quote:This is the most retarted, inane, obviously toughtless thread in all EgyptSearch history.
Blackness is an illusion except in South Africa and America...It's an identity that is vague...before colonization and slavery nationalities were the main identities in the world...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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rasol, pre-order this new book from Richard Lynn. As we all know, race/ethnicity and IQ averages are genetically linked. In Lynn's new book, he explores this relationship globally. As I've said before, take an average African and wherever you find him, he will have an IQ of about 85. For a White, whether he's in America, Europe, Australia, Africa, or Asia, his IQ is likely to be 100. So on and so forth.
IQ is related to socio-economic status as well. Hence, in Lynn's book, globally we find a pattern. Aboriginals and Africans the poorest with least educational attainment. Asians and Whites the wealthiest with the highest educational attainment.
"For example, in Brazil, it is the Japanese who are the highest achieving population. They were brought in as indentured labourers to work the plantations after slavery was abolished in 1888. Yet, today, the Japanese outscore Whites on IQ tests, earn more, and are over-represented in university places. Although they are less than 1% of the total population they comprise 17% of the students at the elite University of Sao Paulo."
These genetic inequalities between man based on evolutionary development will continue to make themselves obvious throughout the next several hundred years, until medicine and treatment can correct it - or are extinguished.
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^ You need to go back to 'high' school and finish your diploma, instead of promoting racist garbage that makes you even dumber than you would otherwise be.
You're never going to get your high school diploma this way.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: ^ You need to go back to 'high' school and finish your diploma, instead of promoting racist garbage that makes you even dumber than you would otherwise be.
lol. What a scathing critique of the Bell Curve. The book was funded by the Pioneer Fund whose founders were associated with or supported eugenics - therefore the findings in the Bell Curve is wrong. LOL.
The Bell Curve is supported by 100 years of research and has only gotten stronger since it's publication in 1993. No book, no critique, no review has rebutted the Bell Curve. It's stands on science.
Go on and carry out IQ studies of your own Rasol. People of your ilk have and sadly for them, they found precisely the same results. White average of 100, Black average of 85, Ameridians in between and Asians on average 105 (however with less geniuses).
You and I both know you're pretending to be ignorant here. You know that IQ disparities are inconvertible fact.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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You're never going to turn a low IQ person into a genius. His genetics limits him. You can raise a high IQ child in a low IQ family from birth. That child's IQ will still be high. You can raise a low IQ child in a high IQ family at birth. The child will remain with a low IQ in spite of the environment. Why? IQ is largely genetic. The APA agrees that there is a 15 point difference between average black and white IQ.
High IQ runs in families. Ditto for low IQ. If there are more families with low IQ among black families, on average black IQ will be lower. This is what 100 years of IQ research bears out.
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Notice how all the critiques you post about books like the Bell Curve are written by non-scientists from non-peer reviewed journals?
You rely on journalists and magazine editors for conclusions and data of IQ research lol. These are the same people - the media - who tell you that Mismeasure of Man is a good book although it's a laughing stock in the scientific community.
The scientific community substantiates what I present here; not your view (or should I say wishful thinking). There is a consensus out there.
"Richard Lynn graduated in Psychology and took his Ph.D. at the University of Cambridge. He has been lecturer in Psychology at the University of Exeter, professor of Psychology at the Economic and Social Research Institute, Dublin, and professor and head of the department of Psychology at the University of Ulster. Currently he is Emeritus Professor of Psychology at the University of Ulster, Coleraine, Northern Ireland. His main work has been on intelligence and personality. His books include Personality and National Character (1972), Dimensions of Personality (1980), Educational Achievement in Japan (1988), Dysgenics: Genetic Deterioration in Modern Populations (1996), Eugenics: A Reassessment (2001), (co-author) IQ and the Wealth of Nations (2002), Race Differences in Intelligence (2006), and (co-author) IQ and Global Inequality (2006). He has received awards including the Passingham Prize at Cambridge University for the best Psychology student of the year and the US Mensa Awards for Excellence in 1985, 1993, and 2007 for work on intelligence. "
Wow, Mensa award for excellence. What has the clueless journalist that you cite ever done in the area of intelligence research?
Only the truth - no matter how ugly it is - can set us free. It is by recognizing it that we can move forward. Do the right thing, the moral thing, and stop playing games rasol.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: If there are no true genetic markers that signify race, what are the markers that signify color?
When does the "Black" color start or finish?
Is it based on genetics, time, or location?
Let's see if you can turn a dumb question into a thoughtful answer.
Leaving out the issue of color as and ethnic reference....what in your option signifies color, in general?
If you say, the sky is blue.... what "marker" signifies this?
When was "black" an ethnic label other than in the west by people of African descent and super-imposed on people of African descent by Europeans?
I ask the question because in this site "Black" is used anthropometrically and scientifically. If so how do we "quantify" what "black" is like we can quantify genetic evidence in Bio-anthropology?
So again, if "black" started about 1.2 million years ago(which I had forgotten you told me this when I posted this question, sorry about that) when did it end with Non-African people? If we are looking at Eurasians etc. in retrospect and only have anatomical data to assess; at what time can we say with confidence who is "black" and who is "not black"? And what would the answer to that question be based on?
I just want to be able to say - "these people were black "x" amount of years ago in "x" location and I say they are black because of "x" " so that I won't be incorrect to whom I am speaking to.
