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Tiger the sentenace is death in the egyptian law as far as I am aware ,,any way this is in today's paper , you will need to translate it , and let me know what senetnce this animal should get: suppose the victim was your own sister or daughter http://www.algomhuria.net.eg/algomhuria/today/fpage/detail07.aspPosts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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Bare in mind some might get death penalty and some get life sentence ,,etc according to the case itself and what happened .. was it mugging and rapping..etc
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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More for you tiger , in the evening papers,, this animal ,, been married for one month and half only ,, do you think deatch penalty is enough for him?
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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Grumman if u only knew what it feels like to be raped even by 1 person not 10, then i bet u wouldn't be here judging everything in such a superficial manner. i was never raped al7amdolilah and the raped woman is not related to me in any way, yet i feel for her and others who went through the same thing. any1 who commits a crime should be punished according to his deed. mercy is for the victim and not for the criminal.
Posts: 103 | From: cairo | Registered: Apr 2008
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el_ka, I wouldn't condon rapists by any stretch of the imagination, just the severity of the punishment it involves even if it is Egyptian law. And I do have to adult daughters by the way and if either of them were raped I'm willing to bet they both would say the death penalty is to severe. What they would say about life in prison is another story. I will ask them soon.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Gremman, do nok them about the prison penality , please ask them what penality the rapist should get in this case and what make them satisfied to feel that he got what he derved,, ask them if this animal attack them in the middle of the night and graped them and used a gun or knife in their nick and started to take their cloths piece after the other or asked them do that by themselves,, also if he started to tourcher them and been sadist person and asked them to.. shall I say more,, please give them the full pic and the big one .. also what about if he has AIDS ( do ytou conisder that killing or not .. or even any TSD) and ask them what sort of sentence he should get ,, I bet you they will say death,,
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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By the way Grumman ,, which crime you think deserves the death penalty? or do you think that death penalty should not be there at all?
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman: el_ka, I wouldn't condon rapists by any stretch of the imagination, just the severity of the punishment it involves even if it is Egyptian law. And I do have to adult daughters by the way and if either of them were raped I'm willing to bet they both would say the death penalty is to severe. What they would say about life in prison is another story. I will ask them soon.
u can ask ur daughters all u want till the sun rises but they can not give u an honest answer unless one of them was raped....sure anyone can say too strong of a punishment..but until u have been raped by a nasty hairy smelly man that stinks and u can never forget it.. its just yr opinions...i am sorry but i do agree with the death penalty y should be be raped while they are living off us in prison for free???for the rest of our lives?
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Another question Mr Gunmman ,, is there any guarantee that this rapist would not rape another person when he goes free from prison .. do you think the prison would be a good lesson for him to stop him from raping again and again? well ,, did not you hear before about the serial sex offenders?
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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''Gremman, do nok them about the prison penality , please ask them what penality the rapist should get in this case and what make them satisfied to feel that he got what he derved,...''
I've already asked the younger daughter who is 33 years old. She said if violence wasn't involved but just intimidation then prison time will be sufficient. She didn't say how long nor did I ask. This daughter however isn't as aggressive as the older one, who is 35. Her views may be different.
''...ask them if this animal attack them in the middle of the night and graped them and used a gun or knife in their nick and started to take their cloths piece after the other or asked them do that by themselves,, also if he started to tourcher them and been sadist person and asked them to.. shall I say more,, please give them the full pic and the big one .. also what about if he has AIDS ( do ytou conisder that killing or not .. or even any TSD) and ask them what sort of sentence he should get ,, I bet you they will say death,''
south_london_male you just added an entirely different set of parameters into the mix with that paragraph. It has shifted emotional content to the degree that it has nothing to do with the original and that is if there was no violence, just verbal intimidation, should a man be put to death for rape.
''By the way Grumman ,, which crime you think deserves the death penalty?''
Premeditated murder.
''or do you think that death penalty should not be there at all?''
At one time I was for the death penalty but have since adopted a centrist position simply because some law enforcement agencies in all societies have a tendency to make an arrest at all costs. If the person arrested is hastily dealt with in some societies, even after a trial, and is put to death what can be said once new information comes to light at a later date that may change particulars in the case. Considering that 'justice' may be hastily used to satisfy some unbridled anger from otherwise sound minded individuals and in view of what I just said then no, I am not for the death penalty as a yes let's do it. Then again the person calling for quick execution may, or could be an executioner themselves.
''Another question Mr Gunmman ,, is there any guarantee that this rapist would not rape another person when he goes free from prison...''
So the idea here is kill him just to make sure he doesn't have those tendencies after having served maybe 20 years in jail? Along similar lines why won't Saudi Arabia execute thieves immediately instead of lopping off a hand or two--just so they won't be able to steal again even if fitted with prosthetics (artificial hand) considering they may have tendencies to steal again somewhere down the line.
''do you think the prison would be a good lesson for him to stop him from raping again and again?''
This works for some not all. It's all about human nature.
''well ,, did not you hear before about the serial sex offenders?''
