quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The African type can be traced to the African type that lived in China. This Negro type was characterized by sindonty. The earliest examples of sindonty date back to the Choukoudian/Zhoudian Upper Cave type not the sundonty pattern which arrived in the Pacific with the classical mongoloid people found in Indonesia.
LOL. You talk so much bullshit you don't even have a clue when you are.
quote:Anthropologist Christy Turner identified two patterns, Sinodonty and Sundadonty, for East Asia, within the "Mongoloid dental complex"[1]. The latter is regarded as having a more generalised, Australoid morphology and having a longer ancestry than its offspring, Sinodonty.
Sino and Sunda refer to China and Sundaland, while 'dont' refers to teeth.
He found the Sundadont pattern in the Jōmon of Japan, Taiwanese aborigines, Filipinos, Indonesians, Thais, Borneans, Laotians, and Malaysians, and the Sinodont pattern in the inhabitants of China, Mongolia, eastern Siberia, Native Americans, and the Yayoi.
Sinodonty is a particular pattern of teeth common among Native Americans and some peoples in Asia, in particular the northern Han Chinese and some Japanese populations. The upper first two incisors are not aligned with the other teeth, but rotated a few degrees inward, and, moreover, they are shovel-shaped; the upper first premolar has one root (whereas the upper first premolar in Caucasians has normally two roots). The lower first molar in Sinodonts has three roots (whereas it has two roots in Caucasians).
In the 1990s, Turner's dental measurements were frequently mentioned as one of three new tools for studying origins and migrations of human populations. The other two were linguistic methods like Joseph Greenberg's mass comparison of vocabulary or Johanna Nichols's statistical study of language typology and its evolution, and genetic studies pioneered by Cavalli-Sforza.
African indeed. And Sinodonty is even more mongoloid than Sundandonty. LMAO!!!.
quote:Secondly, archaeological research makes it clear that Negroids were very common to ancient China. F. Weidenreich ( in Bull. Nat. Hist. Soc. Peiping 13, (1938-30) noted that the one of the earliest skulls from north China found in the Upper Cave of Chou-k'ou-tien, was of a Oceanic Negroid/Melanesoid " (p.163).
Just the date, exemplifies the absurdity of the study.
Oceanic "negroid" Or what is correctly referred to as Australoid as that was a misconception of trying to divide humans into 4 races, has nothing to do with Africans
quote:In conclusion, the sindonty pattern is an African feature. C.G. Turner's research makes it clear that the early Americans were sindonty not sundonty (see: Turner, "Teeth and prehistory in Asia, Scientific American,(Feb.1989) 88-96), in fact he places the origin of these sindonty people in Northern China at Zhoukoudian Upper Cave. An African influence in the rise of man in this area is clearly supported by the archaeological, toponymic and linguistic evidence.
posted
I posted the material supported by citations. Instead of acting like a spoiled child you should do some research and prove me wrong based on argument and proposition building, instead you are crying like an ignorant fool. Your retarded actions does little to present to the public a scholar it shows that you are like weak child.
As usual you criticize the work of others but you fail to present any counter evidence disputing what I wrote. Your problem is that you believe everything I write is false--without checking my sources.
Your response reflects the Eurocentrist overconfidence held by the foolish novice who believes everything they read written by an authority figure. This is not the Halls of Maat, where responses will be deleted by the moderator if they defeat the ignorant statements made by the regulars.
If you don't have any counter evidence shut up and visit the library.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Clyde - I don't know why you would spend so much time answering Chimu. Firstly, you know he was speaking nonsense for the sake of speaking nonsense. If he wanted to speak truthfully, how easy would it have been for him to lookup homo-Sapien, before posting? Secondly, when they are really that ignorant, I find it best to leave them that way.
This is true. I answer his questions when there're not too dumb because I believe some of the other readers on the forum: "the silent majority" may be interested in expanding their knowledge about ancient Black and African civilizations.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I posted direct links to the studies. How about this. You name 3 lining scientists that you think agree with your claim that Sinodonty is African and Sundadonty in Asian. Name one anthropologist. Don't mention yourself.