I ask this because I have read other threads here saying that some Native Americans and many South East Asians have been called "black" here and ONLY here and no where else and I don't agree nor believe that the said people were black nor saw any evidence of methodology to test that they were.
quote:Originally posted by sshaun002: Notice how all the critiques you post about books like the Bell Curve are written by non-scientists from non-peer reviewed journals?
You rely on journalists and magazine editors for conclusions and data of IQ research lol. These are the same people - the media - who tell you that Mismeasure of Man is a good book although it's a laughing stock in the scientific community.
The scientific community substantiates what I present here; not your view (or should I say wishful thinking). There is a consensus out there.
"Richard Lynn graduated in Psychology and took his Ph.D. at the University of Cambridge. He has been lecturer in Psychology at the University of Exeter, professor of Psychology at the Economic and Social Research Institute, Dublin, and professor and head of the department of Psychology at the University of Ulster. Currently he is Emeritus Professor of Psychology at the University of Ulster, Coleraine, Northern Ireland. His main work has been on intelligence and personality. His books include Personality and National Character (1972), Dimensions of Personality (1980), Educational Achievement in Japan (1988), Dysgenics: Genetic Deterioration in Modern Populations (1996), Eugenics: A Reassessment (2001), (co-author) IQ and the Wealth of Nations (2002), Race Differences in Intelligence (2006), and (co-author) IQ and Global Inequality (2006). He has received awards including the Passingham Prize at Cambridge University for the best Psychology student of the year and the US Mensa Awards for Excellence in 1985, 1993, and 2007 for work on intelligence. "
Wow, Mensa award for excellence. What has the clueless journalist that you cite ever done in the area of intelligence research?
Only the truth - no matter how ugly it is - can set us free. It is by recognizing it that we can move forward. Do the right thing, the moral thing, and stop playing games rasol.
Why are you sullying my thread with this. I am asking about "appearance" of humans not their intelligence Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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There are two reasons why truth is rejected rasol.
1) You know that racists will use such data to discrimininate and will call to end social programs that help the poor (disproportionately low IQ) people.
2) The non-racist moralist who will recognize that such inherent genetic differences compel him and society to care for, babysit, and support indefinitely so long as modern society is structured the way it is now. A low IQ person can only hope to be a top athlete or singer, because he/she is never going to be a heart surgeon, and will on average be less efficient even on simple tasks in low grade work.
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Hundred years of research with no context. Blacks have internalized self hatred for hundreds of years under whites to the point where we form an anti-intellectual culture. Asians did not go through what we did. Therefore the test results are understandable. Civilizations come and go. If blacks are inherently inferior why did civilization start in Africa? If Ashkenazi Jews are brightest whites why did high culture in Europe start with Greece, not among them in Khazaria or S.Russia? And why does Israel live off aid from gentile nations not on its own? Science – context = propaganda.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote: Hundred years of research with no context. Blacks have internalized self hatred for hundreds of years under whites to the point where we form an anti-intellectual culture. Asians did not go through what we did. Therefore the test results are understandable. Civilizations come and go. If blacks are inherently inferior why did civilization start in Africa? If Ashkenazi Jews are brightest whites why did high culture in Europe start with Greece, not among them in Khazaria or S.Russia? And why does Israel live off aid from gentile nations not on its own? Science – context = propaganda.
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<sniff, sniff>
aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuu
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You sad sorry, beatdown loser. Do you think about this stuff before you post it?
You are a pitiful, weak, helpless sap. What do want us to do? Feel sorry for your limp brained ass? Is that why you posted this garbage?
People aren't going to feel sorry for your dumb ass. People are going to think or say, what the **** is wrong with his sorry ass.
Even if you can find a few guilt ridden imbeciles to feel sorry for your ass, its not putting any money in your pocket, so what's the point.
You need to grow the **** up, chump.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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No not posting for sympathy just context. If we learn self hatred then we can unlearn it. I agree we will have to lose the victim mentality though.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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You are a bit naive to asumme that Lynn is usually disingenuous in his fanatical obsessions with the so-called IQ of blacks. His quote about Japanese migrant workers to Brazil is just very misleading.
quote:"For example, in Brazil, it is the Japanese who are the highest achieving population. They were brought in as indentured labourers to work the plantations after slavery was abolished in 1888. Yet, today, the Japanese outscore Whites on IQ tests, earn more, and are over-represented in university places. Although they are less than 1% of the total population they comprise 17% of the students at the elite University of Sao Paulo."
The Japanese were migrant farmers and workers to Brazil beginning in 1908. They worked the coffee fields not sugar plantations of North East Brazil. They educated their children in schools they themselves built and the language they were taught in was Japanese They refused to intermarry until the 4th generation and they more or less kept to themselves. Their goal was to acquire some wealth in about 3 years before returning to Japan.
So Lynn's sly comparison with Africans is just too transparent.
On the IQ thing I suggest that you read James Flynn's recent book "What is Intelligence?". Flynn argues that very, very empirically there's a thing called the Flynn effect: IQs rise over time based on the fact that if you took the IQ tests administered to your grandparents, you would score 125-130 to their 100. That's why IQ scores are usually "normed" to get the real score-- for those of the same cultural background--all things being equal.