Yes there are serial sex offenders. And once caught they should be removed from society. Now, if this serial rapist is also a serial/rapist killer then yes he should get the other side of my centrist position which is death.
tina kamal says, ''u can ask ur daughters all u want till the sun rises but they can not give u an honest answer unless one of them was raped.''
So my daughter has to be raped to let her ''true'' feelings be known? If my one daughter felt the way you do why is it you think she would lie about it. She has nothing to gain by that. All she had to say all men should be executed for rape, thereby giving your position added meaning.
''...but until u have been raped by a nasty hairy smelly man that stinks and u can never forget it.''
Did you seek professional counseling to try and rid you of your ''never forget it'' attitude? I'm not being flip Tina, just curious.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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well like i said yes a woman has to have been raped to know what the true feelings and emotional streese that would occur after the rape.. i dont care what noone says u cant judge a rape unless u have been there...u can ask a million women how they feel about rapists and 99% of them women that have been raped would say the death penalty would be great....i am sorry but thats the facts real life....i have never saught help cas i wasnt sure how to tell my family.. for one they are prejudice as hell againt an color other than white.. my dad would have beat me if he ever knew a black man had raped me when i was 15.... so it took me 20 yrs just to tell anyone....ever rape victim has a different situation of how to handle their situations but its all the same out come we were raped... if they came to me know and said they found him and would kill him cas of what he has done to me i would turn to him on death row and say good for u and sucks to be u for what u have done to me.....
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Well I'm truly sorry you had to endure something no woman should have to go through.
Tina, why is it you think your dad would have beat you because you were raped by a black man. I'm sorry kid but I can't see how this makes any sense at all. Are you suggesting that if the man was white your dad wouldn't have thought about beating you? And why would he do that anyway instead of giving you a hug and crying with you. I'm sensing a lot more to the story but we can end it now.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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cas my dad was very prajudice when i was growing up.. very heartless.. thats y i was on the streets in the first place... but enough of that.. u dont know southern people some are cruel and heartless and hate any color peron or persons that are not white.. have u not heard of the kkk well lets say my family probably would have been in it if i was from alabama.. anyways none of my husbands are allowed in my sisters home cas they are mexican.. thats just a small detail of y i moved to iowa....
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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thank u but plz i dont need pity or sorry or none feeling sorry for me i am fine now its been so long.. and i can just see my dad turning in his grave since i am in love with an egyptian ...hehehehe noone had a perfect child hood we all have some issues...what ever doesnt kill us only makes us stronger...
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Grumman: your daughter said :(She said if violence wasn't involved but just intimidation then prison time will be sufficient) so that means in very clear words that if violence was involved then death penality should be there or am I putting words in her mouth? also even she said what she said without being having this bad expeirence herself,, I would like to know if she is going to change her mind if she has the expeirence in real ( well I hope that does not happen to her any way as I am sure that will destroy her life )
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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rape only destroys someones life if they allow the rapist to win...my life was not destroyed by that fooker it only made me more cautious and aware of my surroundings...now some people will live a shell of a life and hide for yrs before they can trust again. i guess i am just emotionally stronger then some.. my life was not destroyed only diverted...
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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I did not mean you here Tina ,, (When I mentioned to destroy her life ), I meant most of the cases of the raped women.. it turns them to some thing else.. or some one else,, and many of them hate to live after and hate others..etc
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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south_london_male, you said to me: ''your daughter said: 'She said if violence wasn't involved but just intimidation then prison time will be sufficient'so that means in very clear words that if violence was involved then death penality should be there or am I putting words in her mouth?''.
Fair enough. I will ask her, and hopefully the older daughter will come by the house today sometime and participate too.
When I asked the younger daughter this the other day she was leaving the house with the grandkids so she didn't have the time to be stimulated for further thought.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Tina Kamal says: ''rape only destroys someones life if they allow the rapist to win...my life was not destroyed by that fooker it only made me more cautious and aware of my surroundings...now some people will live a shell of a life and hide for yrs before they can trust again. i guess i am just emotionally stronger then some.. my life was not destroyed only diverted''.
Well said Tina, well said. Therein lies the answer, all of it.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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I asked my younger daughter a couple of hours ago and she said if violence was involved then prison with solitary confinement. She says put him in a darkened room for life. I also said to her her feelings, thoughts and comments have nothing to do with me so speak your mind. I believe what she told me. I have interacted with this young woman all of her 33 years and I feel somewhat accurate in saying her comments reflect what she feels, rather than appeasing someone else, namely me.
I still haven't talked to my more aggressive daughter but I will.
So, by now you should be getting the picture from this: ''rape only destroys someones life if they allow the rapist to win...my life was not destroyed by that fooker it only made me more cautious and aware of my surroundings...now some people will live a shell of a life and hide for yrs before they can trust again. i guess i am just emotionally stronger then some.. my life was not destroyed only diverted.''Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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alot of rape victims are more or less drama queens unless there was sever violence.. in my cas there was no violence thank god...i was not harmed in any way only raped..which in itself was bad enough..but alot of these women claim the victims all their lives for peoples pity... which is bull they should go on with their lives they are still alive they were not killed.. u dont have to forgive or forget just go on....u cant live in the past forever or u will not have a future
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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south_london_male wrote: ''I did not mean you here Tina ,, (When I mentioned to destroy her life ), I meant most of the cases of the raped women.. it turns them to some thing else.. or some one else,, and many of them hate to live after and hate others..etc''
Are you specifically referring to a certain group of women or is this a blanket statement for all cultures? If it is Arab culture you are referencing how is there any way to know these women are sensing a need to appease some men in a very restrictive, male dominated society? Couldn't it also be these same women you refer too just want to get on with their lives, as Tina says, but instead defer to the men, thinking that the men will disown them if they don't show near suicidal tendencies for events they have no control over...like rape, just to give the man ego-inflating but misplaced importance?