Posts: 385 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Chimu - You are a troublesome youth: For starters, you don't seem to know the difference between an assertion and a question. An assertion is to state or declare positively and often forcefully or aggressively - but that requires you to have a well researched position. Whereas, a question is just that, a question, you don't know, so therefore you are asking for information, (it should be done politely).
In answer to your question above:
Anthropologist Christy Turner identified two patterns, Sinodonty and Sundadonty, for East Asia, within the "Mongoloid dental complex"[1]. The latter is regarded as having a more generalised, Australoid morphology and having a longer ancestry than its offspring, Sinodonty.
Sino and Sunda refer to China and Sundaland, while 'dont' refers to teeth.
He found the Sundadont pattern in the Jōmon of Japan, Taiwanese aborigines, Filipinos, Indonesians, Thais, Borneans, Laotians, and Malaysians.
And the Sinodont pattern in the inhabitants of China, Mongolia, eastern Siberia, Native Americans, and the Yayoi.
Sinodonty is a particular pattern of teeth common among Native Americans and some peoples in Asia, in particular the northern Han Chinese and some Japanese populations. The upper first two incisors are not aligned with the other teeth, but rotated a few degrees inward, and, moreover, they are shovel-shaped; the upper first premolar has one root (whereas the upper first premolar in Caucasians has normally two roots). The lower first molar in Sinodonts has three roots (whereas it has two roots in Caucasians).
In the 1990s, Turner's dental measurements were frequently mentioned as one of three new tools for studying origins and migrations of human populations. The other two were linguistic methods like Joseph Greenberg's mass comparison of vocabulary or Johanna Nichols's statistical study of language typology and its evolution, and genetic studies pioneered by Cavalli-Sforza.
Today, the largest number of references on the web to Turner's work are from discussions of the origin of Paleo-Indians and modern Native Americans, including the Kennewick Man controversy. Turner found that the dental remains of both ancient and modern Indians are more similar to each other than they are to dental complexes from other continents, but that the Sinodont patterns of the Paleoindians identify their ancestral homeland as north-east Asia. Some later studies have questioned this and found Sundadont features in some American peoples.
For that to make sense, you must read about haplogroup "D" see below..
Haplogroup D (Y-DNA) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In human genetics, Haplogroup D (M174) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup. Both D and E also contain the M168 change, which is present in all Y-chromosome haplogroups except A and B.
Origins
D is believed to have originated in Africa some 50,000 years before present. Along with haplogroup E, D contains the distinctive YAP polymorphism, which indicates their common ancestry.
Like haplogroup C, D is believed to represent a great coastal migration along southern Asia, from Arabia to Southeast Asia and thence northward to populate East Asia. It is found today at high frequency among populations in Tibet, the Japanese archipelago, and the Andaman Islands, though curiously not in India. The Ainu of Japan and the Jarawa and Onge of the Andaman Islands are notable for possessing almost exclusively Haplogroup D chromosomes, although Haplogroup C3 chromosomes also occur among the Ainu at a frequency of approximately 15%. Haplogroup D chromosomes are also found at low to moderate frequencies among populations of Central and Northeast Asia as well as the Han and Miao-Yao peoples of China and among several minority populations of Yunnan that speak Tibeto-Burman languages and reside in close proximity to the Tibetans.
Unlike haplogroup C, it did not travel from Asia to the New World.
Distribution
Haplogroup D is also remarkable for its rather extreme geographic differentiation, with a distinct subset of Haplogroup D chromosomes being found exclusively in each of the populations that contains a large percentage of individuals whose Y-chromosomes belong to Haplogroup D: Haplogroup D1 among the Tibetans (as well as among the mainland East Asian populations that display very low frequencies of Haplogroup D Y-chromosomes), Haplogroup D2 among the various populations of the Japanese Archipelago, Haplogroup D3 among the inhabitants of Tajikistan and other parts of mountainous southern Central Asia, and Haplogroup D* (probably another monophyletic branch of Haplogroup D) among the Andaman Islanders. Another type (or types) of Haplogroup D* is found at a very low frequency among the Turkic and Mongolic populations of Central Asia. This apparently ancient diversification of Haplogroup D suggests that it may perhaps be better characterized as a "super-haplogroup" or "macro-haplogroup."
