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Muslim bride 'beaten every day by husband and mother-in-law' after being flown from Pakistan for arranged marriage
By Andrew Levy Last updated at 8:47 PM on 05th August 2008
A young Muslim bride was constantly beaten and treated like a slave after arriving in Britain from Pakistan following an arranged marriage, a court heard.
Sania Bibi, 20, was allegedly forced to work 17-hour days as she cooked, cleaned and washed clothes for her husband Haroon Akhtar's family.
She was usually attacked at least twice a day by her husband, who threw her down the stairs on one occasion after his mother complained she had not been doing her chores properly, the jury heard. The husband: Haroon Akhtar yesterday
The husband: Haroon Akhtar yesterday
Within days of his wife's arrival in the UK Akhtar, 28, is said to have told her that he planned to remarry and would force her to look after his new bride's children.
Giving evidence from behind a screen and using an interpreter, Mrs Bibi - who said she came from a middle-class family - said her gruelling days lasted from 6am to 11pm.
'I was told I had been brought here as a servant and I was told I had to do all the work,' she said.
St Albans Crown Court heard Mrs Bibi had not seen her husband in person before their wedding in northern Punjab on April 1, 2006.
Akhtar allegedly returned to the UK two weeks later without having consummated the marriage and his mother Zafia Bibi, 49, and father Ali Akhtar, 55, followed, taking jewellery their daughter-in-law had been given at the wedding.
Mrs Bibi - who claimed not to have seen the jewellery since - travelled to Britain on September 7, 2006, and went to live with them in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire.
But she said on her arrival she discovered her husband's two brothers, older sister and her three young children were also living in the house. Zafia Bibi Ali Akhtar
Left: The mother-in-law Zafia Bibi. Right: The father-in-law Ali Akhtar
Her clothes and shoes were confiscated and she was given pyjamas as work clothes.
She was allowed to change into normal clothes only when guests came. She also claimed she was never allowed to have money and was banned from answering the door or using the phone.
Mrs Bibi told the court on Monday that she and her husband had sex for the first three days following her arrival.
But this stopped suddenly and she was moved into a box room where she slept on a sofa.
Within days, she alleged, she had been put to work for the entire family.
'(My husband) said he had brought me here as a servant to work,' she said.
'He said, "You are not good enough for me" and he would get married a second time and he would have children through his second marriage and I would have to take care of these children.'
The court heard the first beating happened a week after her arrival.
Akhtar allegedly grabbed her by the hair and pushed her against a window before becoming abusive about her family and calling her brothers 'bastards and dogs'.
The jury was told the beatings happened every day, usually before her husband went to his job in IT and on his return.
Once, Zafia Bibi allegedly became angry that the housework had not been done properly and called her son, who attacked his wife in the bathroom before throwing her down the stairs.
Mrs Bibi said she confided in relatives during a visit to Blackburn, but they told her: 'Now that you are married you have to stay there and it is family honour. You belong to that family. You no longer belong to us.'
On her return, the court heard, one brother-in-law threatened to send her back to Pakistan and her sister-in-law said she was going to be sent to a mental asylum, where she would be given electric shocks.
She was finally expelled from the house early in 2007, collected by taxi and driven to her relatives' home.
George Heimler, prosecuting, told the jury: 'It was clear when she arrived in the UK she would work for her husband's family.
'She was given work to do. It was an austere and oppressive regime which involved many long hours. She was regularly admonished for poor performance.
'Haroon told her he wanted to marry someone else. He punched her and slapped her and she lived in a climate of isolation and despondency.'
Rebecca Randall, representing Zafia Bibi, accused Mrs Bibi of spending 'most of your days watching Bollywood films'.
She replied: 'I never used to watch television because all day long they would make sure I was doing something or other.'
Haroon Akhtar denies five charges of causing actual bodily harm. He and his mother deny putting a person in fear of violence between September 1, 2006, and January 9, 2007.
Zafia Bibi and Ali Akhtar deny theft of Sania Bibi's jewellery.
posted
Since this is neither a Pakistani Forum or an Islamic forum I feel the need to put this in context.
