This column will probably get Barack Obama in trouble, but that’s not my problem. I cannot tell a lie: Many Egyptians and other Arab Muslims really like him and hope that he wins the presidency.
I have had a chance to observe several U.S. elections from abroad, but it has been unusually revealing to be in Egypt as Barack Hussein Obama became the Democrats’ nominee for president of the United States.
While Obama, who was raised a Christian, is constantly assuring Americans that he is not a Muslim, Egyptians are amazed, excited and agog that America might elect a black man whose father’s family was of Muslim heritage. They don’t really understand Obama’s family tree, but what they do know is that if America — despite being attacked by Muslim militants on 9/11 — were to elect as its president some guy with the middle name “Hussein,” it would mark a sea change in America-Muslim world relations.
Every interview seems to end with the person I was interviewing asking me: “Now, can I ask you a question? Obama? Do you think they will let him win?” (It’s always “let him win” not just “win.”)
It would not be an exaggeration to say that the Democrats’ nomination of Obama as their candidate for president has done more to improve America’s image abroad — an image dented by the Iraq war, President Bush’s invocation of a post-9/11 “crusade,” Abu Ghraib, Guantánamo Bay and the xenophobic opposition to Dubai Ports World managing U.S. harbors — than the entire Bush public diplomacy effort for seven years.
Of course, Egyptians still have their grievances with America, and will in the future no matter who is president — and we’ve got a few grievances with them, too. But every once in a while, America does something so radical, so out of the ordinary — something that old, encrusted, traditional societies like those in the Middle East could simply never imagine — that it revives America’s revolutionary “brand” overseas in a way that no diplomat could have designed or planned.
I just had dinner at a Nile-side restaurant with two Egyptian officials and a businessman, and one of them quoted one of his children as asking: “Could something like this ever happen in Egypt?” And the answer from everyone at the table was, of course, “no.” It couldn’t happen anywhere in this region. Could a Copt become president of Egypt? Not a chance. Could a Shiite become the leader of Saudi Arabia? Not in a hundred years. A Bahai president of Iran? In your dreams. Here, the past always buries the future, not the other way around.
These Egyptian officials were particularly excited about Obama’s nomination because it might mean that being labeled a “pro-American” reformer is no longer an insult here, as it has been in recent years. As one U.S. diplomat put it to me: Obama’s demeanor suggests to foreigners that he would not only listen to what they have to say but might even take it into account. They anticipate that a U.S. president who spent part of his life looking at America from the outside in — as John McCain did while a P.O.W. in Vietnam — will be much more attuned to global trends.
My colleague Michael Slackman, The Times’s bureau chief in Cairo, told me about a recent encounter he had with a worker at Cairo’s famed Blue Mosque: “Gamal Abdul Halem was sitting on a green carpet. When he saw we were Americans, he said: ‘Hillary-Obama tied?’ in thick, broken English. He told me that he lived in the Nile Delta, traveling two hours one way everyday to get to work, and still he found time to keep up with the race. He didn’t have anything to say bad about Hillary but felt that Obama would be much better because he is dark-skinned, like him, and because he has Muslim heritage. ‘For me and my family and friends, we want Obama,’ he said. ‘We all like what he is saying.’ ”
Yes, all of this Obama-mania is excessive and will inevitably be punctured should he win the presidency and start making tough calls or big mistakes. For now, though, what it reveals is how much many foreigners, after all the acrimony of the Bush years, still hunger for the “idea of America” — this open, optimistic, and, indeed, revolutionary, place so radically different from their own societies.
In his history of 19th-century America, “What Hath God Wrought,” Daniel Walker Howe quotes Ralph Waldo Emerson as telling a meeting of the Mercantile Library Association in 1844 that “America is the country of the future. It is a country of beginnings, of projects, of vast designs and expectations.”
That’s the America that got swallowed by the war on terrorism. And it’s the America that many people want back. I have no idea whether Obama will win in November. Whether he does or doesn’t, though, the mere fact of his nomination has done something very important. We’ve surprised ourselves and surprised the world and, in so doing, reminded everyone that we are still a country of new beginnings.Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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Habari, how does it feel that your partly countryman is one step from becomming the U.S president?
Seems like americans despise their own "blacks" to such an extent that they will vote for a son of a kenyn cattle herder before they vote for a U.S, "Black". What's the reason behind such contempt??
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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There is a preference amongst European Americans for African people over slave ancestor African Americans. It is likely due to generations of commerce culture that is inherent amongst Africans. Striking aspect of African people is their intriguing spirit of business. Though poor in a western sense, the people are extremely innovative and diligent in terms of seeking business oppourtunities. Unfortunately colonial instigated conflicts resonate through their societies which plays heavily against the industriousness of the people. People like Yonis are a constant reminder of the distortion threaded amongst African people.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:People like Yonis are a constant reminder of the distortion threaded amongst African people.