Flynn also showed that Asians perform at above their IQ scores in real life jobs,etc. In other words, the scores usually correlated with certain jobs for the rest of U.S. society show that when East Asians are tested they average about 7 points less than the others. Which proves that hard work and diligence ofen pays off.
Flynn also showed that the scores of U.S. blacks have increased by some 6 points in the last 30 years--even though there is lesser increase in white scores over the same period.
The point about IQ scores is that they are very heavily environmentally determined. Proof: Monozygotic twins reared apart can show IQ differences as great as 20 points(See Jensen's 1972 twin studies where as many as 10% of the cohorts showed IQ divergences as great as--at least 14 points).
Lynn and others just want to fanatically believe that blacks are intellectually less endowed than whites and yellows. Maybe it makes them feel good.
But again, how would you explain the scores of India(81), Irak(83), Mexico(83), Nepal(79), Iran(83).
A lot of band width is used up on this site on the weird issue of whether East African Horners are "caucasoid". The silly Eurocentric principle is that "intelligence" runs with being "caucasoid". Yet the IQs of Ethiopia and Somalia are in the last 10 of Africa's 53 nations. Which just proves how silly the Lynn notion of linking IQ with caucasoid affinities.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Their goal was to acquire some wealth in about 3 years before returning to Japan.
As did most Asian migrants who came to the west as indentured laborers i.e. their experince was different from ours. Also the arguments in The Bell Curve are bunk. If Ashkenazi Jews are so smart and "high intelligence also provides some protection against lapsing into criminality for people who otherwise are at risk" why are they so dominant in criminality and even today with Russian mafia, Ecstasy drug rings etc?
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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"You are a bit naive to assume that Lynn is NOT usually disingenuous in his fanatical obsessions...."
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: Hundred years of research with no context. Blacks have internalized self hatred for hundreds of years under whites to the point where we form an anti-intellectual culture. Asians did not go through what we did. Therefore the test results are understandable. Civilizations come and go. If blacks are inherently inferior why did civilization start in Africa? If Ashkenazi Jews are brightest whites why did high culture in Europe start with Greece, not among them in Khazaria or S.Russia? And why does Israel live off aid from gentile nations not on its own? Science – context = propaganda.
None of these things mean much when it comes to IQ. Being depressed or having low self-esteem doesn't effect on IQ.
That being said, things have changed tremendously over the past 100 years for all races in North America. And from the late 60's onward, we've seen a huge black middle-class emerge. Yet IQ and g remain virtually unchanged.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: The Japanese were migrant farmers and workers to Brazil beginning in 1908. They worked the coffee fields not sugar plantations of North East Brazil. They educated their children in schools they themselves built and the language they were taught in was Japanese They refused to intermarry until the 4th generation and they more or less kept to themselves. Their goal was to acquire some wealth in about 3 years before returning to Japan.
This may be true, but it still does not explain the stark contrast in overrepresentation of Asians. They're 1% but make up 17% of students in the University of Sao Paulo today. Surely in a country of 99% Other (including Whites), the Japanese students would not make up so high a percentage. Their historical experiences may have been different, but it's clear that these descendants are also equipped with high IQ. If their forebears had low IQ, no amount of schooling or focus on education would allow their descendants to even get into an ordinary university today. Those with low IQ have no chance whatsoever, no matter how hard they try, to make it into university.
quote: On the IQ thing I suggest that you read James Flynn's recent book "What is Intelligence?". Flynn argues that very, very empirically there's a thing called the Flynn effect: IQs rise over time based on the fact that if you took the IQ tests administered to your grandparents, you would score 125-130 to their 100. That's why IQ scores are usually "normed" to get the real score-- for those of the same cultural background--all things being equal.
Flynn also showed that Asians perform at above their IQ scores in real life jobs,etc. In other words, the scores usually correlated with certain jobs for the rest of U.S. society show that when East Asians are tested they average about 7 points less than the others. Which proves that hard work and diligence ofen pays off.
Lynn has flip flopped on this issue many times. I won't pretend everything is resolved because intelligence is not as tractable as we'd like it to be. That being said, g has remained pretty stagnant regardless of slight increases in IQ scores. We have more information and knowledge today than our grandparents, so they would score poorly if given the same test today. However, they were just as smart.
Hard work, persistence, and dedication play an important role in job performance. If somebody is intelligent but doesn't apply themselves, they won't do as well as somebody moderately intelligent who applies themselves fully. But all things being equal, the more intelligent as a group, will dominate because their are intelligent people who are dedicated and hard working too.
quote: Flynn also showed that the scores of U.S. blacks have increased by some 6 points in the last 30 years--even though there is lesser increase in white scores over the same period.
This is fine. We know that environment plays a role. It's just not the most important feature - genetics is.
quote: The point about IQ scores is that they are very heavily environmentally determined. Proof: Monozygotic twins reared apart can show IQ differences as great as 20 points(See Jensen's 1972 twin studies where as many as 10% of the cohorts showed IQ divergences as great as--at least 14 points).
I'll try to find it unless you have a reference. I'll see if he cites it in his book, the g Factor, as I'm certain whatever he found in that study, he has explained. Jensen does not hold the view that IQ is heavily environmentally determined.
quote: Lynn and others just want to fanatically believe that blacks are intellectually less endowed than whites and yellows. Maybe it makes them feel good.
