?
Agree. Except for the part about communications
Having Egyptian forces on their doorsteps will change the equation.
You think having Egypt in Sudan will force Ethopian, Kenyan and Somalian hydro-electric plants to change their projected goals and its affliations (differnt engineering firms instead of a bunch of Israelis might show that they are indeed serious about development and not pushing an Israeli agenda)?
Personally its a huge concern for Egypt to lose its flow of the Nile. And that is the card these hydro-electric plants push.
Invading Sudan might be taken as a threat to Kenya and Ethopia, which in turn might convince them to go through with the plans for these hydro-electric plants.
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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Invading Sudan might be taken as a threat to Kenya and Ethopia, which in turn might convince them to go through with the plans for these hydro-electric plants.
Exactly, they're not taking us seriously cause they're out of reach. Once we're there, we can bomb the hell out of these dams.
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Invading Sudan might be taken as a threat to Kenya and Ethopia, which in turn might convince them to go through with the plans for these hydro-electric plants.
Exactly, they're not taking us seriously cause they're out of reach. Once we're there, we can bomb the hell out of these dams.
Sadat did that once, but only because he had signed the Camp David Accords.
What new piece of paper is the president going to sign to become a traitor to Arabs?
I mean seriously the only reason why these water treaties have been effective until now is because Egypt has used diplomacy.
Actually bombing these damns probably put Egypt in a very weak position diplomatically. No other Arab country has taken a diplomatic position in greater Arab affairs, using force will retract whatever position Egypt has as the leader of the Arab world.
UAE, KSA, and Qatar are only leaders in regard to doleing out money, not diplomatically.
A decade ago Khadafi had offered Ethopia and Kenya help with developing hydro-electric plants, and Egypt chose to handle it diplomatically. Why can't the same technique be used again?
Or are your motivations is more for the assimulation of Dafur?
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo: Actually bombing these damns probably put Egypt in a very weak position diplomatically. No other Arab country has taken a diplomatic position in greater Arab affairs, using force will retract whatever position Egypt has as the leader of the Arab world.
Egypt is no longer the leader of the Arab world. The Sudanese government is not popular with any of them. Having forces their will help negotiate with the Kenyans and the Ethiopians. They can't ignore that fact.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo: Actually bombing these damns probably put Egypt in a very weak position diplomatically. No other Arab country has taken a diplomatic position in greater Arab affairs, using force will retract whatever position Egypt has as the leader of the Arab world.
Egypt is no longer the leader of the Arab world. The Sudanese government is not popular with any of them. Having forces their will help negotiate with the Kenyans and the Ethiopians. They can't ignore that fact.
Or are your motivations is more for the assimulation of Dafur?
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo: Actually bombing these damns probably put Egypt in a very weak position diplomatically. No other Arab country has taken a diplomatic position in greater Arab affairs, using force will retract whatever position Egypt has as the leader of the Arab world.
Egypt is no longer the leader of the Arab world. The Sudanese government is not popular with any of them. Having forces their will help negotiate with the Kenyans and the Ethiopians. They can't ignore that fact.
Or are your motivations is more for the assimulation of Dafur?
The whole area will have to be assimilated. Concessions can be made though as details are worked out and the need arises. It's the south that would be the major problematic area.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: The whole area will have to be assimilated. Concessions can be made though as details are worked out and the need arises. It's the south that would be the major problematic area.
And by assimilated, you mean "assimiluation" in the same manner in which the Sudanese government is doing it today?
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: The whole area will have to be assimilated. Concessions can be made though as details are worked out and the need arises. It's the south that would be the major problematic area.
And by assimilated, you mean "assimiluation" in the same manner in which the Sudanese government is doing it today?
Details with regard to minority rights and self rule can be worked out as long as the integrity of the new state is maintained. Having a superior military power - not Janjaweed - should help make this happen.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by katangah: The whole area will have to be assimilated. Concessions can be made though as details are worked out and the need arises. It's the south that would be the major problematic area.