Osirion, can you expand on that, what do you mean?
The Dynastic Race, lost tribe of Israel, Hamitization, and the proto-Caucasoid East African theories have been used to divide Africans throughout colonial history. It is interesting that European Classical writers did not have such concepts. Its a complete distortion of Jewish traditional beliefs of the origin of African people. The simple fact that as we reverse time and move backwards, if the above theories were true, we should see a more caucasoid East Africans but we don't. Indo-Europeans arrived rather late, however, Semites have been in the Delta regions of Egypt since pre-Dynastic times. Rather than being the Dynastic race, however, they were conquered and made to pay tribute. Still this did produce some trade between the Egyptian people and the people of the Levant. Far from being the rulers, more like migrant workers.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:People like Yonis are a constant reminder of the distortion threaded amongst African people.
Osirion, can you expand on that, what do you mean?
The Dynastic Race, lost tribe of Israel, Hamitization, and the proto-Caucasoid East African theories have been used to divide Africans throughout colonial history. It is interesting that European Classical writers did not have such concepts. Its a complete distortion of Jewish traditional beliefs of the origin of African people. The simple fact that as we reverse time and move backwards, if the above theories were true, we should see a more caucasoid East Africans but we don't. Indo-Europeans arrived rather late, however, Semites have been in the Delta regions of Egypt since pre-Dynastic times. Rather than being the Dynastic race, however, they were conquered and made to pay tribute. Still this did produce some trade between the Egyptian people and the people of the Levant. Far from being the rulers, more like migrant workers.
Get the fock out of here with your ashkenzi Jewish mumbo jumbo. Who the hell cares about the jewish opinion/fairytale on origin of man or african people?? And since when did anyone in eastafriica care about the hamitic race or caucasoid? As if people go around thinking about these terms when they interact with other ethnicitiies. Go and propagate this nonesense on someone who buys your BS.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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So Osirion, how does it apply to Yonis? Please ignore his anti-semitic opinion, many muslims have some inferiority complex with respect to the Jews, I don't know why, maybe it's the influence of the Arabs who feel very insecure with respect to Jews.
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Habari: So Osirion, how does it apply to Yonis? Please ignore his anti-semitic opinion, many muslims have some inferiority complex with respect to the Jews, I don't know why, maybe it's the influence of the Arabs who feel very insecure with respect to Jews.
His inability to see his relatedness to Bantu or West Africans is the same idealogy that many West Africans had such as the Tutsi and the Fulani which is colonial inspired division intentionally defined to undermine the strength of the various states. Even though he sees himself as indigenous he still sees himself as apart. Now of course when you are still tribalistic it might be hard to evolve quick enough culturally to deal with nationalistic concerns let alone Pan-African ones. West Africans had large empires made up of diverse African people that transcended these tribalistic issues until the Europeans came. I suppose Somalians never quite developed this far so perhaps it is unfair to blame Arabs for this.
From my perspective: The Fulani are a good example for Islamic Africans in terms of people that are diverse in phonetype and yet see themselves as one people. Obviously, the Axumitic/Coptic society of Ethiopia pre-colonial times is also a good example.
The Sons of Ham can wield a great deal of power when united.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:People like Yonis are a constant reminder of the distortion threaded amongst African people.
Osirion, can you expand on that, what do you mean?
The Dynastic Race, lost tribe of Israel, Hamitization, and the proto-Caucasoid East African theories have been used to divide Africans throughout colonial history. It is interesting that European Classical writers did not have such concepts. Its a complete distortion of Jewish traditional beliefs of the origin of African people. The simple fact that as we reverse time and move backwards, if the above theories were true, we should see a more caucasoid East Africans but we don't. Indo-Europeans arrived rather late, however, Semites have been in the Delta regions of Egypt since pre-Dynastic times. Rather than being the Dynastic race, however, they were conquered and made to pay tribute. Still this did produce some trade between the Egyptian people and the people of the Levant. Far from being the rulers, more like migrant workers.
Get the fock out of here with your ashkenzi Jewish mumbo jumbo. Who the hell cares about the jewish opinion/fairytale on origin of man or african people?? And since when did anyone in eastafriica care about the hamitic race or caucasoid? As if people go around thinking about these terms when they interact with other ethnicitiies. Go and propagate this nonesense on someone who buys your BS.
Its simple: Who are you most closely related to?
Yemeni or Bantu?
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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Actually based on genetics, Somalis are more related to Bantus than other people of the Horn:E3a:5%, none among Afars, Bejas, Boranas or Afars, they usually marry freely kikuyus women in Kenya, so many Somalis have substantial Bantu blood...
Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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Yes many southern somalis have maried bantu women, it's quite obvious. Somalis are not homogenous as people think, it's just a confederation of different people who speak the same language. And the 5% E3a doesn't mean that all somalis have 5% bantu blood it just means that 5% of somalis have paternal bantu lineage, but the female bantu lineage i would say is atleast 50% in southern somalia.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Habari: Actually based on genetics, Somalis are more related to Bantus than other people of the Horn:E3a:5%, none among Afars, Bejas, Boranas or Afars, they usually marry freely kikuyus women in Kenya, so many Somalis have substantial Bantu blood...
If correct, it will no doubt explain Yonis' self-hatred. lol
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:osiron wrote: many West Africans had such as the Tutsi and the Fulani which is colonial inspired division intentionally defined to undermine the strength of the various states.
Tutsi west african? Just shows how much you talk straight out of your ass,
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:osiron wrote: many West Africans had such as the Tutsi and the Fulani which is colonial inspired division intentionally defined to undermine the strength of the various states.
Tutsi west african? Just shows how much you talk straight out of your ass,
I am not going to go off on that tangent so you can avoid answering my simple question.
What say you?
Somalians: more closely related to Yemeni or Bantu?
Or lets take this to the original point.
Eurocentric double talk:
Somalians: more closely related to Southeast Europeans or Bantu?
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: There is a preference amongst European Americans for African people over slave ancestor African Americans.
It has nothing to do with that. What the hell? Stop projecting. Culturally, the man is African American. I have no idea anymore where these distinctions come from. Are you asserting that Americans will nit pick what percentage of haplotypes the man has compared to west Africans, who were generally part of the same early migration (maybe the source of it) and share the exact same ancestors in Africa? Surely you make no sense. The man is culturally African American, identifies as such and has only been to Kenya once and descends most likely from Bantu slaves in East Africa. It makes no difference seeing how far all Blacks in the new world have progressed all around since we've been here. Everybody can't claim progress.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Habari, how does it feel that your partly countryman is one step from becomming the U.S president?
Seems like americans despise their own "blacks" to such an extent that they will vote for a son of a kenyn cattle herder before they vote for a U.S, "Black". What's the reason behind such contempt??
I live here and honestly, Americans would have a much much much harder time electing a Somali Muslim with an Arabic name and exotic features, than a typical Black American Baptist Christian with American core values. Just reality. There is much more contempt for Arabs and people who like them or wanna be like them.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Osirion wrote: Somalians: more closely related to Yemeni or Bantu?
Or lets take this to the original point.
Eurocentric double talk:
Somalians: more closely related to Southeast Europeans or Bantu?
Ofcourse somalis are more related to bantus than southeast Europeans (what kind of stupid question?), but indiginous Yemenis such as soqotrans, Mahra and those of Aden region would be much closer to most somalis in northern half than bantus.
quote:Sundiata: I live here and honestly, Americans would have a much much much harder time electing a Somali Muslim with an Arabic name and exotic features, than a typical Black American Baptist Christian with American core values.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Ofcourse somalis are more related to bantus than southeast Europeans (what kind of stupid question?), but indiginous Yemenis such as soqotrans, Mahra and those of Aden region would be much closer to most somalis in northern half than bantus.
According to the same logic, Yeminis would be either intermediate or more closely related to Bantus than they are to SE Europeans as well. Not that I dispute it. The Gate of Tears study shows Yemenis to share "Sub-Saharan" (in their words) genes at a rate of 49% (maternally).
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:Sundiata: I live here and honestly, Americans would have a much much much harder time electing a Somali Muslim with an Arabic name and exotic features, than a typical Black American Baptist Christian with American core values.
Barack Hussein Obama.
I repeat, Obama is not a Somali Muslim with an Arabic name and exotic features. He's an African American Christian with American core values. He actually spends a lot of energy out here dispelling rumors that he's Muslim or has any ties to Arabs and Islam whatsoever. As a matter of fact, politicians used a trip he made to Somalia and Kenya as a apropaganda tool to distract voters away from his message and increase anxiety.
The headline for the photo was, "Obama's shocking al Qaeda link"
Obama responded by distinguishing himself from people in Somalia who are 90 + percent Sunni and associating himself with Kenya, which is 90% Christian. Being seen as a Somali or anything similar was obviously a great embarrassment for Senator Obama and hurt his campaign during the initial stages.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Sundiatat wrote: Not that I dispute it. The Gate of Tears study shows Yemenis to share "Sub-Saharan" (in their words) genes at a rate of 49% (maternally).
Well it's not a secret that bantu females have been succesfull in spreading their genes here and their unlike the males,LOl
quote:Obama responded by distinguishing himself from people in Somalia who are 90 + percent Sunni and associating himself with Kenya, which is 90% Christian. Being seen as a Somali or anything similar was obviously a great embarrassment for Senator Obama and hurt his campaign during the initial stages.