That may be part of it. Another part, may simply to try to explain what they observe, or maybe trying to simply find the truth. You knock people like Lynn but what scientist can you cite that has undertaken research into population intelligence that finds completely opposing results? There are none. Most won't even attempt because they're afraid of what they'll find and the fallout that comes with it.
quote: But again, how would you explain the scores of India(81), Irak(83), Mexico(83), Nepal(79), Iran(83).
These are like ameridian populations - midway between blacks and whites. Most of India is poor and backward. Iran today is quite different than it was historically. What is desert now was once flourishing forests and very hospitable. It's in the region where agriculture began. Nutrition can help some of these places by a few IQ points but not much. Mexicans are dropping out of highschool in America at a rate of 50%. Yes, HALF. They will be a huge underclass in the near future - no better than their border jumping parents eeking out a living and hating on White and Black citizens.
quote: A lot of band width is used up on this site on the weird issue of whether East African Horners are "caucasoid". The silly Eurocentric principle is that "intelligence" runs with being "caucasoid". Yet the IQs of Ethiopia and Somalia are in the last 10 of Africa's 53 nations. Which just proves how silly the Lynn notion of linking IQ with caucasoid affinities. [/QB]
They may be caucasoid but they're predominantly black. This is why we consider Egyptians as blacks. Regardless of some of them who have caucasoid skeletal features, their skin, hair, texture and color are clearly black.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Where is this tremendous change re black peoples condition? 60s to present is not 100, how much was your IQ? And huge black middle class is relative to the even larger black underclass, which is understandable since the basic racist structure of America has not changed. As Limin said environment, not "race", is what counts. I would add basic common sense too as I have shown the Murry's arguments just don't make sense. Stop making excuses for quack science.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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It's like trying to explain Jewish dominance in North America and Europe as a byproduct of their culture. It doesn't work. They do so well because their IQ is exceptionally high compared to all indigenious populations. This is purely genetic. Their genetic makeup has been absolutely shaped by environment over the centuries, but it's not like they have the same IQ as you and I and just decide to study harder which boosts their IQ. Even if we study just as hard, our IQ will not match theirs so we will never be as successful on average.
quote:Originally posted by akoben08: Their goal was to acquire some wealth in about 3 years before returning to Japan.
As did most Asian migrants who came to the west as indentured laborers i.e. their experince was different from ours. Also the arguments in The Bell Curve are bunk. If Ashkenazi Jews are so smart and "high intelligence also provides some protection against lapsing into criminality for people who otherwise are at risk" why are they so dominant in criminality and even today with Russian mafia, Ecstasy drug rings etc?
Criminality is a social construct and doesn't haev much to do with innate intelligence. When European kings were raping the resources of Africa and North America, they were doing something that TODAY we would say is illegal. At that time it was not illegal so it was not a crime.
Personality traits like greed are found in people smart and dumb. The smart will tend to get caught less or take better calculated risks. Instead of shooting up a store clerk for $20 (which is chump change that will be gone before tomorrow) and risking imprisonment, the intelligent criminal will swindle a million little grannies out of $10 each so that he reaps $10 million and risks a few years in club fed prison.
There are exceptions, but this is typically how it plays out.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Exceptionally bright yet they rely on the welfare of others. LOL Israel is a welfare state par excellence. And as stated their penchant for criminality then and now (even on international scale as Israel is an illegal state) blows the rubbish of Murray straight out of the water. Their in-group psyche and culture of study, not in inherent superiority, is what explains their dominance.
Criminality is a social construct and doesn't haev much to do with innate intelligence.
So are the arguments against IQ: a construct and culturally biased. But your position here is against what Murray argues, the traditional justification for eugenics, and social Darwinism.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: Where is this tremendous change re black peoples condition? 60s to present is not 100, how much was your IQ? And huge black middle class is relative to the even larger black underclass, which is understandable since the basic racist structure of America has not changed. As Limin said environment, not "race", is what counts. I would add basic common sense too as I have shown the Murry's arguments just don't make sense. Stop making excuses for quack science.
By all accounts there are more blacks in the middle-class than in the underclass. However the children of those in the middle class are falling back into underclass status as they cannot maintain grades with the other middle-class kids.
America is gearing up to elect a Black president, a man raised by Whites - some who unwittingly held racist sentiments (his grandmother), yet he rose above. It's because of his innate IQ.
Racism as a legacy is still felt. An environment of self-hate or beliefs of self-worthlessness permeate many black communities which is a catalyst for increased violence and criminality. However, even if this was not the case, IQ disparities would exist such that most of those involved in a life of crime would instead live straight lives, but they would also remain poorer and in less skilled jobs than others because they predominantly have lower IQ. This means that most of them can never be competitive in highly skilled jobs.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: Exceptionally bright yet they rely on the welfare of others. LOL Israel is a welfare state par excellence. And as stated their penchant for criminality then and now (even on international scale as Israel is an illegal state) blows the rubbish of Murray straight out of the water. Their in-group psyche and culture of study, not in inherent superiority, is what explains their dominance.
Criminality is a social construct and doesn't haev much to do with innate intelligence.
So are the arguments again IQ: a construct and culturally biased. But your position here is against what Murray argues and also the traditional justification for eugenics, and social Darwinism.