And by assimilated, you mean "assimiluation" in the same manner in which the Sudanese government is doing it today?
Details with regard to minority rights and self rule can be worked out as long as the integrity of the new state is maintained. Having a superior military power - not Janjaweed - should help make this happen.
Shouldn't justice for the south and for Dafur be achieved first and have their input, their points be included in this "assimilation"?
I mean seriously why should Egypt trample the rights of Southern Sudanese and Dafur Sudanse in order to solve their water treaties issues and various other "population" problems, which could be easily solved in another manner without taking over another country?
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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I mean seriously why should Egypt trample the rights of Southern Sudanese and Dafur Sudanse in order to solve their water treaties issues and various other "population" problems, which could be easily solved in another manner without taking over another country?
We have reached a state where we can't solve our problems using local resources. We can't continue to push people out as immigration laws are tightening everywhere. The expansion will serve all parties concerned. After all they have been fighting amongst each other forever. A strong central government can enforce development for the benefit of all.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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I mean seriously why should Egypt trample the rights of Southern Sudanese and Dafur Sudanse in order to solve their water treaties issues and various other "population" problems, which could be easily solved in another manner without taking over another country?
We have reached a state where we can't solve our problems using local resources. We can't continue to push people out as immigration laws are tightening everywhere. The expansion will serve all parties concerned. After all they have been fighting amongst each other forever. A strong central government can enforce development for the benefit of all.
Have you ever seen this kind of situation work? I mean seriously when has one country taking over another been a good thing?
Please give me examples and dates when this has been a success.
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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I mean seriously why should Egypt trample the rights of Southern Sudanese and Dafur Sudanse in order to solve their water treaties issues and various other "population" problems, which could be easily solved in another manner without taking over another country?
We have reached a state where we can't solve our problems using local resources. We can't continue to push people out as immigration laws are tightening everywhere. The expansion will serve all parties concerned. After all they have been fighting amongst each other forever. A strong central government can enforce development for the benefit of all.
Have you ever seen this kind of situation work? I mean seriously when has one country taking over another been a good thing?
Please give me examples and dates when this has been a success.
Yeah, Sudan part of Egypt all along until just 50 years ago.
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posted
katangah, you have forgotten that people like Muhammed Ali and Ottomans who expanded into Sudan were not indigenous Egyptians. The foreign regine forced Egyptian peasants into becoming soliders. Most here have forgotten about the Fellahin and how they were treated under the foreigners.
One of the reasons why the Mahdi fought against the Anglo-Egyptian forces was because he felt such a regine was un-Islamic. Conquering the fellow Muslim Sudanese is not Islamic and I would expect the Islamic authorities in Egypt to stand up against it.
All this time you don't take any consideration to how the Sudanese feel about this. You underestimate the Sudanese much like the British did and will get bitterly suprised. The Beja people of the Eastern Sudan are excellent warriors.Which such actions you might even force the northern and southern Sudanese to join together to fight the Egyptians.
Egyptians are not fighters by nature like the desert Arabs are. Never historically have they been and are not really know. The problem is the idenity of Arab has been imposed upon Egyptians that traditionally had nothing to do with the Arabian peninsula. The same can be said of Maghrebian countries like Morroco,Algeria and etc. This is just my perpective an please don't get mad at me for expressing it.
If you support invasion into the Sudan then please don't tell me about the suffering of Iraq or Palestine. You will sound like a contridiction.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: katangah, you have forgotten that people like Muhammed Ali and Ottomans who expanded into Sudan were not indigenous Egyptians. The foreign regine forced Egyptian peasants into becoming soliders. Most here have forgotten about the Fellahin and how they were treated under the foreigners.
One of the reasons why the Mahdi fought against the Anglo-Egyptian forces was because he felt such a regine was un-Islamic. Conquering the fellow Muslim Sudanese is not Islamic and I would expect the Islamic authorities in Egypt to stand up against it.