Regarding the Cultural aspects of Domestic Violence being hinted at by this poster:
Prevalence of Domestic Violence
last updated February 1, 2006
Domestic violence is a serious problem around the world. It violates the fundamental human rights of women and often results in serious injury or death. While statistics vary slightly, women are victims of violence in approximately 95% of the cases of domestic violence. While women do use violence against intimate partners, women's use of violence is distinct from men's use of violence in historical, cultural, psychological, motivational and situational ways. Statistics on the prevalence of the problem indicate that domestic violence is a worldwide epidemic. Studies show that between one quarter and one half of all women in the world have been abused by intimate partners. Worldwide, 40-70% of all female murder victims are killed by an intimate partner.
Many people view domestic violence as exclusively part of certain ethnic or racial communities, or as unique to certain classes, within their societies. In interviews that The Advocates for Human Rights conducted throughout the CEE/FSU region, for example, people often discussed domestic violence in terms of the race, ethnicity, class, education level or age of the abuser or victim. The group or community identified as the victims and perpetrators depended on the country and background of the person being interviewed. This myth conflicts with research that shows domestic violence occurs in all social, economic, religious and cultural groups.
Statistics relating to the prevalence of domestic violence are critical to any advocacy effort. Statistics can help document the need for certain programs or raise public awareness of the extent of the problem. International covenants signed by many CEE/FSU countries require signatories to collect statistics on domestic violence. For example, the Declaration on the Elimination of Violence Against Women recommends that states parties "[p]romote research, collect data and compile statistics, especially concerning domestic violence, relating to the prevalence of different forms of violence against women and encourage research on the causes, nature, seriousness and consequences of violence against women and on the effectiveness of measures implemented to prevent and redress violence against women." Despite these requirements, statistical information on the prevalence of domestic violence throughout the world or in the CEE/FSU region is still difficult to obtain.
According to the Family Violence Prevention Fund (FVPF), one in every three women in the world has experienced sexual, physical, emotional or other abuse in her lifetime. The World Health Organization (WHO) reports that in forty-eight surveys from around the world, 10-69% of women stated that they had been physically assaulted by an intimate partner at some point in their lives. The WHO also reports that studies from a range of countries show that 40-70% of female murder victims were killed by an intimate partner. A 1997 UNICEF publication reports that between a quarter and one half of women around the world have suffered violence at the hands of an intimate partner. From Charlotte Bunch, The Intolerable Status Quo: Violence Against Women and Girls, The Progress of Nations 45 (UNICEF 1997), available in PDF and web format. Additional global statistics are available from the Family Violence Prevention Fund.
The Astra Network has reported that "29% of women in Romania, 22% in Russia and 21% in Ukraine, reported experience of spousal physical abuse" and that over 42% of all married and cohabiting women in Lithuania "reported that they have been victims of physical or sexual violence or threats of violence by their present partner," although only 10.6% of the Lithuanian respondents "reported the most serious incident to the police." From Astra Network, Sexual and Reproductive Rights and Health in Central and Eastern Europe. A national survey of 4,750 women between 15 and 44 in Moldova found over 7% had been physically assaulted by an intimate partner in the previous twelve months and over 14% had been assaulted at some time in a relationship. From Ending Violence Against Women, in Population Reports, vol. 7, no. 4 (December 1999). In Romania, 29% of adult women in a national survey reported having been physically assaulted by an intimate partner. From Violence Against Women: Effects on Reproductive Health, Outlook, vol. 20, no. 1 (September 2002).
The Network Women's Program reports that a survey of 1,000 women in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan found that over 89% had been abused by husbands, intimate partners, children or relatives. From Network Women's Program, Bending the Bow: Targeting Women's Human Rights and Opportunities, Open Society Institute 22 (2002). The Regional Committee for Europe notes that across the World Health Organization's European Region, between twenty and fifty percent of women have been subjected to one or more forms of gender-based violence. From World Health Organization, European Health Report (EUR/RC51/Conf.Doc./4), 31 (19 July 2001).