The make-up of Jews in Israel is different than the Jewish Diaspora. Whereas Jews across the globe score higher on IQ, Jews in Israel have a lower IQ score. It's below the European average of 100. I believe it hovers around the low 90s. It's literally no different than their middle eastern neighbors IQ. Hence, the reason the nation is poor. However, it's heavily funded by smart Jews and emigrants and therefore has a first class military.
The understanding to come away with is not that intelligent people are any less criminal or that a population with high IQ cannot suffer setbacks or be wiped out by their own greed or other human flaws. It's simply that a population with high IQ is the only population that can send rockets into space, build airplanes, harness electricity, and so forth. You need a critical mass of highly intelligent people and a supporting relatively high average IQ population to allow these things to come to fruition.
This is why one can predict that if America is ever overrun and displaced by a Mexican majority, the country will slowly and surely disintegrate into 3rd world status. Mexicans simply cannot maintain society as we know it because their are not enough of them with high IQs in proportion to the number of low IQ mexicans. I can also predict that Africa will never rise to the same level as modern day America or Europe without a dominant majority or minority of Whites or Asians running the operations.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:By all accounts there are more blacks in the middle-class than in the underclass. However the children of those in the middle class are falling back into underclass status as they cannot maintain grades with the other middle-class kids.
Black middle class is largely engineered by White liberals and not an example of any change in American structure. They too are victims of (and in turn promote) the anti-intellectual culture e.g. BET owned by black middle class, etc.
quote:America is gearing up to elect a Black president, a man raised by Whites - some who unwittingly held racist sentiments (his grandmother), yet he rose above. It's because of his innate IQ.
Yes and he will be a welcome change from an incredibly stupid white one. LOL
quote:Racism as a legacy is still felt. An environment of self-hate or beliefs of self-worthlessness permeate many black communities which is a catalyst for increased violence and criminality. However, even if this was not the case, IQ disparities would exist such that most of those involved in a life of crime would instead live straight lives, but they would also remain poorer and in less skilled jobs than others because they predominantly have lower IQ. This means that most of them can never be competitive in highly skilled jobs.
Racism is still a reality not a "legacy". And in the absence of any change in situation you can't talk about social and educational disparities still existing. That is guess work, not science.
Israel blows up your thesis too, despite your pathetic attempt to draw distinctions between Jews of Israel and Diaspora. Their military is largely stolen secrets from America, heard of Pollard? And US aid is largely from tax payers many from your so-called low IQ Americans. Imagine that! Again, their dominance in law, science etc is due to culture. Culture matters.
quote:This is why one can predict that if America is ever overrun and displaced by a Mexican majority, the country will slowly and surely disintegrate into 3rd world status.
Flood of uneducated, low skilled Mexicans, as a result of systematic racism of the white Mexican elite, will no doubt turn America in third world. But it is the historical context you fools negate to justify racism. Mexico and third world are impoverished too because of unfair international trade policies etc, so America is simply getting what she so gave the world. Chickens are a coming home! LOL
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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SSShaaun002[why the SS prefix--kinda creepy?]
Read Flynn's latest work and you will see that he emphasizes that "g" has changed a great deal over the years.
I don't know why you are using the small Brazilian Japanese sample to mean anything in a nation whose majority population has ancestors that were brutally enslaved[I have been to Salvador, N.E.. Brazil and stayed in aplace called Pelourhino that is paved over with cobble stones and learnt that each stone is called "cabeza do negro" because so many blacks died doing the back-breaking work. I also saw the place where unruly captives were whipped mercilessly for transgressions.] and raped. A nation where the majority population has experienced minimum schooling.
The average IQ of Brazil is about 85--so that proves my point. The Japanese migrants however built schools for themselves and their children, which meant they valued education and were able to pursue it. The blacks and Amerindian Brazilians had no such luxuries.
Note that arch-nativist J. Philippe Rushton recently stated that IQ is a 50/50 split between environment and genetics. Comments?
You prevaricate when you say that the Iraqis and Iranians(Persians) of today are different from their ancestors. How so?
Note that Greece, the so-called cradle and father of Western thougt and intellect scores 91 on IQ tests. Israel also scores 94.
Arabia, the fount and source of Islam scores 83 on IQ tests--and what can you say?
And Egypt--the land of the first in everything human now gives an IQ score of 85.
So you SS-Shaun IQ scores are just bogus when used as some kind of measure of real human intellect.
And by the way psycholgy is not a science. Lynn was trained in one of those quack areas that some people love to proclaim as "scientific".
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: [QUOTE]Black middle class is largely engineered by White liberals and not an example of any change in American structure. They too are victims of (and in turn promote) the anti-intellectual culture e.g. BET owned by black middle class, etc.
Some of it is propagated by Whites, yes.
quote:Yes and he will be a welcome change from an incredibly stupid white one. LOL
No, he's a smart man who is replacing a relatively smart, but greedy, white man. When greed is involved, people become irrational or take unreasonable risks. Bush and his boys make money from oil and from political alliances with Israel, so keeping Americans poor and waging wars to maintain power and shore up their sources of money actually makes some sense.
quote:Racism is still a reality not a "legacy". And in the absence of any change in situation you can't talk about social and educational disparities still existing. That is guess work, not science.
Racism has always been a reality and always will be. Therefore disparities and conflicts will always exist. These things have little to do with IQ.
quote: Israel blows up your thesis too, despite your pathetic attempt to draw distinctions between Jews of Israel and Diaspora. Their military is largely stolen secrets from America, heard of Pollard? And US aid is largely from tax payers many from your so-called low IQ Americans. Imagine that! Again, their dominance in law, science etc is due to culture. Culture matters.
