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That's pure fear mongering. Yes the economy is in a weakened state and at the same time there's great potential for recovery and growth.
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Yeah but currently the Egyptians can't get their economy back on track without foreign financial help (hello even the Saudis now lending $4 billion to you guys - I am just wondering what do they want back for their nice gesture btw?).
And as many point out the ongoing strikes and demonstrations are only further damaging Egypt's economy. But I guess as long as foreigners lending a helping hand Egyptians do as they want to. Obviously life hasn't gotten hard enough yet.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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And that is exactly the point. The fear mongering is aimed at scaring investors and tourists away so that things get "hard enough" and Egyptians bend over to the masters of the new world order.
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Yeah but currently the Egyptians can't get their economy back on track without foreign financial help (hello even the Saudis now lending $4 billion to you guys - I am just wondering what do they want back for their nice gesture btw?).
And as many point out the ongoing strikes and demonstrations are only further damaging Egypt's economy. But I guess as long as foreigners lending a helping hand Egyptians do as they want to. Obviously life hasn't gotten hard enough yet.
The UK has had grants from Europe to work on housing projects in poverty stricken areas. Nobody talks to us like the poor relation. Where do you think Germany would be now without a little help after WWII? We've all had bailouts over the years:
No it's not nice, it's just a fact of life. Get off your high horse and stop being so damned rude.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Yeah but currently the Egyptians can't get their economy back on track without foreign financial help (hello even the Saudis now lending $4 billion to you guys - I am just wondering what do they want back for their nice gesture btw?).
And as many point out the ongoing strikes and demonstrations are only further damaging Egypt's economy. But I guess as long as foreigners lending a helping hand Egyptians do as they want to. Obviously life hasn't gotten hard enough yet.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Yeah but currently the Egyptians can't get their economy back on track without foreign financial help (hello even the Saudis now lending $4 billion to you guys - I am just wondering what do they want back for their nice gesture btw?).
And as many point out the ongoing strikes and demonstrations are only further damaging Egypt's economy. But I guess as long as foreigners lending a helping hand Egyptians do as they want to. Obviously life hasn't gotten hard enough yet.
The UK has had grants from Europe to work on housing projects in poverty stricken areas. Nobody talks to us like the poor relation. Where do you think Germany would be now without a little help after WWII? We've all had bailouts over the years:
No it's not nice, it's just a fact of life. Get off your high horse and stop being so damned rude.
Sorry, but Marshall Plan was AMerica's gift that was meant to be repaid (never repaid); and Germany didn't get much in regards to Marshall Plan funds until a decade after the war, most the funds went to Allied partners (NATO).
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Wah wah wah, whatever. All I'm saying is, people in glass houses. And we're all in glass houses, to one extent or another. Apart from you guys, I guess. Bully for you Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Monkey: Wah wah wah, whatever. All I'm saying is, people in glass houses. And we're all in glass houses, to one extent or another. Apart from you guys, I guess. Bully for you
Obviously you had not heard that Obama has been trying to negiotiate loans from China.
Dubya went out under executive order and racked up hundred of billions in loans from China to pay for two wars.
Two wars in which NATO coalition forces were present and USAians get stuck with the debts.
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quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Yeah but currently the Egyptians can't get their economy back on track without foreign financial help (hello even the Saudis now lending $4 billion to you guys - I am just wondering what do they want back for their nice gesture btw?).
And as many point out the ongoing strikes and demonstrations are only further damaging Egypt's economy. But I guess as long as foreigners lending a helping hand Egyptians do as they want to. Obviously life hasn't gotten hard enough yet.
The UK has had grants from Europe to work on housing projects in poverty stricken areas. Nobody talks to us like the poor relation. Where do you think Germany would be now without a little help after WWII? We've all had bailouts over the years:
No it's not nice, it's just a fact of life. Get off your high horse and stop being so damned rude.
No you are rude. Read my whole reply and don't twist words around for your liking so you can attack me.
It's not about foreign help, of course Egypt would be completely doomed if foreign help wouldn't be offered.
What concerns me is the ONGOING STRIKES AND DEMANDS. They are devastating Egypt's current domestic affairs even further. Can you grasp that thought?
Check out my replies on the following thread which runs parallel to this one (I don't have time to repeat myself over and over again) and see through all the demands which the protesters are trying to meet.
quote:Originally posted by tigerlily_misr: Yeah but currently the Egyptians can't get their economy back on track without foreign financial help (hello even the Saudis now lending $4 billion to you guys - I am just wondering what do they want back for their nice gesture btw?).
And as many point out the ongoing strikes and demonstrations are only further damaging Egypt's economy. But I guess as long as foreigners lending a helping hand Egyptians do as they want to. Obviously life hasn't gotten hard enough yet.
What did I get wrong ??? Maybe something gets added in translation but this sounds breathtakingly patronising and condescending.
Because Egypt has received aid from foreign countries you think that gives you a right to dictate to Egyptian workers how they ought to behave. So you're perpetuating the very behaviour you're saying Egypt should beware of with the strings attached comment. Or is it only Saudi strings you take umbridge at?
Why "even" Saudi gave them aid? Surely it's better Egypt receives aid from another member of the Arab league rather than western nations whom it would be an understatement to say many (or most) Egyptians view with a pinch of mistrust? Is Germany giving them money? Are your taxes footing it? If not, I don't get your beef.