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Did you have a chance to ask your other daughter? and if yes what was the answer?
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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Dunno if anyone else has pointed this out, but a death sentence for rapists may lead to rape victims [primary witness nb] being killed. I do not condone the death sentence in any circumstances. we are not put on earth to judge who is fit to live or die.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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I had seen my oldest daughter a few times since my last post but until a few minutes ago I didn't have the opportunity to talk to her.
Straight up I asked her what should be the sentence in rape. She says prison time. I then asked her what if violence was involved. She hesitated somewhat and said that would be up to the courts to decide. I pressed her further and asked should the violent rapist be condemned to death. She emphatically said ''no, no, no!''.
Now here is her aggressive part. She says if a man broke into her house with whatever undetermined intent she will have to assume he means her harm and shoot him dead.
''Dunno if anyone else has pointed this out, but a death sentence for rapists may lead to rape victims [primary witness nb] being killed.''
Good point. In today's newspaper in an eastern U.S. state a prisoner climbed a medium security fence and escaped. The man was in jail for killing his foreman and there were witnesses to the crime. (Obviously not rape but witnesses to a murder.)
The authorities immediately gave protection to the witnesses to the crime until the escaped convict is captured.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Grumman: thanks for the reply now.. If you go home ,, find a man tied your wife and your daughters and was raping them one after the other ,, what would you do to him? would you stand there watching,, as Tina's boy friend did ,,, would you ask him to wait and till you call the police to arrest him ? suppose he has a gun in his hand ,,also what would be your feeling if you arrived home and saw him standing there after finishing raping them? what would your reaction as a man (who should be proud of himself as a man) ? I do not think it is culture issue here , it is human feeling ,, so I would like to know your feeling if this happen to you?
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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Great news,, in tomorrow's papers , in south Egypt the court has sent a woman free after she killed the man who tried to rape her at her home, she admitted the killing but it was considered as self defense,, Tiger do you still think the legal system in Egypt is not ok? I think this is great decision,, try to translate that:
رغم اعترافها..حفظ التحقيق مع ربة المنزل قاتلة جارها بقنا النيابة: المتهمة گانت في حالة دفاع شرعي عن شرفها! قنا عبداللاه محمد: فجرت نيابة شمال قنا الكلية مفاجأة في القضية المتهمة فيها سهير احمد محمود (ربة منزل) بقتل جارها السائق فوزي حارس عمدا وتمزيق جسده واشعال النار في جثته بالفرن البلدي بمنزلها بمركز دشنا.. امرت النيابة بحفظ القضية باشراف المستشار محمد عطية المحامي العام لنيابات شمال قنا الكلية. رغم اعتراف المتهمة بالجريمة فقد اكدت مذكرة الحفظ التي اعدها معتز السيد الزهيري رئيس النيابة ان المتهمة كانت في حالة دفاع شرعي عن نفسها وشرفها وان قيام المتهم بالتسلل الي غرفة نومها ومحاولة هتك عرضها واغتصابها يوجب قيامها بالدفاع عن نفسها وانها حاولت الهرب منه الا انه اغلق الباب عليها مما جعلها ترتكب جريمتها .. واضافت النيابة في مبررات الحفظ انه لاوجه لاقامة الدعوي الجنائية ضد المتهمة رغم اعترافها في تحقيقات الشرطة والنيابة وأمام قاضي المعارضات
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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If you go home ,, find a man tied your wife and your daughters and was raping them one after the other ,, what would you do to him? would you stand there watching,, as Tina's boy friend did ,,, would you ask him to wait and till you call the police to arrest him ?''
answer
If I had a gun I would point it at him and tell him to remain stationary until I called the police. If he moved toward me in a threatening manner I would shoot him dead.
Second part.
''suppose he has a gun in his hand ,,also what would be your feeling if you arrived home and saw him standing there after finishing raping them? what would your reaction as a man (who should be proud of himself as a man)? I do not think it is culture issue here , it is human feeling ,, so I would like to know your feeling if this happen to you?''
answer
If I knew he had a gun in his hand when I entered the room then my immediate decision would be to shoot him dead. It will have had nothing to do with ''proud of himself as a man''. My decision to fire my weapon would be based on one thing: the rapist would likely use the gun on me and my wife and daughter if I confronted him and he had the upper hand.
Do you know why some laws in the U.S. are strict? Because of the very same thing you are talking about: shoot first ask questions later. This is why I say there are some circumstances where you simply should not shoot a man in cold blood unless you feel imminent danger from him.