Einstein was responsible for the atom bomb. Without that their would be no American military secrets to steal. And many scientists in the highest levels of the American military are Jewish just as they are in Europe. US aid is from tax payers because policies enacted by Jewish law makers and government officials, lobbies, and pressure groups make it this way. Everything is paid for by average Americans. Where else is the money going to come from?
Their dominance in law and science is because of their intellect, not culture. Our culture revolves around money and the attainment of it. Everybody wants money. But only Jews are exceptionally successful at obtaining it because they're smarter than most.
quote:Flood of uneducated, low skilled Mexicans, as a result of systematic racism of the white Mexican elite, will no doubt turn America in third world. But it is the historical context you fools negate to justify racism. Mexico and third world are impoverished too because of unfair international trade policies etc, so America is simply getting what she so gave the world. Chickens are a coming home! LOL [/qb]
Do not mistaken uneducated with uneducatable. Yes, Mexicans are uneducated because of social policies and history. However, the majority of them can never be educated to the same standard as the average White American. Their IQ is lower, hence the outcome will always be lower/worse.
Mexico is the wealthiest nation south of the border. It's government hordes all the money. They behave like corrupt African rogue nations. They have the money to make the country into something special but they choose not to and they'd be hard pressed to do so anyway, because the population isn't smart enough.
It is morality that beneath what is happening now in America and Europe. It is wrong to degrade and kill people based on ethnicity or to take away opportunities for them. However, in this act of generosity, the indigenious populations are being displaced. Once said populations are vanquished, the Mexicans and Africans and Arabs who are "coming home to roost" will begin living as they do in their home countries right now - impoverish, religious, infighting, uncivilized. In fact, they'll probably pray for Whity return, but Whitey will be dead and gone - a distant memory.
The immoral thing to do would be for Americans and Europeans to throw non-Whites out and start dropping bombs on all non-White nations killing all inhabitants. In the long run, Europeans and Americans would benefit from such actions, but committing a wrong to make a right is still wrong. This is why it will not happen.
Posts: 477 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: And by the way psycholgy is not a science. Lynn was trained in one of those quack areas that some people love to proclaim as "scientific".
Psychiatry is not a science but psychology is. It follows the rigors of the scientific method when undertaking studies and research. In areas like intelligence testing it does this and it has given us results that allow us to make predictions and whose results and predictions are reliable and replicatable.
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posted
I repeat! Psychology is not a science! How can it be a science when what it seeks to measure--i.e. the reasons for human behaviour--are just NOT accessible to empirical observation?
In all your ramblings about IQ you just fail to understand that it is the consensus among non-quack psychometricians that IQ scores are very heavily functional on the environment. So if IQ is fixed,how do you account for the Flynn effect? Even Jensen agreed that it's real.
That's why the Germans and the Swedes who for thousands of years were just illiterate and savage barbarians--as the Greeks and Romans called them--now score higher on IQ tests than Greeks and Italians, who gave to Europe most of the framework for its culture and civilization.
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quote: Bush and his boys make money from oil and from political alliances with Israel, so keeping Americans poor and waging wars to maintain power and shore up their sources of money actually makes some sense.
You know sshaun002 I might have to agree with you here that Bush might be little smart after all. But then, if America goes down economically because of throwing away trillions on a useless war, who loses out in the end?
Re Jewish dominance in science and aid to Israel: I think I read somewhere that Einstein was a plagiarist. In any event western science is built on Moorish (black) foundations. If whites are superior this should not be. In this period Jewish dominance was confined to philosophy and tax collecting, their role as outstanding scientists are relatively absent. Also during slavery inventions etc were attributed to white masters, and since Jews dominated the slave trade (as a result of their wealth being from centuries as royal financiers in Europe) this can help to explain part of their so-called dominance in western scientific history. US aid to Israel is dependent on an ignorant mass, so they are smart here yes I agree. But this is because of evolutionary extreme in-group culture, which is why they have so many genetic diseases, and nobody loves money more than the Jew. All things considered I see no evidence for innate white supremacy over blacks, in fact history is against it.
quote: Do not mistaken uneducated with uneducatable. Yes, Mexicans are uneducated because of social policies and history. However, the majority of them can never be educated to the same standard as the average White American. Their IQ is lower, hence the outcome will always be lower/worse
Come on sshaun002, again this is the same guess work as with AA, you have no way of knowing their true potential since the conditions are still constant.
quote: Psychiatry is not a science but psychology is.
I think you have it the other way around.
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: I repeat! Psychology is not a science! How can it be a science when what it seeks to measure--i.e. the reasons for human behaviour--are just NOT accessible to empirical observation?
In all your ramblings about IQ you just fail to understand that it is the consensus among non-quack psychometricians that IQ scores are very heavily functional on the environment. So if IQ is fixed,how do you account for the Flynn effect? Even Jensen agreed that it's real.
That's why the Germans and the Swedes who for thousands of years were just illiterate and savage barbarians--as the Greeks and Romans called them--now score higher on IQ tests than Greeks and Italians, who gave to Europe most of the framework for its culture and civilization.