All this time you don't take any consideration to how the Sudanese feel about this. You underestimate the Sudanese much like the British did and will get bitterly suprised. The Beja people of the Eastern Sudan are excellent warriors.Which such actions you might even force the northern and southern Sudanese to join together to fight the Egyptians.
Egyptians are not fighters by nature like the desert Arabs are. Never historically have they been and are not really know. The problem is the idenity of Arab has been imposed upon Egyptians that traditionally had nothing to do with the Arabian peninsula. The same can be said of Maghrebian countries like Morroco,Algeria and etc. This is just my perpective an please don't get mad at me for expressing it.
If you support invasion into the Sudan then please don't tell me about the suffering of Iraq or Palestine. You will sound like a contridiction.
It appears as if you still see the idealist version of a "greater Africa" in Egypt.
Katangah and most Egyptians don't recognize the southern Sudanese at all. And you better believe that the Egyptian government doesn't either.
Egyptians relate almost completely with Arabs, and thus relate to the Sudanese government and not the lower half of the Sudanese populace.
And using anthropological data from a century ago, instead of relating completely with the modern Egyptian self-concept makes your above arguements moot. A waste of keystrokes again, modern Egypt isn't an artifact in a museum.
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: katangah, you have forgotten that people like Muhammed Ali and Ottomans who expanded into Sudan were not indigenous Egyptians. The foreign regine forced Egyptian peasants into becoming soliders. Most here have forgotten about the Fellahin and how they were treated under the foreigners.
One of the reasons why the Mahdi fought against the Anglo-Egyptian forces was because he felt such a regine was un-Islamic. Conquering the fellow Muslim Sudanese is not Islamic and I would expect the Islamic authorities in Egypt to stand up against it.
All this time you don't take any consideration to how the Sudanese feel about this. You underestimate the Sudanese much like the British did and will get bitterly suprised. The Beja people of the Eastern Sudan are excellent warriors.Which such actions you might even force the northern and southern Sudanese to join together to fight the Egyptians.
Egyptians are not fighters by nature like the desert Arabs are. Never historically have they been and are not really know. The problem is the idenity of Arab has been imposed upon Egyptians that traditionally had nothing to do with the Arabian peninsula. The same can be said of Maghrebian countries like Morroco,Algeria and etc. This is just my perpective an please don't get mad at me for expressing it.
If you support invasion into the Sudan then please don't tell me about the suffering of Iraq or Palestine. You will sound like a contridiction.
Funny u should claim that the Sudanese r better fighters. I'm sure you're aware of Ali's failed attempt to recruit them. They used to burn their rifles for fire wood Ali wanted to keep the Egyptians as Falaheen to finance his wars. Eventually the Modern Egyptian Army that took Sudan, Arabia, the Levant, Greece and stopped short of Istanbul was a falaheen Army.
I'm not being racist. This should be viewed as a reintegration effort not occupation.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:It appears as if you still see the idealist version of a "greater Africa" in Egypt
No, I believe in a greater Egypt in the vision of the late Saad Zaghlul. Egypt is apart of Africa both geographically and historically.
quote:Katangah and most Egyptians don't recognize the southern Sudanese at all. And you better believe that the Egyptian government doesn't either
Please don't speak for Egyptians since you are not one. I don't need a foreigner such as yourself to tell me how or what my own people think.
quote:Egyptians relate almost completely with Arabs, and thus relate to the Sudanese government and not the lower half of the Sudanese populace
Again,a a foreigner, I don't think you can justifiably say who the Egyptians relate to. Please stop telling me about my own poeple and country. I am an Egyptian!!!
quote:And using anthropological data from a century ago, instead of relating completely with the modern Egyptian self-concept makes your above arguements moot. A waste of keystrokes again, modern Egypt isn't an artifact in a museum
I was not using anthropological material but historical events of the past to relate them to the present. The self-concept that Egyptians have in the modern times is a vast layer of complexity that goes from the rural Delta into Aswan. A foreigner like yourself would not understand the self-concept a rural villager has in Upper Egypt has.