Nope, he distinguished himself from being a muslim al-qaeda Sympathizer, he never took stand against Somalis as a people because they were sunni muslims. Infact during his trip to kenya he seemed to have enjoyed himself hanging with kenyan Somalis more so than his Luo relatives. Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: I live here and honestly, Americans would have a much much much harder time electing a Somali Muslim with an Arabic name and exotic features, than a typical Black American Baptist Christian with American core values. [/QB]
My answer to that: The first Indian-American Governor and new Governor Elect of Louisiana., USA Bobby Jindal (Rep).
Background: Black Americans have the mark of slavery on their psyche that will take a few more generations to remove. This impacts their self-esteem, interdependency with others of their own community, lack of cultural identity and so on.
Impact: Difficulty in transcending issues of race without internal conflicts.
Opinion: It is easier for a Somalian to become President than a Black American. Of course, the Somalian would have to be Christian and not a Mulsim. So, much easier for a Coptic Ethiopian than a Somalian. Problem for both of them is that they are not legally capable of doing so.
The point from me was that many African people have a clear identity which provides clear cultural values. This provides for a character that is less likely to be broken by the white supremacy model found in America. The "I CAN" attitude is more prevalent.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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Of course somalis are more related to bantus than southeast Europeans (what kind of stupid question?)
Interesting, many of those people are upward of 15% E3b. Not really as stupid of a question as you make it sound. The question really was about intepretation of that fact that you seem to be unaware of.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
but indiginous Yemenis such as soqotrans, Mahra and those of Aden region would be much closer to most somalis in northern half than bantus.
Perhaps. What are you basing this on?
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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By the way Osirion, Europeans, Jewish and Arab girls kind look like men from an African perspective, Asians are more feminine and attractive with respect to East Africans... Here is an example of masculine woman from an African perspective: Posts: 461 | From: Kilimanjaro | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Well it's not a secret that bantu females have been succesfull in spreading their genes here and their unlike the males,LOl
It's also apparent from the study by reading it, that the time depth they were working with was in the millenia and that a good many of the samplees in questions were merely descendants of Africans who crossed the red sea and settled there. Subsequent admixture notwithstanding, would have likely come from Eurasians in Northern Arabia, most of which, would have been male. In other words, such has been true in Yemen for thousands of years given their proximity to Africa and isolation from Europeans. Also that clines are more useful than monotypic stereotypes.
quote:Nope, he distinguished himself from being a muslim al-qaeda Sympathizer, he never took stand against Somalis as a people because they were sunni muslims. Infact during his trip to kenya he seemed to have enjoyed himself hanging with kenyan Somalis more so than his Luo relatives.
LMAO @ Yonis looking to save face through his distortions. You clearly do not understand American politics. It isn't the fact that he's Somali, but what Somalis represent. He clearly differentiated himself from Somali ideals once confronted and questioned on his Somali attire. Context can be very revealing. As an American politician, you need to realize that he doesn't even recognize Somalia. Somalia is an Arab league country seen as a hostile nation according to the Pentagon. American policy is to not even hold communications with Somalia, and he didn't denounce or even mention al-qaeda, he denounced the assertion that he's Muslim, period (moderate or otherwise). He knows how dangerous such a perception is, which is more threatening to his campaign than "race". I don't contend that he has anything whatsoever against Islam (his dad was Muslim, hence, his name), but IMO, I do doubt seriously that he cares anything about Somalis as few American politicians do.
Read "Black Hawk Down".
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: My answer to that: The first Indian-American Governor and new Governor Elect of Louisiana., USA Bobby Jindal (Rep).
Point? Jindal is a conservative Christian with American core values. More importantly, Deval Patrick is the first African American and current governor of Massachusetts, while the current governor of New York, David Paterson, is also African American. Also, Jindal isn't Somali. In other words, your point is moot.
quote:Background: Black Americans have the mark of slavery on their psyche that will take a few more generations to remove.
As a community maybe, but individuals excel much easier and this is self-evident given a lot of the high ranking positions AAs hold over other minorities such as Latinos, NAs, Arabs and other non-white minorities.
quote:This impacts their self-esteem, interdependency with others of their own community, lack of cultural identity and so on.
The "lack of cultural identity" is the uneducated assessment of an obvious outsider. AA culture is well-defined and is how such a community kept pride and survived what was initially a nightmare. Much of American culture is west African derived actually.
quote:Impact: Difficulty in transcending issues of race without internal conflicts.
Culturally, one can argue that by generalization, though it has nothing whatsoever to do with the perception of an INDIVIDUAL running for office and how he conducts himself as an American.
quote:
Opinion: It is easier for a Somalian to become President than a Black American. Of coucomingrse, the Somalian would have to be Christian and not a Mulsim. So, much easier for a Coptic Ethiopian than a Somalian. Problem for both of them is that they are not legally capable of doing so.