Psychometricians do not say environment plays no role. The most ardent (Jensen, et al.) concede that as much as 20% of intelligence is mediated by environment. I mean, this is obvious. Poor nutrition, lack of stimuli, will affect cognitive development. Thus, as environments have changed, IQ has changed slightly with it, but not to any significant degree. The genius is still a genius, the low IQ person is still low IQ. In other words, no threshold has been overcome as a result of slight increases in IQ, since g has remain virtually unchanged. An increase of 6 IQ points for somebody with an IQ of 85 puts them in the 90's - below the White average and substantially below any level of genius or college level intellect.
We do not yet have direct empirical evidence but a lot of converging indirect evidence. What more can one ask for when studying something as complex as the brain.
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The Ethiopians, the Berbers, the Copts, the Nubians, the Zaghawa, the Moors, the people of Sind,...the islands in the seas...are full of Blacks" --Al-Jahiz, Book of the Glory of the Blacks Over the Whites http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/jahiz.html
^ This quote is 1000 years old. It precedes the ENSLAVEMENT OF YOUR MIND by Europeans, whom you wish to credit with inventing Blacknesses....when in reality, they invent only white supremacist hatred of Blacks, which in fact, delimits your intellect.
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posted
Wealth is concentrated among the few white and mestizo class in Latin America because of systematic discrimination, not low IQ. Africa is the same as its socio-economic system is built along similar lines as Latin America: underdevelopment is a result of neo-colonialism. I agree the genius is still a genius but his environment will determine if he goes to Harvard medical school or end up in some bush war because of conditions imposed by others.
quote: We do not yet have direct empirical evidence but a lot of converging indirect evidence. What more can one ask for when studying something as complex as the brain.
What we don't have is evidence for the innate superiority of whites, which is why you keep skirting the historical examples of Egypt, Greece and the Germanic tribes of yesteryear. Again, history undermines your entire thesis which is why whites cant allow AE to be "blackened".
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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The Ethiopians, the Berbers, the Copts, the Nubians, the Zaghawa, the Moors, the people of Sind,...the islands in the seas...are full of Blacks" --Al-Jahiz, Book of the Glory of the Blacks Over the Whites http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/jahiz.html
^ This quote is 1000 years old. It precedes the ENSLAVEMENT OF YOUR MIND by Europeans, whom you wish to credit with inventing Blacknesses....when in reality, they invent only white supremacist hatred of Blacks, which in fact, delimits your intellect.
The words meant black but they still divided the "blacks" into different ethnic groups.
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quote: lol. What a scathing critique of the Bell Curve. The book was funded by the Pioneer Fund whose founders were associated with or supported eugenics - therefore the findings in the Bell Curve is wrong. LOL.
Basically Yes the Bell Curve is something we call Scientific Racism some Leaders use this to justify their Economic Exploitation or Colonialism of other cultures thought-out the world despite their contributions to World Culture
quote:Originally posted by akoben08: . . . they are smart here yes I agree. But this is because of evolutionary extreme in-group culture, which is why they have so many genetic diseases, and nobody loves money more than the Jew.
Correct. At least your acknowledge that their intellect is genetically based. Whether it's because of in-group breeding or something else, it's primarily genetic.
quote: Come on sshaun002, again this is the same guess work as with AA, you have no way of knowing their true potential since the conditions are still constant.
We can't say with absolute certainty but it's not completely unknown either. Intelligence studies provide us with indices as to the potential. For one, IQ averages are constant among racial groups throughout the world, even though culture and foods vary across the world. Secondly, we know that a child born from high IQ parents will have a high IQ even if raised by low IQ parents. His IQ will be higher than his adopted parents. This is genetics. Unless something in the womb differs drastically between low IQ parents and high IQ parents with regard to diet or something else, it seems to me this is evidence of genetic dominance.
Therefore, if we take an average Mexican and measure his intelligence, by and large that is close to his true potential (barring severe malnutrition during infancy and development in the womb). I don't understand why it's difficult to think that populations differ in intelligence. It's the most rational conclusion one could come to based on evolution.
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quote:Originally posted by Masonic Rebel: Sshaun002
quote: lol. What a scathing critique of the Bell Curve. The book was funded by the Pioneer Fund whose founders were associated with or supported eugenics - therefore the findings in the Bell Curve is wrong. LOL.
Basically Yes the Bell Curve is something we call Scientific Racism some Leaders use this to justify their Economic Exploitation or Colonialism of other cultures thought-out the world despite their contributions to World Culture
You Know James Watson for example has around 16% African Ancestry you might want to rethink your position.
Note: Rethinking your "Belief" would require a high level of Intelligence ^
I didn't watch the video but I read the entire interview yesterday from theroot website. Watson reaffirmed that populations may differ in intelligence but that it should not matter so long as we judge individuals rather than groups. He said that people hinged on his comment or took it out of context or that the wording was harsh or too callous. But the main theme throughout the interview is that he stands by the substance of his statement.
It's clear to me that Watson is familiar with the literature on IQ but that he's trying to entire polite society again.
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quote:The words meant black but they still divided the "Blacks" into different ethnic groups.
^ All ethnic constructs can be either sub-catagorized or super-extended, so your comment makes no point, and does not make any sense.
Niether does non-Wolof ever make any sense.
Nor do either of you ever answer questions.