BTW, I was not really adressing you but you always seen to creep into every post I make regardless.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: The Albino said:
quote:It appears as if you still see the idealist version of a "greater Africa" in Egypt
No, I believe in a greater Egypt in the vision of the late Saad Zaghlul. Egypt is apart of Africa both geographically and historically.
quote:Katangah and most Egyptians don't recognize the southern Sudanese at all. And you better believe that the Egyptian government doesn't either
Please don't speak for Egyptians since you are not one. I don't need a foreigner such as yourself to tell me how or what my own people think.
quote:Egyptians relate almost completely with Arabs, and thus relate to the Sudanese government and not the lower half of the Sudanese populace
Again,a a foreigner, I don't think you can justifiably say who the Egyptians relate to. Please stop telling me about my own poeple and country. I am an Egyptian!!!
quote:And using anthropological data from a century ago, instead of relating completely with the modern Egyptian self-concept makes your above arguements moot. A waste of keystrokes again, modern Egypt isn't an artifact in a museum
I was not using anthropological material but historical events of the past to relate them to the present. The self-concept that Egyptians have in the modern times is a vast layer of complexity that goes from the rural Delta into Aswan. A foreigner like yourself would not understand the self-concept a rural villager has in Upper Egypt has.
BTW, I was not really adressing you but you always seen to creep into every post I make regardless.
Dude I have heavy doubts that you are an Egyptian in the first place.
You have a tendancy to see Egypt through the eyes of a "Lost Africa" and black militancy than what Egypt actually is.
Modern Egyptians don't bother to answer your fantasy world, because they pity you.
If you have given up on African American reparations and have instead staked out "Egypt" as the African American's answer to the Jewish Homeland "Israel", then you are a race obessed nutjob.
Now why not go get ********* to hack me again and have a real Egyptians do you dirty work. Much like what happened in Liberia. Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Funny u should claim that the Sudanese r better fighters. I'm sure you're aware of Ali's failed attempt to recruit them. They used to burn their rifles for fire wood [[Big Grin]]
Actually, I believe Ali or the later rulers did actually use Sudanese soliders in their military units. Many of these Sudanese soliders were actually slaves captured from different parts of the Sudan.
The people I am particularly speaking about the the Beja otherwise known as the fuzzy wuzzies that upset the Anglo-Egyptian army under the Mahdi.
katangah said:
quote:Ali wanted to keep the Egyptians as Falaheen to finance his wars. Eventually the Modern Egyptian Army that took Sudan, Arabia, the Levant, Greece and stopped short of Istanbul was a falaheen Army.
When did the modern Egyptian army take the Sudan,Arabia and the Levant? If you are speaking of the Anglo-Egyptian army it was lead by the Ottomans and British,and not indigenous Egyptians. Indigenous Egyptians were simply soliders but never really commanded the military.
katangah said:
quote:I'm not being racist. This should be viewed as a reintegration effort not occupation.
I never accused you of racism but that the Sudanese should have a voice in such matter. Because you assume that Sudanese want to integrate with Egyptians or that Egyptians want to integrate with Sudanese.
How exactly did Sudan succeed Egypt? Was it by their own choice? Too bad there are no Sudanese on this forum that can speak for themselves. Any Sudanese lurkers on this forum?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Lets be realsitic, Egypt is NOT going to invade Sudan. This is not 1939 and the world would put a stop to that effort quickly. Mubarak would not consider such a move.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Dude I have heavy doubts that you are an Egyptian in the first place[/qyote]
I don't need your approval of what my birth certificate says about my country of origin.