Your opinion is an extremely sloppy one, I must say and is based on nothing whatsoever, neither is it a response to me, which is why you change the criteria and fantasize about a Christian Somali somehow becoming president of the United States. The same Somalis who never even won a city council position, let alone become runner up in the primary for president and actually winning states (Jesse Jackson), or becoming Supreme Court Justice (Marshal), or Governors of Mass and New York, or being 3rd highest rank in the House of Reps (Clyburn), or Secretary of State (Powell AND Rice), and the list goes on. I couldn't imagine a Somali, Muslim or otherwise, becoming any of those in the near future, let alone president of my country. Knowing what I know, that's laughable. Obama's an AA, but for sake of argument I didn't mention him since he's not an AMERICAN slave descendant.
quote:The point from me was that many African people have a clear identity which provides clear cultural values.
Sorry, Americans don't care about Somali cultural values. They detest them, by and large. What's of chief concern is your American values, which an African AMERICAN manifest. This is why I stress affirmatively that AAs incorporate much easier into the American framework. They're more nibble and adaptable here.
quote:can most naturally This provides for a character that is less likely to be broken by the white supremacy model found in America. The "I CAN" attitude is more prevalent.
White supremacy affects everyone who lives here, rather emotionally, physically, or financially. Either it gets to you, you have to work harder to achieve the same, or you don't work hard and achieve nothing. Either way, you're affected which is why in America, emphasis is placed on the American dream and the individual who understands best how to attain it. Black Americans have more variability in what it is they have and can achieve more frequently than 1rst or 2nd generation Blacks. All this talk about potentially being broken, yet no one else has overcome as many obstacles in this country, besides Native Americans maybe.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Habari: By the way Osirion, Europeans, Jewish and Arab girls kind look like men from an African perspective, Asians are more feminine and attractive with respect to East Africans... Here is an example of masculine woman from an African perspective:
Very tangential to the original discussion. It is so drastically different that I wonder if you are sane.
What is considered "Caucasian" is primarily features that are rather common to many different groups of people. Beauty is simply a matter of proportionality and symmetry. Too much of any particular feature or the lack of a particular feature is universally not attractive.
Balance is attractive and that is why intermediate groups are generally considered more attractive than extremes of any group.
Extreme White, Black, Asian, etc will never been considered the attractive stylistic model.
Universally this is attractive:
Balance
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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A few more generations and AAs will feel like full citizens but not now. And until that can truly be 100% patriotic without reserve and resentment, I would not vote for them and neither would most White America.
Colin Powell - Not elected Condolezza Rice - Not elected Supreme court Justices - Not elected
An Indian from Pinjab - Elected
"A man of color common from a country that practices a religion completely contrary to Christian beliefs".
Yes, a Somalian with conservative Christian values could become a governor and consequently may actually become president much easier than a Jesse Jackson. A Black Woman probably has a better chance than a Black Man.
I can see it now - Spike Lee for President.
Until Black Americans can transcend race - No.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by osirion: [QB] Sundiata:
A few more generations and AAs will feel like full citizens but not now.
Osirion. You're not the spokesperson for African American affairs. Me and my family are proud of our nationality and "feel" as full as anyone else when it comes to being a warm blooded American. You can make any false claim that you want, I will continue to point out how utterly false it is.
quote: And until that can truly be 100% patriotic without reserve and resentment, I would not vote for them and neither would most White America.
LOL.. Most of White America already supports an African American candidate and judging from your integrity and aptitude, I'd have to conclude that your vote isn't sought after. Same as how evangelical right-wing nut jobs aren't sought after, even if they are a key constituency. By you claiming that you wouldn't vote for a person because of his/her ethnicity only confirms that you are projecting. Most white Americans aren't like you and despise people like you. Certainly Americans tend to vote based on individual preference, not racial preference. An AA doesn't have to be resentful. Take that out of the equation, and your reasoning is once again flawed. An AA with little or no resentment is an easy bet and easy to find.
quote:Colin Powell - Not elected Condolezza Rice - Not elected Supreme court Justices - Not elected
Doesn't matter. The point is who you prefer to work with and Governors ARE elected. There's never been anything close to a Somali, Chinese, Native American, Arab governor or otherwise, in American politics. No Somali state senators, House reps, nothing. Not one vote for any 1rst or 2nd generation Blacks from Somalia or any other Afro-Arab. If he's Black and holds that position, and WAS elected, rest assured that he's or she's African American.
quote:An Indian from Pinjab - Elected
"A man of color common from a country that practices a religion completely contrary to Christian beliefs".
Doesn't matter. Jindal himself is a conservative Christian, and Deval Patrick (An African American) was elected in Massachusetts. In addition, Indians aren't ostracized like Somalis are.
quote:Yes, a Somalian with conservative Christian values could become a governor and consequently may actually become president much easier than a Jesse Jackson.
LOL, that's rubbish because republican conservatives will never vote for a minority, especially a Somali and democrats only yearn to vote for the first African American as it's the party of civil rights. Somalis have nothing to do with civil rights or conservatism, according to perception. Your conclusions are ridiculous and suspicious.
quote: A Black Woman probably has a better chance than a Black Man.