UNICEF reports the following statistics on domestic violence for three countries of CEE/FSU:
Estonia: 29% of women aged 18-24 fear domestic violence, and the share rises with age, affecting 52% of women 65 or older, according to a 1994 survey of 2,315 women. Poland: 60% of divorced women surveyed in 1993 by the Centre for the Examination of Public Opinion reported having been hit at least once by their ex-husbands; an additional 25% reported repeated violence. Tajikistan: 23% of 550 women aged 18-40 reported physical abuse, according to a survey. From UNICEF, Domestic Violence Against Women and Girls, 6 Innocenti Digest 1, 5 (2000). The International Helsinki Federation for Human Rights, describing a recent study in Tajikistan in Women 2000: An Investigation into the Status of Women's Rights in Central and South-Eastern Europe and the Newly Independent States 436 (2000), reported that 40% of women polled in the study stated that they had experienced domestic abuse.
In the United States, approximately 22.1% of all women have experienced some form of assault by an intimate partner. Each year, 4.5 million physical assaults are committed against women by intimate partners. From Patricia Tjaden & Nancy Thoennes, Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence 10 (U.S. Department of Justice 2000). In 1999, approximately 1,218 women—more than three women every day—were murdered by an intimate partner. In that same year, intimate partner homicides accounted for 32% of all murders of women. From U.S. Department of Justice, Intimate Partner Violence and Age of Victim 1993-1999 1 (2001). Research on domestic violence in Europe indicates that every day, one woman in five is a victim of domestic abuse.
Additional statistics are available from the Women's Rural Advocacy Programs, the Minnesota Coalition for Battered Women, and DCCADV.
For a list of research and reports on the prevalence of domestic violence, click here.
If ever there has been a controversial verse in the Holy Qur'an, it certainly is verse 4:34. Used by opponents of Islam to label this religion woman-unfriendly (to put it mildly), Muslims themselves are struggling with interpreting it. For yes, let us agree about this: there is no such thing as “the” one and only correct interpretation of the Word of Allah – only Allah knows what He meant. We can only try to understand. And in this particular case, an alternative for the troublesome interpretations of this verse may bring us a bit closer to that objective.
Let us have a look at a (partial) translation of this verse:
"Men are the {qawwam} of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are {qanitat}, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear {nushooz}, admonish them first, then refuse to share their beds, and finally {adriboo} them; but when they {ataa:} to you, then seek not against them means of annoyance: For Allah is Most High, great above you all."
Disobedient women?
The key word to answer this question is {qanitat}, which is a feminine plural of {qanit}, based on the root {q-n-t}. This word appears on many other occasions in the NobleA Qur'an, where it is used exclusively in the sense of 'submissive, obedient to Allah'. Verse 4:34 contains no reason at all to depart from this meaning and to change it into 'obedience to a husband'. This verse is about pious women who, just like pious men, are obedient to Allah. And a wife (husband) who is obedient to God, must live up to her (his) marital duties.
Superior husband and inferior wife?
Throughout the Noble Qur'an, Allah emphasizes that men and women are equal for Him – Allah will judge them in exactly the same way. So it would be strange indeed if a verse would contradict this equality. But is that really the case here? The Arabic word used is {qawwam}, an intensive form of {qaim}, meaning: 'to take care of, to stand up for, to look after'. Therefore, does this verse say that men are superior to women? Not at all. It says: men must look after women. In Islam, men are obliged to financially provide for their wife and children. They have to pay for their housing, clothing, food, medicines, etc. That is what {qawwamoona} means: men must take care of women.
Misbehavior?
Is this verse about what a man should do when his wife 'misbehaves'? The exact word used here, {nushooz}, means 'discord, hostility, dissonance'. In this context it could be interpreted as 'marital problems' .
Beating his wife?
The verse instructs a husband whose wife causes problems in their marriage to first talk to her about it, then leave the marital bed, then {adriboo} his wife, and all of this in view of pursuing a reconciliation as is evident from the subsequent verse 4:35.
ADRIBOO
The Arabic word used here, {adriboo}, from the root {d-r-b}, has several dozens of meanings, such as: 'to beat', but also: 'to forsake, to avoid, to separate, to leave, to part'.