Let me ask you something. Given your above scenario with the rapist in the room with your wife and daughter and neither of them were harmed physically in the rape, other than emotionally of course, and he doesn't have a gun and his hands are raised in surrender will you shoot him even if he begs for his life? Further, what if, in a surprise moment your wife asks why did you shoot him when he was surrendering. Are you certain your wife wouldn't ask you that? Would that lessen her in your eyes considering you may have felt you were defending her honor and that you felt she would want you to kill the man even if she actually didn't?
Please note Tina's rapist said he had a gun. If he did then he immobilized her boyfriend with the threat of death.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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If you go home ,, find a man tied your wife and your daughters and was raping them one after the other ,, what would you do to him? would you stand there watching,, as Tina's boy friend did ,,, would you ask him to wait and till you call the police to arrest him ?''
These are hypothetical questions. No one really can know how they would react in this situation. IMHO this is a completely different situation.
What we have before us are men who committed a crime against another human being. They are now confined where they can do no one else harm. The question at hand is do we now preform another crime and commit a premeditated murder?
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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Furthermore what about a young promiscuous lady who has sex with one guy but the very next one, during sex, is considered not a suitable party yet he won't give up until the act is finished. She yells rape during the act, he doesn't respond. Is he guilty now simply because a few seconds will have elapsed between consent and dissent? Any justice in that? [/QB]
YES He is guilty of rape if a woman says NO at anytime before or DURING the act.The fact she is promiscuos is irrelevant.
IMO chemical castration is the answer for any rapist anywere,unfortunately it won't happen.
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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Kalila*, if sex is consensual and suddenly wants to be terminated by the woman during the act why is it rape if the act itself may well be terminated a few seconds later. So the woman yells rape. To whom? No witnesses just the two participants. Is this a good case for a lawyer or one to be thrown out of court simply because the evidence of ''stop!'' is heard by just the two participants. You make this sound as though sex will be an onging affair, all day, all night. If so then your ''stop'' may have more substance.
If the woman is promiscuous it will definitely have a bearing in a court of law given the situation just described, at least in America.
You said, ''IMO chemical castration is the answer for any rapist anywere,unfortunately it won't happen''
You are right that will not happen in America.
Since you said chemical castration would you like to watch this if it were allowed? Would it give you satisfaction to witness the horrible physical pain the rapist would go through even though you didn't go through it yourself when you were raped? What if the rapist were your former boyfriend and never gave any other woman any problem at all until he raped you. Yet, in your previous relationship with him he was a very rewarding person to be with. My point is all rapists are not the type of low-life usually associated with rape, that is, violent men. That's why civilized societies have prisons, to imprison malcontents who can't control their impulses.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Grumman: To be honestg I find it vert hard to understand what are you trying to defend all the time here ,, I have feeling that you yourself was subject for death sentnce one day , or may be you been rapist !!! am I onthe right track here? the way you are defending such animals makes you look as you were defending personal issue or sitution!! and who said that those soicties who imprison the rapist are civalised ones? whos said that what USA do or enforce as LAW is the civalised style? in most of the world's eyes USA is not a civalised country so sure all the LAWS there would not be civalised!!! Please do not take that persoanl to defend USA or the LAWS there ,, only consider that USA as not got any civalisation,, how old is USA by the way? 300 years or more or less? so most of the countries which have civalisation has death penalties ,,well may be you like to argue for the sake of argument ,, that would be better then than feeling that you been rapist one day ( whish I have strong feeling about it now)
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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It does not matter if the rapist is in a relationship with the victim or he drags her into a alley,promiscuity does not come into it are you saying she deserved it because she is promiscuous? a victim of rape has the right to say no at ANY time, in a relationship or not.this is were the law differs between our countries, it is harder to prove in court in this situation i agree. rape is about control and not the sex act itself. I have seen rape victims with extreme physical injuries as well as pshycological and some of these women never recover from them. yes put the rapist in prison and rehabilitate him it does not work in some cases and they get out to reoffend what then?
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman: If the woman is promiscuous it will definitely have a bearing in a court of law given the situation just described, at least in America.
So if a woman is promiscuous she has no right to say no? What a great system then. Men can have sex with hundreds of women no one lifts even an eye brow but if a woman does that...well I just hate this kind of crap. And the western world is screaming how equal women and men are, BS!
Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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FYI Actually, chemical castration does not involve any pain at all. Can probably be achieved with a hormone patch these days. Some rapists, having been diagnosed with an unnaturally uncontrollable sex drive [or at least used it as a defence]have opted for chemical castration in return for a reduced sentence. Holland I think.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: FYI Actually, chemical castration does not involve any pain at all. Can probably be achieved with a hormone patch these days. Some rapists, having been diagnosed with an unnaturally uncontrollable sex drive [or at least used it as a defence]have opted for chemical castration in return for a reduced sentence. Holland I think.
which is why imo it should be used for ALL RAPISTS seems to me some men who are not rapists don't take the word NO to mean NO Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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oooooh dangerous road to go down; What next, chop off the hands of shoplifters? Rape is awful, life shattering, but incarceration for a long time, sharing a cell with a big lonely guy called Bubba is as far as I would want to go. Anyway, there IS a 'sex offender treatment programme' which does have very good results. Rehabilitation, not just revenge.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
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yes it is a dangerous road but its just my opinion and will never happen will it?