Exactly why a Black man won the nomination over a white woman.. I no longer take you seriously. Seriously.
quote:I can see it now - Spike Lee for President.
He'd have a much better shot than Yonis.
quote:Until Black Americans can transcend race - No.
Which is why you simply find an African American who reflects what MLK fought for. It's that easy. As a matter of fact, MLK is one of the many you speak of. Obama transcends race. It's not hard for an individual to have his own personality and hold such values. May be hard for such a simple mind to imagine, but usually in politics, the community votes for the individual, the individual doesn't vote for a community. In other words, your caricature of ALL AAs and the perception that this caricature follows every individual is simply stupid. You're not too bright osirion.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Sundiata wrote: I don't contend that he has anything whatsoever against Islam (his dad was Muslim, hence, his name), but IMO, I do doubt seriously that he cares anything about Somalis as few American politicians do.
Then what's exactly your point, idiot? If it's not islam, is it him standing next to a somali man? Are you trying to tell me he was more catious being portrayed as a somali sympathizer more so than a Islamic/al-qaeda sympathizer? Lol
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Habari, how does it feel that your partly countryman is one step from becomming the U.S president?
Seems like americans despise their own "blacks" to such an extent that they will vote for a son of a kenyn cattle herder before they vote for a U.S, "Black". What's the reason behind such contempt??
Yonis, sometimes you bring about your own personal attacks by making baiting posts like these, quit baiting man.
Posts: 2598 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Then what's exactly your point, idiot? If it's not islam, is it him standing next to a somali man?
I've already outlined it. That Somalia is insignificant and generally taboo in American politics. Somalis are seen as exotic. Somalia symbolizes terrorism. African Americans don't. My point is that I stand by my initial statement. Ya know, the one you responded to.
quote: Are you trying to tell me he was more catious being portrayed as a somali sympathizer more so than a Islamic/al-qaeda sympathizer?
It had nothing to do with al-qaeda. That was a headline in which he didn't even respond to given the silliness of it. The point is his denial of being an adherer to Somali culture simply because he was wearing Somali garb. The accusation on the national media circuit was that he was an East African muslim, which he vehemently denied due to the perceived shame of it. He's aware of the effects it can have on his campaign to be associated in any form with people from such rogue nations, which is why it is constantly defended against. If it wasn't an issue, it wouldn't be noteworthy and would have been ignored. This exemplifies the status of such people in America, post 9/11. Before 9/11, Somali were seen mainly as a starving African people in desperate need of aide, but too volatile to receive it. Now they are seen as partners of Osama Bin Laden.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Sundiata wrote: It had nothing to do with al-qaeda. That was a headline in which he didn't even respond to given the silliness of it. The point is his denial of being an adherer to Somali culture simply because he was wearing Somali garb. The accusation on the national media circuit was that he was an East African muslim, which he vehemently denied due to the perceived shame of it. He's aware of the effects it can have on his campaign to be associated in any form with people from such rogue nations, which is why it is constantly defended against. If it wasn't an issue, it wouldn't be noteworthy and would have been ignored. This exemplifies the status of such people in America, post 9/11.
Haha your so focking damn pathetic, you're basically trying to tell me that his campaign leaders tried to avoid associating him with Somalis/horn african muslims because of rouge states(or whatever you have in mind) more so than the real issue of the "PIC", which obviously was Islam/al qaeda that the clinton camp thought would hopefully scare voters from Obama. I cant believe you're trying to transform this into an ethnic issue, rather than what it was in reality, a competiton to the white house with islam as weapon against the adversery.
LOSER!
Maybe in 2030+ when you get over you negative racial obsessed attitude your countrymen will consider nominating you as front leader for presidency.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
^^Give it up Yonis. The Clinton campaign had nothing to do with the circulation of the photo. That's a convenient conspiracy theory. Your kind are not tolerated in this country and AAs are. It's sad, but true. The Arab/Islamic association is a real concern, coupled with the fact that your country is seen as the epitome of corruption. A decent self-identified African American has nothing to gain by not disassociating themselves from such people. It is politically expedient, especially when running for office.
btw, your responses are slow as hell. Debating you (if that's one would would like to call it) is like having a conversation through text messages. Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Whomever said Obama Sr.—Obama's father—was a cattle herder, apparently has never opened a book about his biography. The man got his degree here in US, Hawaii being notably one of the places he got his degree, and went onto become a member of the Kenyan government, before supposedly quitting over the issue of government "corruption". I suspect though, Obama capitalizes on such simplistic distortions of reality, to invoke the image of "very humble beginnings".
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Sundiata wrote: Your kind are not tolerated in this country and AAs are.
Thats why Barack Hussein Obama stands face to face against the republican presidential nominee.
While Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and the new loud mouth Jeremiah Wright are reduced to stand at the spectator seat shouting in futile as they've always done for the last 400 years, just for the sake of two minutes of spotlight and fame.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Thats why Barack [the non-Somali] Hussein Obama stands face to face against the republican presidential nominee.
Yea, only after disassociating himself from your country's long held traditions, while embracing a country (America) that he was actually born to, and a community (African American) that embraced him.
quote:While Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton
Have gone much further than any irate loons with a stolen identity can in the scheme of global politics and advancement of their regional constituents. Such people in America only see media attention upon arriving at Guantanamo Bay for suspected war crimes.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
LOL i think we have a missunderstanding somewhere along this discussion. You maybe need to seperate my posts from those of Osirion, i certainly don't think a Somali (atleast first generation) could become a U.S. president, Senate, Governor or whatever high status positions you have over there. That's not my point. My only point was that your Obama-somali pic was spread not because of his association with "rogue nations" as you put it. but because of the contending party promoting him as a islamo-facist, you get me? That was basically it. Now, other than that, i look forward to the day i see an AA as a presidential nominee: I personally don't consider Barack Obama as an AA.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Habari, how does it feel that your partly countryman is one step from becomming the U.S president?
Seems like americans despise their own "blacks" to such an extent that they will vote for a son of a kenyn cattle herder before they vote for a U.S, "Black". What's the reason behind such contempt??
Yonis, sometimes you bring about your own personal attacks by making baiting posts like these, quit baiting man.
Posts: 412 | From: protectress of Lower Egypt | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: LOL i think we have a missunderstanding somewhere along this discussion. You maybe need to seperate my posts from those of Osirion, i certainly don't think a Somali (atleast first generation) could become a U.S. president, Senate, Governor or whatever high status positions you have over there. That's not my point. My only point was that your Obama-somali pic was spread not because of his association with "rogue nations" as you put it. but because of the contending party promoting him as a islamo-facist, you get me? That was basically it. Now, other than that, i look forward to the day i see an AA as a presidential nominee: I personally don't consider Barack Obama as an AA.
Obama considers himself an AA so whatever you don't consider him is irrelevant.You don't even consider yourself black, yet get mad when people here tell you that you are black so you make your own statements irrelevant by virtue of your hypocrisy, sissy.
Posts: 2598 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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The average Black man does have something in common with Obama - single Mothers abandoned by a Black man.
The black side of Obama's family doesn't quite get credit for dispensing cultural values to him and therefore we can assume the largest part of his character shaping, when it counted, actually came from very decent White Americans that accepted him when his own people abandoned him.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: LOL i think we have a missunderstanding somewhere along this discussion. You maybe need to seperate my posts from those of Osirion, i certainly don't think a Somali (atleast first generation) could become a U.S. president, Senate, Governor or whatever high status positions you have over there.
;p
Take it a step further. A Somalian than is 1/2 White and is brought up by an White American woman.
We have = Obama
The most relevant part is that he was brought up by a White American woman. The fact that Obama is 1/2 White -vs- simply being a Somalian is not relevant to most White Americans. The fact that he has engrained White heritage, background and values (Christian) is far more relevant. It also helps that he is balanced in appearance and demeanor. I think an actual Somalian so brought up would do better minus some of the issues Obama has run into - Rev Wright, bittergate, etc.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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A Black Woman probably has a better chance than a Black Man. -------------------------------------------------
quote: Sundiata wrote:
Exactly why a Black man won the nomination over a white woman.. I no longer take you seriously. Seriously.
Remember the context: Black Americans with Black American heritage!
Keep things in context.
Condollezza Rice has a far better chance than any other African American (with actual AA heritage) in the political scene today.
BTW, I am a Republican conservative and I would vote for a minority, hell, I am a minority - remember I am Black in America. I have a Black grandfather. Though now I can claim mixed heritage. By the way, an Indian from Punjab is certainly a minority in Lousianna. Sometimee Sundiate!
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
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posted
OBAMA WILL WIN ELECTION IN NOVEMBER. IM OBAMA FOLLOWER I THINK HE WILL MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR THE WORLD. I STAND PROUD AS US CITIZEN TO OBAMA AS MY PRESIDENT TY
-------------------- Brenda Posts: 73 | From: United States | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Obama was persuaded to run for the U.S. presidency because of 2 things: 1) the U.S. needs to clean up its image overseas and the man with the tanned man with the big open smile is the man for the job. Already the positive reactions are there. 2) America and the West are very concerned about the heavy moves that China is making in Africa. Sudan and Darfur are in the news constantly because China is there backing Bashir. China is also backing Mugabe, hence the constant screaming at Mugabe.
The West cannot touch or control China or Russia. India is also a bit too big to push around. So Africa with its piddling and weak, little statelets but full of gold, petroleum, diamonds, uranium, cobalt, bauxite is still there for the taking.