How do we know which interpretation to choose? One way to find out is to relate this verse to other verses in the Glorious Qur'an and to check if the meanings make sense. In this case, let us look at verse 24:2, which describes what should be done in case of adultery:
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, - flog each of them with a hundred stripes..." (Noble Qur'an 24:2)
This verse establishes the principle that for men and women, equal actions lead to equal punishment. When for adultery men and women must receive equal punishment, surely there is no reason why they should be treated differently for any lesser marital problem.
Now let us take a look at the consequences of interpreting {adriboo} one way or another.
Suppose {adriboo} means: 'to beat'.
In this case, verse 4:34 says that when a wife causes a problem in the marriage, her husband should first talk to her about it, then leave their bed, then beat her and all of this in view of increasing his chances of a reconciliation. On the emotional level, this certainly does not sound like a very promising course of action. So let us check this meaning against the bigger framework and in particular against the principle of 'equal behaviour leads to equal punishment'. This would imply that when a husband causes a problem in the marriage, his wife can beat him. At which he could invoke verse 4:34 to beat her again, so that the result would be a perpetual physical fight between spouses! Surely, this makes no sense at all. And indeed, it is not what Allah prescribes for the situation where a husband causes a rift, as will be explained in a moment.
Suppose {adriboo} means: 'to forsake, to avoid', possibly, as Mohammed Abdul Malek 5 suggests: 'to separate, to part'.
Now what do we get? Verse 4:34 now says that when a wife causes a problem in the marriage, her husband should first talk to her about it, then leave their bed (forsaking his sexual satisfaction), then avoid her even more (not talking to her anymore, leaving the room when she enters it, and possibly even leaving the house for a while), in order to prevent things from getting worse, and on the contrary to let things cool down and create enough space in view of increasing chances of a reconciliation.
This sounds like a very logical chain of events.
Also, application of the general rule of verse 24:2 ('equal actions, equal punishment') now means that when a husband causes a marital problem, his wife should forsake a few of her rights, avoid her husband in increasing ways, and try to work towards a reconciliation. And yes, that is precisely what verse 4:128 says:
"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves" (Glorious Qur'an 4:128)
Understanding {adriboo} as 'to forsake, to (gradually) avoid (more and more), possibly eventually leave altogether', clearly makes sense when relating several verses to one another.
And there is more. Beating a wife, would contradict hadiths of the Noble Prophet who repeatedly said: “do not beat believing women!”. It would also contradict the Noble Prophet's instructions about anger – which he explained to originate from Satan and which he described as "a living coal on one's heart". One should not act upon ones anger, lest one would do things one would regret later. When you are angry when you are standing, sit down, the Prophet (pbuh) said. And when you are still angry when you are sitting, then lie down. Interpreting this verse as allowing a husband to beat his wife, surely contradicts these rulings on anger.
Furthermore, Allah says in the Noble Qur'an that one must meet bad behaviour with something that is better, not with something that is worse, in order to turn a hostile situation into a friendly one:
"Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!" (Noble Qur'an 41:13)
Therefore the word {adriboo} cannot really have meant “to beat”, can it?. It must mean something that is better than causing problems, and avoiding the problem certainly is exactly that.
Based on the evidence presented here, it would seem that interpreting {adriboo} as 'to beat', causes several internal conflicts with the meaning of other Qur'anic verses and hadiths, while interpreting it as 'gradually forsaking, more and more and possibly leaving altogether', is a much more logical interpretation that is entirely consistent with the interpretation of other rules in the Glorious Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Noble Prophet Muhammad.
What makes much more sense, is that this verse does not allow a 'superior' husband to 'beat' his 'inferior, disobedient' wife. On the contrary, this verse appears to tell us that a husband must look after his wife (an equal partner who, like he, is obedient to God), and that when his wife is causing problems in their marriage, he should first talk to her about it, if that doesn't help, he should begin avoiding her by leaving the marital bed. If that still doesn't resolve the situation, he should forsake her presence even more, avoid conversations, leave a room when she enters it, avoid her company altogether, and possibly leave the house for a while, so that no problems are added to the conflict, and so that things can cool down a bit to maximize chances for a later reconciliation.
Return to obedience?