Posts: 3945 | From: ' Res Contr ' Amor non es guirens, lai on sos poders s'atura | Registered: Dec 2007
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Mo Ning Min E, Thank you for curing me of my ignorance on chemical castration. I don't follow the details on rapist punishment nor murderers and as a result I fell victim to geographical location punishment and what that may have meant.
south_london_male wrote: ''Grumman: To be honestg I find it vert hard to understand what are you trying to defend all the time here.''
If you reread and absorb what I've been explaining to you from the start you wouldn't be asking me why I appear to be defending rape.
''I have feeling that you yourself was subject for death sentnce one day , or may be you been rapist !!! am I onthe right track here?''
Sorry south_london_male, you can't make a murderer nor a rapist out of me. Please try to control your projections. You are very revealing in your comments about yourself, and yet I do understand your human nature in terms of why you say the things you do. You are trapped by your own demons.
''And who said that those soicties who imprison the rapist are civalised ones?''
The society that says it.
''Please do not take that persoanl to defend USA or the LAWS there ,, only consider that USA as not got any civalisation,, how old is USA by the way? 300 years or more or less?''
About 220 years since it was official.
''well may be you like to argue for the sake of argument''
If you consider intellectual stimulation as something to be ignored then your argument has meaning to you. Not me however.
''...that would be better then than feeling that you been rapist one day ( whish I have strong feeling about it now).
So you are losing an argument everytime you post yet you still cling to that. Your demons are piling up.
Kalila says: ''It does not matter if the rapist is in a relationship with the victim or he drags her into a alley,promiscuity does not come into it are you saying she deserved it because she is promiscuous?''
On promiscuity, no Kalila that is not what I'm saying. Read the following from me again.
''...if sex is consensual and suddenly wants to be terminated by the woman during the act why is it rape if the act itself may well be terminated a few seconds later. So the woman yells rape. To whom? No witnesses just the two participants. Is this a good case for a lawyer or one to be thrown out of court simply because the evidence of ''stop!'' is heard by just the two participants. You make this sound as though sex will be an onging affair, all day, all night. If so then your ''stop'' may have more substance.
''If the woman is promiscuous it will definitely have a bearing in a court of law given the situation just described, at least in America.''
''a victim of rape has the right to say no at ANY time, in a relationship or not.'''
Well Kalila if the lady is being raped why wouldn't she say no. But in consensual sex and she yells rape within a few seconds, even though it may be over by then for some men the courts may have something to say about whether this is rape or it isn't, especially if the woman is promiscuous.
Then Kalila says: ''it is harder to prove in court in this situation i agree.''
Thank you.
''rape is about control and not the sex act itself.'
Rape is about control because the sex act is the result of that control. If there was no sex as a result then why would there be rape.
''I have seen rape victims with extreme physical injuries as well as pshycological and some of these women never recover from them.'''
I have no issue here because undoubtedly it's true.
''yes put the rapist in prison and rehabilitate him it does not work in some cases and they get out to reoffend what then?''
Yes there are repeat offenders once released and the law should see to it that much stiffer penalties are enacted. If the rapist kills once released and the court sentences him to death after capture then so be it. However, you can't execute a man because you think he may rape again, as 'male' sees it.
cloudberry asks:
''So if a woman is promiscuous she has no right to say no?'''
She does have the right to say no as already noted within the confines of context.
''Men can have sex with hundreds of women no one lifts even an eye brow but if a woman does that...well I just hate this kind of crap. And the western world is screaming how equal women and men are, BS!''