BHO with his big smile and the Luo name is the man for the job to talk nicely with Africa. Soon to follow is the African High Command and BHO will push that too. Sirleaf Johnson--the Americo-Liberian--is the only one to buy that programme, so maybe BHO could just sway the others. Send Michelle to have tea with Kibaki's and Zuma's wives, and there you have it.
One thing to note about those Europeans--their brains are always ticking. Just like when those coastal lanzados[Afro-Portugese] on Africa's West coast were sent inland by the Portugese then the Spanaiards, then the British, then the French, then the Dutch, then the Danes, then the Swedes, etc. to soften up the African kings for the big economic enterprise: the Atlantic trade in African labour. Big,big money and profits were involved. Now it's gold pushing through the roof in terms of price, petroleum at $130 a barrel, and bauxite to build all those planes.
BHO might just pull it off.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Obama was persuaded to run for the U.S. presidency because of 2 things: 1) the U.S. needs to clean up its image overseas and the man with the tanned man with the big open smile is the man for the job. Already the positive reactions are there. 2) America and the West are very concerned about the heavy moves that China is making in Africa. Sudan and Darfur are in the news constantly because China is there backing Bashir. China is also backing Mugabe, hence the constant screaming at Mugabe.
The West cannot touch or control China or Russia. India is also a bit too big to push around. So Africa with its piddling and weak, little statelets but full of gold, petroleum, diamonds, uranium, cobalt, bauxite is still there for the taking.
BHO with his big smile and the Luo name is the man for the job to talk nicely with Africa. Soon to follow is the African High Command and BHO will push that too. Sirleaf Johnson--the Americo-Liberian--is the only one to buy that programme, so maybe BHO could just sway the others. Send Michelle to have tea with Kibaki's and Zuma's wives, and there you have it.
One thing to note about those Europeans--their brains are always ticking. Just like when those coastal lanzados[Afro-Portugese] on Africa's West coast were sent inland by the Portugese then the Spanaiards, then the British, then the French, then the Dutch, then the Danes, then the Swedes, etc. to soften up the African kings for the big economic enterprise: the Atlantic trade in African labour. Big,big money and profits were involved. Now it's gold pushing through the roof in terms of price, petroleum at $130 a barrel, and bauxite to build all those planes.
A few more generations and AAs will feel like full citizens but not now. And until that can truly be 100% patriotic without reserve and resentment, I would not vote for them and neither would most White America...
Until Black Americans can transcend race - No.
Apparently, all the misguided anti-"White man", anti-"Arab" and anti-"Jewish" venom that goes on in sites like this and elsewhere by insecure individuals, with a beaten-down slave mentality, doesn't help either towards placating any "White American's" concern about voting for AAs, when they browse through sites like this. This site is noticeably attracting several individuals, who are obviously intent on turning it into another stormfront for beatdown self-proclaimed negroes...and then, they wonder why people like Osirion hold reservations about voting for AAs who trace their ancestry back to slavery.
I don't agree that this is what it should come down to, a person's so-called "race" being an obstacle in voting for him/her, and frankly, I think it is self-defeating to the interests of the masses, but I can certainly see why some "Whites" still hold concerns.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Osirion wrote: Somalians: more closely related to Yemeni or Bantu?
Or lets take this to the original point.
Eurocentric double talk:
Somalians: more closely related to Southeast Europeans or Bantu?
Ofcourse somalis are more related to bantus than southeast Europeans (what kind of stupid question?), but indiginous Yemenis such as soqotrans, Mahra and those of Aden region would be much closer to most somalis in northern half than bantus.
^^^LOL!!! I am not even going to comment on why this post is funny
Who are these people in the pics and please I hope you are not insinuating that these are Africans?
Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
If you took the time to read the post you're quoting then you'll notice that they are not labeled as Africans but Yemenis.
Btw there are millions of Africans who look like that, Wolof features are not the patented look of Africa.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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A few more generations and AAs will feel like full citizens but not now. And until that can truly be 100% patriotic without reserve and resentment, I would not vote for them and neither would most White America...
Until Black Americans can transcend race - No.
Apparently, all the misguided anti-"White man", anti-"Arab" and anti-"Jewish" venom that goes on in sites like this and elsewhere by insecure individuals, with a beaten-down slave mentality, doesn't help either towards placating any "White American's" concern about voting for AAs, when they browse through sites like this. This site is noticeably attracting several individuals, who are obviously intent on turning it into another stormfront for beatdown self-proclaimed negroes...and then, they wonder why people like Osirion hold reservations about voting for AAs who trace their ancestry back to slavery.
I don't agree that this is what it should come down to, a person's so-called "race" being an obstacle in voting for him/her, and frankly, I think it is self-defeating to the interests of the masses, but I can certainly see why some "Whites" still hold concerns.
^^^Are you mulatto or of mixed ancestry by any chance? I take it you live in Europe no?
Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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