The Haplogroup D Y-chromosomes that are found among populations of the Japanese Archipelago are particularly distinctive, bearing a complex of at least five individual mutations along an internal branch of the Haplogroup D phylogeny, thus distinguishing them clearly from the Haplogroup D chromosomes that are found among the Tibetans and Andaman Islanders and providing evidence that Y-chromosome Haplogroup D2 was the modal haplogroup in the ancestral population that developed the prehistoric Jōmon culture in the Japanese islands.
All of this information is readily available on WiKi, which proves something else about you: You are intellectually lazy. You would rather argue than learn, and so inappropriately arrogant that you will not ask questions. To be sure; there are many like you, but all that you guarantee yourselves, is that you will end up as ignorant as when you started.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QB] Chimu - You are a troublesome youth: For starters, you don't seem to know the difference between an assertion and a question. An assertion is to state or declare positively and often forcefully or aggressively - but that requires you to have a well researched position. Whereas, a question is just that, a question, you don't know, so therefore you are asking for information, (it should be done politely).
When responding to an opinion stated as a fact, a forceful question is often required.
quote:Anthropologist Christy Turner identified two patterns, Sinodonty and Sundadonty, for East Asia, within the "Mongoloid dental complex"[1]. The latter is regarded as having a more generalised, Australoid morphology and having a longer ancestry than its offspring, Sinodonty.
Which contradicts Clyde's claim. Next?
Sorry bub, But Haplogroup D shows no manifestation in India. Sundadont is not the same. Try again.
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posted
My purpose was not to defend Clyde, he can do that for himself. The purpose is to demonstrate to you a better way, and how easily it can be obtained. But I am glad to see that you have abandoned the "LMAO" it shows that you are growing up, at least a little.
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posted
Jaime it is easy to read these signs once they are broken down into there syllabic elements.
The Olmec signs are homophones. This means that each sign can have multiple meanings. The first thing you do is check the list of syllabic signs already identified.
After this you compare the target sign and the Olmec syllabic signs. If you don't recognize a particular sign from the list, you may want to refer back to the list of Vai signs provided by Delafosse.
Certain signs in the Cascajal stela/tablet appear multiple times.
The Olmec writing on the Cascajal tablet is an obituary for King Bi Po. This writing is written in Hieroglyphic Olmec (Winters,2006). Hieroglyphic Olmec includes multiple linear Olmec signs which are joined together to make pictures of animals, faces and other objects.
Some researchers have recognized insects and other objects in the signs. In reality these signs are made up several different Olmec linear signs (Winters,1998) as noted above when they are broken down into their elements.
The Olmec writing is read right to left top to bottom. Each segment of the Olmec sign has to be broken down into its individual syllabic sign. In most cases the Olmec signs includes two or more syllabic characters. The Olmec signs can be interpreted as follows:
To read the various Cascajal Inscriptions you have to separate each sign into its syllabic element. Once this is done you can read the inscription.
Transliteration of the Cascajal Signs
1. La fe ta gyo 2. Bi yu 3. Pa po yu 4. Se ta I su 5. Ta kye 6. Beb be 7. Bi Po Yu to 8. Tu fa ku 9. Tu pa pot u 10. Ta gbe pa 11. i-tu 12. Bi Yu yo po 13. Kye gyo 14. Po lu 15. Fe ta yo i 16. Be kye 17. Fe gina 18. Po bi po tu 19. Lu kye gyo to 20. Kye tu a pa 21. Yu gyo i 22. Pa ku pa 23. Po yu 24. Day u kye da 25. Po ta kye tap o 26. Ta gbe 27. Bi Fa yu 28. Bi Yu / Paw
Translation
Reading the Cascajal Tablet from right to left we have the following:
(8) Bi Po lays in state in the tomb, (7) desiring to be endowed with mysterious faculties.
(6) This abode is possessed by the Governor . (5)…. (4) Bi Po Po.