[quote]You have a tendancy to see Egypt through the eyes of a "Lost Africa" and black militancy than what Egypt actually is
What are you talking about? I not an advocate of black militancy. Again you are telling me how I am supposed to percieve Egypt.
quote:Modern Egyptians don't bother to answer your fantasy world, because they pity you
Let modern Egyptians speak for themselves please. I don't claim to be the voice of all Egyptians and neither are you.
quote:If you have given up on African American reparations and have instead staked out "Egypt" as the African American's answer to the Jewish Homeland "Israel", then you are a race obessed nutjob
I am not an advocate for reperations for African-Americans nor is reperations or obtaining a homeland for African Americans a concern of mine. I have a homeland and that is Egypt!!!!
quote:Now why not go get ********* to hack me again and have a real Egyptians do you dirty work. Much like what happened in Liberia. [[Roll Eyes]]
Sonomod, I have never hacked into or had anybody hack into your account. I have nothing personal against you but you obviously have something against me. You keep slandering me with false accusations.
If I wanted to hack into your system I would do it without anybody's help!!! I stand on my own too feet and donot require people to fight my battles for me.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Dude I have heavy doubts that you are an Egyptian in the first place[/qyote]
I don't need your approval of what my birth certificate says about my country of origin.
[quote]You have a tendancy to see Egypt through the eyes of a "Lost Africa" and black militancy than what Egypt actually is
What are you talking about? I not an advocate of black militancy. Again you are telling me how I am supposed to percieve Egypt.
quote:Modern Egyptians don't bother to answer your fantasy world, because they pity you
Let modern Egyptians speak for themselves please. I don't claim to be the voice of all Egyptians and neither are you.
quote:If you have given up on African American reparations and have instead staked out "Egypt" as the African American's answer to the Jewish Homeland "Israel", then you are a race obessed nutjob
I am not an advocate for reperations for African-Americans nor is reperations or obtaining a homeland for African Americans a concern of mine. I have a homeland and that is Egypt!!!!
quote:Now why not go get ********* to hack me again and have a real Egyptians do you dirty work. Much like what happened in Liberia. [[Roll Eyes]]
Sonomod, I have never hacked into or had anybody hack into your account. I have nothing personal against you but you obviously have something against me. You keep slandering me with false accusations.
If I wanted to hack into your system I would do it without anybody's help!!! I stand on my own too feet and donot require people to fight my battles for me.
I won't bother reading this Professor Stormfront.org
You are just a little too possessive of your "lost Africa homeland" to be taken seriously.
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Like I care if you read or respond to me. I did not ask for your responce to my post. You were the one who responded not I!!!!
Two middle fingers right in your face. You can take your perceptions of Egypt and Egyptians and stick it up your $$$.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Like I care if you read or respond to me. I did not ask for your responce to my post. You were the one who responded not I!!!!
Two middle fingers right in your face. You can take your perceptions of Egypt and Egyptians and stick it up your $$$.
And bolded above is how many modern Egyptians feel about you.
Isn't your African homecoming just a too imperialist?
I mean I occasionally go in and take a look at your weird little section of this forum, like how many Cerole African Americans treated Liberia, isn't many of your AE nutjobs looking at modern Egypt with the same goals?
Learned alot from your few hundred year stay in the colonizing west didn't yah?
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:And bolded above is how many modern Egyptians feel about you.
Isn't your African homecoming just a too imperialist?
I mean I occasionally go in and take a look at your weird little section of this forum, like how many Cerole African Americans treated Liberia, isn't many of your AE nutjobs looking at modern Egypt with the same goals?
Learned alot from your few hundred year stay in the colonizing west didn't yah?
Didn't you say you were not going to bother reading my post? I guess you cannot get enough of me sonomod. Howa ahlik marabokeesh wala eih? Ya bintee roo7ee il3abee b3eed
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:And bolded above is how many modern Egyptians feel about you.
Isn't your African homecoming just a too imperialist?
I mean I occasionally go in and take a look at your weird little section of this forum, like how many Cerole African Americans treated Liberia, isn't many of your AE nutjobs looking at modern Egypt with the same goals?