When the problem is solved, when the wife is committed to the marriage again, then the husband is advised not to keep using the incident against her and to consider the incident closed.
The exact Arabic wording is: "when then they (fem.pl.) {aTa:} (with) you (masc.pl.), then seek not against them (fem.pl) means of annoyance". The verb {aTa:} (alif taa alif ayn) has several meanings, such as: 'obey', but also: 'comply, comply with, accommodate, give in to', or in French 'filer doux'. Consequently, the verse can be understood to mean: "when then they are committed to the marriage again", or: "when then they give in to/comply with the efforts of the husband to save the marriage", or "when they no longer cause marriage problems", ...
Linguistically there is no compelling necessity to translate {aTa:} as "obedient to the husband". Other interpretations are possible and indeed preferable. Earlier in the verse, there was no reason at all to translate {qanitat} as women who are "obedient to their husband" so that here there isn't any reason to imply that this verse is about a temporary disobedience and a subsequent return to obedience to their husbands. It is not a matter of obedience to him, it is a matter of {nushooz} (marriage problems). And the Noble Qur'an advises that when one of the partners causes a marriage problem, the other should gradually avoid the person who causes the problem, in order to save the marriage - irrespective of who started the strife (4:34, 4:128)
Yet of course, this is only an interpretation. Allah knows best.
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ooooo my god this is the first topic that made me cry.. what that poor woman must have went thru.. i wish her husband was here with me now i would abuse him and make him feel like a damn dog... and i wish she was here so i could protect her and take care of her... damn i hate people like that....makes u wanna wrap yr arms around her and say ok yr safe now noone will ever hurt u again.. i am here i am woman hear me kick his asssss.... I told walid when i live in egypt if i see a man beat his wife we will hide her and walid will beat his ass no if and or butts about it... i cant sit there and watch that crap happen... he said there is no abuse in egypt... there is no gays in egypt.. there is no bad people.. god i wish i had walid's eyes that the world is a perfect place.. i told him there is nothing bad cas u choose not to see it... he said yes i do not see it so there for there is nothin like that here...
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: he said there is no abuse in egypt... there is no gays in egypt.. there is no bad people.. god i wish i had walid's eyes that the world is a perfect place.. i told him there is nothing bad cas u choose not to see it... he said yes i do not see it so there for there is nothin like that here...
OMG, that's even worse, looking away when something happens. Sorry but your boyfriend lives in strong denial! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mdme Butterfly: Domestic violence is NOT an islamic problem, its worldwide
No one is denying that women are abused all over the world to some extent. But, in Islamic countries women are unprotected. Although abuse of women happens in the west, we are against it and criminalise it.
This happeneed in a western country. Imagine the sorry lives of these brides in those Islamic paradises? Where these brides have no one to turn to. where all the laws all the law enforcers are squarely on the side of the husband and his family. incedently if you see these soap operas from pakistan and india, it appears that the ideal brides are beautiful, great mothers, great cooks, great lovers,and great servants of the husband's family. They love nothing more than to take care of every needs of the family while at the same time saving them from whatever problems they face. these are the ideals that, these muslim brides(and hindu) are held to, and for many they just can't meet them.
Muslims speak up about domestic violence (DPA) 21 February 2008
SYDNEY - Women and children are beaten by their menfolk in homes across Australia. Mostly the spur to domestic violence is alcohol but sometimes cultural mores are at work that allow men to excuse their behaviour.
“They view wives and daughters as an extension of their honour and when they deviate from what they would view as accepted ... they see it as an undermining of their own status,” said Sydney psychiatrist Tanveer Ahmed.
He was talking about violence in Muslim homes and commenting specifically on a call from the Muslim Women’s National Network Australia (MWNNA) to tackle those in the community who use religion to justify domestic violence.
“It’s a real problem,” MWNNA president Aziza Abdel-Halim told The Sydney Morning Herald. “There’s wife beating, there’s children beating. Some of them go to the extent of forbidding the woman to leave the home.”
Ahmed said Muslim victims of domestic violence were reluctant to go to the police. If they went to the imam of their mosque, he was likely to side with the perpetrator.