But this has nothing to do with rape, just promiscuity and the perception of morality. And what you say should be applied across the board but it isn't. Men have always set the standards and some women have too when they say a woman is loose, even if in a hush-hush sense. In western society promiscuity is viewed as an undesirable characteristic to a large extent, including myself. Conversely I have never lent myself to male promiscuity. I don't work that way. Never have. These men have nothing to offer a woman.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Here isthe latest,, according to the legal people , yes the Egyptian Law gives life senetnce in prsion for any one who kidnaps a woman ,, and if the kdinapped was combined with rape then it is death senteance,, all the people from all levels been asked in Egypt were happy for the decision ,, you need to translate this articel, it is in today;s papers بعد إحالة عشرة متهمين للمفتي في جريمة اغتصاب : رجال القانون: ردع للجناة .. وتحقيق لاستقرار الأمن بالمجتمع الحكم أفضل وسيلة للقصاص .. وزجر لكل من يفكر في ارتكاب أي جريمة رمضان حنضل اسماعيل عيد في سابقة هي الأولي من نوعها في تاريخ أحكام القضاء.. أصدرت محكمة جنايات كفر الشيخ حكما رادعا.. في قضية روعت الأمن وأشاعت الفزع بين الأهالي. وعاقبت عشرة متهمين في هذه القضية باحالة أوراقهم إلي فضيلة المفتي. فصول هذه الجريمة تتلخص في أن 11 مجرماً شاهدوا "سيدة" وهي تنشر الغسيل. صعدوا إلي شقتها.. واقتادوها بالقوة إلي منطقة زراعية نائية حيث تبادلوا الاعتداء عليها .. وقامت الشرطة بضبط تسعة متهمين بينهم حدث لايعاقب بالأعدام بينما هرب أثنان وتم إحالة المتهمين للمحاكمة وإحيل أوراق عشرة للمفتي وتحدد يوم 4 مارس القادم لاصدار الحكم . هذا الحكم الرادع أثار تساؤلات حول جرائم الاغتصاب التي أثارت القلق بين الأسر خوفا علي بناتها وسيداتها. كما قال رجال القانون والاجتماع أن هذا الحكم يحقق الأمن والاطمئنان لكل أفراد المجتمع ويردع كل من تسول له نفسه الاقدام علي مثل هذا العمل السييء ويدرك في نفس الوقت أن حبل المشنقة في انتظاره. استطلع "دفتر أحوال" آراء الخبراء من رجال القضاء وعلم النفس في البداية قال المستشار رفعت السيد رئيس محكمة جنايات القاهرة ان الاحالة للمفتي تنبيء عن اتجاه إرادة المحكمة إلي تطبيق عقوبة الاعدام وهنا يتعين وجوب ان يستطلع رأي المفتي قبل النطق بالحكم رغم أن رأيه استشاريا ويجوز للمحكمة أن تعدل عن حكم الاعدام سواء وافق المفتي علي الاعدام من عدمه. وأكد أن مثل هذا الحكم نوع من أنواع الردع أو الزجر العام للمواطنين حتي لايفكر من يقترف مثل هذه الجرائم أكثر من مرة في اتيانها لأنها قد تكلفه حياته وهو يمثل وقاية وعلاجاً. أشار إلي أن انتشار هذه الجرائم يتتبع تشديد العقوبة حيث ان هذه الجرائم تشكل مجموعة من الجرائم وهي الخطف وهتك العرض والاعتداء علي الحرمات وايزاء النفس وخلط الانساب. وطالما أنه اشترك في واقعة الخطف من قام بأي دور رئيسي في الجريمة أصبح الفاعل الأصيل في الجريمة ويمكن معاقبة الشريك الذي يسهم في الجريمة سواء بالتحريض أو الاتفاق أو المساعدة بنفس العقوبة طالما يعلم بها وأشار إلي المادة 290 ونصها في العقوبات لمرتكبي هذه الجريمة. ردع لكل مجرم أما المستشار مصطفي جاويش رئيس محكمة أمن الدولة العليا رئيس محكمة جنايات المنصورة فيؤكد أن الحكم اصابه صحيح القانون واستند للمادة 290 من قانون العقوبات قائلا لكل من خطف بالتحايل أو الاكراه بنفسه أو بواسطة غيره يعاقب بالسجن المؤبد ويحكم علي فاعل هذه الجناية بالاعدام إذا اقترن بها جناية المخطوفة بغير رضاها.. فان علة التجريم هي الاعتداء علي العرض. "الجاني" هنا يكره المجني عليها علي سلوك جنسي لم تتحه إليه إرادتها فصادر حريتها ومن ثم كان الاغتصاب أشد جرائم الاعتداء علي العرض.. و كذلك الاعتداء علي حصانة جسمها وطالما أن "الجاني" انصرف إلي الجريمة وهو الاتصال