You only make stupid remarks. It's sad that when confronted with Historical texts from Al Jihaz and Ancient Egypt, dumb remarks, is the best you can do. You're both lame.
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quote:Originally posted by akoben08: Wealth is concentrated among the few white and mestizo class in Latin America because of systematic discrimination, not low IQ. Africa is the same as its socio-economic system is built along similar lines as Latin America: underdevelopment is a result of neo-colonialism. I agree the genius is still a genius but his environment will determine if he goes to Harvard medical school or end up in some bush war because of conditions imposed by others.
quote: We do not yet have direct empirical evidence but a lot of converging indirect evidence. What more can one ask for when studying something as complex as the brain.
What we don't have is evidence for the innate superiority of whites, which is why you keep skirting the historical examples of Egypt, Greece and the Germanic tribes of yesteryear. Again, history undermines your entire thesis which is why whites cant allow AE to be "blackened".
The civilizations and technologies of the past are very different from the ones we live in today. Any comparisons are severely limited.
It doesn't really matter that Aztecs and Mayans built amazing stone temples over centuries as places for whorsihp and human sacrifice. There have always been geniuses in every society and the fact that some developed fine architecture and enslaved men to build for them is in no way applicable to modern society.
We don't have slaves any more. Now individuals make their own life choices, and White racism is the least of the problems holding other groups back today. Those choices result in success or failure. Religious doctrine and beliefs are no longer taken literally - reason, logic, and science now dominate. We don't bow to witch doctors any more. We have schools for learning a variety of skills including critical thinking - if we're capable of doing so.
Creating and maintaining a civilization styled after those of the past requires very different tools and intellect than modern civilizations.
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posted
It's funny Watson backtracking on his comment that he's gloomy about the future prospect of Africa. In the video he says he's not gloomy IF "we" educate [Africans]. He doesn't believe that. He's still gloomy and he has every reason to be. If intelligence does differ, no amount of education is going to rectify the situation. If a nation has an IQ of 70, education and nutrition is not going to raise it 30 points to 100. There is no precedent, no literature, no science, no example, no test, no study, nothing that would indicate this is remotely possible.
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posted
^Notwithstanding that you've been buried on this issue numerous times in the past, I only wonder what it is your petty quarrel has to do with the thread and its initial inquiry by the Wolofi guy? You practically came out of nowhere with this nonsense.
-------------------- mr.writer.asa@gmail.com Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote: But it is [b]the historical context you fools negate to justify racism. Mexico and third world are impoverished too because of unfair international trade policies etc, so America is simply getting what she so gave the world. Chickens are a coming home! LOL [/QB]
The irony of the 'humor' in your post is that you applaud and laugh at the prospect of the chickens coming home even though the ruination of that home is what you're rooting for. Who will pay the ultimate price when the home is destroyed?
That happens in Britain (reminds you of the gun problem in urban America, no?). Do those people looke British to you? LOL. That's the future that you fools negate out of sheer ignorance. Yay, let's get Whitey back for all his past mistreatment (nevermind the fact that Whitey has done more than any people in the past to make right the wrongs of the past. He could have kicked you out long ago but gave you freedoms instead in his own backyard). Let's outbreed him, run him off his own land, and watch him perish. When Whitey is gone, you'll have a bunch of your ilk running around stabbing each other Rwanda style (because you won't be able to manufacture guns) or the Chinks will begin a new Final Solution to elimiate all non-chinks. Thing is, they would succeed, because they're a monolithic people and it would be uglier than anything the Germans did. Just look up the horrendous crimes by the Japanese from WWII. To this day, they haven't made amends or even acknowledge their brutality, while Germany is quite the opposite.
In summary, the death of Whitey is your death too. I wouldn't celebrate it if I were you. It reminds me of the article I read where a black man in Zimbabwe was wishing Whites still ruled. He said life was better under White oppression than having to eat rats and constantly fear for his life.
Oh I know, I know. It happened in South Africa but will never happen here or in Europe with a non-White Majority. It happened in Zimbabwe but won't happend here. Everything goes to **** when Whitey is cast out - but you celebrate it because you're still in a White dominated society that affords such luxuries. When you're running around and your fellow 'brothers' are chasing you with machetes and cutting out your heart to eat it (literally), you'll think differently. But it will be too late.
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: ^Notwithstanding that you've been buried on this issue numerous times in the past, I only wonder what it is your petty quarrel has to do with the thread and its initial inquiry by the Wolofi guy? You practically came out of nowhere with this nonsense.
The concept of race is like the concept of intelligence. We know it when we see it.
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posted
Never said "their intellect is genetically based", I acknowledged they have a culture that is in-group oriented and this contributes to their high achievement today.
If your thesis is correct then they, not Africans, would have founded civilisation; they, not the Greeks, would have been responsible for Europe's first high culture. Their dominance is only recent,and within context, with rise of the west after 1492.
quote: I don't understand why it's difficult to think that populations differ in intelligence. It's the most rational conclusion one could come to based on evolution
Irony is your position is irrational history is against you, which is why you have to brush it aside as some sort of "dark age" of slavery and superstitions before rise of modernity, which simply means you are totally ignorant of history and the evolution of knowledge and science.
quote:We can't say with absolute certainty but it's not completely unknown either.
Ah yes in the absense of absolute certainty you fill the in void with racism. It's funny how you talk of witch doctors yet your "science" is not far from it. lol
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