“Very rarely would you get the imam trying to punish the man,” he said. “They’ll see it more as, if not culturally appropriate, then culturally understandable.”
quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: he said there is no abuse in egypt... there is no gays in egypt.. there is no bad people.. god i wish i had walid's eyes that the world is a perfect place.. i told him there is nothing bad cas u choose not to see it... he said yes i do not see it so there for there is nothin like that here...
OMG, that's even worse, looking away when something happens. Sorry but your boyfriend lives in strong denial!
yes that is exactly what i told him...
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
there is Tina and a man aint afraid to beat his woman on the street, i have whitnessed it. And i am forever hearing men slapping the woman in the house, and her screaming the place down. The last day i saw a gang fight in the street where bottles were being thrown and smashed, belive me i was a nervous wreck, and started crying in street, i cant belive the violence that goes on here. Not a day goes by when i dont see a fight or a screaming arguement.
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Domestic violence is vile,it happens everywhere regardless of faith, and although in poor countries the Law tends to be slow to deal with it, it is Society that leads the disapproval; education tends to help women and girls to demand better treatment. Domestic violence is a big problem in many devloping countries, [and amongst immigrants from those countries]. Stupid of popular newspapers to continue to portay Moslems as degenerate and violent. Would be interesting to explore various offences in regard to the perp's religion. Shall we assume that religion promotes that kind of crime? How about seeing these headlines?
'Catholic molests child'? 'Jewish banker embezzled pension fund'? 'Evangelical gang robs bank'? 'Buddhist not wearing seatbelt'?
quote:Originally posted by yorkshire rose: there is Tina and a man aint afraid to beat his woman on the street, i have whitnessed it. And i am forever hearing men slapping the woman in the house, and her screaming the place down. The last day i saw a gang fight in the street where bottles were being thrown and smashed, belive me i was a nervous wreck, and started crying in street, i cant belive the violence that goes on here. Not a day goes by when i dont see a fight or a screaming arguement.
Same here YR when I lived in Alex, it's really terrifying! And when you see grown men slapping and punching little kids till they about pass out...OH MY GOD
Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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Its truelly horrible laura, and really freaked me out, mostly as im alone, and im in shock for sure cause cant get my head around why they all have to be violent and resort to this ****. I think im just so use to normality where you might get the odd fight between a couple drunks, but actually i didnt see fighting till i came here and it really is everyday here on every street corner. Yes seen the smashing on faces of kids too, even on the beach, sometimes i really think these people have no feelings what so ever. Why all the aggression? Why they cant act humane? Makes me so nervous, they seem to see not quality in life at all. Life is so precious.
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Wait till you see them with knifes, or those huge long swords, and YES even guns. Whole gangs of them walking down the street.
At first I wanted to try and intervene when I saw kids being abused, but my husband told me, I could end up dead if I dared. I thought at first he was joking, but I know now he was serious.
It's really SO sad!
Posts: 3291 | From: I DO believe in Karma! | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: Domestic violence is vile,it happens everywhere regardless of faith, and although in poor countries the Law tends to be slow to deal with it, it is Society that leads the disapproval; education tends to help women and girls to demand better treatment. Domestic violence is a big problem in many devloping countries, [and amongst immigrants from those countries]. Stupid of popular newspapers to continue to portay Moslems as degenerate and violent. Would be interesting to explore various offences in regard to the perp's religion. Shall we assume that religion promotes that kind of crime? How about seeing these headlines?
'Catholic molests child'? 'Jewish banker embezzled pension fund'? 'Evangelical gang robs bank'? 'Buddhist not wearing seatbelt'?
Looks ridiculous DOESN'T IT?
Maybe the religion does not promote it but contributes to it. For example the Catholics who abuse children are the priest who are not allowed to marry. So this situation could lead to a sexually frustrated man who gets his needs met by the least resistant way; a child.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Sorry, I do not believe that paedophiles are frustrated heterosexual men. Those priests cannot hide behind the restrictions of their religion to excuse the inexcuable. Many convicted paedophiles [regardless of race or religion] deliberately pursue careers that will give them access to children. Culture and economics contributes to violence. Domestic or otherwise. In countries where women have more economic value generally, there is probably less violence against them.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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Paedophiles are sick people and I believe once you are a paedophile there is no turn-around, no cure for it. I mean how sick can men be who watch child porn on their computers or even commit sexual acts with children, sometimes very very young??? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: Sorry, I do not believe that paedophiles are frustrated heterosexual men. Those priests cannot hide behind the restrictions of their religion to excuse the inexcuable. Many convicted paedophiles [regardless of race or religion] deliberately pursue careers that will give them access to children. Culture and economics contributes to violence. Domestic or otherwise. In countries where women have more economic value generally, there is probably less violence against them.