(3) Bi (was), (2) an Artisan desires to be consecrated to the divinity. (1) (and He) merits thou offer of libations.
(14). Admiration (for) the cult specialist’s hemisphere tomb. (13) The inheritance of thou vital spirit is consecration to the divinity.
(12) In a place of righteous admiration, (11) Pure Bi (in a) pure abode
(10) A pure mark of admiration (is) this hemispheric tomb.
(9) [Here] lays low (the celebrity) [he] is gone.
(22) The place of righteousness, [is] (21) the pure hemispheric tomb
(20) (19) Thou (art) obedient to the Order. (18) Hold upright the Order (and) the divinity of the sacred cult.
(17) Pure Admiration this place of, (16) Bi the Vital Spirit. (15) [Truly this is ] a place consecrated to the divinity and propriety.
27) Lay low (the celebrity) to go to , (26) love the mystic order—thou vivid image of the race,
(25) The pure Govenor and (24) Devotee [of the Order lies in this] hemispheric tomb ,desires [to be] a talisman effective in providing one with virtue, (23) [He] merits thou offer of Libations.
(34) Command Respect. (33)….this place of admiration. (32) Thou sacred inheritance is propriety. (31) The Govenor commands existence in a unique state, (31) [in] this ruler’s hemispheric tomb. (29) The Royal (28) [was] a vigorous man.
(36) The pure habitation (35) [of a ]Ruler obedient to the Order. (37) This abode is possessed by the governor. (38) Admiration to you [who art] obedient to the Order. (49) Pure admiration [for this] tomb. (48) Thou hold upright the pure law. (47). Pure admiration [for this tomb]. (46) [It] acts [as] a talisman effective in providing one with virtue. (45) Bi Po, (44) a pure man, (43) of wonder, (42) [whose] inheritance is consecration to the Divinity. (41) Bi Po lays in state in the tomb, (40) desiring to be endowed with mysterious faculties. (62) Bi Po lays in state in the tomb. (61) [This] tomb [is a] sacred object, (60) a place of righteous wonder. (59) Bi’s tomb (58) [is in] accord [with] the law (57) Bi exist in a unique (and) pure state the abode of the Govenor is pure.. (56) The inheritance of [this] Ruler is joy. (55) [In] this tomb of King Bi (54) lays low a celebrity, [he] is gone. (53) The tomb of Bi (52) is a dormitory [of] love. A place consacreted to the divinity. (51) Thou the vivid image of the race love(d) the mystic order. (50) [He] merits [your] offer of Libations.
This translation of the Cascajal tablet makes it clear that the tablet was written for a local ruler at San Lorenzo called Bi Po. This tablet indicates that Bi Po’s tomb was recognized as a sacred site. It also indicates that the Olmecans believed that if they offered libations at the tombs of their rulers they would gain blessings.
There are other mounds at Cascajal. There is the possibility that other writings might be found in the same locale and we may learn the identities of even more Olmec rulers at San Lorenzo.
quote:Clyde Winters: This movie explains why some Mexicans look like Africans. web page
hmmm
And by the way, NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER of what the Olmec called themselves.
[/QUOTE]
Bi-Lingual Olmec Mayan Text
.
We know the name of the Olmec from the Maya. Landa noted that the Yucatec Maya claimed that they got writing from a group of foreigners called Tutul Xiu from Nonoulco (Tozzer, 1941). The Olmec originated writing in Mexico., so we can assume that the term Tutul Xiu refer to the Olmec. The Tutul Xi were probably Olmecs. The term Tutul Xiu, can be translated into Olmec which is a member of the Manding Superfamily of languages as follows: Tutul, "Very good subjects of the Order". Xiu, "The Shi (/the race)".
"The Shis (who) are very good Subjects of the cult-Order".
The term Shi, is probably related to the Manding term Si, which was also used as an ethnonym. Since Si/Xi was used as an ethnonym, the Tutul Xi-u were the Olmec people. Thus I call them by their own name Xi.
Reference Landa, D. de. (1978). Yucatan before and after the Conquest. (Trans. by) William Gates. New York: Dover Publications.
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