Learned alot from your few hundred year stay in the colonizing west didn't yah?
Didn't you say you were not going to bother reading my post? I guess you cannot get enough of me sonomod. Howa ahlik marabokeesh wala eih? Ya bintee roo7ee il3abee b3eed
Ausar, Egypt won't lower their britches for you the way Liberia did.
Just give up and find another "homeland" to return to.
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Ausar, Egypt won't lower their britches for you the way Liberia did.
Just give up and find another "homeland" to return to
But.. you will lower your skirt for any Egyptian man. How about about staying in America and not polluting Egypt with your foul smell.
You want me sonomod? Let's stop playing games. You remeber all the wonderful email exchanges we had with each other? I won't tell.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Actually, I believe Ali or the later rulers did actually use Sudanese soliders in their military units. Many of these Sudanese soliders were actually slaves captured from different parts of the Sudan.
The people I am particularly speaking about the the Beja otherwise known as the fuzzy wuzzies that upset the Anglo-Egyptian army under the Mahdi.
When did the modern Egyptian army take the Sudan,Arabia and the Levant? If you are speaking of the Anglo-Egyptian army it was lead by the Ottomans and British,and not indigenous Egyptians. Indigenous Egyptians were simply soliders but never really commanded the military.
Not true. If you're an Egyptian, then sure you're familiar with the work of El Raf3i. R u calling him a liar. Ali went into Sudan in 1811/1812 to hunt the renegade Mamaleek. He started conscripting the Sudanese for the army up until 1814/1815 when it was clear that there is no way they would become modern soldiers. This is when they were dispanded and replaced with Egyptian soldiers - falaheen. This is the army that went to Arabia in 1817, Greece 1820s and the Levant in 1830s.
The Anglo involvement came at a much later stage after the occupation of Egypt 1872.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: Lets be realsitic, Egypt is NOT going to invade Sudan. This is not 1939 and the world would put a stop to that effort quickly. Mubarak would not consider such a move.
I'm actually being realistic. We need to fix a mistake that was enforced on us by the Brits as part of the negotiations for them to let Egypt go. They insisted on allowing the Sudan to break away. We have fought hard and long for the Sudan. We have lost thousands of soldiers there. Since our departure the have had one military coupe after another. They have been hostile to us often harboring fanatics and I need not remind of Bin Laden. If we just sit on our hands we will wake up in the near future begging for water for sure. A deal can be worked out with the Americans, Brits and the French. The Russians and the Chinese will oppose because they want to maintain the status quo around the world until they resolve their internal issues and be able to break out on the international scene.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ARROW99: The United States would oppose as well.
We would have to make some concessions but they would approve. It's in there interest to have a stable Egypt. Israel will grow more and more isolated in the region and the need a new ally.
Again this is not traditional thinking and it would place Egypt once again on the international scene.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I believe that as political changes take place in Egypt soon, every political party should have a clear policy with regard to the Sudan issue.
Posts: 217 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Take my advice Katanga, don't hold your breath till that happens, we would hate to lose you. I'm not sure how it places Egypt on the international scene.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
The first thing Egypt needs to do is eliminate the Muslim Brotherhood. They need to work hard on their educational system in order to build up their middle class.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Ausar, Egypt won't lower their britches for you the way Liberia did.
Just give up and find another "homeland" to return to
But.. you will lower your skirt for any Egyptian man. How about about staying in America and not polluting Egypt with your foul smell.
You want me sonomod? Let's stop playing games. You remeber all the wonderful email exchanges we had with each other? I won't tell.
Why is it always that every thread has to turn into a string of personal attacks
Only did the deed with one Egyptian guy and I am planning to keep the count down to one.
Email exchanges? Yeah I sent you hundreds of journal articles from 50-130 years ago. Then you peppered these exchanges with insults to my intelligence.
Dude stick with the hoochie mamas at the dance hall. I'll stick the the USDA certified American meat!
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
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