Good points Mo, but don't you think if people feel that their religion allows something then there will be more of a tendency toward it? Wife beating for example. If the religion states that you should beat your wife then the man will feel justified in doing it.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Hmmm thinking about that, Of Gold. Will get to to ya! Have a sneaky suspicion that there's a correlation between diminished penis size and wife beating.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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Well, according to the Mufti of Egypt Sheik Ali Gum'a, "Women in some cultures are not averse to beatings. They consider it as an expression of masculinity, and as a kind of control, which she herself desires."
"I got a question from Canada. The man said: "Here, it is a crime to beat a wife, even with a toothbrush. Is this prohibition acceptable in Islam? Yes. Islam accepts that the beating of Canadian wives, in this culture and ambience... From childhood they are taught that beating women is a type of barbarism, savagery, and so on. There is nothing wrong with taking this into consideration, and adapting to society, because Islam did not command us to be aggressive towards women....
But when Allah permitted wife-beating, He permitted it to the other side of culture, which considers it as one of the means to preserve the family, and as one of the means to preserve stability."
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"They consider it as an expression of masculinity, and as a kind of control, which she herself desires."
Not much of a punishment, then. If Egyptian Muslims really want to teach their wives a lesson, they should be doing the washing up and discussing skincare products. Torture for a "traditional" woman. Posts: 1029 | Registered: Feb 2008
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Well while the rest of you are putting the world to rights, I'm off to look for that Buddhist not wearing his seat belt Posts: 918 | From: Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by yorkshire rose: there is Tina and a man aint afraid to beat his woman on the street, i have whitnessed it. And i am forever hearing men slapping the woman in the house, and her screaming the place down. The last day i saw a gang fight in the street where bottles were being thrown and smashed, belive me i was a nervous wreck, and started crying in street, i cant belive the violence that goes on here. Not a day goes by when i dont see a fight or a screaming arguement.
omg yorkie, dont you have an urge to go and say something? i know you really cant but me being me, i would march right down to that flat after he left and tell her that she can come to my house anytime he starts his sh*t. once when i was there with my ex, his sisters husband smacked her in front of the family. my eyes got wide and green and a look of rage came on my face and i was about to get up and knock him the fukk out but my ex's mother held my hand to the arm of the chair and said, 'leh'.
well i got to talkin to the sister and well, she left his ass lol:)
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by yorkshire rose: Its truelly horrible laura, and really freaked me out, mostly as im alone, and im in shock for sure cause cant get my head around why they all have to be violent and resort to this ****. I think im just so use to normality where you might get the odd fight between a couple drunks, but actually i didnt see fighting till i came here and it really is everyday here on every street corner. Yes seen the smashing on faces of kids too, even on the beach, sometimes i really think these people have no feelings what so ever. Why all the aggression? Why they cant act humane? Makes me so nervous, they seem to see not quality in life at all. Life is so precious.
because men who beat on women and kids are like that because they feel insecure...my ex used to do that sh*t...he even began to hit aleya...but never EVER would you see him fighting a MAN.
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
"my ex used to do that sh*t...he even began to hit aleya..."
Does he still do it if your daughter visits him??
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Didn't The prophet Mohammed PBUH admonish some guys, about 'beating your wives as you would a stallion camel ...' And the actual 'punishment' was restricted to a kind of symbolic tap with a cane or something. This has NOTHING to do with religion! Broken teeth, bones, vicious assaults, come on, nobody could believe it is Gods will for this stuff to go on. Incidentally, I read somewhere that 10% of women in Israel are beaten by their husbands. What does that say about Torah? Nothing.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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