الجنسي بانعدام الرضا الذي يشمل حالات الاكراه ماديا أو معنويا فان الجريمة وهي الفعل قد وقع بالصلة الجنسية. قصاص عادل وقال المستشار الدكتور أسامة جامع رئيس محكمة استئناف القاهرة إن المادة 290 من قانون العقوبات هي التي تؤكد علي الاعدام لمثل هذه الجريمة البشعة ولو أكثر من عشرين شخصا ارتكبوا هذا يمكن اعدامهم وأن الشرع يجيز القصاص لأكثر من شخص إذا ارتكب جريمة عقوبتها الاعدام ولو كان المجني عليه واحد. أكد المستشار فاروق اسماعيل رئيس محكمة جنايات القاهرة أن المادة 290 من قانون العقوبات التي تشير إلي كل من يخطف أنثي يعاقب بالسجن المؤبد إذا اقترن بموقعتها بدون رضاها يمكن أن يحكم عليه بالاعدام.. وان كل من يتواجد علي مسرح الجريمة يعامل كفاعل أصلي وبالتالي تكون عقوبتهم واحدة حسب ما تري المحكمة من وقائع الدعوي وأدلة ثبوتها. وهذا الحكم يمثل قمة الردع لمن تسول له نفسه ارتكاب مثل هذه الجرائم البشعة لأنها من الجرائم التي تروع المجتمع وتصيبه في مأمنه ويمثل تعدياً صارخاً علي الحرمات. قالت الدكتورة سوسن فايد أستاذ علم النفس الاجتماعي بمركز البحوث الاجتماعية والجنائية: أن هذا الحكم من الجانب ا لشرعي يؤكد الردع القوي حفاظا علي أمن المجتمع.. فضلا عن أنه لم يكن ظاهرة وان الأهالي لم يتم الاعلان عن تلك الجرائم خوفا علي الفضيحة والسمعة التي تلحقهم.. و من الجانب القانوني.. فان قوة تطبيق النص القانوني يحفظ الضبط الاجتماعي خاصة مع تراجع القيم المعنوية المنبثقة من روح الدين ويجب ألا يتهاون المجتمع مع من يريد فعل هذا الجرم وخرق القيم. فضلا علي أنه يؤثر علي أمن النفس للفرد والمجتمع وهذا يعد مسئولية اجتماعية يجب علي جميع المؤسسات بالدولة الاهتمام والاعتناء بها.. و يعد هذا الحكم أحد الاجراءات الواجبة للحماية. زعزعة الاستقرار وحول آراء رجل الشارع في هذه الجرائم البشعة أكد محمد محمد موسي النادي رئيس لجنة التعليم بالمجلس المحلي بحلوان أن عملية الاغتصاب من أبشع الجرائم التي تهز مشاعر المجتمع ويروع أمنهم وهذه الجريمة يجب أن تكون عقوبتها الاعدام وتنفيذه علنا حتي يستريح ضمير المجتمع ويأمن الرجل علي زوجته في طريقها للعمل وعلي "ابنته" المتوجهة للمدرسة. أما ماجد إبراهيم عبدالله "مزارع" فقال: جريمة الاغتصاب تساوي القتل لأنها اختراق للشرف الذي هو أغلي شئ للمرأة العفيفة التي إذا اعتدي عليها أقبلت علي الانتحار باعتبار هذا أشرف لها فإن من يرتكب هذا الجرم لابد أن يعدم حتي يأمن الجميع علي أسرته. الاثار النفسية وقال شعبان سعيد المحامي بالنقض بأن هذا الحكم يعتبر أقصي عقوبة يمكن للقاضي أن يقضي بها وليس بمقدوره أن يقضي بأكثر منها لأن سلب الحق في الحياة هو أقصي عقوبة لكنه لم يكن رادعا للمجني عليها وذويها فهو حكم غير رادع لأن الخزي والعار يظل متعلقا بهم إلي اخر حياتهم وكي يكون رادعاَ للمجني عليها لابد من تكثيف أمني بالشارع ولابد من الاهتمام من رجال النجدة بالبلاغات والحضور فور اغلاق سماعة التليفون حتي يمنع ارتكاب الجريمة أساسا والشيء الأكثر ردعا هو أن المتهم نفسه يعلم أن الشرطة سوف تتدخل لمنعه من ارتكاب الجريمة. وقال عادل راشد عبدالرازق "موظف" ان هذا الحكم يعيد الي المجتمع المصري أمنه واستقراره لأن مثل هذه الجرائم انتشرت بصورة مخيفة وبالتالي فان توقيع هذه العقوبة ردعا لمثل هؤلاء. محمد الحسيني المحامي بالنقض: أكد أن المتهمين العشرة الذين ارتكبوا مثل هذا الجرم فهم نفس الفعل الواحد وقد ارتكبوا جنايتين هما الخطف والاغتصاب وهنا يحق للقاضي تشديد العقوبة حتي الاعدام. * محمد السيد نوح المحامي بالنقض أكد أن حكم الاعدام علي كل من اغتصب انثي فهو حكم عادل ورادع لحفظ الكيان الأسري للمجتمع المصري الذي بني علي نسيج يختلف عن باقي العالم لأن المصريين يرفضون ما هو شاذ وقبيح وأن مثل هذه الجرائم في مصر لابد من الضرب بيد من حديد علي الجناة فيها حتي ينصلح حال المجتمع والاعلان بالاعدام عن مثل تلك الجرائم وتغليظ العقوبة يمنع الجريمة لأن مرتكبها جبان يخشي أن يكون ضحية نزوة شهوانية تمر بعد عدة دقائق ولذا فان حكم الاعدام هو الانسب في مثل هذه الجريمة.