Do you think these people are only striking because they think, oh it's ok - outside countries will foot the bill? Personally, it seems to me like the whole thing was like that big ball rolling down the hill in Indiana Jones or whatever it was. The movement picked up energy and momentum. It smashed through the government but it didn't come to a standstill yet because all the real changes these people want aren't yet in place. You can't say to that ball, stop and be patient, if you could the revolution would never have happened. People still don't like the way things are. They feel energised and need to channel it. Whilst I agree that perhaps it isn't really being channeled in the right way, I have to add the disclaimer that really, not being Egyptian, it isn't really any of my business what they do. I don't know the ins and outs of the situation and I have no better ideas.
Do you think the average Egyptian Joe wants his country taking money from the west? Who says they can't get their economy "back on track" without outside intervention? What track was it on before where it was being milked left, right an centre? Where are the figures? I don't think the dear old DM are too keen on statistics (or even facts) so I wouldn't waste my time looking there.
I do sometimes wonder if TL is some throw back to Colonial Britain. You know, some 1930s, daddy owns a tea plantation/born under the Raj/let them eat cake kind of mentality. There are still some of them knocking around. I think most of them did have the common sense to stop talking like that a long time ago though.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
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On the Economy, Egypt’s New Leaders Should Follow MubarakBy Steven A. Cook May 26, 2011 9:40 PM GMT+0200 Egypt’s military rulers have just announced plans to put Hosni Mubarak, the former president, on trial for conspiring to kill unarmed protesters during the uprising that unseated him in February. This may help those who are now in charge appease a still-restless citizenry that wants to make a break with the past.
But Egypt’s leaders must ensure the prosecution of Mubarak does not distract from the need to address the country’s bigger problem: its increasingly dire economic condition.
Since Mubarak’s fall, the Egyptian economy has contracted 7 percent, and its foreign currency reserves are still shrinking. Economic growth may slow to 1 percent this year, the lowest level since 1992, according to the International Monetary Fund.
Complicating matters, the government has opened investigations into graft and corruption on the part of many business leaders in Egypt, and this has slowed commercial and financial ventures almost to a halt. Meanwhile, continued discontent among the people -- manifest in sectarian fighting, lawlessness and continued protests -- have spooked foreign investors.
Egypt’s new rulers -- the military leaders now in charge and, more important, the people the voters choose in the parliamentary elections scheduled for September and the subsequent presidential election -- must move as quickly as they can to jump start the economy and lure back foreign investment. The U.S. and other wealthy countries can help encourage this process. But mainly it will require that the new Egypt continue, rather than break with, the economic approach taken by the Mubarak regime. Economic Reform
The former Egyptian government began pursuing economic reform with determination in 2003-04. It floated the Egyptian pound, slashed corporate and personal income taxes, reduced import tariffs, cut bureaucratic red tape, sold state-owned banks and took other steps to enhance the business climate and instill confidence in foreign investors.
These measures were generally successful. Even though high unemployment and underemployment persisted, Egypt’s debt was diminished and its gross domestic product, per capita income and levels of foreign investment all improved in the latter half of the 2000s. Causes of Corruption
Undoubtedly, the initiatives hurt many of the country’s poor. Privatization of industries such as textiles and concrete led to a loss of jobs and the benefits that go with them. To many Egyptians it seemed that the rich were getting richer and the poor were getting poorer -- at an alarming rate. But the only evidence for this perception was anecdotal. In fact, in Egypt, unlike most other countries that have experienced sudden growth, the gap between rich and poor did not grow any wider, World Bank figures indicated.
When the new economic decision makers sit down to work after the Egyptian elections, they will need to acknowledge that the Mubarak reforms were mainly positive -- and that the changes themselves did not unleash a wave of graft and corruption among businessmen and political power brokers, as many Egyptians believe. Rather, the thievery was a function of the perverse political and legal order that existed under Mubarak.
The new leaders of Egypt should continue to sell state- owned enterprises, respect laws and regulations that have helped to open the economy to foreign investment and reduce the subsidies on basic goods that have contributed to the country’s considerable indebtedness.
The U.S. Can Help
Most importantly, the Egyptians must move to stamp out the corruption that made the crony capitalism of the late Mubarak years possible. This means giving parliament oversight on government spending, empowering central auditing authorities, requiring that political leaders disclose their sources of income, and strictly regulating the use of state assets for personal gain.
The U.S. and Europe can help. President Barack Obama acknowledged as much in his speech last week when he said "successful democratic transitions depend upon an expansion of growth and broad-based prosperity." He proposed creating enterprise funds to invest in Egypt and Tunisia; an initiative to push American and European trade and investment in the Middle East and North Africa; and government guarantees worth $2 billion to encourage private American investment in the Middle East. He also said the U.S. should relieve as much as $1 billion in Egyptian government debt. Debt Relief
Clearly, Obama sees how essential economic stability in Egypt -- home to a quarter of the Arab world’s population -- is to the future of the Middle East. It’s important that he push Congress to honor his call for Egyptian debt relief. It would be even better if he were to forgive Egypt’s entire $3.6 billion debt to the U.S. Because of the poor state of the Egyptian economy, the country’s debt is worth only about 14 cents on the dollar anyway, so the real cost to American taxpayers of writing off the whole amount would be only about $500 million.
By doing this, the U.S. could signal to its partners in the Group of 20 that they, too, should waive some of Egypt’s debt. That would give officials in Cairo some breathing room to reinforce Mubarak’s economic reforms -- and resist the temptation to bow to political expediency by ending them.
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