posted
I was with the family over the weekend and my dear Sister in Law got very drunk and we ended up in a huge argument. She is convinced Egyptian women have no rights and are only allowed out in a burqa, and definately of the view that the most important rights of humans are those of women. I'm not too up on the real state of women's lives in Egypt, only what individuals have said to me so would welcome a healthy discussion including links to statistics, reports, and anecdotes on:
(1) general position of women in Egypt with regard to work, study, opportunities, dress codes, morality, sexuality, marriage, divorce, specifics relating to class and relative proportion of women in each social class (2) how much of this is 'being Muslim' and how much cultural (3) what do you think the relative importance of women's rights should be in the context of general human rights in a country like Egypt which is struggling with a host of other issues such as unemployment, poverty, literacy and so on (if I am wrong here, please let me know, I am going on 'received wisdom'!)
I hope we can have a healthy debate and not get into mud-slinging. Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
well thats a pretty complicated question... that may be why you haven't got much a response just yet!
Your sister in law is obviously quite ignorant of the lives that Egyptian women live (i.e. having to wear burqas)
I think that the government does not restrict the rights of women in egypt as much as society does (Although one could argue that if the govt. took a more pragmatic approach to the issue, society would have to follow to some degree).
I hate the feeling that one has as a women when they're in a country like Egypt- that you have to watch out for men. Constantly. If you look at someone in the face, they're going to wink, or make kissy faces, or try and touch you while you walk by, etc etc. I don't like that feeling of not being safe. Guys are given alot more freedom in terms of running around with their friends and going out of the house (but i think thats the case everywhere- the double standard). But I dont like the idea that if I want to go out on a friday night in Egypt, it'd be smarter for me to take a male with me.
As for womens right being the most important issue in human rights.... I dont really agree. Alot of people suggest that womens right should its own separate issue. When you're talking about human rights you're talking about everything from the right to religion, the right to flee, the very right to live a life free from oppression and intimidation. Its way too complicated. Theres places in this world where there are no child labor laws. Where slavery is still practiced, etc.
Posts: 1967 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by oldbag: I was with the family over the weekend and my dear Sister in Law got very drunk and we ended up in a huge argument. She is convinced Egyptian women have no rights and are only allowed out in a burqa, and definately of the view that the most important rights of humans are those of women. I'm not too up on the real state of women's lives in Egypt, only what individuals have said to me so would welcome a healthy discussion including links to statistics, reports, and anecdotes on:
(1) general position of women in Egypt with regard to work, study, opportunities, dress codes, morality, sexuality, marriage, divorce, specifics relating to class and relative proportion of women in each social class (2) how much of this is 'being Muslim' and how much cultural (3) what do you think the relative importance of women's rights should be in the context of general human rights in a country like Egypt which is struggling with a host of other issues such as unemployment, poverty, literacy and so on (if I am wrong here, please let me know, I am going on 'received wisdom'!)
I hope we can have a healthy debate and not get into mud-slinging.
I guess the key here is not to argue with someone who is drunk.
My oldest sister in law is a lawyer and works and goes out alone. She is a very strong woman though. My younger sister in law pretty much stays at home unless either my husband or my older sister in law goes out with her. I think that's her choice though rather than the rule of thumb, though I really couldn't tell you.
I do know that education was very important in their family for EVERYONE, not just for my husband, who was the only son in the family.
As far as sexuality and morality though they are both expected to remain chaste until marriage, which I do believe is the norm over there. Neither one of them has dated and when and if the time is right for them it will happen the traditional way with a wali present at all times.That part is muslim I think moreso than cultural.
I don't know about placing woman's rights above man's rights. I think the rights of both women and men pretty much suck over there at the moment so I think both are equally as important to work on.
That is just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by oldbag: I was with the family over the weekend and my dear Sister in Law got very drunk and we ended up in a huge argument. She is convinced Egyptian women have no rights and are only allowed out in a burqa, and definately of the view that the most important rights of humans are those of women. I'm not too up on the real state of women's lives in Egypt, only what individuals have said to me so would welcome a healthy discussion including links to statistics, reports, and anecdotes on:
(1) general position of women in Egypt with regard to work, study, opportunities, dress codes, morality, sexuality, marriage, divorce, specifics relating to class and relative proportion of women in each social class (2) how much of this is 'being Muslim' and how much cultural (3) what do you think the relative importance of women's rights should be in the context of general human rights in a country like Egypt which is struggling with a host of other issues such as unemployment, poverty, literacy and so on (if I am wrong here, please let me know, I am going on 'received wisdom'!)
I hope we can have a healthy debate and not get into mud-slinging.
Just ignore her, when she falls asleep put her hand in a bowl of warm water....you'll feel better. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Google this name: Magda El Ghitany She is a political writer for 'Al Ahram'. One of many Egyptian, educated professional women that are respected in our society. There are many others.
Gihane Shahine -Try her too she writes well. Just a start Posts: 215 | Registered: May 2007
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I think we must not forget one thing: No matter how modern and liberated official laws might be, the interpretation of these laws still is connected to intellegence,tradition and classes. That`s not only in Egypt, but in all countries of the world! Also in the so called Western civilised societies, there are enough women living in a traditional way with a large gap between the supervision of husband and wife. The husband has the final word, and his will is more important, the wife is obedient untill her own personal limit. It has nothing to do with laws, because in the law, they should be equal!
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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OB, you may want to have a look at the Egyptian Centre For Women's Rights. They will send regular updates, by email, if you choose.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I think there is a lot of variation in Egypt. I'm sure many, many women there lead a life that would make most Western women cringe. But my husband and I were having tea with a friend of his (and wife) in Cairo, and their 18-year-old daughter came in to kiss her mom goodnight -- the daughter was going out to a cafe with some friends, laptop in hand, to go study. She could have been any American girl hanging out at Starbucks with friends.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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