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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Another article,, the fmailies of those gulty one are askin to make the senetnce only death ,, and the good thing happend any way that all the crimes aganist any women in this town has been stoopoed since this sentnce and even people stooped fighting witc each other ,, this because they felt the law can be enforced and people can get puncheed hardly if they break the law,, this is really very good god news, and that proves that the senetnce was very good decison and very aducate ,, at least in religious society , for both muslims and christians,, other libral sociteis ( that who claim they are civalised ,, then then need to be ashamed of themselves )here is the article: .. وأهالي المتهمين.. يطالبون بالرحمة الأمهات: نتمني تخفيف الحكم.. لأنهم "عيال"!! كفر الشيخ عبدالقادر الشوافي: التقت "دفتر أحوال" بالعديد من الامهات واسر المتهمين العشرة الذين تمت احالة اوراقهم مؤخرا إلي فضيلة المفتي تمهيداً لاعدامهم شنقا. قالت الامهات ومن بينهن هانم فتوح العبد والدة احد المتهمين.. نطالب بتخفيف الحكم علي ابنائنا العشرة والاكتفاء بالسجن فقط لأنهم جميعا شباب طائش في سن المراهقة فلابد من النظر اليهم بعين الشفقة والرحمة والانسانية. طالبت الامهات فضيلة مفتي الجمهورية النظر بعين الرحمة لهؤلاء الشبان وتخفيف الحكم الصادر ضدهم من الاعدام شنقا إلي السجن لأنهم جميعا "عيال" لم يدركوا حجم ما فعلوه حيث أنهم في سن المراهقة.. فلابد من النظر إليهم بعين الشفقة والرحمة. تسبب هذا الحكم الرادع في حالة من الخوف بين شباب محافظة كفر الشيخ وخصوصا المقيمين بقري الحمزاوي وابوطبل والقرضا المجاورين لمكان الحادث حيث انعدمت المشاجرات بين بعضهم البعض وقلت معاكسة الفتيات بالطرق العامة.. وطلب خطباء المساجد من اولياء الامور تربية اولادهم تربية حسنة ورعايتهم حتي لا ينساقوا وراء الشبان المنحرفين حتي لا يكون مصيرهم مثل الشبان العشرة
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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Cairo, 5 March (AKI) - Ten men have been sentenced to death by hanging in Egypt, after being convicted of raping an 18 year-old woman two years ago.
The death sentence by hanging was handed down on Wednesday by a court in the northern governorate of Kafr el-Sheikh. Only eight of the sentenced men appeared before the court, while two others allegedly involved in the gang rape are still fugitives.
A 15-year-old youth who collaborated in the attack was sentenced to 15 years in jail. During the court proceedings, police were forced to intervene to stop protests by family members of the accused.
The court was told the ten men, who were all armed, raided a home in 2006 during the night and threatened all the family members.
After firing a few shots in the air, they kidnapped a woman and took her to an open field, where she was repeatedly raped for three hours until she lost consciousness.
Egyptian daily al-Ahram said the barbaric attack was aimed at punishing the woman's husband, who had reportedly refused to marry the sister of the group's leader.
The judge said that the court had chosen such a severe punishment because it learned about "the necessity to eradicate the roots of sin, and cleanse society."
The court's decision to impose the death sentence, however, will be sent to the Egyptian mufti who must then ratify it before it is carried out.
The last execution in Egypt took place in 2006. In December 2008 the Egypt's general assembly voted against a moratorium on the death penalty.
How high is the procentage that these hangings will actually never be carried out??
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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The 10 of them need to be raped by a filthy toilet brush for 3 straight hours, then forced to watch Moga Comedy channel till they commit suicide!
Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mo Ning Min E: Dunno if anyone else has pointed this out, but a death sentence for rapists may lead to rape victims [primary witness nb] being killed.
excellent point.
We were hearing yesterday of a 7 year old girl from Minya who was killed by the school cleaner for her gold earrings that he ripped from her ears. When the police asked why he killed her he said that'she would be able to identify him.
Another horror story involved 2 teenage girls who were in a car crash and one of them was unconscious and ended up waking to one of her 'rescuers' ripping the rings from her fingers. She said that she wanted to die because of the pain, as she heard voices all around her but someone tugging at her hands!! She said she was so glad he managed to get the rings off because of the pain he was causing and because of what he might 'end up doing' if he didn't manage to get them off by pulling them over her knuckles!! Minya again Posts: 3416 | Registered: Oct 2007
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i am glad they are being hung.. i hope the woman they raped can eventually get her life back.. some women never recover from a rape,,,
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Azhar Grand Sheikh Allows Organs Transplant of Ten Rapists after Execution
By Ahmed al-Behiri 17/ 3/ 2009
Al-Azhar Grand Sheikh Mohamed Sayed Tantawi has issued a fatwa (religious opinion) allowing the organs transplant of the ten criminals who were sentenced to death after raping a woman in Kafr el-Sheikh governorate. Tantawi said the organs could be transplanted even before getting the defendants' approval. The fatwa sparked great controversy among scholars.
In exclusives to Al-Masry Al-Youm, Tantawi said: "Those criminals have unmercifully dealt with the raped woman without any sort of compassion. They committed their crime in spite of she kissed their legs and beseeched them not to do. Therefore, we legitimately have the right to get their organs after execution and transplant them to the needy patients."
Tantawi's statements have caused considerable controversy among scholars, who were divided into two groups of supporters and opponents. Abdel Rahman al-Adawi, member of the Islamic Research Academy, has voiced full support for the fatwa, adding that it is inconsistent with the provisions of the Sharia (Islamic law) because the person sentenced to death does not have any right in his body.
Ahmad Omar Hashim, Chairman of the People's Assembly (parliament) Religious Committee, has rejected Tantawi's fatwa because the Sharia says that and approval should be got from the person before transplanting his organs, warning that Egypt will turn into "another China" If we brought this fatwa into action.
China allows the transplant of organs of those who are sentenced to death without getting their approval in advance.
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What a great system then. Men can have sex with hundreds of women no one lifts even an eye brow but if a woman does that...well I just hate this kind of crap. And the western world is screaming how equal women and men are, BS!
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